View Full Version : Transferring Money to and from Argentina
There are many threads related to money on the board but I have not found any information regarding transferring money into the country (please advise if I have missed posts on this topic). I am about to lease an apartment and will most likely have to pay 2 years advance rent, which is over US$10k. Surely other guys have needed funds like this as the rent prepayment is very common. How does one get the funds into the country, other than carrying the money in an envelope from the US? ATM cards work fine here but with a $300/ day limit I'd need over a month to withdrawl that amount of cash. Western Union % fees are ridiculous. Even with a local bank account, you must initiate the transfer in person from the US, and I have no immediate plans to be there. Advice?
There are many threads related to money on the board but I have not found any information regarding transferring money into the country (please advise if I have missed posts on this topic) I am about to lease an apartment and will most likely have to pay 2 years advance rent, which is over US$10k. Surely other guys have needed funds like this as the rent prepayment is very common. How does one get the funds into the country, other than carrying the money in an envelope from the US? ATM cards work fine here but with a $300/ day limit I'd need over a month to withdrawl that amount of cash. Western Union % fees are ridiculous. Even with a local bank account, you must initiate the transfer in person from the US, and I have no immediate plans to be there. Advice?Do the same thing you would in the states, give them a cashiers check. This is guarenteed funds and you have a receipt. I paid a large sum in cash once (in BsAs) and they wanted to record the serial number of every bill in case any were returned to them as counterfiet! What a pain in the ass, Any one who is legit will accept a cashiers check.
ComeOnDown
07-18-05, 10:57
If your future landlord will not accept cashier's check then you can do what I did. I transferred US$ 8,000 to the account of my foreign exchange agent and got the money in cash after 24 hours.
Here is how it works. I transferred the money from my US bank account to their account with Bank of America in New York. After they have verified that the money was indeed transferred I went to their Buenos Aires office and received the money minus their commission. They charge 1% commission - so for the US$ 8,000 that I transferred I was only charged US$ 80, not bad compared to Western Union's exorbitant commission charge.
The name of the foreign exchange office is:
FOREXCAMBIO S. A.
Telephone no.: 4010-2000
Address: M. T. De Alvear 540
C1058AAF Capital Federal
Gandolf's information is inaccurate. "Any one who is legit will accept a cashiers check." That is totally wrong. Most people here will not take a cashier's check or a check, money order, traveler's checks, etc. There are exceptions to the rule but take it from me. I deal with real estate transactions every single day. Cash is king here. A few weeks ago I bought a house for around u$s 500,000. Guess what? They only would accept cash (as usual) and they sat and counted every single bill. They will give you back bills that have a rip in it or even if there is a pen mark on the bill.
I am buying on average 1-2 apartments per week. Out of all the millions of dollars worth of apartments I have purchased, many owners had an account in the USA/UK/Europe/Uruguay and they still wanted the cash. Only 1 deal out of dozens they allowed to do it via a wire transfer. The rest wanted cash. In this system of getting cheated, conned and lied to by their government and even the banks, few locals trust anything but cold hard cash. Also, there is a cost of bringing u$s here and they would rather you pay the fee. The 1 time where they allowed a wire transfer it was an American that owned the apartment and an American that was buying the apartment.
There are many money transfer firms throughout town. Just make sure you use a reputable company. I have heard horror stories first hand from people. Even reputable banks here have sometimes taken weeks to get the money. They are playing with the "float" and making the money on the interest. KNOW who you are dealing with. Your u$s 8,000 is relatively a small transaction but still a lot of money to lose if you're using someone that isn't dependable. Most of these money transfer firms charge a set fee like $25 or so plus a % (usually 1% - 1.5%)
There are a lot of bit players in this market. Again, make sure you know who you are dealing with. Do they have an office? Many just are private people arranging these transactions. You are wiring your money to their account in the USA, UK, Switzerland or Frankfurt. Then they will deliver you the cash. Remember in this business, past performance is no guarantee of future results. I know of some people that used a person/company because their local friend told them it was safe and they got burned. You are wiring money into their account and once you do it's a done deal. No cancelling it. You are putting a lot of faith in this person/company so make sure you use a company that is legit and has an office and not just operates with homemade business cards and their cellphone.
Many private banks now won't do business with you unless you come from a referral from one of their clients. The government here is keeping a closer eye on money flowing into the country.
Good luck.
Saint
Moore,
What Saint says is true - it is backed by stories I got told by my B:A. Lawyer, who does a lot of real estate things. He told me that it is not unusual to have bags full of cash on the table of his conference room when papers are signed.
This leads to 2 advices:
- small amounts - and $USD are small in this context - just bring in from the States in cash.
- larger amounts (real estate transactions) - a trustworthy person might be your lawyer. I did it this way once, and there was no commision, on the other hand he did all the contract work and thus got a good fee.
Probably the only persons accepting checks or bank-to-bank transfers in Argentina are businesses who do regular export business, first, because they are forced to do so by regulation, and second because their foreign export customers just won't do it any other way. And these businesses don't only maintain accounts in Argentina.
2 centavos.
El Alemán
Moore,
Larger amounts (real estate transactions) - a trustworthy person might be your lawyer. I did it this way once, and there was no commision, on the other hand he did all the contract work and thus got a good fee.
El AlemánDoes this mean you transferred the money directly to your lawyer's account?
Stormy,
I'm not sure when El Aleman made this transaction. Maybe it was before the crash? Anyway, trust me on this. There is no FREE way of getting u$S here without paying a fee. The only way is carrying it on a plane and bringing it on -- which many, many people do. It's not the safest thing and I don't advise it but it's the one FREE method.
Every u$s that gets transferred to Argentina via a legit bank gets "pesofied". They don't do it at the current exchange rate either. Example, if you are transferring you$s 100,000 here and the exchange rate is 3:1 they might give you 2.95: 1. So instead of 300,000 pesos you would get 295,000 pesos. So even with people like El Aleman that thought they weren't paying a "commission" they were. Maybe the laws changed since he made his transaction. I'm not sure. Even if you have a u$s account here and transfer from your u$s account abroad, they still pesofy it. Keep in mind that almost all real estate transactions here are in u$s so not only does it get pesofied but you have to get it converted back to u$S and guess what? The banks give a not so good rate on that as well. As I mentioned, there is a cost of getting u$s here.
Not only is it "not unusual" for cash to be used in transactions dealing with real estate. It's the norm. Primitive? Yes. But it's how things are done here. As I've mentioned to my consulting clients on a daily basis. Have a good attorney and make sure you can fully communicate with him. I've seen a lot of good people cheated and conned. Usually by a lawyer. In every instance, the person could not speak fluent Spanish and the lawyer couldn't speak English. Would you use an attorney that didn't speak English on an all cash deal in the USA? Exactly! Why would you do it in another country? Don't let the fact that you are in a foreign country change the proper way to do business. I'm in no way suggesting an attorney that speaks English won't try to con you but at least you can fully communicate with your attorney. This is not like the USA where things are orderly. Order here is NOT the norm. Make sure you know exactly what is going on.
Make sure that with any financial transaction that takes place you don't lose your common sense. It shouldn't matter whether you are doing business in the USA, UK, Argentina or Africa. Use your same common sense. The safest methods I have used are legitimate money transfer firms.
Here in Argentina on all cash deals there is very little to no room for errors. If this post scares some sense into you that is a good thing. Those that do a lot of business here in Argentina or that have lived here before or are natives know what I'm talking about. I can give you example after example of the horrible way the locals do business and the people that got cheated by not having good people that know what they are doing. I'm sure I pay my attorneys, accountants, etc. more than the average professional here in Argentina but guess what? They were all educated in the USA or the UK and they are the best in the business. It's helped me avoid problems or getting conned.
Good luck.
Saint
Saint,
Thanks for the information and clarification. I have long been out of intentions to move any large sums to Argentina in any fashion, though I know others do and only wish them the best of luck. Your advice is particularly useful here and I think will serve some of the crowd well.
Saint,
My transaction was end of 2003, after the crash. And, one thing is particular, while the price was negotiated in Dollars, the seller needed pesos, because he intended to use the money out of the transaction to pay tax debits. So, the "pesofication" was not THAT deal.
And, my Lawyer is a native speaker of my own language. The same goes for my accountant / tax consultant. I agree, don't do anything with people you cannot communicate without any problems.
El Alemán
Thomaso276
08-02-05, 22:12
This post is not intended to insult anyone on the board. Yesterday I went to FOREXCAMBIO S. A. With my spanish speaking girlfriend and explained I wanted to get 5g USD here in Argentina. The gentleman behind the counter gave me a page of instructions which were sorely lacking in specifics. Anyhow, he explains that I transfer the money from my bank in USA to their account in USA. I then call him a few days later to confirm that the money has arrived and I go to their office and retrieve my money. I mention the 1% commission and he verbally confirms - but it is not in writing. The paper says their account is with American Express Centurion bank in Salt Lake City. My first alarm goes off because another member said they used Bank of America. My second alarm goes off when I do not get any sort of customer ID. Finally I notice the bank account number is 710.319. There are no account numbers broken up with a point in the USA. Alarms are going off all over the place.
This morning I spend a few pesos calling the bank located in Salt Lake City, Utah. I had confirmed via the internet that the routing number is correct, but the pleasant, service oriented USA bank employee (what a change of pace) is kind enough to talk to me even though I am not a customer. I explain how the system works when living here in Argentina on how to receive dollars from the USA. She says there are no accounts in the name of Forexcambio and the number for the account I have makes no sense. I agree. She puts me on hold to talk with someone else.
When she returns she advises that they located the account by dropping the point and just entering 710319. She also explains that the account is held by the American Express Centurion Bank in New York City - not in Utah.
I wonder what would have happened to my money if I had simply wired it to Salt Lake City? Overall a very unprofessional experience. After living here for almost three years I can clearly state that the financial aspect of Argentina is a joke. Just about everything else is perfect for me.
Tonight I spoke with a neighbor who is a retired physician. He recommened a cambio called Giovinazzo located on Sariemento and gave me the name of a contact. I will post the results soon.
The strange money transfer process requires a leap of faith, unless you want to go to a regular bank. If you go to a regular bank, they may not want to deal with you unless you are a resident. Assuming you find one that will deal with you, and I could not do so, then by all reports you will effectively pay high commissions (by changing dollars into and then back out of Pesos, at not so great rates) You will do a lot of paperwork. And (worst of all, as it could jeopardize your deal) you sometimes have to wait and wait and wait for the money to "hit" your account.
Per Saint's research, most people who go with traditional banks end up regretting it.
If you go the informal route, you will end up wiring money to some numbered account outside Argentina. Yick. You will find it bizarre, because it is bizarre. But you can greatly reduce risk by going in under the express recommendation of your real estate broker or of someone like Saint, and if big money is involved (like for a home purchase) by making sure that the money people know you have a good lawyer watching everything.
If your broker sets up the money transfer, risk of theft logically goes way down. Think it through: even if the private banker / money mover is not honest, and I have no reason to suspect that, it would be smarter for them to rip off someone who just walked in than someone who was referred by a regular source of business doing hundreds of transactions per year, particularly if there is a lawyer looking over things.
HF
Hobby Fan is exactly correct. It's a leap of faith if you don't know who you are dealing with. I talk to people every week that had problems with the company they used or were given a wrong account number, wrong corporation name, wrong city or bank name. Remember that once your bank sends the money it for the most part can't be undone. Go with people that not only a friend has told you they used and had no problems but someone that has been around a very long time.
The problem these days is it's getting harder and harder to become a client at a private bank. The really solid ones don't want any new clients unless you get referred by a VIP client.
This is one of the most frustrating things about Argentina. The level of difficulty getting $US here.
Bangkok Dave
08-08-05, 15:14
.
The problem these days is it's getting harder and harder to become a client at a private bank. The really solid ones don't want any new clients unless you get referred by a VIP client.
This is one of the most frustrating things about Argentina. The level of difficulty getting $US here.Anyone want to explain why this is? I thought doing business was what banking was all about and that Argentine banks would be glad to get $US.
Dave
Ok. I can see that most people have really problems to transfer money to Argentina from other countries.
I think that the best choice for transferring funds (I'm argentinian and was the some problems) is:
First: Talk with your bank, to pre degree its operation.
Second: Come to Argentina with some travelers check (yes yes I know the fee no way) to can have some of cash into Argentina.
Three: Go to the office of your bank. (if your are customer of WAMU, your loose.) Talk with some people into de branch of your bank in Argentina and say that you want to transfer many from your account in your country.
The comision or fees. Here. Are some times high. Why? I don't know.
I have tranfered from accounts banks from USA an Spain, and no have problems (if you pay the fees). The thing is that you must say that this tranfer found is for Family Help, this type of tranfer founds have a less fee from the table of fees. If you tranfer alot of mony to do some operation like buy a apartment, car, etc. etc. etc. You must pay high fees.
Is better if you walk with $USD into your pocket, and not $USD if you show $US from your pocket, the people like take a advantage.
Is good if you know to stay here for a long time (more than 6 months) that you open a local account bank (savings account is very good) and the money that you tranfer from your account bank put into there (if is a lot at money, not put all them) and walk on the street with a local debit card.
Sorry for my poor english but I have only aproved ESOL Level be:)
Does anyone have experience with moneygram? A local told me that he is getting cash transfers here from USA, USD to USD (not into pesos and then back into USD and losing on the exchanges) I was looking at the site and the fees seem quite reasonble.
Ive never used a service like this or Western Union (very expensive) but my understanding and bank experience is that money coming into Argentina always has to be converted by law into pesos on arrival. Are these services possibly not subject to this rule?
One Tree Hill
03-09-06, 03:12
Moore,
Due to my ATM card getting eaten, I had money sent to me via Western Union. I had the option of receiving it in the equivilent AR pesos or in USD. My choice.
Does anyone have experience with moneygram? A local told me that he is getting cash transfers here from USA, USD to USD (not into pesos and then back into USD and losing on the exchanges) I was looking at the site and the fees seem quite reasonble.
Ive never used a service like this or Western Union (very expensive) but my understanding and bank experience is that money coming into Argentina always has to be converted by law into pesos on arrival. Are these services possibly not subject to this rule?
Moore,
Not sure what the legal position is, but whenever I transfer funds (other than the occasional ATM withdrawal) its from my bank to an exchange house here in Mar del Plata and they always give me the dollars / euros / pounds I transferred.
Does anyone have experience with transferring funds OUT of Argentina? I have a US$7k rental deposit coming back and would like to xfer it back to USA. I've transferred in but never out. I asked at my Banco Rio branch but did not get a straight answer. Generally speaking, corporations can only xfer money out for specific concepts such as approved invoices and dividends to a foreign parent company. Also, I assume that dollar-to-dollar xfers are not possible (everything is converted into pesos coming in so I assume its the same going out)
Thomaso276
04-21-06, 20:16
1. Physically give it to someone you trust who is going back to USA to deposit in your bank. Their is risk of accident, robbery loss.
2. Give it to someone you trust here and have them transfer 7K from their bank in USA to your Bank in USA electronically. It will take 24 hours for the transaction to clear.
3. Buy travelers checks, ship them overnight to your key financial people in States. Authorize them to sign and deposit in your account.
4. Go to Uruguay for a day, open an account and then transfer to States when allowable.
5. Keep the cash for future parties!
4. Go to Uruguay for a day, open an account and then transfer to States when allowable.Good point.
When you take the boat to Colonia, one of the things you will notice if you walk around is the high proportion of banks in comparison with the pretty modest size of the town. And many of them have big signs in the windows, indicating that they specialize in accounts for foreigners. Uruguay has been one of the banking forums of convenience for middle-class Argentinos who don't trust their own government's socialist banking shennanigans. The richer Argentinos tend to have their accounts in Miami (especially) and in various places in Europe.
Member #1036
10-31-06, 20:33
I was wondering if anyone knows how to wire money from a BA bank to a USA bank? I hopefully will be receiving some cash from a sale of my apt and want to know how to send it back to the states so I don't have to lug it around. I was wondering if I could set it up prior to me arriving and just have an armed escort with me to the bank there.
Any info appreciated.
Thomaso276
10-31-06, 21:34
Good question. I have no idea but please keep us posted because it will be valuable info. I would be checking with your bank in the States and possibly some money exchange places here. A google search should give you the list here in BA. Maybe American Express has a system where you can bring back a check after depositing here.
If this is the re-purchase by Saint of your apartment you should acknowledge his willingness to buy the place back and to follow through. If it is his re-purchase I imagine he can transfer to USA from one of his accounts. Either way this will cost you some money.
Saint gave you a screwing once and now it looks like a repeat.
Won't you ever learn? If he is such a good guy, why don't you ask him to help you?
Jackpot
Member #1036
11-01-06, 04:28
I answered your smart ass comments in PM so if you want to bring in public it shows a lot of class and I don't know you and I didn't ask for your smart ass comments.
After my ordeal is over I will reveal everything as I did make this a public issue so until then leave your smart ass comments in PM.
Jerkoff.
Saint gave you a screwing once and now it looks like a repeat.
Won't you ever learn? If he is such a good guy, why don't you ask him to help you?
Jackpot
Member #1036
11-01-06, 04:32
Good question. I have no idea but please keep us posted because it will be valuable info. I would be checking with your bank in the States and possibly some money exchange places here. A google search should give you the list here in BA. Maybe American Express has a system where you can bring back a check after depositing here.
If this is the re-purchase by Saint of your apartment you should acknowledge his willingness to buy the place back and to follow through. If it is his re-purchase I imagine he can transfer to USA from one of his accounts. Either way this will cost you some money.I spoke with HSBC which has branches in BA and Citibank and they both say they are on different systems and have no ties to them other than same name.
Like I said in my other post, I will tell my whole story after my ordeal is over.
Yo Member,
Don't be so sensitive.
Its only money. When you get it.
Jackpot
Why do not try Giovinazzo, they are reliable. I have used their service many times, back and forth.
Talk directly to Pablo Giovinazzo (I have no cut!
Giovinazzo. Sarmiento 463. 4329-3600
Biker
For all of you wondering how to send money FROM B.A. TO the U. S. Forget trying! THE ONLY way you could do it is, if you had a declared bank account here in Argentina. To get a bank account IN ARGENTINA you NEED to be a resident! WITH a DNI. AND even after you go through the WHOLE process of that you CANNOT wire any money UNTIL your account is AT LEAST 6 months old! So don't go around to the banks here, that carry American Branch names, "Citi Bank", Boston Bank, etc. Asking them how to do it. They will only look at you with blank faces, until they pass you to the manager who then breaks the news to you. So don't waste your time!
What people do is. You go to an exchange house and wire the money to someone's "offshore" account. And then to your Bank somewhere in the U. S. This is an "under-the-table transaction here, and I'm not recommending it) BUT, in any case. WHY would you want to send money to the U. S. And need to declare it on your taxes? And pay high taxes on foreign investments?
Option. Well, not easy, takes some risks. Some people in Argentina save their money in "financieros". Getting about 10% interest. Again, I can't recommend that. But some people do it. And then take money out little by little. And hope the economy doesn't collapse.
Some of you have asked: the cost, for wiring money from the USA to BA Is around: 1.2%
Just helped a friend do it in October.
For all of you wondering how to send money FROM be. A. TO the U. S. Forget trying! THE ONLY way you could do it is, if you had a declared bank account here in Argentina. To get a bank account IN ARGENTINA you NEED to be a resident! WITH a DNI. AND even after you go through the WHOLE process of that you CANNOT wire any money UNTIL your account is AT LEAST 6 months old! Just to add a little more information, you must also have a permanent CUIT, not a temporary one. It is easy to get once you have the DNI, but is not automatic. It takes a few extra forms. (Thankfully I have a work-provided attorney for all of this)
I found this out the hard way when I went to transfer money. It took another few weeks to get that straightened out.
Get someone from the US or Europe in Europe who you trust and who has both has a bank account in the first world and Argentina
Why don't you use Western Union?
Jaimito Cartero
03-29-08, 03:34
Why don't you use Western Union?Western Union and other money services charge a fairly high percentage rate. Most bank wiring charges a flat fee of $10-$50 for an international wire. Western Union probably has an upper limit on amounts too. I just checked, and they show a 10k daily limit, US$. From some rates I saw online, you'd pay $400 for transferring $10k, and if you want local currency, you might get hit there again.
FrankAndStein
03-23-13, 23:36
Xoom has a $3 k limit I understand, so to buy a property here you need a 'financiero', a middleman who will accept your USD in a bank outside of Argentina, and give you USD inside Argentina for a 1.5% to 3 % fee.
It involves a lot of trust of course, so you need to be careful. The real estate agent should help you with this.
And of course, you don't wire all the money at once. Break it up into small pieces and pay over several months, that way you build trust and don't risk it all.
It really isn't risk though. Financieros have a great business and don't want to risk losing their reputation. Still for you to sleep well, best to do it in small pieces.
And even if you buy from a local, or a builder, chances are they will want some USD outside the country too. Just be sure you have your own lawyer when all this happens.
Xoom has a $3 k limit I understand, so to buy a property here you need a 'financiero', a middleman who will accept your USD in a bank outside of Argentina, and give you USD inside Argentina for a 1.5% to 3 % fee.
Lots of pros and cons of Xoom, so won't go into that here. Just clarify that if you go through all the bells and hoops that Xoom and More Casa their pickup partner requires, you can get cleared for Level 3 transaction limits which are:
$2999 in any single transfer, $9999 24 hr limit, $25 k within 30-day limit, and $60 k within 180-day limit.
Obviously though, pickup at More Casa is only available in pesos. Although short hop away in Uruguay, you can send yourself USD.
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