Plaza Asturias

[El Perro]

Made my third visit to this old style spanish restaurant tonight. Corner of Ave de Mayo and Salta. Directly across the street from Cafe Iberia. I have always enjoyed this place and wish I had gone more often. Ate outside tonight with great weather and also enjoyed the late, relaxed Sunday evening street scene. A large menu with a good deal of seafood. Wait staff are pretty attentive. Pretty much soup to nuts. Moderately priced. This part of Congreso was very much spanish influenced in the day. A number of more traditional spanish restaurants about.

Had the pleasure of seeing a young, 25 or so chica, with her date, in mini skirt, that might have had the best pair of legs I have ever seen. She coulda been a Rockette.

[Jaimito Cartero]

I ate here the other night before heading across the street. 5 peso cubierto, which includes a plate with some sardine like fish, and some olives for an appetizer, along with pre and post dinner shots.

I ordered the 24p Bife de Chorizo. It was cooked well, in spite of being a thick cut. Quality wasn't as good as I expected, but since meat was in short supply, I'll give them some slack.

I also had a bowl of vegetable soup for 6p. Total with drink was 41p. Fairly good service, a pretty crowded place.

[Dickhead]

It was closed last night (Saturday) for no apparent reason.

[WorldTravel69]

I went by there on Friday at 7pm and it was closed also.


It was closed last night (Saturday) for no apparent reason.

[Jaimito Cartero]

I went by there on Friday at 7pm and it was closed also.Is it normally open at 7pm? I find many restaurants don't open until 8pm.

[WorldTravel69]

My Spanish class is near there. I have never seen it closed.

I have eaten there a few times myself, and was planning to go tonight.


Is it normally open at 7pm? I find many restaurants don't open until 8pm.

[Tessan]

My Spanish class is near there. I have never seen it closed.

I have eaten there a few times myself, and was planning to go tonight.It was closed last night, did not check today to see if it's closed. They where closed for 3 days during Easter, because of some repairs they had to make. Guess the repairs did not pass muster, so they had to close again. Was told by the guy at the small stand that outside of the restaurant, that the city has them closed, until they can fix some sort of violation.

Plaza España, one block away, has the same food. Same owner. 20% cheaper. Not as nice inside as Plaza Asturias. Problem is, when Plaza Asturias is closed, Plaza España, is too full.

[Dickhead]

Normally if they are closed for violations they have the red "clausurado" tape on the door. Plaza España is not as good in my experience.

[Tessan]

Normally if they are closed for violations they have the red "clausurado" tape on the door. Plaza España is not as good in my experience.I was told that its something they have to fix, for the municipality, there is not red tape, or any explanation on the door.

[Tessan]

Just took a look, it's 1 block from my apt. It's still closed.

[Tessan]

I was having dinner at l'Alliance last Monday, and WorldTravel69 ask me if Plaza Asturias was open. If anyone else was thinking of going there, but was not sure. It's been open since last week Thursday.

[InArgentina]

I am 43 year old Australian and have been in Buenos Aires for 12 weeks.

Went to Asturias for lunch (salta why ave de mayo - last time I was here the bill was 152 peso for 4 guys)

Went alone.

No spanish.

Ordered fish meal with potatoes - 27 pesos. No salad.

Ordered water.

Water asks if I want a wine - I say copa vino tinto'

Waiter says no copa and indicates small bottle.

I say ok.

Fish meal is average for Buenos Aires.

Get the bill.

88 Pesos.

? The wine cost 50 pesos! Small bottle. The waiter did not say she was going to order the most expensive wine on the menu.

Waiter's name is Maria.

This is a problem as I do not have 88 pesos.

Manager asks if I have passport or visa card - I say no.

Eventually I pay 57 pesos and they confiscate my Lonely Planet Guide to Brazil in english - which I was about to throw out anyway.

I was foolish I trusted the waiter (she seemed sweet) to order a reasonably priced wine.

ALWAYS CHECK THE PRICE OF WHAT YOU ORDER WHEREVER

[Dickhead]

This was 100% your own fault. First of all, if you have been here for 12 weeks, why do you have no Spanish? That is absolutely lame. Second of all, the place has a wine list, with prices, and you don't have to know any Spanish to read numbers. Third of all, you agreed to purchase something you did not have the money to pay for, so I would say you ripped them off. Fourth of all Lonely Planet sucks. Fifth of all, why would you not be prepared for some eventuality by at least carrying an ATM card, a credit card, 100 pesos in your sock, or something?

Your math seems to indicate that you thought water, wine, and gratuity would be 30 pesos since your meal was 27 and you only had 57. Well, maybe so but that is pretty borderline. Also it is normal for there to be a cubierto of a few pesos and you should have checked on that as well. Wine by the glass is most certainly available at this place so I believe you misunderstood the waitress and that is your fault also.

I have eaten at this place at least twenty times, and I have never had any problem. The place is completely honest. They give you free sherry before your meal, plus an appetizer of (typically) olives and sardines (or some other kind of little fishy) They also give you a choice of limoncello or two other aperitifs after your meal, also free. Sure, it is cheap sherry but that is beside the point.

You screwed this up from top to bottom.

[Thomaso276]

I hope you returned and paid your bill.

What would have done in your home country?

What would the restaurant have done?

[Stormy]

No wonder the chicas want to be paid in advance.

[InArgentina]

Senor Dickhead -frankly I doubt anywhere is 100% honest in Buenos Aires - perhaps you have spent too much time here to no what honesty is.

You have to weigh the dishonesty up against the benefits of the country (eg low cost of living - no prizes for guessing why, good looking girls etc)

I would not be boasting that I have been to this place 20 times.

I have been in Argentina long enough to order basic stuff and read a menu. When I say no Spanish I mean minimal Spanish.

I have ordered a glass of red wine almost everyday I have been in Argentina and it has never been a problem.

If you order a glass of wine - it would normally mean house wine not from the most expensive type. In Australia or Argentina.

If I had been Argentine, then the waiter would never had tried this on.

It has hard for someone not in Argentina to get a real understanding of this conversation - put it this way the night before had a generous glass of wine filled to the brim for 4.5 pesos at a restaurant.

Also I asked to keep the bill but the waiter & manager refused to let me keep the bill. This would not be normal anywhere I would suggest.

If this happened in Australia (very unlikely, frankly it is unimaginable) then I would have told the owner to get and walked out. There is still a level of trust and commonsense obviously not present in your part of America. You don't try and exploit foreigners. We don't need to.

In Australia you are not even expected to tip.

This is not an isolated incident. Last night I had a meal at a restaurant 'that everybody who has been to the BA and reads AP knows about'. The bill comes back with an error of 5 pesos'. The 'error' is also on an American's bill (separate from mine) I am sharing a meal with. We both ask for it to be corrected.

My bill comes back with another error in their favour! It is always in their favour.

Reason for the original error on my bill -as openly stated by the waiter - I was told that the American had under paid them the previous night and they were getting him back.

So they pad my bill! The attitude is Why not try it on? Its a foreigner. If it comes back what's the difference.

[MCSE]

If you order a glass of wine - it would normally mean house wine not from the most expensive type. In Australia or Argentina.I disagree: there are many places where you can buy a glass of chandon, or, a glass of pinot, the reason for ordering a glass of wine not necessarily means you are cheap, but may be you want to match your food with a specific wine, and not everyone in the table are ordering the same food, among other reasons.


Also I asked to keep the bill but the waiter & manager refused to let me keep the bill. This would not be normal anywhere I would suggest.The bill was not paid, and that's why the kept it, giving you the bill means they recognize you paid for it. However when you get back to recover your lonelyplanet guide and you pay your debt they should give you the ticket, if they don't now you have reasons to start a compalint with the AFIP (taxes authority)

The bill includes the 21% VAT (Value Added Tax) They have the right to don't pay taxes for an aborted operation.


In Australia you are not even expected to tip. Well, in Australia you Drive on the left side of the road the opposite side than in Argentina, Italy or USA, if you were driving by you right you would crash your car, each country it's different each other.

Plaza Asturias gets sometimes crowded, with many regular clients and it's an ok place to go, as many others, but certanly it's not a ripoff place, the 30 pesos you owe them will certanly not make any difference for them.

[InArgentina]

MCSE. Thank you for your contribution. I don't agree with your views but unlike Dickhead's they would seem to be constructive.

Let me say to any reader that Asturias is ok and I do not believe it is a 'rip off joint'. Just check the menu and especially the prices of the wine.

1. Now just let me have the final word with a small story.

For some time I have been going to a restaurant in Ave Callao / Recolete.

A couple of weeks ago the waiter who sort of speaks English presented me with the bill of 42 pesos.

He said.

'Sir - do you realize that bill is very expensive for an Argentine? Most Argentine's would not be able to afford the bill'. And of course he is correct.

Now let us consider 50 pesos for a small bottle of wine (I emphasize small bottle of wine) in a wine producing country like Argentina (where wine is plentiful and cheap) at an average restaurant.

50 pesos roughly equals 15.79 US$.

If we consider the GDP per capita of the two countries.

Roughly USA $45,000Argentina $6,000

To an Argentine the 50 peso bill would be to an American something like receiving a US $112 bill for a small bottle of wine.

Now I happed to consider the Argentine peso is undervalued (just my view)

So probably a fair comparative figure would be range from something like USD $75 to $112.

How likely is this that at an average restaurant in the USA? In Australia very unlikely.

When I made the order the waiter knew I had not checked the price – I just wanted a glass of the house wine. Note MCSE I didn't specify a particular wine. If just walk in and say a glass of vino in argentina in will normally be the house wine. Yes I could have a special wine but in that case I would then make a specific request.

If she tries to exploit my ignorance (of the menu or the Argentine market or lack of fluency in Spanish) then she has crossed the line and must accept the consequences.

If anything I overpaid the restaurant (I thought this would have been the common response from readers)

2. A few days ago I went to the restaurant in Ave Callao / Recolete and ordered three carne empanadas. The price was 3.5 pesos. I liked them so much that I ordered 3 more.

Carne empanadas. Finally I get the bill:

Not 6 carne empanadas but 2 carne Empanadas and 4 Lomo Empanadas.

Lomo empanadas cost. 4.0 pesos.



I query the bill and frankly the response was something like 'yes we ripped you off but only little bit'. No apology - not even a denial.

I do not consider this ethical behavior. Based on this behavior I would not inform the restaurant if they undercharged me in the future.

Many years ago I was on holiday in the beautiful Italian city of Sienna (I do not speak Italian) I went to get a haircut in a very average looking barbershop (filled with elderly Italians) I did not ask the price but assumed it would be reasonable. When I got the bill it was astronomical (I can't remember the exact price) I refused it and in the end I paid a reduced price.

I have done this many times (yes Stormy even with girls) but this Italian experience happened when I was young and I will never forget it.

My point?

The bill whether written or not is always negotiable. People should charge fair value otherwise it is open season on them. Business is not about keeping to the law it is about giving people value.

My ethics are very simple. They can summarized as Tit 4 Tat.

If the buyer must beware, then so should the seller.

Yes it would seem that Australians and Americans do travel in different directions.

I come to Argentina for fair value.

What are you here for?

[MCSE]

MCSE. Thank you for your contribution. I don't agree with your views but unlike Dickhead's they would seem to be constructive. Your welcome, yes, my reply was constructive and I have disagreed in a few points with DickHead in other reports, but I must recognize on this one he was flawless.


50 pesos roughly equals 15.79 US$.

If we consider the GDP per capita of the two countries.

Roughly USA $45,000Argentina $6,000That's not valid as an argument for not paying a bill, as DickHead also posted, you've had the right and the possibility to read the menu before ordering, so that's not a justification.

In addition, I also disagree that 50 pesos it's a lot for an argentinean, there are both poor argentines and rich argentines.


Many years ago I was on holiday in the beautiful Italian city of Sienna (I do not speak Italian) I went to get a haircut in a very average looking.

Barbershop (filled with elderly Italians) I did not ask the price but assumed it would be reasonable. When I got the bill it was astronomical (I can't remember the exact price) I refused it and in the end I paid a reduced price.All right, so now I see this is a pattern. One day the owners will call the police, beware, but I think that's what you are looking for in the deep. I think that if you try something similar in Manhattan, they will call the police and you'll stay in jail for a while and the show will cost you more than the unpaid bill. Bad for you.


I come to Argentina for fair value.

What are you here for? Being proud to be cheap it's like being proud for being gay.

And let me add that I used to be cheap when I was younger, but, in fact was in BA where I discovered that being cheap was a waste of enery and a waste of time.

[Dickhead]

"if we consider the GDP per capita of the two countries.

Roughly USA $45,000 Argentina $6,000"

This is wildly inaccurate but I do find myself agreeing with MCSE, which is odd. But while MCSE and I do not get along in cyberspace, you appear to be an example of someone who enters a forum, posts nothing of any interest, and flames everyone. It is pretty common knowledge that Australia is country where one does not tip, and I for one wish the whole world were like that, but it is not.

Hey MCSE, why do you have such a problem with gays? Think about it in terms of prostitution. If you think prostitution is wrong, don't have sex with prostitutes. If you think gay sex is wrong, don't have sex with other men. If you think it is wrong to smoke marijuana, don't smoke it. If you don't like avocados then don't make guacamole.

Normally I like Australians but you are a total shit. For example, what is the name of this restaurant in 'Callao and Recollete'? That location does not exist but if you went there a bunch of times and never tipped I doubt you would be very popular.

[MCSE]

Hey MCSE, why do you have such a problem with gays? Think about it in terms of prostitution. If you think prostitution is wrong, don't have sex with prostitutes. If you think gay sex is wrong, don't have sex with other men. If you think it is wrong to smoke marijuana, don't smoke it. If you don't like avocados then don't make guacamole.I cited the particular case of the gays, because it's the first thing comes to mind for "pride" or "proud" since they do their "pride parades" everywhere in the world, including plaza de mayo, but it's known by everyone this started in California. However, in this world there are two kind of people: winners and losers, gays are losers, and it's not about I don't rent apartments to gays, I don't rent apartments to losers. Or at least, that's the concept since some times they book anyways and I feel a little lack of courtesy asking in advance: are you a loser?

Cheap people are losers as well, a couple of degrees behind gays, but losers as well, it's not a concept of how much you carry on your wallet, one can be poor, but not cheap, being cheap it's a lifestyle. It's not about biz, because you can buy cheap and that's just business. However, does not apply for personal stuff, and personal life enjoyment.

Why do I believe that being cheap it's being loser? Because: I have two friends, my small friend and my big friend. When I'm cheap I'm all time attending my small friend and I forget about my big friend. My small friend is my pocket and my big friend is my cock.

[Daddy Rulz]

Is the fact that it keeps me on my toes. Around every corner is some Portenyo out to get as much of my money as they can. It's not worse than the oil companies here in the states it's just more personal.

Please allow a story:

Back in the days of antiquity when I still worked for an airline, I traveled to far Argentina. My seat mate on my journey was a young man that also worked for the same airline. He was an innocent boy on his first trip down south, the stains of Brigham Young University still unwashed from his mien. As far as seat mates go he was pretty good, interesting conversation and skinny enough to not intrude into my personal space. He had broken away from the faith associated with the afore mentioned university so I sensed the opportunity to introduce somebody into the world our debauchery. We exchanged email addresses to get in touch with one and other once we had established ourselves.

Our own fair Anna Luna was meeting me at the airport and I offered the lad a ride. He declined stating that because he had been invited to participate in an adventure race his airport transfer was being provided. I on the other hand was being picked up by our own fair Anna Luna, pre boob job sadly but a joy none the less. After clearing customs I saw my fair maid and also got a look at the shifty eyed scoundrel my friend would be riding with. I again offered him a ride with me and again he declined. The last thing I told him before we parted company was to ask how much his ride would cost BEFORE getting in the car. I had impressed upon this fair haired lad the general importance of this on our trip down. I explained that while BsAs was a beautiful city and it's inhabitants while oft time truly wonderful people and at least 50% of them delicious to fuck they could be at times a bit slippery when doing business with Los Norte Americanos. I had explained several times that if prices are not agreed upon before service was provided or products consumed that the resulting surprises where never pleasant. With these wise words yet ringing in his ear my new friend jumped in his remis without a word to his driver and off he went.

I myself enjoyed a pleasant trip into town with the preboob job Anna, being whisked to my hotel safely and in a most expeditious manner. Later that same evening I made arraingments to have dinner with my new friend. It was my plan to have a nice repast then walk to Cafe Excedra where I would introduce him to if not the cream of the Buenos Aires mongering community at least the degenerates I call my friends and closest companions while I am there, brother Dickhead being among them. Over dinner I inquired, with a knowing eye of course, as to his ride into town. At this point my friend had a fit akin to a new convert at a tent show revival. Seems the miscreant driving his remis had charged him, wait for it, 75 fucking dollars for the honor of sitting in his broken down Renoult. I had paid of course Anna's standard fee of 45 pesos to be dropped off at a hotel 45 blocks from his.

There is a silver lining to this dark cloud of a story though. Having experienced what passes for "let the buyer beware" in Argentina I'm proud to say that over 3 days, while fucking a truly amazing amount of trim even by brother Dickheads standards my friend never once asked "how much" rather he informed his delightful companions what he would be giving them, and he never ever once paid in advance. Except at apartments where there is no post coital payment option.

The moral of this long winded story? Ask how much something costs if you can't give it back when they charge you. It's not that Argentines have questionable ethics but rather they have ethics that are appropriate for their country and it is their fucking country. It's how it works and if after reading this you're still stupid enough to do the same thing then you are no longer a victim but rather a willing participant, or perhaps a wanky dag with a chip on your shoulder.

Submitted for your approval.

DR

[Miami Bob]

This may be the best foos that I've had in Argentina. I ate dishes that I have never had before. Each dish was better than the last, The prices are very reasonable.

I can usually handle a restaurant menue without any problems. This menue had so many things that I had never heard of before that I must have spent 30 minutes with the waitress getting explanations before I orderred with my argentine friend's help.

Some one at the table must speak fair spanish or you will be restricted to the most comon dishes that you know from past experience---which is still great!

[InArgentina]

http://www.economist.com/Countries/USA/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-FactSheet

Shows United States GDP per head (US$; market exchange rate) 45,963

http://www.economist.com/Countries/Argentina/profile.cfm?folder=Profile-FactSheet

Shows Argentine GDP per head (US$; market exchange rate) 6,665

[Norman Stormin]

Menu Executivo 180.

Add more choices with desert 240.

Still great spanish food and professional servive.

I have eaten here hundreds of times.