View Full Version : How do guys support themselves in Argentina?
Hey guys, Borat69 here, senior member from ISG. I am thinking of moving from the UK over to BA. For me this is a huge move - it means leaving my proper career and instead maybe becoming an 'entrepreneur' of some sort.
I have NO idea what I'm going to do for money at this stage, but I do have some friends over there who seem to be doing well with their internet businesses. I wonder if there are any other opportunities though. I would love any thoughts / advice since for me this is a big difference from where I'm at right now.
Thanks.
B
Jaimito Cartero
10-11-07, 22:23
I wouldn't drop everything and head over. Build up an successful business that you can operate over the internet, work out all the bugs, and then go for it. The economy in Argentina is also changing, so what might seem cheap now, might be double the price 2 years from now.
Borat,
If you have an existing business that needs nothing but high speed internet access to be done, you can as well do it from Buenos Aires. To drop everything, come here and try starting something sounds just plain stupid to me, unless you have such a financial background that you don't really need that business.
Otherwise, there are a few profitable fields where to invest in Argentina. Agriculture is still the #1 export business. Real estate, compared with NYC, London and Barcelona Bs. As is still dead cheap. Compared with Bs. As. 5 years ago it's terribly expensive.
What you better forget, is anything that caters to the local economy. That will at it's best get you a local income, and that's probably not what you want.
The best advice: before deciding anything, come here for some time (not just a week, more like a month or 2) rent an apartment, get a feeling for this place, meet some people, etc.
Btw. I assume you speak some decent spanish. If not, learn it.
Just some thoughts,
El Alemán
Borat,
Things don't work here like in the UK.
El Aleman and Jaime's advice is very sound. Come here for some time, get a feel for the place. Many things you take for granted in Britain or Europe aren't like that in this country.
It doesn't mean you can't make a living here or even a little fortune. It's just DIFFERENT.
Unless I had some very specilized trade it would scare me to death to try and earn a living in Argentina.
Exon
Unless I had some very specilized trade it would scare me to death to try and earn a living in Argentina.
ExonExon, you could become a fly fishing guide.
Greg Mason
10-12-07, 19:33
From own experience I can tell you, that one of the most important things to do is, learning or have learned local language. It is not enough to have some friends which helps you, also it is necessary to be able to easily comunicate with the locals. It makes also a difference if you had learned spanish in any other country. Myself lived for 10 years in Mexico, and the first trips to argentina was terrible, until I started to understood many local terms of the "porteños".
Greg
[QUOTE=Borat69]Hey guys, Borat69 here, senior member from ISG. I am thinking of moving from the UK over to BA. For me this is a huge move - it means leaving my proper career and instead maybe becoming an 'entrepreneur' of some sort.
Running a business in Argentina that is dependent on local labour and other imput costs is really only for the very brave or locals that are so adaptable, quick off the mark and absolutely unprincipled. The brave become the sacrificial lambs. Almost all the multi-nationals that have survived here make money by being very, very conservative in their business planning. Many have failed and retreated. And most that have survived, most times wish they were not here.
Remember these very pertinent points.
There is no rule of law. Sure it exists but as Charles Darwin observed when he was here, the judiciary are available to the highest bidder. It hasn't changed.
Circumstances change rapidly. And I mean rapidly. Impossible to have a business plan further out than a few months. In construction for example, labour costs have doubled in 12 months and sand has tripled. I am not familiar with other construction imputs but feel confident that they have increased markedly since I last costed them. So how can you do a 3 year property development and profit? Normally the developers play 'pass the parcel' with the financial risk, but in the end, someone gets burnt bigtime and in the past this has usually been foreign lenders attracted by the margins and their own cleverness. And this applies to all the businesses that I have been associated with over 18 years. Argentinos are extremely adept at not committing themselves or their money to a business deal. Period. Sure they want a big slice of the upside, but never, none of the down.
Exporting is a nightmare. I buy second-hand goods and export them. At present I have not been able to ship a container since June. Export rules are not transparent and the Argentine Customs / Aduana are adept at finding ways to fuck up shipments. Such ways can sometimes disappear on the receipt of a quoima and sometimes not, but since there are many links in the export chain, all asking for grease, who do you pay? I don't have an easy answer and in the absence of a guaranteed outcome, generally try to adhere to the rules. At the moment it is not working.
Inefficiency! In everything. So either be prepared to accept that is the way it is or don't try and set up a business.
My business works because there is only a market price for my goods, not a production cost. In effect I am in many ways isolated from the cost of production. I am affected by cost of living but since this is a relatively minor imput, I don't really worry about it.
So Borat69, endeth my imput.
Exon, you could become a fly fishing guide.Not possible with the "Cheap CockSuckers" that post on this board.
Exon
Heres an opportunity to earn a living in Argentina.
You could buy one of Saints Franchise Opportunities, I believe the one in Cordaba is available.
http://www.apartmentsba.com/franchise-opportunities-75/
Exon
Ahem - fly fishing and exporting.
Exon, I don't know how to do the former, but I am sure the 2 of us would find a way to get along during a trip. I would take along enogh cooking utensils to prepare the fish in case we catch some, and enough Malbec to get drunk otherwise. And certainly some dessert, placed conveniently between 2 nice legs.
I can add a few items to Argento's horror list.
VAT, Value Added Tax, is in theory a very straightforward thing. It is, in fact, in the European Community. You file your monthly report, and if you have a credit (which is the rule in an export business) the government money appears on your account just a few days later.
Not so in Argentina. Expect your VAT reimbursement to be delayed for up to a year, for the most stupid reasons.
Bureaucratic hassles. We are working since July on the process of transferring a pickup truck from one company to the other. The problem is, that a notary 15 years ago made a typo in the statutes of the selling company, and the motor vehicle registry now claims they are not the legal owner. BS like this happens every day.
I do own a business over here, and it is run by a local guy who has been doing that for the last 20 years, and we still run into that kind of shit. Alone, I would be helpless, even with a decent command of the language. It is far from passing as a porteño.
2 cents from.
El Alemán
BundaLover
10-16-07, 01:29
So we have the capital intensive option such as real estate development with its inherent risks and lack of leverage in Argentina, the export widgits model, and the "be a world class expert with portable skill set and use the internet to communicate" model. I'm not intereseted in any of these. Oh, we also have the "be a clueless newbie and open a retail operation and compete in this society with locals that have been doing it for a lot longer".
I have one. Its not glamerous but. Who spends money? Tourists. So caputure some of that. Limo fleet? (low margin, lots of headaches) specilized tours (little capital- requires charm and language- hire pretty college students) Sell man-hours not items.
Comments?
Thomaso276
10-16-07, 11:12
I saw one of the few limos the other day in front of the Marriot Hotel at Plaza San Martin, white Cadillac, had to be around a 86-87.
Apparently the limo business has little demand otherwise you would think the fleet would be upgraded to something from the 90's!
[QUOTE=Borat69]Hey guys, Borat69 here, senior member from ISG. I am thinking of moving from the UK over to BA. For me this is a huge move - it means leaving my proper career and instead maybe becoming an 'entrepreneur' of some sort.
Running a business in Argentina that is dependent on local labour and other imput costs is really only for the very brave or locals that are so adaptable, quick off the mark and absolutely unprincipled. The brave become the sacrificial lambs. Almost all the multi-nationals that have survived here make money by being very, very conservative in their business planning. Many have failed and retreated. And most that have survived, most times wish they were not here.
Remember these very pertinent points.
There is no rule of law. Sure it exists but as Charles Darwin observed when he was here, the judiciary are available to the highest bidder. It hasn't changed.
Circumstances change rapidly. And I mean rapidly. Impossible to have a business plan further out than a few months. In construction for example, labour costs have doubled in 12 months and sand has tripled. I am not familiar with other construction imputs but feel confident that they have increased markedly since I last costed them. So how can you do a 3 year property development and profit? Normally the developers play 'pass the parcel' with the financial risk, but in the end, someone gets burnt bigtime and in the past this has usually been foreign lenders attracted by the margins and their own cleverness. And this applies to all the businesses that I have been associated with over 18 years. Argentinos are extremely adept at not committing themselves or their money to a business deal. Period. Sure they want a big slice of the upside, but never, none of the down.
Exporting is a nightmare. I buy second-hand goods and export them. At present I have not been able to ship a container since June. Export rules are not transparent and the Argentine Customs / Aduana are adept at finding ways to fuck up shipments. Such ways can sometimes disappear on the receipt of a quoima and sometimes not, but since there are many links in the export chain, all asking for grease, who do you pay? I don't have an easy answer and in the absence of a guaranteed outcome, generally try to adhere to the rules. At the moment it is not working.
Inefficiency! In everything. So either be prepared to accept that is the way it is or don't try and set up a business.
My business works because there is only a market price for my goods, not a production cost. In effect I am in many ways isolated from the cost of production. I am affected by cost of living but since this is a relatively minor imput, I don't really worry about it.
So Borat69, endeth my imput.The problem of the rising costs is everywhere. The bigest Dutch construction firm has run into trouble because they have sold offices at fixed prices and construction prices have risen faster then expected.
If you bought a new truck in 2005 in Holland you can now sell it at the same price but with 2 years of service.
Rob Brazil
10-22-07, 03:07
Argento probably offers the best advice. South America is a tough place to make money. I live in both Brazil and Argentina and its tough to make money in either place. Most expats I've met here are either retired and living on pensions or they have a business they can work over the internet.
Its not impossible. I have met some Americans that have done well both in Argentina and Brazil but they were few and far between and they had a lot of connections and money.
I have seen more forigners have to pack up and go back home as they ran out of money. Its fun for vacation but not the best place to move to unless you already have a lot of money.
I work over the internet and I was lucky and bought some properties in both Brazil and Buenos Aires and I rent them out so that brings in more money than my business.
It can be done but its tough.
Argento probably offers the best advice. South America is a tough place to make money. I live in both Brazil and Argentina and its tough to make money in either place. Most expats I've met here are either retired and living on pensions or they have a business they can work over the internet.
Its not impossible. I have met some Americans that have done well both in Argentina and Brazil but they were few and far between and they had a lot of connections and money.
I have seen more forigners have to pack up and go back home as they ran out of money. Its fun for vacation but not the best place to move to unless you already have a lot of money.
I work over the internet and I was lucky and bought some properties in both Brazil and Buenos Aires and I rent them out so that brings in more money than my business.
It can be done but its tough.I prefer to live off interest if I have that kind of money, but hey anything to stay ocupied.
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