View Full Version : Argentina Residency
Daddy Rulz
02-19-05, 16:07
I'm working on a plan to move to BsAs (learning a new job blah blah blah) I've contacted the Argentine Embasy here and they told me they only have a retiree visa which you must show proof of a pension to get. Otherwise you have to get the equivilant of our green card to avoid the quarterly visit to Colonia. Has anybody gotten a residence visa? How hard are they to get? Saint I know you were working on getting a DNI, any success? I have no intention of trying to make a living on the Argentine economy (I have proved I can be poor here already) so I don't need the right to work.
Thomaso276
02-19-05, 23:54
here is page for Arg. Immigration. Check out: Requisitos para radicación (towards bottom of page). Residence is more involved than just proof of pension. You also need criminal history (FBI check), health chekup, Argentine Criminal History, birth cert..As well, every paper you present from USA needs and Apostille stamp on it (Just do a yahoo search to find out what it is and what purpose it serves) and then officially translated here in BA. Good luck. Tom
Bruno Travel
03-11-05, 19:19
Everyone who wants to get a residency according to the decreto (see:http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/migraciones/) and who did not apply yet for it has got only next week to do so because this way expires with Sunday 20 March 2005 - if I understood the red text in this website correctly.
I am in a hurry now, will probably post more about the subject in the next days. Anybody interested in knowing more rapidly can write me an email so that we can get together by phone.
IT IS NOT POSSIBLE to get the DNI picked up by ANOTHER (notary-) impowered person because on picking it up the owner has to put his right thump-print on a part of his photo! This I found out today with the help of a lawyer whom I wanted to pick it up for me in May.
Bruno Travel
03-15-05, 13:42
Contrary to previous informations (Jackpot!) it seems that Migraciones do not hand out the DNI but only the (temporary) residency. With that one should go to some other place (police?) to get the DNI. The problem to me and to some of us is that one has to apply for the DNI within 1 month after receiving the temporary residency. According to my current plans I won't be back in time but I am posting this for anybody who may like to put that into consideration. I am probably going to empower a lawyer/notary to take care of all the proceedings and, if necessary, to negotiate a solution for my special case on place.
Bruno Travel
03-16-05, 15:19
Sorry, there has ben a misunderstanding. To get the DNI one has ONE YEAR starting from the date of issue of the residency permit to get the DNI at another office in Buenos Aires in Calle Chacabuco. (It takes a month to get it there, this was the source of error.) Thanks to Jackpot for the correction.
I looked into applying for a residency visa thru AFN Visas:
http://www.afnvisas.com.ar
For the most part, they were on top of their shit, spoke good English, and had only a touch of the typical Argentine business bullshit.
They want U$S700 to take care of everything, which is obviously very steep but probably makes sense for corporates and people who can't be bothered to do this themselves.
I consultation determined that I could qualify for the "retiree" version of the residency visa, but I decided not to go ahead with it. It simply isn't worth the money and hassle (a flight back to an Argentine embassy in the U.S. is necessary, as are police reports, translated original documents, etc.). The quarterly ferry to Colonia is simply easier.
As with most things in Argentina, doing anything "the right way" is simply too much hassle.
Spassmusssein
05-31-05, 01:17
1. Find good lawayer/notary/gestor (who does the "running work", holding the line)
2. Found s.r.l. (cheaper than s.a., you can change easily to s.a.lateron), you need an Argentinean or resident as "Manager"
2a. Inspecion General de Justicia (checking companies...) is "achanging" from last years idea that a company must be at least 5%:95% to one-person companies.
3. Your "manager" writes to "immigrations" that your work is very necessary for this corp (certified ba notary) to get immigration permitted. Aside you need clean criminal history (just from YOUR homeland, nor ARG)
3a. Medical certificate (hospital of your decision) presentet to "immigrations" (with lung's x-ray)
4. Your "gestor" brings all the paperwork to immigrations and when accepted you get from "your" company a work-contract in a sealed envelope, have to organize a date with Arg-embassy in your homecountry to sign the work-contract in front of the embassador. After that in the act you receive your visa. Having with visa 2 envelopes getting back to Arg.: DO NOT give away one of the envelope (getting it back: 115Ps/2 weeks) at the airport. Showing visa you get your first "immigration" stamp.
5. With visa/stamp your "gestor will organize your first DNI within 4 weeks.
As I am from Austria, maybe my english is bad, info is better...;)
My amigovia just suggested we get married in exchange for a visa for me and a good apartment for her and her hijo. No obligation to live together.
Anyone have experience along these lines, the pitfalls and the pluses?
Hi Bacchus,
I'd do some legal research first. Getting married (or divorced) under Argentina Law is not the same as in the USA. For example, Argentina is still a "fault" divorce country, and if your spouse can prove that you were cheating on her, she can sue for a divorce and win a sizeable portion of your property, as in more than 50%.
I understand that pre-marriage contracts are recognized and usually upheld.
Let us know what you find out.
Thanks,
Jackson
On the off chance that you are actually serious and not trolling for a flame war, I would say that instead of asking a bunch of primarily foreign mongers, you should not walk, not jog, but flat-ass run to an Argentinean attorney who specializes in family law. One thing that jumps to mind immediately is her getting pregnant by another guy and you being legally the father. Overall I would say this is the worst idea I have heard in quite a long time and I think the cost of a divorce would cover an awful lot of boat rides to Uruguay.
Bacchus:
As Dickhead said, this is one of the worst ideas I ever heard. Maybe that arrangement would work wonders for her, but... would it for you?
Will you work or study? Will you buy property? If "no" for both questions, forget it. A very close friend of mine has been living in BA since 1991 as a tourist (14 years). He has an HMO and his ATM card from the US works well.
Saint managed his circumstances to get his visa and the related documentation (DNI, etc). You can do so, also, but keep in mind that he works in Argentina.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Spassmusssein
06-16-05, 00:53
Info of Andres is incorrect.
With your individual taxnumber (cdi/cuil/cuit/) you CAN buy property, no importance being tourist or whatever.
Getting cdi you have to demonstrate your legal adress this can be a little complicated.
Spassmusssein:
1) CUIL/CUIT (Código Único de Identificación Laboral / Código Único de Identificación Tributaria) are those corresponding to tax ID numbers (such as SSN). They are not used as a proof of identity, as are the CDI (Cédula de Identidad) or the DNI.
2) DNI is the official document for most of the errands and procedures. You cannot open a bank account nor perform most of the bank operations without it.
You "may" buy property without a DNI, but... weren't we talking about visas?
Andres
Andres:
You definitely can buy property without a DNI (I did it). If anybody wants to do that, get yourself a lawyer who specializes in doing these things with foreigners, you will need him anyway. What you need is the CUIT, and you can get that as a foreigner.
El Alemán
Spassmusssein
06-17-05, 12:38
CDI (Clave de identification) is your personal tax number as a stranger OR as a resident.
It will change after getting DNI to a new CUIT/CUIL.
Form of CDI is F. 663, you need to demonstrate a lease/rental-contract and a confirmation of the next police station (10Pesos).
Usualy the agency in Hip. Yrigoien will give you the CDI in the act.
DEMAND NOT to pay any mensual amount AS YOU ARE STRANGER.
With this CDI you can buy any property you like. Take care of the actual tendency to freeze in 30% of cash-transfers from non-residents!
Well, it seems I will never know or need to know the answer to my question on marriage for visa. I was surprised that no one had much to say about it other than the "avoid like a plague" warnings, as it's not that uncommon in, say, New York. In the end it did seem like you'd just open yourself up to complications although a paternity suit would negate someone else's child and a pre-nup would probably limit your exposure legally.
But it turned out there was a more natural path since I intend to live here and do business anyway under the name of my own US company.
I just received word from AFP visa that my application under the "business impresario" category is being accepted by Immigraciones. This came about after dumping birth certificate apostilled, sole proprietorship business bank account, business license and tax return on them and waiting about 4 weeks for "word". It does show that even though the language of the category is geared to big companies or corporations it doesn't rule out little guys. Mushroom farmers from Idaho or igloo builders from Arizona, etc. You too can be a "business impresario" in Argentina.
Of course there's more paperwork that I have to provide, notarized and apostilled and when the local Immigraciones issues the permit here I must then fly back to the US state of residence and formally present the documents to the Argentine consulate who will be the ones actually issuing the visa. Then return to Argentina and what ho, "Bob's your uncle". One year temporary resident visa, renewable annually until they decide to make it permanent.
Spassmusssein
07-11-05, 01:23
With your visa you get DNI, must do twice the "prorroga" and THEN you have permanency. Shure you will not have be Argentine citizenship, just the residency. Concerning "response" to your question, shure, you CAN marry, immigration, to avoid faked marriage will ask you funny things ("what colour had the panty of your spouse in the first night") will ask your amigovia the same b-shit, to ashure the "real love". If your amigovia understands the things here, she will be devorced soon and you will loose half of your "caudal".
Thomaso276
09-28-05, 12:51
Today, 9-28-05, I went to N. Alem #100 for my turn to apply for DNI. A long line around the corner at 8am seemed ominus, but it moved quickly when they opened. The entrance is actually on the opposite street from Alem (25 de Mayo - number 179 I think) Guard at door looks at the slip for your turn and sent us to left side line. We got a number to go downstairs based on my little slip of paper presented to clerk on left side line. Overall pretty fast to get into building.
Downstairs there are three sections. The first, just as you walk in, reviews your papers - you need the original 2 year residence letters, original confirmation of your address (get it from local precinct) and original birth certificate with apostille stamps and translation. No one asked for my passport (but bring it anyway) This group moves fast as well because it is just a quick review and then you get another slip of paper with a handwritten number for your next turn.
Go to middle section and when your name is called present papers to clerk who enters info into the computer. Most of the info is about birth certificate, fathers name, mom's name, where born, etc. You receive a printed form with some of your info and go to cashier to the right. 15 pesos for the application. This section moved fast as well.
Go to small booth for passsport type photos (5 pesos for two photos) and then sit at last section. You wait for your name to be called. Present original papers again, one photo, sign some forms and have your fingerprints taken. At this desk they keep your original birth certificate and apostille stamp letter, translation, as well as confimation of domicillio. This was the slowest group but they had to take prints and fill out fill out some forms. When I got home and checked my papers I thought I had left these originals at the Ministry. My girlfriend called and was told that by law they have to keep originals for all foreigners but I can get a certified copy from them if needed.
They give you two slips of paper with instructions on them and the DNI card will be ready in about 60 days. Pick up times are between 2p and 5p, same location. You have to bring the slips, your passport and the OTHER photo that was taken.
Overall about two hours, not bad considering how quickly people moved through the sections compared to some other experiences I have had here.
I learned that the DNI may have to be renewed every year for 2-3 years and then becomes permanent. I will get clarification when I pick up the card in December. While I was waiting in line on the street to enter another American was there to renew his DNI. He said he works in BA and basically just has to show up and have the date changed. I did not get into details about what papers he needed, because this was the first line and I was thinking about the process of receiving, not renewing, but my impression was he only had the DNI and his passport.
Any info out there as regards the simplest way to get a CUIT? Do I need a lawyer? Do I want one or are there some benefits to flying under the taxman radar? My income is from the states and being deposited directly to an account in the states.
Thanks!
Unless there is a shortcut I don't know of, youll need a DNI to get a CUIT. With the DNI you get a CUIT in less than 2 hours at Anses. CUIT number is 20-DNI-5. DNI is xx.xxx.xxx, begins with 93 for foreigners/residents and much lower numbers for citizens.
You dont really need a lawyer, but an immigration consultant agency for this. Just look in the yellow pages. Taxes - I dont know how the Argentine tax authorities would find out about US source income paid abroad.
Thanks for the feedback. I'll probably look at working with ARCA, a local organization of attorneys who handle immigration issues, DNIs, the whole ball of wax. Costs a bit, but as I understand it, you turn it over to them and they do most everything.
Thomaso276
02-01-06, 00:02
If you are going to get a DNI you will have to do alot of legwork in the States - Criminal history, personal info (divorce, pension, etc. Which has to be verified by Notary, Apostile stamp. It is almost impossible to do from overseas (fingerprints come to mind, but maybe the embassy can take them and forward to FBI for clearance)
As well as criminal history here in BA. The organization will probably only direct you on what they need. They may provode a roadmap and translations service as par tof their cost. I have heard these companies are not worth the cost but check it out and let us know.
You will still be standing in lines during some of the process.
By the way got my DIN a couple of weeks ago. After processing they had said it would be 60 days. Turned out to be about 100. Chinese overload on all immigration, Minister of Interior buildings and staff.
Thomaso,
What category did you get your entry visa on? There are several such as student, pensioner, investor, employee, etc. 2nd question, what papers/other did you have to provide to prove that category?
I know about the rest of the requirements such as criminal history,birth certificate, etc. because I think they are the same for every visa category.
I ask because I may have a friend moving down here and would like to know the easiest category for him to get his DNI.
Thx,
Moore
Thomaso276
02-02-06, 11:20
Originally started with the pension category three years ago. Then when the two year residency program popped up I switched over to the streamlined process. I think that program, created as usual by decree, has expired. It was created for the many Chinese who wanted work papers here.
My biggest challenge with the normal pension program were my papers. I would have had to track down the pension board president in the States and ask him to sign and notarize the final order, then send that off for Apostile Stamp. Don't remember if my monthly statements needed Apostile but I believe they did. I had no idea where to get the Apostile for them.
Here is the gov't. Webpage for various requirements:
http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/migraciones/
Thanks for the reply. From what I hear there have been some changes to the immigration rules. Going by experience, be very careful with changing your temporary residence status/category until you get the permanent one. It used to be (not so long ago) that if you changed a temporary status/category, you lost the visa and had to apply for a new temporary visa all over again (and restart the 3year permanent waiting period). As long as you have the same kind of documents to present, the annual renewals are quite simple. But even the slightest change - lets say the payor name on your pension statement changes next year - can cause big probs. Or lets say you have to show the last 6 months pension payments for each renewal but are missing one. They want to see exact continuity.
Amantelondres
02-14-06, 14:11
I still have the old style cedula (the type without a photo) based on residencia though I spend most of my time in Europe, and which I use without any problems. I don't think it has an expiry date as it was issued in 1983 and I still use it.
Question 1. Am I right that there is no expiry date for this type of cedula?
Question 2. Can I travel within Mercosur countries with it (especially as it doesn't have a photo on it)
Question 3. I am applying for a DNI para extranjeros (DNI for foreigners) as I believe this will be necessary if I need to sell my apartment. When therefore is a DNI more advantageous than a cedula?
Any help from locals would be appreciated. Meanwhile, Alanis (see Platynum) is to be highly recommended!
I still have the old style cedula (the type without a photo) based on residencia though I spend most of my time in Europe, and which I use without any problems. I don't think it has an expiry date as it was issued in 1983 and I still use it.
Question 1. Am I right that there is no expiry date for this type of cedula?
Question 2. Can I travel within Mercosur countries with it (especially as it doesn't have a photo on it)
Question 3. I am applying for a DNI para extranjeros (DNI for foreigners) as I believe this will be necessary if I need to sell my apartment. When therefore is a DNI more advantageous than a cedula?
Any help from locals would be appreciated. Meanwhile, Alanis (see Platynum) is to be highly recommended!1) New cedulas have an exp date of 5 years.
2) Your cedula has no picture? Mine from the 1970s did. I'm really surprised. I guess that yours will raise suspictions.
3) Some bank transactions and other errands can only be done with DNI.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Amantelondres
02-15-06, 06:29
Apologies. Of course it has a photo. I meant to say it doesn't have an expiry date. Sorry about that. I just had what is called a "senior moment"! Thanks for your reply. Did your old style cedula have an expiry date?
Apologies. Of course it has a photo. I meant to say it doesn't have an expiry date. Sorry about that. I just had what is called a "senior moment"! Thanks for your reply. Did your old style cedula have an expiry date?No, not the old one. However, the old one has a different number from the new ones, which are based on the DNI number instead of the PFA number. That may raise concerns from authorities at the border.
Andres
Amantelondres
02-15-06, 14:48
Gracias Andres.
A friend dropped by this morning on his way to get his paperwork in order at immigraciones with a tale of just returning from a weekend in Uruguay and being hassled at Jorge Newberry airport immigrations. The agent told him that perpetual renewal of the 90 tourist visa was in for a change, went through his various visa renewals counting up the days of actual use, I. E. Days stayed on each tourist visa and after seeing that each one was near the maximum made a point of telling him he was near the limit of each one. He said it took him 15 minutes to get past the immigration point.
I returned recently, beginning of February, through Ezeiza using a passport so full of Argentina immigration stamps they have search for space to stamp a new one, and no issues at entering.
Anyone have anything to share on this topic?
Punter 127
02-27-06, 13:48
A friend dropped by this morning on his way to get his paperwork in order at immigraciones with a tale of just returning from a weekend in Uruguay and being hassled at Jorge Newberry airport immigrations. The agent told him that perpetual renewal of the 90 tourist visa was in for a change, went through his various visa renewals counting up the days of actual use, I. E. Days stayed on each tourist visa and after seeing that each one was near the maximum made a point of telling him he was near the limit of each one. He said it took him 15 minutes to get past the immigration point.
I returned recently, beginning of February, through Ezeiza using a passport so full of Argentina immigration stamps they have search for space to stamp a new one, and no issues at entering.
Anyone have anything to share on this topic?I just returned to BsAs, it's my 8th time to enter the country in 16 months, I had no problems at EZE, but I have only stayed 2 weeks at a time.
A friend dropped by this morning on his way to get his paperwork in order at immigraciones with a tale of just returning from a weekend in Uruguay and being hassled at Jorge Newberry airport immigrations. The agent told him that perpetual renewal of the 90 tourist visa was in for a change, went through his various visa renewals counting up the days of actual use, I. E. Days stayed on each tourist visa and after seeing that each one was near the maximum made a point of telling him he was near the limit of each one. He said it took him 15 minutes to get past the immigration point.
I returned recently, beginning of February, through Ezeiza using a passport so full of Argentina immigration stamps they have search for space to stamp a new one, and no issues at entering.
Anyone have anything to share on this topic?Thanks for sharing your buddy's story. I can't shed any light, but will be very interested if there are any similar stories out there. I am sure I am one of many who plan to do the Uruguay "thing" for the indefinite future. Maybe this is only a Jorge Newberry phenomenon, or he "lucked" into an asshole with an axe to grind. Let's hope.
Jaimito Cartero
02-27-06, 15:09
Anyone have anything to share on this topic?Well, I'd say it might be time to renew the passport!
After I arrived in BA on this long stay trip, I stayed a bit over 2 months before taking a short 6 day trip back to the states, then returned a bit over a week ago into EZE. I plan to do this every two months or so for however long my overall stay lasts.
No problems or issues coming back in, 30 sec cursory glance, check, and stamp when I went through immigration. My passport has a lot of stamps, every page isn't used yet but I have a ton of mainly Europe stamps as I traveled a lot on short trips for business. So unless they're recording the prior entry digitally somewhere, it's possible the guy didn't even see I had a previous tourist entry.
If your plan on doing the Uruguay thing indefinitely and have reason to believe that the AR govt is going to change tourist visa rules, why not get a 2nd US passport? You could alternate passports and therefore only need two 90day stamps per year in each one. So accordging to each single passport, you're not spending more than 180days per year in the country.
If your plan on doing the Uruguay thing indefinitely and have reason to believe that the AR govt is going to change tourist visa rules, why not get a 2nd US passport? You could alternate passports and therefore only need two 90day stamps per year in each one. So accordging to each single passport, you're not spending more than 180days per year in the country.A second passport? The only way you can get a second passport issued is to tell the State Department that the old one was lost. Your new passport will have a new number, and the old one will go on an electronic blacklist. Imagine the problems for a traveler being detained at immigration because of passport problems.
I think the best course is to go through the hassle of getting Argentine permanent residence. Doing it this way has the added benefit of not being illegal.;)
How do you obtain it? Buy an apartment or a house? Deposite certain amount of money like in Thailand?
Strad
A second passport? The only way you can get a second passport issued is to tell the State Department that the old one was lost. Your new passport will have a new number, and the old one will go on an electronic blacklist. Imagine the problems for a traveler being detained at immigration because of passport problems.
I think the best course is to go through the hassle of getting Argentine permanent residence. Doing it this way has the added benefit of not being illegal.;)I was not implying anything illegal.
"Second passports are valid for a period of 2 years and can be extended upon expiration if necessary. Second passports are issued at the State Department's discretion, usually due to one of the following circumstances:
- For US citizen who travels internationally so frequently that, due to time constraints, have difficulty acquiring traveling visas between trips.
- For safety/security reasons. For example, if you travel between Israel and anti Israeli States."
Having 2 passports (same nationality) is apparently allowed in many countries. I have a friend who has 2 German passports. I believe he got his second by telling the authorities that he travelled a lot on business and needed one for business and another for personal use.
I agree that getting the permanent residence is the way to go for someone who plans on residing here full time. But getting it is generally a Huge, Multi-year Pain in the Ass. A big enough Pain in the Ass for many people to say - Fuck That.
Strad,
It's all on the immigration service's web seite: http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/
Basically, there are 2 possibilities, as an investor if you start and run a business in Argentina, and for retired persons if you have a source of income from outside Argentina of more than $ 2500.
Hope that helps,
Al Alemán
Thanks for the tip, Moore. This board has taught me something that I didn't know until today. Ah, the benefits of education. Now perhaps I shall review Exon123's posts about TVs for some more enlightenment.:)
Disclaimer: this is long and probably not interesting to anybody unless they are seriously considering applying for a "rentista visa" or already started the process.
I just wanted to share my experience in applying and receiving the "Rentista Visa" and hopefully clarify this process to others. While this visa is apparently designed for a Retiree I applied being well under the age of 30. I obviously have no pension or retirement account in the stages of payment. However, I do have some Rental Properties that I rent out in the U. S. Which I managed to use as my income.
I originally contacted ARCA and asked them two questions via email. The first one was how long the process took once I gave them all of the necessary documents. I also asked them if my real estate income would count for the minimum of $2500 pesos /$900 US required each month. They told me it would take 6 weeks once they received all of the documents before I would get my visa and that no, unfortunately my real estate situation would not qualify me. They further went on to tell me that during this six weeks I would be without my passport in the states while my passport was sent from the consulate down to Argentina and then returned back to the consulate I dropped it off in the U. S. The price they wanted to charge me $3000 US to hold my hand through the process. I decided to take this one on alone with my limited Spanish. I later discovered that the information I received from them was completely inaccurate.
I contacted the Consulate in Los Angles and she faxed over the exact requirements in English.
Here is what they asked for:
•A letter from a CPA and Financial Institution stating that I will be receiving $2500 Pesos a month for the next 2 years.
•Original or Certified Copy of my Birth Certificate.
•A letter stating no police record from a local police office or the FBI.
•Signed affidavit of no International Criminal recorded which they give you.
•Application.
•4 headshots with at a specific angle.
Note: No medical record was required, which I actually got anyway but they gave it back and said it was not necessary.
All of these documents need to be translated into Spanish and notarized by a certified translator. After all of this both copies (English and Spanish) need to get an apostle. While all of this sounds really difficult in reality it isn't, and it shouldn't take more then a week to get. The Letter from the bank was the most difficult but luckily I have a good relationship with my bank and they understood the stupidity of this so agreed to write something that apparently was close enough to work.
After I got all of these documents I made an appointment to meet with the consular in LA. My meeting was at 10am and believe it or not I was out of there by 1pm the same day with the visa. I had to pay $300US, take fingerprints, fill out some forms, etc. Obviously it helped that I had all of my documents in order and she actually commented that this was very surprising. I also offered to buy her lunch and explained that I don't have a lot of time so she did me a favor of completing the visa the same day. She said that usually it takes a day or two, but they don't need to send my passport to Argentina or anything like that.
Also, they give me two envelopes to take to Argentina. I was instructed to give one of them to immigration at EZE. And take the other one to and immigration office downtown (calle 25 de Mayo 179?) These are the documents necessary to get a DNI. This building is about 2 blocks from Plaza Del Mayo. I experienced loads of people outside trying to get in but I went straight to the guard with my US passport and he let me enter. From there you go and actually pick up the previous envelope that you already gave to them at EZE. Mine wasn't there yet so he told me to go to a different line to get an appointment for my DNI anyway and then stop back by in a couple of days to see if my first envelope has made its way from EZE. I got my appointment to come back in about 2 weeks to actually submit all of these papers for a DNI.
They told me that when I come back for my DNI I am going to need to bring both envelopes as well as a copy of my passport and a "certifcado de domicilio." Which is very easy to get from your local police station.
So now I am just waiting for my appointment next week to get my DNI. I understand that after I submit all of this info it takes about 2-3 months to actually get the DNI.
I will post a follow up once I get my DNI but I just wanted to get this up there for now so I don't forget the process. I am sure I forgot some critical info or was unclear at some point so please let me know what is missing and I will be happy to update this. I would also say that from my experience ARCA has a lot of misinformation and I would certainly be cautious before paying them $3000 US.
enguin,
Fantastic information - thank you! Any insight on how the process would differ (being better or worse) if trying to accomplish if already in Argentina?
Alan
Thomaso276
08-10-06, 15:38
The problem in trying to get it from Arg. is the Criminal History from USA. Birth certificate, etc. You have to present yourself for prints at a local PD. Birth Certificates should not be mailed to Arg. as well, the Appostille Stamps for various civil documents requires mailing in USA. For example, my criminal history had a Apostille from the Sec'y of State for Florida, while my BC had one from NY Sec'y of State.
You can probably accomplish these tasks with the help of a friend in the USA who can mail letters and receive papers on your behalf. The Criminal History is tougher.
There are many posts about this subject.
By the way don't be surprised if the DNI takes longer than 90 days. They were really backed up last year. And I believe Penguin will need a "Antecedentes" - criminal history check - from Policia Federal. I can't remember the address but I posted it in another report - it is around Tucuman or Viamonte the tribunales buildings.
Finally: all foreigner DNI issues are handled at the Ministry of Interior, calle 25 de Mayo around the 100 block. Although there are many other buildings for DNI's they do not handle foreigners. Your DNI booklet will specifically say it is for foreigners.
My advice is to contact the local migraciones office in the province where you are and ask them what you'll need exactly.
The requirements can differ from what is listed on the ministerio del interior website and depends on who is working at the office (welcome to Argentina!)
For instance, I got all my US documents apostillized (copy of passport, copy of birth certificate, FBI record and fingerprints) but the Apostilles were not needed when I processed my paperwork in Argentina - I did not go through the Argentine consulate in the US. They told me all they needed was a plain old non-certified copy of my Passport (every page) Birth Certificate, and she just looked at my FBI fingerprint card but didn't require a copy of it. - Of course all these English documents had to be translated to Spanish by a certified translator who is a member of the national school of public translators as specified on the Migraciones website.
The migraciones office I went to required me to get "fiches y antecedentes" (Fingerprints and a background check) from both the Local Provincial Police and the Federal Police. The website only says you need it from the Federal Police. - Ask about this specifically.
Give yourself some time in case they drop some extra 'tramites' into your lap. I took vacation to file for my residency there and thought I came prepared until they told me I needed a few extra things not listed on the Migraciones website - everything worked out fine but it was a real close call.
Suerte,
Tinman
Forgive my ignorance if this seems too simple, but I have some questions about the residence visa that perhaps some of you could answer:
A. Mechanically, how does it work?
1. You retain US citzenship, passport, and residency, I believe?
2. Do you receive a special visa stamp in your US passport, or a separate document? Is there an effect on loss of passport, especially while waiting for the DNI?
3. To cross into another Mercosur country, do you need your passport, or only your DNI, or both? Do you receive stamps in your passport?
4. Do you receive stamps in your passport on exit / entry to travel to the (a) US or (be) Other non Mercosur countries as usual?
5. Does your residency and DNI have an effect on the Paraguay visa requirement for Americans, or the Bolivia 30 day visa period, or the maximum of 180 days / year in Brasil, since you are a Mercosur resident?
6. In studying residence visas a few years ago, I saw something nasty about travel restrictions to a third country during some qualification period that seemed prohibitive for me. Was this Argentina? Does it ring a bell?
B. For US citizens, normally there is a state residency requirement in order to drive, vote, have auto and health insurance. Many applications don't work without a phone number. States are also hungry to tax pensions and interest, for example. The last time I looked you were legally a resident of the state where you last resided until you ACTIVELY made efforts to change it: residence, drivers license, voting, bank accounts, insurance. The idea is you can't just change your address to your sister's house and have it be legal. How are US / US state residency requirements affected by the foreign residency in general? State taxes? Inheritance and wills?
C. Has anyone renewed their passport thru the US Embassy instead of returning to the US to renew it?
Thanks
Lexton,
I can answer some of your questions as I currently have a "work visa" in Argentina. It was originally issued for 1 year and I have now renewed it twice. Next year I am eligible to apply for a "permanent residency" visa. I'll go in order:
1. Yes, you retain US residency, passport, etc.
2. Yes, you receive a visa stamp in your passport. Can't answer your question on the DNI because I don't have one. I will get one once I am permanent. Usually I am only missing my passport for a few hours while my guy goes to immigration to do all the work for me.
3. Yes, you need your passport. Yes, you get stamps.
4. More stamps again.
5. Not a clue.
6. The only travel restrictions I received when I first applied for the work visa was to not travel to Asia because of bird flu.
6B. Too vague. Check with an attorney on specifics.
6C. I haven't, but heard it isn't a big deal.
Suerte,
Trader. (Shit, I almost signed my real name)
"To cross into another Mercosur country, do you need your passport, or only your DNI, or both? Do you receive stamps in your passport?"
3. Yes, you need your passport. Yes, you get stamps.Not necessarily true. You can travel to other Mercosur countries without a passport, you only need your DNI and they don't stamp it. However, if you are travelling to a country that requires a visa for your nationality, such as an American travelling to Brasil, then you need your US passport regardless of your residence status in Argentina. The foreigner's DNI lists your nationality, of course.
It's nice being able to travel on the DNI alone if you travel often within Mercosur. Otherwise, the entry/exit stamps will fill up your passport very quickly.
Thanks for the info.
To clarify my question regarding the visa stamp, if you lose your passport, can you get the new one stamped easily, especially if you don't have a DNI yet?
On the state residency issue, I know it isn't simple. I am thinking a little of changing my residency to Nevada, but without ongoing active help of some resident there, it isn't easy. Does your foreign residence in a non-USA possession have any effect whatsoever on the residency requirements of the USA that might help or change the whole situation?
I am a little surprised at the stamps to return to the US, but on thinking about it, this is probably a US requirement more than an Argentinian one.
It sounds like one help of the DNI would be the ablility to travel frequently to Bolivia and Uruguay. Paraguay and Brasil would not change, based on what Moore is saying?
Thanks again.
Going by experience, be very careful with changing your temporary residence status / category until you get the permanent one. It used to be (not so long ago) that if you changed a temporary status / category, you lost the visa and had to apply for a new temporary visa all over again (and restart the 3 year permanent waiting period) As long as you have the same kind of documents to present, the annual renewals are quite simple. But even the slightest change - lets say the payor name on your pension statement changes next year - can cause big probs. Or lets say you have to show the last 6 months pension payments for each renewal but are missing one. They want to see exact continuity.Very enlightening comment. May I ask you to expand a little?
For my first rentista visa, I have some US retirement accounts (IRA, Keogh) which I'm planning to put into income-producing investments (T-bills, bonds, etc.) to demonstrate the required 2,500 pesos / month income. I don't have a regular pension, just self-managed investments. But after getting that first visa, I was hoping to reallocate the funds elsewhere (for example, to invest for capital gains instead of income).
Are you saying that at each annual renewal of the rentista visa, I will again have to submit evidence of income -- complete with notarized letter and apostille from the US? And is another fresh US police report required too, even if I stayed in BA all year?
What if the funds are moved to a bank in Colonia -- would it be inadvisable to let the Argentine immigration authorities know that one has an account there? Or a final idea -- what about generating 2,500 pesos a month from money in an Argentine bank, for example with the inflation-indexed peso bonds? Not that I want to do that, but it is feasible.
If the above understanding is correct, would it be more advisable to get a business entrepreneur visa instead, since I have an established company with a 10-year-plus history? Just wondering if that would ease the visa renewals, by means of simpler and / or more local (Argentine) documentation. Having already been through some of the time-consuming document collection / notarization / apostille process at the US end, I want to avoid having to fly back each year and do it all over again.
David Ross
10-02-06, 10:10
Has anyone tried just re-newing every 90 days their visa at the Department of Immigration, and thus avoiding having to go to Colonia? I used them once, paid AR$100 and they renewed my visa for 90 days after having been here for 90 days. Is it possible that they won't renew the visa if the person has been here more than 6 months per year? In other words, is this department strict about adhering to the no more than six months per year rule that all other officials don't seem to care about?
Thanks.
I just renewed my visa downtown last week, posted under another thread. No problems. 100p. Bring your passport, a photocopy of the information page of your passport and a photocopy of the passport page listing your last renewal. I have been here almost a year, with previous renewals done via Colonia. Get downtown by 8 am and you should be out by 10 at the latest.
David Ross
10-02-06, 20:54
Dogboy, thanks for the information on renewing my visa at the Department of Immigration in Retiro. I'm going there tomorrow morning and I'll post soon after my experience.
David Ross.
I, too, renewed downtown. I entered Migraciones on a Friday morning at 11:38 and left 12 minutes later with a renewal. Yes, 12 minutes. My only wait was at the cashiers window for about 3 minutes. At the day and hour of my visit there were employees clamoring to help me as there was a dearth of applicants. The cashier window closes at 2 p. M, be advised. For really fast in / out service bring copies as I did and as Doggboy advises and avoid the line at the photocopy.
It is my understanding that renewals can be done downtown every other time and that the 'other time' means a trip out of Argentina. Now, if one is over the 90 day limit a different scenario may / probably come into play.
12 minutes! That's got to be a record. You must have charmed some beauracrat Hound.
David Ross
10-04-06, 08:40
Renewed my visa yesterday at the "Dirección Nacional de Migraciones" and it took a total of 70 minutes. It would have been a lot faster if it had not been for three people ahead of me that had all sorts of problems renewing their visas. Also, the workers at the visa renewal section stoped working for about 15 minutes to smoke, at their respective desks, in a building that has signs clearly marked that smoking is not allowed. I reported the fuckers to their jefe and I called a Clarin reporter that I happen to know. He said he will try and hangout there this week and do a story and take photos.
However, in spite of a few problems, the visa renewal is pretty easy and it beats going to one of the most boring places in the world, Colonia, Uruguay.
Thomaso276
10-04-06, 11:29
DR: Are you calling the Clarin to report violations of prostitution laws as well?
David Ross
10-04-06, 11:46
Thomaso, I will report you, only if I see you hanging out in front of my apartment building dressed in a free flowing gown, fishnet stockings, stileto heals, lips painted in deep red lipstick, and screaming that the woman deep inside of you is screaming to get out. Espero que tengas un bello día.
Who cares if people are smoking in a building. It is Argentina, not USA and if you want rules like that then stay in the USA. I do not think you should make Argentina be more like USA and start complaining about everything. You are in Argentina, feel the vibe, and enjoy it, laugh a little and leave it at that.
Who cares if people are smoking in a building. It is Argentina, not USA and if you want rules like that then stay in the USA. I do not think you should make Argentina be more like USA and start complaining about everything. You are in Argentina, feel the vibe, and enjoy it, laugh a little and leave it at that.Amen!
I couldn't agree more!
David
David Ross
10-05-06, 09:22
Ampfofu you wrote: "It is Argentina, not USA and if you want rules like that then stay in the USA."
It appears to me that only a person who lacks an understanding of the Argentine culture could write the above. I was in the Department of Immigration when the employees decided to stop working and smoke in front of the clients that pay to get their paperwork and documents in order. This is typical argentine arrogance, "soberbia", which has gotten Argentina into a repetive crisis on average every ten to 15 years. The thinking, I believe, of the employees, was something like this; these people here using this service are all foreigners and they are not going to complain. If you think Argentines are not prejudiced try studying the history of this country and read about which groups were expelled from the country during the proceso or military junta.
By the way, I am not from the USA, I am from Italy, the country from which came a bunch of italians that helped create this country. Actually, about 50% of Argentines can trace their roots to Italy. I think, I know the argentine culture a little better than you. In Italy, when we changed the smoking laws a few years ago, the same crap occured.
Your statement, "go back to the USA, tells me that you are a person that lacks an opposed thumb, have cloven hooves, and in the presence of stimuli you move towards the light, like an amoeba, by means of pseudopods. One final note, you sound like a person, that when you see something improper, you don't complain, you act like sheep, you follow and just go along with whatever happens.¿Is this why the USA is known as a "nation of followers"?
Que aproveches de mi mensaje!
¿Is this why the USA is known as a "nation of followers"?No, it's why the Italians are known as a nation of agressive complainers!
Que aproveches de mi mensaje!I think you came here to have fun - lighten up!
This goes for plenty of Americans as well (including perhaps me sometimes) who want to enjoy the life style here but get annoyed because they don't do everything the way we would prefer (or the way they do it "back home")
Neither you nor I have enough invested in contributing to Argentina to validate interfering with the culture, especially on the "rat them out" level that you feel you are entitled to because some people from your country moved here 100 years ago.
Your notion of improving things is to make life harder for a few people who are working at underpaid jobs, in a country with 25% unemployment - what else have you done to make this country a better place?
I do NOT intend to start a flame war, and will not respond to your inevitable rebuttal, but it IS the way I feel.
Saludos!
David
But it IS the way I feel.Amen, Captain!
¿Is this why the USA is known as a "nation of followers"?So who exactly were we following when we landed on the moon?
Thanks,
Jackson
David Ross
10-05-06, 13:36
Captain DAvid wrote: "Your notion of improving things is to make life harder for a few people who are working at underpaid jobs, in a country with 25% unemployment - what else have you done to make this country a better place?"
David, I have done and continue to do much. I will give you a few examples:
Just this week purchased a walker (andador) for a child who had his club foot operated. I am spending 4oo pesos a month for food for families who are hungry (did you know that more than 6 babys die everyday from hunger en la argentina? I am working gratis with health authorities to reduce the deaths in hospitals from infections, because doctors and hospital staff will not wash their hands (did you know about fifty thousand people die every year from infections contracted while hospitalized en la argentina?) I collect cellular telephones from expats who are not returning to the country and donating them to agencies that work with abused and battered women, this way they can make emergency calls when an abusive husband or boyfriend comes around. I am currently helping a family in Villa Lugano build a house (have you seen what these houses are like outside of Belgrano or Vincente Lopez? I've seen better in Africa and the Phillipines.
I am having fun, but I am not living like a satisfied pig that just lays back and accepts things as they are. I am quite imbedded in the culture of this great country and I have a great respect and love for it's people.
Relax Captain David, I'm familiar with your fine work.
Captain DAvid wrote: "Your notion of improving things is to make life harder for a few people who are working at underpaid jobs, in a country with 25% unemployment - what else have you done to make this country a better place?"
David, I have done and continue to do much. I will give you a few examples:
Just this week purchased a walker (andador) for a child who had his club foot operated. I am spending 4oo pesos a month for food for families who are hungry (did you know that more than 6 babys die everyday from hunger en la argentina? I am working gratis with health authorities to reduce the deaths in hospitals from infections, because doctors and hospital staff will not wash their hands (did you know about fifty thousand people die every year from infections contracted while hospitalized en la argentina? I collect cellular telephones from expats who are not returning to the country and donating them to agencies that work with abused and battered women, this way they can make emergency calls when an abusive husband or boyfriend comes around. I am currently helping a family in Villa Lugano build a house (have you seen what these houses are like outside of Belgrano or Vincente Lopez? I've seen better in Africa and the Phillipines.
I am having fun, but I am not living like a satisfied pig that just lays back and accepts things as they are. I am quite imbedded in the culture of this great country and I have a great respect and love for it's people.
Relax Captain David, I'm familiar with your fine work.David.
If what you say is true, I will offer a (partial) apology for insinuating that you doing nothing but "skimming the cream".
Although I will stick to my guns about lightening up and letting the culture sort itself out, I would like to give you credit where it is due.
Saludos,
David
David Ross
10-05-06, 14:39
Como vos, todo que escribí es solo una parte de todas cosas que estoy haciendo en la argentina. Como te había dicho una vez en el pasado, "me gusta que vos estés haciendo un buen trabajo acá"; espero que continúes. Estoy bastante feliz y relajado en todos mis actividades. Paz mi amigo.
EDITOR's NOTE: While I encourage contributions from all volunteers, the Forum is an English-only website. Please do not post reports in any language other than English. Thanks!
Thomaso276
10-05-06, 15:09
DR: I looked at some of your prior posts and found another rookie who offers very little in the way of valuable information to this board and then decides to insult others. As usual these rookies are quick to point out how wordly, well-read and wonderful they are when they get a ribbing.
The internet is a great tool for self-promotion and fantasy. Who the heck knows what anyone else doing? Just because someone says it, doesn't make it true. I wonder how tenable your social and heroic position here in BA would be if your admirers knew you where asking about privados and P4P sessions? Not that there is anything wrong with that. Get off your high horse and chill out. Have a smoke and relax. Go get a hand job.
As well, this is an English board.
Later
DR: Zaskudnie ha golobo konsets. Indoro o nestros ha kaleskias estadarna. W viskudnia alor "chicas"!
EDITOR's NOTE: While I encourage contributions from all volunteers, the Forum is an English-only website. Please do not post reports in any language other than English. Thanks!
David Ross
10-05-06, 18:42
[QUOTE=Thomaso276]DR: I looked at some of your prior posts and found another rookie who offers very little in the way of valuable information to this board and then decides to insult others. As usual these rookies are quick to point out how wordly, well-read and wonderful they are when they get a ribbing.
The internet is a great tool for self-promotion and fantasy. Who the heck knows what anyone else doing? Just because someone says it, doesn't make it true. I wonder how tenable your social and heroic position here in BA would be if your admirers knew you where asking about privados and P4P sessions? Not that there is anything wrong with that. Get off your high horse and chill out. Have a smoke and relax. Go get a hand job.
As well, this is an English board.
Thomaso, wow, what brillant analysis! Wow, what a discovery that I like to f*** chicas! WTF does screwing women have to do with what I do with my spare time or for that matter WTF does you going to El Alamo have to do with you dressing up like a woman in your spare time? It's obvious that you are hurt, it's obvious you are lashing out, it's obvious you are attacking me as if though you were an old queen.
Nothing like smokers vs. anti smokers to start a meaningless bunch of horseshit. Let's get on to the other "path to nowhere" arguments, like motorcycle helmets and seat belts. Personally, I like to smoke both cigarettes and reefer while tooling around on my hog sans helmet. Taking a hit off my handy bottle of Bushmill's and screaming epithets at seat belt wearing faggots.
Hey David Ross,
I do not know you and you do not know me. That is the good part of this board. One thing we all have here is our Passion or love for Argenitna. Yes I am from USA. In fact I live in USA and am writing from USA right now. My family lives in Argentina, My uncles, my aunts, cousins. I know what the living conditions are in Argentina. Ohhhh yes. My family did come from Italy. Argentina and I have some close ties.
It is interesting to learn about the politics of Argentina, just as it is about any country. (I am partial to Argentina though) Since I do not live in Argentina I do not get involved in Argentine debates. It is nice to hear about your saint-like attributes. I am sure the people appreciate it. However It is just a Little smoke I am talking about. I HATE smoking, but it is funny to see what people do to themselves over a smoke. Just chill out. I am American and Proud to be who I am because I have chosen to be the person I am. And if you. Ahhh never mind. I wish you much luck.
Thomaso276
01-04-07, 21:03
The following web page has tons of info on what, how and where to get DNI, Criminal history, and other important papers for any DNI, visa, etc. Questions you might have. Check the Tramite tab for critical info. For example, tells you what papers you need for criminal history, different places you can go to, how much it costs. Very informative stuff for those that need it.
http://www.argentina.gov.ar/argentina/portal/paginas.dhtml?pagina=356
Thomaso276
01-09-07, 18:40
For those of you with the 2 year residence status letter, most expiring around May 2007, as well as the follow-up Foreigner DNI; here is some info.
I went to Immigration this morning to ask about the renewal procedure. I had heard that they will not renew the DNI until immigration okays their original papers. If you do not have the DNI you will still need to get another 2 year renewal (I think) under the original plan.
The girl at the desk said they had no procedure in place yet on how to renew- she could not advise if I needed another criminal history from the USA, or Arg. Or any other original paperwork (she semed to think I would need the papers - then agian we are not taliking about someone who runs the place) She recommended calling about a month before the expiration date for info. There are going to be thousands of Chinese going through this procedure as well so I imagine it will be a mess!
Walked over to 25 of May building where DNI busines is handled. The girl there (no appt. Needed fo foreigner information requests) confirmed that my DNI is easily renewed for a small fee after Immigration figures out how they are going to okay the letter.
Remember the original 2 year letter was done under a special decree from the President creating a new program so it is all still up in the air.
Thanks for keeping on top of this!
Saludos!
David
Okay UNCLE I give!
I spent a good deal of time in the last six months trying to obtain a resident document and /or a DNI. I can't thank Thomas 0 enough for his assistance. I read the Argenting gov't official board for the neccessary documents, made many trips to the various offices around town for varing documents and stamps, etc. I got all my U. S. Documents with the official Sec of State stamps, had it all translated (to the tune of about 500p) stood in numerous lines to get a number to go stand in another line to speak with someone for two minutes and be told I had to go a certain bank and pay 5p to get a paper stamped and return to the office before 8 am to get the paper filled out.
One really good thing is there aren't many people in town now, so the lines are "shorter".
Today I went to migraciones to turn all the paperwork in and complete the application process. They looked at everything, told me it was fine and then asked me the reason I wanted a DNI. I told them I wanted to live here and I needed a DNI to open a bank account, get insurance for my car and my house and be able to obtain an Argentine credit / debit card to make paying the bills easier than going to Pago Facil every month, etc. In other words I wanted to try an normalize my "Argentine" life. Well the response I got just about buckled my knees, they told me that I was not elliglble for a residence letter or DNI.
I needed to be retired (with a pension), marry an Argentine, find that my parents or grandparents were of Argentine descent, or be a citizen of a Mercsur country.
I talked to three or four differnet people, it was kind of funny in a sad way, because they had the whole staff at one table standing and talking about my issue. They told me the information on the web page was outdated. They finally called over a "supervisor" who spoke English. My Spanish is about a third grade level, but I understood everything they told me and I think they understood me also. He basically told me the same, "sorry but we cannot give you a residence without a reason".
I tell you this story because I am not ready to quit. I was hoping that someone from this board might have knowledge of a good Argentine lawyer that has experience in immigration issues. If so please post it here or send my a pm, I would really like to have consultation in the next week if possible. Thanks in advance for all the help!
Hey Sky Ryder,
I will be starting the process to normalize my paperwork here in March when I get back. Though just to let you know, if you have bought property in BA, you should have been able to get a savings account without a DNI. You will have to have an interview with the " Gerente ". And the final decision lies with them, but if you were purchasing property and using their bank to do the transaction, you should have been able to get at least a savings account with them. I will go into this later in another thread.
Second, on this very thread on page 5 or 6 there is a link posted by another monger with this website. I have yet to contact the company, but the post said that this company charges around 700 US, to do all the paperwork for you. For those who like waiting in lines I could say try to do it yourself, but I for one would rather pay someone to wait in line for me. Let them have the headache. Anyhow, on that same website there is a list of catagories you need to fall into to be eligible for a resident visa. And here they are:
http://www.afnvisas.com.ar/
Califican para radicarse en Argentina:
• Padre, cónyuge o hijo / a de ciudadano argentino.
• Padre, cónyuge o hijo / a (soltero, menor de 21 años o discapacitado a cargo de sus padres) de extranjero con residencia temporaria o permanente.
• Estudiantes (Excluidos los primarios que cursen estudios en establecimientos de gestión pública o privada de reconocimiento oficial)
• Trabajadores contratados por personas físicas o jurídicas.
• Empresario u hombre de negocios.
• Representantes de empresas extranjeras.
• Migrante con capital propio suficiente para el desarrollo de una actividad productiva, comercial o de servicios (Personas que hayan efectuado una inversión de $100.000 en las actividades ya mencionadas o poseer dicha suma para luego invertirla en nuestro país.
• Rentista (Personas que acrediten una renta por inversiones en el exterior o en nuestro país con fondos provenientes del exterior)
• Pensionado.
I do not know your personal situation but you could probably fall into this catagory.
" Migrante con capital propio suficiente para el desarrollo de una actividad productiva, comercial o de servicios (Personas que hayan efectuado una inversión de $100.000 en las actividades ya mencionadas o poseer dicha suma para luego invertirla en nuestro país. "
It is basically the same in most northern european countries, the sure fire way to get residency and later citizenship is to invest or be ready to invest a significant amount of money into the country.
I hope this was somewhat helpful. I will post my experience as soon as I get my residency. Though again, in my honest opinion, your best bet is to hire a consultant firm that will do the grunt work for you. Let them decide what kind of resident visa you are or could be eligible for.
Badboy
I was wondering if anybody has had some experience renewing their rentista (retiree visa) Specifically, the normal one, not the 2 year Chinese one. It seems like most discussion has been on the 2 year one.
Mine needs to be renewed every year for 3 years before it becomes permanent.
1. Where do you go to renew it? The office on 25 de mayo?
2. How carefully do they look at those bank statements showing the $2500p being transferred in every month from the states?
Any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Penguin
Thomaso276
01-30-07, 20:17
In my experience all foreign DNI issues are handled at 25 de Mayo. In fact last year I met a kid in the line who was there to renew his student visa.
Do not wait in the long line, go to the front entrance and tell the guard you are there for foreign DNI issues. Once inside just to the right is a large sign over the desk for foreign dni issues.
PS: Badboy: although they charge, these companies cannot wait in line for your argentine criminal history, usa or country of origin criminal history, get your birth certificate, or other suporting docs from outside argentina. I think they just have you get all the docs, hopefully they include the official translation costs (which have gone up tremendously in the last two years) and service, then with a power of atty they probably have someone wait in line to present the final package and pick up your papers when they are ready.
PS: Badboy: although they charge, these companies cannot wait in line .Well there goes that idea, thanks for the heads up. As I said, I haven't contacted them, but the post I had read simply said they handled all the paperwork. If I still have to do everything and all they do is basically drop off and pick up the paperwork, what good are they? Well I guess there won't be any lazy way to do it. But since you seem to know a little bit more maybe you can answer this: Do you think it is worth it to hire a consultant to at least figure out what visa you do qualify for? I am asking because there is like 2-3 I think I qualify for but I am not 100% sure.
Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks again.
Bad
Badboy,
I would go with a local immigration services firm. I had a friend that used one and I think it cost about 500 pesos for the initial visa, and they'll tell you straightaway if you're eligible for one of the residence categories or not.
I heard that the English speaking firms that advertise on the web targeting Americans charge several thousand US$ for the same thing.
Hanging out at one of the immigration buildings like 25 de Mayo or anywhere around Tribunales you will see flyers for every legal / immigration service imaginable.
As Thomaso says, almost every tramite in Argentina is personal - you can't have someone wait in line for you, though you can buy spaces in some long lines. But such a firm will definitely help you with the paperwork, changing regs, and corrections going back and forth. Well worth 500 pesos.
Thomaso276
01-31-07, 12:35
The problem with hiring a consultant is trying to verify their ability to produce. Unlike the USA there is no way to search for complaints, lawsuits, ratings for firms down here. I spoke with a friend last night who used a company for help and his papers kept getting bounced back from immigration for more information.
If they were the experts why did his papers need more treatment so many times? Couldn't they tell him the first time what was needed?
I agree with Moore, stay away from the English centered places who charge big bucks. Actually if you just go to immigration they can answer all your questions, but I would bring along a Spanish speaker who is smart and can take notes for the tricky stuff.
Bottom line: when I first started for the pension visa (which I dropped) I needed the following papers from the USA, all with an apostille stamp and officially translated down here.
Apostille stamps are letters for civil documents. With a criminal history or other letter, the signature must be notarized, then the apostille confirms the notary - check with the sect'y of state for your local papers, Dept of state for any national papers.
Birth Certificate certified copy.
Criminal History (a letter from your local PD will do stating you have no NCIC and (your state) CIC record (CIC is crime information center - National and State needed) or from FBI. You need to get this in USA with fingerprints.
Proof of pension - for example the final order from a pension board confirming you will receive a pension.
Income statements from pension - last 6 months I think.
You may also need two years of tax returns from what I hear.
Papers from Argentina:
Criminal history from PFA.
Confirmation of domicilio from local precinct.
A full copy of your passport - all pages whether empty or not.
The special program a few of us got in with dropped the pension requirements and proof of income issues.
If they were the experts why did his papers need more treatment so many times? Couldn't they tell him the first time what was needed?Because Argentina is generally a hyperbureaucratic clusterfuck. It would probably take the best immigration expert a couple tries/returns before success. Passing papers back and forth and requesting additional items is the norm.
There are so many documents, stamps, official translations, legalizations, notarizations, etc required for the immigration process - so many potential errors / omissions.
As mentioned, I highly recommend using a local specialist.
Thomaso, what special program do you mean re the quote below?
"The special program a few of us got in with dropped the pension requirements and proof of income issues. "
Thanks,
Bodhi
Thomaso276
02-03-07, 11:39
It was a 2005 decree signed by Pres geared toward Chinese, as well as some other qualifying countries. Minimal requirements, shortened paperwork, higher fee and the program ran for about 6 - 8 months, then ended. Since then, the original requirements are back in place.
Those of us who went thru it got a letter saying we were residents for 2 years and you could take that letter and apply for a foreginer DNI if you wanted.
Thomaso refers to 25 de Mayo as if it's a building but I believe, will know when I get there tomorrow, the address is 25 de Mayo 179. Weekdays, hours of 08:00 to 13:00. Correct on this Thomaso?
StrayLight
02-06-07, 23:09
Thomaso refers to 25 de Mayo as if it's a building but I believe, will know when I get there tomorrow, the address is 25 de Mayo 179. Weekdays, hours of 08:00 to 13:00. Correct on this Thomaso?The building is on 25 de Mayo 1 1/2 blocks north of Casa Rosada, and on the right-hand side of the street as you're walking north. It is almost directly across the street from a cafe called Cafe Robin.
There will be no mistaking it. Throngs of foreigners will be outside trying to get in past the hired security guards.
The last few times I went I thought the place opened at 10:00 am, but I could be wrong.
SL
Thomaso276
02-07-07, 01:13
Correct on the address and location. Can't miss the long lines. This is for DNI only. Immigration handles the residency issue. (Simply put - You need residency before you can get a DNI)
Update: Today my GF called immigration (behind the Sheraton hotel on Libatador) to see if they had developed a process for renewing the 2 year residence (letter) which is needed to then renew the foreigner dni. My GF is great but not the best secretary so from what I understand they have a renewal system in place. 400 pesos (same as original cost) and your personal information. No talk of needing another criminal history from here or USA, confirmation of domicillio, translations, etc.
I am going down early tommorrow (Wed Feb. 8) to get first hand specifics and will post ASAP with all pertinent information. I wil be bringing the original letter, dni, passport as my only documents.
Thomaso276
02-07-07, 12:13
Went to Immjigration this morning around 9 am. They have in place the system to renew the two year residence under the Decreto 1169/04 (Look at your letter for reference to this decree)
1. They are only accepting renewals between the hours of 3pm and 7:30pm in building number 4 - which is part of the whole complex.
2. Summary: You need a criminal history for Argentina (PFA) - you can get this at the Immigration building or at Tucuman 1353. I believe you need a confirmation of domicillio to get a CH, although the web page for CH info (below) doesn't say (I cannot remember if I needed one before) I ordered one (confirmation of domicillio) this morning from my local precint and will go for the CH probably Friday. Here is web page for CH:
http://www.argentina.gov.ar/argentina/tramites/index.dhtml?frame1=3&tema=8&subtema=254&tramite=850&ea=2#a5
3. You need your original passport or DNI and the original letter giving you the two year residence. (I would bring copies of everything as well)
4. 300 pesos (down from original 400 we paid two years ago - I stand corrected on all my inflation complaints!
I scanned the paper from immigration but it is too big and as a PDF I do not think they can be resized. I cut and pasted to Word. Hope it works. If not I'll send Jackson the scan for his expertise about posting big files.
Thomaso276
02-07-07, 14:59
I am trying to find out if after the immigration renewal, I need a second CH from the PFA and confirmation of domicillio to renew the DNI!
Thomaso276
02-09-07, 16:09
Went to 1353 Tucuman this morning for my antecendent penal. Arrived at 740 am (they open at 7:30) was number 106. Finished process in two hours.
Some info: I brought along, but never showed my original passport, you do need to have a copy of your passport (just personal info / picture page not the whole thing) - no other paperwork asked for.
Pricing structure is 25 pesos for 5 day delivery, 40 for 24 hours, 50 for 8 hour.
I got the 50 peso because I want to go Monday afternoon for immigration. I can picked up the CH today at 6pm but will wait till Monday morning.
The 8 hour delivery for 40 bucks uses an electronic reader to take your prints - avoiding that messy black ink.
Specifics for process: wait in line along sidewalk, enter and turn left to a desk where a lady asks you what delivery hours you want, she gives you an application based on that and number for service, get in line for the bank which is along the wall on left side of building, fill out the application - very simple but bring a pen or buy one from the guy at front door, pay the fee and then wait anywhere till they flash your number. They do the number board by 10 so if you are number 39 and the board goes from 30 to 41 That means they are ready for the next 10 applicants, get in the very short line that is roped off and controlled by security and he will send you to a desk for printing.
When you are ready for pick-up go to the desk in the middle of the room (I think it said identity)
This is a small building so although it loks uncoordinated it runs pretty smoothly.
Amantelondres
02-09-07, 20:21
When I was a toddler living in Buenos Aires there used to be "fixers" (I can't remember the Argentine word) who would accompany you through the whole process of obtaining your cedula or DNI or any other document. Generally, they had very good contacts within the various departments and were able to short circuit the whole process. Has anyone had any experience with such people?
Daddy Rulz
02-09-07, 20:39
when I was a toddler living in Buenos Aires there used to be "fixers" (I can't remember the Argentine word) who would accompany you through the whole process of obtaining your cedula or DNI or any other document. Generally, they had very good contacts within the various departments and were able to short circuit the whole process. Has anyone had any experience with such people?I seem to recall Saint talking about using somebody like that. Maybe 3 years ago or so.
Spassmusssein
02-11-07, 18:07
GESTOR.
Is the word of these helpfull people who will accompany in any "tramite" of visa, DNI, Cedula, Driving License. They charge reasonable fees and you avoid staying in ques, being rejected or starting with unsufficient "formularios".
For example getting my last cedula, they organised a recomendation of a local politician (whom I never met in life) so I got it within record time and without queing. Costs appr. 700Ps.
Spass,
If you have a name and contact info I would appreciate it. If you aren't comfortable with the public forum you can send me a P. M. I seem to have run into a bit of a brick wall in trying to obtain a DNI or non-resident visa.
I did contact one public firm, but so far they haven't helped at all and I am not hopeful they will come thru for me.
Regards,
Sky
Thomaso276
02-12-07, 17:09
Bad news! If you read the paper I posted from immigration earlier it says under the section Momento y lugar presentacion: something in spanish about getting the paperwork on the "dia habil anterior" (Dia Habil) means workday and "No Antes". Although I asked my GF what it meant she is not the secretary type and was confused; but it is as I thought. However as things down here do not go that smoothly it is always better to go places in person and we live about 7 minutes from Immigration. Off we went today.
It limited the day that you could go to immigration for renewal so they are not loaded down with thousands this week and no one next week. I guess the letters were sent out with a daily limit so renewal would be manageable.
You can only go to immigration the workday day before your letter expires.
Repeat: You can only go to immigration the workday day before your letter expires. If your expiration date is a Sat or Sunday you have to go the preceding Friday, if it is a holiday you have to go the workday before.
My residence is good until May 3, 2007. I was adivsed I could return May 2 for my renewal. They would not do it today or any earlier. I asked about the possibility of being out of the country and they responded there would be a reasonable grace period for being late (she mentioned something about 10 days or so) but there was nothing in writing.
The lady did say the renewal would be quick and easy, no criminal history needed from your home country just what is listed in the document I posted.
We arrived at 2:45pm, second in line, waited until 3:30 pm before thy opened the doors. Only about 12 people in line. They also posted the requirements in Chinese, but not in English!
The quest continues. Next update: will the DNI renewal need another criminal history from USA, translation and ciminal history from PFA? I go next week and will post.
Thomaso,
I owe you at least one expensive steak for taking the point on this stuff!
Thanks again!
David
Thomaso,
I'm sure your posts are useful to anyone going thru the immigration process but I think they best illustrate:
Avoid most of this confusion and wasted time - pay 600 pesos for a local immigration agency that already knows this stuff to personally guide you through it!
Regardless of how well you understand the country and language it is money very well spent.
Marco Porteño
03-12-07, 14:50
In the basement of this ugly building there is this redhead working that has the most amazing boobs, at least D-cup. The good thing is that she is not afraid to show some good cleavage. IMHO another good reason to get a residence permit here!
Bruno Travel
03-16-07, 21:24
My case: expiry date of the residence permit is May 2007 but I am going back to Germany in April (airline ticket)
What I did:
1) 15 days ago I wrote a letter to Migraciones (in Av. Antárdida Argentina) asking them to allow the renewal well before my return to Germany. I included copies of the 2-page-statement they had given me before and of the ticket and sent it by express mail (expreso) Nothing happened, no answer.
2) This Wednesday I went there personally, found out that the decreto-1169/04-renewal is handled from 15-19h, and showed copies of my previous letter at some kind of information desk. The (very fat and very kind) information girl took all my stuff, informed her "jefa" (female boss) who assigned somebody who explained me that I should come back with the criminal history (antecedentes penales that you get in Tucumán see Thomasos posting) my DNI with all relevant pages copied, and the airline ticket plus copy.
3) Today I came back after picking up my "antecedentes" I had applied for yesterday in Tucuman, went to the info desk, was referred to another girl at a computer terminal who took all my stuff, originals and copies, and after having waited about 45 min. And payed 300 Pesos (Yessir! I got my originals back and a small sheet with my "permanencia autorizada" until 16th of March 2009.
I was told to take this to the Renaper (registro nacional de las personas) in 25 de Mayo to get my DNI changed.
Interesting: I had to sign some paper and under my signature I had to write "entiendo el idioma" (I understand the language) - maybe the absolute minimum of a language test.
The 300 Pesos is the regular fee, not an "early renewal fee", I asked.
Conclusions: My impression is if there is a reason which can be proven somehow, best by a document they can check, (and of course the copies of everything) there should be no problem to get the renewal before the scheduled date (contrary to Thomaso's posting) On both days there were very few applicants in Migraciones and an extra slow working rhythm (whereas Tucumán was terrible, especially in the morning)
Probably a letter stating your problem is useful as an application - for their files - but I felt I might have been successful too without it (even though they seemed to be a little bit ashamed that they new nothing about my mailed letter.
I did not see the sign Thomaso had posted about (that you should come one working day before the expiry date etc. Instead there was a small sign stating that the renewal can take place earliest 2 months before the expiry date.
Thomaso276
04-20-07, 17:26
Went down today to see if I could renew just a week or so early for possible personal business (my expiration date is May 2) They told me the same thing about a letter to the Director and a copy of an airline ticket. I have had experience with this asking for special circumstances before and knew about the letter system. My problem is I am not sure if I have to fly out on short notice in the next two weeks so I do not have a ticket, so overall the early request would not help me. I am going to take my chances and ensure I am here on the renewal date.
As well I learned that you need a full (full, full, every page even the blank ones) copy of your Passport and most of the pages copied from your DNI - I cannot remember where the guy pointed that the copies could end (make a full copy to be sure) This information was not in the fact sheet they handed out so have the copies ready because you have to leave the building if you do not hae copies.
Criminal history from Argentina is good for.
1: according to someone on the phone - 3 months.
2: according to someone in the building this afternoon - 6 months.
Hows that for consistency.
Only 120 people there at 3 pm today (remember they limit the renewals by date so it does not get overwhelming. I was the only gringo, 99% Chinese.
Don't know about those folks without a DNI and only the letter for residence.
Everyone seemed to have a DNI, and they asked for it at each point of entry.
Thomaso276
05-02-07, 18:54
Went down today at 2:30 pm. About 100 people total, we were maybe 50th waiting for them to open. No tickets given out because the line was controlled by security.
Entered at 3:10, they did ask for copies of passport, DNI and criminal history (from BA) at the first desk. After checking papers you are given a desk number and you wait in front of the desk. Ours was open. Lady took the papers, my DNI and passport copies and printed out all the info from my database (showed trips to Uruguay) Gave me a letter to sign (swearing you will live a clean life (licito) and can support yourself while in Argentina, print your name and put passport number (or maybe DNI - see below); take the letter over to the cashier, pay 300 pesos, get a reciept and go back to your original number desk. Give the receipt to the lady and sit until she calls your name. About 10 minutes.
Another lady comes out with my approval form (about 5" x 8") light yellow paper and asks for my passport before she hands me the form (checking ID) I SHOW HER THE PASSPORT AND MY DNI. Dumb luck on my part becasue she is a supervisor and points out that the renewal paper has my passport number and should have my DNI number. WHY? Because if I want to renew my DNI (which I do) I need the DNI number on the renewal form they just gave me. With the passport number on the form when I go to Minister of Interior for renewal of my DNI they would treat it like I did not have a DNI and would want to start the whole treatment over again!
I thank her and she speaks to the original desk lady and explains why it is important to have the right document number on the immigration renewal.
They are both apologetic and I tell them I have time so they re-do the form and print it out with the DNI (for those of you who do not have a DNI this two year renewal page will suffice with your passport number on it as not everyone down there had a DNI)
They hand me the new form and I check and notice they did not change my address, even thought the original desk lady noted the change of domicillio. While the original desk lady was pleasant apparently she makes alot of mistakes.
I do not know how important this is (my DNI has the new address) so I return and point it out. Some other girl takes the form, handwrites a change of address on it, initials and stamps and I am off.
As I leave the girl at the information desk (first contact at the top of the stairs) hands me a slip of paper with info about DNI treatment (process) - it points out where to go (100 block of 25 of May Min. Of Interior) that I need to make an appointment and papers I need, - for example: a birth certificate verified and translated!
I turn around and check with her again because I went through all of that two years ago. She explains that is for people who want to APPLY for a DNI, for the renewal I only need to show the yellow paper I just received.
We'll see, cause I am going there soon.
Total time with the delay 1 hour 10 minutes, without the delay 1 hour.
2 gringos, 98 Chinese.
Congrats! Appreciate all the detailed info you have posted on this subject. There are a number of us who plan to move there soon and your posts will be very helpful.
Again, thanks.
Suerte.
Stowe
StrayLight
05-03-07, 12:54
Appreciate all the detailed info you have posted on this subject. I second that.
I just got my antecedentes penal using your earlier post on the subject as a template. You described it perfectly, and it went flawlessly. This visa renewal post provides a nice idea of what to expect, and possible pitfalls to watch out for.
Many thanks,
SL
Thomaso276
05-04-07, 21:33
Took my renewal paper from Immigration, DNI and passport to the Ministry of Interior in the 100 block of 25 de Mayo this morning to renew the DNI. Arrived at 7:20 am and was expecting a big line - not so! Possibly combination of rain and being a Friday (all places here in BA are always busiest on Monday)
Asked the guard where renewal (page title in the booklet is " Prorrogas de Permanencia ") was and he directed me right in. Don't wait in any line outside because those folks are there for something else. Walk straight in to the next guard at the end of the hall and he will direct you to the waiting area on the right side, go to the far right seating. Think of it like an airplane with right and left isle seats, the counter desk workarea is first class. When your turn comes (no numbers yet) give the lady your DNI and renewal approval from Immigration, she will hand you back a number and a small piece of paper with personal info. Now you go to the waiting seats on the left side.
From there you will shuffle up to another small group of seats on your left facing a long counter work area, based on your number and a guy will call numbers. You present your number to him and then papers to a worker behind a computer in his same work area who will print out a paper for you to take to the cashier (caja) The cashier is just behind and to your left. Pay 15 pesos (exact change only) and they give you another piece of paper - the paid receipt.
Turn around and at the counter you will see three or four folks working on papers, one of them is there only to receive your paid receipt, kind of walk to the counter and wave it and he will take it, enter your info and print out a form which he will placed in the in-basket under the other forms. Now you wait for your name to be called. Once called one of the other clerks will take your DNI, renewal from immigration and staple everything together. They hand it to another lady at a back desk (boss) who hand writes in the renewal info, stamps and dates it. You receive only the DNI back - they keep the renewal form from Immigration!
I don't think I will ever need it (obviously the gov't doesn't think I need it) because my DNI in now in the books but I asumed I would get it back and never made a copy before handing in over! If you do not have a DNI, then the paper from Immigration serves as a two year renewal and should be guarded along with your original two page letter.
It is a pretty simple system, just watch the folks in front of you. Although you will be in with people who are there to change home addresses, change civil status, etc. Don't get confused - they go through the same lines. Not everyone is there to renew their temp DNI.
Good luck. Time to complete: 2 hours (they did not start working till about 815 so almost one hour was simply waiting for them to stop kissing hello and taking coffee and start working!
PS: They never asked for passport, copies of any docs , criminal history etc. But I did bring passport
StrayLight
07-04-07, 13:20
Thomaso,
I'm sure your posts are useful to anyone going thru the immigration process but I think they best illustrate:
Avoid most of this confusion and wasted time - pay 600 pesos for a local immigration agency that already knows this stuff to personally guide you through it!
Regardless of how well you understand the country and language it is money very well spent.I could not disagree more. I just went through both the visa renewal and the DNI renewal process, and both were quick, easy, and painless. I spent about 45 minutes in each place. And my Spanish sucks.
Between this website, and a couple of the other expat websites, there is ample information to do this yourself very quickly and cleanly. That 600 pesos can be much better spend on a couple of chica sessions and a good meal or two.
Thanks for all the good intel, Thomaso.
Thomaso276
07-05-07, 09:30
My pleasure.
Rock Harders
08-15-07, 07:22
Mongers,
I just finished the long irritating process of obtaining temporary residence and acquiring a CUIL. The list of required documents is long and arduous but I will describe every part of the process in order to save future applicants from the inconveniences I faced.
First, in order to apply for the "work contract" residency that I received, you must have all of the following:
1. A birth certificate, with apostile, translated in Argentina by an authorized translator.
2. A local USA criminal history, notarized, AND with apostile. An FBI report will also suffice, and it needs no apostile, but it takes much longer than a local report (which took me 5 minutes) and needs fingerprints (local needs nothing)
3. A letter of "antecedentes" from the office at the corner of Uruguay and Tucuman stating that you have no criminal history in Argentina.
4. A work contract drawn up by the account of the sponsoring employer, with attached tax receipts from the past six months.
5. Photocopies of passport (every page) birth certificate, criminal history USA, criminal history Argentina, DNI of sponsoring employer, constititution of the SA of sponsoring employer.
Not having any of these documents will result in an automatic rejection (it happened to me twice) When I originally applied in July I did not have the criminal check apostiled AND a real wild card popped up, they told me because my passport stated my full first, middle and last names, and the apostiled version of the birth certificate (which the state of my birth forced me to get to suck an extra $40 USD out of me) stated only my first name, middle INITIAL and last name, I would need a letter from the US Embassy stating that the birth certificate and passport referred to the same person. Naturally, this cost an extra $30 USD. So having gotten all these unanticipated documents, I went to the Migraciones last Thursday and they regretted to inform me that the letter from the Embassy would need to be stamped by the Argentine cancilleria. I got that taken care of, and finally I returned Friday and I got my Residencia Precaria, and in two months I can return and apply for a DNI. The fee for this was $200 AR.
Yesterday I went to ANSES (Cordoba between Libertad and Cerrito) to apply for a CUIL. I had to show my residence letter to two different receptionist (taking two different tickets) in order to get the priveledge of waiting an hour to get the CUIL. The lady gave me the CUIL but informed me I need to return with my DNI whenever I get it to get a new permanent CUIL. There was no charge for the CUIL.
Suerte,
Dirk Diggler
Thomaso276
08-15-07, 09:58
Dirk,
How much were the translation costs per page? I believe they have gone up and am in the process of getting some papers done so I would like a comparison so I do not get ripped off.
Does your Residencia Precaria have an expiration date, thus needing another renewal?
On a different note, for those who have their 2 year residence papers (and recently renewed) but did not get a DNI, I wonder if after the second renewal it becomes permanent or is the second renewal of the DNI the permanent aspect. In other words can you have permanent residency wiithout having gone through the second step of getting a DNI?
Rock Harders
08-15-07, 23:51
Thomaso-
I am not sure of the translation costs because they, along with all the other costs with obtaining the residency letter were paid for by the business that sponsored me. However, I can find out for you in the near future the costs for the translation. The residencia precaria is good for 90 days, I have to return in 60 days to apply for a DNI and I assume get the paper that is good for the intial 1 year of the work contract. I'll update this as I get more information.
Suerte,
Dirk Diggler
StrayLight
08-20-07, 22:51
...I went to the Migraciones last Thursday and they regretted to inform me that the letter from the Embassy would need to be stamped by the Argentine cancilleria. Hey Dirk,
Where is the Argentine Cancilleria, and how did you go about getting it stamped when you got there?
Thanks,
SL
Member #3320
09-14-07, 09:02
Hello,
Has anyone tried to get his temporary residence / citizenship in Argentina via marriage to a local girl?
If yes, can you advise me of the hurdles in such a scenario?
Does pre-nups exsist in Argentina?
How long does it to take to become a citizen via marriage? I heard that in Brazil, it takes just 1 year, if you are married to a local.
Do you guys think, some girl might cooperate for mutual benefits?
Any advise would be highly appreciated.
Thanks.
P. S: BTW, I am not eligible for residency via annuity or pension or work contracts.
Thomaso276
09-14-07, 10:52
Marriage will get you permanent residence, but you still have to go thru the immigration paperwork posted on their webpage (criminal histories, proof of income, translations, etc. - see the many posts about this) You then get a DNI.
Pre-nuptials are worthless according to a lawyer friend of mine because of the continental law view of marriage / family. The contract cannot supercede the rights of wives, family.
I do not think there is a big demand here for arranged marriages, like in the USA, so one can gain residency status.
The simplist way to permanent resident is to have a business here. Subject to personal checks and criminal record which is the same for nearly all countries. You import the money for a business and if you have a business plan, contact an immigration agent and he will set you straight. I guess if it went smoothly, the fee would be around U$1,000. But for Argentina, relatively straight forward and easy.
Member #3320
09-14-07, 11:06
Hello everyone,
I am not elegibe for residency via Annuity, pension or work contract.
I was thinking of marriage option. Though its plausible but looks a bit risky to me!
Can anyone give his views on Residency via investment? I had contacted "ARCA" but they refused point blank to help me as a investor. They said its very risky.
Can anyone give me first hand info on investor driven visa? I have no time to run a business.
All I am looking for 3-4 month stay in Argentina every year. Can a mutiple-entry student visa help? If yes, how to go about it.
Member #3320
09-14-07, 11:10
Argento,
I need your advise please.
Importing money is NO problem at all.
However, I have no business acumen plus I don't intend starting a business. I am employee of a MNC outside Argentina with 3-4 months vacation every year which I want to spend in BA.
But I don't mind buying something like goverment bonds or something. I don't mind donating some hard cash for getting my visa.
Please advise how to go about it?
Also, which imiigration agent to contact?
Thanks in advance
Thomaso276
09-14-07, 13:47
Captain,
Your positions seem to be changing on every post. If you have 3-4 months vacation every year then just come down on your passport, which allows you to stay for three months at a time. Plus you seem to be asking questions about how to circumvent the legal system, insinuating bribes.
I have reported your posts to the moderator as they violate the board rules.
Member #3320
09-14-07, 16:53
Captain,
Your positions seem to be changing on every post. If you have 3-4 months vacation every year then just come down on your passport, which allows you to stay for three months at a time. Plus you seem to be asking questions about how to circumvent the legal system, insinuating bribes.
I have reported your posts to the moderator as they violate the board rules.Thomaso,
You being a senior member (I respect all senior members here) of this forum & that you have reported my post to moderator, hence I am trying clarify myself here.
After I read your post, I immediately went & once again read the rules of this forum very carefully once again (I had already read them few times before I put my posts) I think I have not broken any law yet in my posts.
You are mistaken in understanding my posts. Let me me clarify that I am a law abiding citizen of the world with a impeccable character record. I have absolutely no intention of circumventing law in any manner whatsoever.
All I suggested was that I don't have a business acumen to start business & hence can't start a business but don't mind spending the required amount as insinuated by authorities in a investment as long it helps me get residency.
Lastly, the reason I want residency because ultimately I want to retire in Argentina. However, in next few years I just will spend 3-4 months a year, so for time being even a multi-entry student visa will suffice. However, I have to plan for my retirement & hence must take residency. And the reason, I don't want to come every time on a tourist visa because the country where I live its a very tedious process, where you have to show air ticket in advance, Hotel bookings in advance, etc etc, before filling the application form at the counsullate.
So basically, I just want to come & enjoy the good things which Argentina has to offer like every one, spend my money, meet nice people etc etc. I don't think, I am circumventing the law in any way, this way, either in my though process or in my posts.
Pardon for the long explanation but felt it was necessary.
Also, pardon if my posts did imply circumventing any legal procedures.
Thomaso,
You being a senior member (I respect all senior members here) of this forum & that you have reported my post to moderator, hence I am trying clarify myself here.
After I read your post, I immediately went & once again read the rules of this forum very carefully once again (I had already read them few times before I put my posts) I think I have not broken any law yet in my posts.
You are mistaken in understanding my posts. Let me me clarify that I am a law abiding citizen of the world with a impeccable character record. I have absolutely no intention of circumventing law in any manner whatsoever.
All I suggested was that I don't have a business acumen to start business & hence can't start a business but don't mind spending the required amount as insinuated by authorities in a investment as long it helps me get residency.
Lastly, the reason I want residency because ultimately I want to retire in Argentina. However, in next few years I just will spend 3-4 months a year, so for time being even a multi-entry student visa will suffice. However, I have to plan for my retirement & hence must take residency. And the reason, I don't want to come every time on a tourist visa because the country where I live its a very tedious process, where you have to show air ticket in advance, Hotel bookings in advance, etc etc, before filling the application form at the counsullate.
So basically, I just want to come & enjoy the good things which Argentina has to offer like every one, spend my money, meet nice people etc etc. I don't think, I am circumventing the law in any way, this way, either in my though process or in my posts.
Pardon for the long explanation but felt it was necessary.
Also, pardon if my posts did imply circumventing any legal procedures.Then visit for 89 days. No special visa needed. Problem solved.
Punter 127
09-14-07, 20:36
And the reason, I don't want to come every time on a tourist visa because the country where I live its a very tedious process, where you have to show air ticket in advance, Hotel bookings in advance, etc etc, before filling the application form at the counsullate.Hi Captain,
If you tell us what country you live in that has this "very tedious process" for a tourist visa, perhaps we would have a better understanding of what you are looking for.
Thomaso276
09-14-07, 22:05
Okay Captain. Good luck
Captain,
As a citizen of the U. S. Or the European Union (and I woould assume a lot more countries as well) you do not need a visa to enter Argentina. So, just present your passport, get an entry stamp and start enjoying your time. As long as you want to come for vacation each year, even for several months, this is just fine.
If you want to retire in Argentina, at the time of your retirement you might be eligible for the pension visa (I think you have to demonstrate income of at least USD 2000 per month)
An investors visa is difficult. My lawyer advised me against it, despite the fact that I would easily fulfil the monetary requirements. Also, it is NOT easy to bring money into the country, there are several things to observe, in most cases you have to deposit 30% of your cash as an interest free loan to the Argentine central bank.
2 centavos de.
El Alemán
Member #3320
09-16-07, 06:12
Thank you All for all the advise on Resident visa.
Can anyone suggest me a good, very smart, immigration lawyer in BA well versed with English language?
I am already in touch with ARCA for sometime, but somehow things arent working out with Lorena.
Cheers
Captain,
If you want to retire in Argentina, at the time of your retirement you might be eligible for the pension visa (I think you have to demonstrate income of at least USD 2000 per month)
El AlemánEl Alemán, the actual amount for a person applying under the category retired (pensionado) is AR$2,000 pesos, not US$2,000 dollars. For additional information click on the site below and then go to the bottom of the page and click on the third from last word document that has the words rentistas / pensionados.
http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/migraciones/permisos.asp
Hope this information helps.
Facundo,
I did read this document, but some time ago. What I wrote was out of memory, and as one can see, this can fail.
Regards,
El Alemán
Member #3320
09-16-07, 10:13
Hello Experienced guys,
Can you please advise, some first hand information on Rentista visa?
I have been in touch with "ARCA" and the lady there by the name of "Lorena" says that, Argentine 2500 $ required every month for Rentista visa elegibility can NOT be:
A) Generated from a monthly income via my profession.
B) Generated from a fixed deposit in my bank in home country.
C) Generated from a rental income (she says I must open a company, put the property in name of the company & show the rental income as money generated from business!
D) Generated from simply transferring Argentine $ 60,000 one time for proof of funds for 2 years (this procedure is very popular in Costa Rica)
E) Generated from simply having a steady long time huge bank balance in my home country.
She keeps using the word "passive" income which is fair enough. However, I fail to understand that why can't simply prooving that you have the funds & have them steadily for long time, suffice.
With full respect to the authorities, may I know any reasons why they have made this procedure which could have been so simple a bit complicated?
I do understand that they want only financially stable people in the country. However, It would be prudent to let people bring in one go, the expenses required for 48 months and these may be locked in some fund with a monthly release of 2500 pesos.
It would be SO EASY.
I wish I knew good spanish. I would have definitely suggested this to them via the web
It looks to me you have to have a Govt. Pension like soc sec or military, etc. You might inquire about an annuity in the us funding your 2500p per month.
You will find many circlejerks in your quest to get a residency here. A bunch of guys living here choose to go with the 90 day visa jump. I chose a "special plan " (available 2 years ago and now terminated) which was somewhat easy but filled with angst when watching the huge, slovenly beauracracy process the papers.
If I had to do it over and knowing now what this country is like, I would go with the 90 day routine. BA is seductive, but once the knickers are dropped, you might not be pleased with all you see.
The residency visa and DNI do give you some benefits lke reduced internal air fares. Unless you do a lot of internal flights, its a marginal benefit.
Spend 90 days and do a visa run to Uruguay to get another 90 days. If you are convinced the residency rat race is worth it then jump in and pack a lunch.
Best wishes. And keep us posted.
You might want to reseach this excellent forum under this thread, and read the trials and tribulations of the intrepid Thomaso.
Jackpot
Member #3320
09-16-07, 16:59
Thanks Jackpot.
Your views well noted. Good food for thought!
There was another poster some time ago complaining about the mis-information from these "visa help companies" which may or may not have been ARCA.
As I recall, he said he was able to obtain the visa easily, with a bank letter. But he said the information from the visa companies indicated this was impossible.
The way I read the rentista stuff(from the link provided below), what ARCA says is flat wrong:
Quote:
Rentistas:
Certificación emitida por la entidad obligada a hacer la remesa de los fondos, en la que conste que los mismos se originan de:
QInversiones en bancos del exterior.-
QRemesas provenientes de instituciones bancarias ó financieras del exterior.-
Endquote.
That expressly says that a bank or other financial company in your country may issue a letter (certificate) of their obligation to pay the funds to you.
I would look for better information. By the way, you never did say what country you are from. If it is that bad, then there may be other problems here?
Member #3320
09-17-07, 14:13
Thanks Lexton,
I also feel that ARCA is making some error in defining the requirements for a "rentista" visa. It almost seems, that they want to make it sound very complicated to prove their worth.
Now, I am in touch with 2 different immigration lawyers in BA. Both of them are quite positive that I qualify, since I have surplus funds to support myself for 3 years.
However, as far as my nationality is concerned, I personally feel that for a healthy atmosphere on a internet forum, its best that all forms of identities whether its name, race, color, religon etc is not mentioned in the discussions.
Hope no one takes my view point negatively here.
ComeOnDown
09-21-07, 00:11
Can I please get some feedback from the frequent visitors regarding the no visa entry into Argentina. I know that as a US citizen you can enter Argentina without a visa provided your stay does not exceed 90 days. Anything beyond 90 days should require a request for an extension of stay at the immigration office or an exit to another country to break the 90 days. Is this true?
Can I enter Argentina even if my plane ticket shows a return date beyond the 90 day limit. Are the immigration officers strict on this point.
Thank you in advance for any advise you can give me.
Jaimito Cartero
09-21-07, 03:47
Can I enter Argentina even if my plane ticket shows a return date beyond the 90 day limit. Are the immigration officers strict on this point.
Thank you in advance for any advise you can give me.I've never been asked to show a ticket departing Argentina. Unless you look like a dirtbag, I doubt you'll have any problems.
Thomaso276
09-21-07, 11:26
You can go to immigration for the extension or simply take a ferry to Uruguay for a day.
No one ever asked for return ticket upon arrival in BA.
Coming from Sydney once with LAN, they wouldn't let me board the plane as my return flight was more than 90 days from arrival. I had to buy a ticket in the airport to leave Argentina within the 90 day limit before they let me aboard. Not sure if that policy is general or just for that airline.
Coming from Sydney once with LAN, they wouldn't let me board the plane as my return flight was more than 90 days from arrival. I had to buy a ticket in the airport to leave Argentina within the 90 day limit before they let me aboard. Not sure if that policy is general or just for that airline.This is ridiculous as you could be visiting Latin America with Argentina as your entrance and departure point. You arrive in Argentina one day and get on a bus the next day and travel to Chile, Paraguay, Peru, Bolivia or wherever and six months later arrive back in Argentina and fly home. But, of course, airlines are known to be ridiculous!
Can I please get some feedback from the frequent visitors regarding the no visa entry into Argentina. I know that as a US citizen you can enter Argentina without a visa provided your stay does not exceed 90 days. Anything beyond 90 days should require a request for an extension of stay at the immigration office or an exit to another country to break the 90 days. Is this true?
Can I enter Argentina even if my plane ticket shows a return date beyond the 90 day limit. Are the immigration officers strict on this point.
Thank you in advance for any advise you can give me.Greetings ComeOnDown,
Apparently you are confused about the nomenclature here.
Every foreigner visiting Argentina must have a visa.
Visitors from some countries designated by Argentina must get a "visa in advance" at the Argentine embassy in their own country before they can travel to Argentina.
Visitors from other countries such as the USA will (almost always) receive a "visa on arrival", the visa being evidenced by the stamp in their passport.
The only people who have a "no visa entry" are Argentina citizens and residents as one does not need a visa to return to one's own country.
Anyway, nothing about your question has anything to do with the subject of this thread, which is "Resident visas", so I will be moving all of this discussion to the existing thead titled "Tourist Visa Information" at http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1919
FYI, there is also another thread titled "Penalty for overstaying 90 day visa" at http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4032 which also addresses your question.
Thanks,
Jackson
Since the thread hasn't been moved yet-
As people have noted, return tickets don't seem to be verified when entering Argentina.
But the airlines often verify that you have one when you check in for your departing flight to Argentina. They can get large fines for allowing someone to board who does not meet visa requirements of the destination country. Some years back I was not allowed (initially) to check-in for my flight from USA to BsAs since I had no return ticket.
Pretty simple solution though. Buy a fully refundable return e-ticket on the spot (probably easier calling reservations from your cell, which is what I did) and 5 minutes later your problem is fixed. Get on the flight and cancel return for full refund the next day.
Thomaso276
09-22-07, 10:58
On my last trip back in July 2007, the American Airlines check in guy said they no longer ask for a return ticket from the country you are flying to. Before I had my residence status I used to buy a refundable one way ticket from BA to Montevideo.
I never had any problem entering Argentina over the last 3 yrs or so. I always come in on a one way ticket, and always leave on a one way ticket, but there has not been one remark regarding this.
Thomaso276
09-26-07, 20:04
Found out this morning about a new system for those who need a antecedentes penal done here in BA.
While at Immigration. I saw a poster advising that you can now make an appointment for taking your fingerprints:
0800-666-055 Call between 8am and 1830
WWW.DNREC.JUS.GOV.AR
Also I have noticed alot of civil procedures needing a turno have the option of online appointments.
Anyone who has seen the lines for the 1300 block of Tucuman or at Immigraion may want to look into this.
By the way, the Immigration Antecedentes was not too bad. Got there at 630am, they open at 730 am. About 125 people waiting at 730 - but not all there for the same reasons.
After you enter go down the right side of the building to a small door at the end of the hall.
They give you the application then you have to go to the Banco Ciudad (a couple of blocks away, next door to Sheraton on N. Alem) to pay the fee. Problem is the bank doesn't open until 10am. Once you have paid at the bank walk back and they process your prints. Pick up varies on what fee you paid (1 day, 2 days or 5 days)
Remember to bring a copy of your passport or DNI, a copy kiosko is n the outside hall down from the bathrooms. 15 centavos per page.
When we went back at 10:15am there were not too many people waiting, unlike Tucuman which is a zoo.
Found.
When we went back at 10:15am there were not too many people waiting, unlike Tucuman which is a zoo.Thomaso,
Thanks for the information. I agree, Tucuman is a zoo in the morning. The few times I needed prints taken I went to Tucuman in the afternoon around 3:30 and there were no lines. At this hour I was able to fill out the form, pay at the bank inside Tucuman, get my prints taken and I was out of there in less than ten minutes.
Can confirm the report below. I phoned 0800-666-055 yesterday and they gave me a choice of appointments for this afternoon. Went down to Piedras 115, got a number, paid my 25.70$ at the desk next to the receptionist, waited two minutes, and my number came up. Showed them my passport and gave them a copy. A few questions (father's and mother's names) gave my prints on an electronic reader, read and signed the form. Asked to come back for the report in 7 days. In and out in less than 10 minutes, I couldn't believe I was in Argentina.
On Monday of this week I went to the Department of Immigration in Retiro to apply for my Residency and DNI. I got there at 8:00 AM and by 8:40 AM I was out of there with the Certificate of Residency (Certificado de Residencia Precaria) good for 90 days. I was told to return in 30 days to pickup the document giving me full residency. In the meanwhile I can use the temporary residency document to travel in and out of Argentina, etc.
I presented the following documents which were notarized by a notary and the apostille stamp attached in my country. The documents were translated into Spanish and legalized here in Buenos Aires:
1. Letter from my broker stating I was retired (I retired early) and withdrawing funds under the 72t regulations. It's important that the retirement letter clearly state the bank or broker will transfer monthly to an Argentinean bank US$XXXX to meet the residency requirement of the applicant having at least AR$2,000 monthly.
2. A criminal background check from the last place I spent the last five years. Make sure in all documents submitted, the name is exactly as it appears on your passport. They will reject the application if the name on the passport for example is John Doe Monger and your criminal background check name is John D. Monger. On all the documents the name should be exactly the same.
3. An official certificate of birth with the apostille stamp.
Other documents submitted without the apostille stamp:
4. Argentinean criminal background check (Certificado de Antecedentes Penales) This document can be done at Tucumán 1353 or by making a reservation by calling 0800-666-0055 or by making a reservation on line www.dnrec.jus.gov.ar. The wait time to electronically do your prints is minutes when you have a reservation. There are at least seven sites you can go to when you make a reservation by telephone or on line. The cost is between AR$50 and 25 pesos depending on how fast you want your report.
5. Two passport photos. This is a new requirement as of July of this year. The photos should be 4 by 4 (4 por 4) and be taken with the blue background.
6. A copy of your entire passport.
7. The last three withdrawal receipts or slips showing withdrawals made from an ATM. They sprung this on me the last minute and I just happen to have three withdrawal slips in my billfold. The amount or dates of the slips don't matter.
I was told by the person reviewing my application that the supervisor of the residency program is sympathetic and flexible. When she took the application to the supervisor she returned in less than two minutes stating all is fine with my application, except they would like to see three ATM withdrawal slips.
I also took with me copies of my Argentinean driving license, payments of utilities, bank statements from my local and international bank, escritura (I think a rental agreement, if you don't own an apartment, will help the application process) By the way, they were impressed with my having a local bank account without the DNI. However, none of these documents in the end were used by the immigration application reviewer.
A few reminders, make copies of all the original documents, and have ready to hand the AR$200 peso application fee. The fee is paid only if your application is accepted. Also, I used the translation services of Viviana Cortinez Tel. N° 4553-5559 e-mail vivcortinez@datamarkets.com.ar She came highly recommended by Thomaso a frequent knowledgeable poster regarding visas and residency requirements.
Suerte
AllIWantIsLove
10-05-07, 00:36
I thought you needed a DNI to open a bank account there. How did you get a bank account without a DNI? Also, were you able to transfer funds from a US bank account into your AR bank account? Did the exchange rate seem fair?
Thanks,
Bob
Thomaso276
10-05-07, 01:05
I believe you can open a savings account with a cuit or cuil (tax number that you also need to buy property) get it from AFIP.
Gentlemen,
I am about to get my Brazilian permanent resident visa.
Therefore, by being a permanent resident of Brazil, am I entitled to any benefits in Argentina due to the Mercosur alliance?
Thanks.
El Greco
All the info you need to get your Argentine residency is here:
http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/
or more specifically here for non Mercosure residents:
http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/migraciones/radicacion_e_mercosur.asp
and for Mercosur residents
http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/migraciones/radicacion_mercosur.asp
The address is:
Hipólito Irigoyen 952.
And the working hours is 07:30 to 13:30
Gentlemen,
I am about to get my Brazilian permanent resident visa.
Therefore, by being a permanent resident of Brazil, am I entitled to any benefits in Argentina due to the Mercosur alliance?
Thanks.
El GrecoYou will be able to travel on your Brasilian document within Mercosur without a passport (unless the destination country requires a visa for your nationality). There may be other benefits that I'm not aware of, possibly more to come as Mercosur solidifies.
Thank you very much.
El Greco
On Monday of this week I went to the Department of Immigration in Retiro to apply for my Residency and DNI. I got there at 8:00 AM and by 8:40 AM I was out of there with the Certificate of Residency (Certificado de Residencia Precaria) good for 90 days. I was told to return in 30 days to pickup the document giving me full residency. In the meanwhile I can use the temporary residency document to travel in and out of Argentina, etc.
I presented the following documents which were notarized by a notary and the apostille stamp attached in my country. The documents were translated into Spanish and legalized here in Buenos Aires:
1. Letter from my broker stating I was retired (I retired early) and withdrawing funds under the 72t regulations. It's important that the retirement letter clearly state the bank or broker will transfer monthly to an Argentinean bank US$XXXX to meet the residency requirement of the applicant having at least AR$2,000 monthly.
2. A criminal background check from the last place I spent the last five years. Make sure in all documents submitted, the name is exactly as it appears on your passport. They will reject the application if the name on the passport for example is John Doe Monger and your criminal background check name is John D. Monger. On all the documents the name should be exactly the same.
3. An official certificate of birth with the apostille stamp.
Other documents submitted without the apostille stamp:
4. Argentinean criminal background check (Certificado de Antecedentes Penales) This document can be done at Tucumán 1353 or by making a reservation by calling 0800-666-0055 or by making a reservation on line www.dnrec.jus.gov.ar. The wait time to electronically do your prints is minutes when you have a reservation. There are at least seven sites you can go to when you make a reservation by telephone or on line. The cost is between AR$50 and 25 pesos depending on how fast you want your report.
5. Two passport photos. This is a new requirement as of July of this year. The photos should be 4 by 4 (4 por 4) and be taken with the blue background.
6. A copy of your entire passport.
7. The last three withdrawal receipts or slips showing withdrawals made from an ATM. They sprung this on me the last minute and I just happen to have three withdrawal slips in my billfold. The amount or dates of the slips don't matter.
I was told by the person reviewing my application that the supervisor of the residency program is sympathetic and flexible. When she took the application to the supervisor she returned in less than two minutes stating all is fine with my application, except they would like to see three ATM withdrawal slips.
I also took with me copies of my Argentinean driving license, payments of utilities, bank statements from my local and international bank, escritura (I think a rental agreement, if you don't own an apartment, will help the application process) By the way, they were impressed with my having a local bank account without the DNI. However, none of these documents in the end were used by the immigration application reviewer.
A few reminders, make copies of all the original documents, and have ready to hand the AR$200 peso application fee. The fee is paid only if your application is accepted. Also, I used the translation services of Viviana Cortinez Tel. N° 4553-5559 e-mail vivcortinez@datamarkets. Com. Ar She came highly recommended by Thomaso a frequent knowledgeable poster regarding visas and residency requirements.
SuerteJust a follow-up on my residency application. My residency document was ready to be picked up by me 17 days after they had given me a 90 day residency certificate (this certificate was given to me on the same day I submitted and the department of immigration accepted my application)
I was instructed to go to the Registro Nacional de las Personas located on calle 25 De Mayo 155 in order to get the DNI. Also, I was instructed to have the following original documents in order to apply for the DNI:
1. Original birth certificate with the apostille stamp translated into the spanish and legalized (this is the same document I needed for my residency application)
2. The certificate of residency issued by the Department of Immigration.
3. Original Certificado de Domicilio issued by my local police station. Make sure the Certificado is not more than 90 day old.
When I got to 25 De Mayo (located in Centro near La Casa Rosada) and after waiting about two hours, I was told my papers were in order and they gave me a date late in November to actually apply for the DNI. The governermental internet site states they will issue the DNI in 15 days after submitting the application. However, I was told it might take anywhere from 2 to 4 months to issue the DNI because they are drowning in paperwork from the more than 1 million Mercosur citizens seeking residency in Argentina. This is astounding because they had estimated that there were only 400,000 illegal Mercosur residents in Argentina.
By the way, it appears they treat Europeans and North Americans differently than Mercosur applicants for residency in Argentina. For a Mercosur citizen it takes up to two years and different cumbersome phases to get residency. They gave me temporary residency status the same day they accepted my application and residency 17 days later. Also, whereas for North Americans and Europeans the application for residency is always open, it's not the case for Mercosur citizens. Argentina at times shuts down the application for residency for Mercosur residents. Just an interesting side note, the Constitution of Argentina states that Argentina prefers immigration from european countries.
Suerte
Facundo, no offense BUT:
You might want to research your post a little bit more before you misinform others. And to do so you might want to read these two links.
http://www.patriagrande.gov.ar/html/home.htm
http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/migraciones/radicacion_mercosur.asp
I personally have three different passports, a US passport, a European Passport and a Mercosur passport. I initially contacted AFN Visas, they supposedly know everything there is to know about Argentina Visas and surprise surprise. They told me the easiest way to get an Argentine residency was through my Mercosur Passport. I initially wanted to use my US passport, but I was told unless I was a retiree with a proven pension, I would be run through loops to get my visa and in the end I could be denied.
Do you know what the requirements for a Mercosur citizen is for a residency ?
A) My DNI or Passport
B) My Passport or last entry slip
C) Criminal record for the last 5 years.
D) Criminal record for Argentina.
That's it.
I received my 90 day temporary that same day and within a month I had my 2 year residency. After two years it becomes permanent. Total cost 250 pesos.
It seems you are running on old data. Mercosur has in the past 2 years done it's best to normalize and streamline immigration between countries and minimize the visa requirements and although it might cause some paperwork delays, it is working. Argentina, in particular has been very proactive about legalizing all Mercosur immigrants (about 70% of which are from Paraguay) that is WHY you see hundreds of thousands of legal Mercosur residents. But to be honest Mercosur is becoming old news UNASUR is the next phase. You should read up on it, it is actually quite interesting. A full Union should be agreed upon by their next meeting in January 2008, at which time residency Visas might not even be needed anymore. A full economic union should happen around 2019. Here is a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_South_American_Nations
A- Identidad: la identidad se acredita con el Pasaporte, Cédula de Identidad o Certificado de Nacionalidad VIGENTES.
Be- Ultimo Ingreso al país: Se acredita mediante el sello estampado por la autoridad migratoria en el Pasaporte o Tarjeta de Ingreso correspondiente, o bien mediante Certificado de Ingreso extendido por el Area Certificaciones de la DNM (Hipólito Yrigoyen 952, CABA) o bien mediante declaración jurada.
C- Certificado de antecedentes penales del país de origen o del lugar donde hubiere residido los últimos 5 años anteriores a su arribo (sólo para los que hubieren ingresado al país siendo mayores de 16 años)
D- Certificado de antecedentes de la Policía Federal Argentina o del Registro Nacional de Reincidencia (sólo para mayores de 18 años): se tramita en el Edificio Nº 4 de la DNM en el horario de 9 a 12, o en la calle Azopardo 620 (Policía Federal Argentina) o Tucumán 1353 (Registro Nacional de Reincidencia) ambos en la Ciudad de Buenos Aires. The one thing you are correct about is that they prefer retired immigrants with pensions sufficient enough to meet their 1000 dollar minimum pention requirements. Younger residents from Mercosur most likely won't come with 1000 dollar pensions, but they will come to work, and in a sense (like in the USA) the labor is needed by the local economy, but it also adds some pressure to the local laborers as well. No one likes a cheaper work force, well at least the lower and middle class don't. The wealthy love it. They love hiring Paraguayans (the majority of immigrants) and Bolivians (a lesser but still substantial minority of immigrants) for menial labor. There are also a high number of middle class professionals that immigrate here to work, though the salaries are comparable in their home country (must either be the Argentine beef or the Argentine ass that keeps them coming:D)
But just to let you know, I know many Americans here who are finding it VERY difficult to find a Visa they qualify for (I am talking about young Americans 20's-30's) But a universal fact is " IT IS HARD MOVING ANYWHERE WHEN YOU ARE POOR AND OR YOUNG, NO ONE WANTS YOU ". But if you are old and have a pension or young and have lot's of money EVERYONE wants you;)
Boss man,
May I suggest you speak directely with immigration, the consulate of Paraguay, and the numerous sites in Boca, Villa Lugano, etc. who are processing the hundreds of thousands of applications from Mercosur residents and see how long it has taken them to process residency applications. The majority of applicants were given the precaria well over a year and a half ago and now they are beginning to issue the two year residency letters. Also, they are overwhelmed with applicants who are in this country illegally. How do I know this. I am a volunteer, I help some of these poor people who do not have visas and who entered this country illegally. I talk to the folks at immigaration and the paraguayan counsel weekly. We already know, if one has money and can demonstrate they can live here without working it's easy to get residency. All the Bolivians, Paraguayans, etc. I help, need my help in getting the Certificado de Pobrezza because they can't afford the 200 peso application fee. I agree, Argentina needs workers, the majority of these people can't say they are here to retire. If they had money, they would stay in their own country and live like kings and queens. Boss man, you are talking about a small group of applicants, I'm talking about the almost one million mercosur residents who are filing for residency.
Boss man no offense, but I would like to suggest you go to the Immigration office and speak to the folks of Patria Grande and see what you learn.
Facundo, no offense BUT:
You might want to research your post a little bit more before you misinform others. And to do so you might want to read these two links.
http://www.patriagrande.gov.ar/html/home.htm
http://www.mininterior.gov.ar/migraciones/radicacion_mercosur.asp
I personally have three different passports, a US passport, a European Passport and a Mercosur passport. I initially contacted AFN Visas, they supposedly know everything there is to know about Argentina Visas and surprise surprise. The told me the easiest way to get an Argentine residency was through my Mercosur Passport. I initially wanted to use my US passport, but I was told unless I was a retiree with a proven pension, I would be run through loops to get my visa and in the end I could be denied.
Do you know what the requirements for a Mercosur citizen are for a residency ?
A) My DNI or Passport
B) My Passport or last entry slip
C) Criminal record for the last 5 years.
D) Criminal record for Argentina.
That's it.
I received my 90 day temporary that day day and within a month I had my 2 year residency. After two years it becomes permanent. Total cost 250 pesos.
It seems you are running on old data. Mercosur has in the past 2 years done it's best to normalize and streamline immigration between countries and minimize the visa requirements and although it might cause some paperwork delays, it is working. Argentina, in particular has been very proactive about legalizing all Mercosur immigrants ( about 70% of which are from Paraguay ) that is WHY you see hundreds of thousands of legal Mercosur residents. But to be honest Mercosur is becoming old news UNASUR is the next phase. You should read up on it, it is actually quite interesting. A full Union should be agreed upon by their next meeting in January 2008, at which time residency Visas might not even be needed anymore. A full economic union should happen around 2019. Here is a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_South_American_Nations
The one thing you are correct about is that they prefer retired immigrants with pensions sufficient enough to meet their 1000 dollar minimum pention requirements. Younger residents from Mercosur most likely won't come with 1000 dollar pensions, but they will come to work, and in a sense (like in the USA) the labor is needed by the local economy, but it also adds some pressure to the local laborers as well. No one likes a cheaper work force, well at least the lower and middle class don't. The wealthy love it. They love hiring Paraguayans (the majority of immigrants) and Bolivians (a lesser but still substantial minority of immigrants) for menial labor. There are also a high number of middle class professionals that immigrate here to work, though the salaries are comparable in their home country (must either be the Argentine beef or the Argentine ass that keeps them coming:D)
But just to let you know, I know many Americans here who are finding it VERY difficult to find a Visa the qualify for (I am talking about young Americans 20's-30's) But a universal fact is " IT IS HARD MOVING ANYWHERE WHEN YOU ARE POOR AND OR YOUNG, NO ONE WANTS YOU ". But if you are old and have a pension or young and have lot's of money EVERYONE wants you;)
You win Facundo,
It is obvious that we are talking apples and oranges. I was simply stating that in a case where comparable persons (as in the same financial status, since they don't want poor Americans or Euros who can't prove sufficient income or pension either) from the EU US or Mercosur were applying for residency, preference would be given to the Mercosur citizen because of the whole regional integration accords and Argentina's very own liberal immigration laws.
You are speaking specifically about the majority poor that come here in the hundreds of thousands, and to be honest I don't have any idea how it works out for them. But the only good thing I hear you saying is that the government still issues them the precaria it just takes them a year to wade through all the paperwork of hundreds of thousands of application as opposed to the tens of thousands from other countries. It makes sense: ten times as many applications equals ten times the waiting period, but I do hope they speed things up.
Cheers and thanks for volunteering, Argentina needs more people like you.
It seems like only yesterday I was lying in a hotel in downtown, crime infested Santiago de Chile waiting for the Argentina consulate to make the final stamps on my paperwork so I could return to Argentina WITH my empresario visa.
These visas are probably easier to acquire if you're part of a big company in the US, interested in investigating or starting a business in Argentina, that can easily provide the documentation they want. My US company being a sole proprietorship required business and personal documentation and it drug out over a year. I'm happy to answer questions by e-mail if you're interested.
Fortunately renewing the visa is a lot easier, although it renews year to year and they said there's no permanent visa after several renewals.
The section for renewal is Prorrogas, a quiet section in the second main room of Immigraciones, turning left from the entranceway.
They required two forms that require a legal entity here to verify:
- a legal statement from an Argentine accountant regards the earnings of the company (which was simply a monthly tally of income)
- a legal statement about the structure of the company (partners and percentages)
- proof of payment of Argentine taxes, last six monthly payments. (Monotributo monthly payments and printed out receipt of each online payment)
- copies of the last entry stamp in passport and copy of the photo page of passport.
- 200 pesos.
- passport for entering the new visa stamp.
Once you've received the new visa stamp you can go to the office on 25 de Mayo betweeen 7 am and 10 am with your passport, a copy of the passport photo page, a copy of the passport visa page and your DNI and there's a little area in the Extranjero DNI where they date and sign the DNI renewal (allegedly a quick process - I'll find out tomorrow morning)
Piece of piss compared to the first time. Hope this helps someone.
I recently got a rentista visa. My experience was similar to that reported by Penguin on 08-08-06 in this thread.
Because it has been a couple of years since his report and there were some minor differences in the way things went for me, I thought I would mention them. Maybe they can help someone.
I went to the same consulate. The consulate you deal with depends on which state you live in. I did this entirely on my own. The documents that are required, you have to get on your own, anyway. The consulate can answer any questions about what is needed.
Getting the instructions for the visa from the consulate took 2 weeks from when I first called them. I even went there to ask for them. I was always told that they would email them to me tomorrow.
They wanted a police record check from the FBI, only. The FBI website explains what you have to do to get one.
The visa instructions said that the visa application form and the affidavit form were available from the consulate website. At the time I did this, in August, they weren't. I got the forms from the Argentine Embassy website. But when I was at the consulate to present my papers to them, they had me fill out forms that they had, which were slightly different from the ones that I got online.
I got an income letter from my broker. It was difficult to get them to understand exactly what it was I needed and some way they could say it without committing themselves to anything. It ended up not saying what the consulate wanted. After giving me a bad time about this for a while at the consulate, they accepted it.
The translation service cost me US 20 cents per word. That included notarization. Apostille for me was U$S 15 per document.
I had to get a prepaid shipping envelope, FEDEX for example, so they could send me my visa. I received it the following week. The Labor Day holiday slowed things down.
Here, I took the 2nd envelope to the Registro Nacional de las Personas, in 25 de Mayo 155. Since I didn't know what the hours were there, I went between 9:00 and 10:00. There were long lines outside. I showed the envelope to the guard and was let in. I showed it again to the guard inside and was sent to a counter that goes across the back. There is a sign on a column behind the counter near the right hand side of it, "sobres consulares".
That's where you wait for someone to notice you.
Someone looked at my visa and opened the envelope and looked at my birth certificate. It had been translated, but I was told that it had to be translated here and certified by the Colegio de Traductores Publicos. They have a website, www.traductores.org.ar where you can find a translator. The translation cost me A$R 150 plus A$R 30 for the certification.
I was told to come back between 6:00 and 9:00 A.M. Mon-Fri, with the new translation, to get an appointment to present my papers to get a DNI.
I recommend going early. I got there around 7:00. There wasn't any line outside. There was a long line inside. It took almost 2 1/2 hours to get to talk to someone.
They looked at what I had and told me to also bring a copy of my passport and a Certificado de Domicilio to my appointment. There was never any mention of the envelope that I gave to immigration at Ezeiza.
I was there on October 17. The appointment I got to present my papers for a DNI is for August 3, 2009!
I recently got a rentista visa. My experience was similar to that reported by Penguin on 08-08-06 in this thread.
Because it has been a couple of years since his report and there were some minor differences in the way things went for me, I thought I would mention them. Maybe they can help someone.
I went to the same consulate. The consulate you deal with depends on which state you live in. I did this entirely on my own. The documents that are required, you have to get on your own, anyway. The consulate can answer any questions about what is needed.
Getting the instructions for the visa from the consulate took 2 weeks from when I first called them. I even went there to ask for them. I was always told that they would email them to me tomorrow.
They wanted a police record check from the FBI, only. The FBI website explains what you have to do to get one.
The visa instructions said that the visa application form and the affidavit form were available from the consulate website. At the time I did this, in August, they weren't. I got the forms from the Argentine Embassy website. But when I was at the consulate to present my papers to them, they had me fill out forms that they had, which were slightly different from the ones that I got online.
I got an income letter from my broker. It was difficult to get them to understand exactly what it was I needed and some way they could say it without committing themselves to anything. It ended up not saying what the consulate wanted. After giving me a bad time about this for a while at the consulate, they accepted it.
The translation service cost me US 20 cents per word. That included notarization. Apostille for me was U$S 15 per document.
I had to get a prepaid shipping envelope, FEDEX for example, so they could send me my visa. I received it the following week. The Labor Day holiday slowed things down.
Here, I took the 2nd envelope to the Registro Nacional de las Personas, in 25 de Mayo 155. Since I didn't know what the hours were there, I went between 9:00 and 10:00. There were long lines outside. I showed the envelope to the guard and was let in. I showed it again to the guard inside and was sent to a counter that goes across the back. There is a sign on a column behind the counter near the right hand side of it, "sobres consulares".
That's where you wait for someone to notice you.
Someone looked at my visa and opened the envelope and looked at my birth certificate. It had been translated, but I was told that it had to be translated here and certified by the Colegio de Traductores Publicos. They have a website, www.traductores.org.ar where you can find a translator. The translation cost me A$R 150 plus A$R 30 for the certification.
I was told to come back between 6:00 and 9:00 A. M. Mon-Fri, with the new translation, to get an appointment to present my papers to get a DNI.
I recommend going early. I got there around 7:00. There wasn't any line outside. There was a long line inside. It took almost 2 1/2 hours to get to talk to someone.
They looked at what I had and told me to also bring a copy of my passport and a Certificado de Domicilio to my appointment. There was never any mention of the envelope that I gave to immigration at Ezeiza.
I was there on October 17. The appointment I got to present my papers for a DNI is for August 3, 2009!Airplane,
Congratulations on getting this far along on your way to getting the DNI. The date they gave you, since it's very specific, is only to submit your documents. After they accept your documents they will tell you to return in 6 months for the DNI. Of course, if they see any problems with your documents it will delay the process another six months.
They are so overwhelmed with Mercosur applications for residency / DNI that they cannot process them quickly (the system is overwhelmed, this year they have processed, if I'm to believe them, 600,000 aplications for DNIs)
I got lucky with my application for the DNI. When they gave me residency in October of 2007, I had to wait only 30 days to submit my application for the DNI. However, it took about seven months to receive my DNI. I believe I got the DNI after 7 months because I got know a few people at 25 de mayo and pushed hard for them to speed the process up.
Suerte
My experience here in MarDel is that Mondays are not good days to go to government offices. Oddly, the Tuesday after a national holiday Monday has been good with short / no lines and quick, cheerful service.
My best experiences have been when going to government offices Tuesday thru Thursday between the hours of 1230 and 1330. My guess is that people who are trying to get their business done before going to work are causing lines out the door and down the block during morning hours after opening.
Suerte
Thomaso276
02-19-09, 16:20
My DNI renews in early May so I thought I would get the AP from Immigration earlyt to avoid the Chinese rush sure to follow. You can get the AP from Immigration (behind the Sheraton) for use only with Immigration issues (this limits the lines) avoiding the nightmare of Tucuman where thousands go for clearance for work issues.
Anyhow, webpage says 730 am to 130 pm. Got there at around 8am Tues and there was a short line in the big open air hallway (the line is marked Policia / Informes along the left wall as you approach the building, hallway) ignore the other two lines. Never go on Mondays.
Get inside in about ten minutes and the lady says they are not giving out any more applications - that means they maxed out in 30 minutes. Apparently it is vacation time so they have only two people working, so they probably give out about 50 apps every morning and then they have to fingerprint those folks all before 1-130 pm.
Went back this morning at 6:20 am - number 10 in line. When they opened at 730 there were probably 50-60 people in line. You shuffle in select your service (2 days or one week) and price (40 pesos for two day turnaround) they give you the form and you leave to go to Banco Ciudad on N Alem address is on the form, just a couple of blocks away.
Banks don't open till 10 am so you have time to kill. I live nearby so I went home, returned to the bank at 9:45, about 50 people waiting in line. The bank has several tellers dedicated to taking this fee. Pretty quick.
Take paperwork back to Immigration and get prints taken electronically. I noticed there is a sign on the table that no more apps are given out today. I don;t know when they put it up but I would guess around 8 or 830. They hit their limit quickly. One guy taking prints while another women is processing apps, confirming they are accurate. Seems to me the group I was in had all been there around 630-7. Some folks that had been in line after 7 or so were not present for prints or at the bank.
Remember to bring a copy of your DNI (personal info pages) and or passport (I had both) AP is good for three months according to webpage and the lady did ask to see the dates on my DNI apparently ensuring that I would not have done this in vain - remember I am there a couple of months before my renewal but the AP should be good till around May 20th.
Bring a pen as they don't sell any in the area. And the nearest copy place is in Retiro Bus Area.
Thomaso276
04-21-09, 15:06
There is a new system for the final renewal. It is a little more complicated than before but is explained on the web page for immigration. No more showing up, must call this number (5222-7177) to make an appt. I called this morning, phones were quickly attended, asked for an english speaker and got appt. For May 20
Sr. Extranjero a partir del día 03/04/2009 para solicitar su residencia en nuestro país why / o cambiar la categoría de la misma, deberá sacar turno para su atención en el horario de 8 a 16 Hs. Llamando al 5222-7117 (líneas rotativas) Este número NO es para informes. A tal efecto comunicarse con el 0800-333-728742 o 4317-0234 al 0238.
A PARTIR DEL 06/04/09 NO SE OTORGAN MAS NUMEROS EN ESTA SEDE CENTRAL.
Look in this page http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/ for the tab about decreto 1169 which is the special program they had that most of us used. Extra Mercusor.
• UD. PODRÁ PRESENTARSE, DESDE UN MES ANTES DEL VENCIMIENTO DE SU RESIDENCIA TEMPORARIA, A FIN DE ADJUNTAR LA SIGUIENTE DOCUMENTACIÓN, CONFORME EL ART. 11 DEL DECRETO 1169/04:
1- CERTIFICADO DE ANTECEDENTES PENALES ARGENTINOS ACTUALIZADOS.
2- ACREDITACIÓN DE MEDIOS LICITOS DE VIDA, SEGÚN LA ACTIVIDAD QUE USTED DESARROLLA, CUYOS REQUISITOS SE DETALLAN A CONTINUACIÓN:
A- Si Ud. Es Trabajador en relación de dependencia deberá presentar: Certificación de servicio en original suscripta por las partes ante Escribano Público o agente migratorio al inicio de la solicitud de cambio de categoría, en la que deben figurar, del empleador, nombre why apellido o razón social, Nº de CUIT, domicilio why teléfono why, del empleado, nombre why apellido, Nº de CUIL, fecha de ingreso, tarea desarrollada why remuneración bruta. Último recibo de sueldo suscripto por el empleador.
Be- Si Ud. Es Monotributista deberá presentar: Copia certificada de la constancia de inscripción como monotributista why recibos de pago correspondientes al último ejercicio fiscal.
C- Si Ud. Es Responsable Inscripto ante el IVA deberá presentar: Copia certificada de la Declaración Jurada de Impuesto a las Ganancias correspondiente al último ejercicio fiscal why del comprobante de pago de dicho impuesto. Copia certificada de la presentación ante la AFIP de la posición del IVA why liquidación mensual del mismo. Copia certificada del comprobante de pago de aportes al régimen autónomos u otros regímenes especiales.
D- Si Ud. Es Jubilado o Pensionado deberá presentar: Último recibo original de haberes o copia debidamente certificada. Si estuviera expedido en el extranjero deberá contar con su correspondiente traducción, si la necesitase why legalización efectuada en Argentina por Traductor Público Nacional, why legalización ante el Consulado Argentino o Apostille.
E- Si Ud. Esta casado / a why no se encuentra comprendido en los puntos a, be, c o d deberá presentar: Documentación que acredite su matrimonio, con las legalizaciones why traducciones necesarias why la acreditación de alguno de los puntos anteriores por parte de su cónyuge.
3- ACREDITACIÓN DE IDENTIDAD CON DOCUMENTACIÓN VIGENTE.
• SE LE OTORGARÁ UN COMPROBANTE DE LA DOCUMENTACIÓN PRESENTADA (SIEMPRE QUE ESTA ESTUVIERA COMPLETA) JUNTO CON EL PAGO DE LA TASA CORRESPONDIENTE why SE LE ASIGNARÁ UNA FECHA DE PRESENTACIÓN (ANTERIOR AL VENCIMIENTO DE SU RESIDENCIA TEMPORARIA) A FIN DE RETIRAR, SI CORRESPONDIESE, LA DISPOSICIÓN DE SU RESIDENCIA PERMANENTE.
• EL TRÁMITE ES PERSONAL why NO NECESITA LA INTERVENCIÓN DE TERCEROS.
• LA DOCUMENTACIÓN PRECITADA TIENE UNA VALIDEZ DE 60 (SESENTA) DÍAS CORRIDOS DESDE SU FECHA DE EMISIÓN.
4- TASA: $600
Copy and paste to free translation.com for english.
Looks like they have reverted to the basic requirements for residence: job, business, pension or marriage. They want some docs translated and appostilled from the States. Spoke to a girl their this morning and she said these basics will preclude many foreigners who got in the program from getting permanent residence. She said many Chinese will not be able to qualify (work off the books, no pension, not married to argie)
Yesterday, I went down to the US embassy to get a document from the US. Social Security department that states I receive a monthly check of $xxx as a pension payment, and this payment is paid for the remainder of my life.
I need this to qualify as a "Jubilado" or retiree under the new changes to the Residency program decreed by the fickle Argie government.
The embassy Soc. Security office has a link to the office in the US and can get direct access to all records housed in Washington. After a wait of 10 minutes, this document was produced and signed by an Embassy official. It was also entirely in Espanol which saved translation costs and hassels.
I was given an instruction sheet in English that directed me to go to 819 Arenales / Esmeralda, This a huge building called the Chancerly (sp? And in the basement, they issue Apostillas (a certification for documents) which make the documents certified usable for requirements of the Arg. Government.
The wait lines moved along and after paying 52 pesos, I waited in another line to present the paper. I was instructed to return in an hour to pick up the apostilla attached to the Soc Sec document.
Good to their word, I picked up the docs all stamped together. This should satisfy the immigration folks I am a retiree and fulfill the income requirements to qualify for residency.
Now I wait to May 20th to present the residency package to Immigration.
(Soc Sec rept. Criminal history in Argentina, DNI card)
This process shows apostillas can be obtained here for docs originated in Arg.
Docs from the USA must be done in the USA, so you cannot bring stateside stuff here and get it certified.
Hope this helps those in the residency Chase.
Jackpot
Hi Jackpot,
Presently I am too young to collect social security payments, as a Jubilado, and when I get them the amount will be small indeed. But one is aware that the minimum amount of a Retiree from outside Argentina, to qualify for residency thus, is or was $2000 pesos.
Was a minimum required from you to obtain a DNI as Jubilado, and how do they wish to see the evidence? Any further info about the current qualifications, etc. As aforementioned above, for DNI as Rentinsta?
Many thanks,
Bodhi
When I received my DNI, nothing was mentioned about income or pension funding or amounts. The income information documents are detailed in my original explanation.
Sorry, but I don't have a clue about being a rentista.
Best you go to Immigration and get answers at the source.
Good Luck,
Jackpot
This is some further information about my experience getting a visa and DNI. It might give someone waiting to present their papers to get a DNI an idea of what to expect. My first post about this was on 10-26-08. Maybe this should be in the DNI thread.
This is about the day of my appointment, 8-3-09, to present my papers for a DNI.
The appointment was for between 10:00 and 11:00. I got there at 09:30. I was told to get in the line that went to the corner of Peron, from there to Alem and from there halfway down that block. It took 2 1/2 hours to get back to the front door.
There were people, who for a fee, would move you up in the line. Someone in line told me they were asked for A$R 80 to do this. There were also people offering to take the required photos for you for A$R 30-45. The fee inside the building for photos is A$R 5.
They give you a number when you enter the building. You go to an area on the right where many others are waiting. Supposedly, they will call this number when they want to see you to verify if you have all of the required papers. My experience from when I made the appointment, and this day, is that they just take whoever is next in line and the numbers are mostly not used.
If you have the required papers, they give you another number. You then wait in the same area for this number to be called. They do call these new numbers, in groups of 20-25.
One of the required papers is a certificado de domicilio that you get from the police. I didn't have time to get one, so I gave them a bill I get from my health insurance. They will also take utility bills in your name and with an Argentina address.
When this second number is called you go downstairs and wait some more. They call your number here and you get in a line to see someone who will make some entries in a computer.
After that you wait to get a paper at one side of the cashier area. When you get this paper you give it to the cashier and pay the A$R 15 fee for the DNI at the other side of the cashier area.
If you need a photo, go to the photo area and pay A$R 5 for 2 photos.
You then wait for them to call your name to take your fingerprints. You give a photo and your papers to this person. After that, you're finished.
They give you some papers with instructions on what to do when you return in 6 months to pick up the document.
The total time I was there was 7 hours. The total time I actually did something with the 5 people who I had to see, was probably at most 20 minutes.
Banana Rep
08-06-09, 10:27
Well things have not changed in 20 years. When I lived in Argentina, (where I am originally from) to get a passport was a similar ordeal.
You had to go to the central police department, where long lines formed, and you would spend more than half a day to complete the required paperwork.
Of course there was always the recourse of paying somebody, a "connected" person, which is what I did (well actually my company did) and get the paperwork done in less than an hour.
It was fun to walk past the lines accompanied by this person, who would talk briefly to the policeman controlling the access, and get to go to the next stage in the process.
Well things have not changed in 20 years. When I lived in Argentina, (where I am originally from) to get a passport was a similar ordeal.
You had to go to the central police department, where long lines formed, and you would spend more than half a day to complete the required paperwork.
Of course there was always the recourse of paying somebody, a "connected" person, which is what I did (well actually my company did) and get the paperwork done in less than an hour.
It was fun to walk past the lines accompanied by this person, who would talk briefly to the policeman controlling the access, and get to go to the next stage in the process.It's still exactly the same. My company hires an attorney to renew my visa / dni every year. Basically that entails submitting a bunch of paper work related to taxes, etc. Of the company and hiring someone to push me through the lines at Migraciones and the DNI office.
I found out that they pay around 800 U$D for this. Glad it ain't me.
Thomaso276
08-07-09, 21:13
Argie passport is now about a two hour ordeal for the whole process. Recently helped someone get one and it was delivered in 2 weeks!
Yesterday I sent my passport (USA) to be renewed. Supposedly it is a two week process and it expires end of year.
You order DHL to pick up your passport, photos, application, creditcard permission to pay new passport fee and deliver to the embassy in Bunos aires.
You wait two week they advises and you agree for DHL to deliver to address you declare and they deliver.
Total cost (two 50 peso dhls+ 75 U$S new passport fee + 2 photos 30 Pesos)
About 110 dollars and never once line or leave my house.
So now I will see how it really works.
I renewed my rentista visa on October 14. I hope some of the information about my experience can be of use to someone.
I made this a lot more difficult than it should have been, because I didn't pay attention to the instructions on the migraciones website: http://www.migraciones.gov.ar . Since I didn't, it meant that I had to have papers sent to me from the USA and that caused all kinds of problems and delays.
To get to the renewal instructions on the above page, click on “Requisitos para Residencias” in the column on the left side. At the top of the area of the page that then comes up, click on “Radicaciones No-Mercosur”. Then, at the top of the area of the next page that comes up, click on “Prórrogas”. There is no direct link to these pages, you have to get to them through these menus.
My situation regarding the instruction “Certificación del banco donde recibe su renta...” is different than this. I don't have a bank account here. In any bank, anywhere, I don't receive any “renta,” in other words income. What I did for this was to show some papers that have the amount of money I got from the sale of a house on them, to show a source of my funds. For “renta,” I showed receipts from when I took money out of ATMs here, for the last year. Migraciones had no problem with this, but asked for a letter from a bank saying that I had some amount of money in an account there and that I could withdraw this money. This was to show that I currently had money available.
For the “Antecedentes de Policía Federal Argentina...” I went to the website for the “Registro Nacional de Residencia” at: http://www.dnrec.jus.gov.ar to make an appointment to get this document. The appointment from this website is for their location at Piedras 115. On the page that comes up when you click on "Reserva Su Turno Por Internet", you can pick a date on the calendar and it will then show you the number of places available for a given time on that date. When you finish this, you can print out a page with your appointment number on it.
There will most likely be the usual appointment chaos when you arrive. You present your paper to the receptionist and are given another number. I don't remember whether or not they gave me a number for the cashier and another for my appointment. After you pay, you wait for your number to appear on one of the screens on the wall.
The person I saw looked at what I filled in on the web page and didn't have any questions. I was given a paper to bring back with me when I came to pick up the document. You can have anyone pick it up.
The "Prórrogas" instructions also mention "Documento Nacional de Identidad" as one of the requirements. I don't have one, yet. This didn't matter.
I went to the "Sede Central" of migraciones at Av. Antártida Argentina 1355. It opens at 07:30.
I got there at around 07:00 once and around 06:30 another time. There was already a long line both times. Almost all of those people are there for other things, so you won't be delayed much. Security will ask you what you are there for. This line gets divided up a bit before 07:30. One line, for people who have appointments, goes in one door.
Since I was there for a "prórroga de permanencia" I went in the other line. You go to a counter in the middle of the building to get a number. You then go to the prórroga de permanencia area and wait for them to call your number. When I was there, this area, unlike many of the others in the building didn't have a screen that showed what number they were serving.
My visa expired on Sept. 16. Due to delays in getting papers, I went to migraciones on Sept. 15. Because I made an appointment that I shouldn't have and it was too late in the day to do anything in the prórrogas area, I had to come back the next day. They told me that even though my visa would expire that day, that I had 30 days more to renew it.
When I was there the following day, they asked for the letter from a bank. I was told again that I had 30 days more to take care of this.
I had to ask 2 banks for this letter. One bank screwed around with my request for 2 weeks, before telling me they wouldn't notarize the letter. It finally got here on Oct. 9. I picked it up from the translator on the 13th and went back to migraciones on the 14th. There wasn't any problem with the papers, but the person I saw at that time told me that my visa had expired and therefore I couldn't renew it. She eventually went and talked to someone else about it and I got the renewal.
Some important things to remember are that any papers that come from abroad have to have either an apostille or certification from that country. If they aren't in Spanish, they have to get a certified translation here. Make copies of any papers, including passport, that you are going to show migraciones. They don't have to be certified copies. In my case, migraciones kept the copies and gave me back the originals. The only original they kept was the antecedentes paper.
Member #3320
11-14-09, 08:48
I don't have a bank account here. In any bank, anywhere, I don't receive any "renta," in other words income. What I did for this was to show some papers that have the amount of money I got from the sale of a house on them, to show a source of my funds. For "renta," I showed receipts from when I took money out of ATMs here, for the last year. Migraciones had no problem with this, but asked for a letter from a bank saying that I had some amount of money in an account there and that I could withdraw this money. This was to show that I currently had money available.Nice Report. Thanks. So does this mean that you were eligible for Rentista visa without having a "passive income"? That means just show them lot of money in your home account and ATM withdrawal receipts in BA and they are satisfied?
It is very interesting indeed.
Most of the lawyers in BA talk about passive / steady / monthly income for being eligible for "rentista" visa.
So does this mean that you were eligible for Rentista visa without having a "passive income"? That means just show them lot of money in your home account and ATM withdrawal receipts in BA and they are satisfied?Not exactly.
The income requirement was more complicated than this for me, the first time I applied for this type of visa at the consulate, one year ago. Although I don't say much about the income requirement in it, see my report in this thread from 10-26-08, for some more details.
Here is some more information about that time at the consulate, as well as I can remember it. I haven't had a regular income for a long time. The broker wrote me a letter that said they would mail a check, to my USA address, that was equal to the amount of income required for this visa for one year. The letter, in this case, was useless. The consulate wanted something from me that would say that there would be a monthly transfer of funds. They eventually got around to, even if it was to another bank in the USA, because I told them that I could not open a bank account in Argentina. The person I talked to pushed pretty hard for this. I told them that I use ATMs to get my money and that if for some reason I couldn't get the money from the ATMs, that it is possible to wire up to U$S 5,000 per month to myself for use as tourist expenses. After the person went and talked to someone else about this, they agreed to let me have the visa.
At that meeting with the consulate, we never talked about having any quantity of money in an account. It was all about some kind of regular transfer of funds.
I don't think that this is a very good answer to your question, but it is the way things went for me that first time. I'm sure a lot of what might be required for anyone else, will depend on the people they talk to at the particular consulate that they would have to go to.
For the renewal, it was my idea to show the papers about the quantity of money, in case they might have asked where did I get that money that I was taking out of ATMs. Whether or not I actually would have needed to do something like that, I don't know.
The people who lap it up don't realize they are being screwed because the government does such a good job of pushing the idea of the "evil" US and older "colonial powers". These powers are doing everything they can to hold back the people in Latin America and if it wasn't for these evil pricks, by damn, every government policy put into place would work!
Peron was a fascist, who studied at Mussolini's side. By definition, anyone who is a Peronist is a fascist as well, albeit in this day and age, maybe not as fierce as Peron was able to be in his time (s)
This fascist outlook explains completely why Kirchner wanted Shell to bend to his will and sell at a loss - this is the kind of things that fascists do. It also should tell people to keep investments to a bare minimum in places like Argentina.
On a bit of a side note, I have heard that migraciones is starting to crack down quite a bit on the tourist visa thing. I have heard of some US ex-pats being warned when returning to BA from Colonia that they had better get residency because soon they will not be able to cross the border like they have been to renew the 90 visa. I've heard of US ex-pats being denied outright a visa extension in migraciones here in BA.
I'm going through the residency process now, and here's a direct quote from my lawyer on a query about the possibility of having problems as an American:
"...this country is not being nice to Americans. They have implemented the reciprocity visa of USD 131 and most americans are being told at the border that they will not be allowed to re enter if they keep using tourist visas."
The US is the scapegoat of South America, and as things get worse here in Argentina, it could be more difficult for US citizens to come and go and live here.
"This country is not being nice to Americans. They have implemented the reciprocity visa of USD 131 and most american are being told at the border that they will not be allowed to re enter if they keep using tourist visas."
The US is the scapegoat of South America, and as things get worse here in Argentina, it could be more difficult for US citizens to come and go and live here.At first read, I agreed with you 100% , but if you think about it, Argentina is not doing anything that all of their neighbors haven't already done. In fact, it surprises me that it has taken them this long.
Also, if someone lives here and have been relying on the trip to Colonia to stay legal, then they should kind of expect this may happen. Just my 2 centavos. I'm sure if you can find someone to bribe there won't be any problem.
I just came back from a two month stint in the US. On one hand I am glad to be back, but there sure seems like something is brewing in the air. And I don't mean the exhaust from the collectivos.
Maybe the 90 day Uruguay trip has worked fine for the last 10 or 100 years.
But for those of you who have said there is no reason to go through the hassle of obtaining an Argentine permanent residence or citizenship, even though you meet the basic requirements, there's a good reason. Uncertainty - especially in South America.
I say the same thing to a few people I know here in the USA who have "permanent" residence but have not naturalized as US citizens mostly due to pride in their native country.
Legalize yourself now just in case you won't have that choice in future years, or you may really regret it. As a US citizen you have literally nothing to lose.
I agree what both of you say about the immigration in general. I had already decided to get my residency well before the apparent shift in policy.
The problem I have is that US citizens seem to be singled out for the 90 day thing. It's not necessarily a broad-based thing. That's according to what my lawyer was telling me related to the shift in immigration scrutiny and some anecdotes I've heard from Americans as opposed to, say Canadians and Australians who are also targets of the "reciprocity visa" tax. That's more of a feeling than a fact, because the truth is I don't know that many ex-pats who live here who are not from the US.
However, there is another ex-pat website covering Argentina where I have seen US citizens talking about having these problems and have not seen other nationalities talking about that. Maybe more US citizens attempt to be here on 90 day visas than other nationalities?
As far as the fascism comments. That has nothing to do with their immigration policy. Argentina's current rulers call themselves Peronists, which to me means they want to be fascist and they try hard and come close to succeeding, at least at times.
The US is a good-sized target here. The book "Las Venas Abiertas de Latina America" is on the curriculum in schools here. "Everyone knows" that the US' shelfish foreign and economic policies are the primary reason the Argentina people can't get ahead. It wouldn't surprise me at all if the government is purposefully targeting Americans to help create a focus for the people to be pissed off at.
Fascism is a political system popularised by Mussolini that endeavored to organise all the contributing groups in a given industry to combine in a fascist. The root of the word is the same root as faggot in english. In english it means a bundle of sticks. So for example the car industry fascist would seek to include the capitalists, the workers, the sales force, the servicing shops, the tyre companies etc. Peron picked it up and it was the basis and remains the basis of the Peronist party in Argentina. The fact that it had failed in Italy before the outbreak of WW2 didn't make him think twice. It's appeal to the Argentine political class is that it delivers absolute power, particularly with industrialists on the program and organised labor. After 60 years of absolute failure to improve the lives of Argentinos, it is obvious that is not the aim of the political class. Delias, the leader of the picateers is really the leader of the Argentine Blackshirts. The modern use of the term fascism is a pejorative word and the fact that it really means a bona fide political system is usually not understood.
Argento
Maybe the 90 day Uruguay trip has worked fine for the last 10 or 100 years.
But for those of you who have said there is no reason to go through the hassle of obtaining an Argentine permanent residence or citizenship, even though you meet the basic requirements, there's a good reason. Uncertainty - especially in South America.
Legalize yourself now just in case you won't have that choice in future years, or you may really regret it. As a US citizen you have literally nothing to lose.On the Department of Immigration site their is an interesting note (bragging actually) on the latest computers purchased and implemented at Buquebus, Ezeisa, Colonia Express, etc., (all the entry points for Argentina) to track foreigners coming and going.
http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/ (the site is in spanish).
I don't believe it's a reason to become a resident, but if anyone needed to get their residency the process is very simple once you have your documents properly stamped and translated. See my previous posts and those of others on this matter.
Does anyone know an HONEST person that can help with residency legitimisation as I am A Swiss and American already possesing property here in Bs. As. Province? Also, what is the penalty for not leaving to Uruguay every 3 months?
Does anyone know an HONEST person that can help with residency legitimisation as I am A Swiss and American already possesing property here in Bs. As. Province? Also, what is the penalty for not leaving to Uruguay every 3 months?Contact Gabriel Celano of Celano abogados. (http://www.celano.com.ar/) Will set you back about US$1200 but then he will guide you through the whole process and will do most of the work for you.
US$1200 sounds maybe expensive but by using him the whole process will get a lot shorter compared to doing it yourself. Just make sure you have your birth certificate / criminal history (FBI) from the US with an apostille. Without those documents it will be impossible to start the process.
Does anyone know an HONEST person that can help with residency legitimisation as I am A Swiss and American already possesing property here in Bs. As. Province? Also, what is the penalty for not leaving to Uruguay every 3 months?I realize some feel comfortable using an attorney or so called expert for residency in Argentina and the acquisition of the DNI. My advice is not to use these so called experts because the process in becoming a resident of Argentina and getting the DNI is much easier now than ever. I thought it was easy when I got my residency and DNI, but now the Departments of Immigration (issues residency permits) and The Registry of Persons (issues the DNI) have instituted longer hours, high speed computers, more workers, etc. (please see posts 143 and 150 in this same thread on what is needed to get residency and the DNI)
With the changes instituted a person who has his documents can get his residency letter the same day he submits his application and within 60 to 90 days actually have his DNI. The goal is to eventually issue the DNI within 15 days of having the official one year residency letter. So, probably within 6 months the entire process could take about 45 days instead of about 90 days.
I am stunned at the corporate changes made at these two bureaucratic institutions. They have become efficient and responsive to the clients they serve. For Argentina this change borders on the miraculous.
By the way, the penalty for not renewing the visa every 90 days is a fine of about 50 pesos. However, I think a person who doesn't renew could be playing with fire. The Department of Immigration has implemented high tech computers to track people more efficiently. At this point the consequences for not renewing appear to be small, but who knows what consequences might be in store for those who violate immigration laws and regulations?
Facundo, you're a little behind the times on the fine - it's 300 pesos for non-Mercosur residents and 150 pesos for Mercosur residents now.
Also, I understand what you say about not using someone to help one through the residency process, but I have to disagree with you somewhat.
One could always receive the precaria (temporary residency) the day that one applied for it - IF the application was accepted. Although getting the actual temporary residency papers (once approved) and then following on with the DNI is much quicker and easier than it was in the past, there are other issues to think about.
The biggest one is the people in immigration, which you still have to deal with. If the slightest thing is wrong with your documentation (for example, my name officially ends with an apostrophe, but it's not like that on my passport, and it is on my birth certificate) you will be rejected to fix it (depending on how different it is - I know someone else whose BC had their full name, but their passport had their first name, middle initial and last name and they had to go through hoops to get some agency in the States to say that they were the same person, etc. My wife had the same issue with her mother's name - on ONE DOCUMENT her name ended in "s" rather than "z" and she had to go back to Paraguay to get a statement saying they were the same person) The people in immigration do not review anything else. When they hit one problem, they tell you about it and send you on your way. When you come back the next time and there is another little issue - you're stuck doing it all over again.
If you have everything perfect that you need, and there are no problems, sure, you don't need anyone to help you.
If there are any little problems, the lawyer can often talk the immigration person out of making it an issue (in the case of my apostrophe, for example) The lawyer I use brings gifts to the people there, has spent years cultivating "friendships" and helps one breeze through any minor problems that may be encountered.
On top of all of that - the wait time to get an appointment to file your papers is around 40 days right now. I know of someone who just got their appointment a couple of days ago. Also, it took him almost three weeks to even get someone to answer the phone to make the appointment (yes, it's true - maybe only because of the holidays? Every time your application is rejected, no matter for the tiniest reason, you have to go back and get another appointment - by yourself it could be 40 days.
I received my precaria on Dec. 30, the day before New Year's. I got the appointment to file it three DAYS before, in the middle of the holidaze! Why? Because I had a lawyer who knows the system and knew who to call to get in. It took me almost two months to get my FBI report, my birth certificate, everything apostilled, etc. He did it all for me and just charged the fees he was charged to get it done. He has contacts in the US to make all that happen (since I live here)
Also, many people who are applying for residency don't have a good reason to do so. They aren't married to a resident, they don't have investments or retirement income that bring in $750 US a month, they aren't going to school, they don't have 1.5 million pesos to buy government bonds (that latter went up froom 500K recently) It is very beneficial, for example, to talk to a lawyer to find out what you need to have to prove stable income (salaries don't count - it has to be some sort of investment income) if you are going for a rentista or retirement visa. If you haen't made the guy in immigrations happy with the papers you present by yourself, back to the drawing board.
The laws change often in immigrations, as well. Last year, we were getting residency for my wife's younger sister. She got the residency no problem - we had a letter of authorization for her to be with us from her parents which was fine for getting the precaria, but when we went to get the DNI in November, which is in a different department, we found out that that department had more stringent guidelines for getting the DNI and that authorization wasn't good enough - we had to have something else.
I will not deny that things have become more steamlined in migraciones. I have watched my wife get residency for herself, her brother and her sister and watched her go through hell over two years with them. The last couple of months things did run smoother, but she still had to deal with the people themselves.
This is Argentina. Just because the government streamlines things doesn't mean that it takes away all the problems associated with dealing with tramites.
If you have a lot of free time and feel adventurous, and speak enough Spanish to understand what is going on when you have problems with paperwork (or whatever) then I would agree that doing it yourself is fine.
Otherwise, you can save an unmeasurable amount of time, heartache and uncertainty by hiring someone to help you through the process. If you pay more than Seaman said below, you are being ripped off. It cost me significantly less because my residency is a spouse residency, my wife being a resident, and that makes it much easier.
With the right person helping you, they go down there with you, sit through the waiting (once you get your turn, you go to sit and wait for a number to be called) and do all the talking. You just sign the papers where they indicate and walk out with your paper in one session.
Facundo, you're a little behind the times on the fine - it's 300 pesos for non-Mercosur residents and 150 pesos for Mercosur residents now.
Also, I understand what you say about not using someone to help one through the residency process, but I have to disagree with you somewhat.
One could always receive the precaria (temporary residency) the day that one applied for it - IF the application was accepted. Although getting the actual temporary residency papers (once approved) and then following on with the DNI is much quicker and easier than it was in the past, there are other issues to think about.
The biggest one is the people in immigration, which you still have to deal with. If the slightest thing is wrong with your documentation (for example, my name officially ends with an apostrophe, but it's not like that on my passport, and it is on my birth certificate) you will be rejected to fix it (depending on how different it is - I know someone else whose BC had their full name, but their passport had their first name, middle initial and last name and they had to go through hoops to get some agency in the States to say that they were the same person, etc. My wife had the same issue with her mother's name - on ONE DOCUMENT her name ended in "s" rather than "z" and she had to go back to Paraguay to get a statement saying they were the same person) The people in immigration do not review anything else. When they hit one problem, they tell you about it and send you on your way. When you come back the next time and there is another little issue - you're stuck doing it all over again.
If you have everything perfect that you need, and there are no problems, sure, you don't need anyone to help you.
If there are any little problems, the lawyer can often talk the immigration person out of making it an issue (in the case of my apostrophe, for example) The lawyer I use brings gifts to the people there, has spent years cultivating "friendships" and helps one breeze through any minor problems that may be encountered.
On top of all of that - the wait time to get an appointment to file your papers is around 40 days right now. I know of someone who just got their appointment a couple of days ago. Also, it took him almost three weeks to even get someone to answer the phone to make the appointment (yes, it's true - maybe only because of the holidays? Every time your application is rejected, no matter for the tiniest reason, you have to go back and get another appointment - by yourself it could be 40 days.
I received my precaria on Dec. 30, the day before New Year's. I got the appointment to file it three DAYS before, in the middle of the holidaze! Why? Because I had a lawyer who knows the system and knew who to call to get in. It took me almost two months to get my FBI report, my birth certificate, everything apostilled, etc. He did it all for me and just charged the fees he was charged to get it done. He has contacts in the US to make all that happen (since I live here)
Also, many people who are applying for residency don't have a good reason to do so. They aren't married to a resident, they don't have investments or retirement income that bring in $750 US a month, they aren't going to school, they don't have 1.5 million pesos to buy government bonds (that latter went up froom 500K recently) It is very beneficial, for example, to talk to a lawyer to find out what you need to have to prove stable income (salaries don't count - it has to be some sort of investment income) if you are going for a rentista or retirement visa. If you haen't made the guy in immigrations happy with the papers you present by yourself, back to the drawing board.
The laws change often in immigrations, as well. Last year, we were getting residency for my wife's younger sister. She got the residency no problem - we had a letter of authorization for her to be with us from her parents which was fine for getting the precaria, but when we went to get the DNI in November, which is in a different department, we found out that that department had more stringent guidelines for getting the DNI and that authorization wasn't good enough - we had to have something else.
I will not deny that things have become more steamlined in migraciones. I have watched my wife get residency for herself, her brother and her sister and watched her go through hell over two years with them. The last couple of months things did run smoother, but she still had to deal with the people themselves.
This is Argentina. Just because the government streamlines things doesn't mean that it takes away all the problems associated with dealing with tramites.
If you have a lot of free time and feel adventurous, and speak enough Spanish to understand what is going on when you have problems with paperwork (or whatever) then I would agree that doing it yourself is fine.
Otherwise, you can save an unmeasurable amount of time, heartache and uncertainty by hiring someone to help you through the process. If you pay more than Seaman said below, you are being ripped off. It cost me significantly less because my residency is a spouse residency, my wife being a resident, and that makes it much easier.
With the right person helping you, they go down there with you, sit through the waiting (once you get your turn, you go to sit and wait for a number to be called) and do all the talking. You just sign the papers where they indicate and walk out with your paper in one session.Queso my post and previous postings clearly state what one needs to do get his residency letter and DNI. I was clearly talking about people like yourself and others on this board who are Americans, Europeans, Australians, etc. Not people from Mercosur. The application as you know is different for non-Mercosur and Mercosur citizens. The later fall under Patria Grande and the majority of the applicants are poor people from Paraguay, Bolivia, and other Mercosur countries who have to show (lie) when they entered Argentina and then produce various documents certified by various agencies including the Consulado de Argentina.
I clearly stated to be careful about the name being the same in all the documents or it will be rejected. Also, I would think the majority of people who apply for residency at times return to their home country and over a one week period can easily have all the documents notarized and apostilled or have a relative or friend who can do it for them.
By the way, I'm willing to bet when you and your wife applied for the younger sister's DNI the authorities asked for a "tutela" or authorazation from a national judge stating she can stay in Argentina or that a national judge give your wife the authority to raise her in Argentina. Whatever they asked for I'm sure it was a document showing you have not taken the minor out the country illegally.
Queso, I'm sure if a person feels intimidated or uneasy about tackling the residency application one of these experts can help. However, I know of many people who have applied and found the process at times a little frustrating but not so frustrating they were willing to pay US$1,200 or up to US$5,000 for someone to hold their hand.
I don't believe it's helpful to discuss the Patria Grande application process with the application for residency and DNI for Europeans, Americans, etc. They are two totally different applications.
The cultural and corporate shift that's occurred is phenomenal. This change in Immigration and Registry of Persons is one of the best I've seen in my entire corporate life. It is consumer responsive (I don't see the same prejudices I saw before against the applicants); at times you need to redial the phone number maybe ten times to get a turn. Queso, you can now go on line and get an appointment to submit your papers.
This is just a personal observation I've made about these so called experts while in the field or in the trenches of the Department of Immigration. I've actually helped entire Paraguayan and Bolivian families process their Residency and DNI papers. I've been to just about every obra social used by The Department of Immigration from Boca to Lugano doing a lot of hand holding. The process now of course is concentrated at the two main sites; The Department of Immigration in Retiro and the one on Yrigoyen. I've seen my share of these experts work the room and at the end of the day they waited in line with the rest of the applicants. I've seen more than a few get embarrassed because they were told to go and get a number and wait in line with the rest of the folk.
Btw, thanks for the more recent information on overstaying the visa.
Jajoecha peve (Guarani for see you later)
The Department of Immigration that issues Argentine Residency and The Registry of Persons that issues the DNI have simplified and streamlined the application process for Argentine Residency and the acquisition of the DNI.
Now, when a foreigner, who isn't a citizen of MERCOSUR and Associated countries, applies he still has to submit all the documents already mentioned and discussed in detail in previous postings. However, as in the past, the same day the documents are accepted, the person will be issued a letter (precaria) stating he has been approved for Argentine Residency and will be told to return in 30 days to retrieve his one year renewable letter of residency. At the same time the person applies for Argentine Residency he will be photographed and fingerprinted and will be given the DNI within 45 days (this will be mailed directly to his apartment) This much awaited streamlined approach has reduced the wait time by as much as one year in acquiring the DNI.
So now, within 45 days the person will have his Residency Letter and the DNI. The cost for the Residency is 600 pesos and the DNI is 45 pesos.
There are two critical changes in the application process:
1. All applicants must present The Certificado de Domicilio (certificate of address gotten at the local police station) When asked what is the purpose of the Certificado be sure to mention, "Migraciones".
2. All now must make an appointment before submitting the completed application. This can be done by phone or internet at the Department of Immigration site:
http://www.migraciones.gov.ar/ (click on "Solicite su Turno)
The appointment is given within a few days of calling or submitting your information online. Once you get to your appointment it's highly probable you won't wait more than a few minutes before you see a person who will take your application.
Suerte.
From discoverbuenosaires. Com:
"Once again, Argentina has made a major change to their policies with little advance notice. The rentista visa, which is a popular option for expats wishing to live legally in Argentina, now has an income requirement of AR $8000 / month per person. This represents a 333% increase from the previous amount of AR $2400 / month. This law became effective on July 29,2010, by Disposition Nbr.1534/2010 of the DNM (in Spanish)."http://www.discoverbuenosaires.com/argentina-rentista-visa-income-requirements-increased.
What a shocker! Aren't some new residents going to get trapped when they show up for their second or third renewal, and are told that their former $2,500 a month income no longer suffices? How are people coping?
Member #3320
12-17-10, 09:13
Hello guys,
Can someone confirm that indeed 6 months of stay is required in every 1 year of temporary residency as per the new rules set by Migraciones. Can anyone confirm that? I believe that was never the case before!
Please advise.
Thanks.
From discoverbuenosaires. Com:
http://www.discoverbuenosaires.com/argentina-rentista-visa-income-requirements-increased
What a shocker! Aren't some new residents going to get trapped when they show up for their second or third renewal, and are told that their former $2, 500 a month income no longer suffices? How are people coping?
I don't have experience with this but I doubt it's for existing cases and if that's the case become a perm - tourist
Littletruths
07-29-12, 06:55
Gentlemen,
Does anybody know whether the appliant's criminal history (FBI check) MUST be immaculate in order to successfully apply for residence permit (and for naturalization?) in Argentina?
For example, if someone has got some criminal records dating ten years back, is this going to be a sure cause of rejection of the residence permit request?
Thanks for any input!
Bless
Wild Walleye
07-30-12, 04:07
Gentlemen,
Does anybody know whether the appliant's criminal history (FBI check) MUST be immaculate in order to successfully apply for residence permit (and for naturalization?) in Argentina?
For example, if someone has got some criminal records dating ten years back, is this going to be a sure cause of rejection of the residence permit request?
Thanks for any input!
BlessThe FBI is a US agency. Oddly, most foreign countries take immigration and naturalization a little more seriously than the US. You should speak with an Argentine, immigration attorney.
Littletruths
07-30-12, 13:45
The FBI is a US agency. Oddly, most foreign countries take immigration and naturalization a little more seriously than the US. You should speak with an Argentine, immigration attorney.Yeah, an argentinian immigraton attorney would probably know how it is; but I decided to informally ask on here since I see quite a few members here have gone trough the process, so I hoped someone would have a clue about it and be willing to share.
Simple answer, something on the FBI report, yes. Lots of hoops and will probably need a lawyer. Not a deal breaker. If you apply outside Argentina, use the services of an Argentine Consulates to obtain residency, most accept local / state police reports going back five years, which is the requirement. *Apply in Argentina, you are stuck with the FBI report and everything shows up. These things can change for sure. Know people that have applied at a consulate and a five year report was accepted from local authorities. Things could or may have changed. YMMV.
Littletruths
07-30-12, 16:45
Simple answer, something on the FBI report, yes. Lots of hoops and will probably need a lawyer. Not a deal breaker. If you apply outside Argentina, use the services of an Argentine Consulates to obtain residency, most accept local / state police reports going back five years, which is the requirement. *Apply in Argentina, you are stuck with the FBI report and everything shows up. These things can change for sure. Know people that have applied at a consulate and a five year report was accepted from local authorities. Things could or may have changed. YMMV.Thank you very much, I really appreciate your input!
SnakeOilSales
07-31-12, 06:00
I know a guy who married an Argentine within the last few years and now has permanent residency; he did time in the Texas prison system and still managed to obtain permanent residency. Send me a PM and I'll send you the guys email.
Wild Walleye
07-31-12, 13:39
Yeah, an argentinian immigraton attorney would probably know how it is; but I decided to informally ask on here since I see quite a few members here have gone trough the process, so I hoped someone would have a clue about it and be willing to share.Sorry, I wasn't busting on you, I was trying to convey my opinion that you should really use a knowledgeable attorney for something like that. Although, you are correct that fishing in this pool is often productive. Just look at Damman's post and the potential to truncate the background to 5 years by going through a specific type of office.
Good luck.
Wild Walleye
07-31-12, 13:40
I know a guy who married an Argentine within the last few years and now has permanent residency; he did time in the Texas prison system and still managed to obtain permanent residency. Send me a PM and I'll send you the guys email.I could see a couple of your other friends (Holder, Obama, Jarret, etc) doing a little time, too.
Gentlemen,
Does anybody know whether the appliant's criminal history (FBI check) MUST be immaculate in order to successfully apply for residence permit (and for naturalization?) in Argentina?
For example, if someone has got some criminal records dating ten years back, is this going to be a sure cause of rejection of the residence permit request?
Thanks for any input!
BlessI too know someone who spent some time in prison in the States, years ago, and had no problems whatsoever with their residency here.
Personally, almost 30 years ago, I was arrested in Austin for stealing street signs (Longhorn Blvd. Perfect for the dorm room. Idiot!). Believe it or not, I was charged with a felony. I received deferred adjudication for my sentence, worked it off, and thought it had been expunged from my record as promised. I never had any problem at all with jobs, credit, etc, related to this indiscretion over the next 30 years.
Here they are only supposed to look at the last five years of the applicant's law enforcement report. I couldn't believe it when the old charge showed up on my FBI report. My lawyer told me that there may be some problems related to this, but all solvable. He said the possibility existed that someone in immigrations may tag my file to go before a judge and there was a chance that I would have to clear the judge with a $1000 peso gift certificate to Falabella or something similar.
At the end of the process, I had no problems whatsoever with this (but problems with other, more simple things!).
But I agree with the others. Find a lawyer and make sure. I wouldn't go through the residency process without someone who knew all the ropes anyway, criminal history or not. I watched my wife get her residency without a lawyer (she's from Paraguay and being Mercorsur, that should have been very easy but wasn't for various reasons) and helped her sister as well. It was not easy and full of a lot of wasted time and frustration. After that, we used a lawyer every time (various other family members coming from Paraguay and myself).
I know a good, honest, dependable lawyer if you want a reference (PM me). He charges a relatively reasonable rate. If you get quoted over $2000 USD to get the job done, I believe that's way too much. The last I knew, the lawyer I used was charging around $1000 USD clear up to getting the actual DNI, not just the residency process. Of course, none of the prices you will be quoted will include the fees from immigrations, fees to get translations, FBI report, etc.
Littletruths
08-01-12, 06:43
Gentlemen, Thank You all for the feedback!
So far I have contacted two immigration attorneys trough e-mail (the first two that appeared on a google search) and what I got out of them goes more or less like this, or at least that's what they said;
Obtaining the residence permit shouldn't be a big issue if the criminal records are relative to crimes that carry less than three-years sentences, the situation would still be looked into, but the chances of getting trough in that case are fairly good.
Things get far more complicated in case the records are relative to more serious offences (as sadly it is in my case) , and then the chances of getting trough are really minimal.
I'm still waiting to know whether being married to an Argentinian woman makes a difference or not, because for example that's how it it is in Spain, where when you apply for residence you should produce your criminal background as well, but not if you're married to a Spanish citizen.
The precious tip about "five-years check / FBI check" is sadly useless to me as I'm Italian and the system is different in Italy, we only have the "fedina penale" which is the criminal record bill and I doubt there is a way to go around this, but I will look into it.
By-the-way I could have my criminal record bill cleared in theory, but on top of a sort of fine that there is to pay for it then there is a five-years waiting time to get the whole procedure trough. Not too sure it is worth it.
I will keep the forum posted if I find out more, as the informations could be useful to someone else too.
Bless
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.4 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.