View Full Version : 2005 General Reports
I have spent the past week in Rio and although I had a ton of fun it makes me realize how damn lucky and happy I am living in Buenos Aires. Rio as a sex destination has always been better than Buenos Aires with the termas but the general trend of the quality of girls deteriorating or leaving for Europe has stricken Rio as well. I noticed far far fewer hot model type girls in places like Help and Barbarellas. Help usually has several hotties and I struggled to find even 1 or 2 the past week. I did pull out 2 very pretty girls but the scene has really deteriorated there.
I am anxious to get back home as I have a lot of work to do. God bless Argentina!
Member #1036
01-09-05, 15:07
I am buying an apartment in BA and will be going there in February to buy furniture and household goods.
Do you guys living there have any suggestions on where to go to buy these things?
I don't want the cheap as you can find but want a fairly good quality furniture as I need it to last and needs to show well.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Regarding buying furniture. Read this section of the forum. It has been discussed several times.
Stowe
Member #1919
01-10-05, 22:17
I'm planning of staying in Buenos Aires for 3 week in February and was wondering if it makes sense to shop around for some cosmetic dental treatment (like teeth bleaching). Something is telling me it must be less expensive than in the US.
Has anyone had any experience with dental clinics in BsAs? What are the prices and the quiality of service?
Gracias!
Furniture Buying: As Stowe pointed out I have already posted on this. Still, it is the New Year and I am feeling generous so I will give you a good hint at a store that has some good stuff. Some of my clients don't want to buy custom made expensive furniture like I put into some of my properties. For those I have sent to Della Casa on Uruguay Street in between Arenales and Santa Fe. Ask for Maria. She speaks English and their prices are lower than most stores in town. You can get good dining room tables, chairs, comfortable chairs and couches, TV stands, entertainment centers, beds, etc. there. Ask for a cash discount. Definitely ask for a cash discount.
Re: Cosmetic surgery: BA has excellent physicians in the cosmetic surgery area here. It's definitely cheaper than anywhere in the states. Just ask around for a good doctor with a good reputation.
P.S. Several guys from WSG have been emailing me asking me for free advice about buying property here. I have already spent a lot of time posting FREE information here about buying property. I no longer answer emails about this. I only provide detailed information to my consulting clients. I charge a fee anywhere from u$s 600 - u$s 1,000 to help you buy property here. It really isn't a lot when you consider all the problems you could have if you don't do it right. If you can't afford this, you can't afford my services.
Please no more emails asking for free advice. I feel I have already provided enough free information. I have earned a great reputation for finding many people great properties that they are making fantastic returns on. I honestly don't know any other single individual that is buying more property here than me. My predictions about real estate here have come true. Property in some posh areas of Recoleta have now surpassed $2,000 per sq. meter. I don't see a slowdown in foreign property purchases here. I'm starting to get more upmarket clients. I had a client today make an offer on a u$s 1.2 million apartment. For more information, you can always go to my website: www.apartmentsba.com Good luck fellas. Living here is the greatest experience of my life.
Champagne Boy
02-04-05, 23:02
Hello!
I have followed this and the Argentinan forum for some time (mostly the photo-section..hehe ;) ) and have now decided to go on a trip to the two countries. Well, to be honest, not only for women, but alot for the nature aswell. But hey, nature is better seen together with a woman.
I basicly know where to go to find nice girls to pay for, and more or less some clubs for freebees, but I wondered if any of you guys know a good site for meeting women? Normal chat-boards or dating-sites, like lycoos in France. Not the one you have to pay 200$ for every reply you want to make to a girl. I'm going in 2-3 month so I wanted to be prepared and maybe find some nice friends down there.
Any tip would be much appriciated!
Oh, pardon my spelling, but it's in the middle of the night and I'm dead tired... =)
HappyGoLucky
02-16-05, 16:50
Found a great little barbershop in Barrio Norte yesterday near the Million restaruant. It´s called La Peluqueria (of course) at Paraguay 1486, near Parana. It´s a barbershop and they don´t appear to do women (more´s the loss...) and a guy named Omar Pezzelatto gave me a great haircut, better than I think I've had in the States. Phone 4811-1103 or 4812-6874.
What did Omar want for the cut?
HappyGoLucky
02-16-05, 17:25
What did Omar want for the cut?
$20 pesos; sorry, I should´ve posted that!
Hello!
I wondered if any of you guys know a good site for meeting women? Normal chat-boards or dating-sites, like lycoos in France. Not the one you have to pay 200$ for every reply you want to make to a girl. I'm going in 2-3 month so I wanted to be prepared and maybe find some nice friends down there.
Any tip would be much appriciated! =)
I have used YUPI.com which is now a part of the much larger Match.com. Tremendous listing of women of all ages for Buenos Aires. But I assume you can at least write/read fluently in Spanish. If not, you can forget it. Also I found that the BA women were more difficult to connect with compared to Mexico or Spain where I have had great success. Not sure why. But they seem rather picky and not the least bit impressed with Americans - unlike Mexico. In the end, I exchanged letters with 3 different ladies yet didn't meet any of them. Strangely, one of them finally wrote me back after a year +, telling me she was now in love with me. Go figure . . .
Good Luck, -P
Thanks for the tip on the barber shop, went to Casa China for lunch this afternoon, very passable Chinese food by the way on Viamonte 1476 - you have to ask for the chopsticks, and walked a couple of blocks down Parana til I found the place. Omar did the cut, trimmed the goatee and the whole business for just as you say, $20 pesos. He actually listens to what you want done! While they may not do women, I think it's Salon Masculino, there was an attractive young tart that came out and asked whether I would like a cafe, water, soda which gave it just the right touch. I've never been wild about having my hair cut in a room full of women anyway.
Omar was great and remembered the rubio extranjero who had his hair cut there earlier.
Walking further down Parana, towards Santa Fe, I passed another small Salon Masculino - looke like two chairs. As I'm going to be living a few blocks from there next month very happy indeed. Always wanted to be able to get a local cut and razor shave. City life in BsAs is great!
Zarathustra
02-17-05, 23:41
I have been thinking about buying a small apartment in BA for some time now. I would prefer in the Recoleta area or very close. Any one have suggestions for something about $150-$200K USD? What can I expect in that price range?
Would also like recomendations on property managers for when I am not there. I only plan to spend about 3-months of the year in BA and a few trips off and on, the rest of the time I would likethe unit rented out.
The last time in BA I only briefly looked at real estate, and most of the agents where pretty lazy and not good at returning calls. I found the experience very frustrating and time consuming. I have lived in 3rd world countries for years, so it is not like I expect American work performance, but normally my experiences in other latin countries is that when they see the money they move their asses. Not so with many of the real estate guys in BA.
Any advise is welcome.
HappyGoLucky
02-18-05, 12:04
Cousin,
I suggest contacting "Saint" if you´re interesting in purchasing property. Saint helps Americans purchase property and he´s right on top of the game in BsAs. My impression here is that real estate brokers do not cooperate, i.e. there is no MLS service in Argentina, and consequently it may be advisable to contact many inmobiliarias (agents) to see a lot of different properties in the Recoleta. Aside from that, the purchase process can be very tricky and Saint is an invaluable resource. You can contact him via this board. If you have trouble contacting him, let me know and I´ll make some calls to locate him while I´m down here.
Walking along Azcuenaga and always on the lookout for the Mom and Pop pharmacies that Dickhead said don't ask for a prescription before handing over the goods I decided to give this one a try at Azcuenaga 1235, a couple of blocks north of Santa Fe.
Bought 2 25mg tabs of Sedus Suldenafil and 2 20 mg tabs of Cialis. The Sedus brand is considerably less than Pfizer which they also carry. A local company I think.
2 Suldenafil 25 mg @ $ 5.95 pesos and Cialis x 2 @ $44.84 pesos. Today I bought another packet of 2 Suldenafil at $5.80 pesos, less than $1.00 a piece.
If you don't speak much Spanish write it down for them: Sedus or Pfizer Suldenafil . they'll bring it out for you. You then take the box and the bill to the front and pay the guy in the plexiglass box.
I will be cuming down to Bs.As. in oct/05, I understand there is too much pussy and you guys cannot handle it all. I would like to put together my budget for approx. 4-5 months. I need 1 bdrm apartment in nice safe and quiet area. close to transit and with all the amenities, eg. dishwasher , washer dryer for clothes ,real dsl for laptop, cable and satilite and good t/v,(being canadian i have to see my hockey games) (I won't be there if they don't get the nhl sorted out cause there will be mass suicide in canada if we have to go another year) (I think this is a terrorist plot,and you yanks are next when they take your nfl football away from you).
1-Apartment with all the bells and whistles , how mucho?
2-Golf course within 30 min. (got that)
3-Pussy at good price ,3-4 a week?
4-Gym for workout , 3-4 times a week?
5-A big wad of cash (getting that) ????
I really want to thank all of you for all the information on this thread. I have wanted to move to BA since the first time that I visited it in 1972-1975, when I was a courier for NSA delivering items to all the embassies and consulates throughout Central and South America. In November 2004, My wife and I took a tour through Brazil and Argentina. And although I didn't have a chance to check out the mongering, I was even more impressed with the BA as a world class city and have decided that I will move there in the next 3-5 years. So I have started learning Spainish again and starting to liquidate several properties I now own in different places and will take that money and invest in buying property in BA. But that will take some time, so I am only started looking into it.
I have read the entire forum and I either missed it and misunderstood it. Dickhead wrote that he lives in the Bario North area and I looked on one of Saints maps and couldn't find a Bario North. Could this be the same as Belgrano? Thank you for the help.
I have used YUPI.com which is now a part of the much larger Match.com. Tremendous listing of women of all ages for Buenos Aires. But I assume you can at least write/read fluently in Spanish. If not, you can forget it. Also I found that the BA women were more difficult to connect with compared to Mexico or Spain where I have had great success. Not sure why. But they seem rather picky and not the least bit impressed with Americans - unlike Mexico. In the end, I exchanged letters with 3 different ladies yet didn't meet any of them. Strangely, one of them finally wrote me back after a year +, telling me she was now in love with me. Go figure . . .
Good Luck, -P
Well... my first post here, and in general after a long while.
For FREE Internet dating sites, try:
- www.ciudad.com.ar -> Te Busco
- www.terra.com.ar -> Busca tu pareja
- www.solitarios.com (paid service, but you can "tweak" the rules and girls contact you)
All in Spanish (maybe Solitarios, affiliated to a worldwide network, have profiles in English)
Try them. It doesn't cost more than some time to create the profiles and may provide GREAT rewards (I met some 4 non-pro girls willing to play, and a dozen willing to engage).
Caveat: These girls may end up really attached to you, so take into account the psychological side-effects of playing with them.
Hope this helps,
Andres
I will try not to be a pest, but since I am serious about moving to BA, I am looking to the many experienced people on this board for their wisdom. I have went through all the reports and haven't found any mention of available building sites. With some of the posts saying that some apartments are selling for up to $2,000 per sq ft, I was wondering if there are still good to great building lots available in Rocelleta (sp) or Bario North. And what would the average price range be for the lots?
In 1983, I was stationed in Korea. I was told that base housing was not available for me and that I should move to off base quarters and that I would receive a supplemental allowance for it. I looked and looked and could not find anything that I liked. Then I found several building sites that were perfect, so I checked into buying them. I found out I couldn't buy them since I was an American serviceman, so I went to a Vietnam buddy that was Korean and he purchased one of me in his name (which worked out great). I had to invest about $25,000.00 cash total for the lot and building. I built a three apartment house (two - 2 bedroom apartments on the first floor and my 3 bedroom 2 bath on the 2nd floor with large patios). I had my buddy have the base come out and inspect it, so it could be listed on base. It was approved and I signed a "lease" and received a $650.00 a month supplement to my pay. The bottom two leased for $575.00 a month and have never been vacant for more than a week since I built it in 1983. I built several others after this, and am very happy I did (although the cost of building them have went considerable higher than the initial one) My Korean friend makes 10% for managing these apartments for me, plus a very good maintenance fee. And now that I am retired from the service, they are all in my name.
All my properties have appreciated greatly over the years, but I don't think that with the cut backs in US Forces in Korea that I will continue to make the returns that I am currently making. It is probably time to sell and reinvest this money in BA where I will be living in the next few years.
Jaimito Cartero
02-28-05, 00:06
With some of the posts saying that some apartments are selling for up to $2,000 per sq ft, I was wondering if there are still good to great building lots available in Rocelleta (sp) or Bario North. And what would the average price range be for the lots?
I believe you may be speaking of 2000 per square meter. That's about $200 per square foot. (Aprox 10 sq feet in a sq meter).
Daddy Rulz
02-28-05, 05:52
I don't think there is a sp centimeter let alone a square meter of undeveloped land in Relocletta. However I'm sure you could find somebody you could bribe to let you buy a park. I really think you would have to get wayyyyy into the western suburbs to do what your thinking. I have some friends in Hurlingham and it's pretty nice out there.
I must have been reading meters, but thinking square feet! If it was $2,000.00 per square foot, it would make BA one of the most expensive areas in the world. At $200.00 per square foot it makes it equal with most medium to large size cities in the USA.
I wonder what the costs for building is?
I must have been reading meters, but thinking square feet! If it was $2,000.00 per square foot, it would make BA one of the most expensive areas in the world. At $200.00 per square foot it makes it equal with most medium to large size cities in the USA.
I wonder what the costs for building is?
Construction costs were in average $500/sqmt (average quality) in 2001 before the crash. Now prices should be slightly lower.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Thank You Andres for the information.
During my July-August visit, I plan on checking this out extensively. Hopefully, everything will work out and I can find a neighborhood that I like with building plots and can get started.
ImJustAvg:
What most people do is to buy an old house on a trendy neighborhood and revamp it. Palermo Viejo used to be the place to do so, but now it got too expensive.
Before 1999-2000, people used to buy old houses in poor condition (structural or so) by $50,000-70,000 and then renew them for $30000. Today, I guess that prices of these houses increased by 50% in Palermo Viejo.
The good things of these houses are that you are relatively close to downtown and Recoleta while living in a neighborhood, and that some of them, if having a wide backyard, can fit a pool and a parking lot, something hard to find in Recoleta.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Thank You Andres for the information.
During my July-August visit, I plan on checking this out extensively. Hopefully, everything will work out and I can find a neighborhood that I like with building plots and can get started.
ImJustAvg, a word of caution: the economy in Argentina is terrible compared to South Korea.
Who are your customers? Might your success in the Far East have something to do with the ready availabilty of GI tenants? Or the efforts of your local partner?
Andres;
Thank you for that suggestion. It is well worth looking into.
Hunt99;
It is true that the Argentina economy does not compair favorably with the South Korean economy at this time. However, when I started investing in South Korea it was in the early 70s and continued until their economy improved to the point that it was too expensive to build and then rent for a profit. All of my properties have increased in value over the years to the point that once I sell one I can invest in a lesser economy and purchase two, three and more apartments. I recently sold a building in Seoul with five apartments and turned around and purchased 12 apartments in Russia (granted not in Moscow but Saint Petersberg, Novorgord, etc.). Renters? True. in South Korea, I rent to DOD contractors and GIs. In Russia, I am renting to Consulate employees of several countries and also I have four on long term lease to a travel agency. With the growth of tourism in Argentina tourists are an opinion. Also many multi-national companies are doing more and more business there, so long term leases are possible also. Consulates and embassies also need long term rentals.
In my opinion, the South Korean property values are at peak or near peak values. Since I no longer plan to visit South Korea on a yearly basis and plan on moving to Argentina in the near future, it is time to start moving my assets to a place I will live and to locations I plan to continue visiting.
The bottom line is that I hit the best time to invest in South Korea, now I have hit the best time to sell my South Korean properties and invest else where!
Yossarian99
03-12-05, 01:04
Am planning to take a spanish class in BA for 6 months. But having just visited Cordoba, I might just move here instead.
BA is OK, but Cordoba has tons more chicas. All walking around with those tight pants and skinny stomachs. So skinny that there is that gap at the hip bones. You guys know what I am talking about.
Plus, it´s cheaper to rent an apartment here. US$400 per month for a really nice furnished one-bedroom.
Lots of hot girls walking around with fat boyfriends. Gives me lots of confidence.
Will post more later.
Yos
FormerGaucho
04-02-05, 10:25
Fellow mongers,
Just posted info on Health Insurance under the "Living in Argentina" section.
Please let me know if you'd like further info.
Keep Safe! FormerGaucho
Construction costs were in average $500/sqmt (average quality) in 2001 before the crash. Now prices should be slightly lower.
Hope this helps,
Andres
After the crash in late 2001 many things hapen, perhaps, 2005 model average for real estate it depends a lot on the neighborhood;
This is an average from a research made in 2005 by myself, only in Brand New Contrusction
Puerto Madero: USD 2.000,00 and more per Square Meter
Retiro: USD 1.700,00 / USD 1.500,00 per Square Meter
Recoleta USD 1.600,00 / USD 1.300,00 per Square Meter
Barrio Norte USD 1.300,00 / USD 1,100,00 per Square Meter
Las Canitas USD 1,500 / USD 1.700,00 per Square Meter
Belgrano USD 1.300,00 / USD 1.000,00 per Square Meter
Now, in my opinion, the best areas for buying now are in Las Canitas and Belgrano while Puerto Madero is an excellent option, seems like there is need of long time to recover the investment.
After the crash in late 2001 many things hapen, perhaps, 2005 model average for real estate it depends a lot on the neighborhood;
This is an average from a research made in 2005 by myself, only in Brand New Contrusction
Puerto Madero: USD 2.000,00 and more per Square Meter
Retiro: USD 1.700,00 / USD 1.500,00 per Square Meter
Recoleta USD 1.600,00 / USD 1.300,00 per Square Meter
Barrio Norte USD 1.300,00 / USD 1,100,00 per Square Meter
Las Canitas USD 1,500 / USD 1.700,00 per Square Meter
Belgrano USD 1.300,00 / USD 1.000,00 per Square Meter
Now, in my opinion, the best areas for buying now are in Las Canitas and Belgrano while Puerto Madero is an excellent option, seems like there is need of long time to recover the investment.
You are right. It depends on the neighborhood, and I saw similar prices to yours last week on Clarin.
Las Cañitas is good for tourists. However, I heard that the zone is getting too saturated with restaurants and trendy bistros, which makes many locals avoid moving there (few spots to park, a lot of noise during the weekends, etc).
Puerto Madero has many ups as a new neighborhood (high quality construction, renovated neighborhood, close to downtown) but lacks the ancillary services that other quarters have (supermarkets, etc).
Cheers,
Andres
Spassmusssein
06-08-05, 10:41
...you will always find on
www.som.com.ar
Whatever you are looking for in Argentina (zone, App/House/Ground, rental or buying) you find there to get an orientation of the actual prices. In som (a group of well-known and solid real estate brokers) all the brokers are working together, so if you hafe found an r-e-broker you can trust in, he will share comission with the other guy but yust represent YOUR interest.
I rarely read WSG anymore because I'm so very busy now with 3 companies under my belt. I felt obligated to post though to respond to Spassmusssein's post. I have been told that I am purchasing more residential real estate in Buenos Aires than anyone in the world. I believe this to be true based on the volume of property that I am purchasing for my clients. I average 1 or 2 apartments EACH week for my clients.
I have worked with just about every major realtor firm in Buenos Aires. I can tell you one thing with certainty. Realtors here are almost never looking out for YOUR best interests as Spassmussein mentioned. A realtor here has never told me, "Saint, this is too high priced. Let's offer a lower price". Realtors look out for THEIR best interests. Always remember that. Realtors are paid a commission by both the buyer and seller so their objective is to help you pay the highest possible price. What I do for my consulting clients is tell them what a fair price to pay is based on the market. I don't really want to mention the actual dollar amount of property I have purchased since moving here but let's just say it's VERY significant. I have also been inside over 900 apartments now in my search evaluating property. Probably more than most realtors.
Remember there is no real MLS system here and there are no "comps" (comparables) because most locals record a false price on the title deed. There are so many ways to get scammed here. I will probably write a book someday about my experiences in the real estate market here. It's been very interesting. Many told me I couldn't accomplish what I was trying to accomplish. It's very satisfying to know that I was right and they were wrong. The speed at which I am growing shocked even me but I'm working really hard. The first 10 employees was quick but I think the next 10 will be much quicker. Already, we have offers from major financial institutions to purchase my company but I will never be an employee again.
I won't post regularly anymore like I was but those of you that truly know me know that I have always helped people and asked for nothing in return. Anyone that tries saying that realtors will TRULY represent your best interests is wrong.
I wrote a "blog" which has been described as the best resource on buying real estate in Argentina in the world. I hope it helps some of you buying here. Best of luck to all. Life is good.
http://www.apartmentsba.com/Consulting_&_Property_Management_Services_69/Real_Estate_Buying_Process_84/
Also, I read MCSE's post about prices. Some of it is correct and some of it is way off. New construction in Recoleta is MUCH higher than $1,300 per sq. meter for the low. I'd love to find new construction in Recoleta that cheap. Even $1,600 high price he has listed is lower than what I have seen in RECOLETA. Also, find out the motivations of buying. Are you buying to live there or are you buying as an investment. First ask yourself how often you are going to use the property. Buy in an area that isn't overpriced. Stay focused. Personally, I disagree with all the areas he mentioned to buy in. Belgrano is too far. Puerto Madero has no real soul and again I don't like the distance. Las Canitas is trendy but I wouldn't want to live there. The best areas to purchase Real estate I feel are Recoleta and Palermo. I'm purchasing as much as I can around the Recoleta Village area. I bought a unit in Jackson's building where he is renting his apartment. Very expensive property but I think it will be one of the best apartment rentals in the city once it's remodeled. My loft unit around the corner is already the most requested apartment rental in Buenos Aires. Booked on average 24 days a month and booked 3 months in advance.
Property prices continue to move up as I predicted a while ago. If you go back and read my old posts you will see I was dead on target on (1) real estate, (2) tourism and (3) the exchange rate.
Saint
"I CAN'T STOP KISSING MY OWN ASS"
Hey Starfe,
Your suggestion for the title of the book is accurate. It could also be: "My head can't fit through the door because its so big".
Or perhaps: "God pales in comparision".
It is amazing how in love with themselves some people are.
Suerte,
Stowe
Stowe,
Hey, I thought you were moving here? We are all still waiting for you to move to Buenos Aires and benefit us with your infinite wisdom and countless posts about living and working in Buenos Aires.
Yes, I am very proud of myself for what I have accomplished. So? Let's see you (or others) move to South America and accomplish something or build up a business. Argentina could very well be one of the most difficult countries in the world to do business in. The fact that I have become a market leader in a relatively short amount of time does make me proud. Actually I think this is only the beginning of amazing things to come.
Do I like myself? The person that I am? Abso-fricken-lutely. How does that harm any of you? As usual you are complaining about something. Doesn't surprise me. The information that I posted (no matter if you like the words or not) benefits people. Does your post complaining benefit anyone?
What I posted are facts. Nothing less and nothing more. I don't care if all of WSG loves me or hates me. I'll tell it like it is. I never said I was God. Maybe what bothers people like Stowe the most is that I was right all these years and continue to be right. No one said that everyone on WSG or the world had to post how THEY want them to. Again, those that know me know that I might be cocky but I'd give the shirt off my back to help others.
Good luck fellas.
Saint
I have read Saint's numerous postings for years. I have found his posts to be interesting, introspective, culturally expanding and right on target. In my opinion, he has always comported himself as a gentleman and a friend to all. I am happy and pleased to read about his hard earned successes, and wish the best to all who work hard and are honest in their dealings, as Saint has been.
Frankly, I really don't understand why members are taking pot shots at Saint. Every time I have PMed him regarding cities I wanted to travel to, I recieved polite, thoughtful and timely responses.
I applaud his success. And wish the best for all WSG members.
I'm headed over to Paraguary 877 today to try the Special.
Its Two girls for a one hour Massgae at $120 peso's rather than the standard one girls for $80 peso's.
Of course both prices include a "Happy Finish"
Exon
Daddy Rulz
07-11-05, 14:48
I agree his self promotion can be a bit much, however He has always been willing to share what He has learned and has been helpful to me in PM's. I'm being serious not sarcastic.
Kaos In NYC
07-12-05, 00:45
I have always enjoyed Saint's posts and I have learned a great deal from him. All you ingnorameouses should step off and liisten for a change. I want to live in Argentina one day and when I do I only hope to have the same success as Saint. Please ingore the nay sayers and continue to share your experiences.
Hey Guys,
I wasn't sure where I should post this but I just wanted to wish everyone visiting / living down here a very "Happy Friends Day".
Take care & happy mongering to all.
EC
A good article on the resurgent BA from todays Independent from the UK.
I was in Buenos Aires leaning out of a seventh-floor office window overlooking Plaza de Mayo, the local version of Trafalgar Square. Alongside me stood Ernesto Catena, scion of the Catena wine-making dynasty. We peered down at guano-besmirched public statuary. Catena, wearing brown corduroy, began pointing out landmarks. "To our right," he gestured to a dusty colonial pile, "the Casa de Gobierno, one of the earliest buildings in the city. To our left, the Pink Palace." It was hard to miss the giant rococo wedding cake, painted blush pink. "The colour comes from mixing whitewash with bull's blood," he said. "It is said to give strength and resilience. Argentina is one of the biggest grazing pastures. It is completely flat from here to Mendoza 600 miles away to the west."
According to Catena, cattle culture, and its derivatives of horsemanship, carnivorousness, leather ware and exterior decoration, dominates the history of Argentina, and drives the collective psyche. "Ask any Argentine man, 'How do you want to spend your last days?' and he'll reply, 'On a farm in the pampas.' The estanciero is the ultimate state of being for a Porteño ."
As we leant philosophically out of the window, it struck me how very familiar Buenos Aires looked. One could easily be in the middle of a magnificent throbbing European metropolis. In fact, the city is a harmonic convergence of the combined talents of the British, French, Spanish and Italians, minus the ancestral quarrels. Although Argentina is not technically European, no one told the Argentines. They have always yearned towards Europe. "We don't have this love for what we have," said Graciana, a local tour operator. "The Chileans are the opposite. They love being Chilean."
Although so very familiar, Argentina is a mystery. In 1940, the world's eighth largest country had the seventh richest economy. Today, the acreage is unchanged, but the economy has shrunk. From world power to care in the community, Argentina in some ways looks like an epic tale of underachievement, like watching a man squander an inherited fortune.
Recently things have begun to look up, however. Prices are still low, but the Porteños are on a high. Four years after the financial crisis of 2001, when the peso crashed overnight, the place is throbbing. Creativity in design, art and fashion is back on the agenda. A new generation of proudly self-confessed patriots is emerging. "Before the crisis in 2001, we copied Europe and the States," says Cecilia Nigro, a local public relations executive. "We didn't feel like a country with a culture. After the crisis, we couldn't afford to copy, so we focused on ourselves and our products. Now we export ideas and talent, too."
Each district of Buenos Aires radiates its own distinct character. Palermo is the recently rediscovered oldest part. Its three neighbourhoods are Palermo Viejo, where Jorge Luis Borges lived, which is all cobbled-stone tree-lined streets, turn-of-the-century facades, and great doorways leading to shady patios; Palermo SoHo, which is the fashion district; and Palermo Hollywood, where directors, photographers and television studios operate. These US-inspired nicknames are now a source of squirming embarrassment.
San Telmo, the one-time aristocratic quarter until yellow fever struck in 1865, is now the bohemian area, bustling with antique shops. Fans of vintage clothing should check out Gil Antiguedades. At the Sunday flea market, you can see the tango performed. The tango is also on a roll - ironically, since it expresses the sadness of poverty, homesickness and of the man never getting the woman. It is also fiendishly difficult to master. Today, contemporary artists, like Bajo Fondo Tango Club and Cristóbal Repetto are re-discovering the tango. Repetto evokes the style of Carlos Gardel, the legendary embodiment of the soul of tango who died in a plane crash at 45 in 1935.
Recoleta is the gold-plated district of the city, sporting a magnificent anthology of belle époque architecture as well as the Alvear Palace hotel. The Avenida Alvear, Buenos Aires's biggest catwalk, "is like 5th Avenue but without the stores", according to one fashionista.
La Boca is the rawest, poorest area near the port, and home of the tango and Boca Juniors Football Club, Diego Maradona's club in the early Eighties. The brightly painted houses are a tradition dating from the Italian immigration. With their customary flair for improvisation, the Italians hammered and riveted their dwellings from the tin that the empty cargo ships from Europe carried as ballast, and daubed their exterior walls in rainbow colours.
Puerto Madero is BA's docklands, a grid of salvaged wharfs and warehouses where you find a completely new aspect of Buenos Aires, centred on the figure of Alan Faena, 41, one of the city's most talked-about personalities. After selling his sweatshirts-to-jeans fashion label Via Vai, Faena bought Puerto Madero by the mile - five blocks to be precise - and is now selling it by the inch, having Cinderella-ised it with help from Philippe Starck and Norman Foster & Partners. Loftily re-christened "El Porteño Art District", it comes wrapped up in Messianic rhetoric about creativity, regeneration and new dawns, which sounds like Faena took a few pills and free-associated into a tape recorder for half an hour ("I had an idea some time ago: to offer my country a place that would shelter those who were eager to live an experience of transformation...").
The "Faena Hotel + Universe", the first element of El Porteño Art District, opened last October with its own cabaret theatre, art gal- lery and Starck interior. It occupies a 100-year-old converted grain warehouse originally built from bricks shipped from Manchester. John Galliano was booked in when I was * * there, looking for the elusive fashion zeitgeist.
Faena has granted me an audience in his all-white office. Shaven-headed and shod in bespoke anaconda-skin cowboy boots, he wears a white shirt and cords, symbolising fresh-start optimism. "Buenos Aires is the only truly cosmopolitan city in South America," he begins. "Not even Mexico or Sao Paolo can compare. I believe that now is the perfect time for the world to listen to our message... The inspiration for this development was to re-create what is happening to us, not only in the present, but also what was lost in the past."
Faena enticed Starck over to design the "Faena Hotel + Universe". "He came up with six designs, which I rejected," says Faena, gesturing regal dismissal. "I told him, 'I want you to help me with the rebirth of this city, to help me show the world this new Argentina.'" Faena waltzed Starck around BA's Haussman-esque boulevards, and shoved his nose up against the windows of local cantinas. An image of Starck springs to mind, baffled, bemused and intrigued by Faena's big-picture rain-maker gesticulations. "I like how Starck thinks," says Faena. "We have a good interaction."
As Faena sees it, Argentina is a nation of trauma junkies. The immigrant "survivor mentality" has, built into it, an in-built self-justification mechanism. Not only is it geared to withstand crises, but it also does an outstanding job of bringing them on. "For us, it is almost strange when nothing goes wrong," laughs Faena. "The crisis of 2001 was not our first crisis, merely the latest."
I asked him to elaborate on the Porteño mindset. "A Porteño? A survivor. When you are used to losing everything, that makes you a survivor. The lyrics of the tango express this loss. Being a survivor makes you enjoy life."
One thing you notice in Buenos Aires are the numbers of fashionable not-necessarily-Argentine restaurants that have sprung up, like Sucre in Bajo Belgrano, Cruz in Palermo Viejo (where Galliano threw a party for his entourage), Olsen, a Scandinavian restaurant, and Sudestada, a Vietnamese. You can even get sushi - which years ago Nobuyuki Matsuhisa tried unsuccessfully to introduce here.
At Rond Point, a chic new restaurant that typifies Buenos Aires's post-crisis renaissance, I met Dereck Foster, a Porteño of Gloucestershire descent, who is a bilingual walking encyclopaedia of Latino gastronomy and Argentine history, as well as the food and drink editor of the Buenos Aires Herald.
Eight years earlier, we'd discussed Argentina's decline relative to the rise of the United States, despite having similar racial mixes. "Yes, but whereas the Americans have a sense of being American, we're not sure who we are," he had replied. "We have no sense of community feeling. The Spanish have an expression: 'Everyone kicking towards their own goals.' The only symbol of national unity is the Argentine national football team, so long as it's winning. The easiest way to upset an Argentine is to remind him that Argentina has only won the World Cup three times."
Eight years later, we meet again. He feeds me news of the food scene. "The trend over the last two years has been towards ethnic cooking," says Foster, examining a dish of poached Pacific salmon and grilled toothfish (Antarctic hake) as though for flaws. "Buenos Aires is still not San Francisco, but the Asian and North Africa cuisine here is the tops. I ate Moroccan the other day; first time I had a couscous that I wanted more of. We have a Russo-Polish restaurant, Kosako, and a very good North Korean. I thought North Koreans lived off rice and hope, but the food is hot in all senses. We're seeing good Peruvian, too. Peru has the most authentic and original cuisine in South America. Lousy presentation, but the flavours are... wow! Peru has 500 varieties of potato."
There followed a discourse on Argentine wines. "Out of this world," he sketches a toast with a glass of Rutini late harvest 2002. "Argentina offers every type of soil, climate, temperature and altitude, and excellent grape varieties. Viognier, unknown here a few years ago, is now one of our best whites. Patagonia is producing Pinot Noirs which even Burgundy can't match. The wine world here is changing so fast I can't keep up."
You could never accuse the Argentines of being unpatriotic about their wines. Last year, they exported only 21 per cent of their output - and they're the world's fifth-largest producer. I bump into Phil Crozier, sommelier of the Gaucho Grill in Britain, whose Argentine wine list is one of the longest in the world. He recommended Catena, Terrazzas, Norton, Luigi Bosca, Flichman, Weinert, Etchart, La Amalia, and newcomers like Salentein, Dolium and O Fournier. "Argentine wines are all about earthiness and ripe fruit," he tells me. "Argentina has very high altitude vineyards. The combination of strong mountain sun and cool air has an inverted greenhouse effect - ideal for long, slow ripening, which gives mature-fruit flavours. Plums in Europe become prunes in Argentina. You also get cloves, candied peel, liquorice and cinnamon."
Actually, I think the Argentines are just pretending to eat and drink. Most of them are too busy slimming, determined to look good. This brings us to Argentine fashion, which, despite being six months out of step with the rest of the fashion world, is enjoying a purple patch.
Queen of logical-radical chic is Jessica Trosman, 38, an ex-English translator. Trosman's "intellectual", multi-coloured, layered look is discreetly fashionable and doesn't outrage the Argentine needs for classicism and uniformity. Despite showing in Paris and selling at Harvey Nichols, Trosman remains BA-based. Her boutique is in Patio Bullrich mall in Recoleta.
Later, at El Diamanté, a cheap, chic Latino bar/restaurant in Palermo, Trosman introduces me to Eugenia Rebolini, Argentina's top fashion stylist, who organised the first Buenos Aires Fashion Week in 2001 and deals in vintage clothing, selling to Donna Karan, Marc Jacobs and Zac Posen. Rebolini tells me where to assemble an inclusive cutting-edge capsule Argentine wardrobe. "Besides Jessica Trosman, go to Tramando by Martin Churba for experimental knitting and original textile pieces; to Fahoma by Julio Toledo for strong haute couture jewellery; and to Pablo Ramirez, who manages to synthesis our history and culture."
Laura Orcoyen is Argentina's most celebrated and exportable decorator and homewares designer. When we met, she was operating out of a barn-sized store in Uriarte in Palermo. I entered to find a prospect of creamy, wholesome, morally uplifting, natural fibre, oatmealy pieces of the sort that might grace a smart furniture shop in Knightsbridge. Orcoyen often teams up with her husband Pablo Sánchez Eliá, the architect, to purvey a luxuriously understated aesthetic to creating chic shops, restaurants and homes in Argentina and Uruguay. Among Pablo's most famous pieces is the ziggurat-shaped Catena winery in Mendoza, an icon of Argentina's wine industry.
"People cannot believe this is all Argentine," she says, waving at a vista of tables, white-on-white beds, chairs and icebuckets. According to Orcoyen, there has been a great explosion since the crisis. "Until three or four years ago, 'Made in Argentina' meant 'take care'. Now, there is a new pride. It was like waking up one morning and finding everything was different. Before we didn't know how to trust our own garden. We were always looking over the fence."
Of course, it might not last. You cannot change an ingrained mindset overnight. Four years ago, people were rioting. Now, in Buenos Aires, dog-walking is a growth industry. It's a bubble that's so big you hardly notice it when you're inside it. Hopefully it'll stay that way.
Hi,
I checked the search function, couldn't find anything about this place but I know it was mentioned here in the past. Has anyone been here recently? They had tight looking massueses per the reports, not fs but still the full spa experience with a nice release from a beautiful lady. I think this may be a nice way to unwind from the long flight.
Any suggestions or other locations that may offer something similar?
Thanks
Mojokpr,
Try this website:
http://www.colmegna.com.ar/
Bandy
Not quite a spa the level of Colmegna (which has gotten expensive, and at which a Happy Ending must be negotiated for with the masseuse for a separate tip :( ) but I would recommend Esmerelda 847, Apt. 12H. One block off of the interection of Cordoba, in Microcentro. Open 11-23 every day.
Mojokpr,
IMO, Colmegna Spa is the ideal place to unwind after a long plane ride, I was there about a year ago and I've been told they've recently made some decent renovations. In any case, again, if you're looking to unwind, talk politics with some local businessmen, play chess, and sip on an expresso by all means check this place out.
Better yet, get a legit massage from a trained masseuse on the second floor, than proceed to the steam area for a rejuvanating nap. You'll be 100% and ready to rock in no time.
I was not impressed with the VIP treatment or VIP talent at Colmegna, note this place is a health spa first and foremost, on all occasions the VIP salon was almost always vacant.
Oh that's a good one. I wish the Bellagio offered the same extras.
Hi,
I visited their website: http://www.colmegna.com.ar (thanks Bandy), could not find their price list.
Strad.
Mojokpr,
IMO, Colmegna Spa is the ideal place to unwind after a long plane ride, I was there about a year ago and I've been told they've recently made some decent renovations. In any case, again, if you're looking to unwind, talk politics with some local businessmen, play chess, and sip on an expresso by all means check this place out.
Better yet, get a legit massage from a trained masseuse on the second floor, than proceed to the steam area for a rejuvanating nap. You'll be 100% and ready to rock in no time.
I was not impressed with the VIP treatment or VIP talent at Colmegna, note this place is a health spa first and foremost, on all occasions the VIP salon was almost always vacant.
There should be a word doc on their website (english) that outlines pricing. If not call them, they speak english.
Entrance fee (standard or VIP) Masaje (again std. Or VIP)
196 pesos. Extra's will cost you extra
(then again I always pay the gringo price + the 25% sucker tax on top of the tax)
They sent me the price list. Right now they have promotion, 90 peso special, can someone please go there and give a review.
Thanks!
Strad
Yeap, here is the price list they sent me:
Día Spa H*OMBRE promo.
Incluye los siguientes servicios:
·Gym why / o utilización de máquinas aeróbicas.-
·Baños de Calor: Baño Turco, Sauna why Baño de Vapor.-
·Pileta con Hidromasaje.
·Relax.-
·Masaje (30 min)
·Pedicuría.
·Almuerzo ó Merienda (según la hora de llegada)-
Precio: $95.-
Can someone kindly translate this, thanks!
they sent me the price list. Right now they have promotion, 90 peso special, can someone please go there and give a review.
Thanks!
Strad
Daddy Rulz
12-21-05, 02:47
Yeap, here is the price list they sent me:
Día Spa H*OMBRE promo.
Incluye los siguientes servicios:
·Gym why / o utilización de máquinas aeróbicas.-
Use of the gym.
·Baños de Calor: Baño Turco, Sauna why Baño de Vapor.-
Turkish bath, Sauna, or steam bath.
·Pileta con Hidromasaje.
I don't know Pileta but Hidromasaje is a jaccuzzi.
·Relax.-
·Masaje (30 min)
30 min massage (probably without happy ending but who knows)
·Pedicuría.
Pedicure, more than likely involving foot massage.
·Almuerzo ó Merienda (según la hora de llegada)-
Almuerzo is lunch, I don't know Merienda but I'm sure its a refreshment.
Precio: $95.-
Can someone kindly translate this, thanks!I don't know if it will work putting the translation in the quote or not
Pileta means pool.
Merienda is the Spanish equivalent for the 5 o'clock tea. It's a meal between lunch and dinner.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Thanks for that translation. It sounds realy good, I defenitely would like to check it out when I am there. 95P is a great bargain! Can someone go there for a preview? And findout for DR if HJ is included within that 30 massage?
One Tree Hill
12-21-05, 14:00
Daddy Rulz - thats on hell of a deal! I will take advantage of that soon!
Relax - usually means "relief". I am sure thats what it means here.
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