The Simpsons upset Argentina

[Flexible Horn]

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/americas/story/501617.html

[Caveman01]

Oh, well, it's really funny. The Simpsons I mean.

The article of the Miami Herald is so full of wrong facts that would be a hard nuisance to comment. Just to mention that the Military Government DIDN'T CAME JUST after Peron. Peron died on July '74, and the militars came on March '76. The dirty war was installed then (so, it wasn't Peron the responsible of the 30.000 missing persons as the article says) and it was only then that the dissapeared began to dissapear.

[Rockin Bob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4OTayq0adg

There's the clip in question. Right, it wasn't Peron that was responsible for the desparecidos, that came later.

Note that according to the Miami Herald article the Simpsons managed to offend the Brazilians big time as well. "Equal opportunity offenders."

In my opinion, if satire doesn't offend somebody it isn't doing its job. On the other hand, exaggeration is one thing, but implying that Peron was responsible for the dirty war, I don't thinks that's right.

But hey, Karl Rove, you want to pay me to write Republican attack ads, I can lose the ethical scruples!

Is everyone here as sick of those stupid politicians as I am?

[Caveman01]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4OTayq0adg

There's the clip in question. Right, it wasn't Peron that was responsible for the desparecidos, that came later. Thank you Rockin Bob.

[MCSE]

All I can say it's that BART'S an everyone's idol.

[El Queso]

The article of the Miami Herald is so full of wrong facts that would be a hard nuisance to comment. Just to mention that the Military Government DIDN'T CAME JUST after Peron. Peron died on July '74, and the militars came on March '76. The dirty war was installed then (so, it wasn't Peron the responsible of the 30.000 missing persons as the article says) and it was only then that the dissapeared began to dissapear.Actually, the quote in the article was:

"Most Argentines don't consider Perón a dictator, and they certainly don't blame him for the fact that up to 30,000 dissidents went missing during the country's ''dirty war.'' Those disappearances are attributed to a military dictatorship that ruled from 1976 to 1983, after Perón's death."

The article really seems to be saying the opposite of what you seemed to think it said up to this point. In fact, it seems to be explaining why Argentinos might be upset with the comments on the Simpsons in a rather sympathetic light, I thought.

It then says:

"''This type of program causes great harm, because the disappearances are still an open wound here,'' former congressman Lorenzo Pepe, who now heads the Juan Domingo Perón Institute, said of the episode. 'This is highly offensive to Argentines.''

Maybe you read this and took the first part wrong (somehow?) and thought the sum of it was giving inaccurate ifnormation that seemed to be tying the 30,000 disappearances to Peron? But really, this quote from a former Argentino congressman is just saying (to me) that to even speak of the disappearances, even worse to speak of them wrongly (which the Simpsons obviously did), is really bad. Which seems to me to be accurate.

The article says later:

"On Monday, as thousands here consulted YouTube to view the clip of the ''Simpsons'' episode, Isabel Perón -- Juan Perón's third wife -- appeared in a Spanish court to fight a request for her extradition to face charges of human rights abuses. She was Perón's vice president and took over as president when her husband died in 1974.

Prosecutors say that a government anti-communist squad during her presidency was responsible for 1,500 deaths or disappearances. Some believe that group -- called the Triple A, short for Argentine Anticommunist Alliance -- is responsible for initiating the violence that would mushroom under the military government that seized power from Isabel Perón in a 1976 coup."

This section of the article even says what you said about the time between Juan Peron's death and the ousting of his third wife from power. However, it does tie her to some nefarious activities, although indirectly, and according to many other news source on the web, quite accurately as far as it was Buenos Aires asking for extradition from Spain, not something that a US newspaper cooked up through bad reporting.

The article didn't tie the disappearances directly to Juan Peron, although it did say:

"Joseph Page, the author of a biography of Juan Perón, said that he believes it is unfair to label Perón a dictator, much less the architect of the disappearances."

Which again, is talking about the statement of the Simpsons and how wrong it was.

The ONLY thing I could see that might have made you think the article was tying Peron to any wrong-doing and dictator-ship is this quote:

"The current Argentine controversy touches upon the far more delicate issue of state-sponsored murder, however, and it comes at a time when some here are revisiting Perón's place in its painful past."

Which doesn't say in any way, shape or form that Peron WAS a dictator at all. It is taking the two subjects in discussion - state-sponsored murder (as brought up by the Simpsons dialog) and Peron's place in Argentina's past, in which it repeatedly said before in the article that it is unjust to attribute the 30,000 disappearances and the "dirty war" to Juan Peron.

I'm not sure why you thought the article was "so full of wrong facts that would be a hard nuisance to comment."

[Caveman01]

I'm not sure why you thought the article was "so full of wrong facts that would be a hard nuisance to comment."Oh El Queso, please don't make me punctuated them one by one.

It would be a little difficult, if not to say inappropiate to discuss Juan Peron under The Simpsons light.

The true that Peron was not responsible of the 30.000 deaths during the militar process doesn't deny the fact, as most argentines will let you know, that he really was a dictator. The fact that he was democraticaly elected twice between 1945 - '55, and during his presidency favoured the working class, doesn't hide the true that during all these years he behaved like a dictator: opposite newspapers and radios were closed, the communist party was persecuted, anyone who dares to speak in public against him took the risk of being incarcelated, etc, etc. The article says "most Argentines don't consider Peron a dictator". Well, they consider him. A dictator can favour the left, can favour the right, can favour the working class, but he's always a dictator.

I must admit that's right (the article of the Miami Herald) when he said that "the disappearences are still an open wound here". Yes, they are. So that's why I refuse to comment them here relating them to a funny article about the Simpsons.

In another part the article says that "the group (...) called the Triple A (...) is responsible for initiating the violence that would mushroom under the military government". That's wrong again. The Triple A began operating on 1974, but "the violence that would mushroom under the military government" began much earlier, in 1970 when ex president and dictator Pedro Eugenio Aramburu (another one, you see, our history is so full of dictators that's the only thing we know for sure: to recognize a dictator when we see one) was kidnapped by proto revolutionary group Los Montoneros. In fact, this was the violent answer to Aramburu's shooting of 38 peronists (militaries and civils) during the Libertadora Revolution that took down Peron in 1955. Aramburu was carried to a small farm away from Buenos Aires, executed there and published as the first act of "revolutionary justice". So, then on, the true violence began. Armed groups like E.R.P., F.A.R. and others began operating in all the republic. And the Triple A, from the right side, was only another chapter in that blood stained story.

Should I carry on?

Please, tell me is not necessary.

As I said at the beginning, we can continue this discussion if you like, but not relating it to the facts as exposed in the Miami Herald article, most of all under The Simpson's trivial and funny light.

[El Queso]

Caveman.

I think I misunderstood what you were saying in your original post.

You said "Just to mention that the Military Government DIDN'T CAME JUST after Peron. Peron died on July '74, and the militars came on March '76. The dirty war was installed then (so, it wasn't Peron the responsible of the 30.000 missing persons as the article says) and it was only then that the dissapeared began to dissapear."

It appeared to me that you were saying that "the article said Peron was responsible for the disappeared, but it couldn't possibly have been because the disappeared began to disappear after Peron was dead."

I think the problem here is that your first post just didn't make sense and I should have ignored it.

[Caveman01]

If I were you, El Queso, I'd try to ignore the whole article of the Miami Herald.

But cheer up, at least they don't affirmed we have nuclear weapons here in Barrio Norte (!!).

[Daddy Rulz]

Jeez Louise it's us Norte Americanos that should be offended, the show had to be poking fun at the VAST number of drunken idiots here in good ol sex prison that think Madonna REALLY was Evita and was in fact married to Peron. The line about Peron was the set up for the joke about Madonna. Sheesh it's the fucking Simpsons. I bet the kids will be laughing. Anyway Crusty doesn't sound right in Argentina so who cares uuhhhhh.