PDA

View Full Version : Prostitution and the Law.



Hound
10-26-07, 18:39
Below is a copy of a blog page I happened across related to prostitution and the legality of same in BsAs. Included is part of an interview on the topic with assistant DA Jorge Cevasco. I found it a good read.

Most evenings at around 8pm I exit the subway station at Congreso de Tucuman in northern Belgrano. When doing so, I often pass a scruffy young man who stands atop the station steps. He usually thrusts his hand in front of my chest, indicating he wants to give me something. It's a folleto, a little rectangular pamphlet. It has a photo of a voluptuous, scantily-clad woman on it, as well as phone numbers and sometimes even a colorful map on the back.

It's a map of my neighborhood, but not one that gives directions to a nearby restaurant or supermarket. Instead, it details the path to the neighborhood whorehouse. The pamphlet advertises "promotions" starting at 30 pesos. What do you get for that? I haven't tried to cash-in my "coupon," but it's not hard to imagine.

Depending on your mindset, you might think this is shameful - an outrage and an affront to family values and residential hygiene. But not everyone thinks this way, particularly those who grab the pamphlet and head straight to the house of pleasure. "Dude, I wanna live in your neighborhood," a friend jokingly said last week.

Whatever the case, this commentary is not about the morality of prostitution. It's about the legality and marketing of it. I have lived in Buenos Aires - and in many of its neighborhoods - for the better part of 12 years. Never have I seen a more pervasive proliferation of prostitution publicity than what I've seen over the past few months. It's nearly everywhere, it seems. Though not in all barrios, my guess is that it would be hard for a male to walk the city from day to night without encountering at least one - and perhaps many - ads for paid sexual services. In my neighborhood there are many such ads and many such places.

Of course, there is nothing new about escort services or male entertainment clubs in downtown, in Recoleta or in any other part of the world. After all, it's the oldest profession in the world, right? But based on my own (admittedly unscientific) observations of street-level propaganda, it appears that similar clubs - and even full-blown bordellos - are becoming somewhat more common in other areas, too. This is not even to mention the proliferation of "massage" parlors or "relax" services that are advertised in various parts of Barrio Belgrano, downtown, Nuñez, Palermo and elsewhere.

Journalist and Curious George that I am, I took my questions about this matter to the district attorney's office for an interview. I'll soon post the full interview, as well as a broader look at prostitution, on Scooping Argentina. For now you can see some of my questions - and the answers to them - here:

Scooping Argentina: Is prostitution legal in Buenos Aires?

Assistant DA Luis Jorge Cevasco: Yes, though there are certain ways of working as a prostitute that are illegal. There are no laws that sanction people for charging money to have sex. But it is illegal to carry out sex acts in whorehouses.

SA: Do you have an official estimate of how many prostitutes there are in Buenos Aires?

LJC: I don't. But I would say that for a city the size of Buenos Aires, which has around 3 million people, the number is not excessively high. I would think it's not more than 1,500 people, and even that number is probably exaggerated. Perhaps the number is that high or higher if you're talking about clandestine brothels.

Strip clubs, strictly speaking, are legal in Buenos Aires. So is prostitution, as long as it doesn't occur in an organized fashion in a whorehouse, said Cevasco. Whorehouses per se are illegal in the city. But women can voluntarily sell themselves at strip clubs, so long as they consummate their sexual acts at another location. Cevasco said that "The of Law of Prophylaxis" bans houses of ill repute or "casas de tolerancia" as they're known in Spanish legalese. The same law also bans prostitution in certain public places, namely in areas within 200 meters of schools, religious institutions or residential homes. In addition, the law bans "obscene sexual displays" that could "surprise" people who don't appreciate such sights.

This law has led to controversy regarding the well-known area of La Rosedal in Palermo. There, between the hours of 9pm and 6am, transvestites openly market their services to prospective clients. Anyone who has been to La Rosedal at night knows it is not a place for the prude or tame-hearted. Transvestites commonly stand naked as they market themselves or, more accurately, their bodies. But while some neighbors complain about these activities, legal authorities defend them, saying it is reasonable to assume that anyone who steps into La Rosedal after dark knows what he's getting into. As a result, visitors can't reasonably claim to be "surprised" by what they see there. "Because of this, it's very hard to imagine that any judge would condemn anybody for this type of act in this place," Cevasco said.

Cevasco said brothels such as those advertised in my neighborhood are illegal. Moreover, he noted that a recent law makes even the mere marketing of prostitution illegal. "The Buenos Aires Legislature just passed a law that imposes heavy fines and up to 90 days in jail for people who facilitate access to these kind of places," he said.

That is true for anyone who tries to market prostitution, he said. But this part of the law leads to an odd contradiction: A hotel clerk or taxi driver who advises a prospective John on where to find prostitutes can be punished for promoting behavior that is itself legal.

SA: Let me see here. You're saying it's illegal for a taxi driver to tell a tourist where he can find prostitutes even though prostitution itself is legal?

LJC: That's right.

SA: Isn't there a paradox here?

LJC: Yes, there is. Constitutionally, one can't prohibit people from using their bodies as they please. What the law tries to do is prevent the mass commercialization of this type of activity. I'm against prohibiting this kind of activity because doing so generally leads to legal and cultural contradictions, and ends up fostering corruption. These kind of places (whorehouses) tend to exist anyway. And when they do, they end up working under the auspices of police corruption. This is indisputable.

SA: Anything else you'd like to say?

LJC: When you have an increase in this kind of activity, it's because there are unresolved social problems behind it. You can't solve social problems with punitive laws. Prostitution rises when poverty rises. To reduce prostitution, you have to focus on improving social and cultural factors and not on penal processes that historically haven't rendered positive results.

Redondo
10-26-07, 23:09
LJC: I don't. But I would say that for a city the size of Buenos Aires, which has around 3 million people, the number is not excessively high. I would think it's not more than 1,500 people, and even that number is probably exaggerated. Perhaps the number is that high or higher if you're talking about clandestine brothels.

I would think it's a lot higher, especially if you count the part-time hookers, who go to 'normal' bars to pick up clients

Andres
10-27-07, 12:30
Below is a copy of a blog page I happened across related to prostitution and the legality of same in BsAs. Included is part of an interview on the topic with assistant DA Jorge Cevasco. I found it a good read.Good article, thanks.

The problem with "organized prostitution" is that it became a serious business during the XX century in Argentina, where girls were virtually submitted into semi-slavery and were sold and bought like cattle. Even today you still find on the news about the police busting places that hosted minors or very young women who lived and worked on the "privados" almost 24/7, not being allowed to go out and making very very little.

Andres

Aqualung
10-29-07, 16:26
Not so many years back we had police edicts here in Buenos Aires. These allowed the cops to jail over night (or fine) drunks and prostitutes for disturbing the peace (creating scandal) and so on.

The uniformed police never really bothered the girls too much but as each police station had to show a certain number of arrests each month to prove that they were doing something, many of the girls would have days that they would turn themselves in so the precincts could fill their monthly statistics.

Usually the girls weren't put in cells but rather, they would cook for the cops and so on. The same with the known vagabonds and drunks. They would also turn themselves in once a month and their job would be to clean the police station.

The ones the girls feared were the plain clothes from the "Moralidad" Division. These would take the girls to the Central Police Department and lock them up and if it wasn't their first time they could be sent to the "Asilo San Miguel" for up to 40 days.

The biggest problem for the girls was if they had kids and no one to look after them while they were locked up the children could be taken from them and given in custody.

This is one of the reason places like the clubs exist. The owners paid the cops so they wouldn't raid them and the girls worked in relative peace.

The police edict referring to scandal (prostitution was never illegal) was the 2ºH so hooker were (and still are) known as Segundo Hache (second H)

The police edicts were abolished in the late 80's or early 90's so I'm not talking about ancient history.

Argento
05-14-08, 20:34
A great article in the daily rag at my local coffee shop, 'Diario Popular'.

It seems that with the price of soya beans, the local prostitutes in Cordoba who service the truck drivers, accept payment in the beans. The paper reported that these reprehensible transactions were robbing the owners of the beans, a fact beyond dispute, and that the pimps were in effect dealing in stolen beans.

My mind being like it is, immediately transposed the other possible alternatives of paying prostitutes with agricultural products. Perhaps grapes. A great option for our 6 figure, potential grape investor. He could get a skin full of Mendoza wine and get laid without having to touch his frugally aquired 6 figure sum. Can't be bad. Just think about it.

Argento

Member #2041
05-14-08, 20:59
A great article in the daily rag at my local coffee shop, 'Diario Popular'.

It seems that with the price of soya beans, the local prostitutes in Cordoba who service the truck drivers, accept payment in the beans. The paper reported that these reprehensible transactions were robbing the owners of the beans, a fact beyond dispute, and that the pimps were in effect dealing in stolen beans.

My mind being like it is, immediately transposed the other possible alternatives of paying prostitutes with agricultural products. Perhaps grapes. A great option for our 6 figure, potential grape investor. He could get a skin full of Mendoza wine and get laid without having to touch his frugally aquired 6 figure sum. Can't be bad. Just think about it.

ArgentoArgento, you really are a complete [Deleted by Admin]. I never thought I would see someone actually attempt to be a bigger [Deleted by Admin] than Exon is on this forum, but you are clearly making a name for yourself in this regard.

Argento
05-14-08, 21:19
Argento, you really are a complete fucking jackass. I never thought I would see someone actually attempt to be a bigger douchebag than Exon is on this forum, but you are clearly making a name for yourself in this regard.Got you again. Exon has your number frugal one.

Argento

Member #2041
05-14-08, 21:31
Got you again. Exon has your number frugal one.

ArgentoSorry, but you [Deleted by Admin] don't have anyone. All you are doing is establishing for all to see what morons you are - which is, admittedly, a trivially simple task. Perhaps you missed it in the other thread when multiple other posters called you and Exon out for being such jerks.

Buena Suerte.

Exon123
05-14-08, 22:10
Actually Member #2041

Argento has a pretty good idea for you there. You could invest your "Princely" some of 6 figures, (either inherited or stolen if you even have it) in a Grape Ranch and trade the juice for pussy.

The girls could open, rather than a Privado, a tasting room for tourist on your Ranch. They could either taste the wine or taste their Pussy's, or perhaps both. You would become famious in no time.

Think about it, You'd have the only Brothel of its kind in the world. Why connoisseur's of fine wines & good pussy, (such as Yourself) would flock to the place from all over the world. You'd be on 60 minutes, Robert Mondovi would come to visit, maybe Ted Turner, the possibilities are endless.

Maybe even branch out and put an outlet in Buenos Aires, everyone would come to that one. Why not an opperation in Nevada to compete wirh the Bunny Ranch, Your both Ranchers by the way.

Give it some thought.

Exon

Member #2041
05-14-08, 22:19
Sure Exon, whatever.


After the fact note: I feel compelled to mention that Jackson actually apologized to me for deleting the expletives in my prior two posts in this thread, because despite the fact that I used offensive language in violation of forum rules, Jackson did acknowledge that the deleted expletives that I used were actually accurate descriptions for Argento and especially Exon123, even though the language I used was inappropriate and impolite - LOL! Fortunately, in quoting me, Argento has managed to memorialize the language that I did use, despite Jackson editing the posts that I actually made.

Argento
05-15-08, 11:18
Sure Exon, whatever.

After the fact note: I feel compelled to mention that Jackson actually apologized to me for deleting the expletives in my prior two posts in this thread, because despite the fact that I used offensive language in violation of forum rules, Jackson did acknowledge that the deleted expletives that I used were actually accurate descriptions for Argento and especially Exon123, even though the language I used was inappropriate and impolite - LOL! Fortunately, in quoting me, Argento has managed to memorialize the language that I did use, despite Jackson editing the posts that I actually made.Jackson is a mysterious and magical man. At much the same time as editing your drivel, not 30 minutes beforehand, we were discussing the much predicted slide in the Peso. Perhaps you could ask him his opinion on the matter as you have such a personal relationship with him.

Which O frugal one brings us back to the causes of your mouth-frothing. Of course the economy here is not sustainable. When will it collapse and how it will effect the Peso, is and was the issue. You said that you bet it will collapse, a reiteration of many other members who have repeatedly posted over the past year that the collapse is imminent. I asked for a time frame and subject to that, I would be interested in your bet. Now you may be a knowledgable person on wine and you may be knowledgable about a host of other stuff, but you have jack shit knowledge of this economy and the way it functions. But your unsubstantiated opinion about this economy ought to have been challenged and when you spat out your pacifier when challenged to substantiate it, you were fair game to take the piss out of.

You will, as is your want, have the last word, but this is my last on this matter.

Argento

Member #2041
05-15-08, 12:59
You will, as is your want, have the last word, but this is my last on this matter.

ArgentoThe simple fact is, I said that I would bet on it, and I will. It just happens that you personally will not be a party to that bet - because I have no need to offer the time frame you desired - since I can and will bet on it, simply by making the investment that I plan on making, only when it becomes opportune to do so. As for whether my opinion on this economy ought to have been challenged - frankly, that's true - the only thing is, in order for such a challenge to have had any value, said challenge would need to have come from someone less dimwitted than you, or someone less inherently obnoxious and self-important as Exon.

I might also add that despite his and your incessant bloviating on the subject about my getting the last word in, in the aforementioned earlier thread, Exon123 actually had the last word, inconsequential and self contradictory as it may have been, and the discussion was over, until you felt the need to dredge it up again. I can only speculate that perhaps you felt that not enough of this forum's membership realized that you were actually at least as much of a jerk as Exon123, and felt compelled to prove it in a resounding manner. And as for your prior post being your last word on this matter, we can only hope so for the good of this forum, as the less you participate in it, the more this venue benefits by your absence.