View Full Version : 2002-2004 WSG Reports
Re sending parcels from the US to BA, fellas, I urge you to use the services in the US of Ocasa, International if you need overnight delivery from the US to BA. They're in the major cities and are an Argentinian shipping company that ships parcels and letters and they have a wide variety of services including overnight delivery, standard delivery, etc. The big difference is that Ocasa can truly deliver things to you next day in BA since they've got the inside track on the Argentinian customs agency and can and regularly do get things through customs a lot faster than UPS, Fedex, Airborne, DHL, etc, etc. due to their huge influence in Argentina.
If you want to mail letters to the US too, don't hesitate to stop at any of the Oca storefronts you see all around BA, you can spot the stores by the purple OCA logotype and their purple "buzones" or mailboxes. Remember that Correo Argentino is only the former national post office of Argentina and now postal services in Argentina are privatized so that there are a lot of choices and competition for mailing postcards, parcels and letters.
Andres,
Thanks for that informative post on maids. I'll really need to think about hiring her on salary. It probably doesn't make sense based on what you posted. Still, it still might be cheaper than paying by the hour if my apartment business grows as I anticipate it to. I would never even think about having sex with a maid or any of my other employees. Just a bad idea and not necessary with all of the girls available in Buenos Aires.
Dodger Bulldog is absolutely correct. I used to mail things to Argentina all the time and it took about a week. Global Priority mail took longer but I guess it's because a package with electronics was sent. I was worried I might not get it and maybe what came isn't even the telephones. I guess it would have been cheaper to just receive it with Federal Express with the hassles of maybe not getting the package and the import taxes.
I guess I'll find out tomorrow if both phones made it ok. I'm hoping the employees there decide not to help themselves to one of the phones. We'll see.
As far as DownBA's company. I've never heard of them but willing to give them a shot. When my friend mailed the Fed-Ex package it was here in only 2 days.
Question for Saint as well as others:
Looking back, do you think it was a good idea to ship and brought down so much electrical and electronic stuff? Considering the voltage issues as well. I don't know the local costs of basic things like phones, coffee makers, electric kettles, etc.
Years ago when I moved from overseas, I shipped everything I had back with me, and bought several transformers to deal with the voltage. Some appliances were dual voltage however.
Over time, I replaced them all with newer stuff bought locally, but most things are relatively inexpensive in the US. I think it would have been better to sell most of them for cheap before the move and save the hassles. I am sure I didn't save any money by shipping them back with me.
Postal mail
As for letters, my experience is that Correo Argentino works very fine. I had a beautiful "love story" with a cherished Federal American institution related to taxation, and the Correo Argentino worked fine 100% of the time (I'm talking about 8-10 letters sent and a similar number received). The only caution you have to take is to ask for certified mail ("certificada"). Plain mail to the Americas costs ar$4 for the first 20 grams, and certified mail costs ar$10.25 for the first 20 grams and roughly ar$25 for the first 500 grams, also within the Americas.
As for packages, I wouldn't use Correo Argentino. EVERY package that I sent from the US to Argentina using the US Postal Service from 2000 to 2003 didn't arrive to BA. The only alternatives that worked well were FedEx and UPS (US$40-50 per document package). Sending packages from Argentina to the US by FedEx starts from ar$85, but you need to have an account for that (FedEx Argentina asks for DNI, CUIT number and other hassles). Ask at the FedEx office of 25 de Mayo St. and Corrientes Ave.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Avoid Postal Mail!!!
I just got back from waiting in line 1 hour 43 minutes at the Post Office waiting for my package. What a cluster*?#k! Ok. Here is the deal. I bought two GSM high quality cellphones that I needed for my apartment business. I had my friend send them to me. He had two options. He could have sent them Fed Ex for about $140 US or Priority Mail for $27.60. The Fed Ex I would have received in 2-3 days. The US mail took 2 weeks.
You go down to the Post office and you go to the front office and you get a number and wait about 10 minutes in line then show them your passport and give them the card you got in the mail. Then you go into the large waiting room. I went early at about 10:15 AM as I figured there wouldn't be a big line. WRONG! There were over 100 people waiting in line. The system is really shitty too how they do it there. Everyone is sitting around and many standing too since there aren't enough seats. There is this loudspeaker that they call numbers on. The speaker went in and out so it was hard to hear sometimes. Also, the number on the card is a 6 (SIX) digit number that the guy on the speaker ONLY calls one time and very very quickly. If your Spanish isn't good than you can forget about hearing the number.
I was sitting next to a German girl and I noticed she didn't understand Spanish too well and I saw her number on her ticket and told her they just called it. She wouldn't have known. It's not like they call 1,2,3,4,5, 6. If you're number is 503575 they will blurt out in rapid fire Spanish "cincuenta-tres-quinientos setenta y cinco" NOT cinco-zero-tres-cinco-siete-cinco. (or some other combination of numbers...the guy rotated how he called them out). So if your Spanish isn't that good than go with someone that has decent Spanish.
I was so tempted to just leave. I HATE waiting in lines. I waited, waited, waited. Finally they call my number. So you go behind this door and collect your package. They open up your package and inspect it. He asks me how much I think it's worth. These are $150 US phones. I had two of them. I told him $50 US each. He told me they cost more than that here and said he was assessing them at $100 US each which is accurate. These guys aren't clueless like some countries. I'm sure they see tons of merchandise everyday so they know the relative values.
So then he gives you papers-in triplicate-you need to take to the cashier to pay the taxes and then come back to collect your merchandise. I had to pay 224 pesos for both phones. About $75. If I had to do it over again I would have sent it Fed Ex even though it's a little more because you avoid the hassles of waiting in line. Oh yeah, when you leave you must pay another 5 pesos to leave with your package.
Like I said...avoid the post office and use overnight delivery services unless you have a lot of time to kill. What a waste of the morning.
Vegas,
As far as selling things and buying things new here that is an option. My problem is I already had so much stuff and I wasn't about to sell it at a huge loss and pay more for it here. I already gave away and sold so much stuff. I didn't bring things down like coffee pots, etc. I just brought office type equipment I already had. It is a pain dealing with power converters/transformers/etc. though so keep that in mind.
If you don't have alot of stuff, just buy it down here. If you already have a lot of stuff bring it down. Pretty simple. Keep in mind I had a student visa which made the process easier coming through customs. They did ask me why I had so many electronics and other stuff. I just told them I was studying here for 2 years. Nothing was new in the box so there was nothing really they could say. If you don't have any type of longer term visa and only coming in as a tourist I'm sure they will hit you up for import taxes if you are bringing a ton of stuff. That's why it's worth it to get a student visa. It's a big hassle and a mountain of paperwork and waiting in lines but it was a good move on my part.
Argentina votes Kerry
From time to time I'll post things that give you the general sense of the mood of Argentina. They may not be anything critical but they are things that help you understand the mindset and the way things are flowing here in Buenos Aires.
"Seven out of ten Argentines want Senator John Kerry to win the November 2 election in the USA, a poll said yesterday. The poll said that 72% of Argentines would like Kerry to beat incumbent President George W. Bush and become the next president because 'it will be better for world peace.'
Asked which result would benefit Argentina's efforts to restructure it's 100-billion dollar debt in default, 41% named Kerry and only 7% named Bush.
The poll, however, revealed that people pick Kerry because they oppose Bush rather than because they like the Democrat candidate."
I thought it was interesting that the people here in Argentina want Kerry to win for much of the same reasons Americans do. Not so much because they like Kerry but because they hate Bush. I am asked all the time when people find out I'm American what I think of Bush. People here hate the guy. Really everyone around the world in the places I've been to has disgust for him. Not that it matters so much. The USA is the most powerful nation in the world and always will be. Really, one of the greatest things about living here is not having to hear about the ugly campaign that is going on in the USA. I never talk politics here and I hate when other Americans I meet here in BA do. I couldn't care less now but thought it was interesting so I posted this.
HappyGoLucky
09-21-04, 22:42
Saint,
Last time I was in B.A., many of the educated Portenos I talked with compared Bush to Menem. I guess it's no surprise that Menem and the Bush family are good friends...
Ferolga777
09-22-04, 00:17
Saint
Thank you for the comment on the way Argentinos view Bush.
Too bad only Americans get to vote.
Cheerio,
Ferolga
Ferolga777 & HappyGoLucky ,
What makes you think Argentinians know whats best for the U.S ?
As matter of fact, who really gives a flying shit what they think of us .
This is a country with very little balls of there own. The bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Buenos Aires, was the deadliest terrorist attack in that country until 1994.The courts acquitted 22 suspects in the attack that killed 85 people. No one has been brought to justice for the bombing that injured 300 other people, mostly locals . They turned a blinds eye to terror and a possible free pass to Iran.
If you have an example on how our Latin friend is helping us please explain. I am always up for a new lesson in life. Andre, you probably have examples but I prefer to hear from Americans who for the most part speak out of there ass. (Including myself on more then a few occasions )
Starfe
p.s.: the cheap pussy-food and hotels do not count
I'm not sure if anyone ever posted this before but try to avoid the Microcentro area around the Tribunales on Wednesdays. The piqueteros (picketers) come into town most Wednesdays and have a protest. It blocks up traffic and the whole area is a mess. It's quicker just to walk since you'll be stuck in a taxi for a while. Since people know this, more people are walking in the streets which makes it very crowded on some sidewalks.
My office is one block from the Tribunales (Tucuman and Uruguay) and Wednesdays can be a pain.
Starfe:
I don't think that Argentinians care much about what is convenient to the US. People here hate Bush because his attitude and speeches copies almost verbatim those of the military dictatorship of the bloody 70s: Fuzzy, undefined enemies who serve as the perfect excuse to set an agenda that otherwise wouldn't be allowed.
As for the AMIA bombing, it's curious to notice that the flawed investigation follows the same patterns as the 9/11 investigation: No clear suspects (some say Iranians and Syrians, who hate each other, in one case; some say Saddam and Al-Qaeda, who hate each other, in the other case), opportunity to go over civil rights (sending people to jail based on illegal evidence, in one case; creating a nightmarish legal status in Guantanamo, in the other case) and serious suspictions that the Presidents were involved at some dregree (Menem and its links to the Syrian community, in one case; businesses between Bush and Bin Laden families, in the other case).
You should really "give a sh*t" of what other people think about your conutry. American corporations lost a lot of money in diminishing exports to Muslim countries after the last invasion to Irak, due to loss of image of the US in that region of the World.
Andres
Starfe et al,
Hating America has been a popular hobby all over the world for a long time. It is a love-hate relationship, P.J. O´Rourke summed it up best in "Give war a chance."
What I have found is that they (almost everyone) loves Americans, but hates "America."
I would not worry too much about it.
Cheers,
Sporadic
Do very many others in Argentina find that way of thinking to be perfectly sane? I prefer to avoid political discussions whenever I am in someone else’s country, but if I were there, is it likely that I would have to hear that kind of depraved sickness often?
It would be just a little difficult to take after a member of my family, along with so many others, was incinerated by a very well defined self identified enemy quite openly proud to “kill the infidel” for her crime of showing up for work on time. I try to respect local customs and give as much deference as I can to the unique belief systems of the people I am visiting, but the small box of ashes I have yet to bury will remain somewhat more significant to most of us than what brand of cola someone chooses to buy, and decisions among ourselves and toward interactions with others will reflect those priorities.
A movie, THE TAKE, recently opened at Film Forum, in New York. Once a model for global capitalism, Argentina becomes a poster child for the perils of run-amok deregulation and debt. By 2001, the nation is bankrupt, the government is in free-fall, millions are without work. It is an eye-opening, possibility-widening documentary in which factory workers in Argentina respond to economic blight by retrieving control of their abandoned factories in the suburbs of Buenos Aires. It is Directed and written by Avi Lewis and Naomi Klein, two famous Canadian journalists.
I realised sometimes these movies come to USA much later after their theatrical release in the home country. If this one is still playing in BA, give it a shot.
Bandy
This is the purpose of these various message boards. To post useful information and our own personal opinions. I am one to strongly believe that it's good that we all have different opinions. I think as long as people are posting intelligent posts, that's the most important thing.
Lately I am meeting several people that struggled hard to get a visa, or in some cases residency status to the USA and now they decided to move back to Buenos Aires. They are aware that the USA is a wonderful country filled with wonderful people but they simply love and miss Buenos Aires.
Often times in the USA I find it's difficult to really enjoy the simple things in life. IMHO, it's easier to appreciate them here. I really love this city. I am making a lot of contacts here everyday in the business community which should prove to be invaluable. I hope to live here for many, many years to come. I talked to a woman today that deals with the government here and she said she doesn't think I'll have a difficult time getting a residency status here after my student visa runs out. She is going to hook me up with some people she knows.
HappyGoLucky
09-22-04, 23:03
"People here hate Bush because his attitude and speeches copies almost verbatim those of the military dictatorship of the bloody 70s: Fuzzy, undefined enemies who serve as the perfect excuse to set an agenda that otherwise wouldn't be allowed."
I agree with Andres, in fact I think Andres understands the situation better than most estadounidenses, about half of whom are voting for Bush.
As a sidenote, I remember during the last Presidential election in Argentina, my Spanish teacher in B.A. (who loved to imbibe with me on Malbec while preaching politics in some funky Palermo dive until the wee hours) remarked, "HGL, did you know that we have better medical care here than you do in the EEUU?"
"Really," I said, "how's THAT?"
"Because we have dead people voting here for Menem," she said. "Isn't that a miracle?"
-HGL
Ferolga777
09-23-04, 01:42
Starfe says
"As matter of fact, who really gives a flying shit what they think of us ."
Thus I end addressing you.
Ferolga
Andres,
Lets put it in simpler terms. Its easier to acquit then convict. They know who the perps are and they have know for many years. But lets put it another way, why convict if the judge just might get his ass blown off for making the RIGHT and legal decision. This is why I feel I can say this with very little hesitancy , some in Argentina have no balls. So why should I give a shit whether they care for America or not? Argentina would not raise a finger to help us in a time of need.
I have to see how they voted regarding the iraqi war in the U.N.. Oh maybe they would send over a football team for a USO show, that would be kind of fun.
Just a thought.
Have a pleasant day,
Starfe
Starfe:
The fake trial revolving the AMIA case had many factors beyond security issues for the judges, factors that strongly conditioned the investigation itself.
1) Some people around Menem (his personal physician Dr. Tfeli was mentioned) helped to arrange the first bombing (the one of the Israel Embassy in 1992), so they weren't interested in solving the cases. Also these people, who controlled the SIDE (the local CIA) destroyed the most evidence they could. Thus, the judge couldn't face a serious investigation because of lack of support from the government and lack of reliable evidence, even if he wanted.
2) Many powerful characters in this event -characters who are notoriously "brave"- played a confusing role. I'm talking about the Israel government and their representation in Argentina. Besides some hard speeches, they were never interested in solving the case through a fast and efficient investigation. They never threatened to break diplomatic relationships, neither did they take other punitory measures. Why? Because since 1990, Israelian companies tripled exports to Argentina due to the parity 1-1 to the Dollar. They didn't want to jeopadize their businesses. That sent mixed signals about the real needs of finding out the truth.
3) The local Jewish community also reacted giving mixed signals. The DAIA president by then (DAIA gathers all Argentine Jewish communities, being AMIA the most important one), called Beraja, owned Banco Mayo, who went into bankrupcy and needed the favors of the Central Bank. Beraja never pushed hard to solve the case (imagine... the President of the Jewish Community Council in Argentina not pushing hard!). This lukewarm attitude paid off for him in the short term: He got $320 million to cover his financial gaps. Beraja is currently in jail because he stole that money (by means of self loans) instead of giving back the deposits.
This kind of issues happen everywhere. Didn't the US Congress played a very soft role when summoning Oliver North during the Irangate scandal, back in the 80s? Didn't the French play a soft hand in the ELF-Aquitaine scandal, a scandal that could have sent to prison many executives from the most important French oil company?
When a given society isn't adamant in solving some key criminal cases, such as the AMIA bombing, courts have little room to play a serious role.
Argentina wouldn't certainly "help" the US, but Argentina buys more than it sells to the US (consistently decade after decade) contributing to solve the US trade deficit. When the US takes alienating measures that piss off Argentine companies, the US losses markets and hurts itself.
For instance, 2 months ago, an Argentine exporting company sold several tons of lemons to Canada. This shipment happened to stop at NJ. The FBI had received an anonimous note saying that these lemons had "anthrax ot other bacteriologial weapon" (a real menace or a revenge from a unpleased competitor?). The FBI reacted by freezing the lemons and taking a LONG time to test them. Result? The shipment got spoiled, and the Argentine embassy is still seeking compensation from the US Federal government for the incident. I bet that next time this Argentine company will seek a shiping company not touching American port, which won't collect debarkment fees. THAT'S why America losses when its image gets severed abroad.
Regarding the UN vote, Argentina didn't vote then because it didn't had a seat at the Security Council by then, but the aim in Latin America was at voting against it. Chile and Mexico, the Latin-American seat holders by then, voted against a new resolution authosizing the invation, even with Chile having just signed the Free-trade agreement with the US and Mexico being part of the NAFTA.
Andres
Andres,
I stand corrected. You answered many of my questions.
Thanks
OttoGraham
09-23-04, 12:12
I understand that - occasionally - there might be an off-hand discussion of political issues on WSG. I've done a small bit myself. When discussing the atmosphere or situation in different countries, it is almost inevitable that some discussion of political stability will happen.
When it advances beyond the issues of immediate interests to mongers, the discussions will inevitably find some people on one side of the argument, some on the other. We are an eclectic group - it's not possible for us to agree on political subjects any more than we can agree as a group whether blondes or brunettes are better. Or big boobs or small.
Might I suggest we reduce the political discussion here back to the bare minimum? I say this without taking any sides in the recent discussion here. Otherwise, we have too much potential for disagreements about things which have nothing to do with drilling chicas.
-Uncle Otto
I agree with Otto. I didn't post that to start a debate for the pro/against Bush people. I just wanted to give some insight into what's going on here. Even though both sides posted informative posts I think politics is an issue people can easily fill 100+ pages just on politics. I won't post anything else political from now on.
______________________________
To change the subject. For those of you buying property, remember that you need to switch the phone and electricity/gas into your name. It's wise to do this ahead of time before your final closing (escritura). After you sign the "boleto" you can go ahead and start the transfer process so everything is complete by the time you move in.
To change the electricity you must send a fax with the information below to this number: 4383 0172 (EDESUR)
* Note asking for an ownership change (cambio de titularidad) basically saying the power is for residential use (uso residencial) and include the customer number which the current owner can give you. Remember it must all be in Spanish.
* Copy of the Boleto
* Copy of the 1st and 2nd pages of your passport.
To change the telephone service into your name the owner of the current apartment will assist you. Something interesting here is it appears that the number for any given property stays with that property. You will know your phone number when you sign the "boleto". The owner helps you facilitate the transfer in your name because they don't want future bills in their name.
The owner will call the phone company and get a "Trámite #" from them.
To complete the telephone ownership change, you have to fax a copy of the first two pages of your passport to: 0 800 777 0329. There are voice prompts where you have to punch in 1 I think. If you don't speak Spanish have someone that does do it for you. You have to include the Trámite # and the telephone number associated with the change.
I don't know Otto, I kind of like this stuff. Starfe's bold stance and Andres detailed informative response made me think about an issue I barely remembered and never truly bothered to learn about. We can always head over to Madahos anytime but sometimes it's nice to sit back at La Biela and maturely ponder or debate some real issues in life. I think that is what has set the Argentina section head and shoulders above the rest of the forum.
Learn spanish the fast way,
For those interested in learning spanish you might want to try this new method. Its worked wonder for me.
Good Luck
http://www.fisher-price.com/us/dora/products/thumbnail.asp?cat=demo&catcode=demo
Starfe
HappyGoLucky
09-23-04, 15:43
Regarding,
"We can always head over to Madahos anytime but sometimes it's nice to sit back at La Biela and maturely ponder or debate some real issues in life. I think that is what has set the Argentina section head and shoulders above the rest of the forum."
Without a doubt!
It's all good brothers.
If you don't like a post, skip it.
I've become a much better speed reader as a direct result of this forum.
And, it's nice to be in the company of some really fine intellects.
-HGL
Saint:
BA is divided in EDESUR and EDENOR respect to electricity, and in Telefonica and Telecom mainly for phone service. Thus, the faxes and numbers you should call depend on what company provides these services.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Dodger Bulldog
09-24-04, 01:14
I also enjoy the commentary and insight. Thank you Andres, Bandy, and the others willing to contribute your thoughts.
Those who don't want to bother with it can always scroll up.
DB
Thanks Andres. I didn´t know that about the phone and electricity companies. I´m still learning, as I posted several times. Still, the procedures should be about the same so hopefully it helps give you an idea what you need to do.
I´m in Montevideo this weekend and here now as I type this. The city is really slow paced. It is a nice city but boring compared to Buenos Aires. It´s amazing how different a city can be only being 3 hours by ferry from BA. I´ll post a detailed report on Montevideo when I get back. Interesting city but I won´t be rushing back here anytime soon.
More later.
Saint:
Don't miss tomorrow the public fair of Tristan Narvaja St! This is a one-of-a-kind fair, one that I didn't see in any other South American country yet.
It's not for buying many things (in fact, you will find it a lame, cheap flea-market) but the characters revolving the fair (musicians, beggers, etc.) worth the visit for a couple of hours. The fair occupies several blocks of Tristan Narvaja St. (I think it is a street intersecting 18 de Julio Ave.)
Many old Argentinians describe Montevideo as a BA frozen at the 1940s: Lots of two-story houses, cobblestone streets, old cars. That can give you an idea of the scenarios appearing in the books of Jorge Luis Borges and Roberto Arlt (two of our best writers).
Hope this helps,
Andres
I'm just back from my trip and thought I'd post some thoughts from my trip. I hope it helps some of you.
_______________________
Well, I can now add another country that I’ve visited in South America. I’m back from Montevideo, Uruguay and I have to say it’s a very tranquil city. The people are very laid back there. If you are looking for a mellow environment, than you need to go to Montevideo. I type very quickly and I’m going to post some of my thoughts from my brief trip there. It contains a lot of non-chica information so if you are only looking for information on girls, please skip this report or fast forward to the last paragraph.
Although I was just there a quick weekend, I usually really take the time to explore a new city and see all there is to see. It was no different in this case. I explored just about every part of the city. Montevideo is a relatively small city. The city itself only has about 1.5 million people and Uruguay as a country only has about 3 million people. It is located across from Buenos Aires separated by the Rio de la Plata. Many people often mistake the River for an ocean since it is so big.
The unit of currency there is the Uruguayan peso (designated NP$, $U, or simply. Uruguayan pesos are available in $10; $20; $50; $100; $200; $500; $1,000; and $5,000 bills. The exchange rate at the casa de cambio was about 27 pesos to US$1. It is helpful to note that the Uruguayan peso was devalued in 2002.
Montevideo is considerably cheaper than Buenos Aires. If you are retired looking for a place to spend your retirement than Montevideo could be a good choice. You are only a 3 hour ferry ride to Buenos Aires. The city is relaxed and quite charming. There is a strong contrast from the old city and the new city. The older part of the city kind of reminded me of parts of Havana. Many of the buildings are uninhabited and look like they are ready to crumble to the ground. They are still very beautiful and make you think to yourself, “if only someone would take the time and investment to rebuild the area it would be very prosperous”.
Uruguay is the 2nd smallest country in South America. The living standard there seemed high. I was told by several people that Uruguayans were known for being “cheap” or not wanting to spend money. I didn’t notice that from my trip other than the fact that most things there seemed to be cheaper than other places in South America that I’ve visited (Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Peru, Colombia). They have the reputation for the best medical care system in South America, which also makes it an appealing place if you’re thinking of retirement. They have a high literacy rate and the middle class here seems much larger than the other countries I’ve visited in SA.
Their elections are on October 3rd and something I found quite fascinating is the youth are really involved in politics there. On Saturday there were many people on the Rambla (beachfront area). They were holding political rallies and young kids made up most of the crowds there. They were waving flags, handing out flyers and cheering for their respective politician. It was fascinating to see the youth so involved in the political process. It told me a lot about the country from seeing that this weekend. Late at night on Friday I also witnessed younger kids pasting flyers on building walls and spray painting slogans for their party.
I stayed at the NH Columbia Hotel located in the old town area. It was very nice and a true 4 star hotel (American rating system). The staff was very friendly and the place was clean. They had free internet access available in their lobby. The room I stayed in had a nice view of the River and the breakfast buffet was good. I can recommend this hotel. There isn’t much around the hotel since it’s in the old town (Ciudad Vieja) but it’s a quick walk to the town center. The Ciudad Vieja was built on a small peninsula and is very interesting. I hope someone decides to reinvest in that area in the future. It could be a good investment.
The city as I mentioned is very relaxed. Almost too relaxed. I found the city almost void of any real life compared to Buenos Aires. It can be a good romantic place to go with someone special. I wasn’t interested in my friend that I went with so it wasn’t particularly romantic. Most of the action is focused in the Plaza Independencia and the Rambla (riverfront area). Those were the only two areas that were alive and full of life. I liked the Rambla area. It was always full of people, especially younger kids and teenagers. Everyone comes here on the weekends and I’m told in the summer it’s packed. There is a stretch of the Rambla that reminded me of Copacabana in Rio de Janiero since it curves around like on Avenida Atlantica.
Something else very interesting is that many, many, many people are walking around with big thermoses and “mate cups”. For those of you that don’t know what Mate is, it’s like a kind of tea. I kept laughing because I never saw anything like it in all my travels around the world. In Argentina people do drink mate but it’s usually at home. The Rambla was filled with kids, teenagers, youth and senior citizens all walking around with those thermoses you’d see a blue collar worker carrying around. I kept joking with my friend that it was actually cool because if you saw a hot girl you could use the line, “Puedo probar tu mate?” (can I try some of your mate).
The Plaza Independencia has an antique fair every Saturday and it’s quite interesting. If you are an antique lover you will find it very interesting as they had many more items than the San Telmo fair in Buenos Aires on Sundays. I don’t like antiques so most of it seemed like junk to me but it was still interesting to see. If you like old fashioned cameras they had many. Most were like 300 pesos ($11 US) so it seemed like a good deal. They had a lot of other junk. One English man was going to buy this old Rolex and I took a look at it. I just laughed once I took a good look at it. It was a good knock off but it was clear it wasn’t real. Genuine Rolexes don’t “tick” with the second hand. It sweeps. The man asked me if it was real and I told him no. The vendedor (seller) wasn’t too happy with me and gave me a sour face. Hey, I couldn’t lie! Speaking of time. Montevideo is one hour ahead of BA time.
The food is very good there and there are plenty of good restaurants. My favorites were La Corte in the Plaza Independencia and Che Montevideo located on the Ramba.
I found the girls of Uruguay to be pretty but kind of in a reserved way. The girls there are shy compared to the girls in BA. I did see many beautiful girls in the stores, on the Rambla and working in the restaurants. Something that was a turn on for me is that I didn’t notice many girls smoking in Uruguay compared to Buenos Aires. Another sign to me that the health care system is doing a good job of letting them know the dangers of smoking. Not many people smoke here compared to other Latin American countries I’ve been to. Even in the taxis, all had signs that said, “Please no smoking”. I loved it as a non-smoker!
Taxis are not particularly a good deal. In fact, they could be expensive depending on where you are going. The taxis operate like in Cali, Colombia. The meters don’t have a running tab with the dollar amount due. There is a numeral system that starts at 1 and goes to whatever your destination runs up to. They have a chart in the taxi that shows the amount due. My hotel was located in the Cuidad Vieja so most rides to some restaurants on the Rambla were about 160 pesos (almost $6 US or 18 ARG peseos) one way. Another thing fascinating was that even though the city is extremely safe, the taxis all have this thick bullet proof glass separating you from them. It makes it very difficult to communicate with the driver. I’m not sure why they have this system as it seems extremely safe in this town. Maybe others can enlighten me as to the reason why?
It’s difficult flagging down a taxi on the Rambla as there aren’t too many. I found it was easier to walk up a few blocks on a residential street and you could usually find one there. Also, keep in mind that there is a day rate and a night rate that the taxis charge. The night rate is a little more expensive. Only one taxi driver tried charging me the night rate during the day and when I pointed it out to him he claimed it was a mistake.
My friend had a friend that lived/worked in Montevideo so we stopped at her apartment. She was an older woman that was an expat working here. She had a beautiful apartment facing the water and it was 3 bedrooms. I would guess it to be about 1,900 sq. feet. I was surprised when she told me that her rent was only $600 US per month. She told me that her friend rents a smaller apartment facing the River for $400 US per month. Another good reason to retire here if you like the slow paced life. She told me that property here is cheap compared to Buenos Aires. She told me you can purchase a decent sized apartment (800 sq. feet) facing the River for about $40,000 US. She also explained many of the things I already noticed about Montevideo. She said that it was boring there. I told her how I thought the city was void of life and she laughed and agreed with me. She said that she goes to Buenos Aires when she wants to have fun. She has traveled all over the world as I have and she agreed that BA is a special place full of life. She is originally from Europe.
While walking with my friend downtown, I noticed a real estate office. I saw tons of listings and it confirmed that property is considerably cheaper here than Buenos Aires.
Montevideo had really nice neighborhoods as well. I took a city tour and it went through all of the nice residential areas of the city. I especially liked the area where all the embassies are located. It’s a very beautiful area and I would guess property is expensive in this area.
Perhaps the most beautiful and romantic spot is in the Plaza de la Armada facing the beaches and the city. You can see most of the city and it’s nice at sunset. People genuinely seem happy in this city and I found it interesting that many of them have never visited Buenos Aires even though it’s a short ferry ride away. The city definitely has a personality that is unique.
It’s not a place you need much time to explore. A weekend trip is probably enough to see much of the city. They have a city tour that is 3 hours long and costs $15 US. Much of it was boring (4 people I noticed fell asleep…including me!!) and it probably could be cut down to 1.5 hours but is still cheaper than taking a taxi around to see those areas. Traffic is not congested here and if you did retire here, owning a car would be ideal since traffic isn’t crazy like the rest of South America.
Last but not least, I did manage to hobby while here. One night my friend fell asleep and I managed to go out and do some exploring. I only managed to read about one place on WSG located at 1520 Tacuarembó. I didn’t know what to expect but I thought I’d put my reporting cap on for the “team”. You walk in and there is a desk with some girls standing around. I asked them if there were girls available and how many. She said about 10 girls. I sat down on this couch and girls started streaming in. Really, I was extremely disappointed. Most of the girls seemed out of shape and not really attractive. There were a few ok girls but no one I’d normally pay to see. Although some of them seemed to be about the level of some of the girls at Hook, Ness, Cattos, etc. in Buenos Aires. I rarely pull girls out of those clubs but if you do then you might like the selection at 1520 Tacuarembó.
Most of the girls were a 5 or 6 on a scale of 10. There was one 7 and I did ask to session with her to see what the inside of the rooms were like. The girl was from Montevideo and she was nice. She explained the pricing system. I didn’t want to be away too long since I was supposed to eat dinner with my friend. I asked for the ½ hour rate and I was floored when she said only 180 pesos (less than $7 US!!). Then she went on to say that if you wanted to do oral on her it was another few pesos, suck her breasts another few and if you wanted BBBJ another few, kissing another few. I wasn’t interested in kissing or oral on her but I did request a BBBJ. The session wasn’t mind blowing but I did pop so I guess it couldn’t be too bad huh? I’m not sure how much the session should have cost but I gave her 250 pesos ($9.50 US). She told me that an hour session is only 300 pesos ($11.25 US). I wouldn’t go back here based on the quality but again, some of you that aren’t so picky would probably like it here. I was amazed at how cheap it was. I didn’t have time to read the WSG reports on the prices. I just quickly scribbled the address on a piece of paper so I kept thinking I was converting wrong but those are the prices. She told me they are open 10 AM to 2 AM.
As I walked out the girl asked me to come back again. She told me the first session the girls don’t make much money but if a client returns and is a repeat customer the girls get to keep half. That kind of sucks to me. As I was walking down the street a guy handed me a little card that said, “Glamour – te espera” Promo $100 pesos ($3.75 US) . Tacuarembó 1412 (entre 18 de Julio y Guayao). Telefono: 4021669 Visita nuestra pagina: www.uruguayerotico.com (the site doesn’t work – I just tried). The picture on the card has a hot girl but of course she doesn't work there. I'd still be curious to hear others experiences here.
Mondays – Saturdays 10 AM to 3 AM; Sundays 6 PM to 2 AM.
Judging that some guy is handing out these cards I would guess there are a lot of sexual houses/apartments in this area. I didn’t have time to explore the sex scene in detail there but I would think there is a higher end scene with hotter girls. The girl I saw told me that there are a lot of bar type clubs to pick up girls. There are people with money in Montevideo and there must be a higher end scene. I’m sure it is a lot cheaper than BA. This is worth investigating for some of you that have the time and money to explore. Hope this helps.
Saint
Great report, Saint, thanks. I'm thinking of shooting over to Montivideo and/or Puntas del Este for a couple of days (judging from your post that's plenty of time) while I'm in BA. I still can't decide but will deal with it when I get there. Did you fly or take the ferry? Price?
Sorry. I typed it up so fast I didn't think of everything. I stayed at the NH Hotel that I purchased in a package from Buquebus's main office on Cordoba. They have pretty cheap trips there in packages. A 2 night/3 day trip from Buenos Aires was 516 pesos ($174 US) for two people. That included breakfast but not lunch and dinner which I would recommend you go to restaurants anyway and not eat in the hotel. They gave you the option of paying 288 pesos ($96 US) more for two people to take the ferry directly from BA to Montevideo instead of taking the ferry to Colonia and then sitting on a bus ride for another 2.5 to 3 hours to Montevideo.
I don't like buses so I opted to pay that 288 pesos for the both of us. If you go alone it's 144 pesos more. Keep in mind it's cheaper to buy the trip in a package with a hotel included. A normal round-trip fast ferry ticket from BA to Montevideo is around $100 US I believe. Prices were also cheaper because there were two people. A single rate is a little bit more. I think the single package price was 375 pesos for 2 nights/3 days at the NH Hotel and then the direct ferry price was 144 pesos. So if you go alone it would be around 519 pesos ( U$S 175) which I feel is pretty good.
The conversion rate is a little annoying because it's hard sometimes to do the 27: 1 on prices of various items. I did 30:1 in my head because it was easier to figure out. Restaurants were cheap. A nice restaurant called La Corte located in the Plaza Independencia had great food and the service was quite good. I didn't drink alcohol but a dinner for two people with appetizers, entrees, drinks and dessert was something like US$20 + tip. Of course you can get great food in Buenos Aires for 60 pesos for two people but usually not in the same type of restaurant.
Something else unique to Uruguay is that they have a sandwich called a "Chivito". I've never seen that word before I came here. It's a sandwich they have that is quite good. They had fast food chains that had them but they also sold them at nice restaurants. I had one at a restaurant called, Don Peperone, near the Plaza Independencia and it was quite good.
You can spend a nice weekend here and not drop too much money. As I mentioned, it could be a romantic get a way but could get boring too if you like a big city. I think the hobby scene there is worth exploring. I'm almost sure there is a bigger hobby scene there with good girls. The economy there is not too great. If I had more time to explore I would have checked out the scene. I don't think it would be too difficult to find all the action there. I hope my report stirs some interest in visiting this town and we start reading more reports. Good luck.
I thought this was an interesting bit of information regarding American tourists to Buenos Aires.
"Rob Batchelder, the US consul in Buenos Aires, says that even as the economic and political crisis of 2001-2002 drove out an estimated third of the long-term US-citizen residents from Argentina, short-term visits from the United States have skyrocketed. He cites a recent report that showed a 70 percent increase in North American tourist arrivals to Argentina each year from 2001-2003."
Personally I see the trend continuing the next several years. Still, Argentina will never be a powerhouse for business and commerce. I had a good conversation with Jackson today and we share the same thoughts on the city that we now live in.
Saint,
Great extensive report on Montevideo and truly interesting to read. Uruguay is somewhat tucked away in between Brasil and Argentina and for me had a shade of mystery over it for a long time. Thank you for the pictures in the Uruguay section and don't get put off by the obligatory complaining lurker. Thanks for sharing!
Swake
Just discovered this thread. I agree with Otto about being wary of discussing politics on a forum such as this (though I do enjoy a discussion over a good meal and a fine bottle of wine), but I couldnt resist commenting on this line by Starfe
"This is a country with very little balls of there own. "
I dont mean any offence Starfe and I see you have revised your original comments but I am a Brit and although I didnt fight in the Falklands War I know some who did and they came back marvelling at the bravery of the Argentinian soldiers, many of whom were teenage conscripts with out of date equipment, up against a professional army. They didnt stand a chance but fought absolutely heroically. Personally my view is that you've just got to look at a map to see the Malvinas are clearly Argentinian.
The thing about the US election to non-Americans is that as the worlds pre-eminent power, who is president affects us all in a way that Americans are never affected by other leaders...if Blair, Chirac, Schroeder, Koizumi and Howard all lost power, it wouldnt affect the Americans much, but who is US president can and does sometimes affect the rest of the world...from the global economy, to things like Kyoto and the environment. So its natural that we would have an interest, and thats the case every US election. It does seem more so this time around as Bush is anathema to so many non-Americans. Personally I've been living in the US for the last 4 years and I've found it fascinating seeing the whole process from the inside rather than looking in from abroad. The US wont always be in this position though, empires rise and fall, watch for the rise of China.
And now, having completely contradicted myself by talking about politics, I'll let you get back to the purpose of this thread, living in Argentina, something I wish I did myself.
MagicHat.
It's now past 5 AM and I'm just getting home from a night out on the town. I hung out with a cool American dude I met a few months ago that lives here. I also went out with these two young Scandanavian girls that I know here in town. I also went out with one of my friends that is a Porteno and he introduced me to his friends. All super cool guys. We all went out together since they all have cars. All from the elite families of Argentina. The ones with summer homes, winter homes, homes in Miami (that type). Cool ass guys.
We went to this new popular club called Jet and I was told it was hip. If you go there, avoid eating there and just go for the club as the food sucks. Perhaps some of the worst sushi I have ever eaten in my life. Thursdays are supposed to be good but it was almost all dudes. A true sausage fest. The ratio was about 7 guys for every girl. They did have some hot girls though. It's a trendy club with mostly 20's-30's crowd. We had a good time laughing and talking and these Portenos really liked hanging out with us Americans. It was interesting that one of them kept trying to talk to my buddy Khofoo about the Boston Redsox. They knew the owner of the club so before we left the owner sent over complementary beers and a bottle of champagne. These guys really know how to live it up. I made some new friends tonight. They invited me to go skydiving next weekend with them.
We decided to head to a club and they suggested- Cocodrillos. I haven't been here in about 2 years. The place is truly hit or miss but tonight was really miss. Honestly, I didn't see one girl I would have pulled out. Hell, I wouldn't sleep with any of those girls for free. The place has really gone downhill, IMHO. My friends knew the owner so we had no cover charge but I doubt I'll be back here anytime soon.
I'm damn tired but can't fall asleep now from drinking so many Red Bulls. Oh well. Still a fun night but pound for pound I'd rather spend the money on a hottie from the Recoleta clubs.
Saint
P.S. Some of you have PM'ed me saying you sent me email and I never responded. I respond to almost all my PM's inless they are just comments. I'm having a problem sending emails to AOL so if you emailed my work email, I did send a response but AOL is blocking our emails.
Saint,
" skydiving "
That could be a regular weekend hobby experience while in Buenos Aires. Please post a video when you make you're first Free Fall.
Always remember to bend you're knee's if the chute fails to open and never ever land on your head.
Starfe
Spring started on the 21st of September and it's really nice out now. It's funny though how the weather can change from day to day. Anyway, today is amazingly beautiful out. Last night an amiga came over and spent the night. I was surprised that she never had walked through the Recoleta cemetary before so I told her that I was taking her. Many of you probably make many trips to BA but never walked through the cemetary. It may not be your thing and that's cool if it's not. In fact, many of the locals I talked to that have lived here all their lives have never walked through it.
I've walked through it before but it's kind of nice to walk through it and reflect about life. Oh well. My friend was amazed at the size of some of the mausoleums. It may sound creepy walking around the cemetary but it's really not. It's very tranquil and peaceful there and it's really beautiful to see. We had a short visit there then had some drinks and a snack at La Biela. Perfect day for the outdoor patio.
I went grocery shopping after that and it's still an annoying process for me to wait in the long lines. I went to Carrefour today in the Paseo Alcorta mall after hitting the cemetary. If you want to get things delivered to your house, keep in mind you need to go to the main desk and get a little plastic credit card type ID that they store your address in the computer with. They won't deliver without this card so before you get to the check out lane, make sure you already visited the main desk for your card. Delivery is free as long as you purchase at least 60 pesos worth of items.
At the Jumbo in Palermo, delivery is free if you buy at least 200 pesos worth of items. Otherwise they charge 6 pesos. I find the selection much better at Jumbo and they have many US items like Pringles, Cheese in a can, A1 steak sauce, etc.
Saint:
Lines are an unavoidable element everyday in BA. However, there are ways for minimizing them. For instance:
- Never do groceries on weekends and Fridays. Always on weekdays, preferably early in the morning or late at night.
- Try to bring something to read or do (book, delayed phone calls, etc), in case you get stuck in one of these lines.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Hi Andres,
You are right but I have very little time during the week days (work days). I have a pretty full day with waking up early, going to work, meetings, school, back to work then coming home tired. The weekends are the only time I have to go to the grocery store. This is also the reason I don't have time to cook.
I was going to have my maid go to the store for me but I'm the type that doesn't make lists. I just weave in and out of the aisles and buy what I feel like I'm in the mood for. You are right though. I usually just talk on the cellphone while I'm waiting but maybe bringing the newspaper is a better (and cheaper) option.
Be careful once they deliver all of your items. I just noticed there were several items missing from my order. I just called Carrefour and told them the items missing and the girl I guess was able to pull up the order on their computer. You need to give them your order/ticket # and your name and just tell them what is missing. She said they would deliver it within the hour so I'll see if they keep their word. Make sure to check your bags I guess before they leave. The number to call was 0800-444-8484.
I just got back from Norte and it was totally empty. No line at all. Usually I have found that there is a dead spot in the afternoon between about 3 and 4 that is a good time to shop.
More bus info: I wanted to see what the weekends were like and I found that last Saturday I had to wait 3:58 for the #39 bus but that on Sunday I had no problems. In fact when I walked out of Santa Fe 3373 I got right on the 39 at the traffic light, no problem. Usually if the light is red they will let you on or off even if it isn't a stop. Later a buddy and I took the 39 again that day and the wait was less than a minute.
Today for some reason Norte did not have their usual beer sale but they had lowered the price of Brahma from 1.69 to 1.39. Bueno. Tomorrow Disco has beer 20% from the regular price of 1.57 so I will try to lay in a week's supply.
My phone bill was much higher for this 2 month cyle than it was last time. I notice there is a per call charge and a per minute charge but it is not broken out. I will run a regression analysis to figure out what the components are.
I ended up September about 16% over budget and I blame a lot of that on Mickey Mouse. I have adjusted the grocery budget downward, the laundry budget upward, and the "drinks out" budget upwards (the entire budget overage can be traced to this category).
I'd like to recommend my laundry, "Pato's Lava," Arenales 1864 between Callao and Riobamba. The gals there are very cute and friendly and they always return the stuff I leave in my pockets. One time a key, one time five pesos, and one time a Viagra tablet, which they returned saying, "I hope this didn't ruin your weekend." 5.50 per valet and they haven't lost any socks, unlike 5 a Sec that I was using before. Nothing but spinners working there (sorry Saint, no rubias, only morochas).
One thing in Saint's post I did not understand was the phrase "waking up early." What does waking up early mean? Noon? I'm just not familiar with the concept.
Hey Saint, dont you go to Disco? They looked pretty good to me and isnt there a disco on Montevideo or Roderiguez Pena?
Thanks for the tip on the laundry Dickhead, last time I used the laundry on Arenales 1600 next door to the Prince Hotel and they were friendly but very slow.
Hey MagicHat,
Yes. Read the older posts and you will see that I usually do go to the Disco near my house but I needed to get something in the mall at Paseo Alcorta so I took advantage of that and went to Carrefour. The Disco by my house is always busy no matter whether I've gone weekdays, weekends, nights, etc. I've never gone during the day on a work day though.
I still haven't taken a bus yet and probably won't for a while until I have more time. Nothing beats the convenience and time savings of the door to door service of taxis for me.
I also am overspending my budget so far. My monthly cycle goes from the 15th to the 15th of each month since I arrived to BA near then. I took a trip to Montevideo and went out to eat a few times with guys that were in town. I'm still not hobbying much and don't anticipate more than once a week. I still have amigas that come over that don't charge so that's been pretty nice. I'm finding it's not too difficult to meet girls but some of them get possessive quick.
Hey Dickhead. I'll take a hot morocha anyday of the week too. Not just blondes. Ha, ha. Really, give me a thin girl with a great body, nice natural breasts, a beautiful face and preferably no kids and I'll be in heaven.
As far as "waking up early" that usually means around 8 AM or so. I'm sad to say. I think you told me once Dickhead you wake up around 1 PM or 2 PM everyday. You're lucky to be doing that. I am working really hard but I'm enjoying it. I'm doing things now that I think will ensure that I'll be able to live in Buenos Aires for the foreseeable future. So far, I'm happy with the direction of all the things I'm doing. My game plan is going pretty good right now. Have fun fellas.
Saint:
Malls are a real headacke on weekends. Some friends and relatives invite me from time to time to eat some food on the food court at Paseo Alcorta. A nightmare to find tables, order for food (not to mention it is really expensive there), etc. Best advise is to avoid Paseo Alcorta and Alto Palermo as much as possible during weekends.
Andres
Well good luck Saint. From what I can see from the various forums you are laying the groundwork for a very successful business and at this rate, within 5 years you will be completely set up. The main thing that could wreck your plans is the rise of the peso if Kirchner does sort out the debt/economy, as that would once again severely restrict the foreign tourist. I'm sure you'll start hedging against that both with how you hold your currency and by trying to attract domestic tourists once you have things up and running so I hope it works out for you.
MagicHat, thanks for the good luck wishes. Hopefully I'm set up a lot quicker than 5 years. I anticipate (hope) that in 2 years things will be moving along nicely. We signed a 3 year lease on our office space and I'm really hoping by the end of the lease we need to move into a bigger office. I'm not too worried about a severe rise in the peso. Things are still a mess and it will take a while to sort out. Sure the peso could get stronger but honestly this mess will take years to sort out. Also, keep in mind that tourism here in Argentina is drastically increasing. The government is really starting to aggressively promote it now around the world. I will never really be going for the domestic market here. My target market is really the USA/Canada/Europe/Asia.
People will always be coming to Argentina for tourism and business. People will always need hotels and apartments. If the sex gets more expensive that will cut the number of mongers. There will still be lots of tourists coming down though. The hobby crowd is very tiny compared to the total number of people coming for work/leisure. Good luck.
Andres, yes the malls are packed on the weekends but that's also the time when there are the most girls. One of the girls that has been coming over I met in the mall so I'm not complaining. The best and hottest girls to pick up are not the girls in the clubs. Many times they are ordinary girls that are in the malls working, in the restaurants, grocery stores, etc. Just like in the USA. I hate waiting in lines and always will but I do enjoy going to the malls once in a while on the weekends. You know me Andres, so you know I'm not shy...ha, ha.
Also, Carrefour did send someone to bring all the items that were missing from my delivery. They even called back before sending the driver to ask me what color the candles I bought were so they could put the exact same ones since they couldn't tell the color from the receipt.
Sundays in Buenos Aires might be slower for the hobby scene but it's a perfect day to just explore around and take in all the simple things about the city. I love walking around on Sundays in Recoleta and near the cemetary and the Recoleta Village.
I was going to go out with this girl today but she couldn't find a babysitter and wanted to bring her kid. I didn't know she had a kid. I forgot to ask her last night when I was in the club. Oh well.
Anyway, it's nice near the Recoleta Village as there is a lot of life. I was going to go watch a movie at the cinema for a homework assignment I had from my Spanish class. The movie I wanted wasn't playing so I was going to see something else but the line was too long and I didn't want to wait. Instead, I got an ice cream cone at Freddos (which I think has the best ice cream) and I walked around the Village.
There are some bootleg CD's if you are looking to buy some CD's cheap. CD's are cheap in the legit stores here so I imagine these burned copies much be dirt cheap. I never checked on the price but they had a lot of them. I just bought the Maná Unplugged cd the other day at Tower Records at Buenos Aires Design and it was 22 pesos (u$s 7.38) It's really good by the way. There is plenty of tango dancing going on and today I saw this prodigy type young girl playing the violin with her dad. She had to only be like 5 or 6 years old but she was pretty good. There was a big crowd listening to her play. She was such a cutie.
I was walking around when Andres called and I asked him if there is a website to check movie listings online so hopefully he posts it as I'd find it really helpful.
When I was walking home, I ran into an American dude that lives here that I met before. He told me that he got mugged at gunpoint the other night which surprised the hell out of me. I've never experienced any crime here at all. I'm not posting this to scare anyone. I'm just posting it so people will be alert at all times. Crime happens everywhere but I still find the city very safe.
I love Sundays here. They are a good day to be lazy and catch up on things.
Saint:
Some links for looking online what movies are being played are:
www.pantalla.info
www.cinesargentinos.com.ar/cartelera/
www.adondevamos.com
My choices on ice creams are Persicco (Salguero St and Cabello St) and Un Altra Volta (Libertador Ave and Lafinur St).
Hope this helps,
Andres
Thanks Andres! I appreciate them. I'll also try those two ice cream stores once it gets warmer out. Thanks for the good info.
P.S. Vonage just lowered their price to $24.99 + tax per month for their unlimited Residential service. I use it and it is unbelievable. I make unlimited calls to the USA for less than $35 US per month. Also, my friends can call me free without even having to make a long distance call. For those that live here, it's a must! PM me if you need a referral link for a free month. Simply amazing technology. I just ordered one for one of the apartments that I'll rent out.
Good resource for those looking to retire overseas.
http://www.aaro.org/
For those of you that think you can easily get a tourist visa for your novias think again. It is a VERY difficult process. I'd say next to impossible. I always get a few guys that email/PM me asking what the chances are of them getting visas for their novias.
Take this case in point. My partner has a family member getting married in the USA where she also has a home. Her family is well established and most of the family members all have money, property, kids in private schools, etc. Some of them are professionals that own their own businesses and make great money and they are still having problems getting a tourist visa to go for the wedding.
Do you think your poor girlfriend with no money in the bank, no property, no real job can get a visa? Think again.
I just completed an analysis of my phone bill and I found some interesting things:
1) Although the phone bill breaks out calls from the land line into number of calls and minutes, number of calls is irrelevant and the charge is based solely on minutes. The charge is 1.17 centavos per minute in the "reducida" period and twice that or 2.34 centavos per minute in the "normal' period.
So does anyone know what the normal hours are vs. the reduced hours?
2) The above is not true for cellular. Here both the number of calls and the minutes affect the bill. I'm still working on the equations but for all four of the cell phone companies this is true.
3) Telecom Personal S.A. and Telefónica Communic. Pers. S.A. are considerably more expense, maybe 20% more, than Cia. Radiocommunic. Móviles S.A. or Cti. Pcs. S.A. (these names are how they appear on the bill).
4) It is about 25 times more expensive to call a cell phone as opposed to a land line!!!! (based on the reduced rate; about 12.5 times based on the normal rate).
Holy shit!!
Hope that helps.
Dickhead:
Normal period goes on Mo-Fr 8:00-20:00 hr and Sa 8:00-13:00 hr
Sometimes, there is an additional reduced period from 0:00 to 8:00 hr, especially for Internet access and long distance calls.
As far as cell phone companies, the widest Nationwide network belongs to CTI, but that could be of little use to you since you barely leave BA (if at all). Some people who call the same people very often use NEXTEL since it's the only company (as far as I know) that has the "handy" feature well developed.
Some relatives have been using Personal since the mid 90s and never complained much about it, so I think it works.
In any case. I don't endorse any company.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Greetings,
I've been away from the board for what seems like a long time but probably only a week or ten days, laboring in the mines of my game plan for moving to Buenos Aires at the end of the year. Amazingly it's coming together but with much to do. Three months plus is a good lead for turning your life over it seems. Unless you have to sell the house, divorce the wife and leave the kids with the relatives - may take longer. Copying and pasting all things of interest or future interest I'm now up to a 149 page Word document, much from the board and www.expat.... website.
Installed Vonage last night after some time on the phone with the tech group and now have a number, an 800 number and a fax line - sure beats the speed of the local phone company. Although you do have to wait for about 3 weeks for the number you're transfering to change over. They were kind enough to lower their rates upon my arrival, can't beat that. Devil's in the details - as ever.
So with that in mind I have a couple of questions that hopefully you'll have experience with.
- There was a lot of conversation at one point about transformers large enough to manage printers and the like. Does 400 (watts/volts/amps - one of these) do the trick? Does it work on smaller rated appliances too?
- I looked at one DSL provider, Fibertel, and all their equipment information was skewed to PC / Pentium based computers - anyone know if there are providers that work with Macintosh computers? Does Apple sales and repair exist in BA?
- On the subject of "drag it with you" or "buy it there" - if you don't require high end receivers, cd players, cassette decks and speakers, can you buy good quality equipment at a reasonable price and that are set up for the local voltage. Or is it really best to schlepp it with you?
- Vonage solves the problem of a cheap phone connection back to the U.S., but I haven't been able to figure out this one - if you're in BA, with your Vonage on and you want to head over to Santa Fe 1707 around noon but forward your calls to your local cell phone or a GSM phone - so you don't miss that breaking deal you're counting on to pay the rent - it seems you can't forward Vonage to an international number and a call forwarded to a U. S. GSM phone number located in BA is going to cost you the standard AT&T or similiar company international rate to Argentina of $2.70 / minutes + or minus a US$1.00. Any thoughts on a system that would lower the per minute rate?
By the way, as Vonage type phone service is rising AT&T has added IP phone service as an option - but not promoted - talking to them was like visiting the hall of mirrors - avoid.
Thanks in advance.
god bless a stable peso
For those of you buying property here keep a few things in mind. They don't do a final walkthrough inspection here which I find odd. I told my realtor I had to have a final walkthrough before getting my apartment. Yesterday I did the walkthrough and I noticed several little things. One of which is the doorbell didn't work. Before you go to the "escritura" where you pay the remaining amount due do, demand a final walkthrough and make one of the conditions that they must pay to fix some of the things that don't work.
You can hire an inspector to go through the apartment and see what does and doesn't work but one of the apartments is in a newer building so I just did the things myself.
I closed today on the apartment and finally got the keys. It felt good. People here are never on time. Even when they are collecting money! Almost every meeting that I've been to has started late. Just a way of life here. I'm too used to showing up on time. My lawyer is excellent and very respected in Buenos Aires. He had an English copy of what I was signing as well. He explained everything in detail. I would highly recommend him to those that are buying.
I got to my apartment and keep in mind it's NOT like in the USA where the owner leaves everything very neat and clean. There were empty boxes and papers scattered throughout. It was clear that he just got done moving out. It doesn't matter too much in this case because I'm having a painter repaint the whole apartment anyway but it would have been nice to walk into a clean apartment. I'm happy to get the keys to it. I'll be happier when I get the other one in 2 weeks.
Saint,
Well done on closing you're first deal.
Starfe
Bacchus9:
- You need to calculate your total power consumption (the *** VA that the device requires, usually on a label at the back of the equipment) and multiply it by 2 (e.g., if you add up 400 VA, get one transformer of 800 VA)
In any case, some applicances are more delicate than others, so they would ned a line stabilizer and surge protector (for instance, computers). You can compare prices on the several stores located at Parana St between 100 and 300 (and some on the crossing streets like Peron and Sarmiento). My surge protector (500 VA, the most plain one) costed me ar$60 back on Novemeber 2003.
- Apple just opened a showroom at Ayacucho St between Arenales St and Santa Fe Ave. In any case, I wouldn't trust much the local technical support, nor would I rely on local supply for spare parts (think of prices in the US multiplied by 1.7 or 2)
A relative of mine installed Fibertel at home. It came with an external modem and an internal LAN card. I guess that, if you Apple computer has a LAN card and it complies with TCP/IP, it should work with Fibertel.
Fibertel technicians are 18-20 y/o guys who visit customers to install their internal LAN cards into the PCs and the external modem. Since these guys are not "system engineers", I guess that Fibertel wants to focus on PC customers and not deal with Apple customers (which doesn't meat that its service won't work in your computer), which could be cumbersome to these inexperienced guys.
- You can buy some audio/video appliances here if you don't need much quality. Prices will be higher for similar quality than in the US. but you get rid of the hassle at Customs and the likelihood that the equipment gets broken on the trip. Also, you will be able to get local warranty (not a minor issue). ALso, in many cases you won't need a transformer (they are adapted to local voltages).
Hope this helps,
Andres
Bacchus,
Andres answered a lot of the questions I was going to.
Fibertel I'm finding is the most dependable company for high-speed internet. My office uses another company and I know other people that use other companies and all seem to have a problem at one time or another or the service has gone down. I use Fibertel in my apartment and it hasn't gone down once. Very reliable. I think it might be a little more expensive but it's worth it.
Personally, I think Macintosh sucks but you won't have a problem using yours. My partner has a Mac and it works fine but she came to her senses and realizes PC is superior and changed over.
I haven't found a way to forward calls to an international cellphone. If you have deals that important then I recommend that you keep service with a USA company like AT&T Wireless for important calls that you MUST get. Just don't give that # out as calls are damn expensive. Or you can easily solve the problem by bringing girls back to your apartment instead..ha, ha.
If you are moving here for many years then I recommend you convert a certain percentage of your savings into pesos. Others might give you a different opinion but IMHO, if you are going to live here for many years then you might want to hedge a little. Personally, I don't see the situation changing drastically in the near future but you never know. I converted 30% of my savings into pesos when it was over 3:1 to lock in the exchange rate. Sure, the peso could get weaker but it's a good hedge. I think 2.75 to 3.25 is a good range for the peso to stay in for the good of Argentina. Best of luck to you.
Saint
Ferolga777
10-06-04, 23:46
Saint
You've talked about leased apartments that you went on to rent and made some profit on. I am interested in learning more about those types of deals. Are there any books that you recommend on the topic?
I am wondering if it could be done in other places.
Quite frankly, I am educating myself on real estate and the more input I get the better my judgment.
Suerte,
Ferolga
Andres and Saint,
Thank you for shining some light on those unknowns for me. I'll be able to check some transformers here in advance for the computer equipment and the stereo gears sounds like great potential for headaches, just dump it. For a guy who knows about a lot of stuff, it's amazing how my mind turns into a sieve when it comes to the language of electronics, but I can multiply by 2. Thanks Andres. This also explains why I love Macintosh - beautiful to look at and the impossible becomes an intuitive breeze. Less is more with Macs and for those that love PCs, god bless, but for me it's like having to go to prison to use one. I understand they make nice doorstops though, he said smiling.
Looks like I got 2 out of 3 going my way. Answering those phone calls and keeping the cost down will be an ongoing problem, part of my scene, for the price of the international rate phone calls maybe I can hire someone part time while I'm 'round the corner. Or will it be the Hugh Hefner life style - doing business in the smoking jacket and pajamas and taking Saint's advice for takeout from Santa Fe 1707? Heh, heh.
Congratulations Saint on the new apartment, following your history - this is really a day for celebrating. You've got the brass ring. Also thanks for the encouragement on Vonage, I'm all ready switching to it for nice clear phone calls. Good point about buying pesos too.
Many thanks for all and I look forward to returning the favors when and wherever I can.
Bacchus9
Ferolga,
There are no books as far as I know of dealing with rental properties in South America. I probably could write a mini manual by now though. It takes trial and error, a lot of balls and some money. It was a big unknown for me but I wanted to learn about it and I always envisioned of someday living in Buenos Aires so I wanted to learn about it. You can't make a lot of money doing it though if you aren't there to manage them yourself. Also, keep in mind that here in Buenos Aires you must prepay the ENTIRE lease upfront. So that means if you have a lease of $800 US like I had and you rent it for a year you must pay $9600 US + another 2 months rental deposit in most cases ($1600). Then add in expenses, high speed cable and some other expenses of buying some nice furniture, etc.
Honestly, subletting isn't as good of a deal as it used to be because rents have gone up about 30+% from their low just a short time ago. Also, these pain in the ass owners are a pain to deal with and generally dishonest about the return of deposits, etc. If you are coming down alot it does make sense to lease an apartment. I've talked to 2 guys about doing this and then I'd sublet it out for them when they aren't here. They would have the distinct advantage of the owner (me) allowing them to sublet their apartment. In fact, I'd be doing the check in/check out's so no worries with the doormen. Most owners in BA won't allow you to sublet your apartment and it's strictly forbidden in the contracts you sign. That's another reason I stopped subletting. The owners didn't want to allow it if I renewed my leases.
Here is a real life example of how subletting can benefit you. You are a guy that comes to BA often. For the sake of argument, let's say you come for 10 days every month. You prefer to stay in an upscale hotel or apartment like Art Suites or Loi Suites-Recoleta. You are paying at least $1300 US for those 10 days. Instead of paying that $1300 at those places, you decide to do a long term lease for 6 months-1 year. You get a rate of $1200 US per month from me for a totally posh luxury apartment in a great location. You aren't here 20 days out of the month so you decide to have me sublet it out for you. I do everything for you. I market, have the website, do the check in/check outs for you. Collect YOUR money. Let's say out of that 20 days you only rent it out 10 days. At $100 per night you are effectively making back $1,000 US. Of course you would have to pay a 25% management fee but you're still getting back $750, thereby only really paying $450 a month for your stay in Buenos Aires per month. You rent it out more than those 10 days and you could be staying free!!
That's how I look at things. Too many people are too worried about how expensive things might be but they don't think outside of the box and find ways to enjoy the "good life" while at the same time saving money. Before you think that it's not realistic, I can honestly tell you I rented my luxury apartment for an average of 24 days a month which I consider amazing. Just something to think about.
I had 3 apartments that I did that with. I learned alot about real estate and rentals doing it. Some people mistakenly think I just jumped into all this real estate stuff. It's not true. I feel I did it right. Some of my friends thought I was nuts to get 3 apartments and invest money in Buenos Aires when the country was going to shit. I had faith then and I have even more faith now.
Keep in mind I was paying a 25% property management fee and I still got my entire investment back + I made a little more and I helped a friend make money that was managing them here. I paid out just over $9,500 US in commissions. But more importantly, I ALWAYS had a place to stay when I came to Buenos Aires. It was the same place and it was like a "home base" in Buenos Aires. The girls loved it too but more importantly, I loved it. I didn't make much money but it taught me alot about the market, what guys are looking for and what type of guys I want staying in my properties. I didn't even figure the savings of not paying a hotel while I was in BA in my return on investment calculations. You add that in and I came out way ahead. I even let a few close friends stay at my apartment free too.
The key is in your ability to market your properties. At my posh property I had a lot of guys here on business and actually a lot of Chileans as well. Some were on company expense accounts. I also used a lot of local contacts to keep my apartments full. I did have to pay out a commission but it will be worth it. A rental does you NO good if you can't keep it filled. Basically though I believe if you offer a quality product, you are honest with your customers, provide excellent customer service and go the extra mile to help them....you will do well. Whether you are selling a night in an apartment, a trip to Bariloche or any other widget you can dream of. Growing a business is not easy but it's not rocket science either. You do what I listed above and you should be ok.
I truly believe that real estate is a great investment in Buenos Aires. I am talking to more guys that are buying and I'll be managing some of those properties. My website will be up in 2 weeks. One of my friends here in Buenos Aires already might have a couple from the Embassey renting one of my apartments for 3 months. That is my target market. Expats and Embassey employees for the ones I own.
Still, investing in a foreign country isn't for the faint of heart. If you do...research, research, research and find people that have done it and succeeded. I feel I've provided enough free advice on the boards about buying property in Buenos Aires. I will provide assistance via my company once my website goes up. Good luck.
Crime
Personally, I don't find Buenos Aires dangerous at all. I've been here so many times over the past 2.5 years I lost count. I've lived here 2 months and I've NEVER experienced any crime whatsoever. I dress up at night, I walk around alone at night, I use ATM's at night.
Anyway, I think that some people are an easy mark but others including this American guy that told me he got mugged at gunpoint don't seem like easy marks to me.
Today when I went to my Spanish class one of my classmates told me how their friend from Denmark got her digital camera stolen from her the other day. Then last night when she went to the ATM to withdraw 1,000 pesos to buy another camera, she was mugged and had the money stolen. You CAN'T tell me this is a case of bad luck. Some people have "rob me" on their foreheads or just look like an easy person to rob.
In any event, be careful. I don't like hearing that anyone is getting mugged.
Ferolga777
10-07-04, 21:15
Saint
Thank you for your input. As always, you've been quite generous with your knowledge. I think it's fair to make a buck with it.
I am not thinking of doing it in Argentina. Quite frankly I am exploring about the possibilities of doing it in New York. Now, talk about a tough city!!!
You present your plan well and it appears to make perfect sense.
------------
On a different matter, I was watching The Take the other night. It is a documentary on worker who occupy empty factories and get them to operate again. Their rationale for those expropriations of property is that the factory owners had received generous government subsidies and aditionally owed the workers lots of money in back wages.
The villian of the story is Menem, who doesn't help his case with his frequent self comparisons to Jesus.
Ferolga
OttoGraham
10-08-04, 10:33
The villian of the story is Menem, who doesn't help his case with his frequent self comparisons to Jesus.
Which is humorous, because virtually everybody I know in Argentina told me he's really a Muslim. He DID open up the first Mosque in South America during his presidency. :D
Uncle Otto
"Technically", Menem is Catholic. He converted to Catholicism in ordet to cope with the former COnstitutional demand that the President must be Catholic. However, his son is buried in a Muslim cemetery.
(I won't say "hope this helps" because this info is clearly irrelevant)
What is REALLY relevant is that you take with a grain of salt the angry from locals against Menem. I concede that he was a son of b*tch, but society gladly joined his irresponsible social-economic program. Beating this dead horse let people release their responsibility for supporting his presidency and assign it all to Menem, something that I deem excessive.
Andres
OttoGraham
10-08-04, 12:44
What is REALLY relevant is that you take with a grain of salt the angry from locals against Menem. I concede that he was a son of b*tch, but society gladly joined his irresponsible social-economic program. Beating this dead horse let people release their responsibility for supporting his presidency and assign it all to Menem, something that I deem excessive.
Andres
I'm not quite sure what you mean, I hear all sorts of things from all different people when it comes to politics, especially in Argentina.
I've heard people call for the return of strong-fisted rule like there was in the 80s, I've heard people call for socialization of everything and overthrow of the oligarchy.
And everything in between.
Personally, it's not my country, so all I can do is listen, I don't have really strong opinions, except that I like my lomo apunto and I like my women hot.
Uncle Otto
Ferolga777
10-08-04, 21:15
Andres
Not to tweak you at all. But why is that a dead horse when he was a candidate for president recently. The documentary was filmed during the last presidential elections.
It is a lefty documentary with its sympathies lying with the hardworking people trying to provide for their families.
The documentary is more of an essay. If, we want economic progress, and, we define economic progress as being people with jobs providing for their children, then, cooperatives of employees in expropriated factories should be part of the plan of action.
Particularly, when one of the leverages that multinational corporations have is their ability to spring wings and fly away like a Roc.
Ferolga
Attitudes of people
The attitudes that I see today against Menem are similar to those I saw against Cavallo. These guys were praised as great leaders when "the party" (privatization process, loans, etc) was going on. When that unsustainable policies arrived to an end, people started to look for scapegoats (Menem and Cavallo).
In fact, I should call Menem a scapegoat more than a dead horse, since he still has a very slim chance of recovering in case that Kirchner fails, but for practical purposes he is history.
What I meant is that the anger against Menem was caused by himself and by the public, too. People support their leaders when thing go smooth and trash them when their administrations fail, even more the latter if the failed policies were supported by most of the public.
Andres
Ferolga777
10-09-04, 13:09
Andres
In that case Cavallo would be the dead horse. [Cavallo muerto.]
Ferolga
I posted this in the 2004 reports section in a response to a guy asking a question. I will post it here as well for continuity of the "Living in Argentina" section because I think it pertains more to this section.
_______________________
You really don't need to hobby too much if you live here and you are fluent and the girl you are pursuing isn't TOO much younger than you. Still, the really hot girls demand that you bring something to the table (i.e. you're good looking, have your shit together, or have money, etc....). I really like flirting with the everyday hottie that is working in the stores, restaurants, malls, etc. Also, do yourself a favor and have some business cards printed up for your business. (a) it shows the girls that you live here and are NOT a tourist; and (b) it shows them that you are a hard worker and have your shit together and just not here to party. Those two things are very important in the Latin culture with girls it seems. You take the everyday girl on the street (non-prostitute) and many wouldn't move to the USA even if she could. Family is very important to these girls and they don't want to move away from their families. Also, most of the people love Argentina and really the only reason to move out of Argentina would be to improve their economic situation.
Almost every girl I've given my business card to has either called me at my office or cellphone or emailed me. Trust me, you won't need to monger much if you play your cards right. Just budget to hobby 4-5 times a month which should be good for the weekends or when friends come in town. Good luck. I can't recommend living in Buenos Aires enough. It's a wonderful city. You should have very little problems getting residency status if your parents are from Argentina. I can refer you to good lawyers that can assist you with the paperwork as everything here involves a mountain of paperwork. I plan to establish residency here in a year or so.
Just don't think that these businesses are so easy to make money with. You mentioned businesses where you can buy them cheap and make an "automatic" amount per month. Very few businesses here are guaranteed to make money month after month. Doing business here is very difficult and it takes constant massaging and much hard work. Try to partner with a local if you can that knows what he/she is doing or that has good contacts. In the short amount of time I've been here I can see that to be very successful you must get a ton of assistance from locals. The only thing about Argentina that is certain is that nothing is certain. One thing is for sure, it takes a capital investment to survive here unless you have a job/project where you can work here and make money from the USA. Even skilled, highly educated people from the USA can't expect to make money here being an employee.
You MUST start your own business or buy an existing one that is successful. I've met some great guys that want to move here and some have brainstormed some of their ideas but I shot them down pretty quickly. I gave my advice to them as an unpaid consultant and I hope they found it valuable or helpful. A few of them were being unrealistic though. Think logically when you think of a business to do here. One guy I met that was just a real great guy wanted to sell a product here that is imported from the USA. This product is not so cheap in the USA and it would be even more here because of the import taxes. Also, who can afford to pay for an imported product here???? Tourists? Ok. Well, tourists can buy those products in the USA cheaper without the import taxes. There are wealthy people here but that is a small market and most things take volume to make money. I really encourage those that are moving here or want to invest here to really think your game plan through. Do NOT just listen to locals you are asking for opinions that might have a vested interest in you trying to start a business (maybe you'll hire them, maybe you'll use their lawyer, accountant, etc. [that just happens to be their relative], maybe they'll get a kickback, etc.???). Good luck to all.
I am interested in purchasing a beach house in Pinamar or Villa Gesell. I am just gettings started with this idea. I have visited Buenos Aires and those beach towns a few times over the past years. I am wondering if anyone has experience buying property as a U.S. citizen. I have talked to a few Portenos and they tell me it is no problem. I just want a foreigner's perspective as well.
Thank you in advance.
Will,
Take the time to scroll through this section. I posted detailed information on buying property here in Argentina. Pinamar from what I hear is gorgeous and less pretentious than Punte del Este. I actually have started a property management and consulting company that specializes in foreigners leasing and buying property here. I will have my website up soon and I'm currently in discussions with various reputable realty companies in town to list ALL of their property for sale. I sent a detailed business plan to several companies and all have set up meetings with me.
You can PM me if you want and I can give you more information. It's safe for foreigners to buy property here and Argentina has a very strong history of foreign ownership with no title problems. The same can't be said for other countries in South America, especially Brazil. As long as you have a competent attorney you will be fine. Just make sure you use a VERY good notory public (lawyer) as he is the one that checks the title history and ensures there are no problems. You can't just use a regular lawyer for this.
I have studied the real estate market the past 2.5 years. I've made some great contacts. I can refer you to the best lawyers, accountants and other professionals. I also have taken a LOT of time to find out where the various furniture stores are and who has what stuff at X price. I have phone numbers for American speaking doctors, dentists, consultants. I have honest painters, photographers, etc. at good prices.
Again, go read some of the advice I posted on buying property here as well as some of the laws on it and what is required. If you need further assistance and when you get more serious about deciding to buy, PM me. Good luck.
Saint
I am almost done working on my Apartment website. I've been working very hard putting this business together and I think I have a lot of experience leasing out apartments the past two years. Both of my apartments will be available for short term and long term rentals and I have about 16 apartments on my site already. (I plan to grow this number tremendously with employees that will actively look for properties to add and also friends that are purchasing apartments that I will manage).
I also will get heavily involved with real estate sales/purchases in Buenos Aires, other parts of Argentina and Punte del Este, Uruguay.
Take a look at the site and let me know what you think. Ignore the pictures on the website for my apartments. I just spent a fortune on all new luxury, contemporary and most importantly COMFORTABLE furniture. Most of it is from Europe. The mattresses in my apartments are the same mattress that is in the Presidential Suite at the Four Seasons Hotel here in Buenos Aires. (Simmons Premium Beautyrest pillow-top mattress). The mattress alone was about 2,500 pesos -to give you an idea of the kind of stuff I furnished my apartment with. I'm getting a professional photographer to take pictures next week.
A few guys from the board have seen one of my apartments and so far all of them seemed pretty impressed. This isn't a rinky dink studio or small one bedroom. Both apartments are very good sized apartments that are totally luxurious.
They will come with personalized business cards for your apartment, a GSM cellphone, high-speed internet access and lots of other perks. Best of all, I live here to personally manage my own properties in case you have problems. I have an office downtown that you can come to for assistance and I'll also let my guests make free calls to the USA in my office. You also can call 800/888/877 toll-free numbers there.
I have a solid reputation of NEVER ripping guys off, I'm a straight shooter and rest assured if you rent with me you will get your deposit back. It's been frustrating dealing with some of the locals here. I plan to run this company with US style customer service.
My company, as I already mentioned, will assist those that are interested in buying property here in Argentina as well. You can get screwed about a million different ways here. I spent a lot of time finding the best people to work with and I've found that is invaluable here in Argentina. I truly believe real estate as an investment can provide tremendous margins if you handle it properly.
The location of both of my apartments is great. They are actually in Recoleta close to Recoleta Village. Take a look at my website and let me know what you think. www.apartmentsba.com
Enjoy BA all.
Leif Erickson
10-16-04, 20:02
Saint,
Whats involved in gaining permanent residency in Argentina?
I mean what are the advantages? B.A. is a beautiful city, but I can't see moving there unless you come from a country where the taxes are oppressive. Does the government require you to put money into a bank in B.A. so they can tax it?
Thanks
Lief
Hi Saint
I've just checked out the Recoleta 1 bedroom flats (A1 to A3) and started typing this and then went back and read your email again and saw your points about the photos and the comfort level of the furniture, which was going to be my main point.
A1 looks great, but where would you sit!? The photos make the flat seem as if it would be nice to look at, but uncomfortable to stay in so I am glad you mentioned the comfortable furniture. The kitchen looks fab, but why are there no photos of the bedroom or bathrooms?
The photos of A2 are so clearly of the "pre-Saint" days that there couldnt be much confusion, but the first apt looks good enough that you might get confused that it was after you've done it up, so imho, I'd update the photos asap.
A3 is another nice apt but why do you have rates quoted for A1 and A2 but not A3? Is it because you dont own it?
Overall the website itself looks like a clean, professional job, easy to follow, good organisation, relatively fast, impressive - pretty much what I'd expect from you. My only complaint is that I cant afford to stay in any of them!
best wishes
MH.
MagicHat,
As I mentioned a few times. Disregard the photos for A1 and A2 for now. I have purchased a ton of new furniture and hired a professional photographer to take pictures once ALL of the furniture is delivered. Trust me, my apartments will be VERY comfortable.
A5, A6 and A7 will also have photos up soon. They are brand new apartments that will be available soon. If things go well, the owner (my client) will buy an entire building for rentals in the future.
I'll have detailed photos up soon. I'm still developing the site and have about 100+ properties to add to the for sale and the long term lease section. The prices for all the apartments are up except for 2 apartments that I'm waiting for the owner to let me know the prices. I hate sites that don't display the prices. It's the "Argentinean way" of doing things in my opinion. All my apartments will have rates posted. If the owners don't get back to me, I'll remove them from my site.
I do plan on adding more apartments for short term rentals in all price ranges. The apartments that my company owns aren't geared towards the guys that want a cheapo hotel/apartment. They are geared towards professionals/businessmen/families that want a 5 star experience at much lower prices than a hotel.
I know it will take time but I plan on growing this company tremendously in the next few years. I hope to be one of the largest property management companies in Buenos Aires someday. I want to focus on properties owned by foreigners but I'm also being contacted by locals now that see I'm damn serious about doing business and I can help them make money. Most locals that I meet are amazed that I would leave a very posh life in the USA to move here. It makes them proud of their country that I would give it all up to try making a life here. People can say what they want about the USA but I'm finding that locals would much rather do business with an American than a fellow local citizen. These people don't trust one another....and for good reason I might add.
One local real estate executive told me last week that I have already accomplished more in 2 months with my businesses than she has seen some local companies accomplish in years. I'm used to presenting business plans to Fortune 1000 companies so I think when I walk into a meeting I'm able to clearly show them why it makes good sense to work with me. When it comes down to it though, people are going to work with me because they want to make money.
I really hope my company changes the way real estate is bought and sold in Buenos Aires someday. I have big goals and I hope I achieve even half of them. Thanks for the nice words.
Saint
Very ambitious Saint, the website looks well designed, and from there I can tell you are serious about your business in BA. I hope you will achieve your goal someday. I don't know about the prices of hotels in BA since I've never been there, but I've well travelled internationally for my business, and your apartment looks like a good value. I don't know if you had mentioned before, but what made you pack up and went way south to start a new life, new business by yourself? I don't think chica is the only motivation. if you don't mind telling. The move alone takes lot's of courage.
Thanks Marino for the nice words. Yes, my apartment is a GREAT value when you compare it to similar type experiences in hotels or apartment hotels. In all honesty, my price will go up on my apartment in the very near future. As far as wanting to know my motivation, go back in the past 2.5 years worth of posts I have posted on Buenos Aires. I'm not going to rehash all of it here. I love this city and as I posted many, many times. The girls had very little with my decision to move here. If I was moving somewhere for the sex alone I would have moved to Brazil. Yes, it took a lot of courage to do what I did but there is no guarantee things will be easy. Very, very difficult to make money here. I'm cautiously optimistic though.
______________
I truly believe my properties will be some of the best rentals in the area when everything is finished. I just got more furniture delivered today. It's starting to look amazing. I am just waiting for the TV stand and a small stand and some things for the walls and it will be done. I also plan on buying a futon and putting it under the staircase to take advantage of the room and for those that want to share the apartment when they come.
I just ordered sound-proof triple pane windows. I wasn't going to because the price is astronomical but it will be awesome when it is in place. I feel like the published price is a steal when you compare it to the upscale hotels and apartment hotels in the area. I'll be raising the prices in a few weeks. Anyone that books while the price is still up will have that price honored.
I have pictures of some of the new furniture on my site. A professional photographer is coming next week to take photos. So I'll replace them once he gets them.
I get my 2nd apartment tomorrow and completely renovating it and the furniture is also upscale European furniture. You can hit the "Gallery" key on any apartment on my website to see more detailed photos. I've just secured contracts with more companies and will be adding about 60+ apartments for rental, long-term leases and for sale.
http://www.apartmentsba.com/system/productos_detalle.php?id_prod=15
I signed the final contract (escritura) for my 2nd apartment today. Something very strange here in Argentina is that often times the utilities in a property are never changed into the new owner's name. The owner of the apartment had a whole stack of bills for the water, gas, electricity, etc. with someone else's name on them. When I inquired about it I was told that often times the new owners don't bother to change over the utilities into their own name because it's too much of a hassle. That kind of gives you the mentality of the system here.
I was really surprised and asked what happens if the new owner doesn't pay the bill. Doesn't it become a problem? I guess not! Anyway, I got the keys to the new place and it's getting remodeled with new paint, new furniture and I might have the kitchen retiled as I HATE the tilework in there now. The apartment is really great though and a place I could see myself living someday. Just very quaint and comfortable.
I designed my own places and picked out all the furniture myself. Everyone that has been in my new apartment has commented it looks like a professional decorator did it. I bought some furniture magazines and basically took the best things out of various magazines and had stores make things or order them specifically for the apartment.
I've been learning more each day about doing business here. It's not easy but you get the hang of it after a while. I'm being approached now by people that are thinking of creating REIT's here and hopefully I can manage those properties.
I have a date tonight with a hottie. Damn I love it here. I can really see myself living here the rest of my life....
____________________
Update:
Make sure when you are buying things for your apartments you ask the store if they are a "Tax free" authorized store. You can get a VAT refund if they are a participating store. Many stores don't voluntarily tell you. Today I spent over 2,500 pesos at Home and Harmony on sheets, comforters, pillows, etc. and got a nice little receipt for a VAT refund.
Hey Jackson,
I have a thought that a new thread should be created for Saint. Saint has contributed much to the Living in Buenos Aires thread, but lately he is doing a lot of self-promotion regarding his apartments, etc and I am wondering if he can have his own thread so those of us who don't want to read that specific stuff, it but still want to learn about living in Buenos Aires can learn stuff more easily?
Just a thought.
Stowe
And I'll stop talking about specific business stuff since if it bothers some people. I thought I was helping. As far as self-promoting I think you'll find that I have helped A LOT of people that are planning to move here or that have already moved here. I have taken time to help several guys that have already moved here or planning to move here some day. These are guys I didn't charge one penny to help but just did to be a nice guy. Both just put offers to buy a place.
Stowe, why don't you just skip over my posts so I don't waste your precious time. Part of living in Buenos Aires for many guys that are moving here involves buying property so I think my posts are valuable and I think many would agree. I try to post useful information with all of my posts and I think that I do.
I don't want my own section and I think my posts involve "Living in Argentina" which is the whole purpose of this section. Apparently some (or at least Stowe) is bothered by my real estate posts, so why don't you guys just avoid my posts? Just skip over them.
P.S. I can think of few other people on the entire WSG site that have contributed as much to it over the years than myself. Good luck. Sorry to waste your valuable time, Stowe. In case you weren't noticing it..not too many guys contribute to this section but I guess you're too busy to notice that fact.
Chuponalgas
10-25-04, 00:13
LOL, you can't please everybody.
I love your posts, SAINT. AND your pix. Keep up the good work. I have found that, if I don't like somebody's post, it takes 1 second to skip to the next post, so I don't know why anyone would *****. Personally, I get tired of the "Dear Penthouse, I can't believe it happened to me" posts. I would rather hear about addresses, prices and places to stay and eat, rather than a detailed description about how somebody licked somebody else's asshole!
Hi Saint,
First let me say that I acknowledged in my first post and I will again that you have posted a HUGE amount of information in this and other threads. I never said you did not. I do not intend to flame and if you ever perceive something I post as such, excuse me. That is not how it would be intended. As indicated by your response to my first post, I believe you might react that way so I want this mentioned up front.
I also agree that you and Dickhead have and can be the most important posters to this thread because of your personal experiences. In fact, if either of you were to write a How-To on the processes to move and live in Buenos Aires, I would be it for $75 (perhaps more). You both have done what many of us want or plan to do and your knowledge would be huge.
I want this thread to be about living in Buenos Aires so we can learn from it. I need about $150K ($75K cash and $75K asset appreciation) in the next 3 years (should be fairly easy) and then I will be able to retire to Buenos Aires at a relatively young age and fairly comfortably. I hope and want this thread to help me. If you or Dickhead do not write a How-To manual, perhaps I will. Having had a couple of things published I am already envisioning the structure and outline-it would be fun.
My position is that most of your recent posts (perhaps the last 30 to 45 days) have not be helpful. Let me explain. As a former Fortune 100 corporate trainer, I understand that to educate someone takes more than telling them what I am doing. Beyond that, one must be told HOW to do something and WHO/WHERE to find help when needed. That is where I believe your recent posts fail. To tell someone I just designed a web page does not teach them how to do it themselves!
Example: you describe buying apartments to rent and your marketing strategy; i.e. the internet. I already have done that with houses here. I know that would be a good way to make money. I also know that marketing is essential to a successful business and that creating an internet site and posting photos of the apartment is very important. I have created numerous websites using both Java script and now VB so I already can do that. What I do not know is HOW you did it and WHO you had help you and HOW you found these people. The WHO and the HOW/WHERE are the most important pieces of information, not the WHAT that is being doing.
You mentioned that you bought into a travel agency a while ago and you often mentioned your ‘partner’. I do not believe you have ever posted the process of HOW you met your partner, HOW you worked with that person and the steps you took to buy into this business. Again, the HOW and WHO were missing.
I know from when we went out to dinner that your partner’s travel agency was somewhat successful prior to you buying into it and that your partner comes from a prominent and well known Argentina family. However, I do not recall these specifics ever being posted and HOW you met this person, etc.
Another example-on 10/16/04 Leif Erickson posted a question about HOW to do something. He received no response from anyone. I wonder why? Perhaps because it was not important to those who would have the answer?
Your recent posts only describe how successful you have been in such a short amount of time. Granted, you have done very well (most likely better than me, especially since my goals have changed) and should be proud. You mention that you have been told that you ‘have done more in 2 months that others have been in years’. How does knowing this help us understand HOW to make the transition to Buenos Aires? How does knowing that your interior decorating skills are of a professional level help us understand HOW to live in Buenos Aires?
I one hundred percent agree you can teach us a lot. But if this thread is truly to be to assist others in a possible life transition to Buenos Aires, it is the ‘HOW I did it’ and ‘WHO can me’ and the ‘WHERE you need to go’ that needs communicating, not the ‘WHAT I have done’.
Having said all this, I may be wrong. To verify this situation, I will spend a few hours on Monday and Tuesday reviewing many of your past posts. I will look for the HOW and the WHO/WHERE and how often that info is provided. Being a statistical kind of guy, I will do an analyst and percent it out. Of course, it will only be based on my observations but I will do my best to be objective. With each post, I will look for the HOW, WHO and WHERE. If they are there, then that post fulfills your point.
After reviewing this, if I find I am wrong I will immediately post that I am wrong with an apology to you. I am not insecure or have too big an ego not to admit when I am wrong and if I am, you will get my apology. No problem.
Perhaps my expectations of this thread were unreasonable?
Thanks,
Stowe
Ferolga777
10-25-04, 13:05
Saint doesn't come off as a tout trolling for business. Nor is it the case of a mental patient low on meds rambling nonsense incessantly.
Saint is a guy that is writing on a regular basis about his experiences living in Buenos Aires. He's been giving us a chronicle of one man's quest to achieve his dream of making a good living in Argentina.
Saint, Dickhead and Andres and others have made this Living In Argentina section a valuable source of long term stay info.
Another round of applause to Jackson for running the best damn travel site on the net.
Ferolga
Ferolga777
10-25-04, 15:48
Stowe,
A statistical analysis of how useful a posters posts are? Hmm!?
You know what Disraeli said about statistics.
However. Good post. It brings up a good question:
Is 150 thousand dollars good enough to live in Buenos Aires indefinitely?
It was my understanding that one would need about 24 thousand dollars per year to lead a comfortable expat life.
Ferolga
Stowe,
I don't feel I have to post every single detail of my journey to BA, how I got here, how I met every particular person, etc. As you mentioned, I'm not getting paid to do it. I feel I have contributed a lot. Go back and re-read all my posts. Or maybe you can move here and start benefitting this section. That would be great.
As far as all your questions, I have answered some of them and some of them I don't have time to answer now. As for the travel agency being
successful before I came you should note that most of that success can be attributed to me. That is the God's honest truth which my co-owner can verify and honestly told me. I referred about 90% of their business to them over the past few years she told me. She always tried to get me involved in the business years ago but I was too busy traveling around the world and running my other business in the USA.
Anyway, the travel agency has grown tremendously since I have been involved. Just a fact. We can track our daily hits, where they come from, what countries in the world are accessing our site, which sites they came from, etc.
As far as an apology, I could care less. I just can't stand people that complain when someone is contributing with information. That's my biggest pet peave about some WSG guys. Very small number of them out there and you just happen to be one of them. I could also care less about your "analysis of my posts". It doesn't take a rocket scientist to show that I have helped a lot of guys. As far as you being a corporate trainer for Fortune 100 companies. I'm sure you were paid for it. I'm not paid a dime to help guys out by my posts. I've been doing it for the past 5+ years on numerous boards. I've asked for nothing in return but still amazed when people like you complain. Best of luck to you if you decide to move here.
Ferolga,
Your assessment is correct. To live a very "comfortable" life here I figure you need about $2,000 US per month. Of course all our definitions differ on what comfortable is but I haven't figured out a way to spend less than that doing the things I want to do and living where I do. Best of luck.
Saint
P.S. Jackson, I'd formally request that you not create a separate section for me. Thanks.
Actually I need another $150K on top of what I already have invested and saved to ensure about $40K a year. I want to be able to live about 8-9 months in Buenos Aires and 3-4 months in the US so I need more money to maintain my house, etc.
As for the analysis, I realize one cannot put a statistical number to subjectivity, but I can read the posts and determine how often the How, Who and Where are provided in relationship to the What.
Just gives me something to do. Besides, if I am wrong than Saint and those who support him can have a good laugh on me. No problem.
Again, I want this thread to be meaningful and just telling us What is being done is not educating us as to how we would do it once there. Seems logical to me.
Stowe
Saint,
I will take you on your word that what you say about the travel business is true. No problem, since that is not something that an outsider can verify anyway.
And of course you cannot post every single aspect of your activities. But I still ask the question about how posting what a person is doing teaches us how to do it?
It is interesting that you group me in with other WSG posters with this statement: ‘I just can't stand people that complain when someone is contributing with information. That's my biggest pet peave about some WSG guys. Very small number of them out there and you just happen to be one of them.’
Interesting that I am in that group since this is the ONLY post where I have ever complained about contributing information. I guess because I did it once and it was about your RECENT posts, is the reason I am now one of those guys. I guess, some people just cannot accept differing opinions without taking it personal. It was intended as an observation not a personal attack.
As a point of clarification regarding information provided in posts. Quantity does not equal quality.
I do wish you all the success on both your businesses and no hard feelings on my side. No big deal.
Stowe
Chuponalgas
10-25-04, 16:46
SHEESH! Enough already!
Personally,when I need very specific information, I do a search or PM a Senior Member. When I am not traveling, I read this board for entertainment, and I LOVE to hear about details of living in Argentina, apartment prices, anecdotes, etc. If I see a post I am not interested in, I move my index figer 1/3 inch and SCROLL DOWN.
Saint, what is the overall trend for R.E. prices in BsAs? Has there been a big noticeable rise since the meltdown? When I asked around there, it seemed that a lot of commercial property at least, was priced in DOLLARS and therefore, theoretically at least, didn't fluctuate as much. I am personsally convinced that the U.S. economy is gonna take a dump, and I might want to buy some overseas assets.
Chuponalgas,
I totally agree with you and apparently so do many guys emailing me and PM'ing me. It would surprise people but there are non-mongers that are now reading the Living in BA section for the real estate information I posted which surprised me. I honestly feel that property is expensive here but if you buy a premium property in a good part of town it will continue to appreciate. I think the only area that is insanely priced is in Puerto Madero. Some properties are as high as $3,000 US per sq. meter!!! (More than double the price of the best areas of Recoleta). There isn't anything in Puerto Madero and it's far from everything. No thanks!
As far as the overall trend, there are less and less great properties on the market now. I looked at over 40 properties when I was looking and I only saw 4 that I found worthy of buying as an investment for rentals. Keep in mind I am damn picky and I bought properties that were good enough to live in someday if I had to. I love both apartments. Property has been priced in U$S here for some time even before the meltdown so besides some panic selling right after it-- great deals are hard to find now. The best time to buy was right after the devaluation when people were dazed and confused. Oh well.
I know a guy that bought a nice 2 bedroom apartment with garage not far from the cemetary 2 weeks ago and he got a decent deal so there are properties out there. (He paid less than $1,200 per sq. meter). I'm going to be looking on Wednesday at 4 apartments for a client that wants to purchase a property for an investment so I'll post how it goes. I also believe the US economy is headed down.
I'm sure there are other great properties on the market. Keep in mind that I bought both apartments in only a 2 week time span. Just an FYI...an investor that found my apartment site from a Google search and does business in BA offered to buy my apartment from me this weekend on Las Heras for 20% more than I paid for it just a month ago! (Like I said...you buy a premium enough property and there WILL be demand for it). I turned it down though as I believe I can make more over the next few years renting it out as a vacation property. That same guy (investment banker) asked if I had any interest in selling my business which keeps me optimistic. Still, I'm realistic. I know it will take MUCH hard work and dedication for the next few years to grow this like I want to.
I see more interest in foreigners buying property here. 2 of the real estate companies I work with said that in September and October they sold more properties to foreigners (Americans/Europeans) than ever before. Does that tell you anything? I really think though that premium properties will continue to rise in value as long as you buy in a good area.
Hope it helps.
Saint
P.S. Stowe,
I am extremely aware that quantity doesn't equal quality. (Just look at people like Nibu and other people that post in the BA section). I try to post meaningful information and I think I have in the majority of my posts from around the world. I think you are being totally unrealistic in your requests for even more detailed information. You remind me of those beggers on the street where when you give them a peso they keep asking for more and more and won't leave you alone. The title of this section is "Living in Argentina". Not "the step by step detailed process of how you can make it to Buenos Aires, who you should know, how you got there, how you can survive, what you need to do, etc.". Maybe ONCE you move here you can be a good guy and post all that stuff. Until that day comes, please just skip over my posts.
Here are some helpful companies/people that you may want to check out if you live here. I looked at many companies/individuals but these people all came highly recommended and their prices are fair and they did a great job.
Locksmith/Safe company (Cerrajería): Cerrajería Alerta (Ask for Damian). Montevideo 585 Tel/Fax: 4373-7524
They can re-key your doors once you buy a place to live. They also have good fair prices on industrial strength digital safes like the ones you find in good hotels. A good sized safe was about 600 pesos and they also charge 50 pesos to come out and install it and bolt it to the wall or floor. You can get a discount if you buy more than one. They are dependable and they showed up on time! (That is a rarity here in BA).
They are friendly and honest and good people to do business with. I highly recommend them. Tell him Saint sent you if you want.
Private Spanish Instructor: Gabriela www.puertoespanol.com.ar Email: gabriela@puertoespanol.com.ar
She is EXCELLENT. I took intensive classes at a school for a month but I had to lessen my schedule since I'm very busy now. I learned a lot from her the past month. Her rates are reasonable and she is really good. I think I learned more from her than the school. I split the cost with two other girls and I ended up paying even less than i paid at the school. I will continue at the school next month AND use her. I am damn busy now but I'm very motivated to be totally fluent within 1.5 years. Unfortunately I have little/no time to study besides the classes.
Carpet Cleaners: Willie 15-4417-5846
I forget the name of his company
For some reason to steam clean carpets here is expensive. I called several. Anyway, this guy is very nice, reliable (also was on time) and he speaks English very well. He did a great job. I recommend him as well.
AllIWantIsLove
10-26-04, 00:28
Hi Saint,
...
I want this thread to be about living in Buenos Aires so we can learn from it. I need about $150K ($75K cash and $75K asset appreciation) in the next 3 years (should be fairly easy) and then I will be able to retire to Buenos Aires at a relatively young age and fairly comfortably. ....
Stowe
As I am close to retirement age I have been researching how much income you can expect from your assets. The figures I have seen are between 2 and 4 percent. So for $150K between $3000 and $6000. Between 2 and 4 percent seems pretty low doesn't it. But here is how that number comes about. First, it assumes that you want to protect the principal against inflation. So you can't spend all of the interest and dividends; you have to kick back into the principal enough to cover inflation. So maybe you earn 7% but inflation is 3%, that leaves you 4% to spend. 7% seems low too doesn't it. But, second, money which has to last for a long time has to be invested conservatively and conservative investments don't earn as much as riskier investments.
Beyond what I have said above I can't defend these figures. I am just reporting what I have read.
Bob
I'm sitting here waiting for some furniture to be delivered. What a waste of time but essential. To give you an idea of the hassles, the mattress company (Simmons) gave me a 5 hour window! Oh well. At least I discovered that my neighbor must have wireless internet because I am picking up a signal. It's not too strong but strong enough to check emails and surf the web so I'm fine.
On the way over here I had an interesting conversation with a taxi driver. I assumed that all of them either rent their taxis or own the car outright. Most pay about 50-80 pesos per day to rent the car. Some I talk to own their own cars but not many. This guy today, Rubin, told me that some also have the option of taking a straight 30% commission from the meter. He likes this better because it's less risky for him. The owner also pays for all the gas and any mechanical problems. I asked him what he makes per month and he told me about 1200 pesos working Monday - Saturday about 10+ hours per day.
I really find things like this interesting although to some of you it might be meaningless..
Saint,
Do you have any email contact information on Gabriella? I filled in the form on her site and sent her a question, but it was rejected as not being available on that server.
Info on the Taxi driver is very useful to me, thanks.
Stormy
Stormy,
Yes, she is having problems with her website. Her email is: gabriela@puertoespanol.com.ar Good luck.
__________________________
Also, for those of you moving here and buying property, make sure you don't forget basic common sense type things. I'm talking to some foreigners that purchased property here and they didn't even buy property insurance! This is a huge mistake. Property insurance with a reputable company is less than $10 -15 US per month. It's crazy not to get it. If there is a fire in your building or your apartment you are out of luck.
IMHO, you should be insuring your property after you make the first "boleto" payment (30% down payment). You are paying a lot of money initially so if there were to be a fire do you think the owner is going to pay you back your 30%?? Good luck. Make sure you insure your property ASAP after the first payment. You can get the insurance on the spot and they will give you a "HogarSeguro - Certificado de Incorporacion" to show you are covered.
One property owner who already closed on his properties used the excuse that he is "shopping around for the best rate". IMHO, this is stupid. When insurance is less than $15 US per month...honestly, how much are you going to save?? I spent more on a typical dinner in the USA than some of you are trying to save per year on insurance. Go with the company with the best reputation and backbone that can cover you if there is a loss.
Also, make sure you are using realtors that know the actual laws. I met with one the other day that approached me about doing business on my site. He clearly didn't know the correct laws and is giving incorrect information to his clients that are effectively adding on 2.5% of the total price of their purchase!!! When I told him that he is making a mistake he tried to talk his way out of it but he was clearly wrong. I consulted many, many, many sources before buying to learn about the process. He just sold a $170,000 apartment to an American and he had her pay an extra 2.5% tax. That cost her $4,500 more because of that. And you know what??? There is not a damn thing she can do about it now.
Don't just trust people on blind faith. Do some research or use consulting companies that know what they are doing or that know the laws. You'll find that many, many locals don't know the actual laws here.
Don't lose your common sense after you move to South America. Here you need it even more than the USA. Good luck.
JamesBond69
10-27-04, 15:56
Earlier this year I produced a travel video "The Ten Best of Buenos Aires" for DVD and television broadcast. OK. It's not probably what most of you might consider the best of Buenos Aires. My personal Buenos Aires ten best includes Madahos, Hooks, Envidia, Blacks, etc. This video includes Recoleta cemetary, Plaza de Mayo, San Telmo, if you get the drift. It's for the "regular' tourist market, not the hobby kind. I wish it wasn't, was wall to wall BBBJ, CIM, GFE, etc but unfortunately that's what it is, as boring as may seem to you.
Anyway it's available online in DVD and download at www.totalvid.com, The URL is http://www.totalvid.com/videoDetail...6903&v=23279323
The download sells for $3.99, the DVD*-*$16.95. Cheap. Think of all the money you save by buying the video and not having to spend your precious time and money in Buenos Aires going to all the tourist places, doing all the usual non sexual tourist things (however I do recommend Roxanne
s city tour while in Buenos Aires).
Anyway after viewing "The Best of Buenos Aires" I guarantee you that you will have a foolproof cover story (alibi!) to tell your relatives, particularly your female relatives - your wife? girlfriend(s), fiancee, mother, sister, sister-in-law) when you return to sex prison from your wild tour of the boliches and apartments of Buenos Aires.
Imagine how pleased they will all be when you describe in great detail the exciting experience of visiting the National Cathedral in Plaza de Mayo and San Martin's tomb. They probably suspect - or are certain - that you are a sex tourist. Now they will be completely caught off-guard and regard you as an ordinary tourist. The video is an investment in your own moral upgrade, at least in the perception of the significant others in your life.
*
So please buy it, and, if you like it, recommend it (you can email the web page address to a friend on the site). Help out a fellow monger. Most of the revenues I receive from this video will go to support the hobby on my next trip to Buenos Aires, buy drinks for my fellow mongers and include a donation, hopefully generous if the sales are good, to the WSG Charity Fund.
On another but related subject the hobby is not an inexpensive activity and to support it I plan on making another video in Buenos Aires in November/Late December, called "Living Abroad". The subject of the video are people that relocate outside their native country, either permanently, part time or just buy a second home or make an investment. It's sort of a "how to" video - how to rent/buy an apartment, get a residence visa, get work, medical facilities, tips on the cost of living, all very much like the Living in Argentina section of the WSG. There is a similar program on the Fine Living Television Network called "Radical Sabbatical" and a site called http://www.internationalliving.com covers this same subject.
If you are interested in appearing in this television program "Living Abroad - Argentina" please send me a private message. Filming is scheduled for late November, early December of this year.
Aside from having the fame (not I'm afraid fortune) of appearing in this program, if you have a business or activity in Buenos Aires you would like to promote (Saint are you reading this) this is a great opportunity to get the word out.
Hope it is a success for you. Good luck finding Americans here that are motivated on starting businesses. All the Americans i have met here either came here to hobby and just live a semi-retired life or live here part time and work in the USA. I really haven't come across too many motivated Americans down here. One of the dudes I know makes fun of me because he says I'm giving those Americans here just goofing off a bad name. Ha, ha.
Seriously though. I wouldn't have any interest in being in your video. Thanks though. I just received an email today from a legit company that noticed all my real estate stuff and asked if I would be interested writing a book not just about real estate but basically the entire journey, budgets, navigating around the city, starting a business and the maze it entails. I don't think I have time for it but I type damn fast. I can type as fast as i think and I kept a daily journal during my trips around the world so I might do it. I guess some lady just did some half ass book and sold it as an e-book and made like $50,000 so maybe it's worth doing.
Anyway, more real estate news. I looked at 4 more apartments today for a client of mine that doesn't live here. He wants to purchase an apartment like some of you do. Prices are still going up from when I purchased just a few weeks ago. I think some prices are not justified and they'll sit on the market a long time. There were some decent apartments in Barrio Norte close to Recoelta I saw going for $1,300 per sq. meter when that is about what I paid for prime real estate in Recoleta. No reason a property in Barrio Norte (unless it is in pristine condition) should be selling that high. I think some owners would take lower offers now.
I'm dealing with more brokers now and they are starting to all tell me that more and more locals are buying higher end properties which is a good sign.
If you are coming down here to work just make sure you have a good business plan. One where everyone says, "that's a great idea". Lots of people in town have good ideas I'm sure but they don't have the capital funding to carry them out so if you have someone that is intelligent, has some money to invest and willing to take a chance on their idea...they can do ok if they work hard. Before you move here though, keep in mind that it's DAMN hard to make money here. I'm still not making money but just started marketing my website and got my first booking for next week and starting to get many emails from vacation rental sites around the world now.
Today, when I was in a coffee shop pitching my business plan to a local realtor, a lady at the table next to me was overhearing our conversation. She apologized for listening in but she said she found it interesting, she had a 2nd apartment she wanted to rent out and she is going to add it on my site. That's exactly what I plan on doing in another few months. Going after the wealthy local market with 2nd homes that want to make money. So far, all is going as planned.
Have a good weekend all.
Come on Saint, you met me (once) and I am here working full-time plus whatever extra work I can get my hands on. Isn't that motivation? Shit, I should be the Motivation Poster Boy. Just ask anyone.
PS if anyone needs a cook for dinner parties I am awesome. 25 pesos an hour.
So how fast do you type, anyway? I can hit 80 wpm sober. Is that good? My sister Denise ("Dump Truck") is the fastest I've ever seen and she says 95 wpm.
Jesus,
Now you guys are going to argue about who is the better typist? Cook? Better motivated?
You guys will brag about anything! It's one thing to argue about the price of pussy. Most of us CARE about the price of pussy. But who can type faster??? You two are just too damn competitive
I wasn't bragging when I was posting. And I assume DH is joking around. I type 150 words a minutes or maybe a few more. How the heck else do you think I can type these long reports so quickly. No way in hell I'd do it if I typed slow. Most of them take me just a few minutes to type up.
Today is gorgeous out. It's starting to warm up here. I looked at 4 more apartments today. I looked at 2 AMAZING properties. One is one block away from one of my apartments. I wish I had more money because if I did I would buy it. Fantastic potential. I'm looking for a client and I will advise him to buy it. There are still some good properties out there but you have to dig a little. The one that I saw was about $1,000 per sq. meter which is good for Recoleta.
Also met with an investment banker that wants to buy 20-30 properties here!!! We'll see how that goes.
Something that sucks is that I was so busy I didn't call to register for November's classes at the school I went to last month and they are full for November AND December! I will have to look at either staying with my tutor or looking for another school. Oh well. I'm learning alot though. I still think it will take more than 1 year to get fluent because I don't have time to study other than in class. Maybe I'll take November off to work.
P.S. I really think JamesBond69 should base his documentary on following Dickhead for one week. No doubt that he has a more exciting life here than I do. I actually would pay money to watch that video. I wish that I had the money that DH does to chase girls every other night. I'd also LOVE to wake up at 2 PM everyday. My life is dull here compared to his. It's just an ordinary type of experience for me. Only difference is that I'm working about 16 hours a day now and I'm making a fraction of what I was making but I really am excited everyday and I love my job now. I think JB69 should follow DH around for a week. They probably both could make some money off that video.
Is that its not ego driven.
Saint if I had your money I would throw my money away. 150 wpm = Jesus Fucking Christ. Dumptruck will be really pissed.
Oh wait a minute, I am already throwing my money away.
But James Bond posted once he weighed 301 pounds and if that is true he could never follow me around for a week. Why doesn't Saint just pay me to follow me around for a week?
OK enough bullshit for now.
Path Finder
10-29-04, 02:58
All, thanks for all the information. You have written quite a bit about living in Recoleta. However, it is very expensive. Other areas seem interesting, but don't have much information. Would any of you recommend living in Bario Norte, San Telmo or Palermo?
Dickhead,
You have more money than I do. (Based on our conversation at dinner one night). That is the honest truth. We just have different methods of spending our money. As I have posted several times, I'm NOT some rich guy. I've always been the type that has made alot but I spend what I make. I kind of live life for today. Always have and probably always will. Still, I am thinking about the future.
I risked everything to start these businesses. Sometimes I think in life you have to take the risk. I cashed out most of my 401k, sold my house, sold my car, sold all my worldly possessions, and borrowed some money to do what I'm doing with my real estate company and travel agency.
Please don't delude others into thinking I can throw money away. I really can't. As I mentioned, I wish I could party every other night. I can't. I have to work hard to grow these businesses. It's 7:45 am and I'm up working. That is a realistic life for me now.
HappyGoLucky
10-29-04, 15:25
Saint,
Regarding, "I love my job now,"
Some would say that's all that's important. Money is great, but if ya hate yer job life gets pretty dreary. ..
I read once that the two professions with the highest level of job dissatisfaction are lawyering and dentistry even though the money is great.
Speaking of big bucks, I really wanted to rent one of your apartments but they're a little beyond my price range. So, back to trudging through the Clarin. Woe is me...
PS 150 words a minute???! You may type faster than I read. I think you missed your calling as a concert pianist!
Path Finder, I live in Barrio Norte and find it to be excellent. It is maybe 25% less rent-wise than Recoleta (I just pulled that number out of my ass) but would be more expensive than San Telmo and Palermo. San Telmo and Palermo have some areas that could be considered dicey, especially at night, but not tremendously so. Barrio Norte is good because it is walking distance to both Recoleta and the downtown clubs (at least for me). I had originally intended to live in the Microcenter but I think Barrio Norte ended up being a better choice even if it was sort of an accident. Another neighborhood you might want to consider is Caballito. A lot of the people I know who live there really like it. Last year I lived in Congresso and I enjoyed it too, but it's a lot longer walk to the clubs (do-able, though).
Hope that helps.
HappyGoLucky,
You are 100% dead on target. Money isn't everything. I've always had great jobs but I found I wasn't happy unless I was traveling or outside of the USA. I was gone every two weeks or so. None of it was business travel. As far as all my apartments being too pricey.....go back and do a search. We are adding some great properties in the next few weeks. Some of them are affordable. Not all of them are luxury properties.
Dickhead is absolutely right. Barrio Norte is less expensive than Recoleta by at least 25%. In some posh areas of Recoleta it is 40%+ than Barrio Norte. Barrio Norte is a good neighborhood that I see growing tremendously in the next 4-5 years. Lots of new construction and that usually drives more restaurants, cafes, dry cleaners, supermarkets, etc. Personally, I'd never live in the Microcentro area. Too seedy.
I bought another apartment today for my client. I'm excited for him as it's a 2 bedroom and many people are looking to rent 2 bedroom apartments. There are lots of great areas of BA. Take a look at the "Neighborhood Map" on my website to see the different areas. Good luck all.
http://www.apartmentsba.com/system/contenido.php?id_cat=65
OttoGraham
10-30-04, 00:16
Just pondering the "where to live" question of Buenos Aires.
When I've been there, the one place that really impressed me as a place to live is San Isidro, which is a cheap 15 minute commuter train ride NW of Centro. The park area around the train station there is a great slice of Argentine suburbia. The whole area reminded me of a the positive caracature of southern California.
Just a thought. Anybody share it?
Gotta get back to composing my guide for newbies now. The slow website ate my latest installment - seems I have to draft everything in Microsoft Word in order to make sure it post properly on the site.
Uncle Otto
HappyGoLucky
10-30-04, 00:45
I agree with Otto about San Isidro; it's a beautiful tranquil area with lots of large houses and estates. I took the Train de la Costa to Tigre a few times on my last trip and was struck by the stark contrast in social class between people on the Costa train and those that take the train from the Retiro. The Costa train was a much more upscale, quiet, air conditioned ride with a lot of folks who actually live in San Isidro. Some of the folks I talked to on the train (all of whom seemed fascinated by the presence of an estadounidense on the train- I guess it's uncommon) told me that the best private schools are in San Isidro and that half the day subjects are taught in Spanish and the remaining half day they are taught in English; so every student becomes fluent in English before graduating high school. There are also some great beach areas in San Isidro where one can view the "beautiful people", but my favorite spots are in Tigre. One can get on a taxi boat near the train station in Tigre and cruise all day around the delta trying different watering-holes, exploring islands, laying on beaches, and chowing down churrasco in some very funky beach-type restaurants. It's a good place to spend time with a few of your favorite chicas!
San Isidro is really nice. There are some GREAT properties out there. I know several professionals that have huge homes out there.
Also, I'm still continuing to talk to guys that are dreaming and think somehow they can move down here and work for someone else (i.e. a big company, an employee, etc.) and make good money. One guy I talked to told me how he was the best computer programmer, etc. and planned to make money here. They have those here. Unless you have clients in the USA and are making U$S then you better rethink your plans.
Again, to give you an idea on salaries. One of my friends is an executive at a major corporation in town. She has been working there 10+ years. She is the CFO of the company. Wanna know how much she makes? She makes 8,000 pesos per month. ($2,695 per month or $32,328 per year). That is someone that was born here, speaks PERFECT english and Spanish. If they only are paying her $32,328 per year why would they pay you more? She has several post graduate degrees and a lot of experience and the ceiling is only around $32,000 US per year. I also have met several people here that are trained in the USA (some at Ivy League schools) and they can't make money here so they are moving to the USA, Europe and Canada. Don't get me wrong...she lives a great life on that but I keep talking to guys /girls that are just moving down that think it's easy to make money. The first two casualties are moving back home next month already.
Good luck.
Thought I`d share a quote for some dental work I`ve been given. For three extractions, a crown, and three implants, around 1,500 dollars. The dentist was recommended by some friends down here in Mar del Plata and so far the work has been A1 quality. Not sure how this compares to US prices but its MUCH cheaper than in europe.
I´m also buying an apartment in MdP; for business and social reasons I prefer living here than in BsAs. 29K US for a really nice, modern, 1 bed place in a `barrio muy lindo`. Has a sea view and 10 min walk from the centre. Weather is improving here every day and the summers are great. Not for everyone for sure but it suits me fine.
"If they only are paying her $32,328 per year why would they pay you more? She has several post graduate degrees and a lot of experience and the ceiling is only around $32,000 US per year. Don't get me wrong...she lives a great life on that but I keep talking to guys /girls that are just moving down that think it's easy to make money. The first two casualties are moving back home next month already."
Saint,
I am glad you posted this info as a service to others who are thinking of packing up and moving to BA. Please don't take this the wrong way. You seem like a highly motivated guy who knows what he wants and hopefully this post will spur a meaningful disscussion. But I have known and talked to a lot of guys who wanted to move and work in Mexico. Not exactly the same as BA, but they share much in common - low wages and an under-performing economy. And even harder to get a legal work permit there. I always ask them - WTF are you thinking!? Don't you realize that 3 million people leave their country each year to come and work in America and make their fortune? I hate to beat the "All-American" drum, but when it comes to economic opportunity and the ability to make a buck, no place compares to the US and there are about a billion people on this planet who would gladly exchange their citizenship for yours.
It sounds like you are having an "adventure" in Argentina. That is a good thing. Everything is new, different, exciting. And you have the chance to prove you can accomplish something in a different culture, with a different language and under a different set of rules. I tried that myself several years ago in Spain. Moved there - albeit part-time and studied in a Spanish business school, with a nice apartment and a new circle of friends. Probably the most exciting thing I have ever done. But I quickly realized that if I wanted to start a new business, the US was the place to do it. Yes, I could survive in Barcelona, but if I was going to work that hard why not make big bucks in the US and have the opportunity to live where and how I want?
Judging from your numerous posts, it appears that you like the good things in life. You talk about how “picky” you are with chicas, that you like to dress well, live well. You constantly write about going out with “guys from good families” and super-models. You clearly aspire to reach a certain level of wealth and status. Good for you. But then you tell us that you hope to someday earn $30k US with your business if you’re lucky???? Huh? Does not compute! Even if you plan to spend the rest of your life there, your options are forever limited. If at age 50 or 60 you decide to move back to the US – or Barcelona, Paris, London, where ever – you can forget about buying a house, much less living the good life.
Some of the guys you say move down to BA and are taking it easy – they have already made their money in the US. Far better to earn it here and spend it in Argentina or Mexico than attempt to do it the other way around! I always assumed from your posts that you had already "made it" economically and all the rest was just a diversion to keep busy and bring in a few extra bucks.
Anyway, I hope things go well for you and it certainly IS an adventure. I just hope others think twice before trying the same thing. Then again maybe I’m just too conservative . . .
Peace, -P
Path Finder
10-30-04, 14:45
Thanks for the input on where to live. San Isidro sounds interesting, but I am a city boy. I have been to Barrio Norte and I like it. Within Barrio Norte -any suggestions. For example, would you recommend living past Cordoba Street. Where is it not safe to live? Any areas that you think will really appreciate.
Thanks for the guidance.
HappyGoLucky
10-30-04, 15:10
Domino made some good points, e.g. I "imagine" Argentinean firms in the oil exploration and ancillary industries are making a shit load of money right now: low costs, big bucks. I also imagine anyone who can export from Argentina into hard currency countries would be doing nicely.
For example, soy bean farmers in Argentina have made a killing over the last year and a half due to the devaluation and the export market.
It's also interesting to note that Argentina is a world leader in natural gas transportation, e.g. passenger cars. The US is way behind the curve on that one, ecologically speaking....
I never said "I hope to make $30k if I'm lucky". Read very carefully. I said that you can't expect to make much more than that "being an employee". There is a big difference. As I posted numerous times you MUST start your own business (in case you didn't notice I started two businesses) or buy a successful one to make a lot of money here. I never said I wanted to only make $30k. I plan on making much more than that. In fact, I think in a few years I could be making more than I was making in the USA. I obviously didn't move here to make money. But if I plan to live here for a very very long time so I need to make money to support myself and live comfortably.
Yes, I've always loved the finer things in life and probably always will. I'm one of those people that worked hard, made a lot of money but then I spent a lot of money. You do the math. I've made over 40 international trips in the last 3 years. None for business. All vacations.
Honestly, things are going better than planned. I just got the keys to my 2nd apartment last week and have been working like a mad man to get it renovated, all the furniture delivered, phone/cable/high-speed internet, re-doing all the electrical work in the apartment, new lighting, etc. It will be ready November 6th and I have it rented out already November 8th until mid-December. That is a sight-unseen with no pictures on my site booking. I think I have a pretty good reputation here in the real estate community now.
Anyway, I just got back from the apartment. Been working all day with one of my employees since 8 AM. I'm tired. I really love this challenge though of building two businesses in South America. I NEVER had this passion for working in the USA. Honestly, I'm not just motivated about making money here but I love these businesses. Unlimited potential to grow.
Domino,
You are missing the point. Sure, there are tons of companies here making tons of money. That doesn't mean anything. They could be making millions. The CEO I know works for a company that is an international company that makes millions and millions of $$$. The whole point is that they don't have to pay people high salaries. If they don't have to and no one else is...then why would they do it?
As far as you being surprised...I've ALWAYS posted I'm not some rich guy. I've always been an executive with a good life but having a good life usually costs a lot. I'm not one of those people that thinks I have to leave millions for my kids. I'm not a senior citizen like many think.
I'm trying to help people that are thinking of moving here. That's why I'm posting. Try to get something out of them. Many moving down here or planning to have told me my posts have helped alot. The other day I spent about an hour on the phone with a guy that is moving here. I can't repeat it enough. Have a game plan if you are coming here planning to make money and not already coming with a ton of retirement money or savings.
I'm meeting a lot of foreigners (mostly from Europe and the USA). One thing is common. Most are coming here with not a lot of money and thinking they can survive here without a lot of money. Simply put, you can't. I think Andres is in a good position to talk more about this but it doesn't take a local to tell you that to live a good life here it's not so cheap. There are no guarantees. I could fall flat on my ass. That's how business here is. Honestly though, I think if you have a good business plan, realistic expectations, work damn hard you can make money in South America.
All the expats so far that I have met, I haven't met one yet that had a good business plan. I have met a few that are working over the internet and making U$S so that is ok. I'm talking people that moved here to live long-term or indefinitely. I've met quite a few because I'm heavily involved in tourism and especially real estate. I'm finding there are a TON of guys that LOVE BA and want to move here or are planning to. Many have ideas for businesses but honestly I have met with about 8 or 9 of them since I moved here and their business plans were horrible. I'm not saying that I know jack about succeeding in BA but it doesn't take a Harvard Business grad to read a business plan and tell you if it will succeed or not.
Generally, if you are serious about moving here and you plan to work or start a business. Do this. Try imagining going to a bank in the USA or your family or good friends and see if they are willing to loan you money to start your business. If the answer is no then re-think your business plan. Keep going back to the drawing board until they start to tell you it's a good idea.
I'm not a rocket scientist, but before I moved down here I knew I had to make u$s and spend pesos. The two best sectors I thought to make u$s are tourism and real estate. My premium properties are not really marketed to the WSG crowd guys that don't want to spend that much money. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. In fact, I wish I was more like that sometimes. My premium properties are clearly not aimed at them but I am adding lower priced options. The majority of my business now is from the vacation sites I have paid to advertise on and people doing a search on Google for "luxury apartments Buenos Aires" or "apartments Buenos Aires internet". So far, I'm coming #1 on both those searches.
I think for those serious about surviving down here. Real estate is a good play for you. If you buy in a good area and furnish it very well and it is managed and marketed well. You can make a high rate of return. I've wanted to move down here since my very first trip (see Saint trip reports from May 2002). I decided to take a chance (even though people told me I was crazy to lease 3 apartments), and invest time and money learning about the business and building my networking base. So far, that has paid off well. Being involved with purchasing 5 apartments in 2.5 months opens a lot of eyes here. I have been involved with $410,000 US in property exchanging hands since I moved here. When these people are making a % off the total amount of the property (realtors, lawyers, etc.) you gotta imagine they are happy campers. My goal is to finish 2004 with Apartmentsba.com involved in close to $1 million in buy/sale transactions. It all depends on a few clients that are on the fence of how many properties they want to buy.
Regarding taxis. People can tell you how they take buses and it's a real cost savings, but honestly if you are working you won't have time to take buses if you are hopping all around town. I tried one day and just took a taxi. It's not worth the time for me. Even taking about 7 taxis a day. I'm only spending about $250 US a month on taxis. I do walk alot but most of the time I'm working up till the last minute until the next meeting and just jump in the taxi. Much easier.
Hope this helps.
P.S. If you don't like my posts, find them uninformative or just plain boring please just skip over them and don't read them.
OK, looks like I was off a few thousand$. With so many very long posts, this was not easy to find. Here is your exact post . . .
". . . As far as making over $80,000 US here. I don't think I'll have to worry about that for a long long time. If i make more than that, I'll gladly pay whomever whatever taxes is required. I'd be so happy to make that here. Honestly, I'd be really happy to make $50,000 - $60,000 US here someday"
So I stand corrected. It wasn't 30k but 50k. And I'm sure that there are plenty of WSG Forum members who would be happy to make $50-$60k someday as well. I don't want to rain on $50k as being nothing. But I have done the math. It's going to be hard to take many more of those 40 international vacations from here forward.
Good Luck, -P
I start my "remote advice" in this section...
San Isidro
Undoubtably, San Isidro is the luxuriest suburb of Buenos Aires, well maintained, fully restorted of services and such. Places such as La Horqueta look like any other high-scale neighborhood for rich people.
However, San Isidro hosts luxury neighborhoods as well as slums, and that Makes San Isidro one of the most dangerous places to live. Kidnappings range to 50/60 a year, only compared to those at Quilmes and Lomas de Zamora.
Salaries:
Clarin informed a month ago that executives making ar$15000+/mo are very rare. With ar$8000, you can maintain well a family of 2, but no that many perks and extras (not many trips to the US, for instance). As many pointed out before, being an employee isn't that enticing in BA, unless you are being sent by a multinational firm.
People working for oil&gas companies make pretty decent money, but I guess seldom above ar$5000/mo (at least for a project manager).
Wines:
I believe that Argentina produce slightly better wines than Chile, and for sure a wider variety. However, Chileans knew how to market them in the US, while we are still waking up on that matter.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Thanks for the post Andres. Good luck up North amigo. You are absolutely right about La Horqueta. I'm starting to list properties from there on my website and most places look amazing. Most of the people I know that have great jobs or married well live in the suburbs in big houses. They prefer the quiet life I guess. Personally, I'd never live outside of Recoleta, Barrio Norte or Palermo. I love this area too much. In fact, I think I'll move into one of the apartments I bought next year when my pre-paid lease runs up in August 2005. I really LOVE that apartment on French Street and I love that area.
Andres, I read that article you were talking about in Clarin. My friend that makes 8,000 pesos a month has a husband that is also an executive that also makes about 8,000 per month. They are in their mid-40's. I think her husband works for an oil and gas company so that gives you an idea of what an executive makes here. She told me that during the 1:1 days she was in a dream world. That is how she was able to buy a few apartments in Recoleta and now rents them out. On the downside, she lost about $70,000 US when the banks collapsed here 3 years ago.
I never saw the question about the wines but I totally agree with Andres. I'm not a big wine drinker but I see that Chile has done a GREAT job of marketing their products over the years. Argentina is behind on a lot of that type of stuff. The economy is Chile is soooo much stronger. When I was there a few months ago I was amazed at just how expensive some things were.
I met an American woman that started exporting wine to the Cayman Islands a few months ago. I guess she said there was good money in it but she isn't doing it anymore which leads me to believe the money wasn't that good. She said she had big crates shipped to Miami then on to Cayman Islands. Not sure about how the income stream is but I have no interest in import/export. Too many things that can happen to your product along the way.
Prof,
I stand by my post that I'd be more than happy to make u$s 60,000 /year here. (Of course, I'd love to make a lot more than that and I plan to but I'd be happy to make the 60k for the short term) Also, this doesn't count the money I make with my own properties. I'm going to try to stick all that back into retirement savings that I cashed out to buy them and also a loan to buy another. The way I figure it though...if I keep them full I can have them paid off in about 5 or 6 years. I'd still be fairly young and then after that it's all pure profit.
I really loved traveling. I'm glad I did it while I was younger. I do plan to travel more in the future. For now, I want to grow these businesses so I can enjoy the things I love doing like traveling. As I start making money I plan on traveling more in and around Argentina. I'm sure there are other adventures for me out there. I hope to travel with a new friend I made around Brazil in April 2005.
u$s 60,000 yearly is 180,000 pesos a year or 15,000/month. That is more than enough to live a luxury lifestyle in BA doing pretty much what you want to do. If you already have a property purchased free and clear and you're making 15,000 pesos/month you can save for the future, eat out every night, tons of entertainment and travel and you'll still be fine. I try to imagine every peso as a dollar now that I live here but I admit it's still difficult to do that. The other day was the first time I bought some new clothes and although I probably didn't need it, I justified it isn't as much as the USA. Oh well. I looked at my Quicken last week as my 2 month anniversary of moving here just passed and I spent more than the first month even though I told myself i was cutting back. I spent u$s 2,714 or 8,006 pesos. (I log every peso I spend--literally).
Without going into details I spent a little more on entertainment. Hobbying much less but going out with my Porteno friends and I have picked up the tab a few times. More on taxis. More on cell phone (can be attributed to my business). I didn't include ANY business/apartment expenses. This figure is only on personal expenditures. I spent u$s 400 going to Uruguay which also added on to the increase. I'm spending a lot more than I thought I would on dry cleaning as I have to dress up now that I have so many meetings daily. Spent much more on my "dining category" as I'm hobbying less but taking girls out to dinner much much more. Spent about the same on groceries. Spent more on my "Misc:gifts" category. I've been invited to several dinner parties where it's customary to bring a bottle of wine so I've bought 5 bottles of wine in the last month. I bought a bottle of wine for my doorman where I live and for the doorman at another building of my other apartment.
I'm sure that my 3rd month budget will go WAY down (10/15/04 - 11/15/04) . I am working a ton so not going out too much, have done zero hobbying, no travel, eating in cheaper restaurants, not sure if I'm taking Spanish classes this month so it will be interesting to see how much month #3 ends up being.
It has been great making local friendships. Really take the time to make some friendships with good Portenos. I'm a very independent person and have done almost everything myself with my apartments. I purposely wanted to do things myself so I could learn how to do things. I bought all my furniture myself, did all the real estate stuff myself, set up utilities and changes like that. I have employees that can do it but since I'm doing it as part of my business I had to learn. I'm glad I did.
I guess I'm seriously thinking of writing a book now during November/December. That company offered me 40% of any sales so I'm thinking about it. I'll see. More later....I'm waiting for my amigovia to come over.. Chau.
Ok, king's X. How about a break from the second guessing and parade rain? At least long enough to answer a serious question from one who is just taking the plunge, betting the farm, following that dream. I fall under the category of running an internet business that pays out in US dollars and a new import/export company for niche goods from Argentina into the US which I've just smoothed out the transit rough spots on. My business has been wine and I'm looking forward to poking around once living in Argentina for prospects there. Probably marketing, not exporting.
And to those people who didn't have a plan or the plan didn't work out, well this is how we learn in life and I'll bet they've had an adventure they'll never forget. Probably not wasted experience in any case.
I'm almost 2 months to the day away from departing the somewhat tarnished old USA for BA, an intermediary apartment set up courtesy of Saint's new enterprise - thank you Saint! - and an air ticket for January 1st to BA. Nice way to start the New Year I thought.
So here's the question: I had planned to really narrow the possessions down to a few suitcases and short of clothes, creature comforts, necessary paperwork and art work just buy what I need in Buenos Aires. But now as a result of the import business I have a broker and she tells me that she can ship my "cargo" to Buenos Aires instead of a bunch of extra boxes at the airport or trying to become a "known shipper" with the airlines (which is really reserved for big business). Does anyone know what happens at the BA airport and customs when you go to claim boxes of used condition personal effects? Do they try to hammer you for duty? If they do, is it expensive? If it wasn't prohibitive I might try to ship some stereo equipment and computer (to use 'til it burns up) and more easily packed gear to set up an apartment. Any advice appreciated.
OttoGraham
10-31-04, 10:21
Wine: If you read Wine Spectator and other trade magazines, you'll learn that plenty of high-end Argentine wine is already being exported to the US. However, the real money is to be made in bargain brands under US$12 a bottle. Go into any wine retailer in the US and you'll see several varieties of Argentine reds. Not seen a white, though.
San Isidro: Interesting comments, Andres! It makes sense that the most kidnappings would take place there. When Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed banks, he replied, "Because that's where the money is." Are real estate prices in San Isidro as high as in Recoleta? (Stay warm, Andres!)
British money: People don't realize it, but it built Argentina's 20th century infrastructure, especially the railroads. One hundred years ago Argentina had a per-capita income almost as high as the United States. Even 60 years ago this may have been true. Ah, how socialism changes things!
SteveC: From what people have told me about their experiences, getting dental work done by a top dentist in Argentina can pay for the entire cost of a vacation there. Since prices for dental work anywhere are mainly labor costs, and the cost of labor in Argentina is maybe 25% of what it is in the US, it doesn't surprise me you got such a good bargain on your work. Just choose your dentist carefully, of course.
Domino,
Thanks for the nice words. The nice emails and PM's I've received from people has been really great. I'm a pretty confident guy as it is but it's really great to read words of encouragment and congratulations. I've never failed in any business venture so far so if I did this will be the first. (I hope not!). The business plan is solid though. I have yet to meet one person (local or American) that hasn't been positive about it.
Still, never really accept what the locals tell you. As I mentioned before, the locals will pretty much tell you what you want to hear when it comes to business. Most of these expats that came down here with their business ideas came down because their friends, "girlfriends", family, lawyer down here told them "it's a GREAT idea...you can do it here and make 'lots' of money!". (a) Keep in mind that their idea of "lots of money" and yours is totally different. (b) why are you listening to them unless they are in that specific industry that you are interested in. (i.e. you want to open a dry cleaner and your sister that sells empanadas is telling you it would work). (c) people with a vested interest are telling you to do it because they perceive they will have a direct benefit.
I remember this nice guy that wanted to open a business here. He was listening to his "amigovia" (who by the way was a real b*tch to him.....why he put up with her shit I don't understand). Example: he took her shopping one day and bought her so many items that the bag broke that he was carrying for her. When it broke, instead of her trying to find another bag she asks him what he is going to do. He gets mad and tells her to get another bag for him. She yells at him. They ask me for my opinion on who is right. Clearly, I told them the American guy is. She has NO right to get upset and should have tried to find another bag. He was spending his money buying her things. This is the kind of girl this guy was taking financial advice from.
He told me his business plan over dinner and I shot it down right away. His girlfriend (and her lawyer friend) were telling him how great of an idea it is. Even though I told him it would never work, his girlfriend's lawyer friend set up a meeting with some import/export officer. I was super busy but as a favor I went to sit in on the meeting. I remember thinking to myself that this guy was nuts to be with this girl and even nuttier to try the business he wanted to do (IMPORT expensive shoes here).
No offense "Import Shoe Guy" if you're reading this but I think many people can learn a valuable lesson from what you went through.
And Domino, as to your question about the local wealthy and if the Miami banks are full of their cash. The answer is yes. I wouldn't call my friend that makes 8,000 pesos a month wealthy. She is an executive and does decent but remember that she is an employee. She won't get wealthy by being an employee. She is making more now from the property that she bought in Recoleta (small modest apartments) and is renting out to tourists/businessmen. Property ownership is the common thing many of these people have in common that have money. Every person I know here that I would consider wealthy owns 2nd or 3rd or 4th apartments that they use as rental income. Every one.
The wealthy just got wealthier during the crash and they welcomed the idea of a free floating peso. The wealthy with alot of money knew it would happen. Most have friends in the government. I know at least a dozen people that got a phone call a few nights before the devaluation. They were advised to move their funds out if they didn't already. All the people I know already moved their money to Miami. Some of them to Uruguay. After the crash they become ridiculously even more wealthy.
Many people converted their offshore cash (u$s) back into pesos when it went over 3.50 pesos: u$s 1. I talked to this money transfer firm that I use. Great people that have been doing this for 25 years. Guess when they had the highest u$s transfer activity? You guessed it. Right after the devaluation. They had millions and millions of dollars flowing back into Argentina. To give you an understanding how this works. You have a local wealthy guy named Jose. Jose knew about the crash so he sends his savings of $2 million into Miami. The devaluation happens. The exchange rate is now 3.5 to 1. Jose takes $1 million of his money in Miami and uses the company I know. He wires the money into a swiss bank account of the company I use. They take 1% of the money ($10,000). Jose is still getting back 3,465,000 pesos based on an exchange rate of 3.5. The cash is brought to him. He puts it into his safe deposit box. He still has $1 million in Miami, and now has more than he started out to begin with since 1 peso= $1 before.
I met a few people like Jose. Instead of putting it in safe deposit boxes many of them bought property. They didn't trust having all that cash around. Now they have property which they can't lose. This is the reason why many many wealthy people here have so many properties. My goal is to capitalize on this fact and in addition to becoming the largest property management company of foreign owed property someday. I will have a division that only goes after these properties. I think I posted how one day last week I was in a coffee shop in Recoleta pitching my business plan to another realtor company about them listing on my site. This wealthy lady (like Juan above) purchased properties. She overheard our conversation and wanted to list her property with us.
Soon I will put ads in the Clarin, Buenos Aires Herald and other local publications. All this might sound easy but it's not. Remember that I started this process in real estate over 2.5 years ago. It's starting to pay off now. I have a client reference sheet of over 200 people that rented apartments from me. I also have references from other people I have done business here in the real estate community and I use the same lawyer as many of them. I'm finding that most people here aren't organized and can't market properly so if you can and you have a good idea you can capitalize on it. One guy I met asked me why I'm so generous with my information. He asked if I was worried that others might copy it. I'm not worried. I'm 100% sure others will try to follow my business model and in fact, I welcome it. The same thing happened in the USA with my other businesses. If they are doing that, then it proves that I am doing something right. This isn't an easy business. It's a trust business and a reputation business. The key is getting a good enough reputation in the biz to where you have guys wiring up to $100,000 US to you without seeing the actual properties themselves. That is what is happening now.
Many guys are emailing me asking for my advice. A big newspaper in the USA did a story and I was in it. That generated a LOT of emails to me asking for advice. Now I got another email from one of the biggest newspapers in the USA curious about doing a story on my journey here. My best advice is free advice (the other advice I now charge...ha, ha). Don't give up on your dreams. Follow your hearts and don't let anyone ever tell you that you can't do something. Don't listen to people that have no experience in doing business here or tell you that doing this or that is not smart. Just because they wouldn't do it doesn't mean that it's not smart. Don't be afraid of getting into a totally new business. However, take time to learn about it. I had ZERO experience in real estate when I first starting leasing apartments and renting them out to businessmen and tourists. You MUST make a risk to get ahead sometimes. You will never get ahead in life without taking some kind of risk.
It's amazing how these people are so dependent on salaries. I'm a marketing guy and would take a % of sales instead of a set salary any day of the week. I offered one of my employees the opportunity to make 50% of whatever sales he brought in. That is HUGE for here. He was excited but then yesterday he said that he would rather have a higher salary and a lower commission rate. That is fine by me but I tried explaining the principle that he will never get ahead on this system. So instead of 50% of whatever he brings in with a very low salary, I'll pay him maybe 25% plus a decent (for BA standards) salary. This is the mindset here. They want something that's guaranteed.
Decamerone
11-01-04, 20:08
Dear Fellows,
Interesting discussion with Saint holding the initiative, as ever. Now he is stronger than ever, it seems.
One thing strikes me though. Why only act on the real estate market when the stock market is peaking? During the first six month of 2004 index raised 90%. Argentina has a historically splendid opportunity to increase its market shares on important export markets and engage their industry in new ones. Argentina can also attract foreign capital investments and tourism (as Saint has predicted).
Saint has as his major point that one has to take risks to some extent to succeed. Yes, and Saint has chosen his market. When we discuss Argentina and moneymaking, the real estate business has been the most profitable one during these years of crisis, but if we look further ahead, what then?
From my point of view Argentina is now so well integrated in the global economy (and society) that "artificial" instruments can not and will not be used in the macro economical policy. Argentina has already created modern values among females, an underestimated important fact. The norm to gain success/fulfil one's dream goes through studies at the university. The percentage that studies at the university is very high, even when compared to US/Canada and Western Europe. This is, however, as we have seen in Eastern Europe not enough. It is a necessary condition for growth, not a sufficient one. Conflicts within the Argentine society can escalate; yes that is a risk factor. But the foundation for both external and internal integration as well long term growth is laid.
Argentina don’t have to endure it’s so many and typical to the bitter end performances in either politics or economics. Argentina is no longer a piece in the Cold War. Argentina has been serious in keeping back inflation, perhaps the typical example in our time (serious to a fault?). The new monetary regime has continued the policy of price stability-even when growth rates have been as high as in China (near 10%)!
In my humble opinion, it seems that Argentina has entered a new stage in her development. She is a young nation in many ways, even if she was founded in the 1600th century. She is no longer afraid to face the challenges that the world put in front of her. The Official Story described this process already 1986. (Oscar winner for Best Foreign Film of the Year). However, the starting point may seem similar to other periods in Argentina’s history, especially for the common citizen. But there are striking differences, as I stated above.
Saint has developed a special niche for himself, with bravura. But he should not forget, at least in arguing, that the stock market probably is the most lucrative one in the long term perspective, especially considering the very low costs for engaging in it. And which with easiness you can withdraw from it, while rather the opposite is true for the real estate market.
Finally, I want to thank Saint for spending so much time and energy on the forum.
Hi Dominio (and others):
To answer your question, I want to create a niche but I also want to beat the "property gurus" here. Personally, I don't really think there are any that are doing a good job here. As I posted before, I find most realtors here uneducated. I'm working with the best, most organized, and ethical company in Buenos Aires but I still think compared to US realtors, overall most aren't as good. Case in point, I've referred some guys to various realtors and guys are still paying me my consulting fee to help them find a place. I think it's pretty evident that it's worth it to pay a few hundred dollars to make sure a property search gets done right. Still, realtors are a necessity because the premium properties are listed with realtors. In order to see them you have to use the realtor so right now there is no way around this. I want to eventually match buyers/sellers though and instead of each side paying a realtor 3% they each pay me 1% or 1.5%. That will probably be a year down the road though.
I've been crazy busy getting my apartments ready and I've been referring a lot of traffic to my clients properties too which makes me feel good. Just yesterday I got two new consulting clients that I'm helping with property searches. The honest truth is there are so many ways to get screwed here you have to know what you're doing.
As far as you not wiring $100,000 anytime soon, that is fine. (You also won't be making the % returns that some of these guys are making and will be making. ;) None of my clients are just foolish guys with some money to burn. ALL of these guys are educated, successful guys that understand the principle of a good investment and return on investment. The return on investment % don't lie in the property business. A few of my clients are actually in the real estate business so they truly understand the unique real estate opportunities here if you get set up properly.
_____________________
I just got out of a meeting. A real estate developer is flying me into Punta del Este in two weeks to help market some properties there. I'm excited about going there as I've heard so many nice things about the place. He is putting me up in some nice property he owns so it will be cool. I'll post what I find out on the scene in Punta del Este as I'll be there for a few days. I'll post anything interesting.
Also, I wanted to mention those that are moving here and having to change their phone lines. It's a pain in the ass! I needed to change my phone lines into a "controlled line" so that my guests can't make international/cell phone calls. I held on the line forever. Simply put, you can't get through to a live operator. I went to the main office this morning of Telecom. It's at Aguero and Las Heras. It opens at 9 AM and closes at 2 PM. Go there early and there will not be a line. I was the first one there. Amazing that once you get there the single girl working tells you that you have to go over to one of the phones and call a customer service rep! Some things in this town are ass backwards. You have to come to the phone company just to get on a phone to talk to a representative. At least I didn't have to hold long. I got the changes made and it takes 72 hours for changes to your phone line. Go with someone that speaks Spanish if you don't though. They ask you for all kinds of information. It won't be possible to make any changes unless you can answer their questions.
Hope this helps,
Saint
Domino,
I'm not trying to "second guess Latin America's old money". I'm trying to take what worked for them and helped them achieve wealth and improve upon it. People can say what they want about the "old money" here but I can tell you one thing after working with alot of these people. Simply put, they don't really trust one another. They would rather work with an American, or have an American rent their place over a local anyday of the the week. That is the God's honest truth.
Again, I'm not some rocket scientist. What I'm doing is not brain surgery. Like I said before, tourists were coming here when it was 1:1 and they are flocking here in droves now. This mess here will take many more years to unwind. As far as any crashes, I've seen property values in Recoleta at the bottom and they bounced very fast. I see them increasing over the next few years. I think Barrio Norte is the next big area of growth. All these new constructions will spawn new restaurants, cafes, retail centers, etc. You'll see property values start to go up in Barrio Norte in the next few years. I still feel property in Puerto Madero is MAJORLY overvalued. I think in 4-5 years Puerto Madero could be a viable area for rental properties but there is simply nothing there now.
I predict that property never gets as cheap as it was during the crash after the devaluation. More and more locals are buying property as they don't trust banks. I'm trying to get more of my clients to go higher end. There is a market out there that will pay higher prices for a luxury property. I helped a client get a GREAT deal on a 2 bedroom apartment yesterday. The offer was accepted and he should have it by the beginning of January. It will be an awesome 2 bedroom rental.
It IS possible to do business here in South America. Like I said before, don't let anyone tell you that your just dreaming. If you have a good game plan and work really hard you can succeed here. Every one is telling me I'm working too hard now. Maybe it's true but I did the same thing in the USA my first few years then I coasted and traveled around the world after the business started to make money. Starting any new business takes hard work. I still think in a few years I could be making more than I made in the USA. If that happens, I'll probably travel all throughout South America.
I'm so busy with the real estate business that I'm thinking of trying to sell back my % of the travel agency that I helped start. I only own a portion of the travel agency but I own 100% of my real estate company. It's clear to me to see that I'll make most of my money here in real estate.
Food & Wine
Except to meat and grains, many Argentine companies never needed to export their products, since they focused on local markets. Thus, they were never prepared to market their products abroad. For instance, the local consumption of wine took up most of the domestic production, so exporting was always a "second market".
Taking the specific example of wine, in the last decades the per capita consuption of wine has sharply declined, partly due to diminishing purchase power and partly to cultural changes (young people preferring beer, for instance). That forced producers to find external markets.
San Isidro
San Isidro is a whole county. It has hilly zones and lowlands which usually get flooded. Therefore, prices vary sharply.
Even in those sought-after places, prices per square meter vary. For instance, close to the San Isidro train station (if I remember well, Peru St) lies the commercial zone, where prices per square meter should be much higher than those at La Horqueta. However, lot sizes are much different (lots available in La Horqueta should have several hundred square meters each). Hard to compare.
Old investments in Argentina
If you pay particular attention, you will see mainly 2 old constuction waves: That of the golden years (1870-1930), which involve mainly luxury French castles in Recoleta and Barrio Norte, and the public buildings of the late 1940s - early 1950s (Retiro has many of them, and many public hospitals around BA). Don't assume that all good investments were done by Brits and that those who followed them (Peron, among others) just wasted public money.
Phone lines
It's hard to admit, but dealing with Argentine utilities sucks. It took me 2 months to shutdown my phone line, with several 30-minute calls to the infamous 112 and 2-3 visits to the Telefonica branches.
Puerto Madero
At the beginning, it was a good idea for renovating a seedy, abandoned part of town. But, however much investors tried to improve the area, the original configuration cannot change that easy. That is, the area was part of a port, a waterfront area set aside from the main city by dikes and dams. Therefore, transportation becomes very cumbersome and will be that way.
How many people take a colectivo to Puerto Madero? Few of them go through it. I guess that most visitors staying at the Hilton in Puerto Madero should always take a cab back to the hotel.
5 years ago, some investors wanted to do a state-of-the-art, 5-star hotel at the opposite side of Puerto Madero, but they backed from that idea. Location wasn't that good, but transportation really sucked and I guess that killed it (there are some 5-star hotels like the one at Moreno St and Piedras St, a not-that-nice part of San Telmo-Downtown, but with easy transportation). That's why I wouldn't bet that much in favor of Puerto Madero, at least as a residencial area.
Hope this helps,
Andres
As usual I agree with everything Andres says.
I just booked my ticket to Punta del Este today. For those that are interested there are several flights per day on various airlines. There weren't too many flight open for the dates that I needed in 2 weeks. Cost was only $150 US for a round-trip flight. Spending 2 nights/3 days there to evaluate real estate opportunities there for some clients. I'm looking forward to the trip.
Google is my new best friend. 70% of the emails I'm now getting are from Google searches. The others are from vacation rental sites I paid to list with. I just bought a 4 month ad to run in the Buenos Aires Herald online and the print edition. It will run every single day for 4 months. We'll see what kind of response that gets. It was more expensive than I thought it would be for South America. Oh well.
For those coming here on vacation, here is some news for you. They passed a new law that you have to wear seat belts while riding in the back of the taxi. Most people just ignore it but you get about 3/10 taxis that will ask you to put on the seatbelt. If you don't speak Spanish and the driver is telling you something. That is probably what he is telling you. Don't resist. Just do it. He gets a 50 peso fine if he gets caught. (Not that any police ever would pull you over).
Anyway, busier now then ever. Things are heading in the right direction. Later.
I've said it before but I'm repeating it because some of you on this board have referred real estate agents in the past that are making mistakes and costing people a LOT of money. I'm not going to mention any names but a guy on the WSG board that lives here referred this real estate agent to me a while back, and now I'm damn glad I didn't use him. This agent (initials JG) called my office to schedule a meeting with me because he wanted to do some business together and I was surprised during the meeting when I knew more about the laws here than he did. I lost all respect for him then and I have zero respect for him now.
Here is an email I received from one of his clients early this morning. (It's 6:30 am now). It's important to note that this guy isn't one of my clients. He never paid me a dime. I just knew that he used the realtor above and during the meeting I told him that he shouldn't charge the 2.5% tax. I told him that I researched this with several lawyers, an accountant, and the city. He still wanted to charge it. I truly believe the only reason he isn't charging this guy the 2.5% tax is because of that day in my office when I told him he is costing his clients a lot of money.
"Saint, You were absolutely right. After asking several real estate attorneys, and getting conflicting opinions, my realtor finally went to the tax office in the city hall and got the official answer: YOU DO NOT HAVE TO PAY ANY STAMP TAX. Further more he has a notory friend that will charge me only 2% to prepare the deed. I think all of this happened because of you, and I give you credit for making me aware of the situation, thus saving me considerable amount of money. Now my realtor is trying to find a way to get the city to reimburse his previous clients who already paid that stupid tax. I am not sure they will have any luck getting their money back. Once again, thank you very much, my friend".
Honestly, I can't believe this guy would use this realtor's "friend". Guys, buying property here is serious. MAKE SURE YOU USE A REPUTABLE REALTOR and LAWYER. Say that to yourself 100 times. This guy above almost paid $2,300 US for nothing. His realtor and lawyer were telling him that he had to pay this tax. I kept telling his realtor (who I'm not sure if he even has a license..and if he does it should be taken away from him) that he made a mistake charging all his clients this 2.5% stamp tax. Your first property is exempt. This turkey was almost bragging to me how his last client just bought a $170,000 apartment and he charged her the tax ($4,500 more). Do you think these clients will get their money back?? Get real. NO way they will ever see this money again. Too bad the realtor didn't know the laws and "go to the tax office to find out the laws" before he charged his clients thousands of dollars...huh? Wanna know the scary thing in all of this. The realtor still made a % of the total purchase price for this transaction. Wanna hear something even scarier? This guy would have been charged the 2.5% and he probably would have never known he got scammed.
Really, I don't care who you use to buy property. Just make sure you are using people that know the laws here and aren't going to rip you off. This is just one example out of dozens on how you can get ripped off. This realtor and the lawyer in any other developed country would have their license revoked. Here, they probably will just get a pat on the back. Sad. What's even sadder is this guy still trusts his realtor (and his "notory friend"). Be careful guys.
Saint
P.S. Those buying property here. Take the time to go back and read some of my posts in the Living in Argentina section. I have searched the internet and there is probably more useful information on buying property on WSG than there is on most sites on the Internet. Again, those that aren't interested in buying property here, skip over my posts.
P.S.S. Hell, in the interests of protecting others I'm going to mention the so called realtor's name that has been MISTAKENLY charging foreigners 2.5% extra to buy their apartments or houses. His name is Jorge G. If you bought a property with him in the past you might want to give him a call and tell him that you would like your thousands of dollars back because of his blunder.
__________________________
Update: At least two guys emailed me and told me that Jorge is a nice guy that probably didn't do this out of dishonesty. I'm not saying the guy is not honest. I'm not saying the guy is not a nice guy. There is a difference between being dishonest and being incompetent. He is a really nice guy. However, when I buy fruit at the local supermarket buying from a "nice guy" might be important. When I'm buying something like an apartment or a house I'd much rather have someone that is competent than a nice guy. Know what I mean? Of course I'd rather have both but that's a given.
The biggest problem I have in Buenos Aires doing business is that many people don't know the real answers to something. If they don't know, they guess instead of taking the time and money to find out the answer. Things just get done and it almost becomes a way of life without anyone knowing the true answer. In my office, he kept telling me that this is the way it's been done, and others do the same thing. I kindly explained to him that may be true but that's not the law. I run into people on a daily basis like him that don't know the real answer. I'm 100% sure if I didn't tell him the law, he would have been charging this over and over to his future clients. At least he knows the law now.
HappyGoLucky
11-05-04, 17:35
Hey Saint,
Your posts are great bud! Regarding the quote from your post below, I just wanna add that I DID get pulled over on Nueve de Julio one evening. My chica friend was driving her car and I think the police had some kind of checkpoint that night and were looking for drivers under the influence. I'm not exactly sure about the reason we got pulled over because my espanol has something to be desired, but that is the jist of what I understood. We didn't get a ticket/multa though, and it wasn't nearly as weird as getting pulled over in Cuba (yeah, I have all the luck), but that's another story...
"He [taxi driver] gets a 50 peso fine if he gets caught. (Not that any police ever would pull you over)."
Thanks HappyGoLucky. I'm glad you enjoy the updates. I'm working like a madman. This past week I haven't even had time to eat lunch. Oh well. It's nice sometimes to take a few minutes to rest and post an update. As far as you getting pulled over..I think that's rare. Some of my friends have cars here and they usually are driving crazy, drunk, whatever and I've never even seen any cops around.
They just passed that law about the seatbelts last week so I'm not sure when you were in town last. More and more taxis are asking me to fasten it though so obviously they are worried about the fine.
It's been unusually chilly today. I like it though. Just a few days ago I had to turn on my air-conditioner for the first time. However, it is great seeing all the hotties in their short skirts.
It's 9 PM on a Friday and I'm just getting out of a meeting. One of my American friends invited me to a party tonight but I can't make it because I thought the meeting would have ended much sooner. Everyone is saying I'm going to kill myself working this much but I figure it will pay off. I am starting to hit the wall though.
Finally starting making what I would consider decent money from the real estate company. I just got one of my apartment less than 2 weeks ago and am amazed at the response level. The same guy that offered to buy one of my apartments two weeks ago, called me last night and wanted to see my "A2" apartment with no photos. I showed it to him last night. Today he gave me an offer to not only buy both of my apartments but my entire business! I'm tempted as it's not chump change, but I will see this through at least a year or two I think. I really believe in what I'm doing and I'm starting to see the dividends now but I have a clear vision of what it can be. Today, I met with a company that does billboards.
Anyway, my American friend just called and said I am embarrasing him by being American since I'm still at the office at 9:30 PM on a friday so I'm headed over there now. Take care all.
Decamerone
11-07-04, 13:25
Dear Fellows,
Interesting discussion with Saint holding the initiative, as ever, now maybe he is stronger than ever, it seems.
One thing strikes me though. Why only act on the real estate market when the stock market is peaking? During the first six month of 2004 index raised 90%. Argentina has a historically splendid opportunity to increase its market shares on important export markets and engage their industry in new ones. Argentina can also attract foreign capital investments and tourism (as Saint has predicted).
Saint has as his major point that one has to take risks to some extent to succeed. Yes, and Saint has chosen his market. When we discuss Argentina and moneymaking, the real estate business has been the most profitable one during these years of crisis, but if we look further ahead, what then?
From my point of view Argentina is now so well integrated in the global economy (and society) that "artificial" instruments can not and will not be used in the macro economical policy. Argentina has already created modern values among females, an underestimated important fact. The norm to gain success/fulfil one's dream goes through studies at the university. The percentage that studies at the university is very high, even when compared to US/Canada and Western Europe. This is, however, as we have seen in Eastern Europe not enough. It is a necessary condition for growth, not a sufficient one. Conflicts within the Argentine society can escalate; yes that is a risk factor. But the foundation for both external and internal integration as well long term growth is laid.
Argentina don’t have to endure it’s so many and typical to the bitter end performances in either politics or economics. Argentina is no longer a piece in the Cold War. Argentina has been serious in keeping back inflation, perhaps the typical example in our time (serious to a fault?). The new monetary regime has continued the policy of price stability-even when growth rates have been as high as in China (near 10%)!
In my humble opinion, it seems that Argentina has entered a new stage in her development. She is a young nation in many ways, even if she was founded in the 1600th century. She is no longer afraid to face the challenges that the world put in front of her. The Official Story described this process already 1986. (Oscar winner for Best Foreign Film of the Year). However, the starting point may seem similar to other periods in Argentina’s history, especially for the common citizen. But there are striking differences, as I stated above.
Saint has developed a special niche for himself, with bravura. But he should not forget, at least in arguing, that the stock market probably is the most lucrative one in the long term perspective, especially considering the very low costs for engaging in it. And which with easiness you can withdraw from it, while rather the opposite is true for the real estate market.
Finally, I want to thank Saint for spending so much time and energy on the forum.
I haven't had time really to read anything on WSG or post and probably won't now too often. Maybe weekly or so. Things continue to go well and my business has really taken off. I've grown really quickly but I'm working 17 hour days now. I don't mind though as I'm happy with the direction of the company. I put an ad in the Buenos Aires Herald newspaper and online and it's funny that a bunch of Americans are calling my office wondering if I might have a job for them. One American girl called and I considered hiring her then she told me she can't speak any Spanish. Why would I hire her when I can just hire a local for a fraction of the price that is bilingual?
I was going to leave the travel agency business to focus on the real estate business but my partner convinced me to stay. Honestly though, I'll focus 90% of my time on the real estate business. I'm getting more consulting clients every week. I have helped 3 people buy an apartment, have 2 offers pending and I have 2 new clients today. I'm also starting to get more owners of properties contacting me to list on my site.
I also am starting to look at commerical property for investors. I looked at this amazing property two times. It is an amazing opportunity and I'm trying to pitch the idea of the most exclusive luxury bed and breakfast in all of South America. 18 bedrooms, 2 pools on the roof in the heart of Recoleta. Not cheap at an investment of around $1.3 million but the return on investment potential is HUGE. I'm talking netting about $400,000 a year if you market and manage it right.
I really love living here. I hired my first full-time employee and I'm looking to hire a bilingual secretary this week. I'm also looking at getting my own office space but it's damn difficult without being a resident here. I have a partner with the travel agency so I could get a lease but because my company, www.apartmentsba.com is all mine it's not so easy. I thought the solution might be to just buy a small office since they aren't so much at around $25,000. The problem is that you can't get phone lines installed unless you have a CUIT. I'm going to meet with a lawyer next week and someone with the government about getting residency here so I'm official and can get other businesses set up properly. (I still think I'm the only person in town purposely trying to set things up and pay taxes....oh well).
I'm meeting a lot of people from the UK now. Some companies there are outsourcing here so the last few clients have been from there. It's dirt cheap here for them. I got my first consulting client from a couple from the UK today.
I haven't hobbied in weeks and barely have time to spend with my novias. I still have them coming over a few times a week but lately not too often because I'm working a ton. I might hobby to treat myself if there is any action in Punta del Este when I fly there next weekend on business. I'll have to read up on WSG and see if there are any trip reports there.
It's brisk out today and I actually needed a jacket last night. I like it. I'm not ready for summer yet. I'm damn tired but need to get a few more things done on my website. I have about 70 more properties to list but I gave up since I have no time as it is. Oh well. I guess life could be worse huh? I don't miss the USA at all. I haven't watched TV in 2 or 3 weeks. Living in Argentina really is one of the most enriching experiences of my life.
Thomaso276
11-13-04, 10:31
Immigration has a new program for residency (radication). As I understand it there are two requirements after initial qualification: a criminal record check from your home country (with an apostille stamp) and a criminal record check from Argentina. Medical records, birth certificate, proof of pension, apostille stamps for all papers and official translations are no longer needed. In order to qualify you must take your passport to Immigration Offices on Antartida. Here is more info:
Por correo:
Av. Antártida Argentina 1355 C1104ACA Buenos Aires
Por correo-e: info@migraciones.gov.ar
Por teléfono:
(54 11) 4317-0200
Informes:
4317-0237 / 4317-0238
(de 8:00 a 13:00)
When you arrive go directly into the building, you do not need a number, pass the information desk and make a left into the next large room. Go right - to the doors leading outside and into the back "yard". Make an immediate left and you will see an area with many tables and workers sitting behind the tables. When I was there last week there was no line and 5 workers waiting for customers! Another person told me when they went there was a short line. Remember this is a special, new program. It was set up to encourage legal status and since the fee is 400 instead of the normal 200 some income for the Gov't..
Present your passport to see if you qualify (or call the number listed above). I believe you had to have been in the country between Jan and June 2004. If so the representative will give you an apllication and an appointment to return in about 1 month. The application has a blue front page headed : Programa National De Normalizacion Documentaria Migratoria. When you return you have to pay 400 pesos and submit the application. I was not clear about presenting the criminal records checks but believe that I have until Feb. or Mar. 2005 to present the USA records. I already started the Argentina record check. (Which you can do while at Immigration if you get there early enough. After 10 am they stop taking appplications for the day.) You can also go to the 1300 block of Tucuman for a records check (called an antecedentes). It is about 25 pesos and can be picked up in about one week. I went there around 1130 am and finished at 2 pm.
PM me if you have any questions.... Tom ONeill
Amber Wrath
11-13-04, 13:24
Greetings!
Any of you guys living in Buenos Aries have information on the cost of dental work.
My bridge fell out(3 tooth) and need a replacement plus a crown.
Dam 1k per tooth in California. This should be a way to monger for free if the dental costs are cheap compared to the USA. You know labor costs>keep um down lol PUN...
I am a long time lurker. Ready to hump my way around the world in 2005.
Blame it on Rio. Nope Blame it on refinance mortgage. Got to check in with Saint.
Looks like I could legally live in Buenos Aires. Hmmmm
Thanks to all
Rick
There are 2 kinds of records that you can get in Buenos Aires:
1) The one involving your background at the Justice system, mentioned by Thomaso276,which revolves around your pending processes and your past condamnations.
2) The one involving your arrests record, issued by the Federal Police (Chile St and Azopardo St).
Thomaso276 covered pretty well the first one (it has a 3-tier process, urgents, fast and normal, which should cost from ar$25 to ar$60, roughly, and deals with 24hr, 48hr and 10 days issuance)
I did the 2nd one too. You have to go to the Federal Police and pay ar$10 pesos for it. Generally, you need a DNI, but in your case the passport should suffice. It takes 2-3 weeks to be delivered.
Some institutions request the 1st one (for instance, the driver license deliverance authority, for taxi drivers) while others prefer the 2nd one (embassies and consulates).
Respect to US records, I did it too a long time ago. Believe me, IT'S A HASSLE to get them from Argentina (at least for Argentinians, since they were waiting for them for up to a year). In this case, you have to get 2 certificates: A Federal one (uissued by the FBI) and a state-wide one (issued by the criminal record department of your state of residency)
To get the FBI record, go to the nearest Police station in your neighborhood, ask the officer to get a copy of your fingeprints for immigation purposes (come with your ID). Once you get the copy of your fingerprints, write a check of US$18 (confirm it, though) to the name of "United Stated Treasury" and send it with the fingerprints to:
FBI
CJIS Division
1000 Custer Hollow Road
Clarksburg, WV 26306
It takes 2-3 weeks to arrive, and confirms if you had previous arrests.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Jaimito Cartero
11-13-04, 17:24
Any of you guys living in Buenos Aries have information on the cost of dental work.
If you're close to Mexico there's some reasonable dental work done there. Of course if you're going to BA, that's a mighty fine excuse to go!
Dear Tom O'Neill and folks,
Here in Cordoba, the big city near my mountain residence, I have also begun the process of obtaining permanent residence. Be aware that even if you had RENTERED Argentina after June 30th, but have lived here earlier for some time, you may be able to qualify.
I should easily be able to get the antecedentes document from the AR police of the town of my recent 1.5 year residence. Can anyone kindly inform me how to obtain via the US consulate in BA, the Criminal Record check. I am confused by Andres report, in that am not sure if that is for US citizens. I have no immediate plans to return to the USA so need to obtain the aforementioned record here in AR, and within the time limits allowed by the local Dept. of Migraciones. One hopes it won't take for ever to get the criminal record clearance for US citizens residing here... I have not yet telephone the US consulate, but know from experience that answers of these kind of matters are often misleading and/or mistaken.
Mr. O'Neill, you may also pm me directly on the forum.
It is generous of the authorities to allow us to reside here in this manner, and one hopes we can also contribute in any way, as well. Jackson, should be commended for his initiative along with others, for the foundation and work of the WSG charity.
Let us only hope the US Dollar will not diminish further in value.
Best wishes to all,
Bodhi
- in Cordoba province (where an hour session in an apartment with an attractive chica can be had for $50 peso...).
Just kidding. Ha, ha. Actually, I was contacted by the owner of probably one of the most luxurious and unique apartments in all of Buenos Aires. She hired me to find a corporate executive to lease out her 2 Floor penthouse 5 bedroom/ 6 bathroom 7,300 sq. feet apartment. This thing is amazing! Sauna, INDOOR POOL on the upper floor with a retractable roof so you can watch your favorite novia getting a sun tan. The entire roof of the apartment retracts in. There is a BBQ pit area next to the pool. The entire apartment has a view of the River. I've traveled around the world to a lot of places but never seen an apartment quite like this.
Too bad Jackson didn't lease this place for the WSG mansion because it's centrally located in a posh area of Recoleta. (I actually live in the building next door). I am trying to talk the owner into leasing it out by the day instead of a 2 year lease. I'm almost positive that she'll do it. Even at my suggested price of $650 per night if you split it 5 ways with friends it's only $130/night which is less than a hotel room at most decent hotels these days. Personally, I think the most use will be corporate dinner parties and functions, wedding receptions, and dream weekend getaway type vacations.
This place would be the perfect terma! Has a sauna, pool, many bedrooms and bathrooms. It'll be interesting to see how this turns out. It's going to be too tempting having the keys managing this property.
http://www.apartmentsba.com/system/productos_detalle.php?id_prod=167
On the topic of residency here. I'll know more next week after I meet with some of these people. They are all telling me with everything I've done I'll have no problems getting an investment visa but we'll see if they are right.
_________________________________
Decamerone,
I just read your post. I didn't see it before because I guess it was delayed since you are a Regular Member. Yes, I believe you have to take some chances in life. I've always lived life with the attitude it is very short and live like tomorrow may never come. Hopefully people don't think that it's easy to make money here because it's tough. I mean really tough. My business has only taken off because I am working around the clock on it. I'm talking 110+ hour weeks sometimes. I wake up around 6 AM every morning. It's not fun but that's what it takes. I hope to slow down a little.
You make some good points in your post. I never said real estate was the only or best play here. There are several businesses here I think you can make money in. I don't know those businesses though. I know the real estate market. I took a chance several years ago leasing out apartments and learning about the business. I like it. It's a clean business that is very cut and dry. As I posted several times, tourism is exploding. Every week I see it busier and busier. I'm in the unique position of seeing occupancy rates of hotels. Hell, some apartment hotels like Art Suites, I am now the #1 source of bookings for them. And these aren't WSG guys so all you guys thinking I post on WSG for business you are sadly mistaken. 99% of WSG guys won't pay $100+ per night for an apartment. And that's totally ok. I think it was Exon that told me it doesn't take brains to spend money. My answer to that would be no, but it doesn't take brains to purposely stay in an inferior room when you could be having a luxury experience. If you have the money.....enjoy life. Most of you will probably die with more money in your bank accounts than I will....but I bet I had more pleasurable experiences in my life...ha, ha.
Anyway, getting back to my point.... tourism is going to continue to explode. The Euro is strong and more and more Europeans are coming here. Delta Airlines started their BA flights back up. Look at average ticket prices for a ticket here. Many guys that used to just mosey on down to BA with no reservations are finding they are stuck between staying in a hostel or a very very expensive hotel room if they didn't plan before coming here.
The stock market? Yes, it has boomed here. But there are so many factors to investing in the stock market. There are risks. People keep thinking that real estate here is risky. Why? What's risky about buying a luxury property in the best part of town and having the property value continue to go up? What's risky about having occupancy rates of more than 22+ days a month? Could I do other things and make a higher rate of return? Maybe....but maybe not. I have no interest in investing in the stock market in the USA let alone Argentina.
I'm doing well because I took the time to learn about all this stuff several years ago. Very few businesses just take off with no hard work. Some guys tell me, "you're so lucky". Luck has nothing to do with making money in South America. Like I said before, if you're planning on moving down here...have a good and solid business plan.
Decamerone, keep in mind that the peso was already devalued. The shock is over. Real estate prices bounced back hard after the confusion. These people can't and shouldn't trust banks. The best investment for them is "walls" (i.e. property). More and more are buying properties for income. I said it before and I'll say it again....what I'm doing is not rocket science. Take a great property in the best part of South America, rent it out to people that want a luxury experience and want to pay a fraction the price of a hotel room, charge u$s and you'll do ok.
My business plan has changed just a little. Now that I have more and more people contacting me to list their properties, I can charge more. The funniest situation was this guy that I was booking at least 18 days out of the month for. I told him that I wasn't going to raise his % charge but I reserve the right to charge more than his asking price and collect it from the client. He told me he didn't think it was fair. I told him why isn't it fair? He is setting the price and getting it. I took his property off my site 2 weeks ago and he said he could do it on his own. He has a $100,000 luxury property but it's worthless if he can't keep it full. He has since emailed and called apologizing asking if he can list his apartment again and offered me 15% instead of the 10% I was making. It's easy to buy a nice property but people are finding it's not so easy to keep it occupied the majority of the month year-round. It takes a lot of marketing and money to advertise to do that.
The cool thing is now other realtors in town are coming to me with private listings that aren't even on the market. They hear about this American that is buying up property all over Recoleta or that wants to on behalf of other foreigners and many hours of each day is spent looking at property. I'm getting good at pricing properties. I've looked at over 150 apartments now.
More and more of my income now is on consulting fees helping other Americans/Europeans buy property here. It's a nice little niche for me but ultimately I want to manage their properties. The business plan is very simple. They have no risk using me because they don't pay me unless they are making money. I only take a % of all bookings. I've always loved the referral system. I've always believed in my businesses that one good client is like having 3 or 4 clients because they will refer other people to you. That is what is happening now. I'm seeing that many foreigners wanted to buy property here since the crash but there wasn't a means to do it until now. I walk them through the process and let them talk to other people I have helped make 15%-20% year gains for the past several years.
Other guys that want to live overseas in other areas besides Buenos Aires. I would urge you to get involved in real estate if you are moving to a desirable area. Take the time to learn about it. If I can do it here, I imagine you can do it in other parts of the world too. Places like Rio de Janerio are in desperate need for luxury apartment rentals. If someone had their act together, you could make a lot of money there. I've found from personal experience that most of the people working there aren't too organized, are VERY slow answering emails and not so professional. The supply of apartments is mostly lower grade crap too.
For guys wanting to move down to Buenos Aires, and you don't know what you can do to support yourself. One idea is to buy some premium property and rent it out. With 2 properties you could propably make enough to live. I didn't have the money to buy yet another apartment so I went back to my "glory days" of leasing apartments and I'm going to rent them out again. I paid 3 entire years of a lease in the same building of my premium A1 property. I'll lease it out in the next week or so. I sign the contract on Monday.
Anyway, I'm really excited about this business and very passionate about it. The funniest thing is when guys try to tell me how "dangerous" buying real estate here is when they have never gone through the process. I think many foreigners are going to make massive amounts of money off the real estate market in the next few decades here.
I'm now getting involved in learning more about the commercial real estate possibilities. Personally I think there is much greater margins in bigger properties like hotels or bed and breakfasts. Anyway, it will be good to get to Punta del Este next weekend. I have to work and look at many properties but I'll relax too. I will also see if there is any hobby scene there. I'll report what I find out.
P.S. You're welcome Decamerone. Thanks for that nice post and the comments.
So far I have taken the ferry to Colonia and back to have my 3-month tourist visa renewed, but I am wondering how many more times I can do that. Anyone know? I have to renew my tourist visa again and I would hate to ferry it over to Colonia only to be denied readmission.
I came down to BsAs at the end of May to check it out and see if I want to settle here for a while -- if not permanently. Needless to say, I want to live here permanently. I do want to get my residency sometime soon and have begun researching how to go about it. And I'll be scouring this thread for information on the subject. But in teh meantime I would appreciate any information about how to stay in Argentina until I make progress on my residency. At the moment I'm renting a nice apartment in Las Carnitas and am pretty well settled in, so I look forward to meeting some of the players at upcoming WSG functions.
Thanks for the help
Desperado999
11-16-04, 00:38
Saint,
U rented me your pad last year before I run off to Uruguay. I will be back to Nov 21 to 28. Would like to meet up to introduce myself in person. If you will be around, please PM me.
Cali
Hey Calicula919,
Cool. I'm actually going to Punta del Este on business this weekend but I should be back on Monday. PM me your phone number here and I'll give you a call when I get back.
Cheers,
Saint
Hi Saint,
I just realised something, I called you up looking for an appartment about a week ago, was referred to you by that English guy with an advert in the BA Herald. Remember, British guy, you thought I was Australian, but I was looking for something cheaper?
I eventually found a pretty nice studio on Cabrera and Bulnes for USD 180 per week. I also gave you some advice about the Costa Del Sol I think a while back. Have been reading your posts about the real estate business, which are very interesting. One thing I was wondering, can you get a loan here from a local bank etc. to buy a place, or how does the leasing business work ?? What kind of money would a 3 year lease be on a nice studio, or 1 bedroom appartment. I am looking for a place for myself first and possibly to rent out second. Oh, by the way, if you are looking for any business colleagues, maye for the European market, I speak English, French, Dutch and some German and Spanish.
Cheers,
Coupe 66
Hey guys,
For those of you moving down here. Definitely open a bank account. I keep hearing many people that don't know what they are talking about try telling me that I don't need an account here. The reason you need one is for major convenience. I can pull money from my ATM card whenever I want with no fees. I can deposit and withdraw pesos or cash (u$s) whenever I want from any branch. The major reason though is the online payment feature to pay my utility bills (Cable, telephone, gas, water, electricity, etc.). I have several properties now and it would take me forever to wait in line at the banks to pay them if I tried doing it there.
People do wait in line for a long time at banks but if you are set up with a good bank they will enable you to pay your bills online just like in the USA. In fact, it's actually a better system. Most bills you receive will have some small print on the top or bottom of the invoice. It will say, "Su clave para Debito Automatico en Bancos" and "Su codigo de Pago Electronico en cajeros". There will be a long #. You just go online to your bank's website and type in your security information and you select what type of bill it is. For example for Electricity I use EDESUR. I type in my code and voila. It already tells how much I owe and with one click the bill is paid.
This will save you a TON of time. I manage a few properties now and I pay their bills this way. Fast and easy. You have the option of printing a receipt (which I recommend). It couldn't be easier.
Funny how I'm meeting more people from other parts of South America moving to Buenos Aires. Today I met 2 girls from Colombia that moved here for their jobs (no they aren't working girls). They loved one of my apartments but couldn't afford it. I got one more last night that I leased for 3 years and I talked to another owner in the same building to lease yet another one for 3 years. Already have it booked for next week. I really like this real estate business. I'll focus more now on corporate relocations. That's where the bigger money is.
Chau.
I am probably one of those people who does not know what they are talking about, but I've been here six months now and have seen no need for a bank account. I don't pay ATM fees, and I pay all my bills at either Disco or PagoFácil. I'm sure it might be different if I were running a business, though, or if I had to make cash deposits. I could pay my bills through the machines in the bank lobbies even with my US ATM card but just doing it at Disco or PagoFácil is actually quicker. For those who do not know, one nice thing down here is that you only pay utility bills every two months.
Hi all. I've received so many emails since I moved here. It seems many people really want to move overseas but they don't have a means to make money. Their dream is to move to Cuba, Thailand, Rio, Czech Republic, Costa Rica, Panama, Spain, Poland, etc.
I thought about it last night and I have created yet another business plan that I think is viable. Anyone can take the idea of what I did and try it in another country. Whether they succeed or not is an unknown. What I am planning on doing is basically taking the exact same concept of what I am doing and selling the company in each city that each person wants to move to. I have a business where I've learned what works, what doesn't, best ways to make contacts, etc. I'm not just selling a domain name or a website (although the actual website cost a few grand so far..I think it's excellent and included in the price) but an actual business. I'm giving them the recipe of what they need to do to make their company work.
In hearing and seeing so many guy's business plans that were horrible, I figure the least I could do is help them with a legitimate business plan and a proven business that is making money. As I posted before, I think in a few years I could be making as much money here than I did in the USA. Each day it grows bigger and bigger.
I figure many guys blow thousands of dollars trying to start a business in a foreign country. At least this would give them a legitiate shot if they set it up right. I am selling the exact duplicate of my real estate website. The applicable domain name is included and so is consulting on every step I took to build this business. It took a lot of trial and error but I know if I can do it here...guys can do it anywhere. I figure u$s 10,000 is a good price (cheap actually) for basically giving you the recipe to create a business where you want to move. The really valuable part is the consulting aspect that money really can't buy. Any type of consultant anywhere else in the world would charge you hundreds of dollars per hour. I'd appreciate guys PM'ing me what they think of my business plan. It would include the domain name of your choice below (which I own) :
apartmentsrio.com
apartmentschile.com
apartmentscuba.com
apartmentspde.com (punta del este)
apartmentscostarica.com
apartmentspanama.com
apartmentsjapan.com
apartmentsofspain.com
apartmentsgermany.com
apartmentscolombia.com
amsterdamflats.com
russiaflats.com
flatuk.com
thailandflats.com
polandflats.com
peruapartments.com
apartmentszurich.com
apartmentssingapore.com
apartmentsczech.com
flatparis.com
Before anyone posts crap about this not being about Living in Argentina. Part of living in Argentina is finding out how you are going to survive. This living in Argentina section it seems has become popular, even for guys that don't want to live here. Intelligent discussion appreciated.
Saint
P.S. There are a lot of things wrong with the real estate market. I haven't been involved in real estate in my life in the USA. However, it doesn't take a real estate pro to see there are clearly many things wrong with the system here. I think American thinking is good sometimes here. And you know what? People are actually listening to me here and interested in my suggestions. The people here don't trust one another. Property listings are sacred and there is NO MLS system (central type computer system for those wanting to buy that shows all the listings for all the agencies in town). Realtors here don't like splitting the commission but I've been involved in several now and I think they are starting to see that making "2 quick nickels" is as good or better than making a "slow dime".
I truly want to revolutionize the real estate industry in Argentina. I know many of you are laughing but I'm serious and I think I can help do it. I guess we'll see a few years from now if I succeed or not. I want to create a centralized "MLS" type system with all the listings from multiple agencies. I have seen the real estate agencies don't trust one another but they are willing to trust an unbiased third party (me). My goal is to get a centralized system in place. Sure people will have to split commissions but they will have a lot more activity and ultimately will make more money.
Don't laugh, but if this system works (and I realize it will takes YEARS to get going), I want to approach the government and give them a clear method of making money through taxes. Everyone avoids taxes here like the plague. NO property owners pay the 21% tax. Why not charge 5% a year, get full compliance from the majority of property owners then increase the percentage 1% every year. Make stiff penalties if the governement catches them. Make property owners pay an annual fee to get a license to rent out their property. Yet, don't make it so huge that people will try to cheat and not pay taxes.
A lot of things here are ass backwards and I realize I can't change anything drastically but I enjoy when I see small changes in the system. It's nice that people are taking some ideas I have and following through with them. It's nice that companies that have been doing this for 25+ years are asking for my input. One company is flying me down to Bariloche next month to help them evaluate and market some property. I'm going to Punta del Este this weekend on a similar type trip.
I guess I can't complain. I have more and more expats calling me everyday asking for some type of job. Today, a guy from WSG that called me over a month ago looking for an apartment called the office and put two and two together that I was "Saint". It was funny because he called my office tonight and said, "Are you Saint". LOL! Hey Jackson...make the poor guy a Senior Member as he was complaining his posts aren't showing up.
Life is truly good.
Ferolga777
11-17-04, 21:43
Saint
Brilliant!!!! I am glad you keep coming up with these good ideas.
Ferolga
Saint:
Your intentions and objectives are admirable, but you should pay attention to some factors in order not to be involved in the wrong dispute with the wrong people.
1) Most of the time, people in Buenos Aires don't trust each other, and people coming from abroad are seen as "reliable" as long as they are "off the game". However, one you are well into the game and begin to have a significant decision power, it would be hard to keep the "unbiased third party" status. It would simply happen because some people will benefit from your advice and others will get damaged by it (owners who lost a juicy deal). Disfavoured people will trash you, take it for granted.
2) Unlike the US, where the real estate market may have changing developing areas, cities or neighborhoods, Argentina's best real estate and farm properties revolve around the same areas (Pergamino, Rio Salado, San Isidro, Vicente Lopez, Recoleta, Palermo, Belgrano, etc). Thus, business opportunities are fewer and, in order to accomodate the most intermediaries as possible, inefficiencies and corruption should rule. An MLS system will raise the concerns of those less competitive (or less powerful), which may freeze the move.
Don't forget that you are working at a niche, a high-end segment. Some realtors may benefit for an increase in their sales of high-end property due to your sound management principles, but most of the rest will make roughly the same since the business won't change that much for having such a MLS system. Clarin issued today (for Wed) a special report about scarcity of renting space in BA, where lack of financial alternatives and lack of supply make it difficult to grow the market (although renting space is needed).
Will foreigners continue buying property in BA during the following years? Sure. That is a good opportunity for you, but I doubt that the available offer will be that high to keep a significant, constant volume of properties on the years to come (unlesss someone start pouring big Dollars into new buildings, and banks do not finance many projects nowadays, as what I know).
3) It is very unlikely that realtors, government and companies want to have a system that can control them. Many government officials make money from their real estate activities when in the private sector, companies want to have the alternative to buy property "on the shadows" if the economic situation urges them to evade taxes, and realtors want to have an extra income by avoiding taxes (if possible). I guess that people in Argentina are accustomed to abuses from the powerful parties, so they are reluctant to acept an efficient iron fist (which may turn quickly into a money vacuum cleaner).
I hope to be wrong and thay you be able to "clean the system". Just take it step by step to see how "socially acceptable" your ideas are.
Andres
Andres,
I agree with many of your comments. I already see some companies/individuals are threatened by my activities. I have caught several people in lies here. A few people have tried telling some trusted people I have relationships here that I tried working with them around their backs. People are obviously threatened or they wouldn't be lying. I absolutely agree with your unbiased third party theory but you can't stop progress and you can't stop technology. Whether it's me that initiates the move or other companies...it's only a matter of time.
Yes, I'm working at a very high-end niche market. I realize that. I don't want to work with cheaper apartments. I'm talking about quality apartments. BA is big enough where you have real estate changing hands on a constant enough basis. I could be wrong but there will always be people moving out of the country, people desperate to sell for money, people that die, people that inherit property, etc.
Yes, I saw that article. Rental space is in big demand and I believe that trend will continue in both the commericial, and especially the residential sectors.
You may be right about foreign demand tapering but I truly believe that we are only starting to see a small glimpse of foreigners buying in BA. Just how many people do you know that only came to Buenos Aires one time? Most that I know love the city and come back over and over. My consulting clients for the most part aren't mongers. They are families that came here on vacation and love the city, business men that know how to read a business plan and I even have my first lesbian couple clients. There is a lack of really good properties on the market now and there is increased demand from foreigners that want to buy here. I'm no genius but what do you think that will do to the property rates? You guessed it. Property values in good areas will continue to go up.
There is more and more demand. I'm getting more and more clients but the bigger untold picture is that I'm getting more and more emails from people that are interested in buying. They might not be clients yet but they are intrigued with owning property in Buenos Aires. No one really has marketed to these foreigners. What about when I plan to put up billboards on 9th de Julio aimed at both buyers and sellers. One that I'm working on says in Spanish, "property owners: how would you like to make up to 900 pesos per night! Then the other side: Tourists: How would you like to stay in a luxury apartment for less than $X/night.
I don't delude myself into thinking I can "clean the system" here. Corruption thrives here. I don't like taxes either but I think with the volume of people renting out their properties, the government is sure to get involved. Rather then them come down hard and fast...I'd rather put some kind of plan in place that makes sense for everyone.
The funny thing is that I have about 25% more listings that aren't on my website. It's from owners that are scared someone might see their apartment and they don't want to do it out of the risk of the government getting involved. I don't like doing things slowly but I have to with what Andres is talking about.
Yes, time will tell if anything becomes of this. I'm happy with the progress so far.
Ferolga777
11-18-04, 02:39
Andres
I think you will understand this. I see Saint as an example of the Gringo character in Latin American literature. THe guy that goes down and makes a good buck and even if the whole world collapses he gets to walk away in better shape than anyone else in the novel.
Ferolga
Real estate prices in the areas mentioned by Andres are up about 30-50% since the devaluation.An article in Clarin states that when the devaluation occurred, prices dropped 20%. Many foreigners stepped in and bought many properties. But whom will purchase property in the future?
Clarin ran an article about a study on the best places to live in the world. Argentina was 40th. guess the study didnt take into account the mongering scene, or it would be in the top 3. Anyhow, Brazil, cost rica, mexico and other SA countries ranked higher.
I think what Saint does is great..but i would caution anyone on thinking what he does is easy or transferable to another country. No matter what anyone tell you, the majority of the apartment renters in recoleta are tourists and not business people. Business people stay in hotels, they dont have time to waste wondering where they will stay and if its available. If tourism dries up, or if the hotels finally drop their prices, these apartments will not command the price that Saint and others are asking.
Remember, tourists go where it is cheap for them, and the cheap prices will not stay around forever. It has been estimated that Argentina now enjoys a sevenfold increase in tourism since the devaluation. This isnt because its just been discovered, its because its cheap. Since 2001 the price for a chica has more than tripled. I was in BA in 2001 and can tell you that i paid less than $75 dollars for a hottie at black. now i cant buy a hottie at black for less than 200 dollars and rising.
If inflation really kicks in and or the peso strengthens against the dollar and the Euro, all these investment properties will be standing idle. Hyper inflation is not out of the question, in fact in the 70's 80's and part of the 90's inflation could run in the 1000% per year.
If they have more of these bombings, tourism and foreign investment will suffer. In 1975-78, terrorism in Argentina was a fact of life. You have to remember this is not the US. Stability and Security drives investment and tourism.
rb1,
You make some good points. And you are damn right. What I do is NOT easy. In fact, it is very difficult. I've basically taken a lot of time and expense to perfect this business. It's a viable business though anywhere there are tourists. Places like Rio would thrive on this type of business. There ARE lots of people out there that are willing to pay more for excellent service and an excellent product. That will never change no matter what.
Yes, tourism is booming here and it will continue to in the future, IMHO. If you have a good enough product I believe you can do well. If you think Argentina is going to get their affairs in order anytime soon you are sadly mistaken. Just as I posted after my first trip, this mess will take time to sort out.
As far as the "hotels finally dropping their prices" comment. Hotels are all raising their prices and will continue to. Yes, the majority of businessmen will stay in hotels but again, if you have a good enough clientele they will return to your property over and over. I have clients that keep coming back to me over and over since 2002. Why? Because my product is better and much cheaper than the Four Seasons. I have people that have company expense accounts that will pay for them to stay at the Four Seasons, Alvear Palace, etc. They still choose a luxury apartment for the high-speed internet, the spacious living environment and the privacy that an apartment offers. The Loi Suites Recoleta is charging upwards of $165/night for a smaller room. The Alvear Palace is charging $300- $1,000 for a room. The Four Seasons is almost $300/night for a small room. We are talking about hundreds of rooms. I only have a few apartments. It's not like I'm trying to fill hundreds of apartment rooms. My products are a fraction the cost of those hotels. As long as they continue to charge those prices (and they will), I'll have a viable product.
Yes, tourists go where it is cheap but they also go to world class cities that they love. I have visited Switzerland, Italy, French Riviera, Germany, UK, Paris, Prague, Amsterdam. All were full of tourists. Last time I checked, it was damn expensive to go to those cities. Hell, I spent u$s 18 on a small bag of cherries in Paris earlier this year.
Also, interestingly enough. Not everyone buying here wants to rent out their flat. I have a few people that just want a great place to stay when they come down here. I also have one client that wants an excuse to come down here without his wife getting suspicious. This gives him a reason to come down as often as he wants! Ha, ha.
Again, you are absolutely right that this isn't easy. But I do think it could work in a number of various places. I'm sure I could duplicate it in Rio, Cuba, UK, and a number of other places I listed. Like I said before, you take a good enough business plan, you work hard and you spent time and money with it......it will work.
Good luck.
OttoGraham
11-18-04, 11:17
I already see some companies/individuals are threatened by my activities. I have caught several people in lies here. A few people have tried telling some trusted people I have relationships here that I tried working with them around their backs.
Yes, but what about Saint? Can we talk some more about Saint please? What I really want to hear about is Saint. Saint is the subject I want to read about. More about Saint please. If we could have some more discussion about Saint, it would be a good thing.
I'd like to thrown a question at you business-minded folks on this section of the board:
"Is there value to be created from investing in the wine-making potential of Argentina?"
This is just an idea that popped into my head a couple of days ago, BUT:
1) I believe that over the next 15 years Top Quality Wine (TQW) will be in increasing demand World Wide.
2) Supply of TQW is not elastic (it takes at least 5 year to create from scratch).
3) Top quality Argentinian wine is excellent and at very competitive prices (and therefore Competitive Costs).
4) Argentinina wine still has to be "discovered" by the masses.
The above is just the seed of an idea. Does anyone want to pick up the thread? I should be in BA in late January or early February '05 so we could meet and brain-storm.
In the meantime can someone please tell me how I can order the stuff from Europe without paying exhorbitant shipping costs which tripple the cost of the final product? (I read something like 100 US$ per case).
If there is no such "reasonnably priced and reliable shipping service", would some of you BA residents like to start up such an activity?
Answers to the second and third question are even more welcome, the wine drinking would inspire me while I better define my business plan.
Edonist.
just watch in the next few months as the dollar falls and the peso gets stronger. The tourists from America will disappear quickly.
rb1,
I've heard people try arguing that point for a few years now and I'm still waiting to see that occur. I've seen quite the opposite with even more tourists from around the world coming here with their dollars, euros, Sterling, yen, francs and Real. I would care to wager that collectively there will be more tourists a year from now as there are today. (I'm not just talking Americans but the total number of tourists that come to Argentina).
A few observations from the other side of the atlantic:
I believe, that a large part of the clients renting apartments like the ones Saint is offering are not tourists, but professionals. Not businessmen who stay in town for 2 days to attend a few meetings, but people involved in some work that takes it's time: consultants, engineers, etc. involved in a project and so on. I personally prefer much to be in apartment and to just take my beer out of the fridge to calling room service if I have to be at a place for 2 weeks or more. For me (and I could imagine many other people) the question hotel / apartment is one of time spent at a certain location. a few days - hotel, a few weeks - apt. Renting an Apartment in BA, I enjoy 2 benefits: cost and convenience. And, in a centralized country like Argentina, every business (nearly every) happens in the Capital.
This is what makes Saint's business work in BA. Hotels are extremely expensive (compared to the local costs of living, in BA a good hotel room costs 10 times or more the price of a good dinner in a decent restaurant, in Europe or the U.S. it's maybe a factor of 3), room prices not beeing calculated from costs, but set accordint to what the international clientele is willing (?) to pay. Real estate on the other hand is still comparably cheap, and that means that the actual costs including amortization of providing apartments are low. Even renting them considerably below hotel room prices leaves a very nice margin.
That, on the other hand prohibits porting Saint's business model to every other market. Certainly there are places on the world with comparable conditions, also certainly there are places where it would not work. In Barcelona, for example, hotels cost maybe 1.5 times the amount paid in BA, apartments (to buy) 3 to 4 times as much. In Germany, there is not one city that concentrates all the economy, but the industry is spread all over the country, and tourism is much less.
Saint, the much I appreciate your contributions especially to this section of the board, I have the feeling that recently there has been a bit too much advertisement for Saint Global Enterprises, Inc. I wish you all the luck possible to make your work a success, but my concern is that you are not only making friends. When in Rome, do it like the Romans - they can get rather pissed, if somebody starts to change all their life.
I would not hesitate to invest in Argentina (in fact, I did, a substantial amount), and I would not expect an apartment loosing value. The real estate market in BA always was a U$S market, never pesos, and I would expect it to stay that way (interesting for somebody earning Euros).
just 2 (Euro-) cents
El Aléman
Dick for Brains
11-18-04, 17:22
Yes, but what about Saint? Can we talk some more about Saint please? What I really want to hear about is Saint. Saint is the subject I want to read about. More about Saint please. If we could have some more discussion about Saint, it would be a good thing.
What are you complaining about OG? You have you're own freaking thread!
I, for one, find Saint's posts most informative and appreciate all of the information that he offers.
Perhaps that is exactly what Saint should have, his own thread. I think its fair to say that most on this board are pleased for Saint that he's doing so well and wish him all the best, and enjoy his posts too - long may they continue, Saint and LA Larry were the part of the inspiration for my first trip in 2002, and I am sure that he could and probably does charge for some of the information he gives out for free on this board. However, this is a general 'living in Argentina' thread, and part of its `encanto` is that it has practical tips and info on daily life which can help immensely whether visiting or living in BA, plus giving those of us unlucky enough to live several thousand miles away, a slight flavour of what life must be like to live in Argentina.
As such it does at times feel a little dominated by SaintCorp. With the flash new layout of the board, perhaps Jackson could set Saint up with his own thread, his contributions certainly merit one. This thread can then go back to discussions on the minutiae of daily life in Argentina, such as what is the best launderette, how to avoid queues in the supermarket (my answer to that is go at 4pm, went to the Disco in Rodriguez Pena yesterday at that time and zero queue), whether to open a bank account, etc etc.
Incidentally I have a couple of questions for the old timers....
- what is the best and/or cheapest shopping mall/place for buying clothes (t-shirts, shirts and leather shoes)?
- are there any swimming pools in BA (apart from the mansion of course, which I hope to visit on Saturday)? I feel like a swim, are there any hotels or health clubs with decent sized pools that allow a daily membership (and for how much)?
muchissimas gracias
MH.
Ferolga777
11-18-04, 20:26
How bout this one? Saint never contributes anything, ever again and that way we can have all the other people contributing as much as he does happily filling up the space. ;>]
HappyGoLucky
11-18-04, 20:46
Gents,
Not too long ago Saint said he didn't want his own thread.
We'll have to respect that, and skip past anything we don't wish to read.
Regarding, "what is the best and/or cheapest shopping mall/place for buying clothes (t-shirts, shirts and leather shoes)?"
I found that the shopping mall in Villa Devoto had much better prices than Florida St. or Santa Fe and the Abasto mall was slightly better too (by Carlos Gardel subte if I remember correctly).
OK, fair enough, if Saint doesnt want one. Clearly its better to have this thread with Saint than no Saint at all - its bad enough losing Andres!
Thanks for the shopping tips too, MH.
Nope. I don't want my own thread. I think that's reserved for "VIP's" like Dickhead and Otto. I still for the life of me can't understand those of you complaining. If you don't want to read my posts just skip over them. It seems like those of you complaining the most are the ones that read my posts the most.
Maybe the solution is to create my own board where I CHARGE you. As far as I'm concerned, WSG should be a pay site. Jackson has provided free what many of you should be paying for. It's amazing that people have anything to complain about on a FREE site where information is being provided to you at NO cost. I for one will be happy when Jackson goes to a pay site to eliminate so many pikers that complain all the time. Probably as much as 70% of the people on WSG will drop off once he goes to a pay site and I don't think that's such a bad thing.
I'll say it again. If you don't want to read anything from "Saint" then skip over my posts. Maybe some of you should invest in a scrolling mouse. You guys complaining are like the people that complain about Howard Stern. If you don't want to listen to him just turn off the radio. You always listen because you want to hear what he says next then you complain. "Turn off your radios".
__________
In the spirit of posting something helpful I will tell you about a decent Chinese restaurant that delivers around Recoleta. It's not great but it's better than nothing. The name of it is Restaurant Chino Garden and the # for delivery is 4813-7555 or 4816-3915. They deliver the food piping hot.
MagicHat
Shopping
There is a mall located far from downtown (Panamericana and Camino del Buen Ayre) called Soleil Factory (in fact, the first mall ever in Argentina). Coming by van, it's 10 km farther than Unicenter. For what you have to buy, I'm not sure if it's worth the trip.
In order to buy plain t-shirts, you don't have to travel that much. Suaya on Junin and Las Heras provides a wide selection of average quality for roughly ar$15-20 each (don't expect t-shirts of Banana Republic quality here or anywhere else in BA).
As of shirts, there is a place on Cordoba and Acuña de Figueroa (Cordoba 3900, 8 blocks from Salome) called Van Heusen. There, you can buy cheap shirts (ar$40). You have also some places closer to the "action": The corner of Paraguay and Suipacha has an Equus store, which provides gaudy and cheap shirts.
As of leather shoes, I heard of a shopping strip close to Plaza Mayor restaurant (San Jose between Venezuela and Mexico). I saw shoes ther for ar$100 and less. Personally, I like a lot Oggi (Santa Fe at the 1300s), where you can find damn good shoes for around ar$100-150.
Swimming
YMCA (ACJ in Spanish) is located at Reconquista 439, the heart of Downtown. Monthly memberships range from ar$40 to ar$120 (as of Dec 2003), and the pools are way above average for BA standards.
Sport Club (Paraguay betwen Junin and Ayacucho), in the heart of a university neighboirhood, provides monthly memberships for ar$80. Pool is so-so, but the female students wearing spandex and sweating on the gym worth several looks (and it is a great place to find non-pros, I can guaranty it!)
The best pool, as of heard, is the one at Club de Amigos (Figueroa Alcorta and Ugarteche), cumbersome place to go by bus and expensive (ar$16 the daily pass), but the pool fits Olympic standards.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Jaimito Cartero
11-19-04, 00:48
Nope. I don't want my own thread. I think that's reserved for "VIP's" like Dickhead and Otto.
Although I doubt I will ever buy any real estate in BA, I've found Saint's info quite helpful. I do own a few properties in other parts of Latin America and it can be very tricky dealing with the local governments and so forth.
Most people on WSG go to places to monger, I personally go for vacation, and throw some mongering in to balance it out. It's really interesting to see alternative views of the places you go other than Cattos, Hook, Black, etc. For those who already have their own threads, and who seem to have control issues, perhaps working on their reports will release some of that steam you have built up.
How difficult it is to scroll past a message? If you think Saint is a self promoting a-hole, then just scroll on down. I think he can take that kind of rejection.
Kaos In NYC
11-19-04, 03:55
I believe in respecting what others have to say but in this instance attacking Saint only shows how narrow minded people can be. As he said if you don't want to read his post and expand your mind then scroll down. Saint I really appreciate you telling us about your real estate endeavors, I know I'm not the only one. You are providing some "priceless" information.
Please continue.
HappyGoLucky
11-19-04, 13:24
"I personally go for vacation, and throw some mongering in to balance it out."
I'm with that!!! I love Buenos Aires...
Dick for Brains
11-19-04, 16:54
Magic -
Hotel Cristoforo Colon in Palermo has a decent circular swimming pool in the back. I stayed there last December and enjoyed the pool and the proximity to Palermo Viejo very much. It's not in the core mongering neighborhood but readily reachable from Recoleta for about a $2.50 taxi ride or a short bus ride. Room rates were very reasonable last year (~$35US/night) but I've since seen the room rates there much higher. I don't think, however, that they offer daily pool memberships for those not staying in the rooms.
Many thanks Andres and DFB for all the info, much appreciated and very useful - they certainly do help.
God I love Buenos Aires. There are just so many wonderful things about it. I am SO envious of all of you lucky enough to live here. One of the things I love are the parks, my two favourites being the Japanese Gardens and especially the Rosedal, which is just glorious at this time of year, well worth a visit. Today I strolled over and there was a beer advert being filmed (Cruzcampo, which is spanish I think, havent seen it over here), and there were lots of models standing around. Unfortunately I missed the part where they all jumped out of a fountain (damn), but the view was sensational just the same.
I've also discovered an internet bar in Recoleta with superfast machines, with 2 totally private cabinas (downstairs), called Puntocom.bar at Ayacucho 1272. Its 2 pesos an hour I think, and they say they are open 24 hours a day. Theres a bar, you can order snacks, and they run promotions like a free coffee for every hour you spend, a free hour for every 5 pesos that you spend at the bar, etc.
all the best
Magic Hat.
I just spent the past 48 hours in Punta del Este, Uruguay. Most people have never even heard of it and couldn’t tell you where it is on a map. Punta del Este is located on the Atlantic Ocean only 30 minutes by plane from Buenos Aires. I flew to Punta del Este to explore investment opportunities for myself and my clients. I am often asked about Punta del Este but I have never been there so I couldn’t intelligently answer any questions about it.
I expected a small little resort town. I was really impressed with Punta del Este. In fact, I firmly believe it may be one of the most underutilized cities in South America. I have spent the past 3 years traveling all around the world. I have been to most countries in South America, Cuba, Mexico, Canada, the Caribbean and throughout Europe.
The amount of wealth in Punta del Este is unbelievable. The majority of properties in PDE are owned by wealthy Argentineans that purchased properties here with “black money” many years ago. I traveled extensively around the city and saw several properties in various price ranges. It was amazing to see almost all of the properties empty at this time of year. Something that was amazing to see is that Punta del Este is currently only used about 2 months out of the year. January and February are the only months that are really utilized. Property owners are charging tremendous rates for rental mainly in January and also in February.
At night it was amazing to look at all the buildings with only 1 or 2 lights on. The quality of the properties were amazing. I have visited very few places in the world with as high a concentration of luxurious properties throughout the city. The apartments I visited were first class properties with amazing views. Property owners are making about 5% to 6% returns on their investment renting just January and February. I truly believe that Punta del Este can market themselves and attract tourists throughout most of the year. The city is immaculate. There is no trash in the streets. Crime appears to be almost non-existent.
The beaches were nice but the major asset of PDE isn’t the beaches. There are certainly better quality beaches in other parts of the world. Punta del Este is about a certain quality of lifestyle. It’s an upscale environment and wealth is evident throughout the city. Besides the high season of January and February, there doesn’t seem to be a lot to do here. But there are other places in South America to go to stay busy. PDE is a relaxing place you come to with your significant other. It’s a very romantic place that has all the characteristics of becoming a tremendous growth area. I believe that tourism will explode here within the next 5 years. More and more people are finding out about it. 70% of the properties are owned by Argentineans but I firmly believe that more and more foreigners will be buying property here in the next few years.
There isn’t much action in town during the off season. One night I was invited to go to a fashion show at the Conrad (owned by Hilton) which is the biggest hotel in town. It is a 300 room hotel with a casino attached. Very nice property. I guess there is a fashion show every Saturday night. The owner of the fashion show was a personal friend of the gentleman that hosted my trip to Punta del Este. Some of the models were hot.
More Americans and Europeans are finding out about this upscale environment and purchasing here. I saw several lots for sale in La Barra, a popular and trendy area and almost bought a lot of land to build on. There is tremendous growth in this area and there were tons of shops, stores and restaurants being constructed.
My favorite spot was a place I visited called Marina del Este. It was an amazing Mediterranean villa type area with about 60 homes and apartments in a closed community. The views were amazing. It was almost like being in the Mediterranean or the French Riviera. If money were no object, I’d buy one of the places here and live here a few months out of the year when I wasn’t in Buenos Aires.
I see tremendous potential in the real estate market here and I will attempt to do the same thing I am doing in Buenos Aires here in PDE. I posted just last week about taking the same principle of what I’m doing in Buenos Aires and making it work in other parts of the world. Many people emailed or posted that it’s almost impossible to succeed without spending significant time in the area. I disagreed believing that following a sound business plan it IS possible to achieve results and make money. We will see if I’m correct. This was my first visit to the city. I spent a little over 48 hours in the city and I believe I can take the same principles of how I created my business in Buenos Aires and make it a success here in Punta del Este.
I gave some ideas to the gentleman that hosted me and he was amazed at some of my ideas. I plan on partnering with him in a real estate venture in Punta del Este as a 50/50 partner. I want to revolutionize the real estate market here and bring globalization to this industry. I know it won’t be easy but few things important in life are. In the future look for puntaDE.com puntarealestate.com or apartmentspde.com.
Some of you might not think this has anything to do with living in Buenos Aires but what I want to show is that you too can move to a foreign country and start a business with hard work. I basically moved to a foreign country and started a business that generates income within 3 months of moving here. I’m now making more money per month than what I’m spending. Sure it’s peanuts compared to what I was making when I worked in the USA, but it’s a start.
I heard there was no hobby scene in PDE. I didn't even have time to look as I was busy the ENTIRE time I was there. I had several business meetings and was busy the entire time, even in the evenings. I seriously doubt there is any kind of hobby scene here. Just not the environment for it. I did see some hotties. One girl working in a furniture store was hot. I flirted with her and got her phone number.
You must have a car here or rent a car. The city is so spread out. Those that just come here for the summer to play probably don't have a chance to see the entire city like I did. It's an amazing place filled with great properties. Very laid back place. I think it is very romantic and the perfect place to fly with a novia. I hope to buy a property in the future here. The flight is very easy and the flight was from Aeroparque so it was very easy. Flight time is only around 40 minutes and relatively cheap at $150 US with taxes. There are cheaper flights but I bought relatively at the last minute.
I highly recommend going if you're looking at a romantic spot to take a girlfriend with but save your hobby money because I seriously doubt there is a P2P scene here. Good luck all.
Saint
Let me tell you the story of this poor little "Regular member" who wanted to ask some questions and get some answers. He wanted to learn some stuff. He also wanted other member to read his reports and give back what he took out. he thought that was the "raison d'etre" of this whole forum.
Since he had a 48 wait before his posts had a chance of appearing on the forum, by the time they did, they had got completely lost behind all the real-time posts of "Senior members".
Surely there is something wrong with that. Meantime here is a post I would really like to bring to your attention:
Investing in Argentinian Wine
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to thrown a question at you business-minded folks on this section of the board:
"Is there value to be created from investing in the wine-making potential of Argentina?"
This is just an idea that popped into my head a couple of days ago, BUT:
1) I believe that over the next 15 years Top Quality Wine (TQW) will be in increasing demand World Wide.
2) Supply of TQW is not elastic (it takes at least 5 year to create from scratch).
3) Top quality Argentinian wine is excellent and at very competitive prices (and therefore Competitive Costs).
4) Argentinina wine still has to be "discovered" by the masses.
The above is just the seed of an idea. Does anyone want to pick up the thread? I should be in BA in late January or early February '05 so we could meet and brain-storm.
In the meantime can someone please tell me how I can order the stuff from Europe without paying exhorbitant shipping costs which tripple the cost of the final product? (I read something like 100 US$ per case).
If there is no such "reasonnably priced and reliable shipping service", would some of you BA residents like to start up such an activity?
Answers to the second and third question are even more welcome, the wine drinking would inspire me while I better define my business plan.
Edonist.
Thomaso276
11-22-04, 10:42
Saint: two items struck me from your PDE post:
"Sure it’s peanuts compared to what I was making when I worked in the USA, but it’s a start." I remember the concept of making your money in the States and spending it here. The United States is one of the few places in the world where one person can truly succeed with an idea and a plan. Our contry encourages independent thinking and hard work. Although I am no expert, many other countries limit opportunities through a combination of government control and social status. I do not think Argentina has a great history of entrepreneurs succeeding on a grand scale. They have a great history of politicians, cops and foreign governments making big bucks by using their system of corruption and bribes. Making a living is one thing, making big bucks is something else.
"I want to revolutionize the real estate market here and bring globalization to this industry." I imagine there are some good reasons why PDE is only busy two months a year. Weather, attractions and competition among others. It is a beach town and competes with Mexico, Brazil, USA and thousands of other spots around the world that may have more to offer. It is a regional vacation spot and would probably need corporate investment for any dramatic change - like Disney decides to build the South American Mundo de Disney! Of course Snow White is available for private duty.
Good luck with your plans.
I need to leave soon and I was pleased to find out that you can go to Carmel, Uruguay, for 63 pesos, substantially cheaper than the Buquebus to Colonia. First you take an hour and a half bus ride to Tigre, then the boat ride is about another 3.5 hours (similar to the Colonia trip). You have to leave at 6:50 AM but you also get back quite a bit earlier and you only have to spend 3 hours in the town. There is a casino, I guess. Me, I will just drink beer for three hours.
Get tickets at Express Cacciola, Florida 529, first floor #113.
I was in Punta del Este last January for a week of fun in the sun.
It is comparable to summering in Ibiza in the Med or , say, spring break in Ft. Lauderdale. Lots of young people fly in mainly from BsAs and the larger Argentine towns to vacation. If you speak Spanish and know how to party, it is easy to flirt with the chicas and score after a few nights. That's what they come for, tanning and flirting on the beach during the day, dancing and partying at the discos and bars at night.
For those who don't have the patience to seduce a college girl, there is a casa in the middle of town. Just ask the cab drivers for la blanca casa de putis. It's a single story building with rooms along long corridors. There are about 30 rooms, each occupied by a chica who has a full setup inside with bar, bed, shower, music, etc. Almost all the girls are locals from Uruguay, and they charge UR pesos 50/ US$ 15 for an hour of anything you want. The procedure is simple and similar to the Amsterdam red light dist. When the door is open, chica is open for business. Closed when she is with a client or taking a breather.
My friend went there a couple of times a day to sample the buffet. Like a good Argentine he bargained some of the chicas down to 40 UR pesos!!! ($12). (I paid the chica UR 50 for his first session, and he returned with a UR5 discount he talked her into. Shoot, I went back and tipped her. Unbelievable.)
The chicas were about the same standard as what you find in the BA clubs or on Platynum. I only dipped in once as I had flown over my own girlfriend from BA. ($100 r/t). The session was very GFE and unhurried. All the girls were very friendly and never pushy. SOme invited me into their dens to show me their set-ups. Completely decorated, with internet PCs, cold drinks in the refrigerator, massage toys. One even kept a cat!
Prazer
Those exchange rates don't seem right to me, Prazer. There's like 9 or 10 Uruguayan pesos to every Argentinean peso.
You are right. It is about 10:1. Take off the UR designation and make it 50 AR pesos. Thanks.
I spent 3 hours today in a meeting with tax experts. I must say that after meeting with them, I understand why most locals don't pay any taxes. I hate taxes but I hate problems with the government as well. My travel agency is an official travel agency with the city of Buenos Aires, we are licensed and we are paying taxes. I want to do the same thing with my real estate company so I have started to interview various accounting firms. I found an excellent one today.
The tax system here is very complicated. There are many taxes on both the individual and corporate levels. I'll just take a little time to explain some of them to you.
1) There is a land/property tax (ABL) that they bill about 3 or 4 times a year. It is based on the fiscal value of your property.
2) There is a personal asset tax that is due once per year. I guess it's equivilent to our yearly income tax that we are supposed to file. The only difference in Argentina is that no one is scared of the government because they know how unorganized they are and the chances of them getting audited is slim to none. AND if they do get audited, they know they can probably pay a bribe which is cheaper than the original taxes in the first place. (Many things are ass backwards here).
This tax is a tax of all your personal property like land, houses/apartments, cars, etc. (They used to include savings in a bank in this tax but no one keeps a lot of money in banks since they don't trust the government and the government did away with this taxing of savings in banks). The tax is due once per year and is usually due in April (like our taxes in the USA). Take all your personal property and add on 5% and that is your tax. Then you subtract a minimum presumptive of 102,000 pesos and multiply that number by 0.75%. That is your personal property tax. Keep in mind that many locals I know don't pay this tax or if they do it's only a fraction of what they should be paying.
Also, keep in mind that as a foreigner you don't get to subtract the 102,000 pesos from the equation. It's only for locals or residents here or if you have a DNI. I plan to get one by next year so I'll quality for the minimum presumptive. In a nutshell, if you own $200,000 US worth of property here that is about 590,000 pesos. Add on 5% (29,500 pesos) = 619,500 pesos X 0.75% = 4,646 pesos or u$s 1,575.
3) Rental income tax. 99.99999999% of people here don't pay a tax on rental properties that they rent out but they are supposed to. Every accounting firm told me that the governement doesn't care about this as long as you are not getting involved in leasing out your apartment/house for corporate activity.
4) There is sort of like a federal income tax like our version in the USA. It's a progressive tax rate based on your income. It can be as low as 9% as high as 35% based on your income. Keep in mind that a large % of people are working "in the black" or aren't official so the companies aren't paying a tax on them and they aren't taxed.
It wasn't clear and I didn't ask if they have a retirement tax like the 7.45% they take out of our checks in the USA for Social Security and Medicare but I think there was. Most people I talk to tell me they get almost nothing at retirement so if they don't save up for their retirement they are screwed. I met with executives with large companies and they told me they didn't have pension plans so I doubt they are available here. Some of these guys worked for large corporations with USA affiliates. No retirement plan.
5) If you own commercial property that you rent out, you are also taxed with a special tax. (How nice of the government huh?). There is a 3% tax of the gross amount you receive in leasing your property for commerical use. Also, if your leasing it out for more than 1,500 pesos a month you must charge VAT of 21% also. Obviously this 21% is passed on to the companies that lease the space but still I'm sure these is a tremendous amount of "black activity" when it comes to this.
Maybe there are even more taxes. Who knows. I spent 3 hours of listening to the tax structure here and that was enough for me. All the taxes I found out about are applicable to me and I didn't stick around to find out about even more taxes.
I find the system here as I pointed out many times very unorganized and confusing. There is a lot of corruption and in a recent survey I saw, Argentina was listed as one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Look at the list of countries that are worse than Argentina. Only the worst armpits of the world are listed. That shows you how much corruption there is here. (The study was done by Transparency International -A coalition against corruption).
Argentina
Libya
Palestinian Authority
Ecuador
Yemen
Congo
Ethiopia
Honduras
Moldova
Sierra Leone
Uzbekistan
Venezuela
Zimbabwe
Bolivia Guatemala
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Niger Sudan
Ukraine Cameroon
Iraq
Kenya
Pakistan
Angola
Congo, Democratic Republic
Côte d'Ivoire
Georgia
Indonesia
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Azerbaijan
Paraguay
Chad
Myanmar
Nigeria
Bangladesh
Haiti
Anyway, I'm still staying too busy. I'm working more than ever. On a bright note, I already have 3 legitimate people that are interested in purchasing my www.apartmentsrio.com franchise for my asking price of $10,000 so some of you that were laughing before might not have the last laugh. I'm not spending a lot of time on that business plan but as I mentioned, the idea started from seeing so many horrible business plans. This is a solid business plan that will enable someone energetic, bright and hard working to make money in their favorite destination.
Good luck all.
P.S. Thomaso, I'm positive that Punta del Este will become more utilized more than the two months out of the year. Let's look back to our posts 5 years from now and see what happens. Yes, most countries in South America don't have a good history of entrepreneurialism but just because there isn't alot of it doesn't mean there won't be more of it in the future. People that are bright, patient, hard working and that have vision are going to change more of these third world countries. You can't stop globalization and technology. It's only a matter of time before you have more and more of this occurring.
I firmly believe there will be a core group of American guys that are all intelligent, sophisticated, and have some money that will change Buenos Aires for the better. I'm not saying it's going to happen overnight but it's clear to see that if there are major, radical changes it won't be from local Portenos but rather from Americans. I have met with a select few Americans that either live here now or are planning to move down in the near future. I believe you will go back to my posts years from now and say that Saint knew a thing or two about the direction BA was headed. Americans are more willing to take the risk and a chance then the locals are and I don't think that will ever change.
As far as a reason for Uruguay only being utilized 2 months out of the year. I've found Uraguayans are very passive people. They aren't motivated or ambitious. They are sort of content to get all the money flow from Argentineans during January and February. The problem is that many Argentines don't have the money that they used to and have to sell properties. Guess who are buying those properties? Sure, other Argentines but also more Americans, Europeans, Asians and people from the Middle East. You know one of the best methods I gauge who is buying? I go around to the upscale furniture stores and I ask the girls working there who are the ones buying furniture. I did that in Punta del Este. You know what the answer was? Europeans and Americans. More people will discover PDE and more people will buy there and more people will vacation there.
I'm convinced tourism will increase there outside of the traditional hot spots in the next 5 years.
I want to confirm that i have now refreshed my 3-month tourist visa 2x now (giving me 9 months so far) by taking the Buquebus ferry to Colonia and back in the same day.
I don't know how many consecutive times you can do it, but I did want to post confirming that you can definitely do it 2x -- giving you 9 months to decide whether you want to work on getting your residency.
Note: if you do this, remember to keep all the ticket stubs from the leg there for the leg returning to BsAs, they do ask for them.
Edonist:
Wine is not my specialization, but I guess that:
- There is an interesting foreign market (i.e., outside Argentina) waiting out there, but I know some people who was trading Argentine wine in Boston and found it difficult to market it (they succeeded after a while, but they didn't sell thousands and thousands of bottles). I may provide you with that contact, if you need it (PM me).
- Technology, human resources and raw materials for such industry are top notch in Mendoza and San Juan, but bureaucracy is annoying (The National Institute of Wine - Instituto Nacional de Vitivinicultura http://www.inv.gov.ar/ , headquartered in Mendoza, seems to be a place where getting manufacturing licenses prooves difficult to achieve).
- Masses prefer beer than wine. Brewing houses spend tons of dollars in advertising to keep young people attached to the golden liquid rather than to the purple liquid. As I posted before, per capita consumption of wine in Argentina sharply decreased since the mid 70s (to 60% of 1975 values or so). It is hard to convince investors to spend money in a product and country where such product doesn't show significant sales growth (I may be wrong for Top Quality wine).
Briefly, if you have contacts in Europe/US, that "may" work (provided that "denomination of origin", agriculture lobbies and such don't stiffen the current regulations for import).
As for shipping, if I were you, I would contact the most important freight companies in BA and find out about it (yellow pages) when I get there.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Thomaso276
11-23-04, 21:25
Spoke with a fellow "living in BA" gringo at the mansion last week and apparently there are no ATM's giving dollars here. I was told some time ago there are brokers who will get dollars for a fee (maybe 2%).
Anyone have any ideas on how to replenish dollars while living in BA without going to the USA? I have an idea I will discuss with Dave and Jackson this week.
Thomaso,
This is true. It's relatively expensive getting u$s into the country. Imagine all these properties I'm buying for my clients. They all are paying up to 1.5% to get it transferred here. I have my own private account set up here with a private bank that has been around for generations. The % rate depends on how tough it is to get u$s. It fluctuates month to month. A few months ago I only paid 1%. My client that just bought an apartment paid 1.5%. Traditionally towards the end of the year, the rate is higher.
Be careful who you use to transfer money. I've heard some Europeans and Americans that used some shady companies and got burned. Remember that you literally are wiring money into their account and then they bring you the cash. I have a private room that I use and they bring me the money. The sheer volume of activity I'm doing now they are loving me. I would estimate just since I've moved here 3 months ago, I've been involved with almost u$s 1 million flowing into Argentina. (I should get a key to the city..huh?).
I anticipate this number to grow into the multi millions of dollars for 2005. I have REIT's contacting me to invest millions of dollars worth of properties here. Like I said, many foreigners are going to make insane amounts of money in real estate the next few decades here.
Just about every week now for the past several weeks I've put an offer on an apartment to buy on behalf of clients. I don't anticipate this to slow down anytime soon. The tough thing is it's tougher and tougher to find really quality properties so when they pop up you gotta jump on it quickly.
Thomaso, PM me if you need more information on transferring large amounts of money into the country. I can help you. I'm willing to help you out and just charge you the standard rate the bank charges me and not profit at all on the transaction. I can promise you the bank I use is trustworthy. This offer doesn't apply to everyone. Just people that I know or that have been around a while on the boards.
Good luck.
P.S. Before any of you have the bright idea to bring in tons of dollars in cash, be careful. You can bring in as much as you want as long as you declare it but remember that all it takes is one agent that sees you with all that cash calling his buddy to follow you and rob you blind at the side of the road. I do NOT recommend anyone trying to bring large amounts of cash to complete transactions here or start some sort of business. 1.5% might seem like a big amount but when you think of what could happen to your money if you tried bringing it in a suitcase.....you'll probably wish you spent the time to get the money in electronically.
You can withdraw u$s in some ATM's if you have a u$s dollar account here in a local bank. You can't use your foreign ATM card to withdraw dollars though. I'm not sure which ATM machines have u$s but I was told a few do. To be honest, I haven't tried to take u$s out. I have a u$s account but I just go to a branch of my bank when I need to deposit or withdraw. Most Americans I meet here haven't figured out how to open the account. It's not so easy.
Also, if you are planning to retire here or live here many years, you might want to remember what I did (and posted about when I first moved here). I converted 35% of my savings into pesos when I moved here. I did it when it was above 3: 1u$s. Some of you I believe posted it was not a smart move. I disagreed. Lock in the rate when you can so you have less worries about what the exchange rate is doing. Also, when it gets ridiculously high use the same principle. I bought a significant amount of pesos when it went to 3.75 after the crash and I sold them back not too long ago at under 3.0. Extreme fluctuations either way are not good for the economy here. I believe a fair range is between 2.70 - 3.25.
There are several alternatives.
- Open an account in Colonia or Montevideo, Uruguay, at a bank that is also operating in Argentina (Galicia, for instance). There, you can have a safe account and bring the money much easily to Argentina (I know that transfering to and from Uruguay is pretty straightforward). Almost all main banks have an office in Montevideo.
- BankBoston of Argentina offers an account in a Miamian branch of FleetBoston (or whatever his current name) called Bank Boston International. It allows to deposit dollars in Buenos Aires and send them to Miami (maybe vice-versa). In order to open that account, go to Florida 99 and ask for the "Private Banking" office (Banca Privada). You can ask the security guard at the entrance of the ATMs on Diagonal Norte Av. I guess that, in order to open the account, you need at least US$100,000. I guess that Citibank has something similar.
- There are other alternatives, but I have to ask permission to reveal them.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Andres,
You are correct in your post about money transfers and I thought about the Uruguay option. (Remember before I moved here I emailed you asking about the Uruguayan banks). The problem is that it's not convenient to go back and forth with large amounts of money.
BankBoston and other banks do allow you to open u$s dollar accounts but as Andres posted, most of them require you to have a fairly large initial deposit of u$s 100,000 or sometimes more. Who the heck wants to do that here?
You may very well be able to deposit u$s into the account and send it to the USA but keep in mind (and most people forget) that ALL u$s coming into Argentina are converted into pesos. It's some sort of National law here. It's totally crazy but so are most things with the government and doing business here in Argentina. I already posted about this several months ago but I'll post it again for those that don't take the time to read this section.
Say you bank with Citibank in the USA. You have a u$s account in New York. You come to BA and you open a u$s account here in Buenos Aires. You can't transfer u$s to u$s. Immediately when your money hits Argentina, they convert it to pesos and they take a 4 cent spread. Example: You transfer $100,000. They automatically take your $100,000 and convert it into pesos. Let's say the interday rate is 3.0 the day your money hits Citibank here in BA. The bank takes a 4 cent spread so instead of getting 300,000 pesos, you are only getting 296,000 pesos (they gave you the rate of 2.96).
To make things worse, since you must buy property in u$s here. They convert it back to u$s and guess what? They take another 4 cent spread. So when you want to buy u$s if the rate is 3.0 they charge you 3.04. So after it's all said and done you are only getting about $97,368 on a u$s 100,000 transaction. You effectively are paying u$s 2,632 + wire transfer fees of probably at least $35 = $2,667!!
That is why it makes sense to use a trusted company to transfer money into the country. Until they change the system in place, it is the most economical and safest way to bring in large amounts of u$s. Trust me, I've looked at ALL the alternatives. I am talking to another bank now that approached me and is interested in working with me and getting a chunk of my business. She is talking about much lower rates but I have to research this company more. The company I'm currently using I've had referrals from other Americans and locals that have used them for half a century. I've also used them several times with no problems whatsoever.
Most banks established as societies in Uruguay have offices in BA (open only to account holders, not to the public). They can transfer Dollars from Montevideo to Buenos Aires and vice-versa.
Since the transactions between Montevideo and US cities are arranged pretty easily, paying for the money transfer services from Montevideo to BA should solve the problem.
What I mean is that it isn't necessary to cross the river to get the money.
Andres
Andres,
I'll research this and find out. I was told though that U$S dollars from anywhere are automatically converted to pesos. I'm not sure if it matters if it's coming from Uruguay or USA. I'm not sure though. I'll ask my banker and find out. Thanks for posting. That's what this section is all about. To better educate those living here or moving here. Take care.
Saint:
As far as I know, most of that money is delivered through private courrier, so it doesn't get "into the system" until you deposit it on your local Argentine account.
Andres
Costanza12
11-24-04, 21:09
Can anyone help out with some of the basic costs in BA? I saw some posts on rents, food and they were helpful.
Can anyone tell me about maid costs? I am considering making this move as well (juggling it with some other countries) and just am trying to get as many details as I can.
If anyone knows about marinas as well that would be great. I'd like to keep a boat but cannot get costs out of anyone I have spoken with.
Thanx all!
P.S. Does anyone know how to upgrade to regular member? I cannot make a new post and the link (regular mbr upgrade) just doesn't lead anywhere.
Hi Saint,
I would like to ask you a question as you seem to have broad knowledge of local procedures.
Wanted to open a bank account last week ( Banco Rio ) but couldnt due to lack of Argentinia Citizenship and local property. So my question is : If I want to buy any Argentine property but can not open bank account? I am sure there is a way to do it but unfortunately I am back in Europe again and have to wait until Chrismas before I am back in Buenos Aires.
Highly appreciate any of your comments and you are always welcome for a dinner/drink if you feel like it.
Saludos Kiko
Andres,
I'll research this and find out. I was told though that U$S dollars from anywhere are automatically converted to pesos. I'm not sure if it matters if it's coming from Uruguay or USA. I'm not sure though. I'll ask my banker and find out. Thanks for posting. That's what this section is all about. To better educate those living here or moving here. Take care.
Andres and others,
I checked with my banker and just as I expected, by order of the Central Bank, all dollars are converted into pesos no matter where it is coming from. Andres, I don't know what private courier you use but I sure don't trust a courier bringing money across the border. As I posted, I doubt there are ways of converting money into u$s without a cost to get it here. I just don't see it but if I'm wrong, someone please email or PM me so I can utilize it.
The safest and most cost effective way I found is the method I'm using.
Saint
Most of the movements that I talk about are not reported to the autorities, thus that mandatory conversion to Pesos doesn't apply. I guess it's risky, but scams also happen with legal transactions, and many foreign banks have worked that way for decades, so I don't see much inconvenience on it.
Andres
I'd still rather do business with a company that has been doing business for generations then trying to use some system of trying to get it over like Andres is talking about. The other thing is I'm sure there is a fixed % cost to get it over here even if you use his method. There simply is no way of getting u$s here without some sort of fee involved. I'm convinced of it. The cost of getting u$s into the country comes at a cost-- short of bringing it yourself (or with a friend) in a suitcase.
I found out some other interesting information today. The government doesn't stop you from working if you have a student visa. You only will have problems if you are trying to work with only a tourist visa. I seriously doubt anything would happen to you if you are working here on a tourist visa but still it's good to know.
I started the process today of converting my student visa into a working and resident visa. I don't anticipate problems. All of you that are trying to do it on your own might save money but you'll run in circles with paperwork, getting things notorized, etc. It's not cheap getting assistance with the paperwork but it's worth it to me. I found a highly reputable and respected company that is going to work on getting me a working and resident visa and my DNI so that I can get residency. The cost is about u$s 1,000 + 21% tax. They can get a local driver's license for you for another $200. I opted not to as I have an International Driver's license already.
Many of the things I'm doing I can probably do on my own but I don't have the time. I'm quite sure now that I'll live here probably forever. It feels good getting many things accomplished and I like the challenge of growing a business in South America. I get a real sense of satisfaction from watching my company grow. I honestly think I have a shot at becoming the largest property management company in Argentina in a few years.
I've been emailed by many on this board thanking me for posting all the information on the real estate stuff so all those of you that aren't interested in it, please continue to skip over my posts.
The cool thing is that since I'm out and about all day in tons of meetings with all types of companies, everyone is trying to fix me up with their sister, aunt, cousin, friend or family member. I'm going to try to make an effort to take more personal time and have some fun.
Take care all.
Saint
JackDaniels
11-26-04, 19:14
Are citizens/residents of Argentina allowed to hold accounts in other countries ? If they are, why not do the whole transfer off shore ? So if I buy a property from you, I pay you from my account in the US to your account in the US in USD.
JackDaniels,
Citizens of Argentina can have accounts in other countries. Many citizens of Argentina have money stashed away in Uruguay and the USA. (I think I read somewhere there is an estimated u$s billions stashed overseas -- personally I think this is much higher as I know individuals here that have millions themselves overseas). The problem is that after 9/11 it's not so easy for a citizen here to open an account in the USA. Before it was quite easy and I even opened up an account for a girl that I befriended here in Buenos Aires a few years ago. Now it's much tougher. Possible but not so easy and it takes the help of family members or close friends in the USA. However, many of the locals here have passports from European countries like Italy, Spain, Germany, UK, France, etc. They can come and go as they please to Europe and of course open accounts in Europe.
One thing I noticed is the people here are very untrusting of one another. Especially when it has anything to do with money. I really don't blame them after the history of them getting screwed.
Your missing the point though. I already posted on this before. Even if you are conducting transactions with locals that already have an account in the USA, they still want to close the deal with u$s cash on the table. Here is why. As i mentioned several times, there is a cost to get u$s into the country. So if I'm buying an apartment for u$s 100,000 from a local that has an account in Miami. He wants that cash in his hands in Buenos Aires. If he tried to bring $100,000 to BA it would cost him money to get it here. Rather than pay that cost to get it here he would rather have you pay to get it here. The other reason is that most of these people don't want to be under the watchful eye of the IRS or any governmental agencies. Cash is King.
You know what? I don't blame them and if I ever sell my apartment here I'll still demand that the buyer pays me in u$s here in Buenos Aires. I'll most likely use it to close on another deal here so why not demand it in cash. I know it's a silly way to conduct business but many things here in the business/government world are crazy.
I don't see Argentina digging their way out of this mess for a while. Just as I've always observed since my very first trip here. This mess will take a long time to sort out. Until there are radical changes, you won't see too much progress.
I still believe outside investors/foreigners are going to be a big part of any recovery that takes place here. In the form of tourism dollars/euros, buying property here, starting businesses, etc.
Saint:
I think that you are calling "dark yellow" to what I call "light brown". That is, the service you might be using is roughly the same as I am using. We may be talking about similar services, just with different names.
As of bank accounts abroad, I can guarantee that an Argentine citizen, non-resident in the US can open a bank account in an NA (National Association) bank even after 9/11. However, in order to do so the person will need to get a SSN, which only certain foreigners can get (students, foreign workers, etc).
But in case that a person cannot open an NA bank accont, there are non-NA banks that open accounts to foreigners, which are even more convenient than NA accounts because you can receive deposits, write checks, wire money and pay NO taxes on interests (the foreigner should sign a W-8 form). Also, a foreigner can be a holder of a NA and non-NA account at the same time (I can guarantee it, too).
It is estimated that Argentinians hold roughly US$100 billion abroad, and many people may want to take more money abroad. I agree that buyers would like to see the money when signing the "boleto" (bill), but for a different reason: Because of fear of getting cheated by the notary and the sellers, instead of needing the money in BA.
Andres
JackDaniels
11-26-04, 21:06
It sounds like all the seller and buyer have to do is to open non NA accounts in the US. The Argentine attorneys doing the property conveyancing will also need to have US affiliates. By having this kind of arrangement, the sale of the property will close in Argentina once the funds have been transferred in the US. The Argentine attorneys will get notification of this from their respective US affiliates. The only residual problem is for the seller in what they do with the sales proceeds. If they can write cheques on the US account, then it is not much of a problem.
A lot better than walking around town with USD 100,000 or more in a briefcase.
Andres,
Nope. I'm not arguing with you. I only addressed your comments that one way to cut costs is to do it with your method. My argument is that I don't think your method would be cheaper than the method that I'm using. Can you please post the costs involved in doing your method as ultimately that's the important point that I'm trying to make? My point has always been that there is a cost to getting u$s into Argentina. Nothing more, nothing less.
JackDaniels. I still don't think you get how the system works here. The method you are talking about will probably never happen here. Many things here are "primitive" compared to the USA and Europe.
Many of you Regular Members are asking basic questions that several of us already covered. Go back and take the time to read the valuable information in this section. Many of us took the time to post on budgets and how much it costs to live here. Don't be lazy. We are providing a FREE service posting to help those living here. The least you can do is take the time to start at the beginning and read every post. It's the least you can do if you're thinking about leaving your life and moving to a foreign country.
Many of us have answered many questions that you guys are asking over and over regarding money and budgets.
JackDaniels:
What you say may work well with people who have resources to an independent, reasonably fast justice system. That is, a system where scams and frauds can be prosecuted with tangible results. Those living in Argentina know that sueing a cheater may take years if not decades (and may take forever if the cheater has friends in the justice). That's why they don't want to take the risk of performing an operation that way.
The mistrust in the system comes from many, many frauds widely known and never punished. For instance, on the late 80s, a bank called Buenos Aires Building Society (BABS) issued foreign term deposits for an account in a Panama branch and managed by a local but separated division of that bank. All of a sudden, that division closed their doors and the employees of the local branch said to the frauded customers "You have to claim to that bank in Panama City, Sir/Madam. Your deposits are there". Crazy, huh? Nobody went to prison for such scam, not at least until BABS got broken by the early 90s. And this is just one story among tens.
Andres
Saint:
I don't have the numbers here, but I guess that I would pay fees similar to yours. That's why I say they may be similar services. In any case, I never brought money to Argentina, but the opposite.
Andres
The system in South America is quite strange with government workers going on strike all the time. It happened to me in Rio de Janerio when I tried getting my CPF (equivelent of our social security card). The government workers were on strike and I never got the documents in over 2 months of waiting.
I had an appointment to get my police record checked and to get fingerprinted here in BA (which is required when you get residency here). I heard yesterday that the appointment that I had today would most likely not be affected because of the connections of my immigration attorney. Bingo. I went today and the office appeared to be closed. The main entrance at Tucuman 1357 was closed with a sign that said the workers were on strike. The funny thing is there was a seperate entrance on the building next door and we breezed in and went to the front of the line. The employee from the immigration attorney went with me, and told the police who she worked for and we didn't even have to wait 2 minutes in line. Even though there was a strike, the office was functioning but I guess they were just doing work for people that maybe were paying extra or special situations. I'm not sure. Interesting to see it though.
I went directly to the main person that handles this. They literally kicked out the person that was in the office and I took his place. I filled out some forms and I got fingerprinted. The funny thing here is they fingerprint all 10 fingers. The office was supposedly closed but it is open for various VIP business I guess. The really funny thing is they said that with the strike the office was open on Monday but closed again on Tuesday. It's really strange how they do business here. It was quite clear that my immigration attorney has a lot of pull with the office here and the police.
My partner who has lived here all her life also has an attorney and she had to get some paperwork filed one day here. She waited in line 3 hours and still went away with nothing accomplished. She, like many locals refuses to pay any additional money so it takes much much longer to get things accomplished. This is an example where working with the right people makes all the difference in the world. The government employee that helped me was very polite and told me that everything would be ready for me by Monday morning. I'm not sure how long it usually takes but something tells me the system usually isn't this easy.
It wasn't cheap paying the immigration attorney but this is a good example how paying extra accomplishes alot and saves a ton of time and ultimately money. I was in and out of there in less than 15 minutes. I still expect to get residency here later this month or maybe in January if everything goes smoothly.
Saint:
January is the vacation month for the public sector, so anything not accomplished by Dec 31st would pass to Feb 1st on.
What you had to do is exactly what many people (locals or foreigners) should do if they need some documents and are in a hurry. For instance, getting a passport takes several weeks, somethimes months, but if you have the right contact, this person can "buy" a passport immediately for you (in 2-3 days).
It's good to see that things move on for you.
Cheers,
Andres
Hot To Cool
12-03-04, 22:01
Dear Saint,
I think yours is a case of "gringo" preferential treatment, where "gringo" doesn't just mean American, but may also mean to include some foreigners. Growing up in the ROC, I saw many instances of Americans having privileges that natives did not have. Of course, the ROC-USA relationship was at its best back then. Having an influential immigration attorney doesn't hurt either. Given the PRC's plans to invest in Argentina, do you think I would get the same treatment if I were to to file the same paperwork you have to file? Using the same attorney, would I get the same "gringo" preferential treatment?
Sincerely, HTC
John Rider
12-05-04, 06:45
Saint,
I will like to be very short about fingerprints. Becouse the WSG is for better things than fingerprints. But maybe you want to look in yahoo for this 2 words "Juan Vucetich". Argentinians like you say "funny things" know for what to use your 10 finger prints. I'm born in Argentina, but I also remember putting 10 fingers to grab the residence in U.S. About the rest is as you described about having the right contact.(Nothing new for the locals).
I will love to join the mansion members club in my next trip to argentina in couple days more and also do my contribution.
Trust me guys. Being American had NOTHING to do with my special treatment. There were other foreigners in line standing waiting in the doorway and they were refusing to see them telling them the office was closed.
Trust me, this had EVERYTHING to do with the lawyer I was using. They knew who he was and it was clear that he does a lot of business with the right people or he pays them well. I'm sure he pays them to get things done.
You guys are wrong when you say that just because a person is American they will get things done. Quite the opposite. I've mostly heard of Americans getting the run around, filling out endless paperwork and waiting. The level of stupidity with the government and the system is endless. Being American doesn't mean crap here. It's connections and knowing the right people and paying the right people. That's what it's about here. The vast majority of the Americans I have met here in BA can't speak any Spanish. (Hell, they can't even order an escort over the phone themselves....how the hell are they going to get government paperwork done???--get real).
Yo fellas.
I thought I'd post something kind of funny. It's clear that foreigners are doing a tremendous amount of buying of the real estate here in Buenos Aires. I look at property almost every single day. I'm running into the same foreigners everyday that are basically doing the same thing that I am and buying as much premium property as they can for themselves, their family and their clients. I ran into this Italian guy yesterday and I've seen him at about 5 apartments now so we had a coffee and chatted about property. He also believes that property prices are going up. He owns property all over the world (in 25 different countries) and believes this is one of the best opportunities. Funny on the last 2 apartments that I bought he was getting ready to make an offer and one of the ones I wanted to buy yesterday he just placed an offer. The one I bought he was bidding against me. It's important to note that he wasn't planning to rent them out. He is just speculating the value of the property will increase over the next 5-10 years. The cool thing is he might have me manage some of the properties he is buying so I'm glad I suggested the coffee.
Anyway, today I bought another apartment for one of my clients. Get this. The ink wasn't even dry on the boleto when another one of my clients offered me u$s 10,000 more than he paid (free and clear not even counting the realtor's fee, the lawyers fee and the finder's fee). He is considering it. $10,000 in one day is hard to pass up but I'm advising that he doesn't sell as I think premium property in Recoleta will pass $2,000+ per sq. meter in the not so distant future.
Most of the new requests I'm getting from people wanting to buy are Europeans and especially people from the UK where their strong currency is making u$s prices seem cheap. These Euros though are pushing up the prices of property here. One guy from the UK bought a small 38 sq. meter apartment the other day near the Alvear Palace for about $1,800 per sq. meter. It's a double edged sword for me because as a property owner of multiple apartments my apartments are soaring in value but on the other hand I plan on buying about 50-100 apartments for clients over the next 2-3 years and that will make it more expensive for all these clients. :(
Anyway, I can't complain. I hired another employee the other day and life is good. I'm headed to Montevideo tomorrow for 2 days. I'm getting ready to hook up with a great guy I met last month that came to close on the apartment he bought. Tonight should be a fun night. I see things here improving economically and my prediction several years ago has held true. I predicted the value of the peso would stay between 2.75 - 3.25 and it's done exactly that.
Yossarian99
12-11-04, 04:27
I spoke to a branch employee here in California yesterday and she told me if I opened a Citibank account in the US, I can withdraw up to US$1,000 per day from a Citibank in Argentina without having to pay fees.
Can anyone confirm this?
I am asking because I know local laws prevent bank branches across different countries from "comingling" funds and accounts, eventhough they are the same company. It helps the governments to better control their money supply.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Yos
Yossarian,
I have 2 U.S. Citibank accounts and a $1,000 daily withdrawal limit on each which operates in that way in the U.S.. However in September in Buenos Aires at the Citibank in Recoleta or on Santa Fe the maximum daily withdrawal I could make was 900 pesos on either account. Having more than one account can be helpful if you need to make larger withdrawals. I'm getting ready to move to Buenos Aires at the end of December and will have 3 U.S. accounts so I can withdraw maximum in each, also in case there's a problem at a particular bank, the machine eats the card, etc., etc.
Hope this helps.
One more thing - there were no fees for withdrawing cash and the conversion rate of dollars to pesos looked to be the best available on the dates I withdrew.
I spoke to a branch employee here in California yesterday and she told me if I opened a Citibank account in the US, I can withdraw up to US$1,000 per day from a Citibank in Argentina without having to pay fees.
Can anyone confirm this?
I am asking because I know local laws prevent bank branches across different countries from "comingling" funds and accounts, eventhough they are the same company. It helps the governments to better control their money supply.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Yos
As well as fees, it's worth considering the spread on the exchange rate.
For example, PayPal is low on fees, but takes a 2.5% margin on the interbank rate. It would work out less expensive with a bank that charges a fee per transaction, and a margin of 1.5%.
In general there are two kinds of limits on ATM withdrawals
1) Your home bank's daily limit, and
2) The per transaction limit of the local ATM you use.
You can find machines in BsAs with a transaction limit of 1000 pesos, but they are not so common. The ATM just after customs at EZE arrivals will give you 1000, for example. And any other ATM from the same bank (Banco de la Nacion, was it?). I'm sorry I don't remember the names too well.
Also it can be useful to look beyond the name of the bank and look at the name of the network they use. There are two common ones (Banelco and Link?) One was no good with my foreign Visa cards (Banelco, I think). The other one was fine.
To Yossarian99
I have a Citibank account in the US and regularly use Citibank ATMs in BA for Argentine Pesos with no charge. I have never been able to get US dollars through Citibank in BA.
Stormy
Yossarian99,
Nope. The lady was wrong in the USA. You´ll find that the USA reps usually don´t know what they are talking about when it has to do with banking in Argentina. (Sounds like more of the case of her wanting you to open a new account). I said it before and I´ll say it again. There is NO free way to get U$S here without some kind of fee unless you´re bringing it in yourself on the plane. The laws here are such that they will convert it to pesos first. Trust me, I´ve explored MANY options to get U$S here as cheap as possible. Call her again and ask her to explain to you in detail how you would do it and I bet she tells you that she was wrong.
I also found Cachorro´s comment of not being able to easily find an ATM machine that will dispense up to 1,000 pesos to be wrong. It all depends on your bank in your home country and NOT the ATM machine in Buenos Aires. There might be exceptions but I am able to get the equivalent of u$s 500 per day or roughly 1,460 pesos at one time every single day. I do it at ATM machines all over town. Some of the banks I use are Citibank (multiple locations), Banco Rio (multiple locations), Societe General (multiple locations), HSBC (multiple locations), Banco Nacion (multiple locations) and many other ATMs throughout the city. I´ve found it depends on your bank at home and not the individual ATM machines in most cases.
All my ATM cards have a u$s 500/day limit but as I posted countless times before, 1/2 of them only let me take out 500 pesos each time and the rest let me take the equivalent or about 1,470 pesos at one time right now. If you're moving down here, open an netbank type account which is great for transactions and withdrawals.
HappyGoLucky
12-12-04, 23:23
Ditto with Saint. I've always been able to withdraw $1400 pesos from any of the Banco Nacion ATMs in Buenos Aires. In fact, there's one in the EZE airport around the corner from the information kiosk right before exiting the building. I always take my first withdrawl there.
I have a Citi Bank account in california. Each time I visit the citibank at
Alvear and Callao I up the withdrawal amount.
Yesterday I got 1790 pesos. This is way better than the 500 peso limit at other ATMs
If you want to save transaction fees, go for the max you can get. I'm not sure what HSBC, Bank of Boston, or others do down here.
BTW there is a wallet store at Suipacha 866 that carries a great selection of
¨hidden wallets¨ ie. under the shirt wallets. Its on the same block as Excedra.
Jackpot.
Here's the post I made on this 09-27-04 in General Info.
Quote:
For General Custer, and others who have hit the 500 peso at one time ATM limit. I went around on this issue with a new card I got. I called VISA and my bank.
It appears the problem is in the network in Argentina. Probably a hangover from the old parity days $US500=$ar500. My bank wasn't even SEEING the transaction, it was rejected before it got there. I tried various Argentine banks, so it is not the Argentine bank. So I assume some networks have the problem. So calling your bank doesn't help, there is nothing that they can do. VISA was no help.
I have ATM cards that allow more than 500 pesos at a time, and others with the 500 peso limit. So try all your cards.
End Quote.
Once From the Top: There are 3 different limits involved here.
1. Some machines, like the ones I used at bank ITÁU, have a limit of 1000 pesos(or some other #) per TRANSACTION.
2. Your bank has a limit PER DAY.
3. Some NETWORKS have a limit of 500 pesos per TRANSACTION, as above. The network involved is tied to the card, not the bank in Argentina, it seems. It is not LINK.
4. On the per TRANSACTION limits, it is not even necessary to remove your card from the machine before initiating another withdrawal.
5. You obviously cannot exceed any of the 3 limits with a single transaction.
Gentlemen,
I checked this thread back and forth and could not find any useful information on how to open a local bank account as a foreigner.
This might be a stupid question but if I want to buy property and do not have a bank account to pay for expenses etc. Is it actually possible to open a bank account without wanting to buy property ??? Please , someone help me out here.
Many thanks!
Saludos,
Kiko
Kiko,
It IS possible but not probable. It took a lot of jumping through hoops. I do have a peso account and a u$s dollar account which is very convenient. Try going to a bank and asking but everyone else I know here hasn't managed to open one. Wanting to buy property here has nothing to do with you opening an account here. It's all in who you know and your account status with that bank in the USA or the UK. Basically, they aren't going to lift a finger to help you unless you are a VIP client of their offshore bank. I don't just mean you have multiple accounts. I mean, you are in their elite level clientele and you have a personal banking manager. If you don't have that kind of account, you can pretty much forget it.
Opening an account is difficult here. I know people that lived here for a few years and still don't have one. I got one within 2 weeks though due to my relationship with my bank and when I told them of my plans to purchase a high level of properties but more importantly do a lot of business with them (buy property insurance through them, use them for my corporate checking account, corporate savings account, etc.)
Kiko,
Saint is correct.
I do own property in Argentina, and I am partner in an Argentinean company, and do not have a personal bank account. As Saint says, you are running against a wall. I tried - in the company of my Argentinean business partner, so language was not an issue - with 2 banks, one just plain refused referring to some obscure law (that does not exist), and the other required me to have a steady source of income within Argentina - and that's not normally the case in the startup phase of a business.
hope that helps
El Alemán
In order to open a bank account, it is necessary to have a DNI (National ID). That ID let the bank check your credit history through Veraz (a local credit history service, similar to Experian).
Once you get your DNI, it is very easy to open a savings account. After 3 years, it is possible to have a checking account and a credit card (banks usually request a copy of the last 3 presentation-formularies to the federal tax agency AFIP, formularies similar to the IRS's 1040).
Be aware that having a credit card is necessary but inconvenient as well. My Argentine VISA credit card charges me ar$200 of service fee per year ($65) and every statement printout is charged ar$8 (not to mention that interests go up to 35% per year). However, I need it to pay for some services when I'm there (HMOs, ISPs, etc).
On the other hand, I barely wrote checks in the last years. I guess that many stores are reluctant to take them, and for paying periodic fees (condominum expenditures, monthly newspaper fees, etc) it is possible to do direct debit on a bank or by cash.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Andres is partially correct. In some cases, as I already mentioned, you do NOT need a DNI. I don't have one and I still managed to open one. You do need a DNI to have a checking account though. The problem is that getting a DNI is very difficult and time consuming. You have a better and easier chance opening a bank account than getting a DNI.
The government is painfully slow here and as Andres pointed out before, they take all of January off so I'm not sure if I'll get it by January. Probably February now. Bummer.
Yesterday and today, Clarin published a couple of articles related to getting a DNI.
I post the URLs so you can find out (and practice your Spanish).
http://old.clarin.com/diario/2004/12/14/sociedad/s-03015.htm
http://old.clarin.com/diario/2004/12/14/sociedad/s-03104.htm
http://old.clarin.com/diario/2004/12/15/sociedad/s-03802.htm
The first one deal with the "fast track" for Argentinians. You can get it if you are a National in just 2 weeks, but you have to makea line for 6-8 hours before the opening (that means spending all night outdoors making the line). It seems that the main problem is getting a recently issued birth certificate.
The second one mentions that foreigners can run their errand at Chacabuco 1260 (in San Telmo), an office devoted exclusively to non-Argentinians. There is also an office for "urgent errands" at Diagonal Norte 689 (you get it the same day), but may be only for Argentinians.
The third one announces the opening of new public offices to speed up the process.
My advice for those of you intending to get their DNI: Find out at Chacabuco 1260 what documents you need and what stamps to get (Secretary of State, The Hague Convention stamp, US Embassy, Argentine Foreign Office or Consulate, etc)(Since US and Argentina signed the Hague convention, the Hague Convention stamp should suffice, but ask anyway). Then, when you come back to BA, go immediately to Chacabuco St office (the same day, if possible) to start the errand. And wait...
Hope this helps,
Andres
No way getting a DNI is easy at all. I don't know of the places Andres listed but I doubt they will be easy to get a DNI for an American. I'll try to find out more information but getting a DNI here is a pain in the ass.
Like Dickhead, I had my worst day in Buenos Aires. Maybe my life. I consider myself to be very careful. I have traveled around the world and I am aware what´s going on around me. Anyway, today I was with a client that is closing on an apartment tomorrow. We had lunch at La Strada in Recoleta Village. It was a nice day so we sat outside near the entrance of the restaurant. I had my laptop computer with me as usual in my case along with several other important documents. I had it no more than 1.5 feet from me. It was literally right next to me. I had my client sitting across from me so he could see anyone that was approaching the table. Anyway, I got several calls throughout the lunch. One moment my laptop is there and the next it is gone. Neither of us could believe what happened because neither of us saw anything.
It´s clear this was done by a professional thief. There was no one suspicious around me. I remember reading Dickhead´s post about getting ripped off at the Mansion and I had an eery feeling that wasn´t good. I guess it was a bad omen because a few hours after reading it I was also a victim. Only I didn´t have just a few hundred pesos. My life was on that u$s 3,700 laptop. All my personal stuff, business stuff, photos, etc. I also had my digital camera cord along with many important legal documents.
I´m really in shock and I´d give a thousand us$ just to see a video of how they got it. No one in the restaurant saw anything and I don´t remember anyone suspicious walking by us. I heard nothing. It is really amazing. Be very very very careful with your personal belongings. I´d honestly rather have been robbed at gunpoint so at least I know how it happened. Anyway, my life will be a mess the next few days trying to get a laptop, changing keys and getting the personal documents again that I had.
Oh well. Nothing I can do. I filed a police report and waited in line a long time. Probably one of my worst days of my life.
Guys:
Buenos Aires is beautiful and charming, but it's still the Third World. You should take extra precaution ALWAYS.
I guess that these things would happen sooner or later.
Let me give you some tips:
- Unless you come from Alaska and are desperate to see the sunlight, there is no reason to take lunch outside. It is ALWAYS an unnecessary risk. Eat inside the place. In case that you want or have to dine outside, ask the maitre or manager (or whatever) to store your stuff in a safe place.
- I know that some of you are working and need to carry appliances/documents, but remember: A cheap laptop will suffice for out-of-office work (Excel, Word, etc) and, unless you strictly need your documents that afternoon, DON'T CARRY THEM. Don't carry neither your passport, or your DNI, nor your credit cards. Bring the minimum out of your home (which to me equals to "into the jungle").
- Carry the most you can in your front pockets. Avoid too crowded public transportation and, if unavoidable, grip one hand in the handle and put the other on your pocket.
- Wear plain clothes (you can do that without looking like homelesses). Did you notice that I never dressed up while in BA?
I would bet that the theft in the restaurant was performed by personnel from the same restaurant, in coordination with some customers, or by customers who look rich and take advantage of their looks to not raise suspictions. These people wouldn't let that happen out of their control because it can ruin forever the reputation of the restaurant. I would offer some cash to the personnel if they can recover the stuff and promise not to report anything further to the Police.
I may be taken as paranoid, but I always leave home thinking "I WILL be robbed today. What will I lose of all that I carry on?" That makes me minimize the risk.
Be careful,
Andres
I can't remember the name of the band that wrote that song but I believe it to be true. I agree with a lot of what Andrés says but not his essential message. If you truly believe the streets of Buenos Aires are a jungle, why be here? Of course, he isn't here any more which tells us something.
I never use credit cards in BA but I carry one (and only one), always. If I get robbed of it, my liability is limited. I carry one in case there is an emergency like for example I have an accident and want to go to a private hospital instead of the public one.
It's sort of funny because yesterday before I went to the Mansion I withdrew my daily funds and I was thinking about only taking out 50 pesos, which would have given me enough to enjoy the day out there (BTW as I have posted before, I have a self imposed withdrawal limit of 500 pesos a day so if they kidnap me and pistol whip me until I bleed out my ears it will still take them a very long time to drain my account). Instead I took out 190 thinking it would cover the evening as well. I guess that decision cost me 140 pesos; I don't get charged for ATM withdrawals so I could have made another one later in the day. Also another moral of the story is I should have fucked the first gal who offered, instead of waiting until after lunch. Then they would have stolen 100 fewer pesos and I would not have been so sexually frustrated. Especially since the one who offered first I think was the one who stole the money anyway ...
You could leave your credit cards and your passport in your apartment so they wouldn't get robbed on the street, and your apartment could get burglarized. It's a trade off. Like Saint posted, I'd rather get robbed and know what happened. That's just me. Not gonna live my life in fear.
I will live in Buenos Aires a very long time and I won't stop eating outdoors because of this. I enjoy the outdoors, especially on great days like today. This won't make me paranoid but you can be damn sure I'll be more careful. I still for the life of me can't figure out how they did it. I'm positive it was done by people that were dressed nice or fit in, as Andres mentioned. I eat here all the time and nothing like this has ever happened.
Unfortunately, I have to carry a laptop around as I'm jumping around from meeting to meeting. Oh well. While Andres makes good points, this incident won't make me more paranoid. I'm just amazed that it happened with someone sitting across from me.
I did tell the waitress if she could help me get it back I'd pay u$s 1,000 with no questions asked. She said that she didn't see anything and then she said that if we didn't even notice it then most people around wouldn't notice either and the thieves were good enough not to let anyone see them. The restaurant was not packed but there were other people. Hard to imagine no one seeing it. Oh well. Like I said, nothing I can do now.
I guess that this point is difficult to explain, a kind of cultural gap, but I'll try anyway.
In Argentina, people get accustomed to these things happening. They still enjoy life and take their risks, but they have their developed radars on most of the time for such things, as Americans did in some other ways. For instance, an Argentinian living in America can get surprised of how people developed "antibodies" to "phone marketing", something VERY annoying to those not accustomed to that. However, once you get the idea of how to live aside with it, things don't appear that much molesting.
I guess that living in a jungle could be acceptable, provided that we can live up with the consequences. In fact, one of the countries I would like to visit is Colombia, one of the most dangerous places but one of the better prepared to have fun. I would chose Cali instead of the Scotch highlands to retire, not matter how safe the latter.
Andres
In response to something Andres posted about Buenos Aires being a Third World country so expect theft.
That which happened to Saint can and does happen to people here in the United States all the time. I doubt being a Third World country is the reason. People are people and crime happens everywhere, especially electronic items.
Stowe
Want a jungle? try NY, Rio or DC. Buenos Aires is a picnic compared to those places.
Saint, you need to try and live without a laptop in your meetings, you are just asking for it. dont think they wont brazenly take it from you while you watch. i was in BA for a month and a couple of weeks ago i was having lunch at Pizza Cero outside and watched a guy take a womans purse, watch, and ripped an earring from her ear while literally 50 or so people watched, unable to react quickly enough. He then casually walked away to an awaiting motorcycle and sped away.
A friend of mine was assaulted by 2 dudes with guns and forced to give up his car in plain daylight in the micro center. it happened so fast, no one even noticed until he said something.
Take care and sorry you had to have such a terrible thing happen to you.
California Guy
12-21-04, 06:36
I am just wondering from the experiences of those here which would be safer? Have there been more thefts from one or the other that you know about?
Also are there many instances where people will rob you at gun point here or just come up and start mugging you in broad daylight? Won't people help you if that happens? I know people from both Argentina and Brazil and I couldn't imagine any of them letting something like that happen in the middle of the day if they witnessed it. Obviously if someone pulls out a gun then there is no choice. Anyway I won't be heading to any of the bad areas, hopefully I can figure things out.
Well take care and if anyone else wants to hang out while I am in town it may be better to stay in groups as well, at least while out looking for ladies. My dates will be in BA from the 11th-15th.
Late,
Cali
Saint,
The bad it is for you, but things like that happen all over the world. Some time ago, I parked my car in front of my company's branch office in a small town in Holland, on a busy street, for a short meeting, and when I came back after about an hour, the car's lock was picked and my luggage including my laptop that has been in the trunk gone. And that was not in the third world, but in the very first world Netherlands. And when I finally got out of the damn police, all shops were closed and I could not even buy a toothbrush and some clothes to change.
The probably only advise is, carry only things you can afford to loose (like a cheap laptop, not the multi 1000 $ thing), and do regular backups of the stuff you have on it. Speaking from experience....
And I also would NOT stop eating outside. Andres, you cannot imagine how nice it is for people who grew up in the cooler parts of the world to enjoy a warm climate. We get addicted to it in a way.
Anyway, Saint, sorry for you.
El Alemán
I lived in BA from MAY02-SEP04. I kept my banking in the US and got my cash from ATMs on the Plus network. Used to be able to take out 1000 pesos from any location and that suddenly stopped.
Asked my U.S. bank and the Argentine banks and even some lower level people in Banelco the ATM service provider that has the relationship with Plus. Everyone said it wasn't them. I suspect Banelco.
However you can make two (but not three) back to back withdrawls and get out 1000 pesos in 500 peso increments. You will be charged two fees, so you'll have to decide if it's worth it.
Hey guys,
Thanks to all of you that PM'ed or emailed me nice emails. I agree with what the majority of people are saying on this forum. BA is a big city and any city with this many people will have crime. I understand Andres points and I have found that many of the locals (including my co-workers) are almost paranoid like Andres is describing. They always warned me to be careful since I stick out in a crowd.
I dress nice and I have to for work. That won't change anytime soon. I won't stop eating outside. The only thing I'll do differently is I guess be more alert. I'm telling you guys that I'm very careful. My client that was with me lives in Venezuela and also is very alert. I for the life of me can't figure out how they got it. I can understand if I just left my bag there unattended or went to the bathroom, etc. I never got up from the table and either did my client. I guess it's very common. Since this happened, many locals have told me of similar situations where they had their purses or bags taken when it was next to them or in the chair next to them. One guy told me how someone stole 100 pesos from him that he had hidden in the hidden pocket (that small little 5th pocket on the front of many blue jeans).
Anyway, I already ordered a new computer from Dell that my friend is bringing in January. Thanks to all of you that emailed me offering to bring me down a new one. Happy Holidays all and I hope the person that stole it burns in hell.
Saint
JackDaniels
12-21-04, 20:27
It sounds very much like an "inside job". The only people who become "invisible" are those who totally blend in to the environment. Staff are naturally prime suspects, though I would not like to cast aspersions lightly. It only takes a moment of distraction and sleight of hand to make something disappear. Magicians do this all the time.
Yes, this looks like a professional job; or at least one done by a gifted amateur.
Saint, sorry about your loss. My guess is that it was NOT an inside job. It was much more probably done by a group of 2, 3 or 4 people. You won't remember it, but at some time there were probably 1, 2 or 3 people who passed by you that were interesting for some reason. While you and others watched them, someone else walked by and took your computer. It could also have been, for example, 2 in front and one behind about 10 feet. Or 2 on one side and the thief on the other.
I had my pocket picked on a bus in San Jose, Costa Rica by a group of 3 people. One created a diversion by dropping his "glasses" on the floor in front of me as we exited, another behind me blocked me from backing away and further diverted my sensitivity to touch by pressing against me, and the third from the seat beside me picked my front pocket as I was standing in the aisle trying to exit the bus. These people have the patience of a spider to ride the bus all day and wait for just the right opportunities.
The great danger of eating outside is that there is a far greater opportunity for thieves to case the tables of the diners, and pass thru the dining area without raising the suspicion of the staff. I don't remember the restaurant where this happened, but most of the outside tables are fairly accessible to casual passers-by. Obviously, if one has a choice, always try to select a table in a inaccessible area near a wall or other obstruction that limits interaction with passers-by.
You have to realize that if you look at all like a gringo tourist or rich person, you are being watched constantly by people who are looking for the right opportunity. I had $60 stolen from my parked car in a supermarket parking lot in Puerto Rico because I had the stupidity to take money from my hiding place behind the visor JUST AFTER I PARKED THE CAR IN THE LOT. Obviously, someone was watching. They opened the door, took the money, and re-locked the door.
It's amazing how difficult it is to flag down a taxi this time of year around downtown. The past few days when I leave my office I've had to walk around a good 15 minutes to try to find a taxi. They are all full around downtown during the day. I've been told it's this time of year more and more of them are full as people are using them more.
Today I was in a hurry and had to meet a client and had to walk around 20 minutes or so looking for one. Sucks.
Lexton,
Regarding your post, I did select a seat just as you mentioned. It was against a wall and I thought this would be the perfect place to sit. I had my computer pushed in against me and my client against the wall. I didn't notice big groups of people walking by. Hell, we weren't even distracted by hot girls. We still can't figure out how they got it as we didn't notice any young kids around and my client was facing me. I was on the cell phone quite a bit during the lunch and looking through my Palm Pilot (thank God I pulled it out at some point during the lunch). But still, my client was facing me and the computer case.
I would give anything to see how they managed to get it. These thieves are good. I mean really good. I'll never forget this incident and you can bet that it won't happen again like this. Maybe I'll get robbed at gunpoint or knife point but my bag will never mysteriously disappear again. I've been damn lucky traveling around the world the past several years with no incidents whatsoever. I was due for something like this I guess.
It's been hell trying to reconstruct all my business stuff as I had my whole life on that thing. A good lesson. ALWAYS back up your files.
The weather has been perfect the past week or so. I guess things could be worse so I can't complain. I bought another apartment in my A1 building (for a client) which will be totally posh with possibly even nicer furniture than A1. Demand is still very high for higher end luxury apartments and hotel rooms and I don't see any sign of a slowdown anytime soon. I'm trying to buy a smaller petite hotel for a client so I hope it goes down in 2005. I'll be damn proud if it comes together as I put the whole thing together and have invested some money hiring architects and designers to go through the building. It will be awesome! Happy holidays all.
Saint
I was on the cell phone quite a bit during the lunch and looking through my Palm Pilot (thank God I pulled it out at some point during the lunch). But still, my client was facing me and the computer case.
On the streets of NY some years back, I was fascinated by the old street hussle shell game. The hustlers would set up a cardboard box, and start to shuffle around three playing cards, two black cards and a red card. They would have a partner play to start things off, always winning or course, to draw in the unsuspecting tourist. The idea was to have the player guess the location of the red card, and the bet was usually twenty dollars.
I would watch as the tourists would lose over and over again, thinking "how could they possibly lose?", as I knew the correct location every time. That was the rub though, as I was not playing, only watching, and did not realize how much of a disadvantage the tourist was playing with until I tried it myself.
Within about 30 seconds, I was down $40. I pulled away and watched from the side, and saw how they did it. The cards were shuffled continuously, with the red card being turned over from time to time. When a tourist would say that he could locate it, the dealers said, "Give me $20." As the tourist handed the dealer $20, at the very instant the money touched the dealer's hand, his other hand switched one of the black cards with the red card. It was done so fast, the human eye being focused on the actual money transfer, did not see it.
Being on your phone and going through your Palm put you at a very large disadvantage, as you were focused not on your case, but on other things. Magicians have used slight of hand for years to entertain us, but it can also be used against us.
No offense against your client, but could he have been the competition in disguise, getting you to relax your guard, while others did the deed? Just a thought.
Moondog
HappyGoLucky
12-23-04, 02:03
On the streets of NY some years back, I was fasinated by the old street hussle shell game.
Wow, what a trip Moondog! That's the exact analogy I thought of when I read about Saint's laptop. I lost $10 or $20 on the shell game near Broadway and 52nd in the '70s. Now I finally know how it was done; I've wondered all these years! (I also lost my favorite sunglasses sitting with friends at an outdoor table in a cafe in Old Havana; somehow the thief took them right off the middle of the table before all our very eyes!) We all have stories...
When living in BA my wife and other women would do the following. Put the leg of your chair or table through the strap of your handbag or computer case. It will complicate the snatch and make them look for other targets.
Theives in Buenos Aires are among the best. You know that park in front of tha Marriott Hotel in Microcentro? I was there one afternoon during a photo display an Argentine had his expensive watch pulled off his wrist, the thief was out of the park and on the back of his partner's motorbike and off in a cloud of dust, all in under 30 seconds.
I agree that these thieves are like magicians. It's good that so many posts are posted as follow up comments. I hope it causes all of you to keep your guard up. As far as my client being involved. No way possible. This is not only a client but also a friend. I know this guy well and have known him for a few years. He is one of the good guys. We still are baffled how they got it.
Yes, I was busy on the cell phone (as always) and searching through my Palm Pilot scheduling appointments. Anyway, like I said... it won't happen again. Just stay on your guard and watch your things. If you are carrying bags, watch them like a hawk.
Happy Holidays all.
Saint
Actually, Custer's last words were: "Where did all these fucking Indians come from?"
Thomaso276
12-23-04, 21:05
As long as we are talking security issues let me put my two cents in. Many other people can read this board, possibly including more sophisticaded thieves, or worse. I think it might be a good idea not to let others know how much money you may or may not control. Some numbers mentioned herein are just about ransom level and would certainly raise the interest level of those looking for targets. This is kidnap country boys. If you get my drift.
I didn't want to talk about that issue since is repelling for many (especially coming from a local who knows better), but the real danger to well dressed, well groomed, foreign visitors is kidnappings: Physical abuse (no food for 1-2 weeks, torture, even finger maiming in order to get info), psychological sequels, etc.
Be aware and, as Thomaso276 said, don't mention many Dollar figures in this public board (or any other indicator of wealth). I KNOW that local mongers read it (they told me). If possible, don't follow an easily traceable schedule (like always taking breakfast at the same nice coffee shop or visiting the same restaurant every Thursday).
As strange as it may sound, the most important kidnappers are VERY wealthy people, the kind of guys who would buy Saint-class properties. For instance, "El Negro Sombra" was a famous gang boss who owned more than 100 homes at different country clubs. So, if you mingle with wealthy Argentinians, pay double attention. They are wealthy for several reasons, among which could be "fast fundraising".
I guess that the AmCham (American Argentine Trade Chamber) provides leaflets of how to take basic precautions. Call the Embassy and find there the AMCham number.
I feel that I have to express my sorrow for having to talk about such nasty issue in this board.
Hope this helps,
Andres
So I guess my risk of being kidnapped is a little lower than Saint's? BTW all you kidnappers out there, I always eat breakfast at La Biela and dinner at Cabaña Las Lilas. At night you can usually find me at Black and in the afternoons look for me at Patio Bullrich. If you want to kidnap me on the weekends, I'll be at the polo matches. Also I jog regularly in Puerto Madero. Unfortunately I am leaving tomorrow for a month's vacation in Punta del Este but you could probably kidnap me in the private Mercedes Benz limo I am taking to the airport, if you act fast.
All good points. Andres, can you tell us though how many foreigners have been kidnapped over the years? I haven't read anything about foreigners/tourists getting kidnapped but mostly locals. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd really like to get statistics.
As far as the guys buying properties. Ironically, they aren't "really wealthy guys" but just hardworking folks that really love the city and want a good return on an investment.
As far as the business climate here, it's really corrupt. It's no wonder that people prefer doing business with an American rather than a local. The #1 reason why I'm getting new clients is because people do NOT want to work with a local. I've never had a more difficult time dealing with people that change the price at the last minute (even after you have agreed on a price), changing the terms or changing conditions. I don't trust the locals at all as far as business goes other than the small circle of professionals I have come to trust.
I'm being more careful now and Andres made some good points. I don't meet up with new people and I have a close circle of friends I go out with. I don't meet up with many WSG guys and prefer not to. Those of you moving down here, just be careful. It's still a beautiful city that I really love but make no mistake that you're in South America. The level of corruption here is unbelievable.
So I guess my risk of being kidnapped is a little lower than Saint's? BTW all you kidnappers out there, I always eat breakfast at La Biela and dinner at Cabaña Las Lilas. At night you can usually find me at Black and in the afternoons look for me at Patio Bullrich. If you want to kidnap me on the weekends, I'll be at the polo matches. Also I jog regularly in Puerto Madero. Unfortunately I am leaving tomorrow for a month's vacation in Punta del Este but you could probably kidnap me in the private Mercedes Benz limo I am taking to the airport, if you act fast.
I guess that your risk is being kidnapped by a pack of hungry gatas who already know your cooking skills. The ransom would be cooking for all of them for a whole month and having sex afterwards with ALL of them.
Andres
As long as they do the dishes. "Cocino yo pero lavan UDS." And don't put the empty condom wrappers back in the drawer, por favor.
Hey, that even rhymes!
All good points. Andres, can you tell us though how many foreigners have been kidnapped over the years? I haven't read anything about foreigners/tourists getting kidnapped but mostly locals. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I'd really like to get statistics.
As far as the guys buying properties. Ironically, they aren't "really wealthy guys" but just hardworking folks that really love the city and want a good return on an investment.
As far as the business climate here, it's really corrupt. It's no wonder that people prefer doing business with an American rather than a local. The #1 reason why I'm getting new clients is because people do NOT want to work with a local. I've never had a more difficult time dealing with people that change the price at the last minute (even after you have agreed on a price), changing the terms or changing conditions. I don't trust the locals at all as far as business goes other than the small circle of professionals I have come to trust.
I'm being more careful now and Andres made some good points. I don't meet up with new people and I have a close circle of friends I go out with. I don't meet up with many WSG guys and prefer not to. Those of you moving down here, just be careful. It's still a beautiful city that I really love but make no mistake that you're in South America. The level of corruption here is unbelievable.
Saint:
Every other week there are stories about tourists who disappear or get in trouble. In this week's Clarin newspaper, it was mentioned the missing of a Swiss woman, I guess at Mendoza. My take is that these cases are rare and do not follow the typical kidnapping pattern of weeks of intelligence data gathering.
Your case is borderline, since you are a semi-foreigner, semi-local, as an expat manager form a multinational company, with the advantage (or disadvantage) that nobody may be a good reference to pay ransom for you. You may ask an expat manager to know how he/she deals with that.
I didn't mean that your customers are those wealthy Argentinians. I just meant that these people buy the class of property that you sell. As far as I know, your niche is the foreigner who wants a high quality service and top property. As you pointed out, many local people is untrustworthy, so it is a smart move to focus on foreigners.
Andres
Aussie Greg
12-24-04, 12:33
Dick,
How did you get on last nochie !!!!, we dragged dos out of the same place ( good value )
We tagged teamed them.
I like these smaller places and there are some gems there.
All the best, if your not at the Mansion Christmas barbie, all the best for christmas dias.
Aussie Greg.
In the five year period from 1999-2003, there were 116 reported kidnappings involving non-Argentinean victims. Of these, 44 were US citizens. Of the 116, 63 were released after paying a ransom of some kind. 26 were killed before ransom was paid. 18 were killed after ransom was paid. 5 were released without ransom being paid, and 4 were freed by the police.
Sources: www.purotrucho.com.ar , www.esunchiste.com.ar , www.matachetos.com.ar
Jaimito Cartero
12-25-04, 16:01
For example, PayPal is low on fees, but takes a 2.5% margin on the interbank rate. It would work out less expensive with a bank that charges a fee per transaction, and a margin of 1.5%.
I've always considered that I've gotten good rates for exchange in other countries. 2.5% sounded quite high. I withdrew money here in Costa Rica yesterday, and was charged less than 1% difference than the official rate. Perhaps in some countries it's variable, but I've always considered this card a pretty good one to use, as it's worked in every country I've ever gone to.
Thomaso276
12-26-04, 19:18
I do not know why but suddenly Fox (Ch. 17 on Cable) carried Packers / Vikings on Christmas Eve; Oakland and KC yesterday and today (Sunday) Indy and San Diego and now Cowboys and Redskins. Before all I ever found was ESPN Sunday and Monday nite games.
A pleasant surprise and hopefully they will continue coverage through playoffs.
Jaimito,
I agree with you. I think it depends on the country. I've used my Paypal.com debit card in every country (except Cuba) that I've traveled to and it's been the only card that has always worked without problems. The rate was always really good too. Far too little to notice anyway.
Also, for those of you that try to get a taxi for holidays like Christmas Eve or New Year's Eve coming up. You better book ahead of time. Most companies don't take reservations that night because they are booked ahead of time. Luckily I found a driver that I convinced to work on his night off. He took me and my date around on Christmas Eve. I saw literally hundreds of people in the streets trying to flag down a taxi to no avail. The same can probably be expected on New Year's Eve. All the remise companies I tried to use were all full so it was a wise move. It wasn't cheap but well worth it after seeing so many people trying to flag down a taxi. If you know of a special taxi driver, see if you can pay him to work that night or if he has a friend that is willing to.
I've been crazy busy trying to get things done and catching up from restoring information from my laptop being stolen. Anyway, I'm happy to report that Santa is bringing me a new Dell '17 inch laptop soon from the USA. I also decided to take a much needed vacation to Brazil for New Year's Eve. BA is usually dead around this time. Most of my amigovias are out of town visiting family. I'm flying to Rio on Thursday and will try to make it to Buzios to get some beach time although the prospects of finding a hotel in Buzios is probably slim and none. I'll relax in Rio if I can't make it to Buzios for a week or so.
Life is still good but would be much better if my laptop wasn't stolen....Happy New Year's all.
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