View Full Version : Child custody issues
I have an Argentine friend that became pregnant a few years ago during a one/two weekend stand. She's a flight attendant that was staying over in Europe at the time, the father is Scottish.
My friend is starting a paternity suit against this guy, who has disowned her and the kid since day one. She wants the last name and British citizenship for the kid and half of expenses. She tells me there are international laws/rights covering this. Supposedly the court in her Argentine jurisdiction will pass her claim on to the proper court in Scotland, which will cite the father and eventually run DNA tests if necessary.
I tell her it may work that way in theory, but an international paternity suit sounds like a very long shot.
Does anyone know anything about this?
Moore,
I don't know the details but I heard that brasilian girls are doing it a lot.
You may post a question on the ISG / Brasil forum.
Thomaso276
09-13-06, 10:31
Why doesn't she just schedule some flights to Scotland and hire a lawyer there?
Thomaso is absolutely right. If the guy is in the UK, suing him there is the way to go. Scotland isn't going to automatically recognize any judgments as to paternity issued by a Banana Republic court. Eventually she's going to end up in court there anyway to prove her Argentine judgment isn't fraudulent, so why not start there, too?
But as the others said, the best thing to do is hire a local solicitor. Paternity suits this days should be relatively easy because of the use of DNA tests. The first thing her lawer should do is request the court to obtain samples from the pressumed father and take it from there. It will be costly, but the only way to it.
Initiating a claim in the UK jurisdiction of the defendant definitely seems better. However, her funds, time, and English are quite limited. I don't think she's ever been to the UK and such a task would probably be quite daunting for a young Argentine girl from provincia. But it may be her only option if this drags on for years with no result. She'd have to save up some coin for UK legal/travel/other costs and then maybe include them in her claim.
This may in fact be easier than you think, and is probably changing continually, given the rapidly changing attitudes on paternity issues. Look at the worldwide changes in the rules for travelling with a minor to prevent a foreign parent from taking a child to their home country to retain / obtain custody.
I don't know this directly, and I hate to give support to women's groups in general (largely because of their abuses in the US and British Commonwealth) but I would bet that there are women's groups that help with this sort of thing.
It might be useful to look around a little in the internet. You have to decide for yourself where you stand on using said groups.
The best thing would have been to find a coat hanger. Of course, there are really two possibilities:
1) She became pregnant by a Scottish guy during a one night stand, and.
2) She became pregnant by somebody and this guy had the most money.
There is much in what you say, Dickhead. She may have wanted to keep the kid for exactly that reason, and / or she may be very religious.
For general information, a coathanger probably would not have been necessary. From discussions I have had with women, this service is generally available, and not in someone's kitchen. It appears some of the clinics are quite liberal with regular (known) customers. The cost is supposedly about $ar500-600 during the 1st 3 months.
Most of the women I have known have had an ongoing working relationship with some doctor / clinic to help with all the various problems that can befall a woman's reproductive system.
This past week I was in BA to see the ex and was delighted to meet her 1 year old son. As we have just been talking as of late, the sight of him and feeling of him in my arms made me feel like perhaps he might be my son! So she pleasantly agreed to be tested at the Hospital Aleman and we all went there to take blood samples and now once some papers are dropped off, I will know if I have a beautiful son in BA. I know her and she is NOT money motivated, so please refrain from that direction.
Questions for the board. I beleive the hospital and doctor of 31 years to be knowledgeable? Do they know what they are doing there?
If he is mine, what chance do I have for part custody, visitation, etc. I do have a lawyer there, but? Can he come here?
How do I keep her from living with a deadbeat guy, sometimes druggie?
Overall I am thrilled, but do not want to waste money in the wrong direction.
I appreciate any info.
How do I keep her from living with a deadbeat guy, sometimes druggie?Marry her, perhaps?
If the kid is yours you have rights and obligations. It's fairly easy for you (with your lawyer) to draw out a plan of visiting rights. To be able to take the kid out of the country isn't so easy. It depends on the mother trusting you will return with him. But to apply for these rights you must also pay monthly for the kids up keeping.
And how to keep her from living with a deadbeat guy, Hunt's advice is about the only way.
Thomaso276
09-12-07, 14:44
Anyone under 21 cannot leave the country without permission of both parents, same needed for getting a passport for Arg. Kids.
I greatly appreicate the responses to date. I have offered marriage, but she to date has refused. Her response has been we will talk more when we know the results of the tests. Regarding visitation does it appear that it is worked out between us or in acourt with documents? If I can show that her living with a felon, drug user, numerous restraining orders, would the court ever give full placement to an Americano? Would I actually go to court to have the child have my name? I do have a lawyer, but you know how that goes.
I was just wondering how Argentina felt about men and their ability / rights to be involved in a childs life.
I met the doctor and she seems to be very staight foward, although once she heard my castillano, the price for the test was more. When my ex shows up with the documents is it past a doctor to doctor the results? I guess anything is possible.
I am a little perplexed why she would avoid me for 1 1/2 years and then reasonably offer to go for the tests. She is never money hungry, more the opposite, she believes she can raise the child on her own, does not really make a differnece who the father is? Not my philosophy.
I guess if it where you, would you try the soft approach and see what happens. Thanks for any comments.
As for your friend wanting to raise the child herself, realize that this is more or less normal here. In my barrio, very few girls don't have children and most live with their parents, alone or with another girl who has kids. I don't understand it either, but that seems to be the thing here. Two years ago I had a friend return with a child that she said was mine. She is a paraguasha, not a morocha, but dark hair, eyes etc. The baby has blonde hair and blue eyes. I wanted to go for a blood test myself, explaining to her that if nothing else the kid is entitled to a US passport etc., etc. She declined and has not asked for anything either! She passes through every once in a while, puts a smile on my face, and then leaves before we even have a chance to talk! Go figure?
This past week I was in BA to see the ex and was delighted to meet her 1 year old son. As we have just been talking as of late, the sight of him and feeling of him in my arms made me feel like perhaps he might be my son! So she pleasantly agreed to be tested at the Hospital Aleman and we all went there to take blood samples and now once some papers are dropped off, I will know if I have a beautiful son in BA. I know her and she is NOT money motivated, so please refrain from that direction.
Questions for the board. I beleive the hospital and doctor of 31 years to be knowledgeable? Do they know what they are doing there?
If he is mine, what chance do I have for part custody, visitation, etc. I do have a lawyer there, but? Can he come here?
How do I keep her from living with a deadbeat guy, sometimes druggie?
Overall I am thrilled, but do not want to waste money in the wrong direction.
I appreciate any info.Master J, you might want to purchase one of the two booklets listed on this site regarding the protection of minors. Checkout the booklets, "Legislacion de los Menores", and "Legislacion de Familia y Menores".
http://edicionesdelpais.com.ar/catalog/index.php?cPath=24_33
Either one of these booklets will give you a thorough grounding of what constitutes abuse of a minor, rights of fathers, mothers, and most important of all you will know after a quick read the steps on how to file a claim (denuncia) if you need to go that route. After you read one of these booklets you will be up to speed with your attorney or possibly know more than him.
Also, next time you are in town, you might want to actually go to Lavalle 1282, Piso 1°, officina 8 why 10 to buy the booklets and see the building in which you would file a claim and actually talk to one of the women who would receive the claim. The rights of fathers and mothers are fairly high in Argentina, especially in Capital Federal (different legislation in Provincia), however, the rights of minors are some of the best I've seen written in democratic countries.
Suerte.
She (and other Argentine woman) prefer to be a single parent because if the father claims his rights she can never take her kid out of the country without his written consent even if he does not pay his share.
That is probally the main reason they prefer to be single mother.
P. S. Thread starter, which relation did you have with the mother?
I had been involved with this girl for the past 4 years, she came to US 2 1/2 years ago fiance visa, things did not work out quite right for her so she left. I went there again perhaps 2 years ago, One night together, boom, intentional attempt on both parties. Then no word from her. Seems she was with her ex living, but he is a bit of a problem, loser. Then she moved back home three months ago. I had been in touch her mom all this time trying to see what was happening. So when I said I was coming there to see her and the baby, who all this time she said was definatley not mine, she said OK. The first night I see them, I see myself when I was 1. Hair, skin color, nose, lips. She makes the effort to visit with me 5 more times, everbody happy! She then agrees to go to the hospital for the blood check, but baby does not have birth cirtificate, so we await that part.
So if the results prove out, and I have a claim to the child not as her husband, but as his father, then even if she lives alone, while she still works and plays with this guy, she is still locked into the same issues of travel, etc. She does not have money for future travel. I am hoping she is doing this so that this son has a right to know who his father is. Then we will see.
Thomaso276
09-13-07, 22:35
"She then agrees to go to the hospital for the blood check, but baby does not have birth cirtificate, so we await that part.?
I am prety sure all babies have to have a registered birth and the father named on the papers. You might want to check with a family lawyer. PM if you want a recomendation for one.
You are correct Tomaso, all child births have to be registered unless the kid was born at home and with some "midwife" instead of a doctor.
Before a mother is allowed to take the kid out of the hospital she has to register it. Most state hospitals have their own registry office and most private hospitals have an employee from a registry come every day for a few hours to register the births.
But there is no need to have the father named on the papers. Many times the girl doesn't know who the father is (or doesn't want to) so the kid gets the mother's last name. This is a smart move as the mother will not need the father's permission if she decides to take the kid out of the country or many other things. Of course we are talking about an absent father who doesn't care, but if the father at any time in the future wants to "recognize" the kid he can and have the surname changed.
Facundo's advice about buying the books is well worth taking.
This might be a bit unrelated but I wonder what a father should pay monthly?
Let's say the following case.
Mother lives on a 2000 peso job, father has an income of 150.000 peso a year. They go to court, is the allowance be based on the cost of living in Argentina (with 1000-1500 peso a month you should be able to give a kid a good future) or is it based on the earnings the father has?
And what if the father does not have residence in Argentina, where should this legal battle be fought?
And what if you are for example American with a residence in a third country, and your kid and mother are from Argentina?
That's a very good question. In the case of the father living in Argentina it's a % of the wage or monthly income. This % can be more or less depending on many factors and how well your lawyer has negotiated.
In the case of the father not living in Argentina I suppose it's a question of negotiating $$$ for visiting rights. I'll try and find out with more detail.
That's a very good question. In the case of the father living in Argentina it's a % of the wage or monthly income. This % can be more or less depending on many factors and how well your lawyer has negotiated.
In the case of the father not living in Argentina I suppose it's a question of negotiating $$$ for visiting rights. I'll try and find out with more detail.I think in Holland and in most Western countries it depends on prior standard of living. So in Holland it would probally translate to something like 1000 peso a month.
But I can imagine that the father in Argentina needs to pay a lot more then the 1000 peso a month. It seems that's not fair, because the mother never lived with a lot of money.
Having been divorced once, the care of my children and the comfort of their mother has always been a priority. Thank goodness I had married a reasonable women the first time and she trusted my judgement, which has paid off over the years.
In this situation I supported my girlfriend previously because I am in a position to do so and she has never taken advantage. With the possibility of us sharing a child, I wll certainly make contributions to make sure my child is safe and secure and will grow up knowing his father. I trust we will work out a better agreement than any lawyer possible can. Thank you though for the guidelines of what might happen.
Having just finished a consultation meeting today, advice was offered that the samples just recently taken in Aleman Hospital might perhaps be better conrtroled if I have the samples analyzed here. How stupid of me at that time to not request a duplicate sample of the blood to have it analyzed here. Uggghhhh, why didn't I think of that. How do you duplicate samples now? Now I am waiting to see if she goes to drop off the birth certificate of the doctor has the right samples in her hand.
Doctos says they will fax the results once they are through, but how do I know the results are right. New territory for me.
Also the subject came up of working part of the time in BA. Does anyone know if on a three month re-entry thing, can I work for a company or have a wholesale business here. I appreciate any information regarding both topics.
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Master J,
With all due respect, the subject of this thread is "Child custody issues". If you want to discuss visa issues and /or working in Argentina, then please post in the established threads for those subjects.
Thanks,
Jackson
Hey, Master J.
Man, what you've talking about, alot of us are hanging on every word, myself included. And please keep it coming. But You've got to be one Fucked up "MorherFucker", (and thats not all bad), But, Its sorta rare when you run across a responciable "Monger"
But chill out.
Exon
Exon, thank you for your settling comments. I am truly a type A and I do need to be told when to heel, so thanks.
I think I am getting what has happened here. I believe with every conversation that she is passing the rights to me to be the father, or she knew all along. Either way, when I now call she puts the phone up to his ear to talk, or tonite she is talking with me while he plays in the backround. Everytime I say I am happy and that a child needs both parents in his life she say's yes that true. I do not think she is really re-interested in me, but perhaps patience will improve the situation.
Thank you for the encouragement with sharing this rather personal tale. I will let you know when my DNA swat team hits the Aleman!
I have spared the board form the excruciating agony of waiting for my results this past month because I try to remember the true purpose of the board. It has been hell.
Over the past month I have been in touch with the girls in question and we have been freindly, enjoying most of the conversations, and when questioning if she was really interested in finding out the results, she was distant saying she was the mother.
I send down some noice clothes for the kid, who really attatched with, and every time I called the mother would put the phone to his ears and say that I was on the phone.
Her mother one day said that when he opened up my last package, he even started crying because he missed me! Great.
We talk about perhaps houses in Adrogue, me coming in January, sounds cute. Then I call about a week ago, and the " other man", father of her first child after 4 years answers the phone. He says hello and even goes as far as to wake her up to speak with me. Curious I mention, I thought your mother did'nt allow him in the house? Reply is ask her. I call next day and she say's it is for the benefit of the kids. Does'nt sound right out of no where, but OK?
Cut to the Chase, I call the doctor today, and she says she would fax the results or email. I say please can you just tell me yes or no? She says no the report is too large. She says do you have anyone who speaks Castillano? So I head to office and my El Salvadorian freind speaks with the doctor and I say please no more castigo, and the doctor relents and says no, it is not my son. Very professional Doctor, always avaialable, great find, thanks for the gringo overcharge though.
So it certainly looks like it is time to move on, but I still have some unanswered questions, my style.
1 - When I asked her if she was faithful when we were together, she says, yes she was with him 2 weeks after me. But why I truly never thought the child was mine was we were together in end November 2005 and the baby was born mid July, only giving 8 months. How does he sneak in two weeks later and it is a shorter time period.
2 - Why. Why go through all this when she knew all along she was with him before. Did he ask because the child does not look like him? Or did she have her doubts and wanted me to jump through hoops. Or was there ever really a doubt, then why?
3 - The result from the hospital were very accurate and formal. Doctor was very clear they could not be altered. So really instead of a circle jerk for myself is there any point in double checking? There was a resemblance, but so what.
So all in all, I guess I am glad to get clarity on the matter. When I said recently that if the baby was not mine, then there really was nothing to talk about anymore, she said surprisingly, why?
If I come in January, perhaps it would be better suited if I hang with the guys, and move on. Thank to all for your understanding and well received comments. I don't get it. Out. (Jackson, I hope you are OK with the post in this section)
DrakeCapital
10-30-07, 22:32
Although you will not want to hear this, I feel it will help more in the long run. From my past experiences, and lucid external observation (no emotion involved) you were clearly being led on. Every single topic you mention is NOT supportive of your hopes. It's so obvious when the guy answers the phone. Additionally, each item IS indicative of typical "girl games".
Be happy you enjoyed her time (and pussy) and leave it at that. No matter how much you think about it, the facts are you were deceived. That is not a problem by itself as long as you get on with things. Continuing the drama will hurt, embarass you, and not result in what you seek from this girl.
Good luck
Couldn't agree more with Drake C. Not to be callous about your situation, but you dodged a bullet that never was.
So you boned a hooker?
Who cares, most on this forum do.
So you got her pregnant?
You stupid you forgot about rule number 1 NEVER GET A HOOKER PREGANT In case you didn't get it, I said NEVER.
She is a hooker, a girl with issues, from a poor background, etc. And she will NEVER, yes I said NEVER be a good mother for your kid.
So what do I do if she is pregnant?
If you can morally handle it get the fuck out and let her deal with her own issues. If you can't handle that your kid will be raised in a bad background talk about a abortion.
What if she does want to have the kid?
Make her do an abortion, this is not up for debate because it's the best solution.
What if she still wants to have the kid?
Offer more money, do whatever it takes to make her do an abortion because the last thing you should want is a kid from a hooker.
So what is rule number 2:
Don't tell the girl your real name, if you are a pilot, tell her you are a car salesman, if you are from the US tell her you are from Canada, if your name is Peter tell her your name is John. Use prepagas with other last names, use Hotmail adresses without your name, don't tell her where you live, bone her at a telo, etc.
And what is rule number 3:
Never get a girl pregnant who is from a different background or from a different social class. If you get a girl pregnant make sure she is from the better areas in BA, comes from a normal family, has a job or studies. If you don't you will be seen as a wallet and not as the father of her son / daughter.
So that was about it and I wish you more wisdom for next time
Daddy Rulz
10-31-07, 12:00
She is a hooker, a girl with issues, from a poor background, etc. And she will NEVER, yes I said NEVER be a good mother for your kid. Rosie is a pretty good Mom. I know a girl that used to be a hooker and married a "client" they have a kid and she's an excellent Mom.
As to the rest Redondo is right, Never get a hooker pregnant.
I'm just glad Master J got away with his shirt, this Chica played him.
Exon
If you get a hooker pregnant and she claims its yours as you are a regular of hers, who is repsonsible for paying for this DNA test, as she could be just bullshitting and trying it on all her regulars
If I got a hooker pregnant, my biggest concern would be, who pays for the DNA test? I think I would be so consumed with this question of who pays for the DNA test, I wouldn't be able to think about anything else. In fact, it would probably so distract me I would accidentally get another hooker pregnant, even.
I hope somebody answers this question soon. I will feel much better knowing before I get a hooker pregnant, who will pay for the DNA test afterwards?
During the Perón administration in the mid-1950s Argentina established an official agency to determine paternity or lack thereof on the part of immigrant visitors. I believe this agency is called the Agencia de Paternidad de Extranjeros. They have the final authority on all of this. If one is accused of paternity one must post a security bond (I believe it is now $10,000) and surrender one's passport. Then a sperm test is conducted in their facility in the district 31 neighborhood near Retiro. This is a very serious situation where the sample is collected in a sealed container and then is sent to the government laboratory located at 359 Maipú. Here the sample is examined for taste and quality by highly trained experts and if the donor is determined to be the putative father, he must pay another 90 pesos for a second sperm sample to be orally extracted and then this is hygenically spat into another sealed container, typically a toilet but it could also be a sink, a wastebasket, a kleenex, or another officially approved device.
For this reason, it is always advisable after having unprotected sex with an Argentinean hooker to insist that she immediately douche with Coca Cola Light, insert two aspirin tablets in her vagina, and then jump up and down 100 times while banging a pot with a wooden spoon.
A small (and irresponsible) minority of those who have been accused in this fashion have chosen to forfeit the $10,000 surety bond and simply leave the country. However this in no way eliminates the need to pay the $18 US exit tax at the airport so keep that firmly in mind.
Good work Monger, if you spend less time with your critique of the question, (I guess in search of laughs or praise from who knows who? You might see the other side of this. This was just a question not a personal situation. If the law is as such that the owness is not on the accused to the pay the DNA test, then it would prevent the possibility of the hooker just trying too extort money from a innocent victim. If she has some financial responsibility for this test then you can be rest assured that she will be quite certain YOU are the one before entering this process.
This accusation happened to an American I met in RIO and it wasnt his and he paid for the test and then tried to go after her for the expense, goodluck!
But thanks anyway for your intelligent 2 pesos!
If I got a hooker pregnant, my biggest concern would be, who pays for the DNA test? I think I would be so consumed with this question of who pays for the DNA test, I wouldn't be able to think about anything else. In fact, it would probably so distract me I would accidentally get another hooker pregnant, even.
I hope somebody answers this question soon. I will feel much better knowing before I get a hooker pregnant, who will pay for the DNA test afterwards?
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