Job Offer in Bs As

[Dante1001]

Hi all.

I'm being offered an IT job in Bs As being paid approx 3500 pesos a month. Currently I work in Europe, earning multiple times that amount. I've worked in South America before, was in BA before and obviously the cost of living is lower. While I know more or less what locals earn I don't know the rates for expatriates. Is the figure I'm being offered reasonable for an IT professional and can I maintain a certain life standard in BA (I don't want to stay in a crammy studio and have to pick my pennies every day, which doesn't mean I want to be able to afford a house with a pool and tennis court. Also, I'm worried about the position of the peso, devaluation-wise.

Any input, feedback or suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[BadMan]

Dante,

Unless you are coming here with full relocation expenses and an additional per diem salary for living expenses. I would stay in Europe. It just doesn't make sense to come here to work a regular 9 to 5, no matter what Hunt says. I am guessing in Europe you are probably making at least 3 to 4 times that amount, and even though life is 3 times more expensive. I would much rather be making Euros than pesos.

I would say you would have to look at what your monthly expenses are and your monthly income and do the math. A quick summary would be:

Monthly apartment rental (1 bedroom unfurnished apt on long term lease in Palermo) minimum 500 - or +

Monthly apartment expenses (building fees and utilities) anywhere from 100 to 200 US.

Monthly grocery bill 200 US at least.

Then you must factor in miscellaneous items such as transportation and so on minimum another 100 US.

So with a salary of 1200 US (though 3500 pesos would be slightly less these days) you would be left with about 400-200 US.

Of course compared to Europe, this 1000 a month is chump change, but your salary is also considerably lower. You might be able to work those figures but not by much. The figures I gave you are about as low as they come.

I think if you are at least making money in dollars, then it would make some sense, but the truth is, you would need at least 1500 US to be able to breathe a little. Now if you are planning to buy an apartment here, that changes things. Then 1000 might be enough. If you subtract 500 from your expenses, then you could be left with about 600 US and that would be enough to have some fun.

Hope this was helpful,

Bad

[El Perro]

$3,500 pesos a month for someone accustomed to making a decent living in the states or Europe is squat. It would be a fine income for most portenos, but my guess is that you would feel financially cramped. I would pass on the offer, unless you have a major interest in living here for awhile, and can get back to Europe when you desire with the same job.

[Hunt99]

Make your money in Europe, but spend it on holiday for Argentine pussy, wine, and steaks.

[StrayLight]

I'm being offered an IT job in Bs As being paid approx 3500 pesos a month. Is the figure I'm being offered reasonable for an IT professional.Here are a couple of data points and few thoughts...

Just assume for a minute that you're going to be working something like a 40-hour week (but have you ever known an IT job to be only 40 hours a week?). $3,500 pesos a month figures out to be somewhere in the neighborhood of $22 pesos an hour.

An expat friend of mine writes small articles for a local magazine for about $50 pesos an hour, and he's not a writer by trade. He just happens to know something about the subject matter, and he knows the differences between adjectives and adverbs and subjects and objects. And that's what he was able to negotiate.

Another expat friend of mine works for a pretty big multinational corporation proof reading translations of Spanish to English. He gets about $4,000 pesos a month...a 4% raise every three months...and something like $400 pesos worth of food coupons a month. The guy has no prior experience doing this; he just happens to be able to speak both languages and talked his way into the position.

I recently picked up a small local writing gig for about $30 pesos an hour. It's not a full-time job, and salary is actually not my prime consideration. I could have probably negotiated for a bit more, but since the salary was secondary (actually tertiary) I took it at that. And I'm not a writer by trade.

So there are three small data points on salaries.

When you ask about reasonable salaries for IT professionals, "IT professional" is a broad term. Sysadmin? DBA? Network engineer? C++ programmer? Java programmer? Web developer? It appears to me that web developers are a dime a dozen down here; at least I seem to meet them all the time. So maybe $3,500 pesos a month for that is reasonable. On the other hand, I've not met any C++ programmers. They might be around here, but I haven't met one. So maybe $3,500 pesos is not reasonable for a C++ programmer.

And what's your experience level? The difference in salary between a 3 - 5 year guy is very different from that of a 12 - 15 year guy.

I tend to think that $3,500 pesos a month is low for a full-time IT guy, but without more info (your specialty, your experience level, etc.) it's kind of hard to say.

[Dante1001]

Thanks for all the input already guys!

Straylight, sent you a pm with more info.

[Thomaso276]

Subway workers make 3000 - 3500 monthly and work a 35 hour week, less strike time!

[BadMan]

An expat friend of mine writes small articles for a local magazine for about $50 pesos an hour, and he's not a writer by trade. He just happens to know something about the subject matter, and he knows the differences between adjectives and adverbs and subjects and objects. And that's what he was able to negotiate.

Another expat friend of mine works for a pretty big multinational corporation proof reading translations of Spanish to English. He gets about $4,000 pesos a month. A 4% raise every three months. And something like $400 pesos worth of food coupons a month. The guy has no prior experience doing this; he just happens to be able to speak both languages and talked his way into the position.

I recently picked up a small local writing gig for about $30 pesos an hour. It's not a full-time job, and salary is actually not my prime consideration. I could have probably negotiated for a bit more, but since the salary was secondary (actually tertiary) I took it at that. And I'm not a writer by trade.Great report Stray, it seems you just might get some of these lazy punters off the couch yet. After your report it actually sounds like it could be fun and not only give you some extra pocket money, but could actually give you something to do when not eating fat steaks and fucking phat poon tang.

Thanks for the report Stray, you have given me much to think about. (Now if only I could get a job auditioning all the local newbie talent at all the BA PV's):D.

Bad

[Redondo]

Subway workers make 3000 - 3500 monthly and work a 35 hour week, less strike time!They don't and it's not comparable

[Thomaso276]

They do:

http://elojociudadano.blogspot.com/2007/05/paro-de-subtes-y-otro-mas.html

Here is a quick look.

Veamos los salarios para un trabajador del subte, que está 6 horas:

• Peón General $2.425

• Boletero $2.811

• Guarda $3.051

• Conductor $4.080

• Conductor Especializado $4.388

And this may not include extra pay for age, kids, insurance. It is the unions ability to shut down many services here and the governement handling the negotiations. Gov't always pays out (see recent problems in South Arg. After disruptive actions. Man, a 6 hour workday - sounds like they are folowing the French model of work.

Dirk said it best - lots of raises with no increase in productivity. We live in the land of vacations.

[Redondo]

They do:

http://elojociudadano.blogspot.com/2007/05/paro-de-subtes-y-otro-mas.html

Here is a quick look.

Veamos los salarios para un trabajador del subte, que está 6 horas:

• Peón General $2.425

• Boletero $2.811

• Guarda $3.051

• Conductor $4.080

• Conductor Especializado $4.388

And this may not include extra pay for age, kids, insurance. It is the unions ability to shut down many services here and the governement handling the negotiations. Gov't always pays out (see recent problems in South Arg. After disruptive actions. Man, a 6 hour workday - sounds like they are folowing the French model of work.

Dirk said it best - lots of raises with no increase in productivity. We live in the land of vacations.Why don't you try to be Moyano's right hand man?

[El Perro]

Why don't you try to be Moyano's right hand man?Exactly! Thomaso is nothing but a shill for organized labor in Buenos Aires. He moonlights as a piquetero.

[Thomaso276]

That's me, Mr. Teamster. I had some experience with unions and on the whole they do good things and keep a balance to protect against abuse.

On the other hand some unions are the abusers. I think that is the case here, while in the States certain unions cannot strike because of the criical need for public services; there are heavy fines if they do.

The biggest problem I had with them is the lowest standard for the worst employee becomes the measuring stick for all others. While most employees want to do a good job, the slugs are allowed to muddle through and get the same advances of the better workers. We used to call them the sick (always calling off) lame (can't work with some minor injury) and lazy (take two hours to do a 30 minute task)

Glad to be retired.

Then again, I was not corrected on the salaries and hours of subway workers. "They don't and it's not comparable "

Gotta go now, taking the subway (I hope)

[Dante1001]

Some follow-up:

Taking into account all your advice as well as information gained from meeting the Argentina consul and the Human Resources manager of a big company in Bs As, I went back to them asking for an improved offer. The reply was:

********

We made you a job offer based on the interview and on the exercise we sent you. It is part of our hiring process to determine initial salaries based on the overall evaluation of each candidate. We have studied your application carefully and I would like to point out some details for you. As a matter of fact we would start paying for you $4477.00, which apart of what you receive in the bank includes top medical insurance, payment to a retirement plan, etc. (see below) As I mentioned in my last e-mail we would be paying for your flight to Argentina and accommodation during 3 months to make your arrival as easy as possible which would adds to the benefits included in your initial compensation. You might know from you experience here that renting an apartment is not an easy task. Regarding your concern about inflation (10% last year) probably you are not aware that salaries increased 20% since 2006, and there is another increase dictated by the government of 20% more for the remaining period until April 2008. Nevertheless as I also mentioned in my previous e-mail, we increase the salaries of our employees based on performance. I really think that you are capable of adding a lot of value to the team and that would be reflected on the reviews.

******

As this basically means they didn't improve the offer at all, I told them to (shove it) find someone else. Too bad, as I can't invite you all for a welcome drink in my new loft in Recoleta (ha) but, so be it.

Have fun, I'm sure I'll pass by again some time.

[Thomaso276]

4500 pesos (1500 dollars) a month is not alot, especially if the peso continues to devalue versus the dollar. Maybe next year your Arg salary is worth less in dollars!

Not sure what health plan they were talking about but if it wasn't Swiss med, a Private hospital or Osde then it may have been Obra Social which is the gov't plan and you go to public hospitals.

If the pension was, again, the gov't plan, you work for 30 years and get about 20 pesos a month (just kidding but you get shit - maybe a minimun of 800 pesos monthly) If you contribute and leave before retirement I do not know if you can get money out.

You can rent an apartment here, long term, without a guarantee you just have to work at it.

Govt inflation figures are off - more like 20-40 $% depending on the item. Yes, the gov't sets raises and they have averaged 18-20 % over the past two years - my local friends tell me that barley keeps up with inflation.

The only way to work here is for an international company that pays you in dollars or euros. Although 4500 a month is okay for a local college grad you would encounter your greatest fear:

"I don't want to stay in a crammy studio and have to pick my pennies every day"

You made a wise decision because prices here, while not on scale with europe are high enuff for what is provided.

Good luck.

[Exon123]

Some follow-up:

Taking into account all your advice as well as information gained from meeting the Argentina consul and the Human Resources manager of a big company in Bs As, I went back to them asking for an improved offer. The reply was:

********

We made you a job offer based on the interview and on the exercise we sent you. It is part of our hiring process to determine initial salaries based on the overall evaluation of each candidate. We have studied your application carefully and I would like to point out some details for you. As a matter of fact we would start paying for you $4477.00, which apart of what you receive in the bank includes top medical insurance, payment to a retirement plan, etc. (see below) As I mentioned in my last e-mail we would be paying for your flight to Argentina and accommodation during 3 months to make your arrival as easy as possible which would adds to the benefits included in your initial compensation. You might know from you experience here that renting an apartment is not an easy task. Regarding your concern about inflation (10% last year) probably you are not aware that salaries increased 20% since 2006, and there is another increase dictated by the government of 20% more for the remaining period until April 2008. Nevertheless as I also mentioned in my previous e-mail, we increase the salaries of our employees based on performance. I really think that you are capable of adding a lot of value to the team and that would be reflected on the reviews.

******

As this basically means they didn't improve the offer at all, I told them to (shove it) find someone else. Too bad, as I can't invite you all for a welcome drink in my new loft in Recoleta (ha) but, so be it.

Have fun, I'm sure I'll pass by again some time.Dante1001,

You did the right thing by telling them no. They werelieing to you when he said inflation was 10% last year. On that basis alone I wouldn't touch the guy. Hes asking you to move halfway around the world, change your whole life, all baised on his lie for "Chump Change", The guy was lieing to you and he knows it and you know it.

Write the guy back and ask him, "You ment $4477 dollars, right, not peso's".

Exon

[Geo Eye]

Some follow-up:

Taking into account all your advice as well as information gained from meeting the Argentina consul and the Human Resources manager of a big company in Bs As, I went back to them asking for an improved offer. The reply was:

********

******

As this basically means they didn't improve the offer at all, I told them to (shove it) find someone else. Too bad, as I can't invite you all for a welcome drink in my new loft in Recoleta (ha) but, so be it.

Have fun, I'm sure I'll pass by again some time.If it was dollars Dante, I would take it on the cost basis, that the money you will save on hookers, if you average one a day and you pay 200 peso per hooker vs $200 dollars in the States you will save $137 a day. That is over $3500 a month and that includes taking Sundays off.

And I do not know about you, but fucking a different 20 yr old everyday is heaven on earth to me.

[Redondo]

First 3 months = 150 peso a day.

After that = 4500 - 1500 peso rent = 3000 peso = 100 peso a day.

I think you can live comfortable in BA if you have a job with about 50 to 75 peso a day (without pussy) so you should even have some money to travel.

Get clear targets for promotions as well.