Household goods and customs requirements

[StrayLight]

You know, I found this board in an attempt to figure out the mongering scene in BsAs. And it's a very good board for that. But the non-mongering stuff about the practicalities of visiting and living is awesome beyond description.

De todos modos, does anyone have any experience with shipping household goods and the related customs requirements? This is **NOT** a question about bringing household goods vs. Buying them in BsAs. I have already resolved that issue in my mind. This is simply a question about the customs requirements related to shipping household goods. And to be more precise, I will have a one-year retiree visa that apparently will need to be renewed at least once more in-country before receiving a permanent retiree visa.

Thanks.

[Moore]

I'll make some educated guesses. You would probably have to pay 50%-100% import tax on some goods, not sure how the value is determined. Cars are probably in a league of their own, but the basic reg if you, for instance, buy a car in Chile and bring it in are that the import taxes are completely phased out when the car is >12 years old. Just a single example.

I know you've already made up your mind but you should consider the cost of buying here vs the likely high cost of shipping and taxes once you have figures nailed down. Besides, some things like the size of a US bed will simply be off-spec here.

You'll probably need three years of renewals, not one, to convert to perm residence after you get your temp. When you get your perm there might be a one-time tax exclusion for importing personal assets. I remember that one of the rights specifically granted upon attaining perm is the right to bring your personal assets into the country, whatever that means.

[StrayLight]

I know you've already made up your mind but you should consider the cost of buying here.Actually, what I've made up my mind about is what to buy in Argentina and what not to buy.

The bed, for instance, you are spot on about. And there are quite a few other things that it makes more sense to buy there. But I have a fair amount of stuff (a 20-foot container's worth) that is pretty much unique or whatever that I'd like to bring.

I've met some people who have moved there and simply chucked everything they owned in the States and entirely re-provisioned their households there. I'll go halfway on that, but I still have stuff I need to bring in.

Regarding the visa renewals, maybe I misinterpretted what I was told here at the consulate. They did say three years, but I understood them to mean that on my third application it would be permanent (and I'll already have been issued the first one when I get there) So I figured one more then permanent. I'll go rephrase the question for them.

Thanks,

SL

[Thomaso276]

Yep, big tax on goods brought in. My experience was that the customs guy asked how could they know if I decided to move out of Argentina and sold my stuff here that I would pay the tax! This was on two boxes of stuff. I told his boss I wasn't moving here to have a garage sale and make 2 grand. He signed the form. Buy here.

[StrayLight]

Buy here.As I said, with some things it makes sense. With others, it doesn't. For instance, I lived in the Persian Gulf for a couple of years, and commuted there for several years both before and after that. Over those years, I put together a pretty decent oriental carpet and rug collection that I bought at pretty decent prices. My spot checks in Buenos Aires indicate (1) I cannot come close to the style of carpet / rug I like, and (2) the prices for general oriental carpets / rugs are pretty damned high compared to what I paid anyway. So my carpets and rugs come with me. And I could say that about a lot of other stuff, too.

Here's my question to you: when you shipped your stuff in, what was your visa situation?

[Moore]

Regarding the visa renewals, maybe I misinterpretted what I was told here at the consulate. They did say three years, but I understood them to mean that on my third application it would be permanent (and I'll already have been issued the first one when I get there) So I figured one more then permanent. I'll go rephrase the question for them.Three annual renewals after obtaining the temp visa. After the the 3rd renewal it will be several months before your perm is granted. Thats why they give you a 3rd (into your 4th year at that point) - so you're still legal until the perm is approved. The perm conversion is not so much of a rubber stamp process like the annual temp renewals are, IME anyway. So from the time you first obtain your temp, add about 3.5 years until you get perm.

I had a huge corporate law firm doing most of the legwork/lobbying for me and it was still a pain in the ass. Every year when the renewals come due you must be in BA with the correct, updated documents (all "i"s and "t"s dotted/crossed) or you will lose the visa and have to start over.

[StrayLight]

It is now five months later, and I can speak well and fluently, before large audiences and on many occassions, on the subject of bringing all of your household goods into Argentina.

I'm not going to attempt to write it all down from soup to nuts on this board, but if anyone is thinking about doing it, please feel free to PM me. It's not nearly as difficult as one might expect from all the misinformation and partial information floating around the Internet. But it is something you need to think though from the very first step when chosing a shipping company in the U. S. or some other foreign country.

============================================

StrayLight,

I think I speak for a number of us when I tell you that a detailed report fo your experiences would be of great interest.

Why dole it out one PM at a time when you can tell all of us at one time.

Thanks,

Jackson

=================================================

Well, Jackson, I guess that just now I am so fucking exhausted from the whole thing that I don't feel like dealing with it any more. It was extremely stressful, mainly due to the vast uncertainties at every level.

When I said it wasn't nearly as difficult as expected, I suppose I was refering to the fact that I shipped over 300 pieces of furniture, art, rugs, books, etc., and that when we opened the crate and counted it all, every single piece was there, and it was all in good shape. There were absolutely no hangups in customs, and the cost was quite reasonable. Nonetheless, it was a pretty trying experience.

Now that that's over, I really don't have the energy or the inclination at this point to try writing an article about it, but give me a week or two -- and perhaps a few chicas -- to get over it and I'll see what I can do.

SL

[Thomaso276]

SL: please take a well deserved rest and then post some specifics about the move.
As well, if your are a resident, did you have the right to import your personal vehicle?

I agree wholehardily with Jackson as several of us are very interested.

I have posted on DNI requirements if it makes you feel better.

[Ricardo]

SL,

I hope to ship some personal goods from Boston (mostly books, CDs (store bought and burned) some art, used electronics including speakers and miscellaneous items. All are used and putting a fair market value will be difficult.

So I am very interested in getting the benefit of your experience once you get the energy to tackle a posting on this issue.

Most important is your recommendation on a shipping company and how customs was handled.

I do not and will not have a DNI.

Hope you do let those of us who can use your insight get it some time soon.

Best wishes.

Ricardo

[StrayLight]

I do not and will not have a DNI. Are you entering on any kind of visa other than a 90-day tourist visa? I'm pretty sure my own experience, re: customs, will only pertain to someone who has at least a one-year temporary visa (while waiting for a permanent visa) But tell me your status and I'll try to point you in the right direction.

For picking a shipping company, go to this link...

http://www.movingscam.com/

...and start reading the "Planning an International Move" by Michael Zotnik, and also go into the "Message Boards" and peruse the International Moves forum.

At the end of the day, you will undoubtedly want a mover that is F.I.D.I certified, and you can read more about that at http://www.fidi.com. I believe that site can help you find FIDI-certified movers in your area.

SL

[After5]

Are you entering on any kind of visa other than a 90-day tourist visa? I'm pretty sure my own experience, re: customs, will only pertain to someone who has at least a one-year temporary visa (while waiting for a permanent visa) But tell me your status and I'll try to point you in the right direction. SLThanks for your report and links, StrayLight.

In Delores Johnson's e-book "Moving to Argentina" offered at escapeartist.com, she states that having a rentista visa allowed her a 9-month window to import personal goods from the U.S. duty-free, thus avoiding duties of 40 to 70% that would otherwise apply.

From your comment about reasonable costs, I gather that your one-year visa did indeed entitle you to a break on importing your possessions. Is Delores Johnson correct, that it's actually duty-free if imported between 3 months before and 6 months after your arrival on a one-year visa?

Most of what I want to import is English-language books. I would pare down the collection if it's going to be taxed. But if not, I would just bring them all.

[StrayLight]

Thanks for your report and links, StrayLight.

In Delores Johnson's e-book "Moving to Argentina" offered at escapeartist. Com, she states that having a rentista visa allowed her a 9-month window to import personal goods from the U. S. Duty-free, thus avoiding duties of 40 to 70% that would otherwise apply.

From your comment about reasonable costs, I gather that your one-year visa did indeed entitle you to a break on importing your possessions. Is Delores Johnson correct, that it's actually duty-free if imported between 3 months before and 6 months after your arrival on a one-year visa?

Most of what I want to import is English-language books. I would pare down the collection if it's going to be taxed. But if not, I would just bring them all.Here is what my understanding is.

Yes, you have between 3 months prior and 6 months after arriving to ship your personal goods.

This issue is not whether or not you pay 40% - 70% of anything. I believe that only applies to Argentine nationals who are returning, and for them it's 50%.

What foreigners who are shipping in household goods need to do is arrange for a guaranteor to insure the shipment against the owner selling any of it before (1) he or she moves out of the country, or (2) the visa becomes permanent. The guaranteor is, in effect, your bondsman.

Nominally, the guaranteor will charge something like 3.5% of the assessed value per year to assume this role. So the issue is. What is the assesed value?

I was told that in theory, the assessed value is $3 USD per kilo. However, I was also told that the customs people rarely assess a shipment of household goods at over $5,000 USD. And in fact, that's what my shipment was assessed at: $15,000 pesos.

There is a little-known caveat here, though. The weight of books and clothing should be subracted from the total weight, and they should not count against you. So if the bulk of your shipment is books, you should be able to negotiate something really reasonable.

Let me also add this, though. I arranged my entire shipment through an international moving company, and the agent at this end took care of all the customs stuff for me. My advice to you is to pick your overall shipping agent carefully, find out who the agent will be that will be handling it in Argentina, and then talk to that agent (very often ArgenMove or Mercovan) to be sure you have all your ducks in a row before you do it.

Hope that helps.

SL

[After5]

Nominally, the guaranteor will charge something like 3.5% of the assessed value per year to assume this role. So the issue is. What is the assesed value?

I was told that in theory, the assessed value is $3 USD per kilo. However, I was also told that the customs people rarely assess a shipment of household goods at over $5,000 USD. And in fact, that's what my shipment was assessed at: $15,000 pesos.

There is a little-known caveat here, though. The weight of books and clothing should be subracted from the total weight, and they should not count against you. So if the bulk of your shipment is books, you should be able to negotiate something really reasonable.

Hope that helps.

SLHelps? It's pure gold.

Many thanks for clarifying this mystery-shrouded issue!

[StrayLight]

Many thanks for clarifying this mystery-shrouded issue!Well, I'd suggest waiting until some of the information I've tried to provide proves useful before you thank me. LOL!

As with so many things in Argentina, it may be that there is no "right" way to bring your stuff in; there's only the way it worked for a specific individual.

For me, that's how it worked. From talking to a few other expats, it appears that that's how it basically worked for them, too. But you may very well find that your own experience is markedly different.

Here's one thing that's changing even as we speak.

Apparently a lot of expats have ripped of guaranteors lately by not continuing to pay their premiums once their stuff successfully negotiated customs. This caused the guaranteors to eat the penalty, which is substantial. So now some guaranteors are charging way more than the historic 3.5% annual premium. One guaranteor wanted 15% annually from me. Another one wanted to hold the assessed value -- $5,000 USD -- for the duration (along with receiving my annual 3.5% premium) and return it (without interest) only once I had my final visa.

In short, you need to get on top of this early. Don't just listen to how I did it; call ArgenMove and Mercovan and anyone else you can find and get their input, too. And get a guaranteor lined up well before your shipment arrives.

SL

[Tinman]

Ok, I have some info from my experiences that I hope will help.

I am a Permanent Resident and went to the Customs office in the province where my my address is registered to ask them about this.

I have not shipped my items yet but am merely paving the way for some time next year.

It appears the key here is detailing the items you are shipping ahead of time and writing a little letter to the customs office in the province where your stuff will be delivered. They open a 'tramite' for you that is valid for 6 months. Because my profession is computer-related, I wrote down that I would be bringing in 4 computers (2 laptops and 2 desktops) along with 2 digital cameras for my job. My profession is clearly documented in my immigration papers, so there should be no questions there.

The letter should be addressed to the head of customs in the province where you live and you need to take the letter to the customs office in person and have it stamped. They should file the letter and give you a tramite number and a phone number to call them when you have your stuff delivered.

As a permanent resident you are allowed to bring personal items and 1 vehicle (as long as it is older than 3 months) without being taxed. Please someone correct me if they've heard differently. You may also want to speak with the Argentine Consulate in the US to see if they prefer a different procedure than what was outlined by the customs office I inquired.

Also, if you are able to declare anything with the Aduana in the airport upon leaving Argentina between trips I would highly recommend this. I declared the laptop I had with me so whenever I enter the country on subsequent visits this will be ignored. Also keep purchase receipts if possible to show that the item is a used item and the value in case they insist on charging you a tax for some reason. (I take good care of my things so they look new)

It's not really a big deal, just make sure you declare your things ahead of time in as much detail as you can; you can also generalize certain items as 'personal' items or 'clothing' so you don't have to account for every article specifically, for instance.

Hope this helps.

I'll hopefully follow up some time next year but until then, good luck gents.

Tin.