View Full Version : Corruption in Argentina
Taken from todays Herald.
Exit Felisa Miceli, enter Peirano.
Economy Minister Felisa Miceli resigned after a prosecutor yesterday requested she be summoned to testify as a suspect in a probe over about 64,000 dollars found in her office's bathroom, and she was replaced by Industry Secretary Miguel Peirano (photo alongside) Read More at.
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/argentina/note.jsp?idContent=403433&hideIntro=true
Exon
CarneValistico
07-19-07, 01:25
Since the US cracked the bank secrete of the swiss company called SWIFT.
Bathrooms, old stockings, boxes filled with coffeepowder are up to date again.
I can't believe it. Guys, my private advice: open an anonyme account in an Austrian bank. Austria is the only country in the world where the anonyme number account is protected by the basic Austrian Constitution. It works well.
Cash found in a bathroom, Jesus - this land must be a smugglers paradise.
(Fernandez u Kirschner) according to BA Hearld tried to cover it up for weeks!Welcome home to where You belong Sidney.
Exon
Thomaso276
07-20-07, 00:25
Rumor has it that she knew the inflation rate was so high, the money was cheaper than toilet paper.
Rumor has it that she knew the inflation rate was so high, the money was cheaper than toilet paper.Funny. It will be amusing to see how that situation unfolds. Maybe alot of folks with egg on their face.
What I found interesting about the event was it was a bag of mixed currency's, quoting the Herald.
"Late last month, police conducting a routine security check found a brown paper bag containing the cash in Argentine pesos, US dollars and euros in a bathroom cabinet inside Miceli's offices"
Peso's, Dollars & Euro's, Thats a kick back if I ever heard of one. Three different types of currency's, if the transaction she spoke of was real there would have been only Peso's. In a paper bag in the bathroom no less.
Sorta reminds me of the US Congressman under investagation the FBI found 80 thousand dollars cash in his ice box.
Exon
CarneValistico
07-20-07, 14:48
Didn't she said that it has been a loan from her brother? Maybe now he is going to face troubles to declare where the cash comes from, in several currencies.
Politicians are only humans, everywhere in the world;-)
. Didn't she said that it has been a loan from her brother? Maybe now he is going to face troubles to declare where the cash comes from, in several currencies.
Politicians are only humans, everywhere in the world;-)It appears now that little, if any of that loot came from her brother. Looks like sis is out on a creaky limb.
What I read was that the money was a loan TO her brother, not FROM. The real estate deal fell through and she still was in possesion of of the $$. Plausible? Perhaps. If this was indeed the case then no need to resign. Something amiss. The Herald article puts the loan the other way around. To be continued.
As I read it, the money was a loan from her brother so that she could buy some real estate. The deal didn't happen, so she stuck the money in her work bathroom and "forgot about it". Anyway, there is going to be a full investigation which might get to the bottom of it. Particularly considering that she is under nobody's wing. Of course, if it IS kickback money, maybe the kickbackers could influence the investigation with some more free flowing moolah.
If the Kirchners and their entourage weren't crooked before he gained the presidency, it sure looks like they have been heading down that road for awhile now. They got the look of people who fell head over heels in love with power and control and haven't yet been sated. They have a bunch of ass kissing, minor league beauracrats doing their dirty work for them. Though it pains me to say it, NEVER underestimate the potential for graft, fraud and corruption by ex leftists. They fall fast and hard when they get a taste of the high life! And, most of the right wingers have a longer history of knowing how to be more discrete in their shenanigans.
CarneValistico
07-20-07, 20:54
It is everywhere more or less the same, black accounts in Switzerland etc.
And everywhere is the possebility to make some extra bucks. I read today in the newspaper that the Deutsche bank said that Argentinian economy is more influenced by fraude than Italy, which will mean something.
I mean forgetting cash is one thing, but could it be that way? Its not a typicall female behaviour - rather something like a males aktion in a rush I would say. Maybe I will hear the solution when I am finaly in BA.
Today's "Clarin" had the breakdown of how the coimas (bribes) were distributed by Siemens for the contract to provide a new system of National Identity documents. Siemens were forced to admit their corrupt behavior by action in the USA. Not too many people believe this is the full extent so they are saying "possible coimas". Probably much more.
The contract was for U$1.26 billion and was started during the presidency of Carlos Menen. Unfortunately for Siemens, the contract extended past Menem's term and they had to pay out the next few administrations as well, but they are not too forthcoming with the truth or quantity. Probably being threatened with something dire if they are too frank.
Here's the distribution admitted by Siemens.
President Carlos Menem. U$16 million plus another U$30 million distributed to him and his cabinet. Total U$46 million.
Minister for the Interior. Carlos Corach U$9.75 million.
Director of Immigration Hugo Franco. U$9.75 million.
President Fernando De La Rua. U$6 million.
President Eduardo Duhalde. Admitted but not yet quantified.
President Nestor Kirchner. Admitted but not yet quantified.
Functionaries. U$15.7 million.
Lobbyists. U$35.1 million.
Other entities. U$54.9 million.
Not including what Duhalde and Kirchner squeezed when it was their turn at the top, it comes to U$177.2 million dollars.
Siemens admits in the USA to paying out over U$1.4 billion dollars in bribes to get U$4.283 billion dollars of business. That is right on the button of the generally accepted 33 1/3% that is allowed here for coimas when bidding for public works. Without exception.
So probably the true figure for the Argentine DNI contract coimas is more than U$420 million dollars plus the dough for the later administrations, no doubt added to the contract price in the form of 'extras'. I wonder who got the extra money that no-one is prepared to spill the beans on.
I also wonder if the proposed new law allowing "black money" to be repatriated without penalty or questions isn't a simple device for these corrupt bastards to wash the money and bring it back in. Menen cheerfully admits he received over U$1 billion dollars from "generous friends" while he was President. But he claims he never took a bribe. After this Siemens admission, he story is looking a little flaky.
Argento
Spirit Rider
12-22-08, 03:17
Actually, this contract was my introduction to the country and women of Argentina (my lucky day) I was project liason from my company to the RNP. I spent 40 weeks in BsAs from fall of 1999 til spring of 2001.
I was livin large, $4K / month penthouse apartment on Posadas (one block from Padio Bullrich) full salary, per diem, weekly bonus, milestone bonuses, company driver, etc, etc, etc. Let me tell you if I got non-pro chcas to the apartment (the typical exclamation was, cinco banos! It was a done deal!
This was two companies ago. They were responsible for the imaging component of the project. Not considering the corruption in the acquisition of the contract. The project was a cluster F$#K from the git go.
Siemens paid the entire front end cost of the project $250 Million (we got paid) Then they were supposed to be paid $30.00 for each DNI produced. However, they did not manage their customer well at all. First, they agreed to have the RNP supply government union employees (who ended up constantly on strike) mostly because they weren't getting paid.
Then, they caved every step of the way. The RNP was against the project, so every step along the way they were an obstacle. What should have been maybe 8 different application types ended up being like 75. They didn't listen to us about form design even though we were responsible for the handwritten recognition and key from image. Even though our systems were far from perfect, it was the poor company responsible for the database who could never get the complexity of 75 application types functioning.
The project had problems all the way along. The RNP changed operational considerations after the design and a lot of the development was done, causing major retooling. The delapitated facilities, continual power disruptions, theft of key equipment from PFA guarded facilties (the processors and hard drives disappeared from 120 systems one weekend) RNP obstacles, etc.
The system never really got off the ground. I think maybe 5000 DNIs were produced before Menem left office and then the project just went into a holding pattern until it was finally cancelled.
So does this sound like the Argentina that many of you know so well or WHAT!
Rock Harders
12-22-08, 07:26
Mongers,
This type of deeply-imbedded corruption is the primary reason why Argentina has absolutely no future despite its reasonably educated population, abundance of natural resources, and favorable climate. Those who hold political and / or institutional power in Argentina have zero interest in furthering the greater good of the state and its citizens; their only interest is to maintain power and position for themselves and their partners in crime in order to steal as much money as possible. The fact that the people of Argentina accept this unbelievable level of corruption is truly astounding and speaks to the very corrupt nature of the Argentine society and culture. Lying, deception, laziness, thievery, and outright lack of integrity define the Argentine cultural behavior above all other characteristics. The people put up with the corruption because it is a reflection of the behavior that they find acceptable and is commonplace here.
In my opinion, in a democracy the people generally get the government they deserve and the government that best reflects them. In the USA, Bush was elected and then re-elected as himself a reflection of what more than half of the USA had become: a nation of unbelievably ignorant, white trash jesus freaks. Fortunately, eight years of Bush woke up the American people from their ignorant state and amends are beginning to be made. Argentina, too, had gotten the government they deserved. In Argentina, unfortunately, the Crisis of 2001 was not long lasting or painful enough to bury the political robber class. New robbers just moved north from the land of penguins, where they had been robbing away from the national spotlight for a long time.
But, as El Alamo always says, the fact that Argentina is so ridiculously screwed up and hopeless is the reason there will always be $20 USD pussy available, whether it be denominated in pesos, australes, patacones, or whatever their next currency denomination may be. The total lack of socioeconomic mobility (a situation perpetuated by the robber political class) means there will be busloads of 18 year old pussy showing up at the Retiro bus station on a daily basis looking to spread their legs for me, you, and anyone else who wants to spend $20 USD for a piece of pussy.
Suerte,
Rock Harders
QuakHunter
12-22-08, 12:21
I was debating which thread to post this in. Corruption won. From the Herald. This is filed under the "You Think?" category; especially the last comment.
Duhalde: 'I regret backing Kirchner'
Former president Eduardo Duhalde said he regrets having supported former president Néstor Kirchner and harshly criticized the administration of President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, in an interview published yesterday by La Nación newspaper.
Duhalde said he regretted having sponsored Kirchner's presidential candidacy back in 2003 and added that Kirchner was the one "who disappointed him the most."
"Some people change with power," he commented. Duhalde said that "everything was fine until Kirchner decided to be the economy minister."
"There's practically nothing good," he replied when asked what he thought about the President's administration, and said, as he had done earlier this year, that presenting her as presidential candidate was "a historic mistake" by Kirchner.
"It's a government that does not think strategically," Duhalde said.
The RNP was against the project.Hi Spirit Rider,
What's the "RNP", and why would they or anybody else have been against the project.
Thanks,
Jackson
Rock Harders
12-22-08, 13:22
Jackson,
RNP is Registro Nacional de la Personas; it is the government agency that is in charge of issuing DNI to both Argentines and foreigners. The reason they were against the project is because a digitized DNI would have streamlined the process and eliminated jobs, as it takes many less employees to enter data into a computer and print it out on a PVC card than to go through the long tenuous current DNI process, which involves manually attaching the photo with glue and handwriting all the applicants information in the DNI. All the information, photos, etc have to be certified with a manually placed stamp, all by several people who just sit around waiting to put that stamp in. Also, if any changed need to be made to your data or residency updates, you must again go and wait around for the RNP to manually write in the changes and then go by and have the guy sitting around with the stamp certify the new / updated info. The digitized DNI would have eliminated all these people sitting around, and thus jobs.
Suerte,
Rock Harders
Thomaso276
12-22-08, 13:33
While I agree that the corruption here is overwhelming, let's not forget that it hits us in the USA as well. They difference is it is not as organized and when it is discovered someone gets jailed or at least charged. Can you say Governor Bulgdonovichski or whatever his name is? How about those LAPD cops charged for protecting rap groups several years ago, or NYPD cops working with drug dealers? Or some local hometown newspaper uncovering payoffs to building inspectors.
I think the biggest difference is that here EVERYONE associated with some approval or licensing authority can be bribed, while in the States you have to find that one person or small group who is available. For example try and pay off the next cop who stops you for a traffic violation in the States vs. Here. Which one do you think will be adding charges and taking you to jail? Same with customs or inspectors. You might have limited success in the USA, you have a 99% chance of success here.
One good bribe here is you can bribe chicas for sex!
Jackson,
RNP is Registro Nacional de la Personas; it is the government agency that is in charge of issuing DNI to both Argentines and foreigners. The reason they were against the project is because a digitized DNI would have streamlined the process and eliminated jobs, as it takes many less employees to enter data into a computer and print it out on a PVC card than to go through the long tenuous current DNI process, which involves manually attaching the photo with glue and handwriting all the applicants information in the DNI. All the information, photos, etc have to be certified with a manually placed stamp, all by several people who just sit around waiting to put that stamp in. Also, if any changed need to be made to your data or residency updates, you must again go and wait around for the RNP to manually write in the changes and then go by and have the guy sitting around with the stamp certify the new / updated info. The digitized DNI would have eliminated all these people sitting around, and thus jobs.
Suerte,
Rock HardersThanks Rock, and of course it had to do with protecting jobs.
I'm surprised that there aren't government-subsidized companies in Argentina still manufacturing buggy whips.
J
Daddy Rulz
12-22-08, 17:16
Thanks Rock, and of course it had to do with protecting jobs.
I'm surprised that there aren't government-subsidized companies in Argentina still manufacturing buggy whips.
JSheesh read your own forum, look in the BDSM thread!
While I agree that the corruption here is overwhelming, let's not forget that it hits us in the USA as well. They difference is it is not as organized and when it is discovered someone gets jailed or at least charged. Can you say Governor Bulgdonovichski or whatever his name is? How about those LAPD cops charged for protecting rap groups several years ago, or NYPD cops working with drug dealers? Or some local hometown newspaper uncovering payoffs to building inspectors.
I think the biggest difference is that here EVERYONE associated with some approval or licensing authority can be bribed, while in the States you have to find that one person or small group who is available. For example try and pay off the next cop who stops you for a traffic violation in the States vs. Here. Which one do you think will be adding charges and taking you to jail? Same with customs or inspectors. You might have limited success in the USA, you have a 99% chance of success here.
One good bribe here is you can bribe chicas for sex!Sure there is corruption in the USA as well as in most countries. Where I think you are wrong is in that you fail to understand that the political class here aspire to political power just so they can be bribed. It is a gigantic confidence trick played against the Argentine citizens who genuinely think the politicians are trying to change things for the better. If they change anything it is purely to enrich their own pockets. The pollies on the other hand do not have any humanity for their constituents. They are there just for the bribes and if they have to spin a bit about social justice and how bad other countries treat Argentina, they can do it with apparent conviction and with style. Just follow the trail on the Siemens affair and you will see that each successive administration took bribes at the Presidential level. No exceptions and that officials and functionaries lower down the food chain also had their snouts in the trough. These projects are created to develope a pipeline to feed the bribes to those in the foodchain. In the States, the small amount of government corruption is opportunist and severely punished in a social and economic sense. The only one of the Argentine Presidents in trouble with the law is Menem and that is related to illegal arms trading and the bribes he took there. Nothing is being done about the admissions Siemens has coughed up.
When you see perfectly good streets and curbing being replaced, you wonder about such politicians that can sanction such blatantly contrived contracts but continue to do nothing about the more than 200 children a month that die of malnutricion according to the World Health Organisation. They have no doubt about their priorities. It's get as much money as you can as quick as you can.
Argento
Thomaso276
12-22-08, 19:07
No, I understand about the politics here. My first year it was explained to me that although everyone likes to complain about corrupt innefficient gov't, they all aspire to get in on it. It goes back to how Spain treated the Americas, steal everything and ship it overseas, get your family positions of power and after a few years, get thrown out by the King for stealing, usually ratted out by the jealous guy who wants his cut. Of course, your family is still stealing and the next guy in charge does the same thing.
I was also advised that a person who hold political office as a result of being elected has some sort of immunity from criminal charges (maybe past charges, I am not sure) until they leave office. I recall reading something about this and was confused, but I think there are some immunity issues.
Gotta go, gonna start my campaign for city council in the neighborhood!
Spirit Rider
12-23-08, 01:46
Rock was 100% correct that it was about protecting jobs. However, extrapolate that to what it really means, POWER. When you have jobs to hand out you have patronage to control and ghost employees to put on the payroll and budgets to use to extract bribes from suppliers, etc.
Carrió accuses former president and other officials of irregularities.
Prosecutor targets K in graft probe.
Elisa Carrió, head of the coalition, sued officials and Kirchnerite businessmen over alleged irregularities in the construction of public works, housing programmes, oil exploitation contracts, gambling and transport.
Information in the case that would link Kirchner to the alleged corruption cases has reportedly been presented to the court by Carrió, following investigations conducted by lawmakers of the ARI (a centre-left party formerly led by Carrió) and the Civic Coalition.
After the judge's decision was announced, Carrió praised the actions of the judiciary and said "there is no other destination than jail for Kirchner.
"This is the best Christmas gift I ever received, the opening of the case means that the prosecutor has ordered to investigate into the accusations against Kirchner and his group" said Carrió during a radio interview.
Federal Judge Julián Ercolini yesterday formally accepted a request from prosecutor Gerardo Pollicita to start a probe into the actions of the alleged criminal organization formed by Kirchner, Planning Minister Julio De Vido, Transport Secretary Ricardo Jaime, Claudio Uberti (former head of the Occovi road watchdog.
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Looks like a scandle is on its way, the above is from todays Buenos Aires Hearld
Exom
Thomaso276
12-26-08, 07:23
These investigations go on all the time and rarely result in anything of importance. Like the military junta guys being in jail 30 years after their crimes!
QuakHunter
01-03-09, 11:45
Read this Ass Kisser from the BA Herald's "Your View" section. My guess is he will get some kind of appointment from CFK. I'm not sure what "Daub-and-Wattle" means, but I have a pretty good grasp on the term "Miracle". Wherever he is from in Europe must be hell. Or someplace where words matter more than results.
Also, CFK in "lacy panties" gives me chills.
IN PRAISE OF THE KIRCHNERS.
As a part-time resident here, fleeing northern European winters annually, I describe Argentina's economic "miracle"to UK friends as a daub-and-wattle job.
Nevertheless, I do not hide my admiration for the Kirchners, in view of the difficult task facing anyone trying to run this country.
To have to harness a disparate assortment of latter-day Peronists, many of whom are not sure they are Peronists, with a few hundred bully boys (los gremios trade unionists) who need appeasing on a daily basis, is a huge task. But they are bright people.
Not Ivy League "smartie pants" clever. More down at the bottom, wooing on the streets, "lacy panties" style.
Comparing the incumbents of the Casa Rosada these past 20 years, the Kirchners may get a good history.
David Davis
Read this Ass Kisser from the BA Herald's "Your View" section. My guess is he will get some kind of appointment from CFK. I'm not sure what "Daub-and-Wattle" means, but I have a pretty good grasp on the term "Miracle". Wherever he is from in Europe must be hell. Or someplace where words matter more than results.
Also, CFK in "lacy panties" gives me chills.This is a fairly accurate description of the Kirschners. How history will view them depends on how long they keep their phony / baloney con operation in power. They will not be judged by how they fundamentaly changed the train wreck known as Argentina.
The Kirschners have refused to make any fundamental changes to the economic Frankenstein known as Peronism.
They have kept themselves in power with mirrors, whistles, rubberbands and chewing gum. This worked because of increasing commodity prices that occurred during most of their administration.
The Kirschners are history. The peso will continue to devalue. Productivity and economic production will decrease. There will be blood in the streets.
How the Kirschners expected a different result without fundamentally changing the economy is beyond me.
But at the end of the day the Kirschners will be sipping Bloody Marys in a foreign country, basking in the sun, with big smiles. They will have had some 8 years (my estimate as to when their administration succumbs to riots in the streets) to rob the country blind and enrich themselves.
The Kirschners are not a new breed of politician. They are Mennon and every previous corrupt Argentine administration reborn.
Daddy Rulz
01-06-09, 14:33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rH6_i8zuffs&feature=related
Its the first in a 12 parter outlining the steps to the meltdown of 2001. I found it interesting though in places the translation is weak. I wish my Spanish was as good as brother dickhead so I could have just listened.
Thanks Daddy Rulz for the link. Really enjoyed the documentary. Watched the whole 12 parts. Some of the interviewees had some fascinating comments. Well worth my time.
Daddy Rulz
01-06-09, 21:17
Thanks Daddy Rulz for the link. Really enjoyed the documentary. Watched the whole 12 parts. Some of the interviewees had some fascinating comments. Well worth my time.I live to serve.
I have read with amusement stories of some extranjeros who think they are getting fair shakes when dealing with Argentinos. Of course, this is not possible. Argies are corrupt to the bone.
It is much like my contractor. He is an Argie. He tells me what the price will be to remodel my home. Of course the price is ridiculous but he will stick behind the price because he knows how to hire plumbers, electricians etc.
At the end of the day the price comes in exactly as my contractor said it would. However, the price is far higher than any Argie would pay for the work.
It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out that my Argie contractor has pocketed the difference between what I paid him and what he paid his workers.
Anyone with any insight will deduce that the primary pastime in Argentina is screwing foreigners.
Those without any insight will claim that the Argies follow fair and just business practices
Of course, you can try to hire the plumbers, electricians etc directly. This is unlikely to work because they will do the shoddiest work possible for inflated prices. Every fucking Argie is a genetically born thief - believe it or not.
At least your contractor can hold them to minimal standards of workmanship.
P.S. This is not to say Argentina is not a great place to live. It is.
This is to say the shortest book ever written was titled "Honest Argies I Have Known"
For a little comical relief I would appreciate a few testimonials from completely naive people recounting their splendid encounters with the honest and trustworthy Argies.
Hotman 666
02-04-09, 13:14
Don't think that you guys have cornered the market in corruption!
Can you imagine working for a Company that has a little more than 600 employees and has the following employee statistics?
• 29 have been accused of spouse abuse.
• 7 have been arrested for fraud.
• 9 have been accused of writing bad cheque's.
• 17 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses.
• 3 have done time for assault.
• 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit.
• 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges.
• 8 have been arrested for shoplifting.
• 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits.
• 84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year.
Which organization is this?
It's the 635 members of the UK House of Commons, the same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us Brits inline.
What a bunch of be*****ds we have running our country - it says it all.
And just to top all that they probably have the best 'corporate' pension scheme in the country!
Hotman.
"Not one single job must be lost." The leader in today's Herald is a statement made by Nestor Kirchner and certainly confirms how far removed his public statements are from commercial reality. His follow-up comment that he had "warned about the incorrect working of the international economy's structure", is also a good indication of his political know-how, not his economic savyness. I would like to comment on both statements.
Firstly though, of all the countries that survive on exports, Argentina should be the one in the best position to be least affected. The problem is one of modern derivative financial markets, credit and banking; to which Argentina was not greatly exposed, simply by virtue of its eight year exclusion from international credit markets and its almost nonexistent banking and stock markets. So only marginal exposure to the international crisis. Any crisis here is self-induced and unrelated to the rest of the world. And guess who dictated policy post the corralito (2002) No prizes if you said Nestor Kirchner. Certainly the downturn in agricultural commodities will hurt the Argentine economy but in reality, today's commodity prices are really better than the historical mean; not fantastic but certainly not basement prices.
Mr. Kirchner's claimed prescience in the context of today's statement is news to me. Any comments that he made in the past, (and he has made many) have been simply rhetoric to support and shore-up his set position ("lend us money") in relation to Argentina being closed out of international financial markets. To attempt to attribute those statements to the position of the current world recession is plainly claiming credit for something he did not do, and would put him, if it was true, to be nominated for the Nobel prize in Economics. In two words: Not likely.
A company's primary obligation is to their shareholders. Without profits and the subsequent dividends, no shareholders would risk their hard-earned capital. To expect companies to retain unneeded labour and disregard their obligations to their owners, can be a criminal offence in most western jurisdictions. By using the term 'businessmen', it creates the impression that most company owners are sole traders and have been so prosperous that they can afford to have labour sitting around fully paid. And that is obviously what the 'public' Mr. Kirchner would want. But most companies are not sole traders and labour is just one cost that must be reviewed when business declines. Rents, utilities, finance etc all need to be carefully adjusted to reflect their proportional costs to the end product of their company. And labour is no different. Social support in times of distress is the responsibility of society and good government ought to have contingency plans for just those situations. If he applies his 'public' economic savyness to his hotel interests, he will certainly go broke. After all, if there are no beds to be made and no rooms to clean, why would you have staff sitting around? All of which I am sure Mr. Kirchner is aware and of which I am also sure, that his labour inputs will be adjusted to the demands of his hotels.
Perhaps his inane public statements might vary from his private business. After all, how did he get so rich?
Argento.
Sent to the BA Herald today.
This is my first post.
This canard has been floating around internet for a decade in various guises although the numbers are always the same. First started about the US Congress. Canadian Parliament has been tarred with the same exact report. Lots of stuff out there on the Internet. Some of it is true.
On this particular item see this link:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp
Don't think that you guys have cornered the market in corruption!
Can you imagine working for a Company that has a little more than 600 employees and has the following employee statistics?
• 29 have been accused of spouse abuse.
• 7 have been arrested for fraud.
• 9 have been accused of writing bad cheque's.
• 17 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses.
• 3 have done time for assault.
• 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit.
• 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges.
• 8 have been arrested for shoplifting.
• 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits.
• 84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year.
Which organization is this?
It's the 635 members of the UK House of Commons, the same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us Brits inline.
What a bunch of be*****ds we have running our country - it says it all.
And just to top all that they probably have the best 'corporate' pension scheme in the country!
Hotman.
- Every week you'll find part of the staff at Black as a reward.
- The Female Manager fucked the Maid.
- The Maid, was banged by 30+ clients.
- The clients fucked the chicas at Madaho.
- The taxi driver got a BJ from the chica the client paid for a free ride.
- The assistant was found masturbating on a chair at the office.
- The Maid was found masturbating herself with the vacuum machine.
- The CEO fucked the client's assistant.
- The staff had vacation on a nude resort as a reward for improving sales.
- The clients were drunk in a party with the staff.
- No employee has a driver license, they are all drunk all the time.
Which organization is this?
The leading company in Apartments Rentals: BARTS www.barts.com.ar
Don't think that you guys have cornered the market in corruption!
Can you imagine working for a Company that has a little more than 600 employees and has the following employee statistics?
• 29 have been accused of spouse abuse.
• 7 have been arrested for fraud.
• 9 have been accused of writing bad cheque's.
• 17 have directly or indirectly bankrupted at least 2 businesses.
• 3 have done time for assault.
• 71 cannot get a credit card due to bad credit.
• 14 have been arrested on drug-related charges.
• 8 have been arrested for shoplifting.
• 21 are currently defendants in lawsuits.
• 84 have been arrested for drink driving in the last year.
Which organization is this?
It's the 635 members of the UK House of Commons, the same group that cranks out hundreds of new laws each year designed to keep the rest of us Brits inline.
What a bunch of be*****ds we have running our country - it says it all.
And just to top all that they probably have the best 'corporate' pension scheme in the country!
Hotman.
Although I think it interesting the brit report is a fake.
See this link.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/crime/congress.asp
Never ceases to amaze me the depth of corruption here. EZE Customs boss busted.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clarin.com%2Fdiario%2F2010%2F03%2F11%2Fpoliciales%2Fg-02156857.htm&sl=es&tl=en
Jaimito Cartero
03-11-10, 13:03
Corruption in Buenos Aires? Say it ain't so!
Wild Walleye
03-11-10, 16:05
Never ceases to amaze me the depth of corruption here. EZE Customs boss busted.
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clarin.com%2Fdiario%2F2010%2F03%2F11%2Fpoliciales%2Fg-02156857.htm&sl=es&tl=enClearly, he must have pissed off the wrong guy. Either that or someone further up the criminal food chain needed to throw the authorities a decent bone. These guys don't get busted due to dogged detective work. They are protected.
Clearly, he must have pissed off the wrong guy. Either that or someone further up the criminal food chain needed to throw the authorities a decent bone. These guys don't get busted due to dogged detective work. They are protected.Think this guy is a big fish. They found $800k stashed in his house. EZE customs are at the top of my shit list. They busted my balls for 100 pesos to get my three zip-lock bags of cashews through customs. All the shit brought through customs at EZE and I get hassled over cashews. No justice.
http://momento24.com/en/2010/03/12/ezeiza-customs-chief-arrested-over-smuggling-case/
TejanoLibre
03-12-10, 15:51
Corruption in Buenos Aires? Say it ain't so!A few weeks after I re-opened Lálliance and 1 day after SIMONE, the crazy Brazilian attacked me in the restaurant I had a visit by an undercover sergeant that controls the entire district and he explained that If I was going to have working girls and or drug dealers at my establishment then I would have to pay him off or he would close me down!
Plain and simple!
I explained that a lot of my girlfriends happen to be working girls and that I do not allow drug dealers to operate within the restaurant.
It is a family restaurant where you can order a huge T-Bone, a bottle of fine wine and a hooker for desert!
The CRAZY Brazilian is the one that made up the story about the drug dealers to make it more interesting!
Then a dark car with totally blacked out windows came by and hung-out in front of my place for about 5 minutes at 4 in the morning!
Never a dull moment!
Stay Tuned !
This deal is just starting to get good !
TL
I explained that a lot of my girlfriends happen to be working girls and that I do not allow drug dealers to operate within the restaurant.Unfortunately, I doubt that makes you exempt from payment.:-)
The flip side of the corruption here is that it can work in your favor. I was able to renew my work visa, something that officially takes six weeks, in two days. You just have to know somebody who "knows" somebody.
Cordoba Dan
11-08-12, 22:19
Could I get a local's take on tonights demonstration. There seems to be a hot mess of a mix of issues lathering everyone up. Some signs concern the fear of Christina extending her term ala Chavez. Some are calling for a stop to the killing. Is that a reference to general insecurity among the public (Agualung's take on that would be great) How often do they coordinate these across the country? Can' t remember seeing that before. A little backround on who are 8N would be great. Thanks
Daddy Rulz
11-08-12, 22:34
Could I get a local's take on tonights demonstration. There seems to be a hot mess of a mix of issues lathering everyone up. Some signs concern the fear of Christina extending her term ala Chavez. Some are calling for a stop to the killing. Is that a reference to general insecurity among the public (Agualung's take on that would be great) How often do they coordinate these across the country? Can' t remember seeing that before. A little backround on who are 8N would be great. Thankscan't really tell you the issues but I was out in it a little. The vibe was pretty cool, aided in no small part to all the weed I could smell burning. Pretty calm, with a real mix of demographics.
Cordoba Dan
11-09-12, 09:33
The anti Christinas were well represented as many signs now spell corruption with a capital K. Speaking of devided electorates, you might be surprised at the signs reading Viva la Reina. After the Malvinas, it would be a stretch to suggest they were talking about QEII.
Daddy Rulz
11-09-12, 10:07
It is as simple as that!NOOOOOOOOO I hope they keep her forever! Christina=terrible for Argentinians, FREAKEN AWESOME* for ex-pats
*except for electronics and getting money
NOOOOOOOOO I hope they keep her forever! Christina=terrible for Argentinians, FREAKEN AWESOME* for ex-pats
*except for electronics and getting moneyEx pats living on pesos cant wait for her to go
Daddy Rulz
11-09-12, 13:09
Ex pats living on pesos cant wait for her to goI should have qualified that better. I feel your pain brother.
Expats living on pesos are doing better? Its true the dollar is trading at thirty percent above the official rate, but what good does that do you when prices are 2 to 3 times more expensive here then in the US of A? For example, here a pair of levis sell for 600 pesos and up. In Walmart. Com with tax and shipped to your house its around 20 dollars? Thats five times more expensive here. Not to mention they are probably selling you "levis" "Hecho en China!"
Expats living on pesos are doing better? Its true the dollar is trading at thirty percent above the official rate, but what good does that do you when prices are 2 to 3 times more expensive here then in the US of A? For example, here a pair of levis sell for 600 pesos and up. In Walmart. Com with tax and shipped to your house its around 20 dollars? Thats five times more expensive here. Not to mention they are probably selling you "levis" "Hecho en China!"Think you misread it below. People weren't saying expats living on pesos are doing better. The implication was expats on dollars are better but that expats on pesos are feeling pain.
But your levis example is bit odd. If your budget is such that the prices you mentioned are a difficulty, why even include levis? You can buy much cheaper local brand jeans as a barometer of how far your peso budget stretches. Comparing local living costs against an imported item like levis is like saying it's costly to live in california because you compared the imported chianti wine prices rather than local napa / sonoma wines.
Think you misread it below. People weren't saying expats living on pesos are doing better. The implication was expats on dollars are better but that expats on pesos are feeling pain.
But your levis example is bit odd. If your budget is such that the prices you mentioned are a difficulty, why even include levis? You can buy much cheaper local brand jeans as a barometer of how far your peso budget stretches. Comparing local living costs against an imported item like levis is like saying it's costly to live in california because you compared the imported chianti wine prices rather than local napa / sonoma wines.What you say is true. But its not that I can't afford to buy Levis here, Its just a 50 50 chance you will end up with Levis and not some rip off. Plus while local jeans can be bought for about 150pesos. You wash them 10 times and then you need to go buy new ones. Ill stick with Levis, Wranglers, etc.
Member #3320
11-09-12, 17:41
But the streets look really deary.
I was walking on the street yesterday in CF. All the shops look so old. Selling old cameras, stupid handbags and shoes for 900 pesos, the mall in Alto palermo is a junk yard. Its shocking that the country is lagging behind so much compared to other countries of South America.
I am curious, how this compares to prices & quality of what is available in other countries of South America.
Thank you, Sidney, for just posting the link. It's much better!
Mountaineer
12-18-12, 13:44
Expats living on pesos are doing better? Its true the dollar is trading at thirty percent above the official rate, but what good does that do you when prices are 2 to 3 times more expensive here then in the US of A? For example, here a pair of levis sell for 600 pesos and up. In Walmart. Com with tax and shipped to your house its around 20 dollars? Thats five times more expensive here. Not to mention they are probably selling you "levis" "Hecho en China!"My taxi driver said Americans visiting for vacation do well with increasing exchange rates, because it only takes a snapshot of a temporary window. He says ExPats retiring here are getting killed the same as all all local Argentine residents. He said when the rates jumps from 4 to 5 to 6, all the food, wine, gas, restaurants, and apt rents change to match within 90 days so you gain absolutely nothing. He said the best thing for anyone but short term visitors is a solid 2 to 1 rate.
PickCherry12
04-22-13, 18:50
Ralph Lauren Corp. has agreed to pay $1.6 million after finding that its subsidiary in Argentina repeatedly bribed customs officials, federal authorities announced Monday.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/22/news/companies/ralph-lauren-bribery/
TejanoLibre
04-22-13, 21:40
Ralph Lauren Corp. has agreed to pay $1.6 million after finding that its subsidiary in Argentina repeatedly bribed customs officials, federal authorities announced Monday.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/22/news/companies/ralph-lauren-bribery/
The Ralph Lauren Store in Recoleta in front of the Alvear Palace Hotel and next to Black is a GORGEOUS Mansion that if it's for sale should be worth well over 5 million DOLLARS. Easy!
The building is closed as the Ralph Lauren Shop. Spectacular!
That street is or was full of high-end shops but most of them have left:
Armani.
Ralph Lauren.
Hermes?
Louis Viton?
Empty Shops or replaced by some very optimistic fools or money launderers.
TL.
Oh what a cat-house the Ralph Lauren Pad would make!
Ralph Lauren Corp. has agreed to pay $1.6 million after finding that its subsidiary in Argentina repeatedly bribed customs officials, federal authorities announced Monday.
http://money.cnn.com/2013/04/22/news/companies/ralph-lauren-bribery/And then they're allowed to BUY their way out of prosecution?
Ha, ha! There's some good old American justice for you!
:winky:
Here's another example of business in Argentina:
http://en.mercopress.com/2013/04/23/brazil-investigating-sale-of-20-embraer-e-190-to-aerolineas-argentinas-fearing-surcharges
Expats living on pesos are doing better? Its true the dollar is trading at thirty percent above the official rate, but what good does that do you when prices are 2 to 3 times more expensive here then in the US of A? For example, here a pair of levis sell for 600 pesos and up. In Walmart. Com with tax and shipped to your house its around 20 dollars? Thats five times more expensive here. Not to mention they are probably selling you "levis" "Hecho en China!"I meant that I like a few other expats earning in pesos are really havong a difficult time as each month we earn less...
I hope that is clear enough.
WTF? Ralph Lauren pay a few hundred thou to facilitate importation to Argentina and they're prosecuted in the US?
Should have made political contributions in the US as well.
WTF? Ralph Lauren pay a few hundred thou to facilitate importation to Argentina and they're prosecuted in the US?
It is odd isn't it?
Although even odder that they can then pay a bribe, no, sorry, "a fine", to _avoid_ the prosecution.
Oddest of all is why are they being charged in the US instead of in Argentina where presumably the "crime" took place.
It's standard operating procedure for US prosecutors to shake down taxpayers to avoid court, runs like the protection rackets of old.
Oddest of all is why are they being charged in the US instead of in Argentina where presumably the "crime" took place.
It's standard operating procedure for US prosecutors to shake down taxpayers to avoid court, runs like the protection rackets of old.Probably because the complainants are now in California and not in Argentina.
Rock Harders
04-23-13, 21:50
Mongers-.
RL is being prosecuted in the US because their stock is traded on the NYSE and they are in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act, which makes it illegal for US-listed companies to bribe foreign officials.
Suerte,
Rock Harders.
Oddest of all is why are they being charged in the US instead of in Argentina where presumably the "crime" took place.
It's standard operating procedure for US prosecutors to shake down taxpayers to avoid court, runs like the protection rackets of old.
Thought paying bribes to do business in Argentina was a given. How foolish of me to think otherwise. Argentina, pilar of virtues.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-siemens-argentina-idUSTRE7BC18J20111213
Thought paying bribes to do business in Argentina was a given. How foolish of me to think otherwise. Argentina, pilar of virtues.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/12/13/us-siemens-argentina-idUSTRE7BC18J20111213Now is "Batman" who came to save our lives! Mr. Honest! You confuse bribes with retributions!
By the way, what is the definition of a "lobby?
TejanoLibre
04-24-13, 17:57
Now is "Batman" who came to save our lives! Mr. Honest! You confuse bribes with retributions!
By the way, what is the definition of a "lobby?I'm NOT saying that I'm Batman, I'm just saying that we have NEVER been seen in the same place at the same time.
TL.
Wild Walleye
04-27-13, 03:00
I do not understand this thread. There is no corruption in Argentina. There is nothing to see here! Move along!
Wild Walleye
04-29-13, 15:21
...bribes with retributions...Also known as "carrot and stick.
However, if you have any connection to the US (I.e. Citizen or corporation) you are bound by the Corrupt Foreign Practices Act the variety or carrots and sticks available for you to utilize (legally) are limited. Interestingly, another bunch of regulations that do not apply to members of the US ruling class.
Last Monday I watched the program "Scam City" on the Science (hd) Channel. It's a show about various scams that happen in cities around the world and this episode was on the scams of BA. It focused mostly on the rampant counterfeit black market in BA, mostly against tourists, and displayed many neighborhoods in the city.
The scams started with pungas / pickpockets on the streets (especially Boca) and in the subways. It also highlighted a "black widow", a woman who seduces men and then puts "Burundaga" in their drink and rips them off. The host then worked his way into catching corrupt taxi drivers doing a switcheroo with counterfit bills, meeting with a counterfeit middleman on Florida St., a gang who produces money, then finally meeting "The Artist" the guy who does the best counterfeit work in the country. He was saying that counterfeiting is not seen as a shameful crime, but a matter of craftiness, an unusual turnaround of ethics. In any case, according to the program, after the interviews were done, "The Artist" and a whole ring of counterfeiters were caught and are awaiting trial. But is seems that the consciousness of counterfeiting in BA, and in Argentina in general, is embedded into fabric of society, including the banks and the police.
It makes me wonder if the pesos I exchanged in a cueva were real. The work of the Artist is apparently top-notch and undetectable by the untrained. In any case, no one said anything of the bills I had. But the program is worth a look; somehow a lot of the caught criminals talked on camera. Who knows, maybe the show itself is a scam!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2207986/
Who knows, maybe the show itself is a scam!
Well, quite a lot of it did ring untrue. He was talking about the fake bills he'd been given as change by a taxi driver and was rifling through a bunch of 100's.he must have paid with a 1000 peso note! And the pick-pocketing piece that was filmed was so obviously staged that I began to wonder how much of the whole programme was staged. He also, allegedly, infiltrated the counterfeiting organization so as to get that 'interview' with the armed gang within 4 days of arriving in Buenos Aires and then got to meet "The Artist" within 6 days of arriving. Which really doesn't sound very realistic.
I particularly felt sorry for the taxi drivers, who were totally savaged, leaving viewers with the impression that they're all scum-bag thieves! I've been robbed in Argentina more times than I care to mention on this forum (for danger of being attacked) but in 6 years of regular taxi use I've never had any problems whatsoever. In fact, I've been over-changed and had discounted trips when I've found myself with insufficient funds!
TejanoLibre
05-03-13, 15:59
Well, quite a lot of it did ring untrue. He was talking about the fake bills he'd been given as change by a taxi driver and was rifling through a bunch of 100's.he must have paid with a 1000 peso note! And the pick-pocketing piece that was filmed was so obviously staged that I began to wonder how much of the whole programme was staged. He also, allegedly, infiltrated the counterfeiting organization so as to get that 'interview' with the armed gang within 4 days of arriving in Buenos Aires and then got to meet "The Artist" within 6 days of arriving. Which really doesn't sound very realistic.
I particularly felt sorry for the taxi drivers, who were totally savaged, leaving viewers with the impression that they're all scum-bag thieves! I've been robbed in Argentina more times than I care to mention on this forum (for danger of being attacked) but in 6 years of regular taxi use I've never had any problems whatsoever. In fact, I've been over-changed and had discounted trips when I've found myself with insufficient funds!Finding the Artist is easy! He will give anybody an interview, does it all the time. Very well known.
The guys with the masks would have robbed him and killed him for his mega-buck camera gear and questions.
Nobody would have ever admitted to the wallet theft! Try to find the same person twice in Boca on a Sunday? Especially if you did not really see his face. They would have not admitted anything.
It was a Wanker Production but Life IS like that down here! NO BS!
TL.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/11354521/Argentine-prosecutor-who-accused-Cristina-Kirchner-over-1994-bombings-found-dead.html
Alberto Nisman, 51, found dead hours before he was to testified in Parliament on Monday. He had spend the last decade investigating the 1994 bombings of a Buenos Aires Jewish Center that killed 84 people.
Question for me, why was he alone or was he?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/southamerica/argentina/11354521/Argentine-prosecutor-who-accused-Cristina-Kirchner-over-1994-bombings-found-dead.html
Alberto Nisman, 51, found dead hours before he was to testified in Parliament on Monday. He had spend the last decade investigating the 1994 bombings of a Buenos Aires Jewish Center that killed 84 people.
Question for me, why was he alone or was he?Kirchner didn't have anything to gain from his death. Especially after he said " I could end up dead " a couple days before he did so. She might not be the smartest politician in the world but even the idea is insulting. On the other hand the Israelis had alot to gain publicly from his death. Another false flag to blame Iran. Israel goes around murdering Iranian nuclear physicists and doesn't even bat an eye lash. The idea that it couldn't be them is preposterous. Iran also had less than nothing to gain. As soon as sanctions are lifted on Iran, the countries economy is going to boom and it will become THE middle east power. Anybody really think they cared at all about this Argentinian Nisman fellow? Nisman injected himself into the argument, at the behest of whom? For what? To stop Israel from getting blamed?
Again. Cui Bono? If this murder deflects from the investigation of Israels part in the bombings then I guess we have our answer. If the people who control the media hence the narrative, are all pushing to blame Iran and Kirchner, then I guess we have our answer.
Loud mouth Nisman wasn't a threat to either. He was running a media circus to try and stop the investigation into Israels part in the bombings and if he couldn't he really wasn't of much use to the Israelis. But his death was. Since. They could blame it on Iran and Kirchner by default while their media lackeys parrot Israels narrative on demand.
If this murder is used to again demonize Iran and the Kirchners then we know Cui Bono. If it is used to obstruct the investigation of Israels involvement in the bombings then we know Cui Bono. Everything else is a media circus and disinformation campaign. Why is Israel so scared of being investigated? What are they hiding? An honest person with nothing to hide isn't afraid of being investigated. When people start turning up dead, you have to ask yourself who really profits more. Why is the corporate Israeli controlled media trying to blame one side of the argument without any proof whatsoever?
Is Kirchner or Iran benefiting at all from this murder? Didn't they know they would immediately be blamed? Is the average person really supposed to believe this unbelievable narrative because TV and the MSM tell them to believe it.
Do those in power really expect us to be that stupid?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walter_Lippmann
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Carey
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_Popular_Delusions_and_the_Madness_of_Crowds
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manufacturing_Consent
Of course they do.
Pedropolar
01-19-15, 20:38
Do those in power really expect us to be that stupid? I think that is the question.
Yes, they do. 9/11, Boston marathon, Breivik in Norway, Charlie Hebdo shootings. The list is growing. Unfortunately the majority believes the most incredible BS without asking who is benefiting.
Yes, they do. 9/11, Boston marathon, Breivik in Norway, Charlie Hebdo shootings. The list is growing. Unfortunately the majority believes the most incredible BS without asking who is benefiting.Humans unfortunately have a herd mentality. They aren't by nature, thinkers. They are followers. They are believers. They believe and follow whomever is leading the herd. The average human being will turn on their TV and will, without any evidence presented what so ever, believe at face value whatever the talking head on the screen tells them to believe. Even though that talking head is paid and funded by corporate interests and is as biased as they come.
But if someone comes along and shows actual proof that the corporate narrative is wrong, the preprogrammed humans will start saying things like " conspiracy theory " or the like. Not ever once thinking for themselves. Not even once seeing the irony of choosing to believe one corporately pimped " conspiracy theory " narrative over anything else.
But then again that is why we as a human race are headed in the direction we are headed.
Now, I have not gone to research anything yet. Somehow a name from the past, Menem, flamboyant ex-president comes up. Could he be a key figure in all this. Just one look at him, and you can see corruption dripping out of his pores.
Yes, they do. 9/11, Boston marathon, Breivik in Norway, Charlie Hebdo shootings. The list is growing. Unfortunately the majority believes the most incredible BS without asking who is benefiting.Is someone co-ordinating all these events? Even the oil prices right now. Somebody stands to gain from it, but was there a plan from them to do so?
All politicians are corrupt. That is why they become politicians. Does anybody really think these millionaires and billionaires choose public office for altrustic reasons? Doesn't anybody wonder why elections cost hundreds of millions and even billions? Because people want a job that pays 100 K a year?
Really?
Corporations and the banks that own them " donate billions of dollars to politicians every year and nobody ever wondered why? You honestly think they don't want anything in return?
Corruption is a stick to beat your opponents with in the media. Because once they're out. Then you can take their place. It's a circular argument that never goes anywhere since they are all corrupt. And if you don't want corruption end campaign financing outside of what the State provides and do away with career politicians. Better yet, neuter the government and put them in charge of defending borders and maintaining national parks and such. Then take away the power of the money changers to print money and call them federal notes for their own personal gain. Until then. You will never do away with corruption.
It's so sad. The super pac's gorging on money. The process continues to fall apart. I hope that something changes the current dirrection.
What is the word on the street in BA. On the USA tv it looks like lots of very angry folks have had it with the current president?
In an article in the Miami Herald, CFK now says that Nisman did not commit suicide. She now says that he was killed by a conspiracy of her political enemies who want to discredit her. Unbelievable!
Tres3.
In an article in the Miami Herald, CFK now says that Nisman did not commit suicide. She now says that he was killed by a conspiracy of her political enemies who want to discredit her. Unbelievable!
Tres3.Think about it. For once she might be right!
Spirit Rider
01-25-15, 02:35
Think about it. For once she might be right!The investigating prosecutor reported today that Alberto Nisman was shot point-blank into the forehead. Of course, they are still saying that there is no evidence that third parties were involved.
Yup, people who commit suicide always shoot themselves in the forehead.
WorldTravel69
01-25-15, 14:19
It looks like it was Murder.
http://www.sfgate.com/news/world/article/Reporter-covering-prosecutor-s-death-leaves-6038002.php
Wild Walleye
01-27-15, 18:31
Yes, they do. 9/11, Boston marathon, Breivik in Norway, Charlie Hebdo shootings. The list is growing. Unfortunately the majority believes the most incredible BS without asking who is benefiting.Can you still get tin foil in Bs As? I think you need a hat.
Can you still get tin foil in Bs As? I think you need a hat.Not sure but by the sound of your post, I'm assuming you're fully stocked up on government kool-aid. I think you're going to need a bigger straw.
We are watching the down fall of a great experiment in the USA
It's so sad. The super pac's gorging on money. The process continues to fall apart. I hope that something changes the current direction.It's not sad to me. I've been expecting to see the "great liberal experiment" collapse under it's own excesses and the mismanagement by it's inept architects.
MB, I recognize that you were disappointed at the Citizens United court decision and the resulting "super pac's gorging on money" because the American voters are now being exposed to more non-liberal points of view, but I would remind you that corporations are legal entities that cannot vote but are nevertheless required to pay taxes, a classic "taxation without representation" scenario.
If you don't want corporations pumping money into political issues, then stop taxing them. Otherwise, please accept that collective media purchases are the only method that corporations have to defend themselves against government attacks on their businesses and their income by every salivating politician and their "I want free money" constituents.
Thanks,
Jax.
P.S.: For those of you who are concerned about the impact of this on the Federal budget (liberals hereby excluded), if corporations were not taxed, their higher profits would be passed on as dividends to their stockholders who would subsequently pay more income taxes on their now higher income.
Corporations can't vote? Are you kidding me. Their vote is the only vote that matters.
Corporations are owned by the banks which are owned by American oligarchs. Who do you think owns 70% of our stock market? About 80 Americans have more money than 60% of the American population. I'm sure they " earned " that money. And you want to give these 80 oligarchs tax breaks? LOL. Come on.
The banks that own the corporations that own our politicians own the country. As long as Americans keep giving away every last inch of land, every last freedom that was promised to us in the Constitution those 80+ individuals will do as they will with the country and its sedated masses.
American corruption is no different than any other form of corruption other than the fact that Americans are in denial about it. Weve had a two party corporately sponsored " democracy " for hundreds of years and we still pretend voting matters andn we live in a true democracy?
When a group of oligarchs are given the power to print money as they see fit and charge the American tax payer interest for using their own money, and then relend that money to the same tax payer for more interest and then take those deposited funds and multiply them by 10 and relend that imaginary money to other tax payers, you know the country nor its people are free. Were living in one giant ponzi. Scheme. And all the window dressing in the world can't cover up this basic truth anymore.
" Truth is treason in an empire of lies". Or we can just say conspiracy and tin foil and all is forgotten.
It's not sad to me. I've been expecting to see the "great liberal experiment" collapse under it's own excesses and the mismanagement by it's inept architects.
MB, I recognize that you were disappointed at the Citizens United court decision and the resulting "super pac's gorging on money" because the American voters are now being exposed to more non-liberal points of view, but I would remind you that corporations are legal entities that cannot vote but are nevertheless required to pay taxes, a classic "taxation without representation" scenario.
If you don't want corporations pumping money into political issues, then stop taxing them. Otherwise, please accept that collective media purchases are the only method that corporations have to defend themselves against government attacks on their businesses and their income by every salivating politician and their "I want free money" constituents.
Thanks,
Jax.
P.S.: For those of you who are concerned about the impact of this on the Federal budget (liberals hereby excluded), if corporations were not taxed, their higher profits would be passed on as dividends to their stockholders who would subsequently pay more income taxes on their now higher income.
I do hope the average American understands that this can't last forever. Nothing lasts forever and monetary cycles have extremely short life spans. Kondratiev etc. Most Americans are willing to ride this out til the wheels fall off. They deserve what's coming to them. The rest will hedge accordingly.
Central banks and government entities around the world are now dominant players in the stock market with some $30 trillion invested in equities and other assets, according to a new survey released this week offering the first comprehensive analysis of public-sector investments. About half of that is from central banks. In other words, monetary authorities, which conjure fiat currency into existence out of thin air, are using much of that funny money to gobble up real assets propping up stock prices but eroding the value of peoples savings through inflation of the currency supply. The significance of the findings is monumental.
56 Trillion in the stock market and the feds and their owners own more than 70% of everything. And they are buying it up with our money and using us and our future tax earnings as collateral. What a passive conquered society we are. There is no such thing as the stock market. Its all rigged. Our country isnt even ours anymore. Our Constitution has been butchered. And all we got in return is drive thru and this stupid t shirt.
Congrats.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/markets/item/18520-central-banks-now-dominate-stock-market-study-finds
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/d9dfad02-f462-11e3-a143-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fd9dfad02-f462-11e3-a143-00144feabdc0.html%3Fsiteedition%3Duk&siteedition=uk&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fnews%2F2014-06-15%2Fcluster-central-banks-have-secretly-invested-29-trillion-market#axzz34ktExR6g
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/central-banks-becoming-major-investors-in-stock-markets-2014-06-16
http://www.secretsofthefed.com/central-banking-cartel-owns-almost-half-worlds-stock-markets/
That you for you insight as where where you believe the USA should go in terms of balancing the rights of individual citizen or residence vs the uber rich and corp rights. The framers of the USA constitution spoke of individual liberty and freedom of the individual. The USA has spent 200 years with a general set of political underpinnings. The view of the future you suggest is repulsive to many who are concerned about this misdirection. The origins of the tea party and occupy wall street share concerns about the misdirection towards basing politics upon tax liability. The tea party has been virtually coopted by the uber wealthy. The Koch brother announced this part week their budget for the next presidential election cycle. Their individual contributions are in the same range as the total spending by either the republicans or the democrats.
This type of concentration of political will is a nightmare and the end of the system of distribution of power as we have know it since the days of teddy roosevelt. We are headed back to the gilded age for whole sale political corruption is terms of the government acting for the benefit of the majority's self interest. Individuals can be manipulated by billions of dollars of public relations and propaganda. History will repeat it self as bad points out. This saddens anyone who view is about more than their individual tax bill and the next 2 years.
Maybe the USA constitution should be amended to permit business entities to have a vote. Since we only want to encourage power to big business, one vote for each ten billion dollars in net worth.
Yet when I have stated that the only legitimate purpose of government is the protection of individual rights I m berated by the leftist in the forum.
You can't have a little bit of rights violating.
Don B.
Corporations can't vote? Are you kidding me. Their vote is the only vote that matters.
Corporations are owned by the banks which are owned by American oligarchs. Who do you think owns 70% of our stock market? About 80 Americans have more money than 60% of the American population. I'm sure they " earned " that money. And you want to give these 80 oligarchs tax breaks? LOL. Come on.
The banks that own the corporations that own our politicians own the country. As long as Americans keep giving away every last inch of land, every last freedom that was promised to us in the Constitution those 80+ individuals will do as they will with the country and its sedated masses.
American corruption is no different than any other form of corruption other than the fact that Americans are in denial about it. Weve had a two party corporately sponsored " democracy " for hundreds of years and we still pretend voting matters andn we live in a true democracy?
When a group of oligarchs are given the power to print money as they see fit and charge the American tax payer interest for using their own money, and then relend that money to the same tax payer for more interest and then take those deposited funds and multiply them by 10 and relend that imaginary money to other tax payers, you know the country nor its people are free. Were living in one giant ponzi. Scheme. And all the window dressing in the world can't cover up this basic truth anymore.
" Truth is treason in an empire of lies". Or we can just say conspiracy and tin foil and all is forgotten.Badman, I share your abhorrence of crony capitalism, and believe it should be stamped out. If you're implying that the solution is taking away freedom of political speech though, I'd disagree, strongly.
I'm looking at a list of the world's wealthiest people, some of the 80 Americans who you say have more net worth than 60% of the American population. The companies that were created and owned in part by these people include Microsoft, Berkshire Hathaway, Oracle, Walmart, Facebook, Amazon, Google, and I could go on. You appear to be saying that we would all be better off if these companies had never been created? If we had a Socialist or Communist system so that ownership would be vested in government or the people? If so how do you think these companies would have ever gotten off the ground if the first place? I suspect I'm misinterpreting what you're trying to say. Please correct me.
I'm also not sure I understand what you're trying to say about the Fed and banks. Are you advocating something like the gold standard? Or just higher capital ratios and better regulations for banks, so that presumably they won't go bankrupt and leave the taxpayer holding the bag?
Banks do not own America or control the majority of American politicians. They do control some, like Hillary Clinton.
I do hope the average American understands that this can't last forever. Nothing lasts forever and monetary cycles have extremely short life spans. Kondratiev etc. Most Americans are willing to ride this out til the wheels fall off. They deserve what's coming to them. The rest will hedge accordingly.
56 Trillion in the stock market and the feds and their owners own more than 70% of everything. And they are buying it up with our money and using us and our future tax earnings as collateral. What a passive conquered society we are. There is no such thing as the stock market. Its all rigged. Our country isnt even ours anymore. Our Constitution has been butchered. And all we got in return is drive thru and this stupid t shirt.
Congrats.
http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/markets/item/18520-central-banks-now-dominate-stock-market-study-finds
http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/d9dfad02-f462-11e3-a143-00144feabdc0,Authorised=false.html?_i_location=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ft.com%2Fcms%2Fs%2F0%2Fd9dfad02-f462-11e3-a143-00144feabdc0.html%3Fsiteedition%3Duk&siteedition=uk&_i_referer=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.zerohedge.com%2Fnews%2F2014-06-15%2Fcluster-central-banks-have-secretly-invested-29-trillion-market#axzz34ktExR6g
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/central-banks-becoming-major-investors-in-stock-markets-2014-06-16
http://www.secretsofthefed.com/central-banking-cartel-owns-almost-half-worlds-stock-markets/I looked at your links, the ones that worked, and I'm more confused. They have to do with central banks, public pension funds, and sovereign wealth funds acquiring equities and other assets. The largest investor in the group is the central bank of China. So it's the Chinese government and other foreign governments that are going to own our politicians and our country, not American oligarchs and American private sector banks. The solution is to promote savings in the USA, as opposed to us continually borrowing more and more money from foreigners. Then we would fund more of our own investment, instead of relying on the Chinese et al. Turning our current account deficit to a surplus, say by exporting more and importing less, would accomplish the same thing. Sorry, I promised I wouldn't bring this up again, but this is one of the reasons I disagree with you about frac'ing. Increased oil production in the USA, which has replaced imports, has reduced our current account deficit, and thus our reliance on foreigners for savings and investment.
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