View Full Version : Group Dinners
Thomaso276
06-18-06, 17:42
Maybe as a result of the inflation here over the past year and a half or my advanced age I would like to know how members feel about simply dividing a dinner bill by the number of participants. My concern lately involves bottles of wine (in some restaurants 30 to 50 pesos or more per bottle) ordered with dinner, as well as deserts, extra salads, etc. I do not drink wine and have a hard time chipping in for others who enjoy the grape. After all I don't have two Chivas Regals and then expect everyone to chip in for the extra 50 pesos.
It is starting to bug me that my bill is usually about 40 or 50 pesos but I am expected to chip in 80 or more. By the way I haven't paid for wine I do not drink at the last couple of outings and it seemed to bug some folks.
I'm not gonna vote cuz I really don't know the right answer but I feel your pain. I'm not a big eater and I don't do dessert so I kinda get screwed sometimes, and although I like wine okay I can't tell the difference between a 20 peso bottle and a 50 peso bottle. On the other hand I hate passing the check around to see what everyone owes and anyway it seems like you never come up with enough money that way anyhow. In practice we divide the check equally and if I feel like I'm getting screwed I just drink more to make up for it.
Hi Thomaso276,
I agree with you. The fact is that the wine can easily double the dinner bill, and I rarely drink wine. Personally, I thing the easiest thing to do is ask for two bills, one for food and drinks to be divided evenly amongst all parties, and one for the wine to be paid separately between the wine drinkers. Of course, somebody has to remember to ask for separate bills beforehand.
Call drinks should also be paid separately.
Thomaso276, I sense from the tenor of your comments that you're aggravated by the fact that the wine drinkers sometimes appear somewhat indignant at your suggestion that they pay for their wine separately, when really they should be volunteering to pay the difference. On this point I agree with you: Wine Drinkers, please don't expect me to pay for your wine, and I won't ask you to pay for my after-dinner cigar.
I rarely have coffee and dessert, but I've long since decided that the peso amounts for these items doesn't justify the effort to aportion the costs.
Thanks,
Jackson
I'd estimate that the vast majority of people drink wine with dinner in Argentina (and many other countries). It's a fundamental part of the meal, not an extra. Thus if you don't drink it I don't see why any special arrangements should be made for you. Split the bill equally. The same goes for an after-dinner coffee - does anyone in this country not drink it?
Should an Argentine visiting the USA ask for deductions from his car rental bill because the standard car has automatic transmission and A/C, which appear to be exotic luxuries to him? Of course not, they are standard features in USA.
However, standard local consumption for an average dinner table of two Argentines is one 30 peso bottle of wine. Now if your two companions consume 3 bottles or 4 full bife de chorizos then you should not have to pay for their being sloths.
Local customs rule.
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Hi Moore,
Actually, the vast majority of Argentinos and Europeans drink wine with dinner, not the vast majority of Americans. Wine is not a fundamental part of everyone's meal.
Regarding your analogy of the Argentino car rental customer, I can tell you this: The Argentino would certainly raise an issue if he discovered that he was paying twice the posted price for a standard car because his bill was averaged in with several luxury car renters.
Thanks,
Jackson
The default should be an even split. If somebody wants something out of the ordinary, they should adjust the check by tossing in the extra cost.
If your wallet or appetite doesn't fit with a split, tell people in advance that you need your own check. If you don't say anything in advance, suck it up and do whatever is least favorable to you.
Amantelondres
06-18-06, 20:08
Who's going to quibble with splitting the bill equally between all of us? We all know we're getting a great deal compared with back home. And we're not just paying for the food but also for the company.
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Hi Amantelondres,
The answer is Me, I would quibble with splitting the bill, and here's why:
When you're on vacation, things are different. For that short period of time while you on vacation, everything is cool, you're focused on having a good time, you're going to enjoy yourself, you're going to treat yourself to all the little things, and you're not going to "ruin" your vacation by thinking about money.
I understand, I've been there too. However, we're not all on vacation. Some of us live here all the time. And if you live here all the time, and you go out to dinner with other guys several times a week, and you never drink wine, you're going to get tired of having your dinner bill doubled by those who seem to consume a bottle with every meal. You're also going to get tired of the attitude some people have that "hey, the wine was on the table and you could have helped yourself but you elected not to, so don't complain..."
Let me put it like this: Suppose you went to McDonalds with a co-worker every day for lunch, and every day your co-worker ordered and consumed TWO Big Mac Meals, and yet insisted every day that you split the bill evenly. How would you perceive the situation after a couple of weeks?
Like I said, the price of beer, apetizers, coffee, desserts, etc. aren't worth aportioning, but bottles of wine are in a category by themselves simply because of their capacity to double the bill.
I'll say this again: You wine drinkers should take the initiative to offer to pay for your wine separately. It's really simple: when the check comes, simply put the cost of the wine on the table and we'll deduct it from the check and then evenly divide the remaining amount.
Thanks,
Jackson
Gentlemen.
My plan at the AMA dinners is to announce I will not pay for somebody's wine. If thats an issue with the wine snobs that want a free ride for their juice on my dime, we can hammer it out but expect a rigid position out of this Scotsman. We are there for comaraderie, not to see who can post the biggest tab, and soak the other diners for subsidizing their meal and drinks.
And Moore, are you the minister of culture? I'll listen to your lectures if you provide a fine bottle of wine to subsidize my education.
Ass, Gas, or cash; nobody rides for free.
Jackpot.
PS: Bring your own g'damn bottle of wine, cheap smacks.
I'm shocked, shocked, to hear that a Scotsman might take a rigid position on being frugal!
I'm equally shocked to hear that a monger is concerned that someone might take advantage of his generous nature to enjoy a glass of wine at a below-market price.
Actually, the vast majority of Argentinos and Europeans drink wine with dinner, not the vast majority of Americans. Wine is not a fundamental part of everyone's meal.[/blue]The vast majority of people in Argentina are Argentines though. Applying the laws of probabilty, the vast majority of dinner companions should be Argentines.
Frankly, I think some of you may be a bit stingy. Let's say I go do dinner with someone that drinks no alcohol and I drink my regular 12 peso half bottle of wine. Maybe he orders desert and I don't (never do), and/or maybe his main course cost 6 pesos more than mine. I don't care and am not going to agonize over a few pesos either way. Lets say we then go to a bar and open a tab, he starts drinking and has 7 Heinekens to my 5. Split the bill even, who cares.
If said person asked me to pay the wine separately then I would. But I'd be thinking "squeak, squeak".
Jackpot, as minister of culture I advise you to start drinking wine like the locals. And stop using the salad fork for the main course.
Mr. Manners
Moore,
I agree with you about all the situations you described above. I would react just like you do: Who cares about counting who had how many beers or the difference between your 1/2 bottle of wine and my 2 beers. However, when you never drink wine, and you are constantly confronted with situations wherein you are at dinner with 6 guys, and three of them drink 3 bottles of wine between them, and the check is 150 pesos for wine and 150 pesos for everything else, you get tired paying for wine you never drink.
Let me put it this way: In the above scenero, I pay an additional $10.00 USD per meal (8.33 for my "share" of the wine, plus the tip) three times a week, which is $1,568 USD per year I'm paying for something I didn't order and I didn't enjoy, which I could instead use to get laid approximately 16 times, or which DH could use to get laid approximately 40 times.
Again, I shouldn't have to subsidize your wine any more than you should subsidize my after dinner cigar.
Of course, if I was here on a two week vacation during which I subsidized the wine drinkers at only 6 dinners, then it would only cost me $60 USD and I wouldn't care because the difference would be just one hand job for Exon."
Thanks,
Jackson
Thomaso276
06-18-06, 22:18
Moore,
These dinner gatherings are almost exclusively American / a few Europeans, AMA meetings or other gatherings. They are not necessarily a gathering of close friends who realize that things will even out in the long run. Jackson makes some good points, as do others. Guys on vacation (especially newbies) have a different approach to these gatherings. Actually with all the info and advice some of them get they should pick up my whole bill!
My observations are that this is not a glass of wine, but at least 2-3 bottles. Some folks are true wine lovers and order some very expensive stuff. I don't sit down and have 50 to 100 pesos worth of Chivas (a real drink!) And then expect everyone to chip in.
You said yourself you never have dessert, as I never drink wine. How you would feel if the deserts that were ordered could add 50-100 percent to the bill everytime you went out with the group. How long would it take you to realize that you were consistently paying 75 pesos for a 50 peso meal.
So far there are some interesting and understandable coments from members. I'll be taking a separate check from now on. Sorry if that hurts anyone's feelings, but I am not going into your wallet with this option nor am I insulting anyone, while some folks think they have the right to go into my wallet because we are in Argentina!
Gotta go, my girlfriend says dinner is ready and do I want ice water or a soft drink with the meal?
I usually drink wine with dinner when on vacation but I am not normally a big drinker. I never drink coffee nor have deserts. While I may not think of it, I think it only fair that those who have any alcohol with dinner to pay more.
Alcohol drinkers can add a lot to the cost of the meal and it isn't fair for others to cover for them.
Perhaps what should be done to make the whole thing easy is for the bill to be split evenly but those who had the wine cover the tip.
Suerte.
Stowe
Folks,
I usually drink wine (in this I agree with Moore that it is part of the European / latin culture, nobody in Italy or Spain would consider a dinner without a glass "dinner") However, I FULLY understand and back the position of Thomas and Jackson, it is not your job to pay my consumption. Next would be, I would expect you to pay my chicas. Sure NO.
I do volunteer to pick up some of the bottles that went on a large table, and I try to be on the safe, read high, side of what I drunk myself. I do not, however, pick up 5 bottles at a table of 12 persons when I myself maybe had less than one. And I remember nights when it was quite easy to keep track, because we were maybe 3 wine drinkers in the whole group who agreed beforehand to share a bottle or 2, and I remember occasions when at the end just a bunch of empty bottles stood around.
2 checks, one for food, nonalc beverages and beer, and one for wine seems to be a solution. And it should be crystal clear, that whoever has a glass of wine in front of himself, is in for a share of the second bill.
Thomas, you know me, and I sincerely hope that it was not me who contributed to your frustration. I think I know at which event it came up. Should that be the case, please accept my apologies and an invitation to a decent shot of Chivas.
El Alemán
Thomaso276
06-19-06, 11:24
El Aleman: I consider you a friend and you have always been very fair and generous with anyone you encounter. In no way does this issue reflect on you. It has been happening for some time with increased frequency involving folks who are complete strangers. I just wanted to be upfront about it for the next outing.
Thanks for the intelligent input. By the way, how does Argentina - Germany sound for a World Cup Championship?
Dancesw/Chicas
06-19-06, 15:04
Dear Friends,
I was a waiter during college and I can tell you that generally, it shouldn't be a problem for a restaurant to separate the items consumed by each customer, as long as you say so in advanced, like when you call to make the reservation.
It gets more difficult for a server to divided the bill out of the sudden when he or she is busy with other tables.
I think in general Buenos Aires waiters are glad to have foreign customers, because they know them as bigger bills and tips than the local customers.
It would also help to ask for a check for wine alone.
DWC
It looks like there's a flaw in this poll because it's not clear what a "group dinner" really is.
If Jackson's organizing dinners for business purposes he shouldn't be complaining about the expense and maybe even underwriting the dinner. If it's a group of people who don't know each other, then people should be getting separate checks and paying their own meals and drinks. But if it's a group of friends then it's comraderie, to say nothing of peanuts in cost when done here in Argentina. Who wouldn't just split the ticket evenly, with the caveat that anyone who's obviously upped the expense should offer to pick up the tip or pay more of the tab.
Of course there's always someone, put on your tin hat Jackpot, who can't see the forest for the trees among friends and brings along his accountant to settle the dinner check.
My two centavos. I wonder what Miss Manners would advise.
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Hi Bacchus9,
I don't organize dinners for business purposes, thanks.
Who wouldn't just split the ticket evenly, with the caveat that anyone who's obviously upped the expense should offer to pick up the tip or pay more of the tab.Actually, that's all that Thomaso is asking for, and I agree.
Thanks,
Jackson
I tend to order cheap stuff like Chicken but I do drink wine. So I come out even or a bit ahead if we divide it all up and I lose if we divide food and wine separately. Still, I think splitting everything evenly except the wine and splitting that amongst the drinkers is a good system. Someone is going to lose under any system except full exact calculation, and that is boring and leads to arguments.
Separating out the one big-ticket item where the same people always get hit is a fair compromise.
More important than this: Jackson never expects any free-ride, but he organizes these events and takes people around a lot, and is gracious in hosting way more than warranted or needed for his website. And for years he provided us with free service. I have quietly covered his part of the tab at times, and I encourage others to do the same at times. He NEVER expects a freebie, but he does live in BA so dinner after dinner out does tax the budget.
I have seen some great guys pick up the tab for 10 of us. Hey, it may be cheaper than a great dinner for 2 at home, you have a higher chance of getting laid that night (although not with dinner companions!). And if you do it gracefully and quietly like Hunt99 has done, you come across like a good guy, not a snob or bigshot.
OK, we'll see how long this stays up before Jackson deletes or I get flamed. And no, I am not his cousin or business partner!
And if you do it gracefully and quietly like Hunt99 has done, you come across like a good guy, not a snob or bigshot.Whatever happened to that guy anyway?
Separating wine and liquor could be a slippery slope because:
1) In the case of wine, consumption could still be unequal.
2) In the case of wine, you still may have an issue with different people wanting to spend different amounts.
3) Those who don't drink alcohol may have two or three waters and a couple of cokes and may in fact spend just as much in beverages. The difference between beer and soda pop, for example, is not nearly as extreme here as it is in the US.
4) 1 and 2 could also apply to beer if ordered in pitchers or in large bottles.
5) Eventually some asshole will say "Well what about the appetizers?" or "Well what about dessert?" The answer here, of course, is to ***** slap them.
The ultimate answer is probably a combination of effective and respectful communication and personal responsibility. So bend over.
In any case, one thing someone should definitely do is make sure the bill is halfway right to begin with because some places will definitely pad the bill and try to take advantage.
That's a good point - the differential between alcoholic and nonalcoholic drinks is much less in Argentina than in USA simply because the demand for alcohol is less. In some cases it is cheaper to drink beer or lower-end wine than coffee at a traditional afternoon (7pm) cafe meeting in BsAs. I've been to several all-inclusive events/parties where the alcohol, often only wine, was included. Most people don't have more than a few glasses. Alcohol is always separate at such events in USA (which is not in Argentina).
Guys, Dickhead is implying that you're tightwads and he's not even a wine drinker. Does that tell you anything?
This wine thing was an issue one of the times I went to dinner with Jackson and the rest of the guys. We all went to dinner at some Italian restaurant and I wasn't too hungry but wanted to go anyway to shoot the shit with the guys. I ended up not ordering an entrée, desert, coffee or soft drink, but I did eat some of the appetizers (we ended up with like 7 appetizers for 10 people) and of course drank some cheap wine. When the bill came it got suggested to separate the wine from the main bill. So I ended up paying for my portion of the "dinner' as well as my portion of the cheap wine. Which I ended up doing.
It's one thing if somebody insists on ordering a very expensive bottle, then of course they should pick that up. But house wine, or one step up from house wine doesn't cost any more than water, soda or beer in Argentina. I just can't believe how cheap some people are here. Split the bill. Get over it. Maybe you pay an extra 5 pesos maybe you save 5 pesos. You look like a jackass sitting there squabbling over 5 pesos.
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Hi Penguin,
I read your report above and I was ROTFLMAO. I can't imangine that you wrote that with a straight face, because I remember quite clearly that in the last two group dinners that you attended, and specifically the dinner at Campo de Fiori, that you avoided the entire problem by leaving early, announcing as you were leaving that you were placing approximately 20-25 pesos on the table to cover your portion of the bill, presumably an amount that reflected the cost of your meal and non-alcoholic drinks. On both ocassions, the actual aportioned bill was approximately $40-45 pesos per person, and on both ocassions I made up your difference as you were already gone.
What's interesting is that the difference between the amount you left (reflecting the cost of your meal and non-alcoholic drinks as per the menu) and the final bill was the wine ordered by some of our group, which illustrates my point. Next time, wait around until we've divided the bill and you might have a different perspective on the situation.
Thanks,
Jackson
Dancesw/Chicas
06-20-06, 13:38
Penguin,
Surely 5 pesos isn't much, however I think they are talking of 40-50 pesos
per occasion.
Flexible Horn
06-20-06, 14:43
I just can't believe how cheap some people are here. Split the bill. Get over it. Maybe you pay an extra 5 pesos maybe you save 5 pesos. You look like a jackass sitting there squabbling over 5 pesos.I don't think it makes any difference to guys who maybe attend 1 or 2 group dinners while visiting BsAs. If I lived in BsAs and attended a lot of these meetings and didn't drink I wouldn't want to be sponsoring some one Else's drink.
I don't think for a minute people are talking about 5 pesos probably nearer 30 pesos upwards and multiply this by a couple of meetings a week, when you live there it soon adds up.
Its not difficult to keep a tab of your own bill, add on a tip if the service warrants it. I usually round it up with any change usually donated to the charity.
FH
Jackson I think you've come up with the right idea to keep the "group dinners" from becoming a pissing contest over the issue of somebody else's drink.
I see you've inserted the idea to announce the option of separate checks at THE BEGINNING of dinner into the poll.
If you do that, as the well suited benevolent dictator, so people either identify they're on the "separate check" plan or the "bachanal dining and drinking" plan where the meal and drinks are pooled, then the waiter can sort it out and everybody gets what they want. And Bob's your uncle!
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Hi Bacchus9,
You're going to have to give the credit to Thomaso as he is the author of the poll.
Separating out the wine is accurate enough for me, separate checks are too much work.
Thanks,
Jackson
Jackson,
You are right, one time I did leave dinner a little early, due to prior engagements. As far as not leaving enough money, I remember at the time thinking I left more than enough to cover what I ordered. But if that wasn't enough I am genuinely sorry and the next time we all go to dinner, I will be happy to pick up your tab.
I still argue that splitting the bill evenly is the best way to go because from my experience cheap wine really doesn't cost much more then any other beverage and it's just simpler. But if that causes a big problem, than I am open to whatever the general consensus of the table is.
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Hi Penguin,
Everything's cool. It wasn't an issue with me, and I would never have mentioned it except for your post.
Thanks,
Jackson
Thomaso276
06-21-06, 00:23
31% of the votes say split the bill evenly. Not exacltly a slam dunk. And I'll bet out of those 15 the majority just love fine Argentine wine. Although I have no way of knowing how the posters voted, based on some of the comments, it seems they indicate that anyone who doesn't want to split the bill is cheap. Let's see, you expect me or anyone to pay an extra 25 pesos or more for your drinks and when I refuse I am cheap? Growing up in NYC we had a term for you guys: Moochers. It was very common for Moochers to call others cheap when they were confronted.
Most readers clearly identified with the problem, these are not issues involving 5 pesos or quibbling over an extra salad. They also noticed that at these dinners about half the table gets a free ride (and buzz) and then they are astonished that anyone would not want to simply split the bill. I can't tell you how many times I have been to these dinners and met several folks for the first (and usually last) time, watched them drink up and then say what a great deal as they prepare to fly back to the States.
Seems like we have a few Moochers who got outed!
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Hi Thomaso276,
Next time you post a poll, select the option to have the poll display who voted for which selection. It's an option you have when designing the poll, but not an option you can add afterwards, otherwise I would have added it as soon as you posted the poll.
Thanks,
Jackson
I think it's a common, yet mistaken, perception among visiting mongers that we resident mongers are wealthy and retired. I think that's part of the issue. Some of us are one and not the other, and some of us are neither. I myself am trying to live on current income from a job that doesn't employ me all year round. Others of us had to retire early for health reasons. Others of us are simply trying to stay down here as long as possible on a finite amount of savings. All of those situations are different from being on a short-term vacation from a full-time US or European job.
What I've chosen to do is limit the amount of times I eat out and not worry so much about the check, as opposed to eating out more and having it be an issue. But I am fortunate in that I can cook and I have a large, well-equipped kitchen. Many smaller BA apartments have tiny kitchens and most mongers couldn't cook their way out of a dry cleaning bag. If you have to eat out a lot this whole thing is much more of an issue.
So if you visiting mongers can just bear all of this in mind, that would be good. Maybe we aren't going to say anything when you order that 90 peso bottle of Chateau Petit Bourgeois, but that's probably not the one we would order. Contribute accordingly and all would be well. Also don't piss off any ex-cops, convicted felons, or drunken Irish, because you could disappear for a very long time.
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Hi DH,
ex-cops, convicted felons, or drunken IrishIt looks like you got all of us. Ha, ha!
Thanks,
Jackson
What is lower, a mooch or a cheapskate? Chicks dig mooches.
I think part of the problem is that many of you don't have normal local habits - you dine often with foreign visitors.
Regardless, if I were dining with Bill Gates I wouldn't expect him to pay more than his share, which would be 50% assuming neither ordered a 25yo bottle of scotch for himself.
Anybody who orders a 16oz steak should also pay for it separately since a bife de chorizo is an extraordinary item in most parts of the world. What might be common in Argentina is irrelevant of course.
You cannot order a 16 ounce steak in Argentina. You can, however, order a 453 gram steak. But your point is well-taken, although not really. What is a "normal local experience," vs. a normal experience for an ex-pat? I think those of we ex-pats who actually worked down here are a distinct minority and a fortunate sub-set who've had more opportunity to interact with the locals. On the other hand, there are a lot of ex-pats who don't even try to meet local people, learn the language, learn local customs, and so forth. That does tend to leave quite a bit to be desired in my personal opinion.
You cannot order a 16 ounce steak in Argentina. You can, however, order a 453 gram steak.Never seen a 453 gram steak on the menu. 400, 450, 350, fucking 720! but never 453. Besides, Argentina uses the metric system, so why should I quote anything in grams?
"Never seen a 453 gram steak on the menu. 400, 450, 350, fucking 720! But never 453."
Again, you have a good point, although again, not really.
"Besides, Argentina uses the metric system, so why should I quote anything in grams?"
Here your logic escapes me. I'm just glad all those years of drug deals forced me to learn the metric system.
At my last group dinner I picked up the check for everybody, wine and all.
That seemed to damp down the arguments.
Thomaso, you were invited, but of course you had other things to do, such as filing your taxes. Overall, I think I offered you the better option. ;)
Thomaso276
06-21-06, 20:15
The government insisted I pay for their wine, even though I complained I didn't drink any! They were very persuasive and left me little choice.
Thinking it over, there is no "right" answer for all circumstances, which is why this issue arised again and again at different stages of life (high school friends, college roommates, work colleagues, buddies, AMA meetings) But I think that there is a pretty clear answer here: divide food equally and divide alcohol between those who consume. That is no better or worse than any other solution. Arguments can be made and have been made for and against all options, including this one. But what the group is ignoring is the most important argument: divide food and cheap drinks equally and divide wine amoung drinkers is the way Jackson wants it.
It should be Jackson's call because he is the one that organizes the events. It guarantees he will not end up behind by even a few pesos, which is the least we owe him for hosting and organizing (I have prior suggested covering him, but that has to be individually elected as he does not even want to mooch)
No solution is fair to everyone except the calculator and exact payment, and that is a pain for the guests and ends up leaving the 'banker' behind because folks invariably forget to include some item or round down too far on the tip. Separate checks produce the same result, but that is usually unacceptable to the restaurant and then you have to cross-divide wine bottle bills.
Even this system can be abused. Hard alcohol / imported or massive quantiy beer should be paid by the person who orders it, but that should be worked out among the drinkers. Leave Jackson out of it.
Anyone that ends up a few pesos behind on this system because they eat cheap food but do drink wine (and I am on that list, so my argument is not based in self-interest) will end up even over the long haul when a guy like Hunt99 quietly picks up the whole tab. If you only end up attending one dinner and you lose 10 pesos, think of it as a gambling loss; you could have randomly picked a dinner where someone elected to treat everyone. Odds are that if you only attend one dinner, you will gain a lot of valuable information.
Jackson, I think you are 100% right to announce your preferred system as the prevailing rule. We have discussed it to death, the poll is a wide split with no consensus, and its your party.
HF
I don't think Tomaso's original post made it clear whether he was talking about group dinners in general (my assumption) or the AMA group meetings specifically.
Thomaso276
06-25-06, 11:27
My thoughts were group dinners in general, which would include AMA meetings.
Before someone jumps in, this would not include any functions at the Mansion. For example, the weekend BBQ's. Whatever the hosts ask for per person is always acceptable and beyond reproach.
I've never been to an AMA meeting but I certainly hope to attend one when I visit BsAs next month.
From my perspective, I don't think Thomaso or Jackson are being cheap. It's more of a principal matter (guys, correct me if I'm wrong)
If someone knows they've contributed to the bill in a substantial way, it should be an automatic gesture on their part to accommodate in some way (as suggested earlier, pay for the whole tip, drop an extra 20 note on the table, and so on, and so on. So it goes, ergo, visa vis, concordantly.
If this gesture is not extended (this only applies when going Dutch, of course) I instantly file that person into the "selfish" category and see THAT person as being cheap. I don't think someone is being cheap for not wanting to pay for something they HAVE NOT consumed. Quite the contrary, someone is being cheap for expecting others to pay for what they HAVE consumed.
Please correct me if I'm wrong as I don't want to speak for others, but this is my feel of the situation.
I look forward to see some of you assholes in July when I visit.
Suerte,
Tin (fellow asshole)
Daddy Rulz
06-26-06, 23:26
Whomever puts the dinner together decides on the rules, then lets the guests know. If Jax wants to say I'm not paying for shit, you guys read my forum for nothing pay my freaking dinner bill, it's within his right. Obviously it's within anybodys right to decline the invitation. If the deal is divide the check by the number people there then thats the deal. Order expensive shit, if you consume the most and evenly split the check your ahead. If the deal is, booze out everybody splits the food then thats the deal.
The only AMA dinner I went to I paid for part of the wine I don't drink and I wasn't whining.
Make sure the payment plan is disclosed, then when somebody b1tches we can all yell RFF and confuse anybody near the table.
Daddy Rulz is convincing: it is the organizer's call. What $ rules apply should be announced by the event organizer in the invitation or at least at the start of the night.
Thomaso's poll was a bit ambiguous as to general group outings or to AMA matters organized by Jackson. I think the choice of offered answers to the poll question as asked depends on how you interpreted the question or which recent posts you were reading. Example: Post #7 (by Jackson) shifted conversation to Jackson's events and invited comment.
Tinman - putting people on a "cheap" list is not helpful, too many folks will never see each other again. And they will have differing assumptions about dividing bills based on what their group of home friends do, so you can come up short without anyone being a jerk.
Have we talked this one to death?
Greetings everyone,
Utilizing the opinions and suggestions offered herein, I have written some standard guidelines for splitting the dinner check.
Thanks,
Jackson
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STANDARD DINNER PROTOCOL
1. Unless otherwise announced in advance, group dinners will generally be held at moderate to medium priced restaurants that are agreeable to all in attendance.
2. Generally, we will order several appetizers that are generally shared amongst everyone.
3. Generally, one or several people may order a desert.
4. Standard food and drink costs, including standard table beverages (water, sodas, beer, wine by the glass, coffee, tea, etc.) appetizers, entries, deserts and coffee, plus a 10% tip, will be equally divided between all in attendance.
5. The cost of bottles of wine will be itemized on a separate check to be paid by those who ordered and / or consumed said wine.
6. The cost of call liquor drinks, after-dinner brandys, and similar speciality drinks, plus a 10% tip, will be paid separately by whoever ordered them.
7. Anyone who beings a female date will be expected to pay 2 shares of the dinner check.
8. Anyone who wishes to opt-out of this plan should announce their desire for a separate check BEFORE we order.
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