View Full Version : Mardi Gras
FireDawg2000
01-08-06, 14:14
Hello Fellas,
I will be in South America for Carnival 2006. I haven't chose which country to visit yet, but I do know Rio, Brazil will not be one of them. I don't want to around all those people. Anyway, I will be visiting two countries while I'm out there. Right now I'm thinking Buenos Aires and Montevideo.
Can anyone here tell me what Carnival is like in Buenos Aires? Do they do anything special for Carnival.
Thanks Guys.
Firedawg,
As I mentioned on the other thread, the Amish of Pennsylvania throw a better Mardi Gras blowout than Portenos. I have never seen anything for it here, although I guess there may be a few small parties. I few years ago I went to a small town (Gualeguaychu) in the Entre Rios province that is reportedly the best carnaval of Argentina. Talk about lame!! It looked like a homecoming parade.
Many countries in SA and the Carib celebrate carnaval. Argentina doesnt, I'm guessing because the founding fathers looked down on this party as something that the darkskinned people do. Maybe wrong. They much prefer falling asleep and slitting their wrists to Tango music.
Go to Brazil, no question. Ive heard that Rio can be too much and even the Brasilians I know say its become over-comercialized and phony there. Go to a smaller city like Vitoria. I went there one year and it was a blast. You can get there quite easily/quickly with one stop in Sao Paulo. The Brasilians tell me that if you want to see and live a real carnaval, go to one of the northern cities like Fortaleza. Just don't spend it here.
Firedawg,
As I mentioned on the other thread, the Amish of Pennsylvania throw a better Mardi Gras blowout than Portenos. I have never seen anything for it here, although I guess there may be a few small parties. I few years ago I went to a small town (Gualeguaychu) in the Entre Rios province that is reportedly the best carnaval of Argentina. Talk about lame! It looked like a homecoming parade.
Many countries in SA and the Carib celebrate carnaval. Argentina doesnt, I'm guessing because the founding fathers looked down on this party as something that the darkskinned people do. Maybe wrong. They much prefer falling asleep and slitting their wrists to Tango music.
Go to Brazil, no question. Ive heard that Rio can be too much and even the Brasilians I know say its become over-comercialized and phony there. Go to a smaller city like Vitoria. I went there one year and it was a blast. You can get there quite easily / quickly with one stop in Sao Paulo. The Brasilians tell me that if you want to see and live a real carnaval, go to one of the northern cities like Fortaleza. Just don't spend it here.Moore is right about the current Carnival scene in Buenos Aires.
Carnival in BA used to be important until the 60-70s, but the scenery was always "light" compared to Rio or Montevideo. On those ancient times, kids played with water pistols, water baloons and foam sprays (remember that February is rather warm in BA, and during the 60s there wasn't as much air conditioning as today)
Gualeguaychú is the most touristry carnival of Argentina, but not the most original and not even the "lamest". If you want to see something REALLY different, go to "La Puna" (The Plateau) in Jujuy and Salta and / or to Oruro, in Bolivia.
You will see there a "dark-sided" Carnival, with genuine native music that doesn't sound enthousiastic and a "sad celebration" that permeates everything. If I'm not mistaken, during these days people celebrate also their cult to Pachamama (Mother Earth) sacrifying animals and drinking chicha (a fermented drink from corn, perhaps different from the Peruvian chicha)
In Oruro, you will see some people wearing 40 kg customs made of solid gold and silver, parading (or trying to do so) sorrounded by guards armed with machine guns. Surrealistic.
As you can see, nothing like belly dancing bodies and high heeled mulatas as in Rio.
Montevideo has a MUCH more authentic Carnival, but Gualeguaychú-style. For the tourist, such "lame parading" doesn't say anything, but for those who understand the country, the Uruguayan politics and the problems of the Uruguayan society, the music and the parades seem funny and enriching. Again, you have to understand the language and that people to enjoy it.
Except Brazil, many Latin Americans do not appreciate that much the American style of "bigger and / or more expensive" is better.
As for Brazilian Carnival, Salvador-Bahía is the place to go: Original Afro-Brazilian music, huge Carnival scene but not as commercial as Rio (or it used to be that way)
Hope this helps,
Andres
FireDawg2000
01-10-06, 11:15
Thanks guys. I really appreciate the information. It helps a lot. I'm getting the impression that Uruguay will be a disapointment. How about Santiago, Chile? I really want to visit 2 countries while in South America. Any advice or suggestions on a second destination would be helpful.
Fire,
It depends on what exactly you expect. Santiago is much more expensive than Argentina and other SA countries in general. Also, the mongering activities are not as good as in BA and also, more expensive. Otherwise, Santiago is a nice mid-size city (~ 5 million) with not so much of a night life.
HTH,
Nicko
In case you haven't already been there I would check out the wider forum network run by the same operators as this one called "The International Sex Guide"
They have a complete info section on South America.
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=155
Goblin
Very simple Firedawg, visit Argentina and Brazil. I like Santiago sometimes but its generally a boring and sterile place. Reminds me of a standard US suburban city like Denver. You're not missing anything by skipping Santiago, and I think that most others will agree.
PS Andres although the info about the festivals in Jujuy/Bolivia is interesting, I believe that most humans coming to S America for Carnaval are looking for a big wild party, not some animal sacrifice freak show or, worse yet, a dinky "Latin comedy sidewalk parade" that includes enriching political/societal themes, the latter sounding excruciatingly lame as most Latin "comedy" is. They want to party, drink heavily, dance, fuck and forget about politics and national problems for a while. BTW it seems odd that you mention the Brazilians as the only Latins sharing a certain viewpoint with Americans - I suspected there was more conflict between US thinking and Brazilian thinking than any other pair.
PS Andres although the info about the festivals in Jujuy / Bolivia is interesting, I believe that most humans coming to S America for carnaval are looking for a big wild party, not some animal sacrifice freak show or, worse yet, a dinky "Latin comedy sidewalk parade" that includes enriching political / societal themes, the latter sounding excruciatingly lame as most Latin "comedy" is. If you read carefully my post again, you will see that I didn't recommended La Puna as a wild party destination. Also, I know some mongers who enjoy discovering new cultures and not only new pussies.
"Lame as the most commedy is"? Not all Latin culture is constrained to Mexican soap operas. That's what you can see on TV back home, but it's far from representing the whole indigenous culture in Latin America.
BTW it seems odd that you mention the Brazilians as the only Latins sharing a certain viewpoint with Americans - I suspected there was more conflict between US thinking and Brazilian thinking than any other pair."A certain viewpoint", that is. In many other viewpoints are different; but surprisingly, those viewpoints that create conflicts between Brazil and the US are the ones in which both countries want to play the same rol (Visa reciprocity, control of free trade blocks, etc)
Andres
I don't need to reread your post Andres. Believe it or not, my life does not revolve 100% around pussy, maybe 80%. I like seeing new cultures and have seen many. But, as I said, most people want to PARTY and go crazy for carnaval. The last thing they want to see at carnaval is some lame attempt at comedy while sipping a cortado at a streetside cafe.
I have not seen many Mexican soaps although some are good since at least there are generally young, pretty actrices. Comedy does not seem to be a strong point for Latins. After living here several years, I think I understand the language, history, and daily experience pretty well although I will never be a native of course. The "comedy" here blows! Ive seen reruns of local "comedy" productions, numerous local sitcoms, and even a few live standup acts. Ever watched an episode of "Son Amores" or "MDQ"? Its amazing that this stuff actually makes it on the air. Charly Garcia seems to be quite laughable though. Ever wonder why this trash is never exported / consumed around the world? Argentine beef, on the other hand, is good and is exported.
I don't need to reread your post Andres. Believe it or not, my life does not revolve 100% around pussy, maybe 80%. I like seeing new cultures and have seen many. But, as I said, most people want to PARTY and go crazy for carnaval. The last thing they want to see at carnaval is some lame attempt at comedy while sipping a cortado at a streetside cafe.
I have not seen many Mexican soaps although some are good since at least there are generally young, pretty actrices. Comedy does not seem to be a strong point for Latins. After living here several years, I think I understand the language, history, and daily experience pretty well although I will never be a native of course. The "comedy" here blows! Ive seen reruns of local "comedy" productions, numerous local sitcoms, and even a few live standup acts. Ever watched an episode of "Son Amores" or "MDQ"? Its amazing that this stuff actually makes it on the air. Charly Garcia seems to be quite laughable though. Ever wonder why this trash is never exported / consumed around the world? Argentine beef, on the other hand, is good and is exported.I don't get your point of insisting on "comedy" for what is clearly a sad, dramatic cultural phenomenum (specially if you never saw that before) but anyway.
From the list of artists that you detail, it is obvious that you get just a superficial grasp of the whole area, specially the current and most commercial ones.
For instance, take the example of Charly García.
http://www.rock.com.ar/bios/0/177.shtml
He is the most famous star in the history of "Argentine rock". He recorded more than 20 LPs, and introduced several music trends in the country, from the 60-70s folk rock (Sui Generis) to symphonic rock (La Máquina de Hacer Pájaros) to "progressive rock" (Serú Girán) hitting the peak of his career as a solist on the mid 80s and declining thereafter.
Of course, you watch today one of his interviews and you can hardly get a hint of his past career. But. How would a foreigner just living a few years in BA know that?
During the 80s and 90s, bands such as Soda Stereo or solists such as Calamaro played extensively in Spain and Latin America, selling tons of copies and inspiring groups abroad such as Café Tacuba. Again, how would you know that?
As of real "comedy", you will find a full range of humor tastes, from the dirty jokes (Jorge Corona) to highly intellectual humor (Les Luthiers) not to mention the regional variability (Tucumán, Córdoba, etc)
Even if having lived there for a few years, it is highly advisable to be open, and not to draw conclusions so fast when lacking information and / or coordinates, specially on cultural phenomena which foreigners are clearly impaired to fully understand.
Andres
Andres,
I appreciate your comments and you're right, I will never have the intimate local knowledge of someone that lived here their entire life.
If the artists you list are so great, then why had I never heard of them before moving here? People (age 20-50) around the world, like me, who never studied Irish history and never even visited Ireland know who U2 is - probably because their songs are/were on the radio and they like/liked them. No language barriers in any country if your music is good.
I have already heard your line though, mostly from Europeans and other Argentines: "We're so complex, you'll never understand us, you're culturally impaired, blah blah blah."
FireDawg2000
01-11-06, 05:43
Thanks guys for your input. I guess I'll turn my focus towards Brazil for a second destination. With the exception of Rio does anyone have any suggestions on which Brazilian city to check out? Are there any diamonds in the ruff outside of Rio and Sao Paulo? I saw the suggestion for Salvador-Bahía. Anybody else with a helpful opinion?
Thanks guys
Thanks guys for your input. I guess I'll turn my focus towards Brazil for a second destination. With the exception of Rio does anyone have any suggestions on which Brazilian city to check out? Are there any diamonds in the ruff outside of Rio and Sao Paulo? I saw the suggestion for Salvador-Bahía. Anybody else with a helpful opinion?
Thanks guysKeep in mind that if you're a US citizen, you'll need to get a visa before you go to Brazil. It can be a hassle, especially for you, since I understand you're living right now on the banks of the Euphrates.
What I would do, FD, is to plan on spending your first 5-6 days in Buenos Aires, enjoying the town. (Even 2 weeks in Buenos Aires is not enough to sample all its delights.) Then for the second 5-6 days, I would plan on going on some internal trips in Argentina, such as to Bariloche, to the southern glaciers, to Cordoba, to Salta, or to the Iguazu cataracts. Internal travel on packages sold by local travel agents can be very inexpensive and convenient, and if you have some luck you will be able to either bring a new friend with you, or meet new ones along the way.
Roxana, who posts on the board, is a great resource for arranging this kind of thing. She's a personal friend to many of us, and makes her living helping out visiting gentlemen with their personal and even more intimate arrangements.
Firedawg,
Assuming you're a US citizen, you can probably get your Brazil visa at the Brazilian embassy / consulate here in BA. Thats where I got mine and it was quite easy. This is even more convenient if you don't live in or won't be passing thru one of the 5 or 6 US cities that have a Brazilian consulate. You normally have to have your airtickets (not more than about 3 weeks before Brazil entry) in hand to get the visa. Email or phone first.
When deciding the logistics, it depends on how much time you have. A couple weeks would be ideal but you could do the trip in 10 days - 4/5 in BA, 2 in Bariloche, Cordoba, or Calafate, and 3 in the Brazilian city of your choice.
If the artists you list are so great, then why had I never heard of them before moving here? People (age 20-50) around the world, like me, who never studied Irish history and never even visited Ireland know who U2 is - probably because their songs are / were on the radio and they like / liked them. No language barriers in any country if your music is good.You are assuming that, if something is good, you should have heard about, an argument that I deem wrong. For instance, Mano Negra was a French group famous in Europe and Latin America, and hardly heard of in the US.
I have already heard your line though, mostly from Europeans and other Argentines: "We're so complex, you'll never understand us, you're culturally impaired, blah blah blah."You commit a mistake by tagging all Argentine people as similar. I never said that "we are Europeans", but if you want to believe it, be my guest.
Some people are more skilled than others to understand and adapt to new cultures. For instance, Dickhead not only grasped very accurately many Argentine traits but also he sings Argentine pop (something that I'm sure makes him gain respect from chicas)
Andres
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