View Full Version : Buying a new auto
David Ross
09-16-06, 08:55
In about a month I would like to buy a new auto in Argentina. The various car dealers I've spoken with told me that I do not need a DNI to purchase an auto. I am here like most as a tourist visitor (I use two passports, six months on one and six months on the other per year) however, I should have my temporary residency and DNI in about 2 or three months. I have a few questions:
¿Can I buy a car in Argentina without the DNI?
If I can purchase an auto without the DNI, what documents will I need to present when I do buy.
¿What type of annual taxes will I have to pay?
¿Are there any pitfalls I should be aware of?
¿This will be a cash purchase, how much of discount should I push for?
Thanks
Thomaso276
09-16-06, 10:48
Asking those same questions at a couple of dealerships and receiving the same information should answer your questions. I believe that on Fridays.
La Nacion runs a supplement with all makes and models and their sticker price.
I kept a copy from August 11 for reference. Cars with factories here in Arg. or Brasil may be a little cheaper. Pure imports very expensive. As well, some makes list dollar prices (VW) while other have peso prices (Ford)
Lots of financing deals out there and lots of new cars on the road in the last few months as Argentinos revert to spend your money and the heck with tommorrow mentality.
Agree with the view that buying a car here is sheer insanity. Absolutely no reason for it if you live in GBA. Plus many Argentinos I know have had multiple cars stolen.
I think owning a car in Buenos Aires would be a pain in the ass.
Where the hell do you park it, where do you go with it.
If you need a car for a trip rent it.
PM MAT he owns one and ask him.
Exon
I've had a car in BA, but generally recommend against it.
Parking is not as bad as you think, after 9pm weekdays and throughout the weekend you can park for free in any open space on the street. In most areas that's not a problem.
Going to some places, like Las Canyitas, is much easier in a taxi than a car. It's always so crowded there at night. Instead of driving around for 20 minutes to find an open pay garage 5 blocks from your restaurant, you take a 7 peso taxi ride from Recoleta right to the door.
The only time I miss not having a car is for road trips like Mar Del Plata or Cordoba. Also, amateur girls like being picked up for dates in your personal car. And driving yourself around BA is a great way to learn the layout of that big city.
If you have money to burn, go ahead and get a car. But you can take taxis whenever you want and spend maybe US$100/month. You'll spend multiples of that owning/maintaining/insuring/gas for a new Peugeot 307. Many apartment buildings don't have their own parking spaces, but you will pay about US$15k extra for a space in a building that does.
David Ross
09-17-06, 08:49
To all thanks for the information. I do own an apartment in Las Cañitas that has a garage. I agree that it's much easier to take taxis. The car will be used to go outside of Buenos Aires, ie. Punta del Este, Mar del Plata, Missiones, and to pick -up dates that live in provincia. I agree that driving in Argentina, especially in Buenos Aires, is dangerous (for a population of about 36 million, about 9000 people die from car accidents every year. The USA has ten times the population and only 42,000 people die annually from car accidents, however, in the USA one can die from boredom). I've driven all my life in Italy, Buenos Aires does not scare me.
Just in case, I learned this yesterday, if some expat would like to by a car in Argentina only one's passport number and CDI number (easily gotten from the local AFIP office) are needed.
Thomaso276
09-17-06, 13:07
David,
Remember you have to pay a tax on the car each year, that is why they want a CDI.
I have bought 2 cars in Argentina, one used and one new. I have never had a DNI. I do have a CDI (from something unrelated) and I think I needed that.
The one tip I can pass along is that if you are looking to buy a new car, try to find one that was assembled in Argentina (or one of the Mercosur countries) The price will be a lot closer to what it is in The States.
I owned a couple of cars some time ago.
Since I like boliche hopping around different neighborhoods, having a car for me is mandatory.
Some ballpark numbers:
- Patente (tax): Roughly USD 600/ yr for a new car - USD 250/ yr for a used one, paid every 2 months or yearly with 10% discount (at Capital Federal)
- Insurance: Roughly USD 1000/ yr for full coverage of a new car - USD 400/ yr for a basic coverage of a used car, monthly paid.
- ACA (local version of AAA): USD 15/ mo. You may have the cheapest insurance with ACA-La Caja.
Advertised prices for cars are for cash. There are some "saving plans" where you pay an upfront deposit and then a monthly payment (not sure if the same framework as leases in the US)
The documents required to buy a used car are numerous. The RNPA (national version of DMV) will ask you for proof of "libre deuda" (no pending payments of patente, extraordinary taxes or police tickets) Watch for that. Also, be aware that the police may make you fall into a "stolen car trap" (you buy a car and then the police arrests you because it had been stolen, unless you pay a huge bribe)
Unlike in North America, in South America labor costs for repairing cars are very low, but spare parts's are high.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Daddy Rulz
01-09-07, 00:34
What I keep reading in the papers and seeing on TV is this "So and so was shot to death as they were drug out of their car by highjackers" never have read about it happening on a colectivo, supte or taxi. Mo seems to like his though.
===========================================
Hi Daddy Rulz,
Actually, Mo gets dragged out of his car and assulted all the time, but it usually happens only in certain parks in Palermo.
Thanks,
Jackson
What is the best car to own in BA as far as maintenance costs and low car theft probability?
I am looking into a VW Jetta, Bora, Toyota Corolla or Peueot 307. I have chosen these cars because they seem to be very economic (all are around 60K AR or 20K US) and I see many of them on the street, and will be less of a target for theft.
Regarding insurance, is 1000 US per year an accurate number? Do they have Lo-Jack here in BA? Would a tom tom work here or do I have to get a local GPS system? Does anyone know the cost for a parking space rental here in BA? Most importantly, the D. L issue, I have a US drivers license can I just use that? Or will I have to get either an international one or a local one? And which of those two options is my best option? Will I need to wait until I get my DNI before I get a local drivers license or will my passport and US drivers license suffice for now? I have also been checking out mercadolibre. Com and have seen a few deals, is this website pretty reliable?
Thanks in advance.
Bad
Daddy Rulz
03-18-07, 19:19
I just can't imagine how owning a car would be worthwile unless you lived way the fuck outside of town in one of the countries. Driving here is an absolute *****, parking is worse. Insurance isn't that expensive because they never pay for a fucking thing. Be very careful if you buy a used car because a popular Argentine pasttime in the used car market is passing any tickets, accidents, liens and other assorted problem along with the car.
Living where you live, a parking space is going to be a couple hundred pesos a month, not much but it would take a shitload of taxi rides to equal it.
Then the ever present fear of carjacking. Just a load of fucking fun there, these guys doing that like to shoot a lot and not on Rominas face.
Seriously I would develope a good relationship with a Remis driver who has a nice car and call him when you need one or just feel like being driven somewhere. When you factor in all the cost including the purchase price you probably wouldn't end up upside down for a couple years.
Don't know about the drivers license for sure but I seem to recall a buddy of mine saying if I was driving his car without an international or Argentine one his insurance is out the window. Not 100% sure on that though.
Really not trying to be a dick, I just see it as neverending trouble for very little value but just my opinion.
If you gotta do it, I have a few friends that have those little bitty Fords, they don't seem to breakdown a lot, they are made just outside of town and if somebody snags it your only out a few thousand bucks. They are nothing to brag about, but they provide some comfort, are easy to park (just little bitty fuckers) don't burn much gas and are cheap.
Thanks for the assesment DR, but I AM spending a shit load on cab fair. As I said I am spending on average 50 AR a day. It's adding up to around 200-250 US a month. I would rather spend that on gas and insurance and have the benifit of using a car whenever I wanted.
I agree a taxi is 100% more convenient, but for someone who travels around the city alot on a daily basis it becomes less and less cost effective as the months go by.
I am thinking about a VW Bora or a Peugeot 307, as I said I am thinking about those because at 60k AR, they aren't expensive and they are VERY common here in BA, and they don't look flashy. Everyone has one. Are THOSE models big targets? I would think that the pricier cars would be the biggest targets, maybe I am wrong.
I just think that if I am spending around 200 US a month on cab fair I would much rather have a car than lose out on 2500 US a year on cab fair, in 4 years my car will still be worth something but the 10,000 US + I will have spent on taxi's will be worth nothing, not to mention inflation will probably make taxis a much less favorable long term solution.
I thank you for the advice on used cars, it can be a hassle in the US and I cn imagine it will probably be worse here. So I have decided to buy new, just to not deal with all the things you pointed out. And the whole thing about remis, I would agree, but I would have to say, why don't they worry about car jacking? Just because they are local or are they just used to it?
Bad
Daddy Rulz
03-18-07, 20:58
As a mass transit user I guess I don't think of cabs much from a price standpoint. Colectivos are still.80, but cabs are going through the roof.
Most of the car jackings are out in Provencia so maybe your ok in the city. I'll ask my buddy about your choices, he's on vacation so it may be awhile before an answer.
If your Spanish is good you could always look for an older cop on the street and ask his opinion about the car. Box of Marlboros with 20 pesos in it would probably be a welcomed propina for the info.
To find parking the same little gift for a couple doormen in your area would probably find you an unused parking spot in one of the buildings to lease. It's fairly common in the center if your apartment comes with a spot and you don't have a car to rent it. They are generally a little cheaper than paying by the month at a parking garage but no valet. It's always a trade off on something.
Rock Harders
03-18-07, 21:04
Badboy,
Believe it or not, in the United States, the most stolen car of all time is by far the Honda Accord, which is not exactly a flashy model, and is in fact one of the top 5 best selling cars in the USA. There is a huge market for used parts for these (and other similar models, Camry, Maxima, etc) as once stolen the car is taken to the local "chop shop" and broken down into parts, as the car is worth alot more if sold for parts than if re-sold fully assembled. Also, the commonality of these models and their ubiquitous nature makes the parts much harder to track, as opposed to tracking parts from 1 of only 400 Ferraris sold annually.
Car Jacking, on the other hand, is a completely different animal, as the purpose is to make the score more from robbing the person driving the car than making cash off the car itself. If you are driving a BMW 5 series you are more likely to get car jacked here than driving a Peugeot 307, because to drive a 5 series here (which sell for $80,000 USD give or take) you need to be making some real money.
If you are really worried about car jacking, acquire a handgun and keep it under the seat.
Suerte,
Dirk Diggler
Thanks for the info guys, it seems from what I gather, my choices in cars (VW, Peugeot, Toyota) aren't big targets for car jackings, but they probably are targets for car thieves since the ARE so common. I am still trying to figure out if there is a Lo-Jack system here in BA, because if there is, that plus an alarm and insurance should make me sleep better at night.
I would definitely not spend 80K US on a car, especially here in AR. So I think I am probably safe as far as jacking goes.
Alot of good information guys, and I will look into the car parking situation here in my area. As far as handgun ownership, I thought about it, but I believe I will need a DNI first.
Again thanks, and if anyone has anymore info on navigation (GPS) systems here or Lo-Jack, I would like to know. And if you have any contacts for any car retailers let me know DR. I am looking to purchase within the next month.
Thanks,
Bad
Badboy,
If you want to buy a car and if you can spend USD 20,000-25,000, buy a new one from an official dealer (concesionario) They should provide an extended warranty (3 years or so, including rutinary repairs) so you will get peace of mind.
As of stolen cars, I confirm that what DD said applies for Argentina. It is better that you approach an insurance company or the supervisory official institution for insurance companies (Superintendencia de Seguros) and ask about the most stolen models. My hunch is that those models that can carry GNC are the most stolen ones, but it should be confirmed.
As of car retailer, I used to own a Chevrolet bought at Laprida Automotores (Laprida almost Las Heras, Recoleta) They treated me fairly well respect to warranty and maintenance.
You may need a DNI to get the driver license. In any CGP (Centro de Gestión why Participación, kind of local city hall branch) you may get what documentation is required to get the license (the exams are taken at Av. Roca, close to the car race circuit in Villa Lugano) If I remember well, there is a CGP on Pueyrredon and Beruti, but not sure.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Get an international drivers license at any AAA office next time you're in the USA. Bring your state DL, 2 passport size photos, and 10 or 15 dollars and you'll have it in a few minutes. Argentina police will accept it instead of possibly giving you a minor hassle (20 pesos or less will handle) if you only have a state DL. Its only valid for 1 year but I used my expired one for several and they never noticed. You will get stopped at checkpoints occasionally.
I drove in Argentina for 5 years and dealt with various cops but have no idea how to get a local driver's license Most likely an unnecessary pain in the ass. Though it's hard to believe after witnessing BsAs driving, I think they take the driving tests fairly seriously. Maybe because many Argentine adults have never driven a car.
Thanks for the info, I think I will go the international DL route for now. I will post the link, all I will need is a photocopy of my DL and two passport size photos plus the 15 dollar fee.
http://www.aaa.com/vacation/idpapplc.html?association=AAA&clb_id=212&secure=N
Anyone know about Lo-jack here in BA? Or about good GPS systems?
Thanks.
Bad
Badboy,
If you get insurance with LA CAJA they will provide low-jack for free and your quote will be cheaper with the low-jack. BWY I bought a 307 a few months ago and I had no problems with it but I think you might need a DNI to buy it. Surte
Thanks for the info Sac,
Now that I know I can have Lo-Jack installed here I am not that worried about theft. That plus a good insurance should be all I need.
Thanks again,
Bad
BundaLover
03-19-07, 21:13
Hey Bad,
Why not try to rent one for a month or two and see if its worth it to buy a car in BA? Or why not buy a 5-7 year old car from the provence as opposed to a city car? A 5 year old Toyota is solid.
If BB13 is spending 600-700 pesos (U$S 200-250) a month on taxis, as he says, it is still a much better deal than would owning a car be.
Add up:
Price of car - U$S20,000 at a minimum for a cheap new one.
Price of insurance - At least U$S1,000 per year.
Price of parking - U$S1,000 per year for secured parking.
Price of gasoline - Let's be conservative and say 600 gallons a year - about $1,500
Price of maintenance and repairs - For the first year, maybe 200 dollars. Much more after that.
So for the first year, the cost to own is U$S23,700 at a bare minimum. I think I'd prefer spending 250 dollars a month on taxis. 3000 dollars favorably compares with 23,700 in my ledger.
I appreciate the time you took to try to disuade me Hunt, and you don't make a half bad argument. I would put the number at about 3000 US in expenses a year. Around, like I had said 250 US a month, just about what I spend on taxis these days.
And the suggestion from Bunda about renting a car for a month makes alot of sense also. That might be the deal maker or breaker for me. I will look into that.
Thanks again guys for all the great info.
Bad
Allright, I think this will be my last question on the subject.
I have been checking online with the two top portable car navigation systems in the US, the Garmin 330 and the TOMTOM 910, I have checked online and neither have support software for South America. And only Garmin has city maps for Brazil only.
I would like to purchase a good navigation system, but the dealers don't offer this and I can't find a portable system with South Am support. Does anyone have any suggestions or alternatives?
Thanks in advance,
Bad
Jaimito Cartero
04-17-07, 11:08
Not to sound like a smart ass, but have you considered a map?
So does that mean automobile navigation systems don't work in South America? A Map isn't really what I'm looking for. But thanks for the suggestion though.
Bad
You need software to tell you at which street you are.
Since the locals do not have enough money to invest in systems like you mentioned before, there are few companies willing to invest money in producing a product (map)
You can get a free garmin compatible map at proyectomapear.com.ar Just register and take a look at the help files and forum. You'll then know what device to purchase and how to upload the map.
I've a Pocket PC Phone w / GPS, and I use that map with Garmin Que and GPS Proxy or GPS Gate to fool the device into thinking I own a Garmin GPS 10. The map's VERY detailed, and it covers all of Argentina, routable.
Hope that helps.
Cheers.
Thanks man,
That is exactly what I was looking for.
Thanks for the info,
Bad
BundaLover
04-28-07, 15:28
Great info guys. Badboy I noticed from the 'taxiscams' post that you are still taking taxis. What did you do with your buy vs. Rent decision?
I was going to post my experience, so I am glad you brought it up.
Basically Argentina doesn't have the cars I want. I am looking for either a 2007 Honda Civic EXS, which sells for $27,500 US, or a Volkswagen Vento 2007 2.5 Luxury Tiptronic that sells for $31,000. Now here is the kicker, I went to about 4 VW dealers and 3 Honda dealers, the Honda dealer told me there is a 3-4 month " Entrega " or wait on the Civic, seems the car is very popular and it is very hard to get a hold of. They told me to put a $500 peso sena on it and I can have it in August, they are fucking insane. Wait til August? The same thing happened in the US, when I bought a Prius, They asked me for a $500 dollar deposit and the car would be available in 2-4 months. I did it back then because I really wanted the Prius but for a Civic? They are smoking some seriously big rocks.
As far as the Vento, they told me the same, pay the reserva and wait 30-45 days for the entrega. Now I have been to see them both and the Vento is clearly a better vehicle. Right now I am waiting for the Vento entrega. I was told 30-45 days. Til then I am still taking taxis.
Bad
Are any Honda models even made in Argentina? Fairly sure no. Cars assembled abroad are very expensive, rare, and usually too big.
I recall seeing a very few Accords which I believe are a US$40k+ enormous luxury car for Argentina.
Go for a Peugeot 307 (207 smaller/cheaper) or maybe a Renault Megane. Even the Fiat Siena isn't bad for tight and rough BsAs city driving. Or a base VW.
If you want a Saab or a Pontiac Grand Prix in Argentina you will also wait several months.
Badboy, have you considered buying the VW Bora instead of the Vento. I considered buying the Vento, however I think it's a little too big and a little too flashy for Argentina. What I don't like about the Bora is the lack of side airbags. The way los Argentinos zoom through these side streets the posibility of side hits and head injuries are high. Also, the Bora fits in my garage in Las Cañitas a little better than the Vento. By the way, last time I checked the VW dealer on Libertador (around the 8000 block) had one or two Ventos available. I'm sure you already know this, if you pay in cash you should be able to get around a 10% discount. Suerte.
BundaLover
04-30-07, 00:22
Interesting 10% for a 30k purchase is not chump change. This is hard to believe. In US the dealer doesn't care if its cash or finance. In fact they prefer finance to make a bit of money in addition to the sale. How are the locals buying if not for cash then? 3k is more profit then most dealers make. Can someone explain this to me? Thanks
Interesting 10% for a 30k purchase is not chump change. This is hard to believe. In US the dealer doesn't care if its cash or finance. In fact they prefer finance to make a bit of money in addition to the sale. How are the locals buying if not for cash then? 3k is more profit then most dealers make. Can someone explain this to me? ThanksI'd guess that the finance price is inflated by around 10%.
Cash is king in Argentina for various reasons. Whenever you do anything but take cash on the spot for a material transaction in Argentina you are taking a big risk. Maybe your buyer won't pay you at all and, if he doesn't, you have very little recourse regardless of what the law is. Maybe hyperinflation will render loan repayments essentially worthless a few years from now. Maybe the government will "Peso-fy" all obligations that may be denominated in a hard currency.
Additionally, collecting 10% lower sales price is far outweighed by the 30%+ in income taxes not paid on a cash transaction that is much easier to conceal/falsify for everybody.
I think Moore hit the nail on the head,.
Cash transactions mean less taxes paid on the sellers earnings. Wherever I go in BA, whether I am buying a couch or a car, I am always quoted a higher price for credit card transactions, Cash is king in BA.
Bad
Rock Harders
04-30-07, 07:08
Mongers,
About a month ago I bought two 32" LG LCD tv's for the business that I am involved with. The Musimundo price was $5000 AR for each tv, but in further illustration of "cash is king" I walked out of the place with both tv's for $9000 AR paid in cash. In reality, with the 21% IVA credit that businesses here can get when making purchases, the tv's went for only $7110 AR for the both. Something to keep in mind when making big purchases here, as I negotiated the cash deal BEFORE informing Musimundo it was a business purchase that would need an official factura (my guess is they would have given me a bullshit factura and kept the 21% for themselves)
Suerte,
Dirk Diggler
Dick,
10% discount is not bad, however I get a 15.5% discount on LCDs, (plus I get to flirt with the Samsung representatives who look like models but don't know anything about LCDs) computers, and printers. However, small items like telephones I only get a 10% discount. If anyone is buying items like LCDs just go to Fravega on Cabildo y Mendoza and keep sending the salesman back to talk to his manager to increase the discount. The salesman will work hard for you, he is motivated to make sales because his pay is a combination of a low monthly salary and commissions. If you don't speak castellano, just ask for a salesman who speaks english (usually there is one who speaks a few words of english) Suerte.
BundaLover
05-01-07, 02:50
So is everyone in agreement that with a cash sale the retail business hides the paperwork from the tax collector and passes up to 21% discount to the buyer?
I can see this working for a few smaller items sold in volume but how the hell do you hide an automobile? Presume it was imported, has documents, ID numbers, needs to get transferred to you etc. How do you transfer a newly imported car AND the dealer doesnt have any records of it? I think we need Dickheads or Jacksons help with this one.
Flat screen TV's,
I would say your best bet is to get in good with a mayorista, you know, the person who sells the tv's to the Fravegas and so on. I know some people that can get me up to a 25-30% discount on the tv. You are basically cutting out the middlemen. I have learned that the best way to get things cheaper is to eliminate the number of hands getting paid on your transaction. If you buy at Fravega, you are feeding not only the corporation, but the manager and the salesperson. If you buy directly from the mayorista, you cut out all those hands,. PS, this works for cars as well;)
Bad
BTW, I will stay away from discussing tax evasion online and so should you. ;)
Ok,
I finally bought a car, took forever to find a dealer that actually had one on hand, most dealers give you the run around that might last months, so I went with a large dealer that had a few available. I didn't get my first choice in color, if I were to have waited I would have gotten it by July. Basically there is very little to no haggling for popular brand new cars. It just doesn't exist, they pretty much just give you the take it or leave it line. I was still able to shave off a little off the top. You can buy a car without a DNI, but you will need your passport, a CDI, and a constancia de domicilio and or a utility bill in your name, this is mostly for yearly tax collection. Once you reserve the car, make sure they give you the chassis and motor number, aka the VIN number. And have them write that on the Reserve, meaning they have the car and you should get it within 48-72 hours.
Now the process is pretty simple, you contact a dealer, you see the show room models, you make an appointment to go to their depot and see the actual model you will purchase, you leave a 200 dollar reserva, then you make arangements to make payment through their local bank, they give you the account number and you make payment to the account for the total price. You can also pay in cash at the dealer, if they allow that. Once that is done, you go to the dealer with the reciept from the bank and you speak with the administration, you sign some paperwork, they get the ball rolling on the entrega and the administrator will try to squeeze a few extra bucks out of you. This one tried to tell me the price had gone up 500 pesos, I told her to take a hike, and either respect the sale price or give me my money back, but there was no chance in hell I would pay one cent more. They then hand you over to the accessory department, where they try to sell you ll kinds of extras, like tinted windows, laminated windows, navigation, chrome accents and so on. I must admit, I accepted some extras. Then they wheel you over to the Insurance guy. Since I already knew the insurance guy I didn't have to deal with him. That was about it, you will recieve the car within 48-72 hours later, with all the accessories added, fully taxed, titled and insured. Also remember you will pay the accessories at the moment you pick up the vehicle, you will also pay any extra licensing you haven't already paid. The insurance company will call you a week later to schedule the Lo-Jack installation. Thats about it.
Ok now onto a couple specifics, The insurance company most dealers work with is LA Caja www.lacaja.com.ar I think, They DO NOT insure expats with NO DNI, they will not do it because they can't do it, since they don't have the system set up for it. They offered to insure that car under a relatives name or maybe an Argentine friends name, the catch with this is, if your car is stolen or wrecked, the insurance will pay out to your friend or relative, meaning your argentine " friend" will be given either the total value of the vehicle or a brand new vehicle IN HIS NAME, then he will have to transfer it to you. This can be risky, so avoid that. Mapfre,www.mapfre.com.ar, a much bigger and better insurance company specializes in insuring " extranjeros ", or foreigners. Though their insurance method is different, La Caja has either Liability insurance that is about .33% of the total price monthly payment, and then they have full coverage in 10% , 5% ,2% and 1% deductible forms which are increasinly more expensive in monthly payments but the deductible decreases. Mapfre, has a liability only insurance or a flat 2500 AR deductible for the monthly cost of .66% the value of the vehicle. Good stuff.
In all I found the whole buying process pretty easy, and with Mapfre, the insurance process was just as easy. The fact that many dealers didn't have the car in stock was very frustrating but I find that the case with just about everything I purchase in BA.
Bad
Badboy, just a little clarafication on what you wrote:
"Mapfre, has a liability only insurance or a flat 2500 AR deductible for the monthly cost of 2% the value of the vehicle. Good stuff."
If I understood, then the monthly cost for insurance on a US$30,000 car is US$600. I'm sure I'm not reading your statement correctly.
When I step out of my apartment in Las Cañitas and see a muchacho driving around in a brand new Vento I'll have to assume it's you. Suerte.
You are right Fac,
I fucked up, for some reason I was thinking 2% of 30,000 pesos. Well basically the insurance costs .66% a month for full coverage, lo-jack and a $2500 peso deductible on your vehicle damage.
Bad,
PS, thanks for pointing out my mathematical genius;)
Congrats Badboy- I am trying to figure out. What brand of car did you buy?
Regards.
Smuler
I have an important question for all the long term BA residents or even some BA locals. I bought a car about a month ago and I have a dilema, the insurance company has given me the option to install a " recuperador " either Lo-Jack or Ituran, I have heard that Ituran is better and is generally used for higher end vehicles, so I am edging towards that one. But I have also heard some horror stories about the installation guys basically gutting your eletrical system and doing a half assed job putting it back together.
My question is in two parts, first of all, which one do you think is better Lo-Jack or Ituran? Second do you really think getting either one is required. My insurance costs me the same either way and I have full coverage so if my car is ever stolen and not found, the company will buy me a new 0 Km vehicle. So is it that important to have a system like this in BA?
Bad
Badboy,
I have Ituran and never had any problems whith them. The instalation was fast and simple with no problems. I also heard that most people with VW and Peugeot have Ituran and not Low-Jack. I have insurance with LA Caja and its more expensive without it there.
Saludos,
Sac
Rock Harders
11-20-09, 00:32
Mongers,
I very recently purchased a 2009 0km Renault Kangoo 2 Sportway 1.5 Diesel for my business so I figure it is worthwhile to go over the buying process for the benefit of others.
First, I went to a Renault sales office (Automotores, SA) on Avenida 9 de Julio to order the car I wanted. I knew what the price would be from the internet so there was no haggling involved. Essentially, you tell them the vehicle you want, and they look on their list to see if they have one available. My particular vehicle was sitting at the factory in Cordoba. You have to pay a 1000 AR deposit at the sales office and then go to a bank (in this case Banco Frances) to deposit the rest of the sales price in the account of the dealership. After depositing the money, I went to Automotores central office in Palermo to fill out all kinds of paperwork, all the more complicated because I was buying the vehicle in the name of the company, so I had to prove I was authorized to purchase a vehicle in the name of the company (even though I paid cash for the car)
After dealing with the paperwork, I walked over to the La Caja insurance desk, which was very straightforward and simple. After everything was finished, I was told I would receive a call by the end of the following week (this was on a Friday) when my car would be licensed, insured, etc and ready for pickup. The vehicle had to be shipped from Cordoba and the registration and license plates had to be ordered which apparently is a process in Argentina.
Sure enough, the following Friday, I get the call and went to pick up the vehicle in Palermo. The pickup process is simple; they issue the vehicle registration and insurance papers, the mechanics put on the license plates, and you have to pay the first 4 months of registration.
Keep in mind that the vehicle registration costs 5% of the value of the vehicle per years, for the first 10 years.
Suerte,
Rock Harders
A friend, who has a DNI and speaks like a Portenos, was involved in an accident that probably totaled her car. She needs to buy a car, preferably a new one. The transaction will be in pesos after exchanging dollars at the blue rate.
I previously, read on this forum, another thread about a forum member contemplating buying a car in Argentina utilizing a car loan. I use the forum search function but was unable to find that thread.
I would appreciate it if: (1) some one would direct me to the aforementioned thread (2) whether it is cost effective due to inflation to buy a car with a card loan; (3) any stories, helpful information etc. About buying a new car in Buenos Aires.
Daddy Rulz
03-30-13, 14:34
A friend, who has a DNI and speaks like a Portenos, was involved in an accident that probably totaled her car. She needs to buy a car, preferably a new one. The transaction will be in pesos after exchanging dollars at the blue rate.
I previously, read on this forum, another thread about a forum member contemplating buying a car in Argentina utilizing a car loan. I use the forum search function but was unable to find that thread.
I would appreciate it if: (1) some one would direct me to the aforementioned thread (2) whether it is cost effective due to inflation to buy a car with a card loan; (3) any stories, helpful information etc. About buying a new car in Buenos Aires.
http://www.argentinaprivate.com/forum/showthread.php?7505-Buying-a-New-Car-in-Argentina&p=431047#post431047
Recently, we've been contacted by many sales persons wanting to sell us a new ("0km") car, both via SMS on our cell phones, as well as via calls made to our home phone (land line). We have been offered payments on a new car as long as 80 months, interest free.
I've owned a car here for the last five+ years. I paid cash for it, used. It's a 1999 Megane 5-door, really not a bad car. I have ridden it hard and put it up wet many times, so to speak, and really it has served me fairly well. But it's now some 14 years old, about 250K kilometers on the odometer, and I've been spending more and more money on keeping it running. My latest frustration is an engine coolant leak that I've had repaired 3 times now, and like all things Argentine, I'm going to be going back for a fourth visit soon as I find that once again I need to be very cognizant of the need to put water into the radiator before I go anywhere to make sure it doesn't overheat.
A new car is very tempting for me.
However, having lived here for the past 6+ years, I knew there wasn't a chance in hell that whatever they had to offer would be advantageous enough to make me want to buy a new car unless I had cash for the full price of the car already in my hand to offer them in exchange. But my wife, being Paraguayan and not as sophisticated as I when it comes to making big-ticket purchases (as anyone else probably is, who comes from a country where credit is relatively cheap [rightorwrong] and people are mostly honest and at least try to pay their bills when it comes to stuff bought on credit) , she was certain we should go check the latest offer that had come in from Ford. Just to make sure. She wasn't sure if I was just being grumpy when I told her it would be a waste of time, or if I really knew what I was talking about. I couldn't give her a specific reason, other than I knew that interest rates on financing would be out-of-this-world expensive, but since they were offering no interest for 6. 67 years (!) I was finding it hard to debunk her optimism with any real facts.
So we went to go talk to Ford today.
Of course, in typical Argentine fashion, the salesman with whom my wife had made an appointment was not in today. Nor, it seemed, did anyone in the office even know who he was. So we had to wait some 10 minutes while they found someone who could talk to us, while just about everyone else sat staring at computer screens, or stood talking to their buddies around the water cooler.
Finally, a young man (easily early 20s) came and introduced himself to us. He asked us what we wanted and I told him we were looking for a car and wanted to see how the promotions that Ford has would work for us. He took us right into an office on the second floor, without even going to the showroom to see what sort of car might interest us.
The first thing he asks is how much we're willing to spend per month. I told him I didn't want to talk payments until I knew what I wanted to buy and had an idea of what kind of prices we were talking about, how payments worked, how financing worked, etc. He looked a bit taken aback at this, but recovered quickly and led my wife, my sister-in-law and myself downstairs to the showroom.
I won't go into much more of this particular part. He got me into a couple of cars, hoping to make me fall in love and sign away my life, like any salesman in the world will try to do. He threw out a lot of talk about payments and costs that, quite frankly, I didn't understand at all at that moment, never having looked at buying a new car here before.
We looked at a Ford Focus, a Ford Fiesta and one other model that now I don't remember the name of. 4-door sedans and 5-door hatchbacks. 1.6 and 2. 0 liter engines. Prices ranged from 106K to 130K pesos.
So we went to the office again and started to talk seriously. I had to ask him many times about some of these things because the concepts were so foreign to me that I wasn't sure I was understanding. And in some cases, it turned out, I was not! To make a story that's already running long shorter, here's the basics on buying a new car in Argentina:
You have three options for buying a new car here:
1) Pay cash.
2) Finance.
3) Layaway (sort of).
I already knew #1 was really the only way to go. It is the cheapest and easiest and most straight-forward way to do it. At the blue rate from dollar to peso, the range goes from roughly $15. 3K to $18. 5K USD. Not really bad for the value. It's relatively a lot of money, and I have bought cars in the States from $12K to $22K (and leased more expensive) , but have never bought with cash a new car. I never had that much money at one time that I wanted to lay out on a car.
And yet still, this is the best method for Argentina.
#2 is a nightmare. The only thing that was offered for financing was 30% down payment at a 30% interest rate. I almost laughed at this and of course quickly discarded it. I forgot to even ask what terms the note could have. Even two years would be way too expensive at 30% It is not only very expensive to get, but also very difficult to qualify for a loan anyway.
Which leaves method #3, a sort of Layaway program, if you don't like the cash option.
I'm talking US phrases here, but I'm sure many countries have (or have had in the past) stores that use layaway. In the US it's usually stores selling clothes, toys and appliances that offer this (although with such easy credit nowadays for all I know no one offers layaway any more!). You choose what you want to buy, make a down payment, and make payments until you have paid the full amount and can walk away with the merchandise.
Here, they sell cars in a similar fashion. The payments must be made every month, and the "loan" is indeed interest free. It almost sounds good until you really start looking into it more closely. It took me about half an hour to get things worked out.
The nice thing about this is that you don't have to wait until you have paid the full amount of the car to actually take possession of it and start using it. You do, however, have to make a certain amount of payments (unless you get lucky. More about that in a moment) before you are able to drive it away. I understand that perfectly, makes good sense.
BTW. All of this was calculated on a basis of 80 monthly payments. I'm not sure if things get squeezed doing proportionately if, for example, you only want a 24 month period to pay for the car to begin with.
You have to make 24 payments, all things being equal, before you can take possession your car. There are actually three ways you can take possession before you make the actual 24 payments:
1) Win a lottery (yes, seriously). In that case, those few who are lucky enough to win the draw receive their car immediately, although of course they have to continue making all the payments. But the good thing is they actually get the use of their car quicker. They make a drawing once a month.
2) Win a bet (yes, seriously). In this case, you choose an amount to put down as a "bet" (the salesman likened this literally to sitting down at the casino and betting on the roulette wheel, but really fits more closely a silent auction). If the amount you put down is the greatest for your car type, over those who put down money on the same car type, you "win" and can take possession of your car immediately. Of course, as makes sense, you still have to pay off the balance as agreed, on a monthly basis. The salesman suggested that $20K to $30K was appropriate to try to "win the bet." The good thing here is that at least the "bet" goes to your principal, it's not lost.
3) As far as I could figure, this one was a "special promotion" that they only offered to a certain amount of people each month. Upon paying 7 months of your 24 month "layaway period payment" you could elect to pay the amount of the rest of the 24 months and take possession of your car. This could ONLY happen in the 7th month. You couldn't just decide at the beginning that you were going to pay the full 24 months and take possession then, you couldn't decide at 10 months that you would go ahead and pay the following 14 months. It had to happen in the seventh month.
Now, I thought all of this was a bit complicated, but OK, not a terrible deal overall. I was actually almost tempted, thinking I could possibly win the lottery (I wasn't going to do the "bet") or wait until my 7th month to pay the rest of the 24 months and take possession of the car right then, and then continue paying at whatever monthly rate I decided I wanted to extend the layaway payments.
But something wasn't right, I realized. And I was correct. TANSTAAFL (for you Robert Heinlein fans).
On further questioning, I learned that the price of the car is NOT FIXED until you have MADE THE LAST PAYMENT. Not the last payment in the layaway period of 24 months, but the actual last payment until the car has been paid off. At that point, the salesman pretty much admitted that it was nothing more than a savings plan. That didn't pay interest. In fact, you were free to stop paying at any time and you would receive your money back. Well, heh, not all of it, but 98%
Every month that you paid, you paid on the projected future cost of the car. As he stated, the Ford Fiesta that was the cheapest of those cars we looked at, had increased in price over the last year "only" (his words) a bit more than $12, 000 pesos! That only meant an increase in monthly payments over the last year of a bit more than $100 pesos a month. Apparently not a problem to the Argentine way of thinking about money!
Of course at a flat-line increase over, say, six years of payments (BTW. The payments for the cars we were looking at using this layaway plan over 80 months ran between $1200 and $2000 pesos a month) , the price of the Fiesta would increase by as much as $60, 000 pesos by the time you paid it off! And that's if you believe in flat-line increases here.
I haven't even mentioned licensing taxes (3% of the purchase price of the car due each year, can be paid monthly) and insurance (at least $500 pesos a month, but probably more like 700-800 according to the salesman after pressed).
Anyway, as I told the salesman, I would rather save my money at something like $3000 pesos a month and pay cash all at once than give my money to Ford (or any other dealer. They all do this) to use for free and have no hedge whatsoever against inflation during that time. In fact, I'd go by a cheaper used car instead of a new one, that the owner isn't so worried about recuperating his production costs against inflation.
BTW. As we were leaving and going down the stairs to exit the building, the office above where the salesmen were erupted into cheering, clapping and a lot of laughing. We overheard something like ". Foreigners" and "way to go, Hernan" (our salesman's name) in the shouts. Seems like he had us on speaker phone while we were talking. Can't prove it, but.
Daddy Rulz
04-20-13, 02:44
This isn't really about buying a car, its for after you have the car.
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