American Politics during the Obama Presidency [Archive] - Page 20

Member #4112

10-20-13, 11:01

This is from a friend of mine who's a die hard Democrat and Obama supporter. He was writing to a couple of Democrat buddies and forwarded to me as an afterthought. He has cancer and is getting treated in California even though he lives in Nevada.

It looks like the Republicans were right.
My guaranteed issue health insurance is being cancelled as Welpoint can do that if they withdraw from the personal insurance market in the state. My choices are limited to one of the Obamacare plans that are basically all HMO-type plans with limited hospitals/cancer centers/heart centers. You don't have a choice of where to be treated if you get sick , at any price point.

You can only go to the approved places, which in Nevada....suck

My insurance is being canceled too as a result of the Affordable Care Act, as the insurance company is abandoning my state.Oh great, mighty and all knowing Esten, please explain how this could be happening under the Great Obamanations healthcare plan.

While your at it you can also explain why anyone even able to get through the website can't enroll and purchase insurance. What about the sticker shock as folks see their renewal rates as they are now forced to purchase plans with coverage mandated by ObamaCare but they don't want.

I say let it take affect in all it's glory and by November 2014 no one will remember the Slimdown, all they will see is the huge hole ObamaCare has burned in their pocket for care they don't want from hospitals and physicians they were forced to select.

WorldTravel69

10-20-13, 13:39

Ask the Cartoonist what he meant by it?

Tom Toles, of the Washington Post.

Really? Because I interpret the cartoon completely differently.

In your cartoon, the battered Republican elephant is about to be saved by ObamaCare.

Here's how that will actually happen: When the American people realize that their health insurance premiums are skyrocketing, that they can't keep their doctors because their existing policies are being eliminated, that millions of jobs are being restructured to part-time positions to avoid the employer mandate, that the individual mandate forces millions of healthy younger Americans to pay for policies that are double and triple what they should be paying for their risk group, then the ensuing anti-ObamaCare backlash will in fact rescue the Republican party.

Thanks,

Jax.===========================================================

EDITOR's NOTE: Greetings everyone,

Effective immediately, WT69 is limited to posting his own original thoughts, and is thus restrained from posting commentary, cartoons or links to articles authored by other individuals.

Clearly, if you can't even explain your own plagiarized text or cartoons, then you're out of your depth and wasting all of our time in the process.

I was forced to invoke this rule before with WT69, but I let the enforcement slide, and thus we're back to dealing with the same pointless, repetitive stupidity.

I realize that this will effectively prevent WT69 from posting in the political threads because he has never written or expressed an original thought as his entire political philosophy amounts to regurgitating the swill fed to him by the Democratic Party, his own union brainwashers, and Rachael Maddow.

At least Esten, Black Shirt, Rock Harders and other Obama syncophants write their own material.

Thanks,

Jackson

PS: Please note how I composed my comments without resorting to traditional liberal name-calling.

Esten

10-20-13, 14:29

Jackson

10-20-13, 17:05

http://truecostblog.com/2009/08/09/countries-with-universal-healthcare-by-date/

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/06/heres-a-map-of-the-countries-that-provide-universal-health-care-americas-still-not-on-it/259153/Who gives a fuck what other countries are doing?

Do you believe that they've got some magic formula for success that has eluded the American people?

Oh, right. I forgot. Liberals do not believe that America is a great country.

Thanks,

Jax.

WorldTravel69

10-20-13, 17:26

Because they care more about their peoples Health than your Conservatives buddies.

All your views are learned from they same place as I get mine. I read, I watch, I listen.

It seems that most Americans can weed out the shit from the bad ones, but not the Republication Party and the Tea Party.

That's why Obama was elected. The people need help, not their quality of life taking away.

Who gives a fuck what other countries are doing?

Do you believe that they've got some magic formula for success that has eluded the American people?

Oh, right. I forgot. Liberals do not believe that America is a great country.

Thanks,

Jax.

Member #4112

10-21-13, 00:45

We have now moved into prime time for the Affordable Care Act detractors to take their best shots. Roll-out glitches, and sticker shock or plan cancellations for some. After a few months when the dust settles, we'll see where things stand.

It shouldn't be too surprising that a major change to the US healthcare system would involve some degree of disruption and unwanted side effects. The detractors will continue their narrow focus on these things. But the big picture is different. Most people will be able to keep their insurance, and will not see a big premium increase. That's because most people are in the group insurance market not the individual market where the most significant changes are happening. The best the detractors can hope for is a revolt in the individual market. But countering that are all those who will now be able to buy affordable insurance in the individual market, compared to where they were before. Along with the Chezz-like anecdotes are 476,000 people who filed applications in the first 2 weeks.

Here's a good link. It cites an assessment that the average ACA premium increase in the group market is around 2%. Just what I told Doppel.

Sen. Ted Cruz says premiums have gone 'up and up and up' for 'virtually every person'.
PolitiFact Rated: FALSE
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/oct/17/ted-cruz/sen-ted-cruz-says-premiums-have-gone-virtually-eve/

Obama is guilty of glossing over the undesired effects, though he did modify his "you'll be able to keep your insurance" line to state that nothing in the ACA forced this. Obviously, Obama can't control the decisions of individual insurance companies in where they decide to compete. OTOH, we have a lot of misinformation and fear-mongering from the right (no surprise). The truth is somewhere in the middle. Though IMO much closer to Obama's side.Ok Esten, I'm seeing a lot of "happy talk" about ObamaCare but no facts to back them up.

Remember all those folks who testified before Congress about how the sites were ready to go after being paid hundreds of millions of dollars? Did not happen!

Please don't roll out the sites crashed because of overwhelming demand, as there is no reason for this to have happened as they knew or should have known what the demand would be since they are the only store in town. There were plenty of examples out there of under planning resources and how to avoid it, so you have no excuses.

If that was the excuse then why isn't the site working now after experiencing an 88% decrease in traffic, it's not overwhelmed it just doesn't work.

Also why isn't Obama coming out the figures for those who got insurance via the site after three weeks? What's because it simply does not work and Sebelius has time to go on TV to pump the plan but no time for Congress?

The Obama Lie I love the best is how the cost of care is going DOWN $2500 a year. Maybe he just mis-spoke and really meant to say it was going UP.

How can you say with a straight face that NOTHING IN ACA FORCED THIS? Every action being taken by companies is in reaction to ACA and it's draconian take over of the health insurance market.

The undeniable facts are people don't like ObamaCare because the whole thing is a sham. Nothing Obama said is true, but that's nothing new. Companies dropping coverage, reducing work hours, price increases are the REAL affects not some left wing-nut outfit saying it's only going to INCREASE 2%.

Keep whistling past the grave yard Esten, Black Shirt, WT69.

Rev BS

10-21-13, 01:43

Keep whistling past the grave yard Esten, Black Shirt, WT69.I enjoy whistling, it keeps me lighthearted, carefree and optimistic about life.

ObamaCare, you did not want it, you hate it. So you are looking for every shred of evidence that it is a disaster. Nothing will make you more happy than the collapse of ObamaCare. You will jump for joy when it happens.

On the other hand, I am unaffected, nothing has change on my coverage. Yes, there is a great deal of misinformation, and there will be glitches. It is to be expected. Sometimes, when you go out in the morning, and your car won't start, what do you do? Go into a rage? Or you fix it or find alternative transportation?

If it is a total disaster when Obama leaves office, I will donate a 2 hr body massage with all the trimmings, and the masseuse of your choice, and a great Thai dinner. But you have to claim it in Bangkok. Airfare / hotel not included.

Esten

10-21-13, 02:23

Ok Esten, I'm seeing a lot of "happy talk" about ObamaCare but no facts to back them up.

Remember all those folks who testified before Congress about how the sites were ready to go after being paid hundreds of millions of dollars? Did not happen!

Please don't roll out the sites crashed because of overwhelming demand, as there is no reason for this to have happened as they knew or should have known what the demand would be since they are the only store in town. There were plenty of examples out there of under planning resources and how to avoid it, so you have no excuses.

If that was the excuse then why isn't the site working now after experiencing an 88% decrease in traffic, it's not overwhelmed it just doesn't work.

Also why isn't Obama coming out the figures for those who got insurance via the site after three weeks? What's because it simply does not work and Sebelius has time to go on TV to pump the plan but no time for Congress?

The Obama Lie I love the best is how the cost of care is going DOWN $2500 a year. Maybe he just mis-spoke and really meant to say it was going UP.

How can you say with a straight face that NOTHING IN ACA FORCED THIS? Every action being taken by companies is in reaction to ACA and it's draconian take over of the health insurance market.

The undeniable facts are people don't like ObamaCare because the whole thing is a sham. Nothing Obama said is true, but that's nothing new. Companies dropping coverage, reducing work hours, price increases are the REAL affects not some left wing-nut outfit saying it's only going to INCREASE 2%.

Keep whistling past the grave yard Esten, Black Shirt, WT69.Keep howling at the moon, Doppel.

Member #4112

10-21-13, 12:12

Still only seeing "happy talk" with no responses to all which has occurred due to ObamaCare coming on line. Everyday there is a new problem and every day a new excuse by the Obama apologist.

Please answer the questions.

Selebius' appearance but not before Congress?

Part time status, decreased or terminated benefits, increases in premiums?

If the system crashed because it was "over whelmed" when it opened why isn't it working now that traffic has decreased by 88%?

Where are Obama's promised numbers on those who signed up and got coverage?

Enough of the "happy talk" how about some real answers.

Black Shirt your analogy about the car just does not work. I chose the car the car I drive. The government did not force me to by a clunker form outer Mongolia, which is a pretty good analogy for what this administration is forcing the public to buy.

To paraphrase Henry Ford. You can have any insurance you want so long as it's ObamaCare.

I say let it roll out unimpeded and as it crashes like the Wreck of Hesperus the Democrats will have no one to blame but themselves.

Jackson

10-21-13, 12:35

That's why Obama was elected. The people need help, not their quality of life taking away.Obama got elected because he promised the most people the most free money, period.

The auto bailouts, the borrowed stimulus money to pay local government salaries, the 99 weekers, Solyndra, the Dream Act, free cellphones, suspending the welfare work requirement, rubber stamping SS disability claims, hyper-promoting food stamps, and now free health insurance with no income verification.

And that's just what I can recall off the top of my head.

Thanks,

Jax.

Rock Harders

10-21-13, 15:18

Obama got elected because he promised the most people the most free money, period.

Thanks,

Jax.Wrong. Obama got re-elected because the Republicans were too stupid to realize that demographics and attitudes in the US have changed and that national elections are no longer decided by redneck white men who watch Fox News and listen to Rush Limbaugh. Until the Republicans realize that the political sentiments of Asians, Hispanics, Gays, and people with college degrees matter they will continue to lose national elections.

Rev BS

10-21-13, 16:10

I say let it roll out unimpeded and as it crashes like the Wreck of Hesperus the Democrats will have no one to blame but themselves.Wish you and the "gang that can't shoot straight" would do that. Instead of threatening civil war, and making fools of yourselves.

Jackson

10-21-13, 16:38

Wrong. Obama got re-elected because the Republicans were too stupid to realize that demographics and attitudes in the US have changed and that national elections are no longer decided by redneck white men who watch Fox News and listen to Rush Limbaugh. Until the Republicans realize that the political sentiments of Asians, Hispanics, Gays, and people with college degrees matter they will continue to lose national elections.It's certainly true that Obama got re-elected because the "demographics and attitudes in the US have changed" and that change was that 51% of the electorate has decided that living off the endeavors of the 49% who work is a much better lifestyle option that the decidedly worse option of actually working for a living themselves, this moral decline being directly attrituable to the vote-pandering, "free money for all who claim to be victims" liberal Democrats.

The bottom line: Republicans can't and won't "out-give" the Democrats, and now that under the Obama administration the parasites vs producers ratio has passed the 50% point, it would appear that the USA will never recover from it's current economic malise.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."

Ben Franklin

Thanks,

Jackson

Tiny12

10-21-13, 18:01

Wish you and the "gang that can't shoot straight" would do that. Instead of threatening civil war, and making fools of yourselves.Black Shirt, Doppelganger has repeatedly said Republicans in Congress should let the Affordable Care Act roll out. How is he making a fool of himself?

About your offer for a free massage in Bangkok with the masseuse of my choice if the ACA crashes, does that include Khun Noi, formerly at Tulip, who told me she'd come out of retirement for 40,000 baht? (jk)

Rev BS

10-21-13, 20:55

Black Shirt, Doppelganger has repeatedly said Republicans in Congress should let the Affordable Care Act roll out. How is he making a fool of himself?

About your offer for a free massage in Bangkok with the masseuse of my choice if the ACA crashes, does that include Khun Noi, formerly at Tulip, who told me she'd come out of retirement for 40,000 baht? (jk)I would do it to release you out of your depressed state. But I will have to cancel my London trip to see my beloved Arsenal to release the funds for your pleasure. You see, I believe in the Greater Good.

For Doppey, it would be the venue of my choice. However, be assure that this will be my own favorite place. Insofar as ACA, he has only taken this stance just a few days ago. Prior to that, he was a very vocal member of the "gang that can't shoot straight" pushing for rejecting, repealing, then defunding ACA. Now with no more options, he has surrender to the last call, the crash that he is crying for. A praying mantis, he has become, saffron robe, shaved head, bare feet & all.

Esten

10-21-13, 23:45

It's certainly true that Obama got re-elected because the "demographics and attitudes in the US have changed" and that change was that 51% of the electorate has decided that living off the endeavors of the 49% who work is a much better lifestyle option that the decidedly worse option of actually working for a living themselves, this moral decline being directly attrituable to the vote-pandering, "free money for all who claim to be victims" liberal Democrats.

The bottom line: Republicans can't and won't "out-give" the Democrats, and now that under the Obama administration the parasites vs producers ratio has passed the 50% point, it would appear that the USA will never recover from it's current economic malise.But yet, many wealthier states and individuals vote Democrat. And many poorer states and individuals vote Republican.

Jackson's reply illustrates the very point RH was making. Conservatives live in a world of false stereotypes, and their ideology blinds them from the realities of the broad electorate.

Esten

10-21-13, 23:57

Tiny12

10-22-13, 01:08

But yet, many wealthier states and individuals vote Democrat. And many poorer states and individuals vote Republican.
Many states that vote Republican exhibit stronger job growth, lower unemployment, and bigger gains in income compared to many states that vote Democrat. States that vote Democrat are losing population to states that vote Republican.

Conservatives live in a world of false stereotypes, and their ideology blinds them from the realities of the broad electorate.I agree to an extent. More Asians, Hispanics, Jews, Blacks, gays and young adults should support those Republicans who favor economic liberalism, as it would produce greater prosperity for all. The Republican party hasn't done a good job of appealing to them. Maybe a new generation of Republican politicians, like Jeff Flake and Rand Paul, will help. However, I don't see how you can tie that to Jackson's post. I agree with his conclusion that having large segments of the able-bodied population bought off by politicians in ways that discourage them from working or saving will lead to continued economic malise.

Rock Harders

10-22-13, 01:58

The bottom line: Republicans can't and won't "out-give" the Democrats, and now that under the Obama administration the parasites vs producers ratio has passed the 50% point, it would appear that the USA will never recover from it's current economic malise.

Thanks,

JacksonWrong again. Nine out of the top ten and seventeen out of the top twenty wealthiest states (by household per capita income) voted for Obama in 2012; if, as you argue, only "parasites" were supporting Obama this would surely not have been the case. Conversely, nine out of the ten poorest states and sixteen out of the bottom twenty in fact voted for Romney. As I stated in my previous post, these poor Republican voting states are populated mostly by ignorant white rednecks who get their information from Fox News and Rush Limbaugh; fortunately, this demographic is becoming increasing marginalized as US demographics change.

Tiny12

10-22-13, 02:36

Wrong again. Nine out of the top ten and seventeen out of the top twenty wealthiest states (by household per capita income) voted for Obama in 2012; if, as you argue, only "parasites" were supporting Obama this would surely not have been the case. Conversely, nine out of the ten poorest states and sixteen out of the bottom twenty in fact voted for Romney. As I stated in my previous post, these poor Republican voting states are populated mostly by ignorant white rednecks who get their information from Fox News and Rush Limbaugh; fortunately, this demographic is becoming increasing marginalized as US demographics change.Wealthier individuals were more likely to vote for Romney. Poorer individuals were more likely to vote for Obama. Sixty percent of voters making less than $50,000 per year voted for Obama, versus 44% making more than $100,000 per year: http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/elections/how_groups_voted/voted_12.html.

Do you believe wealthier individuals are more capable of selecting good candidates? Maybe votes should be allocated based on taxes paid, which should be a good proxy for wealth?

Rev BS

10-22-13, 04:02

These days, Fox & Bloomberg are the only 2 news stations on my network. Luckily, I can access several news sources for political content. But I don't quite know how to react to the bashing of RomneyCare. I have not heard one Basher say, "my insurance has gone up, my insurance have been cancel". Not one. All they can say that it is a disaster, that nothing is working, that Sebelius need to be fired.

CNN reports that as of Friday, Oct 19, that 257,000 has signed up. Not enrolled. Don't laugh, I know it's seem only like a trickle. We went through about "who laughs last" a while back.

Meanwhile, on Fox, nothing but screaming, "fire, fire, abandon ship, shoot the captain". I have to accept that they are paid to do that.

Member #4112

10-22-13, 08:35

For Doppey, it would be the venue of my choice. However, be assure that this will be my own favorite place. Insofar as ACA, he has only taken this stance just a few days ago. Prior to that, he was a very vocal member of the "gang that can't shoot straight" pushing for rejecting, repealing, then defunding ACA. Now with no more options, he has surrender to the last call, the crash that he is crying for. A praying mantis, he has become, saffron robe, shaved head, bare feet & all.Black Shirt, Doppey was one of the seven dwarfs who was boning Snow White.

As far as ObamaCare is considered I have not dropped my opposition to it as a wrongheaded power grab by Democrats which is unworkable in practice, financially unsupportable and needs to be repealed in its entirety. So my views have not changed. With the failure of the Supreme Court to strike it down I have said for some time it should be allowed to go into effect, the result of which will be a similar ground swell of support for Republicans as in 2010. If that occurs in 2014 the Republican's can repeal the law.

I have noticed in today's news the software developers were warning the HHS of problems with the system before the Oct 2nd launch but were ignored. HHS did the final testing of this colossal debacle instead of the programmers so that after so many delays of ObamaCare they could roll out something. Don' tell me it could not have been prevented with the site having fewer hits than many popular sites which run just fine such as Google, PayPal, Wikipedia.

Enough of the "happy talk" let's hear some answers since you so whole heartedly support this turkey.

Member #4112

10-22-13, 08:45

Another good one from PolitiFact. I guess Texas didn't want to support any of those nasty parasites, even if they are veterans.

40,000 veterans in Texas won't get health care because Perry rejected Obamacare's Medicaid expansion
PolitiFact Rated: MOSTLY TRUE
http://www.politifact.com/texas/statements/2013/oct/17/gilberto-hinojosa/more-veterans-income-qualify-Medicaid-Texas/Esten, please read the article. It does not say 40,000 vets would have been covered by Medicaid if Texas had accepted the expansion of same under ObamaCare. It ESTIMATES from a LEFT WING research group that 40,000 vet's incomes MIGHT fall within the expanded Medicaid guidelines not that they are not getting coverage.

The article barely mentions the VA nor does it even address if the referenced vets have insurance.

Big nothing as usual.

By the way the generous expansion of Medicaid benefits ObamaCare offers eventually shifts the entire expansion costs to the states which accepted it, I.e. Those states citizens now have a new unfunded liability down the road.

Rev BS

10-22-13, 11:30

Enough of the "happy talk" let's hear some answers since you so whole heartedly support this turkey.I support universal health care, you don't. And now, we are getting victorious about software? Software can be fix, dude. Even Texans should know that.

Member #4112

10-22-13, 14:33

I support universal health care, you don't. And now, we are getting victorious about software? Software can be fix, dude. Even Texans should know that.You are correct, I am against socialized medicine ie ObamaCare.

But this has never been about software and to attempt to change the argument is disingenuous on your part. ObamaCare in fact is not the myth Obama sold everyone and they are now coming to realize none of the promises are true. That is what this is about! The software problem, all 5 million lines of code which needs to be rewritten according to some experts, is just another symptom of the problem, just like part time employment, reduced or terminated benefits, increased costs and the list goes on.

In Houston the networks which are forming to provide services under ObamaCare are tier II or III hospitals, clinics and physicians, none of the tier I hospitals or groups in the Medical Center. You are going to get exactly what one would expect from FMG's, names you can not pronounce, in minimal healthcare settings, PA's or NP's to deliver the service and waiting lines to be seen just like everywhere else that has this type of medical treatment.

No one is claiming "Victory" here because there are not going to be any winners under ObamaCare.

Member #4112

10-22-13, 14:53

WT69 I know how you like political cartoons . Enjoy. Do you get it?

28892

Jackson

10-22-13, 16:56

Esten, please read the article. It does not say 40,000 vets would have been covered by Medicaid if Texas had accepted the expansion of same under ObamaCare. It ESTIMATES from a LEFT WING research group that 40,000 vet's incomes MIGHT fall within the expanded Medicaid guidelines not that they are not getting coverage.

The article barely mentions the VA nor does it even address if the referenced vets have insurance.

Big nothing as usual.Facts aren't important to Liberals.

Only emotion is important.

TejanoLibre

10-22-13, 19:30

The O-man, Barack Hussein Obama, is an eloquently tailored empty suit. No resume, no accomplishments, no experience, no original ideas, no understanding of how the economy works, no understanding of how the world works, no balls, nothing but abstract, empty rhetoric devoid of real substance.

He has no real identity. He is half-white, which he rejects. The rest of him is mostly Arab, which he hides but is disclosed by his non-African Arabic surname and his Arabic first and middle names as a way to triply proclaim his Arabic parentage to people in Kenya. Only a small part of him is African Black from his Luo grandmother, which he pretends he is exclusively.

What he isn't, not a genetic drop of, is 'African-American,' the descendant of enslaved Africans brought to America chained in slave ships. He hasn't a single ancestor who was a slave. Instead, his Arab ancestors were slave owners. Slave-trading was the main Arab business in East Africa for centuries until the British ended it.

Let that sink in: Obama is not the descendant of slaves, he is the descendant of slave owners. Thus he makes the perfect Liberal Messiah.

It's something Hillary doesn't understand. How some complete neophyte came out of the blue and stole the Dem nomination from her. Obamamania is beyond politics and reason. It is a true religious cult, whose adherents reject Christianity yet still believe in Original Sin, transferring it from the evil of being human to the evil of being white.

Thus Obama has become the white liberals' Christ, offering absolution from the Sin of Being White. There is no reason or logic behind it, no faults or flaws of his can diminish it, no arguments Hillary could make of any kind can be effective against it. The absurdity of Hypocrisy Clothed In Human Flesh being their Savior is all the more cause for liberals to worship him: Credo quia absurdum, I believe it because it is absurd.

Thank heavens that the voting majority of Americans remain Christian and are in no desperate need of a phony savior.

He is ridiculous and should not be taken seriously by any thinking American.

PASS THIS ON TO EVERY THINKING AMERICAN YOU KNOW!!

TL.

Rev BS

10-22-13, 22:11

Thank heavens that the voting majority of Americans remain Christian and are in no desperate need of a phony savior.

He is ridiculous and should not be taken seriously by any thinking American.

PASS THIS ON TO EVERY THINKING AMERICAN YOU KNOW!!

TL.Not blue enough? Is that what you are trying to say? You have explain the source of the blind hatred, it was there from the start. Hilary Clinton=acceptable, Barrack Hussein Obama=unacceptable. What do we call that kind of belief? Not racism, something else, but I can't seem to pin it down.

P.S. Nice write up, very eloquent, very discerning, too.

TejanoLibre

10-23-13, 01:10

Not blue enough? Is that what you are trying to say? You have explain the source of the blind hatred, it was there from the start. Hilary Clinton=acceptable, Barrack Hussein Obama=unacceptable. What do we call that kind of belief? Not racism, something else, but I can't seem to pin it down.

P.S. Nice write up, very eloquent, very discerning, too.I did not vote for him because I'm not allowed to vote in the USA but I would not have voted anyway because G.W was not in the running!

Man, I don't know ANYTHING about Politics or Religion!

I do know that abortion has been berry, berry good to me!

I do know a lot about Putas!

TL.

Punter 127

10-23-13, 05:26

BlackShirt flip-flops, or Just a case of do as I say, not as I do?

Not blue enough? Is that what you are trying to say? You have explain the source of the blind hatred, it was there from the start. Hilary Clinton=acceptable, Barrack Hussein Obama=unacceptable. What do we call that kind of belief? Not racism, something else, but I can't seem to pin it down.

Man, I don't know ANYTHING about Politics or Religion!

Don't fret TL, BS doesn't know anything about "Politics or Religion" either, not to speak of his lack of Constitutional knowledge. And you don't have to write a doctoral dissertation for his satisfaction.

According to BS own words you don't have to back up what you say or offer anything to support your remarks, and he seldom does.

I made my point. You don't like it, too bad. You reacted, and now it's time to move on. I don't have to write a doctoral dissertation for your satisfaction. You believe in what you know, you don't need to prove anything to anybody on this board. Neither do I.

Rev BS

10-23-13, 07:06

I did not vote for him because I'm not allowed to vote in the USA but I would not have voted anyway because G.W was not in the running!

Man, I don't know ANYTHING about Politics or Religion!

I do know that abortion has been berry, berry good to me!

I do know a lot about Putas!

TL.That's ok. Punter is right, all I do is express my opinions. Some like it, others hate it. Most don't give a shit. Often, I surprise myself with what I write. The words seem to have a life of their own, and before I know it, they are out there for all to ridicule. The sentence that our Punter objected, I should have stated, "What is the source of the blind hatred".

In any case, as Punter have highlighted, you don't have to explain yourself.

Member #4112

10-23-13, 08:44

Not blue enough? Is that what you are trying to say? You have explain the source of the blind hatred, it was there from the start. Hilary Clinton=acceptable, Barrack Hussein Obama=unacceptable. What do we call that kind of belief? Not racism, something else, but I can't seem to pin it down.It's what I love most about liberals, they have all the empathy in the world until you disagree with them and in the case of Obama if you say anything derogatory about him or his policies either you are a hater, redneck, or racist.

2889628895.

Rev BS

10-23-13, 09:43

Member #4112

10-23-13, 11:14

My man, Dr. Ben Carson in his weekly column at the Washington Times has this to say.

"Rather than complain about ObamaCare, it might be useful to begin to discuss some enhancements or future alternatives that can make it work effectively or provide an alternative if it fails.

Yes, my conservative brother, finally, we can stand together. I knew all along you would come through. Tall, let the arrows, buckshots, insults, barbs fly.Black Shirt would this be the same type of input, alternatives, enhancements and ideas the Democrats entertained while passing ObamaCare when they told the Republicans they could take their input, alternatives, enhancements and ideas and shove them up their ass, then passed ObamaCare without a single Republican Vote?

Is this the novel idea we are talking about "brother"?

Rev BS

10-23-13, 11:42

Black Shirt would this be the same type of in put, alternatives, enhancements and ideas the Democrats entertained while passing ObamaCare when they told the Republicans they could take their in put, alternatives, enhancements and ideas and shove them up their ass, them passed ObamaCare without a single Republican Vote?

Is this the novel idea we are talking about "brother"?Hey, I didn't write this. Just read the Washington Times (conservative) today. Under Opinions, Dr. Ben Carson, renowned neurosurgeon at John Hopkins, now retired. Admired and touted by the likes of Hannity & Limbaugh. Unknown by you? Just check with Punter 127 aka wikipedia. He will put you up to date.

Punter 127

10-23-13, 12:46

Member #4112

10-23-13, 13:16

Hey, I didn't write this. Just read the Washington Times (conservative) today. Under Opinions, Dr. Ben Carson, renowned neurosurgeon at John Hopkins, now retired. Admired and touted by the likes of Hannity & Limbaugh. Unknown by you? Just check with Punter 127 aka wikipedia. He will put you up to date.Yes Black Shirt, I am aware of who Dr. Carson is. I find your quoting him a bit hilarious when taken in the context of your posts.

I don't see a response to my post regarding all that input, alternatives, and suggestions when ObamaCare was being worked up by the Democrats.

By the way, isn't this the same Dr. Carson who was highly critical of ObamaCare at a function with Obama sitting at the head table? As I recall Obama was squirming a bit from the criticism of ObamaCare leveled by Dr. Carlson.

Just a coincidence that the IRS audited Dr. Carson after the comments?

Rev BS

10-23-13, 18:29

Yes Black Shirt, I am aware of who Dr. Carson is. I find your quoting him a bit hilarious when taken in the context of your posts.

I don't see a response to my post regarding all that input, alternatives, and suggestions when ObamaCare was being worked up by the Democrats.

By the way, isn't this the same Dr. Carson who was highly critical of ObamaCare at a function with Obama sitting at the head table? As I recall Obama was squirming a bit from the criticism of ObamaCare leveled by Dr. Carlson.

Just a coincidence that the IRS audited Dr. Carson after the comments?It was always my contention that ObamaCare is not the final perfect product. But universal care, it is, and that it can be worked on and improved as implementation gets under way. Obama knew that it was his only chance to pass the bill while they were in control of both Houses. Total rejection was the only alternative offered by the Republicans. Don't pretend otherwise. That is why it was rammed down your throat.

Yes, it is the same Dr. Ben Carson. And if you notice, you will never find him snickering and demeaning Obama. He will never be angry, anger is a waste of energy and is a negative emotion. Very classy guy, a good example for all of us to follow.

Let's be clear about one thing, I am not a Democrat or Republican. I just express my opinion.

Today seems to be a good day for a massage. Time to put a smile on my face and shed off all these hostilities. I think you need one, too.

Member #4112

10-23-13, 22:41

It was always my contention that ObamaCare is not the final perfect product. But universal care, it is, and that it can be worked on and improved as implementation gets under way. Obama knew that it was his only chance to pass the bill while they were in control of both Houses. Total rejection was the only alternative offered by the Republicans. Don't pretend otherwise. That is why it was rammed down your throat.

Yes, it is the same Dr. Ben Carson. And if you notice, you will never find him snickering and demeaning Obama. He will never be angry, anger is a waste of energy and is a negative emotion. Very classy guy, a good example for all of us to follow.

Let's be clear about one thing, I am not a Democrat or Republican. I just express my opinion.

Today seems to be a good day for a massage. Time to put a smile on my face and shed off all these hostilities. I think you need one, too.
Just what I need, an unmanageable, out of control, bankrupting healthcare plan run by one of the most dysfunctional governments we have seen in years telling me what to buy and why I have to pay for other's healthcare. Why exactly do we need universal healthcare? Screw because others have it, should we go jump off a cliff because someone else did.

By the way Carson has some pretty harsh words for ObamaCare or did you just miss that. He still has some pretty harsh words for this liberal turkey and knows it's not going to work. He also was not amused to be audited after his comments regarding ObamaCare. Yes he is classy guy but he is not stupid and if you will forgive the pun calls a Spade a Spade.

Thank you for your concern but I got laid twice today and am quite mellow until I read all this total BS about universal care. Return this to the local level and the charities, they do a much better job than the government ever will. If you want it work for it, enough government hand out programs.

Know what they say in Poland about sitting on your ass and asking someone else to pay your bills. TOUGH SHITISKY!

TejanoLibre

10-23-13, 23:07

Just what I need, an unmanageable, out of control, bankrupting healthcare plan run by one of the most dysfunctional governments we have seen in years telling me what to buy and why I have to pay for other's healthcare. Why exactly do we need universal healthcare? Screw because others have it, should we go jump off a cliff because someone else did.

By the way Carson has some pretty harsh words for ObamaCare or did you just miss that. He still has some pretty harsh words for this liberal turkey and knows it's not going to work. He also was not amused to be audited after his comments regarding ObamaCare. Yes he is classy guy but he is not stupid and if you will forgive the pun calls a Spade a Spade.

Thank you for your concern but I got laid twice today and am quite mellow until I read all this total BS about universal care. Return this to the local level and the charities, they do a much better job than the government ever will. If you want it work for it, enough government hand out programs.

Know what they say in Poland about sitting on your ass and asking someone else to pay your bills. TOUGH SHITISKY!I'm so glad that you got laid Twice today!

Obama is fucking Everybody at least twice a day!

I hope it wasn't the same girl twice!

That does not count!

Reminds me of when I use to go to "Boy's Town" and fuck 8 girls in 1 night.

Well, I guess I'm bragging!

It was actually 7 girls but I fucked 1 of them twice.

The first girl at 9:30 pm and then the same girl at 6:30 am but there were 7 different girls in the middle.

Is that 2 days?

Hell, it was one night to me!

One drink, one girl, 2 drinks and a 3-way, etc, etc.

Oh, those weekend getaways from Houston to Boy's Town, Laredo were so much FUN!

TL.

Now, can't We All Just Get Along?

TL.

P.S. Would love to hear from any of the Boys that have been to Papa Gallo's or Tamyko's in Boy's Town!

Stories!

Just don't tell us if you went to "Dallas Cowboy's!

Rev BS

10-23-13, 23:30

Just what I need, an unmanageable, out of control, bankrupting healthcare plan run by one of the most dysfunctional governments we have seen in years telling me what to buy and why I have to pay for other's healthcare. Why exactly do we need universal healthcare? Screw because others have it, should we go jump off a cliff because someone else did.

By the way Carson has some pretty harsh words for ObamaCare or did you just miss that. He still has some pretty harsh words for this liberal turkey and knows it's not going to work. He also was not amused to be audited after his comments regarding ObamaCare. Yes he is classy guy but he is not stupid and if you will forgive the pun calls a Spade a Spade.

Thank you for your concern but I got laid twice today and am quite mellow until I read all this total BS about universal care. Return this to the local level and the charities, they do a much better job than the government ever will. If you want it work for it, enough government hand out programs.

Know what they say in Poland about sitting on your ass and asking someone else to pay your bills. TOUGH SHITISKY!And still spitting & sputtering. Or is just the aftershocks of 2 orgasms. Also fine-tune the Viagra dosage. Easy on the alcohol intake when involved in enhancing stimulants.

And I never call Carson stupid, at least I don't recall. I apologize for spoiling your day.

Rev BS

10-23-13, 23:37

Reminds me of when I use to go to "Boy's Town" and fuck 8 girls in 1 night.You had me worried there for a moment. Then the fog cleared. But these days, one never knows.

TejanoLibre

10-23-13, 23:53

Reminds me of when I use to go to "Boy's Town" and fuck 8 girls in 1 night.
You had me worried there for a moment. Then the fog cleared. But these days, one never knows.

Absolutely TRUE stories !

I have witnesses and pictures somewhere !

It was the thing to do when growing up in Texas !

3 hours and 15 minutes with a really fast car from my house to the Mexican Border Crossing !

I have pictures of the Donkey tied up outside of one of the Hooker Bars too !

He always looked tired !

TL

A friend of mine was making out with one of the girls and then they brought the Donkey on stage with HER !

Priceless Moment !

TL

Esten

10-24-13, 00:05

Know what they say in Poland about sitting on your ass and asking someone else to pay your bills. TOUGH SHITISKY!There they go again, Conservatives peddling their stereotypes about masses of lazy people getting free handouts. I suppose TOUGH SHITSKY is their response to people who have pre-existing conditions or serious health problems, who can't get good healthcare, or are forced into bankruptcy paying their medical bills.

Good news, after implementation of the Affordable Care Act, the only real TOUGH SHITSKY is to these same Conservatives, and their futile attempts to block the new healthcare law. It's really time for them to move on. We are seeing some telltale signs of a shift, though it will take more time for them to break free from their destructive obsession.

I listened to a good exchange today on CNN. The anti-ACA guy was saying we should have a free market approach to improving our healthcare system, because the free market can always provide an answer to a problem. The pro-ACA guy simply pointed out the free market has FAILED to improve our healthcare system, it shuts out many people, and either isn't affordable to or bankrupts many others. The anti-ACA guy couldn't explain how the free market could address these issues. You don't hear much about Republican alternatives to the ACA, because the fact is their free-market ideas won't address the fundamental issues that the ACA addresses.

Esten

10-24-13, 00:13

Bucking some of the same conservative groups that encouraged the government shutdown, Republicans and Democrats united Wednesday to overwhelmingly pass an $8.2 billion House bill mapping out plans for dams, harbor, river navigation and other water projects for the coming decade.

"Make no mistake, this is a jobs bill," said Rep. Steve Southerland, R-Fla.

"This bill is about strengthening our infrastructure so we can remain competitive. It's about economic growth, it's about trade, it's about jobs," said Rep. Bill Shuster, R-Pa.http://news.yahoo.com/house-passes-8-2-billion-water-projects-bill-222444886--politics.html

Wait, are these the same Republicans who rail against spending, and claim that the government doesn't create jobs?

Member #4112

10-24-13, 09:25

There they go again, Conservatives peddling their stereotypes about masses of lazy people getting free handouts. I suppose TOUGH SHITSKY is their response to people who have pre-existing conditions or serious health problems, who can't get good healthcare, or are forced into bankruptcy paying their medical bills.

Good news, after implementation of the Affordable Care Act, the only real TOUGH SHITSKY is to these same Conservatives, and their futile attempts to block the new healthcare law. It's really time for them to move on. We are seeing some telltale signs of a shift, though it will take more time for them to break free from their destructive obsession.

I listened to a good exchange today on CNN. The anti-ACA guy was saying we should have a free market approach to improving our healthcare system, because the free market can always provide an answer to a problem. The pro-ACA guy simply pointed out the free market has FAILED to improve our healthcare system, it shuts out many people, and either isn't affordable to or bankrupts many others. The anti-ACA guy couldn't explain how the free market could address these issues. You don't hear much about Republican alternatives to the ACA, because the fact is their free-market ideas won't address the fundamental issues that the ACA addresses.Black Shirt, never touch Viagra for many reasons. You telling me you need a crutch to function?

That's right Esten, there are way too many people on the Federal Plantation and I would abolish it if possible. Our charity system worked just fine when operated at the local / state level in caring for the indigent. There have always been, are now and will always be bums, so get over it.

For your information Esten the Federal Government has been interfering with healthcare delivery in this country for over 50 years, so don't give me that "free market does not work" crap. You can see my earlier post regarding US healthcare delivery system Pre and Post 1964, I'm not even going to bother to post it again.

Why do we need "universal care" Esten other than to make liberals like you have a warm fuzzy? Johnson started all this with the Great Society and now we have an entitlement monster which will turn us into Greece.

I am sure the Liberals will be happy when the economy collapses under the weight of our national debt to cover all these "entitlement" programs and no one has anything. I am equally sure they will find some way to blame it on the Conservatives.

If you want something, get up off your ass and work for it. Plan for and take responsibility for your actions and the resulting consequences. Concepts liberals will never grasp as they ignore basic human nature.

Rev BS

10-24-13, 10:24

Black Shirt, never touch Viagra for many reasons. You telling me you need a crutch to functioni.I need a crutch for just about everything I do. We liberals, we were born without a backbone in our body. To crank it up, I have to call AAA for a jumpstart. They are threatening to cancel my insurance for overuse of my privileges.

Member #4112

10-24-13, 12:43

I need a crutch for just about everything I do. We liberals, we were born without a backbone in our body. To crank it up, I have to call AAA for a jumpstart. They are threatening to cancel my insurance for overuse of my privileges.Black Shirt you should have been in the Boy Scouts!

Use the tried and true drug free method:

Take two tongue depressor or popsicle sticks depending on size and roll for electrician's tape.

Place one tongue depressor / popsicle stick on each side of the member and wrap with the electrician's tape from stem to stern.

You can now be a HERO ALL NIGHT and be protected as well!

Practice safe sex. Never go wading without your galoshes!

Monger on Dude.

TejanoLibre

10-25-13, 17:52

Beats All of the recent cartoons!

28899

I must have 'Completo" myself or it's just not worth the price of admission!

TL.

WorldTravel69

10-27-13, 03:25

Women's right to Vote.

Jackson wants many words, but I am not a man of many words, but I do know right from wrong.

What is your opinion on this matter.

http://hinterlandgazette.com/2013/10/new-texas-voter-identification-laws-suppress-womens-votes.html

If a women gets married and uses her new name, Texas wants a birth certificate with the same name? How do you do that? She has to prove something that Republicans will not except.
So She Can Not Vote!

WTF?

Come On Where Are The Real Old Republicans, the Ones that care about all of Us? They would Not Go For This New Law.

How Do Feel?

Rev BS

10-27-13, 04:36

Black Shirt you should have been in the Boy Scouts!

Use the tried and true drug free method:

Take two tongue depressor or popsicle sticks depending on size and roll for electrician's tape.

Place one tongue depressor / popsicle stick on each side of the member and wrap with the electrician's tape from stem to stern.

You can now be a HERO ALL NIGHT and be protected as well!

Practice safe sex. Never go wading without your galoshes!

Monger on Dude.I am ahead of you. Where I am, bamboo groves aplenty, plenty of widths to choose from. Just chop a 8 in shaft, thin the outside membrane, soften the sharpen edges, soak it in coconut oil. Slide your dick in, and Rambo you go.

Should I register a patent for it? I am not much of an entrepreneur.

Member #4112

10-27-13, 12:22

I am ahead of you. Where I am, bamboo groves aplenty, plenty of widths to choose from. Just chop a 8 in shaft, thin the outside membrane, soften the sharpen edges, soak it in coconut oil. Slide your dick in, and Rambo you go.

Should I register a patent for it? I am not much of an entrepreneur.Thanks for the information, my patent application went out FedEx this morning. Of course I'll split the profits with my amigo.

I like the Asian slant and it should appeal to the safe the earth and all natural folks. I like the oil. Keeps smooth!

Don B

10-27-13, 14:34

For those who like cartoons as opposed to philosophical debate.

http://1.usa.gov/acamess

Don B

============================================

Greetings everyone,

Rather than chastize Don B for violating forum rules by posting a link without some description as to what the link is to, I thought I'd provide a description here for your advanced consideration, as follows:

This link will open a pdf file depicting the organizational chart for ObamaCare

Thanks,

Jax

Punter 127

10-27-13, 23:08

On the wine again WT?

Women's right to Vote.

Jackson wants many words, but I am not a man of many words, but I do know right from wrong.

What is your opinion on this matter.

http://hinterlandgazette.com/2013/10/new-texas-voter-identification-laws-suppress-womens-votes.html

If a women gets married and uses her new name, Texas wants a birth certificate with the same name? How do you do that? She has to prove something that Republicans will not except.
So She Can Not Vote!

WTF?

Come On Where Are The Real Old Republicans, the Ones that care about all of Us? They would Not Go For This New Law.

How Do Feel?To begin with the article is a misleading bunch of crap that was written for simpletons! And it does not say anything about needing a birth certificate with the same name, it says "a person's identification must match the current name.".

Anyone who legally changes their name has to get a new ID and to do that you must show proof of the name change. You have to do the same thing to change the name on your bank accounts and on your Social Security card. The link below explains the requirements for Social Security name change, do you think Social Security is trying keep them from getting benefits?

When you change your name on your drivers license / state ID in Texas you can also register to vote under the new name. It's so simple even a democrat can figure it out, although it will take them longer than normal folks.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/315/in

I almost forgot about how to "Change Your Name in Your U.S. Passport"

http://travel.state.gov/passport/correcting/ChangeName/ChangeName_851.html

So WTF is the big deal WT?

Tres3

10-28-13, 02:01

On the wine again WT?

Everyone needs to put WT on ignore. It will do a lot for the blood pressure. At first I just thought WT was out to piss people off, and doing a good job of it, but now I am convinced that he is just stupid. You cannot cure stupid, so why try?

Tres3.

Member #4112

10-28-13, 02:58

Christ WT where do you dig up this BS. I live in Texas and all you have to do is show them a certified copy of the MARRIAGE LICENSE and a government issued ID to change the name on the driver's license and since the "Motor Voter" BS the Democrats pushed through years ago anyone with a pulse can fill out a voter's registration card. Ask all the illegals how easy it is, they do it all the time.

Well I take the part back about having a pulse since Democrats have been voting from the grave for years.

Recent case in West Texas, woman went to the registrars office to complain since she had learned her older sister had voted in the last three election 2008, 2010, and 2012 according the voting records at her precinct. The reason she was complaining was her older sister died in January of 2008!

Punter 127

10-28-13, 12:17

If you haven't seen the CBS 60 Minutes report on Benghazi it's worth watching.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50157981n

Why Mr. President?

WorldTravel69

10-28-13, 12:53

Here is something about the new Laws against women.

http://www.policymic.com/articles/67635/texas-new-voter-id-laws-may-roll-back-women-s-voting-rights

On the wine again WT?

To begin with the article is a misleading bunch of crap that was written for simpletons! And it does not say anything about needing a birth certificate with the same name, it says "a person's identification must match the current name.".

Anyone who legally changes their name has to get a new ID and to do that you must show proof of the name change. You have to do the same thing to change the name on your bank accounts and on your Social Security card. The link below explains the requirements for Social Security name change, do you think Social Security is trying keep them from getting benefits?

When you change your name on your drivers license / state ID in Texas you can also register to vote under the new name. It's so simple even a democrat can figure it out, although it will take them longer than normal folks.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/315/in

I almost forgot about how to "Change Your Name in Your U.S. Passport"

http://travel.state.gov/passport/correcting/ChangeName/ChangeName_851.html

So WTF is the big deal WT?

Jackson

10-28-13, 13:13

Laws against womenLaws against women?

ROTFLMAO!

WT, where do you get this drivel?

Thanks,

Jax.

WorldTravel69

10-28-13, 13:20

Isn't it great what you can find on the WEB.

But, some of it is like the misinformation the Republicans put out.

I'm not saying that this is.

Laws against women?

ROTFLMAO!

WT, where do you get this drivel?

Thanks,

Jax.

Tiny12

10-28-13, 16:40

Isn't it great what you can find on the WEB.

But, some of it is like the misinformation the Republicans put out.

I'm not saying that this is.The part about having to go to the state capital to get a copy of your birth certificate is misinformation, completely wrong. A person who was born in the state can walk into any county courthouse and get a replacement on the spot in maybe 10 minutes, unless the line is long. I've done it. That's not to say a recently-married woman would even need a copy of her birth certificate, based on Doppelganger's post below.

From what I've read, when there are reasonable discrepancies in the name based on the voter's ID card and what's on the roll of registered voters, election officials are allowing people to sign an affidavit on the spot and vote, and that's the end of it. If there's any kind of a larger issue where the affidavit can't be used, the voter places a provisional ballot and follows up later with documentation for the name change. That's rare though, I read that it only occurred once in a recent election in Dallas County. Also, when a person goes into vote whose name has changed and who brings documentation for the change, the election officials are correcting their databases on the spot -- you don't need to make a special trip beforehand in order to vote.

I am very skeptical that 34% of women wouldn't have identification showing their true names.

Punter 127

10-28-13, 22:28

WT your link is just another example of the crap the left is peddling to simpletons these days.

Though the law requires that names on both the identification card and the voter registration card be “substantially similar,” if a person’s name doesn’t match exactly they will still have an opportunity to vote. In that case, voters are required to sign an affidavit affirming they are who they claim, which is then noted in the poll book.[snip]

There are seven acceptable forms of identification accepted in Texas, including a state-issued driver’s license, handgun license or identification card, military ID cards, citizenship cards, passports, and the Texas Election Identification Certificate, a free ID card distributed by the Department of Public Safety that can be used to vote.[snip]

The state has implemented extended hours and deployed mobile units to make getting election ID easier. Yet, as of last week, just 41 people across the state had been issued with the cards, the Dallas Morning News reports.[snip]I don't see why this is a problem all they have to do is show their handgun license...lol

Why aren’t you complaining about SS, Passport, and bank requirements for proof of name change? And Why are you singling out Texas?

I've lived in two other states before Texas became my official residence and they all required an ID to vote. Judging from what I went through to become a Texas resident obtaining an ID in Texas is a pretty painless process and unlike my experiences in the north the people are very helpful and friendly. Believe it or not the only thing I've found that's more difficult in Texas is getting a gun permit, Texas is the most stringent of the three states.

A name change is a choice not a requirement and like all choices in life it has consequences, and the responsibility of obtaining a new ID is one of those consequences.

The voter ID law applies equally to everyone who has a name change regardless of sex.

Jackson

10-29-13, 13:08

If you haven't seen the CBS 60 Minutes report on Benghazi it's worth watching.

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=50157981n

Why Mr. President?Unfortunately, there isn't anything new in the 60 Minutes piece.

On November 14, 2012 Obama announced that "We need to get to the bottom of Benghazi" and to "cooperate in any way that Congress wants", and yet to date not a single person has lost their job or been held accountable in the slightest way, and...

- We still don't know why advance warnings about a 9/11 attack in Benghazi were ignored.

- We still don't know what was discussed in the National Security briefing on Libya that Obama attended the day before the attack.

- We still don't know where and what Obama was doing during the 9 hour attack, except that for part of the time he was on a flight to a fund raiser in LA.

- We still don't know who ordered the US Military to stand down and not even attempt a rescue.

- We still don't know who ordered Susan Rice to go on national television two days later and repeatedly assert that the entire attack was a "spontaneous reaction to an anti-Islam video and not a premeditated assault."

And all this obfuscation from what Obama himself claims is "the most transparent administration in history".

Thanks,

Jax

PS: Of course, I'm sure that WT can find a link to an internet page that explains everything.

Rev BS

10-31-13, 02:53

Punter 127

10-31-13, 06:11

Piers Morgan: Democrats' Excuses 'Get Ever More Ludicrous'

Comedian and liberal political commentator Bill Maher says President Barack Obama should have been upfront that people would lose the health insurance they like under the Affordable Care Act.

But Maher believes that if he had, Obamacare likely would never have passed.

"I don't think Obama should have lied to people," Maher said Tuesday on CNN's Piers Morgan Live. Host Morgan, a supporter of Obamacare and native of Great Britain where healthcare is provided by the government, agreed with Maher that Obama's repeated promise was "a barefaced lie."

Republican politicians and conservative pundits alike said Obama wasn't being honest when he said that his signature healthcare plan would allow anyone who liked his or her insurance policy to keep it. Rules written after the bill passed made virtually all the "grandfathered" policies illegal.

"The thing passed by this much," Maher said holding his thumb and forefinger inches apart. Had Obama told people that many of them would lose the insurance they like it wouldn't have had a chance, he admitted.

Maher also doubts Obama is being truthful when he says he was unaware the United States was spying on the leaders of allied countries, including German Chancellor Angela Merkel.

The White House's insistence that Obama was out of the loop is "not credible and not excusable," Maher said. "I thought he was the detail guy."Even WT 69's old buddy Bill Maher admitts Obama is a liar. Looks like Dr. Benjamin Carson is right about Obama.

"Obamacare is really the worst thing that has happened to this nation since slavery'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVvz7o6CDls

Jackson

10-31-13, 13:03

O give me a home where the buffalo roam.

Where the deer and antelope play.

Where seldom is heard a discouraging word.

And the skies are not cloudy all day.

Then the Tea Party show up, and all hell broke loose.Is this the internet equivalent of holding your hands over your ears while saying "na-na-na-na-na-na"?

Member #4112

10-31-13, 13:21

The silence from our members on the left is deafening regarding ObamaCare's roll out.

I do see the occasional bit of name calling and blaming the Tea Party but not the resounding ground swell of support we on the right usually hear from the left regarding the President's signature achievement. Could it be because the Tea Party and Republicans are being proved correct in many of their claims made during and after the passage of ObamaCare?

Obama's claim if you liked your insurance and physician you can keep them, was a barefaced lie when he first said it and later HHS posted a document on the national register stating clearly that was not the case and millions of policies would be canceled when ObamaCare took effect and those policies did not meet the new minimum standards of the law.

Yesterday Obama gives a speech telling those whose polices are being canceled due to ObamaCare should "shop around" because that is "what the exchanges are for". Would that be the exchanges Mr. President no one can access and are not functioning?

During this same speech Obama followed that up with another barefaced lie saying "Because of the tax credits that we are offering, and the competition between insurers, most people are going to be able to get better, comprehensive healthcare plans for the same price or even cheaper than projected." In the face of the facts even the Democrats concede ObamaCare is not going to reduce the cost of coverage by $2,500 as Obama claimed nor is it going to stop the increase in the cost of healthcare. As renewals are coming in and new policies issued the price is not going down but up. How do you offer more coverage for less money? You can't.

The latest challenge to this macabre nightmare called ObamaCare is most interesting and will determine if we are a country governed by the rule of law. The case involves subsidies which ObamaCare is to pay out for some polices. It seems the Democrats forgot to proof read their own legislative monster. ObamaCare clearly states the STATE exchanges are empowered to provide subsidies. The 36 states which did not establish exchanges and therefore the federal government established an exchange at the federal level is where the problem lies. While the law clearly provides for STATE exchanges to provide subsidies it also CLEARLY DOES NOT PROVIDE THE FEDERAL EXCHANGES THE ABILITY TO PROVIDE SUBSIDIES.

Of course there is a very easy solution to this problem, pass additional legislation providing this ability to the Federal Exchanges. Obama and the Democrats know this will never happen with the Republicans in control of the House. The Obama administration attempted to have the Federal Judge hearing the case throw it out. The request was denied with the Federal Judge stating the case has merit and will proceed to trial. So now we will determine if we are a country governed under the rule of law or if the Democrats and Obama rule by fiat and do as they wish no matter what the written law provides.

Daddy Rulz

10-31-13, 18:16

I just want to break a story here and since I have to read this thread now I'm tired of reading about Obama care.

Israel apparently dropped some ordinance on Syria, if the Saudis are to be believed.

"Israel destroyed Hezbollah-bound missile shipment in Syria".

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/1.555428

TejanoLibre

10-31-13, 22:26

Esten

11-01-13, 01:46

The latest attacks, apparently aren't hurting public opinion of the new law (see the Gallup article "More Americans Approve of Healthcare Law Post-Shutdown"). Probably because most people who apply a little critical thinking understand, the website glitches will be fixed soon enough, and the "Obama lied" claims are overblown. Obama had several variations of his "you can keep your insurance" statement.

"If you "already have health insurance through your job, or Medicare, or Medicaid, or the VA, nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have."
September 9th, 2009
PolitiFact rating: TRUE

"If you're one of the more than 250 million Americans who already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance."
June 28th, 2012
PolitiFact rating: HALF TRUE

"If you like your plan, you can keep it."
Not listed / rated on PolitiFact

Even statements like the last two, are still true for most people. But not for some. So if something is true for most, and false for a minority, is it a lie? Folks can decide for themselves. In my case, I am keeping my insurance plan, so Obama's statements are entirely accurate for me. I'll agree with the folks who say Obama should have phrased it better, more consistently. Expect Repubs to continue to obsess over this for awhile, trying to distract Americans from the damage the government shutdown caused, and the infighting within their party. Meanwhile, readers should inform themselves of how the new law is helping Americans. Repubs want people to turn a blind eye to the good of the new law, and focus on their narrow world of anger and resentment.

You Might Hate Obamacare, But It's Saved These People's Lives
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/05/i-am-obamacare-_n_4046470.html

Punter 127

11-01-13, 04:13

Big Boss Man

11-01-13, 12:41

Birds of a Feather Flock Together.

On June 15, 2009, Obama said this: "We will keep this promise to the American people. If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period.”

In 2012, he echoed that sentiment, saying, "“If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”
"If you like your doctor, you will be able to keep your doctor. Period. If you like your health care plan, you will be able to keep your health care plan. Period. No one will take it away. No matter what."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfl55GgHr5E

http://news.yahoo.com/obama-administration-knew-millions-wouldn-t-be-able-to-keep-insurance--report-222249311.html

Of course the experience of most Americans is that they have kept their doctors and their health insurance. Some people I know have not been able to sign up yet but they did not have health insurance in the first place. Some people have lost their insurance because their insurance company withdrew from the market. I used to have Farmers Home Owners insurance until Farmers withdrew from the California market. I liked it. Should the government have forced Farmers to continue to provide Homeowners insurance in California because some of the customer's preferred the service? I would argue that people who lost their health insurance because their company withdrew from the market should not be counted as a failed promise of government.

Member #4112

11-01-13, 15:22

Of course the experience of most Americans is that they have kept their doctors and their health insurance. Some people I know have not been able to sign up yet but they did not have health insurance in the first place. Some people have lost their insurance because their insurance company withdrew from the market. I used to have Farmers Home Owners insurance until Farmers withdrew from the California market. I liked it. Should the government have forced Farmers to continue to provide Homeowners insurance in California because some of the customer's preferred the service? I would argue that people who lost their health insurance because their company withdrew from the market should not be counted as a failed promise of government.BBM you present a well crafted explanation with one problem, the central theme being the voluntary withdrawal of a company from a market. There was no "withdrawal" in the case of these health insurance plans, the were CANCELLED due to their coverage being considered "substandard" under ObamaCare and therefore illegal. This was no voluntary action by insurance carries but a termination REQUIRED by ObamaCare effective 01/01/2014, which is quite different from scenario you presented.

Did Obama lie? Was this another broken promise? Does a bear shit in the woods? Even Piers Morgan called it a "barefaced lie". Morgan even went on to say if Obama had revealed the truth about ObamaCare it would never have passed even in a Democrat controlled House and Senate.

Explain to me why seniors need maternity benefits; why people who have never taken drugs, smoked or drank must now pay for substance abuse coverage; why young people with no need for much of the mandated coverage are forced to buy it?

If Bush had told the same lies Obama is telling about this plan the liberal press would have crucified him.

Are you one of those Obamaites who worship at his alter and demand reality be suspended?

Don B

11-01-13, 16:32

"The solution to America's health care problems is not more government intervention. Government violations of individual rights through government interference in the marketplace are the source of the problems. Government meddling in health insurance has all but eliminated choice, competition, and innovation, and has driven up the cost of health insurance. Government interference in medicine has caused incalculable harm to both patients and doctors, and driven up the cost of health care. Government controls have bred more controls, as politicians and bureaucrats have tried to "solve" the problems created by one set of regulations by imposing another set, and so forth, in a vicious spiral of increased costs, rationing, suffering, and death. Just as a doctor would not attempt to treat a burn victim by exposing him to more heat, so we should not attempt to solve our health care problems through more government intervention.

The only moral and practical solution to this now-behemoth problem is to acknowledge that government intervention in health care and in health insurance is wrong, and to start in earnest to eliminate all such interference. This is the moral approach to solving the problem because it recognizes that the producers of health care goods and services have an inalienable right to dispose of the fruits of their thought and labor as they see fit, seeking their best interests through free trade in the marketplace. And it is the practical approach to solving the problem because it will lead to high-quality medical care at the prices that make such care possible—the prices on which providers and patients voluntarily agree. —Lin Zinser and Paul Hsieh.

http://www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2007-winter/moral-vs-universal-health-care.asp

The intellectually dishonest progressives in this forum will as usual disagree and as usual will refuse to debate why their position is morally correct.

Don B

Jackson

11-01-13, 18:02

The intellectually dishonest progressives in this forum will as usual disagree and as usual will refuse to debate why their position is morally correct.

Don BFacts aren't important to Liberals.

Only emotion is important.

Big Boss Man

11-01-13, 20:55

BBM you present a well crafted explanation with one problem, the central theme being the voluntary withdrawal of a company from a market. There was no "withdrawal" in the case of these health insurance plans, the were CANCELLED due to their coverage being considered "substandard" under ObamaCare and therefore illegal. This was no voluntary action by insurance carries but a termination REQUIRED by ObamaCare effective 01/01/2014, which is quite different from scenario you presented. I was thinking about Tiny12's October 19 post.

"It looks like the Republicans were right."

My guaranteed issue health insurance is being cancelled as Welpoint can do that if they withdraw from the personal insurance market in the state. My choices are limited to one of the Obamacare plans that are basically all HMO-type plans with limited hospitals / cancer centers / heart centers. You don't have a choice of where to be treated if you get sick, at any price point.

You can only go to the approved places, which in Nevada. Suck.

My insurance is being canceled too as a result of the Affordable Care Act, as the insurance company is abandoning my state.

Explain to me why seniors need maternity benefits; why people who have never taken drugs, smoked or drank must now pay for substance abuse coverage; why young people with no need for much of the mandated coverage are forced to buy it? It is universal healthcare and over a lifetime everyone will need different medical services. The larger the insurance pool the cheaper it is for everyone. If you create insurance pools solely based on needs, it is not insurance but rather a pay as you go system similar to what Don be is advocating.

If Bush had told the same lies Obama is telling about this plan the liberal press would have crucified him.The National Review, Weekly Standard and Washington Times are not doing a good enough job of crucifying Obama? Or is it that Liberals are better writers? Heck read Peggy Noonan or Daniel Henniger in the WSJ if you need an Obama is a bum fix.

Did Obama lie? Was this another broken promise? Does a bear shit in the woods? Even Piers Morgan called it a "barefaced lie". Morgan even went on to say if Obama had revealed the truth about ObamaCare it would never have passed even in a Democrat controlled House and Senate.

Are you one of those Obamaites who worship at his alter and demand reality be suspended?You quote Piers Morgan as if he is some kind of moral authority so who is worshiping who? I have heard the name but I am not quite sure who Piers Morgan is and why I should listen to him.

Tiny12

11-01-13, 22:12

I was thinking about Tiny12's October 19 post.

"It looks like the Republicans were right.

An update, my friend found a policy he likes better than the one he had, after he figured out he had other options besides what was on the government's web site. He will be able to use the new policy to pay for expenses at the cancer hospital he's going to in California, after he satisfies an $11,000/ year out-of-network deductible. So he would probably no longer believe "the Republicans were right." He's buying an Aetna policy sold through Costco -- you can Google it. He's a pretty thorough researcher, so I bet this is a good, cost-effective policy if you have a pre-existing condition and are losing your policy because of the ACA. I haven't started looking yet for a policy to replace mine, which will be cancelled December 31.

Contrary to what a couple of people have said here, most Obama-haters, including me, support universal heath care. We've already got that. What I don't support is a complicated, inefficient system that will continue to cost 50% more than any other health care system in the world, and that will continue to provide outcomes worse than in many developed countries that spend a lot less. The system will likely be even more expensive, more complicated, and provide poorer quality care once the ACA is implemented.

Also I don't like the new ACA tax, which is really an increase in the income tax. While a couple of posters on the left would criticize my selfishness for not gracefully giving more money to the federal government since I am so incredibly blessed, they should realize I'll actually be paying a lot less in taxes. The taxes I pay on my 2013 income will be less than 10% of what I paid on 2012 income. The reasons - first, since 43.4% of the marginal dollars I make are going to the federal government, not counting what goes to states, I quit generating income. If incrementally over 50% of what you make goes to government, why bust your ass? Second, it made more sense to sell everything in 2012 and pay 15% capital gains tax, instead of paying 43.4% federal tax on income realized in future years. And finally, just keeping up with tax reporting and government regulations has become about a half time job, leaving less time to produce income the federal government can milk. When the government gets too greedy and complicates things it backfires.

Punter 127

11-03-13, 12:32

CNN: Democrats Voted Unanimously for Rule that Led to Insurance Cancellations.

CNN reports that in September of 2010, in an attempt to let people keep their insurance plans, Senate Republicans tried to block the grandfather rule that is currently resulting in millions of Americans having their insurance policies cancelled. Democrats, including many who are facing re-election next year, unanimously voted to support the rule. The result, as we have seen, is two million already losing the insurance plan Obama repeatedly promised they could keep.

In its report, CNN points out that the whole point of the GOP efforts was to protect millions from losing their insurance. So what we have here is yet more proof that the GOP has been warning for years about this avoidable catastrophe, while the media and Democrats covered their ears and screamed happy talk.

In September 2010, Senate Republicans brought a resolution to the floor to block implementation of the grandfather rule, warning that it would result in canceled policies and violate President Barack Obama’s promise that people could keep their insurance if they liked it. …

On a party line vote, Democrats killed the resolution, which could come back to haunt vulnerable Democrats up for re-election this year.

The bad news for Democrats is that every single Senate Democrat facing a tough 2014 reelection -- Mary Landrieu, Jeanne Shaheen, Mark Pryor, Kay Hagan and Mark Begich -- is now on record voting for a rule that will not only result in up to 20 million losing insurance they were happy with, but doing so after being warned that this would happen."covering their ears and screamed happy talk" Some just sang their version of home on the range. (Of course that was after he told us he had free insurance and nothing changed for him.)

BTW, after working my entire life I have lost my health insurance, I'd really like to thank you progressives.

Jackson

11-03-13, 13:41

...now I am convinced that he is just stupid. You cannot cure stupid, so why try?The problem is that the incurably stupid people vote, and in fact "the stupids" can be counted on to vote solely for whatever party promises to give them the most free money, regardless of whether that money has to be borrowed from the Chinese and someday repaid by their grandchildren.

Tres3

11-03-13, 15:49

I am for universal health care, but the ACA handling by Obama and his Administration is a case study in incompetence. They were running the largest start-up in history, and they did not have anyone on the team who had run a start-up, or a business. Instead they had a bunch of politicians whose priority was a fear of the GOP. With that cast of characters, implementation of a law that was over 2000 pages long was doomed to failure from the get go. We suspected that Obama was incompetent, but the ACA implementation proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Tres3.

Member #4112

11-03-13, 16:26

You quote Piers Morgan as if he is some kind of moral authority so who is worshiping who? I have heard the name but I am not quite sure who Piers Morgan is and why I should listen to him.BBM I have no use for Piers Morgan what so ever, but to point out when a progressive / liberal such as Morgan begins trashing ACA and Obama calling Obama's statements a "barefaced lie" I find that pretty starling.

Rev BS

11-03-13, 18:31

If you are under any employer sponsored medical plans, you can hum loudly. If you are under Medicare, you can hum, even sing. If you do not have a job, you can hum somewhat out of tune (no job), but because under poverty provisions, you can qualify for subsidized medical insurance. If you are live out of the country, you can either croak or hum because ACA does not apply to you. And your financial & health condition will dictate your humming.

There will be changes insofar as HMOs & insurance companies are still scratching their ass & crotch over the fact that their Mafia business practices will be affected. But then, their new generation of Ivy League managers will see that there is still alot of money still to be made, rather than going into loan sharking, kidnapping or drug dealing. Just ask Jamie Dimon.

Then the humming will get louder, from your unfaithful ex-spouse, your good-for-nothing kids, and your disloyal friends. Your dog might even start humming since you are not kicking him as much.

Yes, it is a big change, somewhat, like a mid-life crisis for a sick America. But a necessary change. As for my boring life, it is the same boring medical coverage. A coverage I hope I never have to use, at least sparingly. You know what I mean.

Rev BS

11-03-13, 18:48

BBM I have no use for Piers Morgan what so ever, but to point out when a progressive / liberal such as Morgan begins trashing ACA and Obama calling Obama's statements a "barefaced lie" I find that pretty starling.Piers Morgan is no different from Hannity or 90% of talk show hosts. They will say anything for ratings. They will sell their mothers. Every program, they will have certain sensational talking points, program for impact. Any guest that can make any headway towards thwarting that format will get interrupted repeatedly and asked questions that will not allow any context to be given. "Controversial" is the catchword for modern media, negativity is to be milked to the fullest.

So the question, does Obama lie more than any other politician? 5%, 50%?

Tiny12

11-04-13, 01:00

The problem is that the incurably stupid people vote, and in fact "the stupids" can be counted on to vote solely for whatever party promises to give them the most free money, regardless of whether that money has to be borrowed from the Chinese and someday repaid by their grandchildren.I agree with this 100%. Not only are we looking at financial Armageddon some day if we can't bring entitlements under control, but many people are better off without the free money. They would lead happier, more fulfilled lives.

The original post several pages ago involved WT69. I believe WT69 is smarter than your average lefty. He does see potential wisdom in some libertarian positions, like a flat tax. And, if he's retired and has no children or grandchildren in the USA, he does stand to benefit personally from Obama's policies. Contrast to the youth of America, who overwhelmingly voted for Obama, even though he's going to leave them with a huge debt to pay.

Esten

11-04-13, 01:29

...sound like a broken record.

Would you like some cheese with that whine?

WorldTravel69

11-04-13, 03:35

Guess What A Republican Governor Wanted It.

Arnold S.

It Works. I am Saving Money.

Yes, There are some WEB some Problems on the Total states signup. The states that refused to have their States sign up for it in the First place are the problem..

The states that that signed up for it from the start have only a few problems.

Maybe your Political Party does not want you have Health Care. Or they want you to pay more for your Health Care Insurance.

The states that are working for the people have a few problems.

Tres3 What state do you live in?

I am for universal health care, but the ACA handling by Obama and his Administration is a case study in incompetence. They were running the largest start-up in history, and they did not have anyone on the team who had run a start-up, or a business. Instead they had a bunch of politicians whose priority was a fear of the GOP. With that cast of characters, implementation of a law that was over 2000 pages long was doomed to failure from the get go. We suspected that Obama was incompetent, but the ACA implementation proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

Tres3.

El Perro

11-04-13, 03:37

WorldTravel69

11-04-13, 03:49

Ed Schultz, of the Ed Show, MSBCTV asked Sean Hannity on FOX to have a discussion together.

Hannity will not have any talks with anyone that does not have his same point of view.

Silver Star

11-04-13, 04:48

Ed Schultz, of the Ed Show, MSBCTV asked Sean Hannity on FOX to have a discussion together.

Hannity will not have any talks with anyone that does not have his same point of view.Not true!

Hannity has had Libertarian Penn Jillette on, who on many many issues is different (Better) than Hannity...

Libertarian is better than Republican.

Rev BS

11-04-13, 05:19

Not true!

Hannity has had Libertarian Penn Jillette on, who on many many issues is different (Better) than Hannity...

Libertarian is better than Republican.Where he can control the talk flow. At any sign of the talk not going his way, a timely commercial break can always happen. And I heard Hannity when pressed by Juan Williams, kind of muttered under his breath, " I'm not Republican". Not surprisingly, Juan Williams did not jump in and press the issue, they all feed from the same trough. Yes, a very good materialistic life do this people have, and they sleep very well, too. Thank you very much.

Tiny12

11-04-13, 13:13

Yes, There are some WEB some Problems on the Total states signup. The states that refused to have their States sign up for it in the First place are the problem..

The states that that signed up for it from the start have only a few problems.

Yes, as DCCPA pointed out, good state and local governments do things much better than the federal government. Government closer to the people works better. This would include designing web sites for insurance exchanges. So why not let the states do everything? If Massachusetts wants Romneycare, it can have it. If another state wants a system where there's a truly a free market in health care, with transparency and competition in setting prices, it could try it, if some modifications were made to Medicare and Medicaid. Then maybe the best systems could be copied and spread to other states. Or people could vote with their feet, like they are now for other reasons when they leave states like New York and California and migrate to Arizona, Texas, etc.

WorldTravel69

11-04-13, 13:27

Jackson

11-04-13, 18:10

There is an article in Sunday's paper written by Robert Reich talking about the same thing.Robert Reich is a communist.

Tres3

11-04-13, 19:20

Robert Reich is a communist.Why don't you tell us how you really feel about Robert Reich? LOL.

Tres3.

Don B

11-04-13, 21:05

Robert Reich is a communist.Worse than that he is a Democrat. At least Communists are honest about their intentions.

Don B

WorldTravel69

11-05-13, 00:18

It is kind of hard to do, if you live in a Democratic country.

What is Michele Bachmann?

This what she said while fielding a question about which social programs she would cut if president, the Minnesota Congresswoman said that "China provided a good example of a society without a social safety net."

Bachmann said that "Lyndon Johnson's Great Society has "not worked, and it's put us into the modern welfare state...If you look at China, they don't have food stamps."

She continued, "They save for their own retirement security, they don't have AFDC (Aid to Families With Dependent Children), they don't have the modern welfare state, and China's growing...and so what I would do is look at the programs that LBJ gave us, with The Great Society, and they'd be gone."

The fact that China's government is resolutely socialist appeared to be lost on her.

Maybe she is a commie?

Robert Reich is a communist.

Tiny12

11-05-13, 01:26

There is an article in Sunday's paper written by Robert Reich talking about the same thing.

Originally the Democrats wanted to graft health care into Social Security and Medicare, but republicans did not want that.

They supported private health insurers.

Under Nixon in 1974 he proposed what is the same as the Affordable Car Act.My opinion of Red Robert Reich is similar to other posters here. He's a partisan hack masquerading as an intellectual, who lies through his teeth for his party and his neo-corporatist* agenda.

HOWEVER, he has a point. Not about Republicans. Since Nixon in 1974 the Republican Party has experienced Reagan, Gingrich, and the Tea Party. It's a different animal. The majority of Republicans today wouldn't support the ACA, with or without Obama. But there is a need for radical restructuring of the health care system. If health care were grafted onto social security like it is in Singapore, so that most of health care expenditures were the responsibility of individuals and there were real competition and price transparency, I could support that. I could also support a system like what Jackson has described in Argentina, where a small part of GDP, maybe 5%, would pay for universal public health care, while private options would also be allowed. Please note that 5% of GDP would be less than what's spent in the USA on Medicare and Medicaid, but more than what's spent in Singapore for all its health care. And by almost every statistic, medical care is superior in Singapore to the USA.

This is all a pipe dream though. The vested interests, being seniors who expect to take 2 or 3 times more out of Medicare than what they spent on it, the insurance companies, and the lawyers who sue doctors and the insurance companies, will never allow the free market to exist in medicine. And, if you were to put somebody like Robert Reich in charge of health care, he would muck it up worse than it is now, like what's happening with the ACA.

*Note to Esten: This word is for you. You should cheerfully accept that you're a Neo-corporatist, just as I'm proud of my new label that you kindly provided, Neoliberal.

Rev BS

11-05-13, 07:58

But there is a need for radical restructuring of the health care system. If health care were grafted onto social security like it is in Singapore, so that most of health care expenditures were the responsibility of individuals and there were real competition and price transparency, I could support that. A new viewpoint? Ala Ben Carson?

A little historical perspective from Wikipedia: The 1993 Republican alternative, introduced by Sen. John Chafee as the Health & Access Reform Bill Today Act contained an "universal coverage" requirement with a penalty for non compliance-an individual mandate as well as subsidies to be used in state based purchasing programs. Of the 43 Republican Senators from 1993, almost half-20 out of 43 supported the HEART ACT. At that time of these proposals, Republicans did not raise constitutional issues with the mandate.

So what gives? It can't be about funding? It can't be about personal liberties?

It was all about Obama. I will leave at that.

Tiny12

11-05-13, 12:41

A new viewpoint? Ala Ben Carson?

A little historical perspective from Wikipedia: The 1993 Republican alternative, introduced by Sen. John Chafee as the Health & Access Reform Bill Today Act contained an "universal coverage" requirement with a penalty for non compliance-an individual mandate as well as subsidies to be used in state based purchasing programs. Of the 43 Republican Senators from 1993, almost half-20 out of 43 supported the HEART ACT. At that time of these proposals, Republicans did not raise constitutional issues with the mandate.

So what gives? It can't be about funding? It can't be about personal liberties?

It was all about Obama. I will leave at that.You're agreeing with me then? In 1993, twenty years ago, before the 1994 Gingrich Revolution and the Tea Party, a majority of Republicans in the Senate did not support something that you believe was similar to the ACA? How much would the 1993 legislation have cost the taxpayer? How much will Obamacare cost the taxpayer? So if this was popular among Republicans at the same time Hillary Clinton was pushing health care reform, how come nothing came of any of it? These are really questions, I don't know the answers.

Member #4112

11-05-13, 17:20

Food for Thought.

28900

Nuf said!

Punter 127

11-06-13, 02:13

Hum on this BS!

If you are under any employer sponsored medical plans, you can hum loudly. My former employer no longer offers the catastrophic policy I carried, except if you're under 30 years of age. (age discrimination?)

If you do not have a job, you can hum somewhat out of tune (no job), but because under poverty provisions, you can qualify for subsidized medical insurance.Yes of course we take better care of those that refuse to work than those who worked all their lives.

If you are live out of the country, you can either croak or hum because ACA does not apply to you. And your financial & health condition will dictate your humming.Not completely true if like me your not out of the country for 330 day a year your not exempt. I live out of the country 8 or 9 months a year, so I will be required to buy insurance for the entire year and it will cost much more than the catastrophic policy I carried before.

You call this universal heath care, how well does it pay if you're out of network or how about out of the country?

There are ways I could lessen the impact of this such as delaying SS benefits and not taking 401k or IRA money and only showing my pension as income. I would actually qualify for a subsidy, but I don't want to delay SS and I don't want a government handout to purchase something I don't want or need to begin with.

I worked all my life (first job at age twelve) and went through some pretty lean times but I never accepted a handout and I don't plan on taking one now. So thanks to you progressives and your nannyism I will be forced to engage in civil disobedience, I will refuse to buy insurance and make sure I don't have a tax refund coming so they can't collect the penalty. Before ObamaCare I had catastrophic coverage now I'm at the mercy of the gods. Perhaps you, Obama, and Dr. Carson could say a little prayer for me next Sunday at church.

WorldTravel69

11-06-13, 03:54

Yes Christie Won.

But what did the rest of the Tea Party do help the rest of your Republican Party?

How did they get to into the Republican party?

Were you Sleeping again?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_party

Just like Ran Paul, I copied most of true History, that repeated itself. Not like he did not knowing truth or not.

Tell him to go back to school.

Punter 127

11-06-13, 04:08

Piers Morgan is no different from Hannity or 90% of talk show hosts. They will say anything for ratings. They will sell their mothers. Every program, they will have certain sensational talking points, program for impact. Any guest that can make any headway towards thwarting that format will get interrupted repeatedly and asked questions that will not allow any context to be given. "Controversial" is the catchword for modern media, negativity is to be milked to the fullest.
Finally something we can agree on, kind of, the ratings part that is, but;.

”Piers Stefan Pughe-Morgan, known professionally as Piers Morgan, is a British journalist, television host and former television talent competition judge currently working in the United States.”
Piers Morgan needs to worry about his own country and not ours. From what I hear the British don't want him either, that's why he's in the USA.

So the question, does Obama lie more than any other politician? 5%, 50%?If I beat my wife less than you beat you wife, is it ok for me? Employees that lie to their employers or who lie on job applications should be fired.

Rev BS

11-06-13, 09:38

There are ways I could lessen the impact of this such as delaying SS benefits and not taking 401k or IRA money and only showing my pension as income. I would actually qualify for a subsidy, but I don't want to delay SS and I don't want a government handout to purchase something I don't want or need to begin

Perhaps you, Obama, and Dr. Carson could say a little prayer for me next Sunday at church.Step into the void. Be not afraid, for thou art with me.

As a recipient of Medicare, $100 is deducted from my SS payments every month. I still claim LA as my residence, but I am out of the country 11 months out of every year. In everyday routine health issues, the Health Coverage is totally useless for me as I cannot use it overseas unless for emergency care. In such cases, I can submit claims and be reimburse. As a I understand it, you have to prove you are on vacation, thus you cannot be out of the USA for more than 6 months (my brother's experience in London, bill was $40,000).

I do see my doctor whenever I'm in town, my medications are covered by my insurance. In general, I have been paying out of pocket for physician visits & lab tests in Bangkok. I also covered my own optical & dental expenses. No, no, no! Massages are not covered! Far from wealthy, I am lucky to be able to afford my health care & massage expenses so far. My latest tests showed that I am in good health, so I am one lucky SOB. Hope you are, too.

So step into the Promised Land. Rejoice! And be exceedingly glad, for great is thy reward.

Esten

11-06-13, 11:42

There are ways I could lessen the impact of this such as delaying SS benefits and not taking 401k or IRA money and only showing my pension as income. I would actually qualify for a subsidy, but I don't want to delay SS and I don't want a government handout to purchase something I don't want or need to begin with.

I worked all my life (first job at age twelve) and went through some pretty lean times but I never accepted a handout and I don't plan on taking one now. So thanks to you progressives and your nannyism I will be forced to engage in civil disobedience, I will refuse to buy insurance and make sure I don't have a tax refund coming so they can't collect the penalty. Before ObamaCare I had catastrophic coverage now I'm at the mercy of the gods. Perhaps you, Obama, and Dr. Carson could say a little prayer for me next Sunday at church.No insurance is your decision, you take your own risks. Don't ask others to pray for the decisions you make, especially when you're eligible for a tax credit but refuse out of pride. People with lower incomes accept paying lower tax rates, accept standard deductions and other provisions that lower their tax burden. The ACA tax credit should be no different.

Prior to the ACA, people were benefiting from a system that discriminated against other people with preexisting conditions. A system that changes that needs more revenue. If you think the hardship of some people paying more for insurance outweighs the hardship of those with preexisting conditions, you can try to change the law. Good luck.

Jackson

11-06-13, 19:27

...especially when you're eligible for a tax credit but refuse out of pride. People with lower incomes accept paying lower tax rates, accept standard deductions and other provisions that lower their tax burden. The ACA tax credit should be no different.Bullshit. Except for government employees, anyone that takes ANY money from the government should be ashamed of themselves for being a parasitic leech.

Stop preaching government dependency!

Prior to the ACA, people were benefiting from a system that discriminated against other people with preexisting conditions.More bullshit hyperbole.

Are you being "discriminated against" when a property insurance company declines to sell you fire insurance today to retroactively cover your house that burned down yesterday?

Are you being "discriminated against" when an auto insurance company declines to sell you an auto accident policy today to retroactively cover you for your accident last week?

Are you being "discriminated against" when a life insurance company declines to sell you a life insurance policy today to pay benefits for your loved one who died last month?

It's not discrimination, it's business, and by your rules they'd be out of business.

Thanks,

Jax

Tres3

11-07-13, 01:50

Remember when Nancy Pelosi said "We have to pass it, to find out what's in it."

A physician called into a radio show and said: "that's the definition of a stool sample."

That pretty well sums it up, and I believe we should have universal healthcare. Unfortunately, ACA is not the answer.

Tres3.

Rev BS

11-07-13, 03:20

Are you being "discriminated against" when an auto insurance company declines to sell you an auto accident policy today to retroactively cover you for your accident yesterday?JaxI get your point. But it has been known for people to have bought car insurance for years with good record & no claims, then have a couple of accidents / tickets within a short period, to have their insurance rates go up or outright cancelled.

Also, we are talking about health care, not cars or houses. Otherwise, Punter127 wouldn't feel so naked in the wilderness.

Dickhead

11-07-13, 04:07

So my state opted for its own exchange and like the feds' exchange, it has been down a lot and has a lot of bugs. Nevertheless, after four tries I was able to sign up for insurance (I've been retired for 18 months now so my COBRA expired last month). But, the system that was supposed to verify my SS# was not working so I have to do two things that are kind of impossible:

1) Fax a copy of my SS card, which who the fuck has one of those these days, and SSA won't send you one either.

2) Show evidence of my 2014 income, which how the fuck do I know what that will be? I mean, I do know, because it will be the precise amount designed to exploit the system to my own best advantage, but how do I prove I am going to sell X amount of stock at some why date during 2014 to produce Z amount of (federally tax-free) capital gain? They want a letter from your employer or some shit and if I had an employer it would piss him or her off to have to write some jive ass letter. They don't even tell you to whom it should be addressed. IRS? Insurance company? Obama? I wrote 'them a letter explaining the difference between my '12 and '13 income and telling them my best guess as to what income I would show for 2014 so we will see what happens. I faxed it today and left hard copy for my agent to mail because I figure the fax will get mis-filed somewhere.

I also had to do a couple of things that were easy enough but which were not supposed to be necessary because they had "integrated systems": fax a copy of my passport to prove my citizenship, and fax my 2012 tax return. Supposedly the exchange will compile all this and somehow notify the insurer, who will eventually allegedly contact me.

I got a Silver plan and chose a high co-pay for office visits and meds in exchange for a $1450 annual out-of-pocket max. The cost to me will be $219 a month. Is that cheap? I don't know but it won't do me a hell of a lot of good for at least four months since I won't be in the US. For ex-pats, almost any US insurance will be "catastrophic coverage" in that you have to go back to the US to get coverage and you'd only do that for something serious.

So for guys like Punter who are considering civil disobedience, I offer the following:

There are numerous exemptions from the penalty for not being insured. The one I like best is Hardship Exemption #3: "You received a shut-off notice from a utility company." So don't pay your garbage bill for a while, get the shut off notice, pay the garbage bill, lather, rinse, repeat. I also like Hardship Exemption #8, "You had medical expenses you couldn't pay in the last 24 months." Umm well yeah I had no insurance so I could not pay my medical bills so now I don't have to get insurance. Hmm.

One thing I could get pissed off about if I felt like it would be that now men and women pay the same rate, but all policies must cover maternity care, but no men require maternity care. So men are paying for women's maternity care, whether men have children or not. Oh well. I paid to educate other people's children my whole working life so now those who are still working can subsidize my health insurance premium, so that my premium can subsidize others' procreation costs.

I'll try to pass on most of my $373 monthly subsidy to some hookers to kind of even things out.

Punter 127

11-07-13, 13:54

No insurance is your decision, you take your own risks. Don't ask others to pray for the decisions you make, especially when you're eligible for a tax credit but refuse out of pride.Stop acting like a fucking moron, I would have to manipulate my income to qualify for any amount of subsidy. I'm not about to lower my standard of living in order to get a handout.

Obama said "If you like your healthcare plan, you'll be able to keep your healthcare plan, period." Well I liked my plan but Obama has reneged on his promise. And now the lying bastard wants to force me to buy a plan that cost nearly twice what I was paying, and it's a plan I don't want and it doesn't fit my needs.

I can buy health insurance outside the United States that will cover me anyplace in the world, the only restriction is it will only give me catastrophic coverage in the USA and only for 30 days at a time. Will Obamacare cover me outside the USA?

People with lower incomes accept paying lower tax rates, accept standard deductions and other provisions that lower their tax burden. The ACA tax credit should be no different.Wrong, the key words here are tax burden, deduction and tax rates are used to calculate my tax burden and we are talking about my tax dollars, how much tax I have to pay. With ObamaCare you are using other peoples money to subsidize the purchase of health care insurance, in other words you are taking money from one person / group to pay for the health insurance of another. It's apples and oranges.

Prior to the ACA, people were benefiting from a system that discriminated against other people with preexisting conditions. A system that changes that needs more revenue. If you think the hardship of some people paying more for insurance outweighs the hardship of those with preexisting conditions, you can try to change the law. Good luck.Now we have a system that discriminates against people over the age of 30, but I suppose government sponsored discrimination is OK. Do you think it's OK for a person to wait until they have a health problem to buy insurance, that's exactly what a lot of folks with preexisting conditions did or tried to do, and I suspect now many will pay the penalty until they become ill and then they will buy insurance because they can't be turned down.

The Obamacare nightmare is clearly a government overreach and I will wholeheartedly support those who try to change this unfair and discriminatory law.

So for guys like Punter who are considering civil disobedience, I offer the following:

There are numerous exemptions from the penalty for not being insured. The one I like best is Hardship Exemption #3: "You received a shut-off notice from a utility company." So don't pay your garbage bill for a while, get the shut off notice, pay the garbage bill, lather, rinse, repeat. I also like Hardship Exemption #8, "You had medical expenses you couldn't pay in the last 24 months." Umm well yeah I had no insurance so I could not pay my medical bills so now I don't have to get insurance. Hmm.
I think you know me well enough to know I'm not a hardship case and I'm never going to pretend to be something I'm not, and I will never not pay my debts.

Otherwise, Punter127 wouldn't feel so naked in the wilderness.Since I'm in Indonesia jungle is probably a better word than wilderness, but either way I don't feel naked, I feel violated.

The bottom line is I will not buy Obamacare insurance and if the government want to impose a penalty on me they will have to come and take it, I will not send it to them.

Rev BS

11-07-13, 14:10

Since I'm in Indonesia jungle is probably a better word than wilderness, but either way I don't feel naked, I feel violated..When you go down to Starbucks or McDonalds on the next trail past the waterfalls. You don't want to get violated by the local ladyboys from Kuta.

Dickhead

11-07-13, 14:55

I would have to manipulate my income to qualify for any amount of subsidy. I'm not about to lower my standard of living in order to get a handout.The key is to manipulate your income without lowering your standard of living. The Roth IRA is probably the best vehicle for that but annuities can work nicely as well. People ready for retirement before 65 can also follow a strategy of selling their least appreciated assets first. This is just taking advantage of the existing tax laws; it's tax avoidance and not tax evasion. It's not any more of a "handout" than the mortgage interest deduction, which shifts housing costs from one set of residents to another.

"Any one may so arrange his affairs that his taxes shall be as low as possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which will best pay the Treasury; there is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.

Judge Learned Hand, Helvering v. Gregory, 69 F .2 d 809,810-11 (2 d Cir. 1934).

Jackson

11-07-13, 15:33

...but I suppose government sponsored discrimination is OK.Yes, and they call it "Affirmative Action".

Member #4112

11-07-13, 18:30

It's been said many times, you can't cure stupid. I would add one more thing, you can't cure fiscal irresponsibility but it doesn't stop the Democrats / Progressives from trying.

No matter how stupid you are or fiscally irresponsible you are the Democrats want to "take care of you" but with other people's money.

It's not the government's job to take my money to pay for someone to lay on their ass and not work.

It's not the government's job to take my money to pay to feed someone else.

It's not the government's job to take my money to pay for some one else's healthcare.

You don't work you don't eat and you don't get a handout from Uncle Sugar.

If I CHOSE to donate for any of the above, that is one thing but to have the Government force me to pay for a bunch of lazy loafers is another. Perhaps we would not have so many "needy" if we did not make being needy so attractive! Shut down the Federal Plantation!

Leave these tasks to the local charities and / or states. Let the peoples of the several states decide just how generous they wish to be.

That's right WT69 Esten Black Shirt. Let'm suffer, let'm starve, let'm die.

You might just find a great majority of our "needy" might disappear if a little tough love were applied. "I'm doing this for your own good".

WorldTravel69

11-07-13, 20:28

The guys are going to start creating jobs soon.

Remember those ones that are getting big tax breaks to create jobs.

Ops, forgive me I must be on the wrong planet.

Member #4112

11-07-13, 20:49

Well maybe if you got the federal alphabet soup of agencies off everyone's back that might happen. As long as Obama keeps pushing the country left there is no incentive for business to expand.

I guarantee you paying people NOT TO WORK is not the answer.

Esten

11-08-13, 01:27

Almost every individual and business can and does reduce their tax burden via lower tax rates where eligible, deductions, credits, loopholes, etc. If doing this makes you a parasite, then there are a lot of parasites in the country. From the very poorest to the very richest. Some of you may know that in the Small Business Jobs Act, Obama raised the deduction for small business start up expenses from $5000 to $10000. Is the small business owner a parasite for taking advantage of this deduction? Is a middle class worker a parasite for taking a child tax credit? Do these tax laws promote "government dependency"?

No, the answer is we value small business and children enough to support them through the tax code. And so it is with healthcare. We value access to good healthcare enough that we will use the tax code to help make healthcare affordable to all Americans. Some people complain about subsidizing other people, like it's something new. We've been doing that for awhile, case in point Medicaid. These social programs are widely popular. Even in Texas, most people support providing financial assistance to uninsured and low income Americans to help them purchase healthcare coverage.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/static.texastribune.org/media/documents/uttt-201310-summary-3.pdf

It is the abysmal failure of the private sector to address unmet healthcare needs of millions of Americans with low incomes and preexisting conditions, that has led to government involvement. Just one of many areas where the government is a force for good. Jackson has one valid point, the insurance companies could be out of business if they had to cover everybody. That's why the only answer is for the government to step in and create a new set of rules. Even Republicans recognized this, when they promoted the concept of the individual mandate in the 80's, the 90's and the 2000's.

Punter 127

11-08-13, 02:21

When you go down to Starbucks or McDonalds on the next trail past the waterfalls. You don't want to get violated by the local ladyboys from Kuta.I don't support Starbucks for several reason one being I think they're very overpriced for a bad cup of coffee, but the main reason is the way they groveled to progressive gun control freaks a few months ago. McDonalds is equally disliked and always a last choice.

As for the ladyboys that you seem to love talking about,(?) the rumor is that some guy called "Reverend BS" gathered them all up and took them to Bangkok for free universal health care, but that's just a rumor, and I don't think he really got them all...LOL.

Punter 127

11-08-13, 05:19

Run Ben Run?

"Only once before, during the Civil War, were Americans as divided as they are today.

Can Dr. Ben Carson become President, will he run?

Will Dr. Carson be the one to end the rancor, the distrust, the divide that has been crassly exploited by the leftwing progressives who control the Democratic Party? Will he unite us as one great nation? Will democrats support him or will racism spring up from the roots of the democrat party again?

Here is a sample of what Dr. Carson is saying.

-Obamacare. Repeal it! Replace it with a free market health savings account.

-National Debt. Cut government spending by 10% each year, across the board, until the budget is balanced!

-Taxes. Make it flat and make sure that everyone has skin in the game. Everyone pays.

-Abortion. End it now! It is barbaric.

-Illegal Immigration. Listen to the American people, secure our borders. End it.

-Redistribution of Income. Stop it. It's un-American.

-Welfare. It not only encourages self-destructive behavior, it is a trap. Replace it with a truly.compassionate, free market approach that enables those on welfare to gain prosperity through employment and entrepreneurship.

-Judges. Appoint judges committed to the US Constitution.

-Political Correctness. It is dangerous. It hinders progress and divides our nation.

-Right to Keep & Bear Arms. It's a vital part of the our Bill of Rights! End of story!

-Democrats and Republicans. Both have been part of the problem. America first!

They have an online petition to draft Dr. Carson, does anybody think he can win?

http://www.runbenrun.org/petition_newt2012_2013_11_7

Daddy Rulz

11-08-13, 06:03

Punter 127

11-08-13, 07:31

Stop trying to read between the lines, and ignoring question marks.

Bubba why would the racist, lazy, socialist left leaning loonies keep this guy from running? I know he claims to be unaffiliated but that's clearly a conservative platform. Will the Republicans allow a black, unaffiliated, uncontrollable person to run for president? I'm not saying I agree nor disagree with any of his points (in fact I agree with some and disagree with others) but it's not the Democrats that would keep him from running.

Sorry if I missed your point.I wasn't trying to make a point per se, I was pointing out his stance on some issues and asking if he could win and who would support him. I was also exposing the fact that there is a movement to draft him as the Republican nominee. The Republicans would have no choice but to let him run if he wins the nomination.

I didn't say anything about anybody keeping him from running, nor did I say I supported him or agreed with him, Bubba!

Furthermore not all conservatives are Republicans, as matter of fact I believe there was once a creature called a conservative Democrat. (perhaps extinct now?) But if there are any conservatives left in the democrat party would racism stop them from supporting Dr. Carson? I assume you do know of the racist roots of the Democrat Party?

Daddy Rulz

11-08-13, 11:42

I wasn't trying to read between the lines Hoss, I was just asking a question. I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were putting this guy forward as somebody you liked yourself. Yeah I know that 200 years ago essentially the Democrats were the Republicans and vise versa.

Stop trying to read between the lines, and ignoring question marks.

I wasn't trying to make a point per se, I was pointing out his stance on some issues and asking if he could win and who would support him. I was also exposing the fact that there is a movement to draft him as the Republican nominee. The Republicans would have no choice but to let him run if he wins the nomination.

I didn't say anything about anybody keeping him from running, nor did I say I supported him or agreed with him, Bubba!

Furthermore not all conservatives are Republicans, as matter of fact I believe there was once a creature called a conservative Democrat. (perhaps extinct now?) But if there are any conservatives left in the democrat party would racism stop them from supporting Dr. Carson? I assume you do know of the racist roots of the Democrat Party?

Punter 127

11-08-13, 14:27

I wasn't trying to read between the lines Hoss, I was just asking a question. I must have misunderstood you. I thought you were putting this guy forward as somebody you liked yourself. I do like the guy, I like the fact that he's from outside the main stream. I don't agree with everything he says and I don't know that I would vote for him.

Yeah I know that 200 years ago essentially the Democrats were the Republicans and vise versa.Did they teach you that in government school?

Look I'm not affiliated with either party, I think they both suck, and I certainly don't like defending the Republican party, but the "Democratic Party, which was formally organized in 1831, became the pro-slavery party.

Would you have us believe that at some point all racist Democrats suddenly rushed into the Republican Party?

After all the Democratic Party was behind slavery, the KKK, and Jim Crow laws. It was also the party of George Wallace, Bull Connor, and how about Sen Robert Byrd, a former recruiter for the KKK. It has ALWAYS been a racist party. What did the Republican party ever do that can compare to that? You can run but you can't hide from history.

The Democratic Party is the party of the four S’s: slavery, secession, segregation and now socialism. Democrats have been running black communities for the past 50+ years, and the socialist policies of the Democrats have turned those communities into economic and social wastelands.

Democrats first used brutality and discriminatory laws to stop blacks from voting for Republicans. Democrats now use deception and government handouts to keep blacks from voting for Republicans. In his book, “Dreams From My Father,” President Barack Obama described what he and other Democrats do to poor blacks as “plantation politics.”There has been no switch of racism from one party to the other, that just BS!

Daddy do you want me to go on, do you really want to have this discussion?

WorldTravel69

11-08-13, 17:21

CNN's Benghazi report was wrong in part.

The solider that said he climbed the wall, killed a terrorist, etc. Lied. He was his beach house and could not get into city.

Jackson

11-08-13, 18:00

CNN's Benghazi report was wrong in part.

The solider that said he climbed the wall, killed a terrorist, etc. Lied. He was his beach house and could not get into city.I bet it was part of the Republican's "War on Women"!

Daddy Rulz

11-08-13, 18:22

There has been no switch of racism from one party to the other, that just BS!

Daddy do you want me to go on, do you really want to have this discussion?Honestly no, I only meant that remark in terms of progressive / conservative not specific platform issues or any idea of transferred racism. You know me hoss, I think they all fucking suck. I wasn't meaning to draw this into a debate, I really couldn't possibly care less. At the start I was just asking a question about that guy because I was curious. Apologies for any ruffled feathers bubba.

Rev BS

11-08-13, 21:15

Punter 127

11-08-13, 23:52

Honestly no, I only meant that remark in terms of progressive / conservative not specific platform issues or any idea of transferred racism. You know me hoss, I think they all fucking suck. I wasn't meaning to draw this into a debate, I really couldn't possibly care less. At the start I was just asking a question about that guy because I was curious. Apologies for any ruffled feathers bubba.Ok Daddy maybe I'm the one reading between the lines now, but the relentless efforts by Democrats to shift their racist past to the Republicans, buy saying: "the parties switched sides", is the reason I responded the way I did. I'm just tired of being labeled a racist buy members of a racist party. Sorry if I misinterpreted you.

WorldTravel69

11-09-13, 00:20

Maybe he should be more left, the stock market went UP, UP, UP.

All time HIGH!!

Well maybe if you got the federal alphabet soup of agencies off everyone's back that might happen. As long as Obama keeps pushing the country left there is no incentive for business to expand.

I guarantee you paying people NOT TO WORK is not the answer.

Daddy Rulz

11-09-13, 02:58

Ok Daddy maybe I'm the one reading between the lines now, but the relentless efforts by Democrats to shift their racist past to the Republicans, buy saying: "the parties switched sides", is the reason I responded the way I did. I'm just tired of being labeled a racist buy members of a racist party. Sorry if I misinterpreted you.I don't follow the thread or I would have been more specific. No blood no foul.

You doing ok? I'm seeing news about the typhoon.

Punter 127

11-09-13, 04:03

I don't follow the thread or I would have been more specific. No blood no foul.

You doing ok? I'm seeing news about the typhoon.I'm doing fine, we're in Indonesia so not a problem for us. The main storm missed Cebu City, I talked with my GF in Cebu and with Stowe (who rode out the storm) and they said we have no damage at the condo. We were very lucky had I been in Cebu before the storm I would have left, I avoid trouble whenever I can. Thanks for asking.

BTW you ready to go back and talk about Obamacare...LOL.

WorldTravel69

11-09-13, 04:35

I was there a few years ago, me and my buddies had to get out of Mindoro.

A Typhoon was kicking the water up, big time.

Now its 175 miles to 180 mph wind, does not happen Very Often.

Must be Climate Change!!

http://news.yahoo.com/strongest-typhoon-slams-philippines-214339268.html;_ylt=AwrSyCOd1n1SaQQAf8bQtDMD

Do you believe in the Tea Party? Or the Right Wing Republicans? They Think There is No Climate Change. Dumb! What Test Tube are they in?

P.S. What Health Care Do You have, Punter?
My Health Care Will Cover Me, does Yours?

I'm doing fine, we're in Indonesia so not a problem for us. The main storm missed Cebu City, I talked with my GF in Cebu and with Stowe (who rode out the storm) and they said we have no damage at the condo. We were very lucky had I been in Cebu before the storm I would have left, I avoid trouble whenever I can. Thanks for asking.

BTW you ready to go back and talk about Obamacare...LOL.

Daddy Rulz

11-09-13, 13:22

I'm doing fine, we're in Indonesia so not a problem for us. The main storm missed Cebu City, I talked with my GF in Cebu and with Stowe (who rode out the storm) and they said we have no damage at the condo. We were very lucky had I been in Cebu before the storm I would have left, I avoid trouble whenever I can. Thanks for asking.

BTW you ready to go back and talk about Obamacare...LOL.Gald everybody is ok. I didn't know that perv Stowe was over there.

Obamacare isn't part of my world, I'm a lifetime VA guy. (I made it with 18 days to spare when I enlisted).

Esten

11-09-13, 14:27

The guys are going to start creating jobs soon.

Remember those ones that are getting big tax breaks to create jobs.Maybe the Wall Street guys who made over a billion in free money on Twitter last week will create some jobs. Twitter priced 70 million shares at $26. The stock traded 145 million shares last week in the mid 40's, an automatic 70% gain for shareholders. Most of whom are wealthy investors and hedge funds who had access to the IPO. $1.3 BILLION in instant wealth creation for the wealthy. And they will pay a lower tax rate on this income than many middle class workers. Republicans told us over and over these tax breaks will lead to job creation by these wealthy "job creators". Imagine how many jobs could be created with $1.3 BILLION. I'm sure there will be an announcement soon.

Jackson

11-09-13, 16:33

...And they will pay a lower tax rate on this income than many middle class workers.Esten, I know you don't have a clue about how business actually functions, but buying an asset is not "income".

Republicans told us over and over these tax breaks will lead to job creation by these wealthy "job creators".What "tax breaks" are you talking about, and when did these Republicans allegedly make these claims?

Oh wait, I get it. You're talking about asset appreciation (aka "Capital Gains") being taxed at a different rate than income. I don't know how many decades ago that was first enacted, but you can't possibly be referring now to any statements made so long ago.

Imagine how many jobs could be created with $1.3 BILLION. I'm sure there will be an announcement soon.I'm sure the government could piss that money away on "make work" government jobs in no time.

Esten, this is like shooting fish in a barrel. Please try to up your game. There are very few LIVs (Low Information Voters) on this website, and they're all liberals.

Jax.

Jackson

11-09-13, 19:02

A concerned citizen named Heather Higgins started a twitter account named @mycancellation for people to post copies of their health insurance cancellation letters.

Within a short time she had more than 1,000 followers.

However, apparently some liberals took notice and enlisted thousands of their like-minded cohorts in a campaign to bombard Twitter with false reports claiming that they were being spammed by @mycancellation.

In response, Twitter quickly suspended the @mycancellation account.

It ceases to impress me how liberals are the first to scream "Freedom of Speech" unless you're saying something to which they do not agree, i.e. Ann Coulter, Raymond Kelly and David Petraeus all recently being shouted down while making public speeches.

Saul Alinsky (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=saul+alinsky) would be proud.

Jax

Twitter administrators are facing fire for freezing the account Mycancellation.com, which allowed Americans negatively affected by Obamacare’s rollout to post their stories.

More than 3.5 million people across the nation reportedly have seen their health insurers drop their plans. The Twitter account gave them an outlet to display photographs of their cancellation letters or their notices of rate increases, the Daily Mail reported.

But in a single week’s time, the account was frozen three times — the latest of which occurred Tuesday, absent any email notification, one site creator said, The Daily Mail reported.

Heather Higgins, the president of the Independent Women’s Forum — the group that led the social media campaign — said politics are likely at play.

“Since we haven’t abused any of Twitter’s (seemingly quite subjective) standards, either someone at Twitter objects to the real cost of these ‘liked insurance I wanted to keep’ cancellations being given a human face, or there is an organized campaign by Obamacare-reality-deniers to spam Twitter with false claims of abuse,” Ms. Higgins wrote at Ricochet.com.

Posters on Mycancellation.com have shown letters from 80-plus insurance companies, and most claim the cancellations or rate increases are due to Obamacare, the Daily Mail reported. One poster showed a letter that indicated a rate increase of 299 percent; another, of 315 percent.

HotRod11

11-09-13, 23:17

Today the US Navy christened the aircraft carrier Jerald Ford. I voted for him and I think he was one of the last real Republicans to serv. God I miss the old Republicans. I have read many different amounts quoted of just how much the most recent Republican government shut down cost taxpayers. Most amounts are near the 13 billion that our Navy will spend on the most technologically advanced nuclear carrier the world has ever seen. This ship will lead a squadron of ships that will protect the USA and my former political party just squandered away enough of our money to pay for it. I can not vote for anyone in my party of choice until they grow up. They act like children.

HR.

Daddy Rulz

11-10-13, 04:20

Today the US Navy christened the aircraft carrier Jerald Ford.It would be pretty funny though considering how Chevy Chase played him on Saturday Night Live it they actually did christen it with exactly this name.

Tres3

11-10-13, 13:39

Oh wait, I get it. You're talking about asset appreciation (aka "Capital Gains") being taxed at a different rate than income. Not only does Esten apparently not know what Capital Gains are, he also does not know the difference between Short Term and Long Term Capital Gains. The Twitter Traders, except the owners of hedge funds, made their profits as Short Term Capital Gains and had to pay ordinary tax rates on them. What "tax breaks" did they get? Ordinary income is ordinary income. It is taxed at ordinary income tax rates, whether it is salary or Short Term Capital Gains.

Shooting down Esten is as easy as shooting fish in a rain barrel.

Tres3.

Dickhead

11-10-13, 23:16

Esten

11-10-13, 23:30

The red herrings from Jax and Tres don't change the fact that Wall Street took in a giant bonanza on the Twitter IPO last week.

145 million shares traded in 2 days. The shares sold are actually a combination of pre-IPO shares priced at $26, and preferred convertible shares from earlier investors. So much of these "asset purchases" became booked profits, which will be reported as investment income. Tres is correct, I didn't mention short vs. Long term capital gains rates. Thanks for the reminder. The income will be taxed at either long or short term rates depending on the shares involved, and hedge fund managers will pay a lower tax rate as well (the "carried interest" loophole).

The profits could be greater than the $1.3 BILLION I estimated, since the preferred shares were bought at prices as low as $2.67. Yes the gain is not realized until the shares are sold, but there was a lot of selling last week. No doubt, the Wall Street shills will argue that the early investors "risked" their money, and created some jobs at Twitter. But they took care of themselves in the end, with the IPO. The others who got in at $26 got completely free money. A Wall Street-engineered bonanza no matter how you look at it.

Jax and Tres may be shooting fish in a barrel, but they're using a kid's water pistol.

T. Rowe, Morgan Stanley funds sitting on whopper Twitter gains
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/11/06/us-funds-twitter-ipo-idUSBRE9A517Z20131106

Jackson

11-11-13, 00:11

Tiny12

11-11-13, 01:35

The shares sold are actually a combination of pre-IPO shares priced at $26, and preferred convertible shares from earlier investors. I just looked at the prospectus. All proceeds from the IPO went to the company, none to earlier investors.

145 million shares traded in 2 days. Tres is correct, I didn't mention short vs. Long term capital gains rates. Thanks for the reminder. The income will be taxed at either long or short term rates depending on the shares involved, and hedge fund managers will pay a lower tax rate as well (the "carried interest" loophole).Everyone who sold so far and who pays USA capital gains tax has realized a short term gain. (Pension funds and foreigners for example won't have to pay capital gains tax). In the longer term, given that 80.5 million shares were sold to the public and 145 million shares traded on the first two days after the IPO, there won't be a lot of long term gains from the initial allotment of shares. While I agree that the "carried interest" loophole should not exist, the situation is similar - if the hedge fund doesn't hold the shares for a year, the manager doesn't get the long term gains rate on his carried interest. Hedge funds actually don't generate much in the way of carried interest taxed at lower capital gains rates - it's private equity that's mostly taking advantage of that.

The profits could be greater than the $1.3 BILLION I estimated, since the preferred shares were bought at prices as low as $2.67. Yes the gain is not realized until the shares are sold, but there was a lot of selling last week. No doubt, the Wall Street shills will argue that the early investors "risked" their money, and created some jobs at Twitter. But they took care of themselves in the end, with the IPO. The others who got in at $26 got completely free money. A Wall Street-engineered bonanza no matter how you look at it.Twitter thought the shares were worth less than $26 as they were prepared to price the IPO much lower. You're very possibly looking at a speculative bubble with Twitter. You buy stock in Chinese oil companies. Should that work the same? Once you buy the shares should they not be allowed to increase in price, so there will be no free money?

$1.3 BILLION in instant wealth creation for the wealthy. And they will pay a lower tax rate on this income than many middle class workers.Absolutely not true. The gains from the 145 million shares are all short term. If you define "wealthy" as someone in the highest tax bracket, he'll pay 43.4% to 56% income tax on the gain, depending on which state he lives in. Many of the beneficial owners of the shares bought in the IPO, including people with pensions and people who invest in mutual funds, are not wealthy. They'll pay tax at a much lower level, some at 0%.

Republicans told us over and over these tax breaks will lead to job creation by these wealthy "job creators". Imagine how many jobs could be created with $1.3 BILLION. I'm sure there will be an announcement soon.Since all the shares sold in the IPO were sold by the company, proceeds from the issuance of the stock will go to create jobs, among other purposes. As to sales by non-tax-exempt investors, a significant part of the realized gains will go to the federal government in the form of taxes. Most of what's left over will be put to a higher use. It will be re-invested, and create jobs, make capital investments, buy shares of businesses, provide deposits to banks so that others can create jobs and make capital investments, fund federal government debt to pay for your entitlements, etc.

So what's your point? Do you think we should do away with IPO's? There's no need for publicly owned companies or the stock market?

Esten

11-13-13, 02:18

Rev BS

11-13-13, 06:38

I can tell you exactly what the problem is.

The USA pays twice as much for medical care than the next closest country. Canada and Germany.

Do we receive better medical care?

Cuba which spends 25 cents a person for medical care has a longer life expectancy than the USA.

I am a doctor in the United States and I can tell you this is a farce. If you are overweight, a smoker and an incorrigible alcoholic, go to the end of the line. No liver transplants and no chemotherapy which may add another 2 weeks to your life and no liposuction.

Same with litigation. People who are overweight, smoked cigarettes like they are going out of style and destroyed their liver with alcohol should accept their fate. Don 't blaim pharmacuetical companies.

But try to do this. It is impossible. 60% of every persons lifetime time medical cost are incurred in the last 6 months of their lifes.

Criticize Obama as much as you like but Obama is not the problem. The problem is overweight, alcolholic smokers who want state of the art medical care for their destructive lifestyles.

Obama is not the villian here. The villian is our medical delivery system.

Obama may need to read 'econmics for dummies' but Obama is not the culprit for our entitlement programs which nobody wants to address.

Put another way, I will take Obama over Perry from Texas any day of the week. Perry and his religious nonsense is scary beyond belief.ObamaCare at this stage is not the final product. The start has been embarrassing. But there will be changes made, improvements created, and then the benefits of ACA will be there for everyone to benefit and enjoy, A year from now, you will start to hear the humming, and 3 years when Obama leaves office, the "Gang that couldn't Shoot Straight" will slump their asses in disbelief, not from ObamaCare succeeding, but the fact that they try to ***** away America's future by wasting 8 years of their energy to defeat Obama. Mindboggering, especially since most have done very well for themselves during this period.

But their stubborness knows no bounds. For them, he will always be Hussein, that Muslim Marxist from Kenya.

P.S. Ahh. Toyman. Where art Thou when we need ye most.

Tiny12

11-13-13, 12:46

Warren Buffett sees what Wall Street is getting away with. Is Buffett envious of Wall Street? Is he jealous? Of course not, that's absurd. There's a valid point behind the criticism, and any suggestion that such positions are based on jealousy is just more right wing drivel.

Any of you guys get those TWTR shares at $26 ? Nope, because firms like Goldman Sachs only distributed them to Wall Street friends and insiders. Pocketing $59 million in "fees" for distributing free money. Twitter is only one example of how Wall Street rakes in huge profits year after year.

Here's why we need to shed more light on Wall Street:
1. To understand how much money they leech off the US economy.
2. To understand how they mostly use this money to play in their rigged casino, rather than creating jobs.
3. To understand how much truth is in the Republican claim that they are "job creators".
4. To factor in #1-3 above so we make sound decisions about regulation, government revenues and spending, entitlements and balancing the budget.You're right, that's absurd. Buffet owns a big chunk of one of the largest financial companies in America. Of course he's not envious of Wall Street. He is Wall Street. I have already given examples to you of how Buffet's positions are self serving. And how the Democrat Party and old guard Republicans are responsible for special favors granted to Wall Street.

Sound decisions about regulation, government revenues and spending, entitlements, and balancing the budget will never be forthcoming from your party, in part because it's controlled by special interests (e.g. Wall Street). Obama would appear to be better-than-your-average-Democrat, about not pandering to the financial services industry. I'm not sure about that though. It's more likely he prefers to pander to trial lawyers and screw business in general. J. P. Morgan is an example.

You need to re-read Jackson's post about 3 times. Twitter is not an example of leeching. Neither you nor anyone else was hurt. Twitter raised money which it will use to expand its business. That will contribute to economic and job growth. Maybe they mispriced the IPO and left money on the table. Or maybe this is a game of musical chairs, the shares are worth less than $26, and whichever "Wall Street" players are left standing at the end will take a fall: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-13/twitter-seen-below-28-as-structured-note-investors-turn-bearish.html

If you want to argue that IPO shares should be allotted through an auction system to everyone, not to special friends of the underwriters, that might make sense. Trying to extrapolate this to condemn the tax system and capitalism is baseless though.

Black Shirt, good post from El Alamo, thanks for digging that up. I agree with a good part of it, especially about Obama needing to read Economics for Dummies. While there are things I don't like about Perry, I'd take him any day over Obama.

Punter 127

11-14-13, 01:11

Somebody kick the jukebox, it keeps playing little dreamer dream on, over and over and over.

ObamaCare at this stage is not the final product. The start has been embarrassing. But there will be changes made, improvements created, and then the benefits of ACA will be there for everyone to benefit and enjoy, A year from now, you will start to hear the humming,[snip]
Yes you should be embarrassed by the start, but how will these changes you speak of come about without new legislation? Even Democrats are starting to run from ObamaCare.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/13/Obama-Landrieu-Udall

What about the five plus million that have lost their health care insurance, what will they do while you get ObamaCare “humming”?

How many people will be canceled when the employer mandate kicks in?

You should be ashamed that you haven't expressed concern for the people who have been canceled, and what about the people that don't qualify for a subsidy but for whatever reason can't afford the increased premiums? Remember ObamaCare only looks at your AGI.

And what gives the government the right to dictate to people what coverage they have to purchase?

I think before it's all said and done ObamaCare will go the way of prohibition.

Rev BS

11-14-13, 04:06

Somebody kick the jukebox, it keeps playing little dreamer dream on, over and over and over.

Yes you should be embarrassed by the start, but how will these changes you speak of come about without new legislation? Even Democrats are starting to run from ObamaCare.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/13/Obama-Landrieu-Udall

What about the five plus million that have lost their health care insurance, what will they do while you get ObamaCare “humming”?

How many people will be canceled when the employer mandate kicks in?

You should be ashamed that you haven't expressed concern for the people who have been canceled, and what about the people that don't qualify for a subsidy but for whatever reason can't afford the increased premiums? Remember ObamaCare only looks at your AGI.

And what gives the government the right to dictate to people what coverage they have to purchase?

I think before it's all said and done ObamaCare will go the way of prohibition.Banging the tables with your fists, and stomping on your feet.

A friend of mine love to travel at 5 star level, but he actually hardly ever bother about leaving the comfort of the hotel. And if he did, he would go to the luxury malls that sold the same merchandise in Los Angeles. What he seem to get a kick from traveling was to go to the front desk / manager and complain about this matter, or that service. Or write a letter to an airline complaining about a bad landing, or the flight attendant forgot to give him a hot towel. Once on a cruise ship, he went on a 2 day campaign about a 75 cent overcharge on the internet fees.

I know, I know, it's not quite the same thing. But give it a rest, things will work out. And you might even be right. And then I will bestow upon you, the Supreme Order of the Righteous Knight of Beach Road.

P.S. All I have to do is Dream by the Everly Brothers, that is one sweet song. How did you guess it was one my karaoke favorites?

Punter 127

11-14-13, 05:15

Banging the tables with your fists, and stomping on your feet.

A friend of mine love to travel at 5 star level, but he actually hardly ever bother about leaving the comfort of the hotel. And if he did, he would go to the luxury malls that sold the same merchandise in Los Angeles. What he seem to get a kick from traveling was to go to the front desk / manager and complain about this matter, or that service. Or write a letter to an airline complaining about a bad landing, or the flight attendant forgot to give him a hot towel. Once on a cruise ship, he went on a 2 day campaign about a 75 cent overcharge on the internet fees.

I know, I know, it's not quite the same thing. But give it a rest, things will work out. And you might even be right. And then I will bestow upon you, the Supreme Order of the Righteous Knight of Beach Road.

P.S. All I have to do is Dream by the Everly Brothers, that is one sweet song. How did you guess it was one my karaoke favorites?Easy for you to say give it a rest, you still have insurance that somebody else pays for.

Rev BS

11-14-13, 11:40

Easy for you to say give it a rest, you still have insurance that somebody else pays for.Now that we are on the lifeboat, try not to move around too much and capsize the damn boat. I can't swim, can you?

Punter 127

11-14-13, 12:52

Now that we are on the lifeboat, try not to move around too much and capsize the damn boat. I can't swim, can you?Have you abandon ship already? LOL.

What we're seeing is failure of big government.

You bet I can swim like a fish, but I don't like to tread water.

"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."

As a country we need to adjust the sails and put government back in its place.

Rev BS

11-14-13, 18:59

"The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails."Just apply it to ACA, the Captain is already adjusting the sails. If I was the captain, the mutineers would be walking the plank!

Dccpa

11-14-13, 19:04

Somebody kick the jukebox, it keeps playing little dreamer dream on, over and over and over.

Yes you should be embarrassed by the start, but how will these changes you speak of come about without new legislation? Even Democrats are starting to run from ObamaCare.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/13/Obama-Landrieu-Udall

What about the five plus million that have lost their health care insurance, what will they do while you get ObamaCare “humming”?

How many people will be canceled when the employer mandate kicks in?

You should be ashamed that you haven't expressed concern for the people who have been canceled, and what about the people that don't qualify for a subsidy but for whatever reason can't afford the increased premiums? Remember ObamaCare only looks at your AGI.

And what gives the government the right to dictate to people what coverage they have to purchase?

I think before it's all said and done ObamaCare will go the way of prohibition.It is a hell of a lot more than 5 mm people. IBM, HOME DEPOT, GE, etc., etc., etc., have all cancelled their plans. My plan was cancelled. The person who sublets from me even had his Medicare supplement policy cancelled. I know of a lot of people who have had their insurance cancelled.

Today's announcement is worthless for most people. The insurance companies can offer the policies, but they don't have to. My idiotic governor chose the federal exchange, so what are the odds he will reinstate the state plan that was cancelled? I would love for Obummercare to be cancelled, but it isn't going to happen. It will end up as another Federal program that runs at a deficit in a country that can't pay for all the deficit programs we already have commited to.

Rev BS

11-14-13, 20:44

Change create fear, and the insurance industry knows this. They are making a killing, and they are not going to walk away without a big fight. They are not run by fools. They have the means & ability to shape policies and and influence legislation.

And who are we? We are like the chickens who goes into a frenzy when the corn is thrown into the yard. For all the cackling and posturing, most end up with stepping in shit and are happy with it.

WorldTravel69

11-14-13, 21:36

In other words, they only offered only sub-prime coverage, aka shitty coverage.

They should offer new coverage to them, that gives them the best of Health Care coverage.

Gee, why is that so to hard to do? Profits do not Allow that!

Dccpa:
Do the Math, it will be Cheaper for the people, than Paul Ryan's Plan.
Where is The Republican Health Care Plan That Will Work for all of Us. Not Just Benefit The Insurance Companies?
They Do Not Have One, why because the party is Split into many fractions. The reason the Tea Party! The know nothing about Politics.
Come on Dump Them.

It is a hell of a lot more than 5 mm people. IBM, HOME DEPOT, GE, etc., etc., etc., have all cancelled their plans. My plan was cancelled. The person who sublets from me even had his Medicare supplement policy cancelled. I know of a lot of people who have had their insurance cancelled.

Today's announcement is worthless for most people. The insurance companies can offer the policies, but they don't have to. My idiotic governor chose the federal exchange, so what are the odds he will reinstate the state plan that was cancelled? I would love for Obummercare to be cancelled, but it isn't going to happen. It will end up as another Federal program that runs at a deficit in a country that can't pay for all the deficit programs we already have commited to.

Esten

11-15-13, 02:10

IBM only cancelled it's plan for some retirees. It was replaced by an alternative. There is no evidence this move was due to ACA itself and would not have happened otherwise. From some posts, you'd think the ACA caused employers to cancel all healthcare insurance and leave people out in the cold. That's not the real story.

However, the implementation of ACA provides a convenient excuse for some employers to decrease their healthcare costs, and bank more profits which can be used to support increased dividend payments. Don't think for a second that Wall Street isn't behind the decisions of publically traded companies like IBM and HD to increase profits at the expense of workers.

Tiny I commend you for giving one of the more balanced perspectives from the right. However, you mis-stated one of my points. An IPO is not leeching. The leeching is the billions and billions of interest and dividend payments that individuals and corporations pay to Wall Street every year. In turn, Wall Street mostly uses these funds to play in their rigged casino, further multiplying their profits, the Twitter IPO being one example.

WorldTravel69

11-15-13, 03:44

It did not meet the requirement of a good plan!

"In other words, they were only offered only sub-prime coverage, aka shitty coverage.

They should offer new coverage to them, that would give them the best of Health Care coverage.

Gee, why is that so to hard to do? Because Profits do not Allow that!"

"Dccpa:
Do the Math, it will be Cheaper for the people, than Paul Ryan's Plan.
Where is The Republican Health Care Plan That Will Work for all of Us. Not Just Benefit The Insurance Companies?
They Do Not Have One, why because the party is Split into many fractions. The reason the Tea Party! The know nothing about Politics Party.
Come on Dump Them."

In other words, they only offered only sub-prime coverage, aka shitty coverage.

They should offer new coverage to them, that gives them the best of Health Care coverage.

Gee, why is that so to hard to do? Profits do not Allow that!

Dccpa:
Do the Math, it will be Cheaper for the people, than Paul Ryan's Plan.
Where is The Republican Health Care Plan That Will Work for all of Us. Not Just Benefit The Insurance Companies?
They Do Not Have One, why because the party is Split into many fractions. The reason the Tea Party! The know nothing about Politics.
Come on Dump Them.

PS : Jackson: Sorry I Edited This So Many Times.

Punter 127

11-15-13, 08:34

Just apply it to ACA, the Captain is already adjusting the sails. If I was the captain, the mutineers would be walking the plank!There is little doubt in my mind as to what you personally would do. As for the "Captains" adjustment of the sails, I find it reminiscent of the adjustments made by the Captain of the Titanic, unfortunately also like the Titanic it's to little and to late. To complicate matters even more what the "Captain" just did has a little Constitution problem, you do remember that dusty old thing called the Constitution don't you? Well "The Take Care Clause of the Constitution absolutely forbids any president from doing exactly what Obama did Thursday.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/14/Obama-s-Fix-is-Unconstitutional

Rev BS

11-15-13, 09:26

There is little doubt in my mind as to what you personally would do. As for the "Captains" adjustment of the sails, I find it reminiscent of the adjustments made by the Captain of the Titanic, unfortunately also like the Titanic it's to little and to late. To complicate matters even more what the "Captain" just did has a little Constitution problem, you do remember that dusty old thing called the Constitution don't you? Well "The Take Care Clause of the Constitution absolutely forbids any president from doing exactly what Obama did Thursday.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/14/Obama-s-Fix-is-UnconstitutionalYes, the great and illustrious Howard Dean, we shall see. But it was never about health care with you, anyway.

Punter 127

11-15-13, 09:41

There's a lot of things you don't know!
Yes, the great and illustrious Howard Dean, we shall see. But it was never about health care with you, anyway.Funny thing is it was never about health care with you. It's power, control, an agenda, and nannyism.

Rev BS

11-15-13, 11:38

There's a lot of things you don't know!Funny thing is it was never about health care with you. It's power, control, an agenda, and nannyism.I will wait till tomorrow to look in the mirror. For you, I would advise otherwise, the mirror might crack. You are priceless.

Punter 127

11-15-13, 12:06

I will wait till tomorrow to look in the mirror. For you, I would advise otherwise, the mirror might crack.Thanks, when you look in that mirror tomorrow remind yourself that you still have insurance and I don't, see how pretty you are then.

Tiny12

11-15-13, 23:14

Rev BS

11-15-13, 23:49

This insurance policy may be worth a look if, like me, you're losing yours at the end of the year. I just signed up for it:

Blue Choice Gold PPO 001 offered by Blue Cross Blue Shield.

The policy provides out of network and international coverage. Their network is very large and includes first class hospitals, for example, Hospital Aleman in Buenos Aires. And Johns Hopkins, M D Anderson, etc.Now that you found an alternative health plan, how does it compare with your old plan, and it's impact on you. Come on, do us a public service. People are hungry for 1st hand experience with ACA.

Any Bangkok hospitals on the list? Yeah, I know, do your own legwork, but since you are here, er, do us a favor.

Tiny12

11-16-13, 00:00

Now that you found an alternative health plan, how does it compare with your old plan, and it's impact on you. Come on, do us a public service. People are hungry for 1st hand experience with ACA.

Any Bangkok hospitals on the list? Yeah, I know, do your own legwork, but since you are here, er, do us a favor.Bumrungrad is on the list. Have a look for others: https://www.bluecardworldwide.com/index.cfm?.

I think I will like it better than my old plan. Actually my old plan, offered by a professional organization, threw me in with a bunch of sickies (I'm relatively fit) but with no discount so it wasn't the best deal available. However I was too lazy to shop around.

The ACA is not relevant - I could have purchased the Blue Cross policy years ago if I'd known about it.

As to my personal situation, the ACA is a big bummer. The ACA tax when combined with Obama's other tax rate increases have caused me to decide to work less, which means my income is lower. Ironically this means I will pay less tax. Thank you Mr. Obama!

Tres3

11-16-13, 01:48

The ACA tax when combined with Obama's other tax rate increases have caused me to decide to work less, which means my income is lower. Ironically this means I will pay less tax. Thank you Mr. Obama!Until the marginal tax rate that one pays reaches 100%, work still puts money in your pocket. Granted less work means less tax, but it also means less money left over to spend on chicas. Something tells me there is an ulterior motive behind your "working less", and you are just trying to blame ACA and Obama.

Tres3.

Tiny12

11-16-13, 02:13

Until the marginal tax rate that one pays reaches 100%, work still puts money in your pocket. Granted less work means less tax, but it also means less money left over to spend on chicas. Something tells me there is an ulterior motive behind your "working less", and you are just trying to blame ACA and Obama.

Tres3.There are secondary reasons but no ulterior motive. The primary reason is that I'm fed up and am not going to bust my ass when government is taking 50% of my marginal income. That's the tipping point. One secondary reason is that administrative work, which doesn't make any money, has ballooned in recent years, leaving less time to generate income. A good part of the reason for that is compliance with government regulations. It takes a month or two every year to put together the info to report my taxable income, and they keep coming up with more stupid forms which require additional record keeping and reporting. I don't need or want more money to spend on fucking chicas. I would like more time. Maybe that's a secondary reason too.

WorldTravel69

11-16-13, 03:24

Leave the facking Country.

P.S., Oh Yes, another gas line Blew Up in THE GREAT OF STATE OF TEXASS.

There are secondary reasons but no ulterior motive. The primary reason is that I'm fed up and am not going to bust my ass when government is taking 50% of my marginal income. That's the tipping point. One secondary reason is that administrative work, which doesn't make any money, has ballooned in recent years, leaving less time to generate income. A good part of the reason for that is compliance with government regulations. It takes a month or two every year to put together the info to report my taxable income, and they keep coming up with more stupid forms which require additional record keeping and reporting. I don't need or want more money to spend on fucking chicas. I would like more time. Maybe that's a secondary reason too.

WorldTravel69

11-16-13, 03:36

Has been stealing my retirement for years, now I have been switched to Blue Shield.

Like I said in the earlier posts, Pick The One that the Republicans don't Want You to Use!

Think about Your Heath Care. Not what the right wingers want, Just what You need and can afford!

Use Your Own Mind, not these jackasses!

Bumrungrad is on the list. Have a look for others: https://www.bluecardworldwide.com/index.cfm?.

I think I will like it better than my old plan. Actually my old plan, offered by a professional organization, threw me in with a bunch of sickies (I'm relatively fit) but with no discount so it wasn't the best deal available. However I was too lazy to shop around.

The ACA is not relevant - I could have purchased the Blue Cross policy years ago if I'd known about it.

As to my personal situation, the ACA is a big bummer. The ACA tax when combined with Obama's other tax rate increases have caused me to decide to work less, which means my income is lower. Ironically this means I will pay less tax. Thank you Mr. Obama!

Tiny12

11-16-13, 16:50

Use Your Own Mind, not these jackasses!

Leave the facking Country.

P.S., Oh Yes, another gas line Blew Up in THE GREAT OF STATE OF TEXASS.You, Esten and President Obama should be more gracious. You won. You've got what you want, a cradle-to-grave nanny state and a sharply progressive income tax.

The USA occupied a position between dynamic economies like Hong Kong and Singapore and "also rans" like France and Italy. The country made its choice and is now pursuing the Western European model. Someday the Federal Reserve will no longer be able to prime the pump, and countries like China will stop financing our profligacy. And the USA will be condemned to a future of stagnant economic growth and low employment.

Tiny12

11-16-13, 19:25

Bumrungrad is on the list. Have a look for others: https://www.bluecardworldwide.com/index.cfm?.

Black Shirt, I noticed you can't get into the web site without the first three letters of a policy, sorry about that. Try "GPS" if you want to check it out.

Tres3

11-16-13, 20:37

There are secondary reasons but no ulterior motive. The primary reason is that I'm fed up and am not going to bust my ass when government is taking 50% of my marginal income. That's the tipping point. One secondary reason is that administrative work, which doesn't make any money, has ballooned in recent years, leaving less time to generate income. A good part of the reason for that is compliance with government regulations. It takes a month or two every year to put together the info to report my taxable income, and they keep coming up with more stupid forms which require additional record keeping and reporting. I don't need or want more money to spend on fucking chicas. I would like more time. Maybe that's a secondary reason too.Why do you not admit it? You want to work less or not at all, and taxes have little or nothing to do with it. At least you are not a slug who does not want to work or pay taxes, and just suck on Uncle Sugar's tit. I worked for over forty years and retired. I get by with less, and my home is paid for, but no longer have to get up early every morning. I am happy not working, but I still pay local, state, and federal taxes. Although I find some government expenditures objectionable and wasteful, I do not mind paying taxes. That is the law, and I enjoy highways, roads, bridges, sewers, running water, airplanes that are safe, harbors that accommodate trade, a military that can fight and defend me in my elder years, etc., etc. Etc.

Tres3.

Tiny12

11-16-13, 21:09

Tres, Good job of psychoanalyzing someone you don't know. Leftist academic economists who think government should operate like the mafia or a for-profit corporation, that is by maximizing revenues, think about a 70% tax rate is the tipping point. That is, at 70% people work so much less that the government will receive less revenues from taxes. Well, for me the tipping point is under 50%. I happily pay tax to my state and local governments for highways, roads, bridges, sewers, and running water, and believe I receive good value for those taxes. On the other hand, my payments to the federal government will exceed what I'll get back in return by double digit multiples. Furthermore, a good % of federal government expenditures are wasted, spent inefficiently, or spent for things that hurt people instead of helping them.

Jackson

11-16-13, 21:42

Someday the Federal Reserve will no longer be able to prime the pump, and countries like China will stop financing our profligacy. And the USA will be condemned to a future of stagnant economic growth and low employment.And it will still be George Bush's fault!

Tres3

11-17-13, 02:14

On the other hand, my payments to the federal government will exceed what I'll get back in return by double digit multiples. Furthermore, a good % of federal government expenditures are wasted, spent inefficiently, or spent for things that hurt people instead of helping them.You are correct when you say that I do not know you, and I do not want to know you. From 1954 to 1969 the marginal federal rate was 90%, and yet the USA prospered. I assume that you worked some of that time. Before stating that all federal taxes go for federal expenditures, you need to look at the percentage of state and local expenditures that come from the federal government. There is waste and inefficiency at all levels, but the law says that we must pay taxes. We are one of the few countries with large scale voluntary compliance with the tax laws. No one gets back everything he paid in, some get more and some get less. As Ronald Reagan famously said, "No team ever went to the World Series with a perfect record." I believe we are still a system where the rule of law prevails most of the time. With regard to getting back what you pay, I assume that you still pay property (school) taxes. When did you or your children finish school? Did your property (school) taxes go down when you no longer had anyone in school?

You must be either very wealthy, not very smart, or lazy in you elder years. I made in excess of six figures for over twenty years, lived in zero state income tax states, and never paid the federal government more than twenty five per cent of my total income in taxes. That includes social security and medicare. I do not consider myself a rocket scientist or wealthy.

Tres3.

Tiny12

11-17-13, 03:27

From 1954 to 1969 the marginal federal rate was 90%, and yet the USA prospered. I assume that you worked some of that time. Probably, but I don't remember. I was in kindergarten during part of that period. The thing about the 90% rate that others have already pointed out here is that very few paid it. Most Americans paid taxes at much lower rates, which accounts in part for the dynamism of the USA economy during this period. Both federal government revenues and expenditures were relatively low, in the range of 15% to 18% of GDP, and the feds weren't spending a lot more than they were taking in.

...the law says that we must pay taxes. We are one of the few countries with large scale voluntary compliance with the tax laws....I made in excess of six figures for over twenty years, lived in zero state income tax states, and never paid the federal government more than twenty five per cent of my total income in taxes. That includes social security and medicare. I do not consider myself a rocket scientist or wealthy.

Tres3.I pay my taxes and don't cheat. There are no special tax breaks that I can take advantage of, except long term capital gains. I believe the majority of wealthy Democrats don't care about tax rates because they (a) cheat on their taxes or (b) take advantage of special write-offs or government subsidies or (c) buy off politicians and government officials or (d) are trust fund mutants who were handed life on a silver platter by their daddies and have no appreciation of what it takes to make it in the real world.

I'm honestly not intending to imply you fit in any of these categories btw. But who cares what the rates are if you have special loopholes (John and Teresa Heinz Kerry). Or you intentionally don't report all your income (Timothy Geithner and Charles Rangel). Or you just say to hell with it and don't pay your taxes (36 members of Obama's well paid executive staff). Well, at least you have to give credit to Obama for having balls, putting someone in charge of the IRS (Geithner) who intentionally underpaid his taxes.

WorldTravel69

11-18-13, 04:46

The latest big news it is that the republicans say that Obama is the worst President in history!

They say that what Bush did in Iraq was not a Lie.

Obama did say he was wrong. He apologized about the Health Care problem.

But Where Is he New Health Care Package that the Republicans want?

Bill Maher said what Bush said about WMDs in Iraq, was just A Little White Lie and that is Okay!

But, Obama Lies are not White Lies.

And it will still be George Bush's fault!Bizarre?

Rev BS

11-18-13, 07:45

From the Washington Post, Nov. 18,2013.(selected paragraphs).

"The ACA has been successful in our states (Connecticut, Kentucky, Washington) because our political & community leaders grasped the importance of expanding health care coverage and have avoided the temptation to use health care reform as political football.

In Kentucky, two independent studies showed that the Bluegrass state couldn't afford to not to expand Medicaid. Expansion offered hugh savings in the state budget and is expected to create 17,000 jobs."

So what gives? Why are some states seeing ACA as a beneficial & successful legislation, whilst others look at it like a plague? Just because your Daddy tell you so?

Let the ruckus, and bellyaching go on for a while. Goodness & Truth will prevail. When the voting public see how the stubborn Republican governors have screwed them, you might see a few meltdowns. 15 lashes of the cane for the con men.

Tiny12 already has benefited indirectly from his cancelled insurance. Who's next? And the saga of Punter127 continues?

Punter 127

11-18-13, 10:04

"We All Knew' Obama Was Lying"

On Sunday, appearing on ABC’s This Week with fill-in host Martha Raddatz, Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) admitted that Democrats knew full well that Americans would be booted from their health insurance plans as an effect of Obamacare implementation.

When asked whether Democrats were misled by President Obama about whether Americans would be able to keep their plans in the individual insurance market, Gillibrand answered: “He should’ve just been specific. No, we all knew.”

She added that the whole point of Obamacare was to “covering things people need, like preventive care, birth control, pregnancy.” The redistributive nature of Obamacare, Gillibrand stated, was the point of the program; anyone claiming ignorance, therefore, is not telling the truth.I guess Democrats don't care if Obama lied as long as it serves the agenda!

Tres3

11-18-13, 11:12

Bizarre?Your post is Bizarre. Do you know what you are attempting to say?

Tres3.

Tres3

11-18-13, 11:27

Probably, but I don't remember. I was in kindergarten during part of that period. The thing about the 90% rate that others have already pointed out here is that very few paid it. Most Americans paid taxes at much lower rates, which accounts in part for the dynamism of the USA economy during this period. Both federal government revenues and expenditures were relatively low, in the range of 15% to 18% of GDP, and the feds weren't spending a lot more than they were taking in.

I pay my taxes and don't cheat. There are no special tax breaks that I can take advantage of, except long term capital gains. I believe the majority of wealthy Democrats don't care about tax rates because they (a) cheat on their taxes or (b) take advantage of special write-offs or government subsidies or (c) buy off politicians and government officials or (d) are trust fund mutants who were handed life on a silver platter by their daddies and have no appreciation of what it takes to make it in the real world.

I'm honestly not intending to imply you fit in any of these categories btw. But who cares what the rates are if you have special loopholes (John and Teresa Heinz Kerry). Or you intentionally don't report all your income (Timothy Geithner and Charles Rangel). Or you just say to hell with it and don't pay your taxes (36 members of Obama's well paid executive staff). Well, at least you have to give credit to Obama for having balls, putting someone in charge of the IRS (Geithner) who intentionally underpaid his taxes.Be careful about your history. The top marginal federal income tax rate did not go below 70% until 1982. In 1987 the top marginal rate went below 50% for the first time since 1932. The top marginal rate has not been above 39.6% since 1987.

Tres3.

WorldTravel69

11-18-13, 14:07

The message was about being Black or White.

Your post is Bizarre. Do you know what you are attempting to say?

Tres3.

Tiny12

11-18-13, 14:37

Be careful about your history. The top marginal federal income tax rate did not go below 70% until 1982. In 1987 the top marginal rate went below 50% for the first time since 1932. The top marginal rate has not been above 39.6% since 1987.

Tres3.The top marginal federal rate on income since January 1, 2013 is 43.4%. The top marginal federal + state + local income tax rate in California is around 56%, in New York City around 55%. And, as you know, there are also sales and property taxes, that both individuals and businesses must pay.

Fortunately the Republicans prevented tax rates from going up on everyone this year, so that total federal revenues as % of GDP are still reasonable by historical standards. Unfortunately, Tea Party Republicans were not able to prevent the federal government from continuing to spend like there's no tomorrow. So, despite the sequester, we continue to pile up massive amounts of debt for future generations to pay. Esten's and possibly your idea that this can be solved by increasing taxes on the rich is a pipe-dream. Even if some haven't already changed their behavior in response to higher rates, they don't have enough money to come close to solving the problem.

Punter 127

11-18-13, 14:48

The message was about being Black or White.So you are race baiting?

Punter 127

11-18-13, 14:56

With 39 Dems behind it, House passes Obamacare fix

From the Washington Post, Nov. 18,2013.(selected paragraphs).

"The ACA has been successful in our states (Connecticut, Kentucky, Washington) because our political & community leaders grasped the importance of expanding health care coverage and have avoided the temptation to use health care reform as political football.

In Kentucky, two independent studies showed that the Bluegrass state couldn't afford to not to expand Medicaid. Expansion offered hugh savings in the state budget and is expected to create 17,000 jobs."
Woo-hoo Obamacare is successful in three state out of 50, baby we're cookin with gas now, it just don't get much better than this!

Wait until the employer mandates kick in, possibly 50-90 million more cancellations.

So what gives? Why are some states seeing ACA as a beneficial & successful legislation, whilst others look at it like a plague? Just because your Daddy tell you so?
I didn't hear Daddy say anything, why you dragging him in this?

Let the ruckus, and bellyaching go on for a while. Goodness & Truth will prevail. When the voting public see how the stubborn Republican governors have screwed them, you might see a few meltdowns. 15 lashes of the cane for the con men. Sorry this is not Singapore, no caning allowed. You know the forum was quite until you and WT poured gas on the fire.

, But Where Is he New Health Care Package that the Republicans want?[snip]
“Thirty-nine House Democrats on Friday broke ranks to support a Republican bill that would allow health insurers to continue selling plans canceled under Obamacare through 2014, the first test of support on Capitol Hill since the law’s disastrous rollout.

The House voted, 261-157, to pass the bill by Rep. Fred Upton (R-Mich.). It’s a significant show of disloyalty to the White House.” Obama says he will veto the bill, but most of those 39 are up for reelection next year, do you think they see the handwriting on the wall? Oh and remember these guys are part of the party that let the government be shut down rather than negotiate on ObamaCare. Now they've got their tails tucked between their legs and their running for the door.

Tiny12 already has benefited indirectly from his cancelled insurance. Who's next? And the saga of Punter127 continues?
What a piece of work you are, you got the guys insurance cancelled so he went outside ObamaCare and found another policy, and now you want credit for his good luck. [Shaking my head]

Btw BS I know it's hard for a nanny like you to understand, but you needn't concern yourself with the Punter 127 saga, my decisions have been made and as always I will take care of myself!

Tiny12

11-18-13, 14:58

WT69, So you admit that Obama lied?

WorldTravel69

11-18-13, 18:41

I admit to nothing. Just like the Republicans.

It was a Bill Maher joke that I said wrong.

WT69, So you admit that Obama lied?

Tres3

11-18-13, 19:15

The top marginal federal rate on income since January 1, 2013 is 43.4%. The top marginal federal + state + local income tax rate in California is around 56%, in New York City around 55%. And, as you know, there are also sales and property taxes, that both individuals and businesses must pay.

Fortunately the Republicans prevented tax rates from going up on everyone this year, so that total federal revenues as % of GDP are still reasonable by historical standards. Unfortunately, Tea Party Republicans were not able to prevent the federal government from continuing to spend like there's no tomorrow. So, despite the sequester, we continue to pile up massive amounts of debt for future generations to pay. Esten's and possibly your idea that this can be solved by increasing taxes on the rich is a pipe-dream. Even if some haven't already changed their behavior in response to higher rates, they don't have enough money to come close to solving the problem.You should do your homework before you post. According to the IRS, the top marginal rate for 2013 is 39.6% NOT the 43.4% stated in your post. The difference between what you say is a marginal rate of 43.4% and 39.6% is a surcharge that does not kick in until a single taxpayer earns more than $200,000 or a married taxpayer earns more than $250,000. We pay sales and property taxes no matter which party is in charge. You also conveniently neglect to mention that state and local income taxes as well as property taxes are deductible from federal income taxes, as are a host of other expenditures. If you do the arithmetic, it still does not add up to your original reason for working less. If you make more than the surcharge limits, you make a lot of money; however I still think you are lazy and no longer want to work. I do not care for Obama, but I do not blame him for everything that is wrong. I agree that Obama is inept, but so are a lot of other politicians, and there is plenty of blame for everyone.

Tres3.

Tiny12

11-18-13, 20:00

You should do your homework before you post. According to the IRS, the top marginal rate for 2013 is 39.6% NOT the 43.4% stated in your post. The difference between what you say is a marginal rate of 43.4% and 39.6% is a surcharge that does not kick in until a single taxpayer earns more than $200,000 or a married taxpayer earns more than $250,000. We pay sales and property taxes no matter which party is in charge. You also conveniently neglect to mention that state and local income taxes as well as property taxes are deductible from federal income taxes, as are a host of other expenditures. If you do the arithmetic, it still does not add up to your original reason for working less. If you make more than the surcharge limits, you make a lot of money; however I still think you are lazy and no longer want to work. I do not care for Obama, but I do not blame him for everything that is wrong. I agree that Obama is inept, but so are a lot of other politicians, and there is plenty of blame for everyone.

Tres3.Tres, You should do your homework before you post. The maximum marginal rate is 43.4%, period. You can call it a surcharge if you wish. That doesn't alter the fact that if an individual, directly or through an LLC, makes $10 million in a year, he or she is going to pay 43.4% tax to the federal government on every dollar of ordinary income over $402,200. I did take into account the deduction for state and local income tax in what I quoted for California and New York rates. What you don't take into account is the effect of the Pease Amendment, which severely limits the amount of deductions on Schedule A for many upper income taxpayers. And yes, I agree, a host of other expenditures may be deductible if you are willing to lie and say personal expenditures are attributable to your business. Or if you're willing to do things that shouldn't make business sense but reduce your tax bill. I guess I am lazy as I now only work about 40 hours a week, a good part of which is keeping up with federal government bull shit, instead of around 70 hours a week in 2012. I do strongly agree with the last sentence of your post.

P.S. You conveniently neglect to mention that when you add sales taxes and property taxes to income taxes, the total taxes paid by many unincorporated businesses (and the individuals who own them) are much higher than the net profit. And the owners typically re-invest more of that profit in the business than they put in their pockets. When the owner dies, the maximum marginal federal death tax on what he owned is 40%. In other words, the majority of the "spoils" go to government.

Rev BS

11-18-13, 21:25

I admit to nothing. Just like the Republicans.Well played, WT69! All of a sudden, who is being self-righteous?

TejanoLibre

11-18-13, 23:00

We should all learn to get along better since WE are all going to be neighbors!

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Revelation 21:8).

Probably most "good people" would agree that "murderers, and whoremongers" deserve hell—but "the fearful, and unbelieving, . . . And all liars"? Would that not include just about everyone?

This shit sounds serious!

TL.

Murderers and whoremongers!

Rev BS

11-19-13, 01:54

Woo-hoo Obamacare is successful in three state out of 50, baby we're cookin with gas now, it just don't get much better than this! So arrogant. If 3 states can show that they can be successful, the other 47 states should be asking themselves how come they are shooting their own feet. Stubborn is stubborn. Anything with Obama's name, yeah, got to be crap, right?

Punter 127

11-19-13, 05:02

So arrogant.I assume that's what you say when you look in that famous magic mirror of yours.

If 3 states can show that they can be successful, the other 47 states should be asking themselves how come they are shooting their own feet.First of all I'm not convinced they are successful, other than for medicaid, but if and that's a big if they are why can't your all knowing big government do the same thing nationwide? Are you making a case for states rights?

Stubborn is stubborn.More words of wisdom from your magic mirror?

Anything with Obama's name, yeah, got to be crap, right?Am I required to like him? I can't remember one time that you ever spoke out against anything with Obama's name on it, can you?

Nope, not all would be crap, his resignation would be considered a godsent.

Tres3

11-19-13, 16:31

Tres, You should do your homework before you post. The maximum marginal rate is 43.4%, period. You can call it a surcharge if you wish. That doesn't alter the fact that if an individual, directly or through an LLC, makes $10 million in a year, he or she is going to pay 43.4% tax to the federal government on every dollar of ordinary income over $402,200. I did take into account the deduction for state and local income tax in what I quoted for California and New York rates. What you don't take into account is the effect of the Pease Amendment, which severely limits the amount of deductions on Schedule A for many upper income taxpayers. And yes, I agree, a host of other expenditures may be deductible if you are willing to lie and say personal expenditures are attributable to your business. Or if you're willing to do things that shouldn't make business sense but reduce your tax bill. I guess I am lazy as I now only work about 40 hours a week, a good part of which is keeping up with federal government bull shit, instead of around 70 hours a week in 2012. I do strongly agree with the last sentence of your post.

P.S. You conveniently neglect to mention that when you add sales taxes and property taxes to income taxes, the total taxes paid by many unincorporated businesses (and the individuals who own them) are much higher than the net profit. And the owners typically re-invest more of that profit in the business than they put in their pockets. When the owner dies, the maximum marginal federal death tax on what he owned is 40%. In other words, the majority of the "spoils" go to government.As I said before, the maximum marginal FEDERAL rate is 39.6%. The surcharge kicks in at $200,000 for singles and $250,000 for marrieds. At that level of income, the top marginal rate is less than 39.6% by more than the surcharge rate, and the surcharge is levied only against "investment income", not salaries or earnings from actual work. The 39.6 bracket is for high income persons who make over $400,000 per year from work. For the marginal rate to exceed 39.6% and equal 43.4%, a person must have a combination of work income over $400,000 per year AND investment income. Those are the facts, and anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.

$400,000 per year is a lot of money, and more than most all of the posters and readers of this forum make. Hats off and kudos to you, especially if you have investment income in excess of $200,000. You have my envy, but not my sympathy.

Tres3.

Tiny12

11-19-13, 17:49

As I said before, the maximum marginal FEDERAL rate is 39.6%. The surcharge kicks in at $200,000 for singles and $250,000 for marrieds. At that level of income, the top marginal rate is less than 39.6% by more than the surcharge rate, and the surcharge is levied only against "investment income", not salaries or earnings from actual work. The 39.6 bracket is for high income persons who make over $400,000 per year from work. For the marginal rate to exceed 39.6% and equal 43.4%, a person must have a combination of work income over $400,000 per year AND investment income. Those are the facts, and anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.

$400,000 per year is a lot of money, and more than most all of the posters and readers of this forum make. Hats off and kudos to you, especially if you have investment income in excess of $200,000. You have my envy, but not my sympathy.

Tres3.Tres, About the surcharge, you can call a train an orange as much as you want. That doesn't mean it's an orange. Every dollar of self-employment, interest, short term capital gains, or royalty income over $402,200 is taxed by the federal government at 43.4%. For people who get a paycheck, the marginal rate on salary income is 41.95%, with the employer picking up the 1.45% differential between two rates. I believe some part of the 3.8% Medicare / ACA component of tax on self employment income can be avoided if your business is in a Sub S corporation. But this strategy creates problems and doesn't work as well as LLC's for most businesses. I'm not looking for sympathy. I am pointing out that increasing marginal tax rates does not necessarily increase the amount of tax collected. High taxes, whether they be on people/businesses who make $20,000 a year or $20 million a year, reduce incentives and make the economy less dynamic.

Rev BS

11-19-13, 20:59

I assume that's what you say when you look in that famous magic mirror of yours.

First of all I'm not convinced they are successful, other than for medicaid, but if and that's a big if they are why can't your all knowing big government do the same thing nationwide? Are you making a case for states rights?

More words of wisdom from your magic mirror?

Am I required to like him? I can't remember one time that you ever spoke out against anything with Obama's name on it, can you?

Nope, not all would be crap, his resignation would be considered a godsent.I think I've gone as far as I can with this subject, anymore is not going to add additional value. It was never my intention for it to get personal. Time & elections will be the barometer for what Americans want.

For me, ACA has already achieve its purpose, and that is to change the footprint for health care in America. How it will survive in its original form does not matter to me as long as the universal mandate is present.

Buenos suerte.

Rev BS

11-20-13, 09:09

Two prominent candidates for the Man of the Year, 2013 was in the news in the last 24 hours. George Zimmerman of the "Right to Carry" fame, was charged with aggravated assault (pointing a shotgun at his girlfriend), domestic violence battery and criminal mischief. Way to go, George. I know, your girlfriend was probably encroaching and looking suspicious & dangerous.

And the 2nd, none other than the king of loansharks, Jamie Dimon. Him of the "you use our services, we charge you a fee. That's all we do". I need not say more.

If it was an AP vote, both men would be top contenders for the award. Alot of supporters and apologizers here. So who should I vote for the Man of the Year, 2013? No, no, no. The name does not start with O. O is having a shitty year. Initials, BB. BB King is the wrong answer.

Punter 127

11-20-13, 10:58

I think I've gone as far as I can with this subject, anymore is not going to add additional value. It was never my intention for it to get personal. Time & elections will be the barometer for what Americans want.
When you're debating politics and you can't adequately defend your position it's easy to succumb to attack the messenger tactics, I think its just the nature of the beast. So if you're not thick skinned or if you wear you heart on your sleeve you should avoid this thread. I agree with you about time and elections, and if the number of Democrats running from ObamaCare and current polls are any indication it's going to be painful for Democrats. Though his tactics may not have been optimal Ted Cruz made the public very aware that Democrats own ObamaCare, and control of the Senate could well change hands in 2014.

For me, ACA has already achieve its purpose, and that is to change the footprint for health care in America. How it will survive in its original form does not matter to me as long as the universal mandate is present.

Buenos suerte.If your goal was to see millions of Americans health insurance cancelled and have millions see their rates sky rocket, then you should be tickled pink, very pink.

In 1988 the Catastrophic Health Care Act was signed into law and it was repealed in 1989 because the people didn't like it, so don't think ObamaCare can't be repealed or changed. The ObamaCare Ponzi scheme can not support itself without gouging the American people.

Universal mandate? Sir we are citizens of a free Constitutional Republic and in our Republic the government doesn't put mandates on the people, "We The People" put mandates on the government.

My dislike for President Obama stems from his (and your) disrespect for the Constitution. In my opinion President Obamas distain for the Constitution coupled with the support of people like you has put the Republic in jeopardy. Below is links (pages 1 & 2) to an article that explains what I'm talking about, I strongly suggest everyone read it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/11/19/obamas-disdain-for-the-constitution-means-we-risk-losing-our-republic/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/11/19/obamas-disdain-for-the-constitution-means-we-risk-losing-our-republic/2/

Rev BS

11-20-13, 13:23

When you're debating politics and you can't adequately defend your position it's easy to succumb to attack the messenger tactics, I think its just the nature of the beast. So if you're not thick skinned or if you wear you heart on your sleeve you should avoid this thread. I agree with you about time and elections, and if the number of Democrats running from ObamaCare and current polls are any indication it's going to be painful for Democrats. Though his tactics may not have been optimal Ted Cruz made the public very aware that Democrats own ObamaCare, and control of the Senate could well change hands in 2014.

If your goal was to see millions of Americans health insurance cancelled and have millions see their rates sky rocket, then you should be tickled pink, very pink.

In 1988 the Catastrophic Health Care Act was signed into law and it was repealed in 1989 because the people didn't like it, so don't think ObamaCare can't be repealed or changed. The ObamaCare Ponzi scheme can not support itself without gouging the American people.

Universal mandate? Sir we are citizens of a free Constitutional Republic and in our Republic the government doesn't put mandates on the people, "We The People" put mandates on the government.

My dislike for President Obama stems from his (and your) disrespect for the Constitution. In my opinion President Obamas distain for the Constitution coupled with the support of people like you has put the Republic in jeopardy. Below is links (pages 1 & 2) to an article that explains what I'm talking about, I strongly suggest everyone read it.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/11/19/obamas-disdain-for-the-constitution-means-we-risk-losing-our-republic/

http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2013/11/19/obamas-disdain-for-the-constitution-means-we-risk-losing-our-republic/2/I am speechless.

Punter 127

11-21-13, 02:28

CBS Poll: 84% of Democrats Want ObamaCare Changed or Repealed

A fascinating number in Wednesday's CBS poll is that only 7% of the American public want ObamaCare "kept in place." A full 93% either believe that changes are needed to the law (48%) or want a full repeal (43%). This pits President Obama and Democrat lawmakers -- who thus far have refused to make any meaningful changes -- against 93% of the American people and 72% of Democrats.

Moreover, only 12% of Democrats want ObamaCare "kept as is." Another 12% want it repealed.

If only 12% of Democrats want nothing changed with ObamaCare, there is no question that Democrat lawmakers and the president are defying their own base with this ongoing refusal to make any real changes to the law. Furthermore, they are blocking proposed changes, including changes proposed by fellow Democrats.

The growing narrative from the media and ObamaCare champions is that Democrats need to "stay the course." Analyzing the Democrats' political options, ABC's Rick Klein writes today:

Lost in the Democratic angst over Obamacare is a simple fact of 2014 politics: They don’t really have any choice but to own it. … No quantity of votes on “fixes” now will matter in the broad messaging wars later; no lawmaker, and virtually no Democratic challenger, will be able to seal him or herself off from potential political damage.

Klein is not alone with this advice. But how exactly is that a smart play when 84% of Democrats disagree?

A fair question to ask is, "What kind of changes do Democrat voters want?" A poll released by ABC News yesterday showed that two-thirds of Americans oppose ObamaCare's individual mandate. There are definitely some Democrats in that group.

It is also safe to guess that a whole lot of Democrat voters would like to see laws passed that ensure people don’t lose the insurance Obama repeatedly promised they could keep. But those are legislative changes the president has threatened to veto and Democrat leaders refuse to even put to a vote.

As the 2014 midterms loom large late next year, ObamaCare is almost certain to have begun its rampage through the lives of the 95% of Americans who are insured through group and employer plans. The administration itself predicts that tens of millions will lose their insurance as the new employer mandate kicks in. For obvious reasons, the media is covering this fact up. But cover-ups can't stop reality from becoming reality.

By this time next year, "stay the course" is probably going to look like a suicide pact.There won't be any gratification in the failure of ObamaCare because so many Americans were hurt by it, but I hope it helps people realize the pitfalls of big government.

WorldTravel69

11-21-13, 04:49

What are you reading? FOX SHIT?

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cbs-poll-obamacare-repealed/2013/11/20/id/537683

CBS Poll: 84% of Democrats Want ObamaCare Changed or Repealed

There won't be any gratification in the failure of ObamaCare because so many Americans were hurt by it, but I hope it helps people realize the pitfalls of big government.

WorldTravel69

11-21-13, 05:38

Walmart pays $8.18 cents an hour. There cost there for employees a year is $1700 + or. Salary a year.

The level of poverty rate in this country now is $23,000 a Year.

The company wants the workers to give there fellow workers Money or gifts, because of there low wages for the Holidays.

Walmart is largest employer in the World. They also sell the most food products in the world.

They can't give away a Free Turkey! They are the most greediest Mother Fuckers in the world.

Each of the family is worth Billions of dollars.

Just think how much you would be willing to share help our girl friends and their families for a few dollars.

They Need to Unionize, but the Republicans will not let Them Do it.

Or the Republican Supreme Court.

WTF.

Come On You guys are not that dis-hearted.

Eron123 or others tell us you Care about the people or the Republicans that Don't Care about them and you?

Punter 127

11-21-13, 06:03

What are you reading? FOX SHIT?

http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/cbs-poll-obamacare-repealed/2013/11/20/id/537683"CBS Poll: 84% of Democrats Want ObamaCare Changed or Repealed".

Dude can you read? That's from a "CBS poll". Now I guess CBS is on the same "FOX SHIT" list?

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government

Added info: "Just 7 percent of Americans think the Affordable Care Act is working well and should be kept in place as it is." That's from your Newsmax link WT.

Punter 127

11-21-13, 06:20

Walmart pays $8.18 cents an hour. There cost there for employees a year is $1700 + or. Salary a year.

The level of poverty rate in this country now is $2300 a Year.

The company wants the workers to give there fellow workers Money or gifts, because of there low wages for the Holidays.

Walmart is largest employer in the World. They also sell the most food products in the world.

They can't give away a Free Turkey! They are the most greediest Mother Fuckers in the world.

Each of the family is worth Billions of dollars.

Just think how much you would be willing to share help our girl friends and their families for a few dollars.

They Need to Unionize, but the Republicans will not let Them Do it.

Or the Republican Supreme Court.

WTF.

Come On You guys are not that dis-hearted.

Eron123 or others tell us you Care about the people or the Republicans that Don't Care about them and you?Would this be the same Walmart that Hillary ('What Difference Does It Make?) Clinton served on the board of directors? How many turkeys did she give away?

WorldTravel69

11-21-13, 07:06

I was in my 20's. All of us felt there was hope for our country and then JFK was Killed, but when Bobbie was killed, I did not now how the world cared about US?

I was In Sweden when Robert was killed, Most People Were crying, I did not understand Swedish, but I asked what was happening. They told me that Robert Kennedy was killed. I thought how could a foreign Country Care about Us?

Now, I have been reading stories of kids about "where you were when when JFK was killed" "I remember where I was during my Apprenticeship in printing I was in my 20's," I did not know about kids 10 to 15 in those years felt, it brought tears to my eyes reading their stories in today's SF Chronicle. I cared and did not know how the rest of the world cared about us.

Ask a Kid today Who is the President? They do not know anythings about today's history? {There answer to who is the President is would be who cares?

Check What the Republican have done for you?

Do You Know What progress the Republicans has helped the workers in the last few Years?

Speak up or Apologize?

Answer is: NONE to help the workers!! Or Health Care!

Again what are the Plans?

I could not understand how a foreign country could feel any thing about who our next President could be? But they do.

Tres3

11-21-13, 10:02

They Need to Unionize, but the Republicans will not let Them Do it.I do not like Walmart and seldom shop there for a variety of reasons, but you need to get your facts straight WT69. Walmart does not unionize because their employees (the same ones you say are below the poverty line) repeatedly vote against a union, not because "the Republicans will not let them do it". If Walmart is such a bad employer, why does each Walmart store opening have at least five applicants for every job available? I do not think Walmart pays enough, but I also cannot argue with the numbers, and do not believe that they should be forced or coerced into paying more when the numbers say that there are people willing to work for what they are offering.

Tres3.

Daddy Rulz

11-21-13, 12:25

There was an article in Bloomberg about this.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-13/how-mcdonald-s-and-wal-mart-became-welfare-queens.html

In it the author says.

Wal-Mart, the nation’s largest private sector employer, is also the biggest consumer of taxpayer supported aid. According to Florida Congressman Alan Grayson, in many states, Wal-Mart employees are the largest group of Medicaid recipients. They are also the single biggest group of food stamp recipients. Wal-mart’s "associates" are paid so little, according to Grayson, that they receive $1,000 on average in public assistance. These amount to massive taxpayer subsidies for private companies.

Why are profitable, dividend-paying firms receiving taxpayer subsidies? The short answer is, because they can. The longer answer is more complex and nuanced.

Both McDonald's and Wal-Mart are engaging in perfectly legal behavior. The system was set up long ago in ways that failed to imagine companies doing this. Yes, they are taking advantage of the taxpayer, but they are also operating within the law.As the author says, they aren't breaking the law in any way. They are operating within the law and we as taxpayers are subsidizing their success. This isn't something they do by accident, they have resources within their companies that help their employees sign up for public assistance. I know the guys out to the right are going to say remove the public assistance and the employees will leave, it's their (employee's) own fault that they didn't prepare themselves for greater success and I have no argument against that and to a degree I agree with that position.

I'm not sure if I agree with the Authors solution that raising the minimum wage is the answer, but I do see a certain poetry in the idea of charging back companies that pay a dividend for the amount of tax payer supported aid that their employees receive. I'm not saying I think we should do that but I do see a certain poetry in it. If the majority of your employee's are on public assistance and your company is extremely profitable then there is obviously something wrong with your compensation package. I don't think it would work because Walmart would just throw everybody to part time and say our hands are clean.

I really don't know what the solution is but it still irritates me that a substantial part of Walmarts bottom line is a result of the fact that, by design, their employee benefit package is largely comprised of public assistance which we all pay for.

Rev BS

11-21-13, 12:46

I thought it was interesting that on Friday my investment portfolio hit another all-time high, the day after I got notified I was eligible for the health care subsidy. So now the DOW is up over 50% since we got rid of Bush and his ilk, PLUS I now have affordable health care for the first time since I retired. Now all you righties have to bear in mind that when I retired early, that opened up an opportunity for someone younger, and that opportunity would not have been there had I not retired. So if you get pissed off about subsidizing my health care, find that person who took my job and make him or her pay.

Obama: Good for your portfolio and good for your health.He is telling me to brush my teeth. He is telling me to exercise. He is telling me to give my money to the poor. He is telling me to think of others. He is telling me too much! How can I enjoy my life when he is giving me all these shit. I need freedom, I need liberty. I need an ass-rim job after breakfast, a blow job after lunch, and a 3-girl all out no prisoners fuckfest after midnight.

Tell him he is fucking up my life.

Punter 127

11-21-13, 13:35

Their wages equal to 17,00 a year, the national poverty level is $23,000 per year.[snip]Poverty level for an individual is $11,495 after inflation not $23,000. Your $23,000 number is for a family of four, according to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/12computations.shtml

So at $8.18 per hour or $17,014 per year the individual is $5,519 a year above poverty level.

If you want to use the family of four number I think you have to assume two adults of working age, so you can double the $17,014 per year, so the families yearly income would be $34,028 which is $11,028 above poverty.

Don't we have a federal minimum wage law for just this reason?

I'm not defending Walmart but let use the real numbers.

Question, WT where did you get the $8.18 number?

WorldTravel69

11-21-13, 14:55

I watch so many news channels I do not know which one it was.

But this may help you.

http://useconomy.about.com/od/glossary/g/Federal_Poverty_Level.htm

Poverty level for an individual is $11,495 after inflation not $23,000. Your $23,000 number is for a family of four, according to the U.S. Department of Health & Human Services.

http://aspe.hhs.gov/poverty/12computations.shtml

So at $8.18 per hour or $17,014 per year the individual is $5,519 a year above poverty level.

If you want to use the family of four number I think you have to assume two adults of working age, so you can double the $17,014 per year, so the families yearly income would be $34,028 which is $11,028 above poverty.

Don't we have a federal minimum wage law for just this reason?

I'm not defending Walmart but let use the real numbers.

Question, WT where did you get the $8.18 number?

WorldTravel69

11-21-13, 16:20

I have heard this so many times. The workers are afraid to vote for the Union because if they did they would be fired.

I do not like Walmart and seldom shop there for a variety of reasons, but you need to get your facts straight WT69. Walmart does not unionize because their employees (the same ones you say are below the poverty line) repeatedly vote against a union, not because "the Republicans will not let them do it". If Walmart is such a bad employer, why does each Walmart store opening have at least five applicants for every job available? I do not think Walmart pays enough, but I also cannot argue with the numbers, and do not believe that they should be forced or coerced into paying more when the numbers say that there are people willing to work for what they are offering.

Tres3.

Rev BS

11-21-13, 19:38

Washington Times, November 19,2013.

"The law was a costly mistake, but at least it started us on the road to much needed health care reform, and it authors can be proud of the fact."

A nice way to say "let's work together". But for the Hatfields vs McCoys feud. Shi'a vs Sunni. The issues are irrelevant, the ideology reign supreme. The extremists in America are no different from the Muslim fundamentalists that we so despise. So proud, so stubborn, so divisive. Sitting so pretty, feeling good & dismissive just because they have a little more cash in their pockets than the other guy

Did you oppose voting rights, women's rights, labor rights like your forefathers? Who are you?

Jackson

11-21-13, 19:58

I have heard this so many times. The workers are afraid to vote for the Union because if they did they would be fired.WT,

I assume that you know that the DOJ investigates allegations of employee intimidation in unionization votes, right?

I defy you to find one example in the past 10 years where a federal investigation resulted in a conviction in a case where company employees were intimidated into refraining from voting in a unionization vote by agents of the company.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the company employees know that the unions will eventually destroy their jobs.

Does anybody remember the 1979 movie "Norma Rae" in which the union organizers were successful in organizing the textile factory where Norma worked.

Does anybody know what actually happened to the textile industry in the South after the wave of factory unionization's? That's right, in the next 30 years, all of those factories closed and the jobs moved overseas.

I understand the same thing happened to the printing industry in San Francisco, but I could be mistaken.

Thanks,

Jackson.

"Facts aren't important to liberals. Only emotion is important."

Rev BS

11-21-13, 21:14

From Steven Hayward, Forbes, November 11,2013.

"While liberals are in dismay, they should recognized that ObamaCare may well have achieved its chief purpose of making universal care or at least greatly expanded health coverage a fixture of American social policy.

So, stop the foaming at your mouth!

WorldTravel69

11-21-13, 22:27

Here is one.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/10/31/union-busting-tacticsondisplayatduluthgaplant.html

I remember some that happened in the past, but I can not remember the company names.

Yes, the Printers Union lost many jobs because of Outsourcing.

Why pay Union wages, if you can pay someone $1 or $2 a day to do the work, with no health care benefits.

Oh yes, you mean the 8 stories that collapsed killing the textile workers. Remember the illustration I posted?

WT,

I assume that you know that the DOJ investigates allegations of employee intimidation in unionization votes, right?

I defy you to find one example in the past 10 years where a federal investigation resulted in a conviction in a case where company employees were intimidated into refraining from voting in a unionization vote by agents of the company.

Of course, it's entirely possible that the company employees know that the unions will eventually destroy their jobs.

Does anybody remember the 1979 movie "Norma Rae" in which the union organizers were successful in organizing the textile factory where Norma worked.

Does anybody know what actually happened to the textile industry in the South after the wave of factory unionization's? That's right, in the next 30 years, all of those factories closed and the jobs moved overseas.

I understand the same thing happened to the printing industry in San Francisco, but I could be mistaken.

Thanks,

Jackson.

"Facts aren't important to liberals. Only emotion is important."

Jackson

11-21-13, 22:34

Here is one.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/10/31/union-busting-tacticsondisplayatduluthgaplant.html

I remember some that happened in the past, but I can not remember the company names.

Yes, the Printers Union lost many jobs because of Outsourcing.

Why pay Union wages, if you can pay someone $1 or $2 a day to do the work, with no health care benefits.

Oh yes, you mean the 8 stories that collapsed killing the textile workers. Remember the illustration I posted?Now you're quoting Aljazeera as a news source? Jajajajaja!

Anyway, the article you referred to is titled "Workers allege union busting at government contractor in Georgia".

That's not exactly the same as "Dept. Of Justice attorneys secured a conviction for union busting at government contractor in Georgia".

I challenged you "to find one example in the past 10 years where a federal investigation resulted in a conviction in a case where company employees were intimidated into refraining from voting in a unionization vote by agents of the company."

What you presented was "Allegations made by workers to Aljazeera reporters".

Do you see the difference?

Once again, you need to up your game because there aren't very many LIV (Low Information Voters) on this website, so the usual liberal drivel won't fly.

Thanks,

Jax.

Rock Harders

11-22-13, 00:39

WorldTravel69

11-22-13, 04:35

This is what anti union jobs lead to.

http://images.search.yahoo.com/search/images;_ylt=A0SO8zb_Ao9SNiwAmrRXNyoA?p=building+colapses+in+banladesh&fr=yfp-t-900&fr2=piv-web

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/28/bangladesh-building-collapse-fire-factory_n_3174732.html

http://accountingfuture.wordpress.com/2013/11/16/how-outsourcing-has-affected-job-markets/

http://blogs.wsj.com/indiarealtime/2013/08/29/top-india-stories-from-wsj-skidding-rupee-endangers-economy-outsourcing-firms-cry-foul-on-bill-building-collapses-kill-11/

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/27/opinion/a-broken-outsourcing-model.html?_r=0

http://outsourcingandthedollar.blogspot.com/

http://science.time.com/2013/04/29/fast-cheap-dead-shopping-and-the-bangladesh-factory-collapse/

Jackson have ever really did {done} a physical days work in your life? Do you know what a shovel is?

Now you're quoting Aljazeera as a news source? Jajajajaja!

Anyway, the article you referred to is titled "Workers allege union busting at government contractor in Georgia".

That's not exactly the same as "Dept. Of Justice attorneys secured a conviction for union busting at government contractor in Georgia".

I challenged you "to find one example in the past 10 years where a federal investigation resulted in a conviction in a case where company employees were intimidated into refraining from voting in a unionization vote by agents of the company."

What you presented was "Allegations made by workers to Aljazeera reporters".

Do you see the difference?

Once again, you need to up your game because there aren't very many LIV (Low Information Voters) on this website, so the usual liberal drivel won't fly.

Thanks,

Jax.

DallasNorte

11-22-13, 10:00

WT, explain this: CGI Federal is the USA Arm of a Canadian company.

Jackson

11-22-13, 12:52

Mongers-.

The right wing fascists on this forum, led by Jackson himself, bashed the auto bailouts and were willing to let both GM and Chrysler be liquidated and allow millions of workers to lose their jobs. GM is now sitting on a $26 billion cash pile and Chrysler is looking at a $10 billion valuation for its soon to come IPO; the US Treasury will liquidate its final 2% of GM holdings before year end. The entire US auto industry has surpassed pre-crisis sales figures and are making genuinely competitive vehicles; if Jackson and his fascist lackies (Punter, Toyman, Sidney, etc) had their way only Ford would exist millions of well-paid workers would have footholds in the fast food and retail industries earning minimum wage.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-21/treasury-plans-to-exit-general-motors-investment-by-year-end-1-.htmlMore liberal hyperbole, designed to sway the emotions of the LIV.

The truth is that the demand for cars would still exist, and thus the need for the factories and their workers would still exist, and thus ultimately the only difference would have been the company name on the side of the building.

Of course, Obama wouldn't have had the opportunity to strip the GM bondholders of their equity and then give it to the unions, but he needed their support regardless of what was legally correct.

You liberals need to up your game here because the drivel you usually pitch to the LIV's just isn't going to work in this intellectually elevated venue.

Thanks,

Jax.

Tres3

11-22-13, 13:10

I love Christmas lights! They remind me of the people who voted for Obama.

They all hang together; half of them don't work, and and the ones that do, aren't all that bright!

Tres3.

Rock Harders

11-22-13, 14:14

Jackson

11-22-13, 16:33

Jackpot

11-22-13, 16:46

El Queso

11-22-13, 17:43

I had to post this, as I thought it was kind of funny (actually bust a gut at the last paragraph). Jackson and I just recently had a discussion about this, where we turned out we were arguing the same basic premise, just to different degrees.

Still, as historian Michael Beschloss pronounced the day after his election, he’s “probably the smartest guy ever to become president.” Naturally, Obama shares this assessment. As he assured us five years ago, “I know more about policies on any particular issue than my policy directors.” Well, apart from his signature health-care policy. That’s a mystery to him. “I was not informed directly that the website would not be working,” he told us. The buck stops with something called “the executive branch,” which is apparently nothing to do with him. As evidence that he was entirely out of the loop, he offered this:

Had I been I informed, I wouldn’t be going out saying, “Boy, this is going to be great.” You know, I’m accused of a lot of things, but I don’t think I’m stupid enough to go around saying, “This is going to be like shopping on Amazon or Travelocity,” a week before the website opens, if I thought that it wasn’t going to work.

Ooooo-kay. So, if I follow correctly, the smartest president ever is not smart enough to ensure that his website works; he’s not smart enough to inquire of others as to whether his website works; he’s not smart enough to check that his website works before he goes out and tells people what a great website experience they’re in for. But he is smart enough to know that he’s not stupid enough to go around bragging about how well it works if he’d already been informed that it doesn’t work. So he’s smart enough to know that if he’d known what he didn’t know he’d know enough not to let it be known that he knew nothing. The country’s in the very best of hands.
This is from an article (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/364093/thus-spake-obama-mark-steyn) accusing Obama of acting like a king.

In my opinion, where JFK was associated with King Arthur and Camelot, the same was tried with Obama but it seems to me he comes across as more King John Lackland of England, famous for having had the Magna Carta forced on him and such a bad king (lost land to France, was cruel and vindictive in his rule, etc) there was never another named John, as I understand.

King Obama Lackplan of America.

Rev BS

11-22-13, 18:07

I love Christmas lights! They remind me of the people who voted for Obama.

They all hang together; half of them don't work, and and the ones that do, aren't all that bright!

Tres3.So you are claiming that you are the Silver Star atop the Christmas tree? Too many people wearing a big Ego medallion on their chest around here just because they can spell a few words.

El Queso

11-22-13, 18:19

You are the only one here lacking facts; you are speculating about what a possible outcome MIGHT have been and have no actual empirical evidence to back up anything you are claiming. The FACT is that both GM and Chrysler were BANKRUPT, were saved from liquidation (meaning EXISTING jobs and EXISTING factories continued to EXIST) and today are earning BILLIONS. The most likely outcome of allowing GM and Chrysler to implode is that Japanese automakers would have absorbed the additional demand for cars through their own factories and employees. Regarding what was "legally correct", the entire TARP program was with no precedent and on dubious legal ground before it was invented on the fly and implemented to stop the US economy from grinding to a halt.Far from being a right-wing fascist myself, I am rather a true Libertarian who has some grounding in a whole lot of activities ranging from ditch digging to designing / drafting buildings, to erecting large buildings as a superintendent, to being a programmer, to managing software development for the world's largest offshore drilling company and finally running my own businesses, and having had a failure am in the middle of rebuilding. For the last few years I have been studying economic concepts of both the Austrian and Keynesian schools. While not a highly-learned student of economics, I do see in this point about the distribution of resources what seems to me to be a typical misunderstanding of what all this means.

If there is a demand for something, the resources WILL be recovered in some fashion. This isn't some might-have-been; even Keynesians believe this to some extent, they simply think it's a good idea to encourage the economy to do it quicker than natural, and in the direction they want (which, of course, almost always leads to bubbles).

Austrians believe that you will always pay for your tampering of the market. They believe that the resources will be naturally recovered and redistributed by market forces and less damage will be done as a result, both because an artificial bubble made by politician's whimsical desires doesn't lead a lot of consumers or investors into the wrong sort of thing (I.e., reduces risk to begin with) and doesn't leave the economy weak as a result of messing with chaotic forces that no one has yet been able to predict and really plan for, limiting future growth until everything is in harmony again.

The reason free market believers have problems with bailing out private industry is because it is only making a bad position worse and will never get better. The auto-industry has been hampered long past necessity by unions. The demands made by collective bargaining have distorted that market in the US and made it very vulnerable to competition from the outside. There are certainly other issues, such as bad management and in some cases bad quality, etc. But at the end of the day, the government propping up private industry is doing nothing but taking money from the economy and using it to continue to prop up bad business and keep resources locked up in poorly-performing economic situations.

If the businesses failed, they would certainly have been redistributed back into the economy and eventually recovered. No might-have-been. I don't think any real economists actually doubt that. But the problem is, those resources may not have been redistributed back into Detroit and other places that have high labor and other costs due to the high influence of collective bargaining. That is where everyone freaks out. My god, all those people may not have had jobs!

But it was their choice! In this day and age, collective bargaining is ridiculous. A job is worth what a job is worth. I don't have a problem if a particular state has a belief that collective bargaining is cool and gets great salaries, but don't expect me, as a taxpayer, to want to contribute to that because the only way they can survive long term with ridiculous salaries and benefits is for the government to help them out at some point. It's not my problem that in my opinion they are way overpaid, and how dare anyone tell me that I should support their artificially-high prices.

If the resources are released and Japanese and German automakers want to by up tools and equipment and other such things and move to other states where collective bargaining is not a problem (considering that foreign automakers already have a number of factories in the US, I can't imagine why they would try to export cars at a higher price than consumers want to pay), I say more power to them. The people in other states will get the benefit of the new jobs, I won't have to bail out a bunch of people who think they are entitled to artificial wage rates, and maybe it will force those people where the jobs were to innovate in some fashion to bring jobs back into their state instead of depending on the other taxpayers of the same country to keep them in their little idealic fantasy.

Let the resources go to those who deserve them by taking care of the resources and increasing their value by using labor and the ingenuity of those workers and not expecting everyone else to suffer for their artificially high demands.

Unfortunately, propping them up has extended the problem and it will just get even worse the next time.

Propping up ANYTHING (be it banks, Wall Street, the auto industry, or the restaurant around the corner) is doing nothing more than delaying the problem.

I think politicians should adopt an item from the Hippocratic Oath: First, do no harm.

Don't just read the words, understand why the Hippocratic Oath contains those words and how they apply to a doctor meddling with his patient.

Rev BS

11-22-13, 21:05

Punter 127

11-23-13, 01:33

The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll for Friday shows that 45% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Obama's job performance. Fifty-four percent (54%) disapprove.

The latest figures include 22% who Strongly Approve of the way Obama is performing as president and 44% who Strongly Disapprove. This gives him a Presidential Approval Index rating of -22.The only thing dropping faster than Obamas poll numbers is the number of insured people.

Dickhead

11-23-13, 16:39

Of course, Obama wouldn't have had the opportunity to strip the GM bondholders of their equity Bondholders don't have equity. They are creditors. And THAT is a fact.

Esten

11-23-13, 17:50

Notice how Republicans never cite their own poll numbers, which are absolutely in the toilet. Lower than approval ratings for Congressional Democrats, and less than half of Obama.

Dickhead

11-23-13, 19:28

Notice how Republicans never cite their own poll numbers, which are absolutely in the toilet. Lower than approval ratings for Congressional Democrats, and less than half of Obama.Surely you jest. There are no Republicans on this board, only 'Libertarians.

Rock Harders

11-23-13, 19:41

Mongers-.

The clock is ticking for Jackson and his slithery fascist brethren.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-20/blame-rich-overeducated-elites-as-our-society-frays.html

El Queso

11-23-13, 21:17

From the NY Times, Timothy Egan, November 21,2013.(selected).

"The South is once again committed to take a backward path. By refusing to expand health care to the working poor through Medicaid, most of the Confederacy is keeping millions of its own citizens in poverty and poor health. They are dooming themselves further, as the Left Behind States.

And they are doing it out spite(can you believe that, just because of Obama). Most of the South is defiant--their own Lost Cause of the 21st century.

And so the South continue their incestous and self destructive ways. In a world of their own making. But there will be an awakening one day, hope it won't be too late.That sounds a lot to me more like a passive-aggressive way of saying "you're either with us or against us", much like a lot of progressives accused Bush of when he was inciting war with Iraq. God forbid should people have their own reasons for doing things without all the guilt-tripping that goes along with it. On either side.

I'm sure they are doing all that "just to spite Obama."

Jackson

11-24-13, 13:52

Bondholders don't have equity. They are creditors. And THAT is a fact.And as creditors, they were in line before any stockholders to be repaid from any equity that may have remained after a legal bankrupacy, and THAT is a fact.

In this case, the Obama administration ignored the country's bankrupacy laws and instead gave $25 billion in GM stock to the UAW while simultaneously telling the legitimate GM bondholders to go pound sand, and THAT is a fact.

Of course, the most important thing to liberals is that we're not talking about the ObamaCare diaster!

Jackson

11-24-13, 14:20

Surely you jest. There are no Republicans on this board, only 'Libertarians.That's because in the view of many fiscally conservative members of this forum the Republican Party is on the wrong side of a number of social issues including recreational drugs, contractual sex, right to choose, etc.

Thus if you are fiscally conservative but socially liberal, you have embraced the basic tenants of the Libertarian philosophy.

Thanks,

Jax.

==============================================

For the record, I am NOT a Republican, and I am NOT a conservative.

- I am against the death penalty.
- I am against any government support of religious organizations.
- I am for the legalization of recreational drugs.
- I am for the legalization of commercial sex.
- I am for a woman's right to choose.
- I am for comprehensive sex education.
- I am for a foreign guest worker program.
- I am for a universal flat tax on EVERYONE'S income.
- I am for health INSURANCE reform.
- I am for health JUSTICE reform.

I am a member of the Libertarian Party, registered as an Independent.

Jackson

11-24-13, 14:27

Mongers-.

The clock is ticking for Jackson and his slithery fascist brethren.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-11-20/blame-rich-overeducated-elites-as-our-society-frays.htmlHey Rock,

Apparently you missed an important day in civics class, so let me educate you.

According to the Webster dictionary, fascism is "a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government, very harsh control or authority.

The word "fascist" much more accurately describes your hero Obama than it does me.

Thanks,

Jax

==============================================

For the record, I am NOT a Republican, and I am NOT a conservative.

- I am against the death penalty.
- I am against any government support of religious organizations.
- I am for the legalization of recreational drugs.
- I am for the legalization of commercial sex.
- I am for a woman's right to choose.
- I am for comprehensive sex education.
- I am for a foreign guest worker program.
- I am for a universal flat tax on EVERYONE'S income.
- I am for health INSURANCE reform.
- I am for health JUSTICE reform.

I am a member of the Libertarian Party, registered as an Independent.

Daddy Rulz

11-24-13, 18:26

I am for health JUSTICE reform.I've never heard the term "health justice". I googled it but came up empty. What does it mean if you don't mind me asking?

WorldTravel69

11-24-13, 19:00

How do you feel about the Tea Party?

Shouldn't the Tea Party be a third Party?

It seems like they are too conservative for the Sane Republicans.

Hey Rock,

Apparently you missed an important day in civics class, so let me educate you.

According to the Webster dictionary, fascism is "a way of organizing a society in which a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people and in which people are not allowed to disagree with the government, very harsh control or authority.

The word "fascist" much more accurately describes your hero Obama that it does me.

Thanks,

Jax

==============================================

For the record, I am NOT a Republican, and I am NOT a conservative.

- I am against the death penalty.
- I am against any government support of religious organizations.
- I am for the legalization of recreational drugs.
- I am for the legalization of commercial sex.
- I am for a woman's right to choose.
- I am for comprehensive sex education.
- I am for a foreign guest worker program.
- I am for a universal flat tax on EVERYONE'S income.
- I am for health INSURANCE reform.
- I am for health JUSTICE reform.

I am a member of the Libertarian Party, registered as an Independent.

Rev BS

11-24-13, 22:42

Michael Hiltzik, Los Angeles Times, November 22,2013.(selected).

"House Speaker John Boehner tried to make a public spectacle out of his own experience signing for a health plan. Things didn't turn out quite the way he'd hoped for. In other words, he succeeded. Boehner did pretty well with ObamaCare. He was eligible for a bronze plan (among others) with a $6,000 annual deductible for $372.14 which is just 2% of Boehner's salary.

And so it goes, we are 7 weeks into the transition, it's been crazy. You mean you expected it to be clockwork, how naive can you be. Ever try to go to the airport on a holiday weekend? One Monday, I couldn't even return my rental car for over an hour. Frustration abound. But in the GOP camp, they are dancing with joy and predicting disaster. We shall see, in another 2 months, in another 10 months. Will the dancing continue to be frantic, drug induced body jerking or to a mere shuffling of the feet. Very interesting times.

Tiny12

11-25-13, 17:58

Fascists and libertarians are about as far apart as you can get on the political spectrum.

Punter 127

11-25-13, 20:34

Fascism, socialism, and communism are movements that have considerably more in common with modern progressive liberalism (aka nannyism) than modern Conservatism or Libertarianism.

The auto bailout which was started under Bush and continued by Obama (anybody can follow the leader) was a merger of government and corporate power, however in true capitalism there is no such thing as "to big to fail". Chrysler has been bailed out twice over the years, how many times should we reward poor management, until they can't repay perhaps?

If you want to see the real effects of collective bargaining and progressive liberal leadership one need look no farther than the auto industry and the bankrupt city of Detroit, which hasn't had a Republican mayor in 50 years.

You can also see the merger of government and corporate power in ObamaCare, individuals are being forced to buy insurance from private insurers, that's certainly not capitalism. It's all being controlled by big business, the unions, (which are also big business) and big banks, and the Obama parasites are in bed with all of them.

When a bigoted progressive liberal starts name calling and stereotyping people it really doesn't have much effect other than to get them some left handed high fives. In this case however it also exposes the progressive liberals lack of class and their desperation as the wheels fall off the ObamaCare buggy.

Punter 127

11-26-13, 01:05

”Democrats Afraid Leaders Suffer Obamacare Denial”

With millions of Americans receiving health insurance cancellation notices and President Barack Obama's approval and trustworthiness ratings nosediving, Democratic strategists and pollsters say they fear top Democratic congressional leaders are in denial over the electoral consequences of the Obamacare debacle.

"We're trying to deny what everyone knows is happening," a veteran Democratic pollster told Politico. "Anybody who is halfway intelligent knows this is a big ... problem for us. It's impossible not to see. We can try to hide our heads in the sand and pretend it's not a problem, but it is."

Another Democratic pollster, Paul Maslin, said, "As worried as they were a month ago, we're worried now."

Still, Democratic leaders like House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and Democratic National Committee Chairwoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz (D-FL) say Obamacare will be an electoral asset, not liability, in next year's midterm elections.

"I think actually that Democratic candidates will be able to run on Obamacare as an advantage leading into the 2014 elections," Schultz said.

Similarly, Pelosi has said Democrats "stand by the policy--we're proud of it."

A CNN/ORC poll released Monday finds that for the first time, 53% of Americans believe Obama is not honest or trustworthy, and 56% do not admire Obama.

According to the RealClearPolitics poll average, 57% of Americans are against Obamacare.

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/11/25/Democrats-Afraid-Leaders-Suffer-Obamacare-Denial

We didn't need Nancy Pelosi and Debbie Wasserman Schultz to tell us ObamaCare's an electoral asset, Rev. BS has been preaching that for a long time.

I hope every Democrat running takes thier advice and openly supports ObamaCare.

Member #4112

11-27-13, 15:46

Obama circumvented standard Chapter 13 bankruptcy laws and placed GM & Chrysler in something I call Obama-rutcy, to insure the UAW kept their current labor contracts intact and not to "save the company".

Neither GM nor Chrysler considered filing Chapter 7, liquidation of the company and it's assets. Had GM & Chrysler followed a standard Chapter 13 bankruptcy course the court would most probably have allowed them to void their current labor contracts with the UAW. The companies would have emerged from Chapter 13 leaner and more competitive with new labor contracts.

This was simple naked pandering to the UAW by Obama. Why else would Obama put the American people on the hook for THREE TIMES WHAT THE COMPANY WAS WORTH?

While GM has "repaid" their loans from the initial bailout, they merely exchanged those loans for new government loans.

ObamaCare is still a train wreck and the website will not be up and running by the end of November as Obama promised. In fact the administration is telling its supporters not to use the site and is trying to place work- a-rounds in to let people sign up and not use the website.

If Obama thought the individual health policy cancellations were something the second shoe is going to drop in August – October 2014 when company insurance policies begin receiving cancellation notices throwing over 100 million people off their company plans.

Obama and the Democrats knew back in 2010 both individual and company insurance plans would be cancelled due to ObamaCare and just continued to lie to the American people.

2014 is coming and it will make 2010 look like a church social for the Democrats. I only hope the Republicans don't dance on their dicks too much and win a veto proof majority to insure there is no ink in Obama's veto pen. Then we can get back to a sane domestic and foreign policy.

WorldTravel69

11-27-13, 20:17

Wow, can you believe it?

http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Conservative-leads-effort-on-wages-in-California-5014766.php

Rev BS

11-28-13, 20:56

We may bicker, we may *****, we even call each other names. But never mind, all is well. If you just look under the bed, so much to be thankful for. Enjoy but watch the calories!

Rock Harders

11-28-13, 23:36

This is inaccurate information. Chapter 13 bankruptcy laws had absolutely nothing to do with the GM or Chrysler bailouts and were not applicable in either case.

Obama circumvented standard Chapter 13 bankruptcy laws and placed GM & Chrysler in something I call Obama-rutcy, to insure the UAW kept their current labor contracts intact and not to "save the company".

Neither GM nor Chrysler considered filing Chapter 7, liquidation of the company and it's assets. Had GM & Chrysler followed a standard Chapter 13 bankruptcy course the court would most probably have allowed them to void their current labor contracts with the UAW. The companies would have emerged from Chapter 13 leaner and more competitive with new labor contracts.

This was simple naked pandering to the UAW by Obama. Why else would Obama put the American people on the hook for THREE TIMES WHAT THE COMPANY WAS WORTH?

While GM has "repaid" their loans from the initial bailout, they merely exchanged those loans for new government loans.

ObamaCare is still a train wreck and the website will not be up and running by the end of November as Obama promised. In fact the administration is telling its supporters not to use the site and is trying to place work- a-rounds in to let people sign up and not use the website.

If Obama thought the individual health policy cancellations were something the second shoe is going to drop in August – October 2014 when company insurance policies begin receiving cancellation notices throwing over 100 million people off their company plans.

Obama and the Democrats knew back in 2010 both individual and company insurance plans would be cancelled due to ObamaCare and just continued to lie to the American people.

2014 is coming and it will make 2010 look like a church social for the Democrats. I only hope the Republicans don't dance on their dicks too much and win a veto proof majority to insure there is no ink in Obama's veto pen. Then we can get back to a sane domestic and foreign policy.

Miami Bob

11-29-13, 13:54

I am early 60's current plan with major carrier in a state with minimal regulation us $1968 monthly $6000/$12000. Deductibles in / out network; co-insurance, no mental health, dental I do have a health savings account. I have a $5,000,000. Lifetime cap. $1,000,000, CP is cheaper.

New policy for 1/1/2014 major carrier with all my doctors on network gold $950 month; and silver w / health saving account $860.

Both new policies have mental health and dental which was not offered by my prior carrier. Unlimited cap--I can get cancer or need by=pass surgery with complication and not run out of insurance coverage. Every year I have shopped.

If I went with a solid, but lower quality carrier, then could get simular plans $650/ $525. Monthly and have to give up most of my doctors. My doctors are highly quality, busy and will not deal with the second tier carriers who delay and play around with payments. Where I live there is almost no insurance regulation.

I have checked with about 20 people I know over 50 who all have similar stories and will get coverage without going near the federal website.

Agents still sell health insurance and there are private sites up and running.

Then purpose of the mandates is to push younger, more healthy people into buying coverage through economic incentives. Simular to the way the USA pushes wealthy agricultural companies to produce what fits into the national interestseg large payments to influence the crops they plant or don't plant.

Rock posted links to basic social science articles about what happens historically when the economic elites get too much of the wealth and power--society falls apart. If you only are thinking about your own pocket for the next few years, Rock's point makes no sense. If you are thinking that the noble experiment that is the USA is something important that we would like to see strengthened to last another 100 years+, then Rock's articles are very vital. Try to seach: distribution of wealth USA you will be shocked.

The only thing you need the federal site for is subsides. And to give the tv and media pundits something to fill up airtime.

Why don't the pundits just mention that private insurance agents can do the policy placements, help with applications and getting the subsidy info into the system.

Thank God up above for the affordible care act. I will save $14,000. A year for much better coverage.