American Politics during the Obama Presidency [Archive]

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Jackson

01-01-09, 02:00

Thread Starter.

Miami Bob

02-01-09, 14:27

I'm watching the Sunday morning new shows. Nancy Pelosi should be shot. Obama needs to give her and her crew a spanking. Neo- progressive [read hidden liberal] senator Charles Schummer even seemed embarassed by the self interest; political plundering; and lack of thoughtfullness of the trillion dollars the house is ready to pour down the toilet.

Thank god for the US Senate. Schummer indicates that the Senate bill will get back on track for Obama's goals: quick stimulus, housing, jobs and infrastructure--energy, health care information technology and reform.

For those of you not familiar with the structure of the US Government, the Senate requires a 60% vote to get anything serious done. This forces thoughtful debate---both extremes will not get their ways. The bill will not be centered on huge tax cuts for the investor class[rich] nor middleclass give aways nor pet projects for individual powerful politicians.

Now, John Kerry is on. Even he parts company with the Pelosi mafia. Need to fix the bill and get back on traCK---- WOW, could the usa political class actuall work together? and produce rational economic legislation to avoid a great depression. The republican senate is still held up on tax cuts for the wealthy investor class, but other wise tends to generally aggree with Kerry? Senator kay bailey hutchinson--republican leader--is talking about tax cuts for the wealthy to stimulate investment.

Same old far right wing solutions. She aggrees with much of the old bush agenda. Kerry is talking about fixing housing, jobs, stimulation of the economy--rebuilding old electric infrastructure---jobs and cash into the economy. She has quite a bit in common with kerry even though there are differences. I feel optimistic. There what might be termed an intelligent dialog.

It's been a long time without with such dialog.

Jackson

02-01-09, 14:55

Miami Bob,

It's not a stimulus package. It's a liberal pork fantasy bill masquerading as a stimulus bill.

If they really wanted to stimulate the economy, for less than this bill is projected to cost, they could instead give every person in the country a tax holiday for six months. That would reduce the payroll tax withholdings to zero and inject cash into the economy beginning immediately with every one's next paycheck.

Of course, they won't do that because they couldn't lord over how the money is spent AND because, unlike the so-called "tax rebate", it wouldn't give any money to people who don't pay taxes in the first place, and they need to find a way to send a check to all of their supporters.

Anyway, the USA economy will eventually correct itself and return to it's historic role as an incredible wealth-generating machine in the next couple of years, for which the Liberals will take the credit, not withstanding this anchor they are dropping in it's wake.

Thanks,

Jackson

Big Boss Man

02-01-09, 15:31

I think the wealthy have large capital gain losses to carry forward on their taxes that will last two and three years into the future. This year I was able sell out of long held investments in oil and Latin America stocks with no tax consequence because I could match the gains with other losses. What investment taxes am I paying that you want to give me a break on? However having said that I will gladly take any money that the Republicans give me if we are not going to balance the federal budget. I would prefer that the tax money be used to pay off the deficit because in the long-run I believe a balance budget leads to healthier economy. In a healthier economy it is easier for a non-rocket scientist like me to find good investments.

Also I think that most of us have tons of cash on our balance sheets. I am actually looking for investments. I think it is time to go back in fully invested. I recently put 5% of my stash into things like emerging market telecom (MICC, CHL) REIT senior debt (HCP, Regency and Simon) and debt from Sovereign Bank which is merging with Santander on March 31. I also bought some JNJ. You can get into any of these positions at the price I did or cheaper. People have cash, look at the interest rates on treasuries, they are just not investing because it hard to find interesting investments.

AllIWantIsLove

02-01-09, 16:03

<snip> People have cash. They are just not investing because it hard to find interesting investments.I've had "interesting" investments, thank you very much, and they have cost me a shit load of money. I am now looking for brain numbingly dull, but safe, investments!

Bob

Miami Bob

02-01-09, 16:45

The wait for the invisible hand of the market could be 6 to 10 years. Both moderate republicans and democrats are supporting Obama's basic approach with some basic policy disaggreements. The senate will NEVER pass a bill even remotely simular to PELOSI's folly.

Jackjack1

02-01-09, 16:52

The wait for the invisible hand of the market could be 6 to 10 years. Both moderate republicans and democrats are supporting obama's basic approach with.

Some basic policy disaggreements. The senate will NEVER pass a bill even remotely simular to PELOSI's folly.We'll see where we are when the dust settles.

Jack

Big Boss Man

02-01-09, 18:29

Miami Bob,

My problem is my boring investments such as Bank of America, Boeing, General Electric and Merck became interesting last year. I don't think I can tell the difference between boring and interesting anymore. If you can tell me the difference, I will gladly sit at your knee in rapturous reverence.:) I sincerely hope you and I both do well in the markets this year. I think I ran into you at Excedra a couple of years back. Take care.

Miami Bob

02-01-09, 21:36

I LOST much more money than I can afford last year. When I am talking about this stimulous package, I'm not thinking about what is best for my personal financial situation. I am affraid of major depression as one of the real possibilities. I believe that the moderates from both parties in the Senate will be thinking in a similar fashion.

I am gambling by keeping some money in the market: BP, COP with energy diversification and safe dividends. I will wait and energy must go up over the next year or two. LINN is interesting--an energy trust with a high dividend--my small position is up big, but I'm not selling because of the dividend. Copper bought when bottom fishing. I sold and re purchased a brazilian EFT at half the price. Looking at a China ETF, but not cheap enough yet. The Chinese have their own stimulus in place and will do more.

Gambling on some GS purchased on the cheap--they are the smartest guys in town. I may buy jpm--jaime dimon is the smartest ceo in the financial industry--it's not cheap enough now. I am reading and believing that GS, JPM and MS have taken almost all of the toxic garbage off their books. I think that we will retest the lows. These banks will survive and make lots of money in the future--which could be within the next year or years. As sid posted the research shows that you make your real money during unexcepted runs which are impossible to even pretend to time.

My largest position is MO----like getting paid to wait. High diviidend. Merck looks like a good place to nibble as we retest the lows. I'm watching celgene and have a small position in gild--biotech with a monopoly on hiv / aids.

I got stuck in Shaw Industries and I'm down sooooo far, but think that infrastructure plays are rational, so I'm still in part of my position which is way down. I won't add to it unless obama starts talking nuclear in a serious way. Foster wheeler.-I am watching and is probably a better way to play infrastructure as they are more diversified.

I have a small position in Rio which is also way down, but I'm not selling. China should recover early--I hope, then Rio and fcx should start to move--it will be a while. China is the major user of cooper and iron and these stocks are just soooooo cheap based upon the value of their assets or as possible take overs. I have a position PBR based on their huge mega offshore gas and oil finds and their future value which is not really on the books now. I will be sitting on dead PBS money for a while--no big dividend and third world risks---I'm either stupid or have balls or both. [I'm about 8% in energy in total of all positions]

My MCD is still up--small position. Same thing with a small position in YUM--cheap good eats and growing in China throughout the slow down. The Chinese love the fried chicken. Read their report--it is amasing what yum is doing internationally. MCD is predicting us$125, 000in extra revenue per store based upon coffee style drinks a la starbucks, but a almost half the price.

A couple of small positions in gold minners have been moving up. I actually pay attention when el alamo talks.

I am taking risk. I got killed and I hope that I am guessing right. I don't recomemd any one else follow anything I am doing. The pros may think that I'm nuts and I may be nuts. I am a diversified nut who is preying for a rational Stimulous package to push things along.

Would Obama please punch-out Nancy Pelosi and get Bidden working the senate.

Damman

02-01-09, 23:24

It has been a very expensive year for myself too. My first thought to recoup, hitch your wagon to the financials. Believed they would be the first to recover. Think I have dialed a wrong number: STT. Really have my doubts about that now. My feeling is Bank of America may go TU. Lewis is an idiot. Bite the bullet and let the cards fall where they may. We are just throwing good money after bad bailing these idiots out. I have a few toxic positions. Perhaps I should apply for some TARP money. This financial debacle is bigger than anyone is letting on, my feeling. About like the last time I got busted: How much have you had to drink sir? Two beers officer.

Know inflation does not seem a threat at the moment, however, if there is one certainty in this thing, double digit inflation is on the horizon. Got kind of beat up when I suggested GLD a few months back on this forum, but it has proven to be a good play. Cheap entry into gold may be AZK. The other thing I have been looking at is Platinum. Gold and Platinum are about to converge. Hard to believe. Good indication of how bad things are in the industrial world: Platinum. My thinking is, any signs of life in industrial production, Platinum may not be a bad play: AAUK. I like hard assets. Then there was good old I Bonds, adjusted semi annually for inflation. However, Treasury for some unknown reason changed the amount an individual could purchase a few years back to 5k per year. Guess they were too good of a deal for the average Joe. Only explanation I could come up with. They are a very liquid asset. Have problems with the liquidity of TIPS. My thing, secondary market. For Energy, liked what Miami Bob said, but my purchases have primarily been with Canadian Companies. Think Canada has the best run Economy on the Planet. It gives me that warm fuzzy feeling: ENB, IMO, NXY, CNQ. Best American oil company: OXY (Occidental) none better: my view. Good luck to everyone.

Exon123

02-02-09, 02:21

Buy the Oil companies, the Phone companies and the regulated Electric utilities all for the dividends and you'll be just fine.

Exon

Miami Bob

02-03-09, 12:14

of the house or Pelosi bill, but used more diplomatic language about getting back to the president's vision. That's why I asked for Obama to slap her down is his own subtile style and get Bidden working the senate. The senate will never pass a mess like the current house bill.

The house with a large majority traditionally does extreme stuff and the Senate acts as the gate keepers of compromise and moderation. Don't give up the ship, yet. I hope that I'm correct, else I have completely misread Obama and his economic advisers who seem to be much more moderate than the house of reps.

Sid, I fully aggree with your complaints. Stimulus is to turn away from depression, not everyones favorite self interest projects. It takes 60% vote in the Senate to get anything important done.

Jackson

02-03-09, 13:14

Is this Bill the type CHANGE you anticipated?Sidney,

This bill is EXACTLY the change that the Obama supporters voted for.

You know the mantra: Power to the people, redistribution of wealth, the nanny state, etc.

Jackson

Daddy Rulz

02-03-09, 17:39

Sidney,

This bill is EXACTLY the change that the Obama supporters voted for.

You know the mantra: Power to the people, redistribution of wealth, the nanny state, etc.

JacksonWe could return to the policies of the last 8 years, after all they worked really well. Didn't they?

Jackjack1

02-03-09, 18:09

Daddy Rulz

02-03-09, 18:55

I'm a Republican but can't stand what's happened over the last 8 years on our watch. We've lost our way. From a party perspective, I don't think it's a good time to be pointing fingers, it will get us nowhere. Time to work together and sweep the crap back into the toilet where it belongs.

JackI would be happy if the real conservatives stood up and reclaimed the Republican party myself. I think we are best governed with a balance of conservative and liberal ideology.

Honestly I don't see a lot of difference between the "parties" but I do think we have a president that understands America as the majority of us know it. Multi-cultural, hard working people. He had no silver spoon in his mouth and understands the plight of the working poor because he grew up as one.

I was behind the former president from Sept. 11 until the folly in Iraq started, I hope some of these knee jerk off Pubs can do the same.

Jackjack1

02-03-09, 19:16

Stimulus': Your Money for Illegals, Welfare Recipients, Arts, and Sex.

Just how outrageous is this shameful $819 billion stimulus?

For starters — and this will shock you — both the House and the Senate programs have a loophole that even gives illegal aliens cash payouts.

Here's how The Associated Press explained it: "Undocumented immigrants who are not eligible for a Social Security number can file tax returns with an alternative number. A House-passed version of the economic recovery bill, and one making its way through the Senate, would allow anyone with such a number, called an individual taxpayer identification number (TIN) to qualify for the tax credits."

In case you didn't know it, any illegal can get a TIN number from Social Security, no questions asked.

This means illegals who broke the law to get here will be eligible immediately for federal cash — up to $1,000!

It gets worse. Let me detail for you some facts from the "stimulus":

* More than $4 billion is earmarked for "neighborhood stabilization activities" — money that will go to groups like ACORN, which worked closely with the Obama campaign, the same group accused of massive voter fraud.

* Almost half of the proposed spending will directly benefit the Service Employees International Union, federal, state, and municipal employee unions, or other Democratic-controlled unions, according to writer Ben Stein.

* $600 million goes for news cars for top government bureaucrats.

* Obama promised major infrastructure projects — yet only 5 percent of all the money goes for this.

* $50 million for the National Endowment for the Arts.

* $75 million to fund anti-smoking programs.

* $650 million for the switch from analog television to digital.

* $335 million to help prevent the spread of sexually transmitted diseases.

* $600 million for "climate change" research programs.

This is just a small part of the long laundry list of trivial, weird, and simply outrageous programs being funded in the Obama stimulus bill, which goes on for 680 pages — so long no one in the House was believed to have read it before voting for it!I take it you agree with the Republicans, haha? In the case of the "illegals," I agree-there should be no handouts, but a little known fact that nobody seems to talk about is the amount of money that illegals put "back" into the system when the taxes taken out of their paychecks fails to go into their fake social security and other federal tax accounts. Substantial figure since McDonalds and the like employ a vast amount of illegal aliens.

Jack

Jackson

02-03-09, 20:15

We could return to the policies of the last 8 years, after all they worked really well. Didn't they?Seven years of strong economic growth, Al Qaeda beaten to a pulp, the liberation of 37 million people from a brutal dictatorship, an renewed respect internationally for American military power, and not a single terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11.

Yea, I'd easily return to the policies that resulted in all of the above.

Thanks,

Jackson

Jackjack1

02-03-09, 20:30

Seven years of strong economic growth, Al Qaeda beaten to a pulp, the liberation of 37 million people from a brutal dictatorship, an renewed respect internationally for American military power, and not a single terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11.

Yea, I'd easily return to the policies that resulted in all of the above.

Thanks,

JacksonJackson you're a cool dude, but have at it. This country is in the horrible economic state because of the last 8 years. This country is hated by most because of it's failed foreign policies. People in Iraq living under the "dictatorship" didn't ask to be saved by us. There were NO weapons of mass destruction, it was all a sham. Billions of dollars lost, thousands dead for what? No regulation covering our financial markets got us to where we are.

Sure, let's go back.

Jack

Jackjack1

02-03-09, 20:43

Jackson you're a cool dude, but have at it. This country is in the horrible economic state because of the last 8 years. This country is hated by most because of it's failed foreign policies. People in Iraq living under the "dictatorship" didn't ask to be saved by us. There were NO weapons of mass destruction, it was all a sham. Billions of dollars lost, thousands dead for what? No regulation covering our financial markets got us to where we are.

Sure, let's go back.

JackWhat's up with the Demos and tax evasion?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090203/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_killefer

Jack

El Perro

02-03-09, 20:59

What's up with the Demos and tax evasion?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090203/ap_on_go_pr_wh/obama_killefer

JackAgreed! PAY YOUR FUCKING TAXES! I'd like to think these assholes were protesting the policies of the past eight years by slacking on their taxes, but, uh, I just don't think so. And this garbage about somehow being unaware, please. I got a letter from the IRS a few months back informing me I owed them an extra $13! I'm guessing they send you letters when you owe 100 grand. Of course, if you didn't own up originally on some stuff, that's another kettle of fish, and you should have your ass deep fried for that as well.

Jackson

02-03-09, 23:43

Jackson you're a cool dude, but have at it. This country is in the horrible economic state because of the last 8 years.No, the economy was great for 7 years. It's been in a "horrible economic state" only for the past few months.

This country is hated by most because of it's failed foreign policies.You've been listening to too many leftist college students and equally leftist media. Try talking to some people in the business community.

People in Iraq living under the "dictatorship" didn't ask to be saved by us.ROTFLMAO! How exactly were they supposed to ask? By referendum?

There were NO weapons of mass destruction, it was all a sham.Personally, I didn't need that moral crutch anyway.

Billions of dollars lost, thousands dead for what?To liberate 36 million people from a brutal dictatorship. Did you miss those words in my last post?

No regulation covering our financial markets got us to where we are.We agree on this. I hold Bush personally responsible for not reining in the Dems as they were eliminated credit requirements and started loaning money to anybody with a pulse.

Thanks,

Jackson

Jackjack1

02-04-09, 01:41

No, the economy was great for 7 years. It's been in a "horrible economic state" only for the past few months.

Yes it's been great for 7 years, if you're a hedgefund, in oil or up until recently in the banking industry.

You've been listening to too many leftist college students and equally leftist media. Try talking to some people in the business community.

I'm a Republican, but a centrist, I don't like the jargon on either of the political extremes.

ROTFLMAO! How exactly were they supposed to ask? By referendum?

Personally, I didn't need that moral crutch anyway.

To liberate 36 million people from a brutal dictatorship. Did you miss those words in my last post?

Liberate? Why don't we liberate people from Zimbabwe, how about taking people out of the horrible grasp of Kim Jong-il in North Korea, what about the oppressed in Cuba, How about liberating Venezuela? Well, for one thing, they probably don't have oil or anything else we can get our little greedy hands on.

We agree on this. I hold Bush personally responsible for not reining in the Dems as they were eliminated credit requirements and started loaning money to anybody with a pulse.

Thanks,

JacksonWhat we agree on something lol?

Jack

Daddy Rulz

02-04-09, 12:07

Jax you guys really need to run Rush in 2112.

Jackjack the war cost Trillions not billions brother.

Any comments on this idea.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/bailout_executive_pay

QuakHunter

02-04-09, 12:48

Jackson's comments say it best:

I hold Bush personally responsible for not reining in the Dems as they were eliminated credit requirements and started loaning money to anybody with a pulse.

Thanks,

JacksonFor the sake of honesty let's drop the horseshit "Bush lied, people died" mantra. Let's also stop it with the no WMD bullcrap; 3300 tonnes of yellow-cake uranium in Iraq that went virtually unreported around election time is validation there was a substantive intent to develop WMDs and shows that Joseph Wilson wasn't very good at the intelligence business or is a lying sack of camel crap. Add in the fact that there are thousands of dead Kurds that serve as an example of a purposeful intent to use WMDs and that no WMD argument doesn't hold water.

Jackson's facts in a prior post regarding our economy are irrefutable. The economy tanked in the last year, not over eight. Root cause is simply the fact that credit was extended to people who had little probability or no intention of paying back the money they PERSONALLY committed themselves to pay.

The answer to what started this sounds very simple to me; the American dream was extended to people going all the way back to the Carter years and continued all the way through GW's two terms. Only the American Dream was not an "Earned" opportunity, it was an "Entitlement" program that we will be paying for over the next couple of generations. Nobody stood up to the Barney Franks, Clintons, ACORNs, Community "Reinvestment" people and others with differing motives and we took a collective elephant dick up our rear-end. That includes my beloved Republican Party representatives and senators in Congress.

All the snowball effects that came as a result of this entitlement program are the cleansing enema we experience right now.

Regarding the United States position as a world leader. You will only see what you look for; I know my dollars spend well in every country I visit and I wear my passion for my country proudly on my sleeve.

Or once again, some may not agree. Suerte.

Jackson

02-04-09, 12:54

Liberate? Why don't we liberate people from Zimbabwe, how about taking people out of the horrible grasp of Kim Jong-il in North Korea, what about the oppressed in Cuba, How about liberating Venezuela? Well, for one thing, they probably don't have oil or anything else we can get our little greedy hands on.All in good time, but first let's finish the job in Iraq.

BTW, how can we be characterized as "greedy" when we're paying full market price for every drop of Iraqi oil we receive?

The entire premise that we liberated Iraq because we wanted their oil is ridiculous. The fact is that if all we wanted was the oil, the Saddam would have glady sold us all the oil we wanted, and at a price that wouldn't have included re-building a country.

It must be wonderful to be a liberal, to live emotionally and unconstrained by the actual facts.

Thanks,

Jackson

El Perro

02-04-09, 12:59

Jackson's comments say it best:

For the sake of honesty let's drop the horseshit "Bush lied, people died" mantra. Let's also stop it with the no WMD bullcrap; 3300 tonnes of yellow-cake uranium in Iraq that went virtually unreported around election time is validation there was a substantive intent to develop WMDs and shows that Joseph Wilson wasn't very good at the intelligence business or is a lying sack of camel crap. Add in the fact that there are thousands of dead Kurds that serve as an example of a purposeful intent to use WMDs and that no WMD argument doesn't hold water.

Jackson's facts in a prior post regarding our economy are irrefutable. The economy tanked in the last year, not over eight. Root cause is simply the fact that credit was extended to people who had little probability or no intention of paying back the money they PERSONALLY committed themselves to pay.

The answer to what started this sounds very simple to me; the American dream was extended to people going all the way back to the Carter years and continued all the way through GW's two terms. Only the American Dream was not an "Earned" opportunity, it was an "Entitlement" program that we will be paying for over the next couple of generations. Nobody stood up to the Barney Franks, Clintons, ACORNs, Community "Reinvestment" people and others with differing motives and we took a collective elephant dick up our rear-end. That includes my beloved Republican Party representatives and senators in Congress.

All the snowball effects that came as a result of this entitlement program are the cleansing enema we experience right now.

Regarding the United States position as a world leader. You will only see what you look for; I know my dollars spend well in every country I visit and I wear my passion for my country proudly on my sleeve.

Or once again, some may not agree. Suerte.Yer a funny guy, but this post and some others on the board need to be put in a time capsule with the headline, "Dumb as a bag of hammers in 2009". Sorry brother, keep on plugging them quackers.

Jackjack1

02-04-09, 13:41

Bush didn't lie, he actually believes in the Easter Bunny and that Jack Bauer will save the world. It was Cheney and the gang that orchestrated this mess. Nobody has a real number as to how much we've spent in this sham of a war that we started but they're estimating at over a trillion.

I wonder what Jeb's up to these days?

Jack

El Perro

02-04-09, 13:56

I wonder what Jeb's up to these days?

JackI'm sure Jeb has got his hands full these days with his Queen-like wife and whackjob daughter. I wouldn't trade places with that guy for love or money. Plus, Dubya probably calls him "turdcutter" or "hiney hole".;)

Tessan

02-04-09, 13:57

Jackson's comments say it best:

For the sake of honesty let's drop the horseshit "Bush lied, people died" mantra. Let's also stop it with the no WMD bullcrap; 3300 tonnes of yellow-cake uranium in Iraq that went virtually unreported around election time is validation there was a substantive intent to develop WMDs and shows that Joseph Wilson wasn't very good at the intelligence business or is a lying sack of camel crap. Add in the fact that there are thousands of dead Kurds that serve as an example of a purposeful intent to use WMDs and that no WMD argument doesn't hold water.

SNip[.The fact that there was yellow cake does not mean anything. He had a nuclear reactor before the Israeli bombed it. It is normal to have yellow cake if you have a nuclear reactor. If he was working on a nuclear program when we invaded, then where are the hundred if not thousands of centrifuges need enrich the uranium? Iran has hundreds of centrifuges in a cascade trying to enrich uranium.

Eden cites the Associated Press concerning yellowcake uranium removed from Iraq recently. The article also mentions that the yellowcake uranium was under the control of the U. N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency "safeguard" since 1991. This was not the famous and fictitious yellowcake from Niger, which Bush used to scare the American people with even after the CIA told him the information was false.

He may have had a nuclear program before the Israeli bombed his reactor, but I do not think he was working on it when the US invaded. There was no urgent reason to invade Iraq. He was not massacring his people, he was not threatening to invade his neighbor.

The reason the major media has not taken up the story is, that since the yellowcake was under IEA safeguards since 1991, there is no real story there.

QuakHunter

02-04-09, 14:25

The fact that there was yellow cake does not mean anything. He had a nuclear reactor before the Israeli bombed it. It is normal to have yellow cake if you have a nuclear reactor. If he was working on a nuclear program when we invaded, then where are the hundred if not thousands of centrifuges need enrich the uranium? Iran has hundreds of centrifuges in a cascade trying to enrich uranium.

Eden cites the Associated Press concerning yellowcake uranium removed from Iraq recently. The article also mentions that the yellowcake uranium was under the control of the U. N.'s International Atomic Energy Agency "safeguard" since 1991. This was not the famous and fictitious yellowcake from Niger, which Bush used to scare the American people with even after the CIA told him the information was false.

He may have had a nuclear program before the Israeli bombed his reactor, but I do not think he was working on it when the US invaded. There was no urgent reason to invade Iraq. He was not massacring his people, he was not threatening to invade his neighbor.

The reason the major media has not taken up the story is, that since the yellowcake was under IEA safeguards since 1991, there is no real story there.That is kind of like the argument, "I smoked pot but I didn't inhale".

I'm sure the unbiased information from the ASSOCIATED PRESS is totally reliable (Excuse me while I choke on my own vomit) The WEAPONS GRADE yellow cake that was in iraq's POSSESSION was hidden from inspectors for years and was discovered covertly. It was not under IEA control, if it was how did Joseph Wilson miss it? His directive was expanded beyond the Niger visit; it was in his purview to find evidence of yellow cake uranium.

What was the yellow cake uranium being moved around for? Saddam could have also complied with UN sanctions and demonstrated he was not going to massacre MORE people and that he was not going to invade ANOTHER country and remained the loving, benevolent leader that he was and avoided the invasion.

Regarding no centrifuges for refining and enrichment; why do you need them if you already have the product for bombs? If there was an ongoing power related program there would have been an investment in a continued supply of uranium, henceforth centrifuges.

Again, we can see this any way we want. I am not so obstinate that I cannot see the consequences of the Iraq war and its toll economically, socially and personally.

It's just I think it is totally disingenuous to try and associate the war, or George Bush's character as the root cause of our current economic collapse.

Extremely Bad Judgement? Yes, that is the argument one can make. You will get no disagreement from me.

QuakHunter

02-04-09, 15:00

The following is a letter by some guy who has an interesting plan as a result of the economic stimulus discussion. Well written and to the point.

To All My Valued Employees,

There have been some rumblings around the office about the future of this company, and more specifically, your job. As you know, the economy has changed for the worse and presents many challenges. However, the good news is this: The economy doesn't pose a threat to your job. What does threaten your job however, is the changing political landscape in this country.

However, let me tell you some little tidbits of fact which might help you decide what is in your best interests.

First, while it is easy to spew rhetoric that casts employers against employees, you have to understand that for every business owner there is a back story. This back story is often neglected and overshadowed by what you see and hear. Sure, you see me park my Mercedes outside. You've seen my big home at last years Christmas party. I'm sure; all these flashy icons of luxury conjure up some idealized thoughts about my life.

However, what you don't see is the back story.

I started this company 28 years ago. At that time, I lived in a 300 square foot studio apartment for 3 years. My entire living apartment was converted into an office so I could put forth 100% effort into building a company, which by the way, would eventually employ you.

My diet consisted of Ramen Pride noodles because every dollar I spent went back into this company. I drove a rusty Toyota Corolla with a defective transmission. I didn't have time to date. Often times, I stayed home on weekends, while my friends went out drinking and partying. In fact, I was married to my business - hard work, discipline, and sacrifice.

Meanwhile, my friends got jobs. They worked 40 hours a week and made a modest $50K a year and spent every dime they earned. They drove flashy cars and lived in expensive homes and wore fancy designer clothes. Instead of hitting the Nordstrom's for the latest hot fashion item, I was trolling through the discount store extracting any clothing item that didn't look like it was birthed in the 70's. My friends refinanced their mortgages and lived a life of luxury. I, however, did not. I put my time, my money, and my life into a business with a vision that eventually, some day, I too, will be able to afford these luxuries my friends supposedly had.

So, while you physically arrive at the office at 9am, mentally check in at about noon, and then leave at 5pm, I don't. There is no "off" button for me. When you leave the office, you are done and you have a weekend all to yourself. I unfortunately do not have the freedom. I eat, and breathe this company every minute of the day. There is no rest. There is no weekend.

There is no happy hour. Every day this business is attached to my hip like a 1 year old special-needs child. You, of course, only see the fruits of that garden - the nice house, the Mercedes, the vacations. You never realize the back story and the sacrifices I've made.

Now, the economy is falling apart and I, the guy that made all the right decisions and saved his money, have to bail-out all the people who didn't.

The people that overspent their paychecks suddenly feel entitled to the same luxuries that I earned and sacrificed a decade of my life for.

Yes, business ownership has is benefits but the price I've paid is steep and not without wounds.

Unfortunately, the cost of running this business, and employing you, is starting to eclipse the threshold of marginal benefit and let me tell you.

Why:

I am being taxed to death and the government thinks I don't pay enough. I have state taxes. Federal taxes. Property taxes. Sales and use taxes. Payroll taxes. Workers compensation taxes. Unemployment taxes. Taxes on taxes. I have to hire a tax man to manage all these taxes and then guess what? I have to pay taxes for employing him. Government mandates and regulations and all the accounting that goes with it, now occupy most of my time. On Oct. 15th, I wrote a check to the US Treasury for $288,000 for quarterly taxes. You know what my "stimulus" check was? Zero. Nada. Zilch.

The question I have is this: Who is stimulating the economy? Me, the guy who has provided 14 people good paying jobs and serves over 2,200,000 people per year with a flourishing business? Or, the single mother sitting at home pregnant with her fourth child waiting for her next welfare check? Obviously, government feels the latter is the economic stimulus of this country.

The fact is, if I deducted (Read: Stole) 50% of your paycheck you'd quit and you wouldn't work here. I mean, why should you? That's nuts. Who wants to get rewarded only 50% of their hard work? Well, I agree which is why your job is in jeopardy.

Here is what many of you don't understand. To stimulate the economy you need to stimulate what runs the economy. Had suddenly government mandated to me that I didn't need to pay taxes, guess what? Instead of depositing that $288,000 into the Washington black-hole, I would have spent it, hired more employees, and generated substantial economic growth. My employees would have enjoyed the wealth of that tax cut in the form of promotions and better salaries. But you can forget it now.

When you have a comatose man on the verge of death, you don't defibrillate and shock his thumb thinking that will bring him back to life, do you? Or, do you defibrillate his heart? Business is at the heart of America and always has been. To restart it, you must stimulate it, not kill it.

Suddenly, the power brokers in Washington believe the poor of America are the essential drivers of the American economic engine. Nothing could be further from the truth and this is the type of change you can keep.

So where am I going with all this?

It's quite simple.

If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, my reaction will be swift and simple. I fire you. I fire your co-workers. You can then plead with the government to pay for your mortgage, your SUV, and your child's future. Frankly, it isn't my problem any more.

Then, I will close this company down, move to another country, and retire. You see, I'm done. I'm done with a country that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, will be my citizenship.

So, if you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the economy; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country, steamrolled the constitution, and will have changed its landscape forever.

If that happens, you can find me sitting on a beach, retired, and with no employees to worry about.

Signed,

Your Boss

Tessan

02-04-09, 15:09

That is kind of like the argument, "I smoked pot but I didn't inhale".

I'm sure the unbiased information from the ASSOCIATED PRESS is totally reliable (Excuse me while I choke on my own vomit) The WEAPONS GRADE yellow cake that was in iraq's POSSESSION was hidden from inspectors for years and was discovered covertly. It was not under IEA control, if it was how did Joseph Wilson miss it? His directive was expanded beyond the Niger visit; it was in his purview to find evidence of yellow cake uranium.You are confusing two different things. Plutonium may have been found according to Fox. Plutonium is always weapons grade, that's why it is so controlled. Plutonium does not occur naturally. Uranium does. There is no way Iraq can convert the Yellow Cake to Plutonium, unless they had a nuclear reactor running, that's why the Israeli bomb their only reactor.

I don't think it was enough for a nuclear weapon, or it would have made more headlines. It's probably small amounts made by doing experiments producing fission. Probably in preparation for the nuclear reactor, which would have been able to make them a bomb every year or 2. But since it was destroyed, don't think they could make much. To make amounts useable for a Nuke, it can take a large nuclear reactor 1-2 years to make enough for one bomb. With small experiments it would take tens of thousands of years.

Lets see if they say how much Plutonium there was. I bet it's less then a pound. It's probably less then an oz. it might be only a few grams. my guess, but i will not bet on it, (a pound is safe) is its less then a gram.

Jackjack1

02-04-09, 15:41

You are confusing two different things. Plutonium may have been found according to Fox. Plutonium is always weapons grade, that's why it is so controlled. Plutonium does not occur naturally. Uranium does. There is no way Iraq can convert the Yellow Cake to Plutonium, unless they had a nuclear reactor running, that's why the Israeli bomb their only reactor.

I don't think it was enough for a nuclear weapon, or it would have made more headlines. It's probably small amounts made by doing experiments producing fission. Probably in preparation for the nuclear reactor, which would have been able to make them a bomb every year or 2. But since it was destroyed, don't think they could make much. To make amounts useable for a Nuke, it can take a large nuclear reactor 1-2 years to make enough for one bomb. With small experiments it would take tens of thousands of years.

Lets see if they say how much Plutonium there was. I bet it's less then a pound. It's probably less then an oz. It might be only a few grams. My guess, but I will not bet on it, (a pound is safe) is its less then a gram.I hope that I can close up this thread by saying that we're going to have to agree to disagree. Always two sides and we'll never hear the right story. Plus I don't want to get into a pissing contest with Jackson, I'm positive that his dick is bigger.

Jack

QuakHunter

02-04-09, 17:44

You are confusing two different things. Plutonium may have been found according to Fox. Plutonium is always weapons grade, that's why it is so controlled. Plutonium does not occur naturally. Uranium does. There is no way Iraq can convert the Yellow Cake to Plutonium, unless they had a nuclear reactor running, that's why the Israeli bomb their only reactor.

I don't think it was enough for a nuclear weapon, or it would have made more headlines. It's probably small amounts made by doing experiments producing fission. Probably in preparation for the nuclear reactor, which would have been able to make them a bomb every year or 2. But since it was destroyed, don't think they could make much. To make amounts useable for a Nuke, it can take a large nuclear reactor 1-2 years to make enough for one bomb. With small experiments it would take tens of thousands of years.

Lets see if they say how much Plutonium there was. I bet it's less then a pound. It's probably less then an oz. It might be only a few grams. My guess, but I will not bet on it, (a pound is safe) is its less then a gram.I like my version of the facts. They suit my story much better.

I heard MacGyver was the one enriching the yellow-cake into plutonium with a vibrator and left over wet naps from a privado.

Pay your taxes everyone. We are going to need the money.

Tessan

02-04-09, 19:15

I like my version of the facts. They suit my story much better.

I heard MacGyver was the one enriching the yellow-cake into plutonium with a vibrator and left over wet naps from a privado.

Pay your taxes everyone. We are going to need the money.You cannot convert one element into another, without fission or Fusion. You can vibrate it all you want, read a physics textbook. With a centrifuge you can separate heavier isotopes from lighter ones, but you cannot change Uranium to Plutonium. Or turn lead into gold. You can turn lead into gold, with fission, but the gold is radioactive and cost much more to make, then what gold sells for. You can vibrate the lead all you want, you not getting gold or Uranium to Plutonium.

Tessan

02-04-09, 19:43

The Fox article on finding weapons grade plutonium, I took a quick look at before was old (Friday, April 11, 2003. I missed it, it was in small print), I did not look at the date on the article when I read it quickly before. I am unable to find anything else on plutonium. It must have turn out not too be true, since I cannot find any follow-ups at all, anywhere on the web.

If it was weapons grade Uranium, I cannot find anything either on google news. My guess the stuff they are talking about now is just Yellow Cake. Which usually means the yellow power you get after leaching the Uranium from Uranium ore, the powder likes to cake together, therefore the name Yellow Cake. The Isotopes have to be separated before you can get anything usable in most nuclear reactors. That is the process Iran is trying to master, with the centrifuge stuff they are using.

QuakHunter

02-04-09, 21:31

The Fox article on finding weapons grade plutonium, I took a quick look at before was old (Friday, April 11, 2003. I missed it, it was in small print) I did not look at the date on the article when I read it quickly before. I am unable to find anything else on plutonium. It must have turn out not too be true, since I cannot find any follow-ups at all, anywhere on the web.

If it was weapons grade Uranium, I cannot find anything either on google news. My guess the stuff they are talking about now is just Yellow Cake. Which usually means the yellow power you get after leaching the Uranium from Uranium ore, the powder like to cake together, therefore the name Yellow Cake. The Isotopes have to be separated before you can get anything usable in most nuclear reactors. That is the process Iran is trying to master, with the centrifuge stuff they are using.Tessan,

I am not in a position to compromise my super top secret spy clearance and how I definitely know I am right. But my sources via the KGB and People magazine support my point and you have to trust me. The security of our country and the free world is at hand.

You seem like a pretty good dude even after laying all that super high tech science isotope fission, fusion crap on me. I was talking about MacGyver making shit with vibrators and cum soaked rags. I give; you have Nobel prize winning scientist stuff on your side.

Let's just pull out of the shit of an economic cesspool we are in and keep the dollar strong so we can stimulate the Argentina chica economy.

Keep hope alive!

Miami Bob

02-05-09, 02:24

I am really curious if Obama can do what he has spoken of: get a stimulus package out of congress and save his political wish list for after it seems secure that we are not headed into a serious depression. It is obvious that the leadership of the Democratic house doesn't get it.

Over the next few weeks we will see what happens as it unfolds.

Miami Bob

02-07-09, 02:43

Miami Bob

02-10-09, 01:00

It still has too much of the democrat's political wish list in it, rather than STIMULATION. I want to see infrastructure projects--what happened? Natural gas for electricity generation? JOBS? But it is still better than the house bill.

Exon123

02-12-09, 20:19

http://www.bornagainamerican.org/, interesting little tune at this time in our history.

Exon

Daddy Rulz

02-13-09, 02:43

http://www.bornagainamerican.org/, interesting little tune at this time in our history.

ExonWhat is up with that?

http://freethought.mbdojo.com/foundingfathers.html

Otherwise a cool song though.

BadMan

02-17-09, 21:01

And here I thought he was the Terminator.

http:/ news. Bbc. Co. Uk /2/ hi / business /7893965. Stm.

Cash-strapped California is to start notifying 20,000 state workers that they may lose their jobs.

A spokesman for Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger made the announcement after California lawmakers failed to approve a $40bn (£28.2bn) budget.

California, the world's eighth biggest economy, has been hit by the housing crisis, unemployment and falling consumer spending.

The jobs on the government payroll would be cut in June.

It would be done in preparation for the next fiscal year, which starts in July.

"In the absence of a budget, the governor has a responsibility to realise state savings any way he can," said Aaron McLear, a spokesman for Republican governor Schwarzenegger.

"This is unfortunately a necessary decision."

The budget would include spending cuts and tax increases to close the state's budget deficit.

California has already laid off state workers for two days a month, put 2,000 public projects on hold and delayed tax refunds.

The state controller predicts California will run out of cash by the end of February if lawmakers do not solve the budget crisis.

BadMan

02-17-09, 21:49

I thought all presidents got "on the job" training, no?

The stock market continues to decline. Surely he is responsible for some of it due to his terrible poor plans and appointments like Geithner, Summers, Daschle, mas. O's stupid judgements leave much to be desired! You got On Job Training CHANGE. We are all suffering!

Jackson

02-19-09, 11:27

I thought all presidents got "on the job" training, no?John McCain wouldn't have needed any "on-the-job training".

Jackson

02-19-09, 11:31

Can his supporters explain this?Sid,

Obviously, I had a different idea as to who should be in the President's office, but Obama had repeatedly stated during his candidacy that he thought that Afghanistan was the true battlefield and that he intended to escalate our military presence there.

Thanks,

Jackson

Daddy Rulz

02-19-09, 11:46

Sid,

Obviously, I had a different idea as to who should be in the President's office, but Obama had repeatedly stated during his candidacy that he thought that Afghanistan was the true battlefield and that he intended to escalate our military presence there.

Thanks,

JacksonIt was a plank of his platform.

El Perro

02-19-09, 13:08

We are taking sides in a drug war that no one will ever win!I hate to think it or say it, but this is probably true. No easy answers or solutions but to leave the entire area to the poppy boys and Islamic lunatics. If the USA had more support from others, which the Obama administration is supposed to be working on-good luck, I would be more positive. Without more support, and maybe even with it, this is likely a no win quagmire for years and years to come.

Umm, El Sid and I agreeing. Always a little frightening.;)

Daddy Rulz

02-23-09, 23:05

Punter 127

02-24-09, 04:48

Jax you will fucking love this!

0That may be your best post ever Daddy! :rolleyes:

Daddy Rulz

02-24-09, 13:33

That may be your best post ever Daddy!:rolleyes:It was supposed to be a link to a flash game called "Escape the Bay" and you got to slingshot Arabs over the fence at Gitmo. They got exploded by landmines and screamed "Death to America." To bad the url didn't post. All you country motherfuckers woulda loved it.

Seaman

02-24-09, 14:11

It was supposed to be a link to a flash game called "Escape the Bay" and you got to slingshot Arabs over the fence at Gitmo. They got exploded by landmines and screamed "Death to America." To bad the url didn't post. All you country motherfuckers woulda loved it.Post the URL again, but not as the first or only sentence in the post. Then it should work.

Daddy Rulz

02-24-09, 14:49

Post the URL again, but not as the first or only sentence in the post. Then it should work.Here it is.

http://www.flashrolls.com/skill-games/Escape-the-Bay-Flash-Game.htm

QuakHunter

02-25-09, 15:22

Obama will set the clock back decades. America is the bastion of freedom. The peace of the world depends on the strength of America, and its weakness translates into the triumph of terrorism and victory of rogue nations. It is no wonder that Ahmadinejad, Hugo Chavez, the Castrists, the Hezbollah, the Hamas, the lawyers of the Guantanamo terrorists and virtually all sworn enemies of America are so thrilled by the prospect of their man in the White House. America is on the verge of destruction. There is no insanity greater than electing a pathological narcissist as president.In the words of Lili Von Schtupp from Blazing Saddles, "It's twue, it's twue. It's twue"

My hope was I was wrong about him; this guy hates everything I believe. Foremost among them is the belief of self reliance and individual success.

Seaman

02-25-09, 15:26

So Dr. Sam Vaknin did not write this article.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/vaknin.asp

But... That does not mean it is not true. (Although I have not read the whole post, I think the moment the "article" is using a name of another person to justify its trustworthiness, 99.99% of the time the article is full of sh*t)

El Queso

02-25-09, 15:37

El Perro

02-25-09, 16:06

Not only that, but I doubt there are many reputable psychologists that would risk their name making a diagnosis on a person (particulary so high-profile) without actually spending time with and interviewing that person, as well as those who know that person.

And here (I think) is his site:

http://samvak.tripod.com/

It looks like the same sort of site that sells all sorts of shit from penile enhancement to weight loss, etc.

And I couldn't read the whole thing. Whatever happened to paragraphing? Very difficult to read at best.Exactly-no self respecting psychotherapist would be public, particularly with such a diagnosis. And EVEN MORE so if he or she had evaluated the patient. Can you say mega LAWSUIT? This kind of crap is published by people with an axe to grind and / or people desperate for attention, and maybe the money that might come with it. Not to mention that the "diagnosis" is ludicrous to begin with.

Sidney, please exercise some restraint! What incredible rubbish!

Miami Bob

02-26-09, 03:10

Please get some new spin on your hatred. It is becoming boring. Dick morris? Quoting him again?

Let's turn to some sort of new angle. You are a bright man. But you are repeating yourself. I do respect your right to hate the president. You have the right to repeat your hatred as many ways as you please.

There is a debate beginning on the sec bringing back the up-tick rule. The fed chairman actually spoke about it in his speach today. Sid is a professional securities trader w / lots of savy. This rule was first put in place by Joe Kennedy--JFK's father, when he was FDR's SEC chairman.

Many historians blame the large number of bank failures in the early 1930's on short sellers beating the bank stocks to death. BAD news. Scare the heck out of everyone. Runs on the banks and the bank stock prices get pounded down every day without let-up. So joe kennedy imposes a requirement that you cannot sell short a stock without waiting for the stock to up-tick[go up] before another short sale can be made. This rule remained in place since it started thru all the other presidents including such free market kind of guys like regan and nixon. Our last president--with his harvard mba--let the rule be dropped. The fed president implied that the rule might be re-instated to prevent the dailey punding and manipulation of bank stocks which have enough of their own real fundimental problems.

I am hoping that Sid might comment on something positive about Bush leaving and having some new faces in town and possibly at the SEC.

Sid--I aggree that the new secretary of the treasury has no idea--he is clue- less and scaring the S__T out of everyone. I can't imagine what he is doing or even more interesting--what is his actually intention when this endless barrage of dumb garbage pours out of his mouth.

It would be good to hear from you. You are more knowledgable than most about the stock markets. What role, if any, does the lack of the up-tick rule play in the destruction of capital today?

Sid--do your thing, please!

Big Travel Guy

02-26-09, 16:05

MB, you didn't ask for anyone else's opinion, but I'll jump in, just in case it's helpful, as a career institutional stockbroker and mutual fund manager.

I think the uptick rule is a good one, and I would like to see it restored. I did not understand what the value of eliminating it was supposed to be.

I am in favor of short selling as a means to maintain orderly, fair, and liquid markets. It does not, in and of itself, mean bad things for market values. Every share of stock that is borrowed and sold short is a share that needs to be bought back at some point. Hence, it is a creator of demand for the stock, at some (uncertain) time in the future.

By having to wait for a stock to trade at a higher price than the last, different previous sales price, (which is what the uptick rule calls for) it assures that only stocks where there is at least some demand for them can be sold short, and it means that you can't easily institute a "bear raid".

The way a bear raid works is that you keep selling the borrowed shares lower, and lower, and lower, without any restaint. When you let people do this, you give them an incentive to do it, and profit in an unseemly manner, because by starting to sell the shares when they are higher, then driving them down very low, they are guaranteed to have an average sales price above where the stock eventually drops. They are thus guaranteed a profit, especially as desperate sellers, perhaps with margin calls, or violation of debt capital covenants or capital requirements, or stunned by just plain fear of the stock going to zero, are forced to sell their own, depressed shares (that they actually own) at rock bottom prices for liquidity. This is NOT an efficient capital market at work, it's a kind of a fear-driven ponzi scheme in reverse. People that wouldn't want to sell at depressed prices are forced to, and the short seller, who is really just a market manipulator, profits.

Anyway, short selling is ok, bear raiding is not ok. I am for the uptick rule.

Hope this is of some value to you, if you agree with it.

BTG

Miami Bob

02-27-09, 00:30

Would you share a little bit of your experince and knowledge with all of us?

BTG tends to agree with my point of view that some regualtion might help slow the destruction of capital.

I would love to see the SEC to have the funding to investigate some of the financial nonsense and prosecute or refer to the us attorney violators and wall street guys who committed fraud and made tens or hundreds of milllions of dollars. As stan the man, who used to work at the sec told us, the sec under the last president barely had money to buy toner for the photocopiers. If you don't believe in regulation, don't waste money on funding regulators.

Sidney?

Tiny12

02-27-09, 04:17

MB, you didn't ask for anyone else's opinion, but I'll jump in, just in case it's helpful, as a career institutional stockbroker and mutual fund manager.

I think the uptick rule is a good one, and I would like to see it restored. I did not understand what the value of eliminating it was supposed to be.I've sold short maybe 20 different securities when the uptick rule was in effect, so don't have a lot of experience. But I've never once failed to fill an order on account of the uptick rule. And in several instances I sold fairly illiquid securities short, where on a few days I accounted for a significant % of the trading. Regulation SHO and other prohibitions against naked shorting do have teeth, but the uptick rule seems to me to be meaningless.

Active traders can get around this anyway. A trader might buy 2000 shares of ABC and sell short 2000 shares of ABC. Then when he decides to go short, he just gets rid of their long position and keeps the short position. He doesn't need to wait for an uptick. I believe if you're classified as a professional trader you're violating securities regulations when you do this, but if you have two brokerage accounts nobody is going to find out.

Short sellers may have made life a little more difficult for the banks, by raising the cost of equity capital. But it would be ridiculous to blame this crisis on them. The banks were the ones that became overleveraged, got into positions they didn't understand, and were just plain lazy and greedy (I. E. Giving out mortgages and credit cards to people who would never be able to pay them back)

Miami Bob

03-02-09, 01:41

You'll leave enough to spoil your kid. The tax changes will not change your life in any way. There is an huge revenue short fall. WE all know that you disaggree and hate the president and everything he stands for or dreams of and even hate the lint that is brushed off of his suite. I am sorry that I started this thread--there is no discussion--only sid's hatred and spleen.

JACKSON--PLEASE wipe out the whole thing. Sid has the right to post anything that wants......I just don't want to be part of it.

ps sid thanks for some of the great reataurant suggestions!

Gato Hunter

03-02-09, 01:56

Sidney,

Post something about putas instead of your cut and paste spam.

Why do we have to talk about politics here? It seems like its a pissing contest that will never end. The worlds problems won't get fixed here.

Tiny12

03-02-09, 04:35

You'll leave enough to spoil your kid. The tax changes will not change your life in any way. There is an huge revenue short fall. There's a huge revenue shortfall because politicians are wasting our money on pork masquerading as stimulus. The tax changes aren't going to increase revenue significantly, compared to the size of the deficits we're running up right now. They're just the Democrats' way of punishing the Republicans' constituencies.

Gato Hunter

03-02-09, 12:12

I would venture to say that 2600 of those are copy and paste bullshit spam that has zero relevance to acquiring chicas.

Besides lots of the mongers I have met have patted me on the back for sharing that story of the streetwalker for the entertainment value alone. Not to mention the 10 or so newer mongers this trip alone that I personaly have taken and shown around town.

QuakHunter

03-02-09, 13:02

The Board has many valuable purposes besides 'acquiring chicas'!I guess the posts about Politics before Obama where every critical item laid out about GWB were all OK.

As Reagan said, "Facts are a stubborn thing". The 12-year lows in the markets are being experienced right now and they are back to the levels during Bubba's presidency. GWB spent like a drunken sailor and deserved to have his ass removed in the exact way the US voters did, but you cannot deny the six or seven years of prosperity and growth under his watch. That "eight-years of failed policies" argument doesn't hold water.

IMHO it is absolutely disingenuous to defend the actions of this administration as anything more than eight years of pent up Democratic rage and class envy.

But Sidney, the best part here is still about acquiring chicas. Your economic and financial insight is a distant second or third.

Miami Bob

03-03-09, 03:35

I really hoped the Sid and others might have a conversation about our new president and what he is attempting to do. No one is going to change anyone else world view here. The strangest thing is that many of the people who have the most divergent points of view are actually friends who enjoy each others' company except when discussing politics.

I guess that truths that our grandparents taught us as kids once again hold true:

Don't talk about politics nor religion.

I like Sid and enjoy his company and would rather have his friendship than continue this line of discussion. Might we aggree to disaggree? Apparently.

Dialog is impossible I don't love everything about the big O and some of what is going on now is shocking to me. I voted for him and would do it again.

His policies look like that they will impact my retirement plans and impact my standard of living in the future. You may disaggree, but I honestly believe that.

Neo-con's would have eventually destroyed the republic.

Our politics in the usa tend to follow a dialectical pattern---discused by hegel and then carl marx--they swing back and forth to either tail of the bell curve. I though that in the big O there might have been a pull towards the middle like we saw with Clinton. I haven't made up my mind about him yet. The left wing of the Democratic party, to my point of view, is excercising too much control. This is unfortuate considering the extremist right wing shift in the Republican party since regan. The middle ground seems to have become lost. W.'s grandfather, Prescot, was a moderate and some thought liberal Republican. Today, Nixon would be considerred a liberal by most Republicans.

Maybe I am full of shit and take whatever I say with a grain of salt. The state of this tread mirrors what is going on in the USA today: anger, closemindedness, hate and an absence of dialog.

Sid--I know you and your personal point of view is generally in that middle ground. Why all of this strong emotion? Your postings don't to seem to belong to the man that I know and respect. Maybe we should just stop these political postings?

PS--Jackson I hate your editing software. It will not permit me to write what I want to write nor edit in the manner I prefer.

BadMan

03-03-09, 10:23

On second thought MB,

Maybe we should keep the thread simply for it's entertainment value. The bickering alone is priceless.

As long as we remember it's just the internet and don't take it too seriously, I think we will be fine.

It's when people start going ape shit that things get ugly.

We should start an " ape shit " prevention program and leave well enough alone.

Regards,

BM

Jackson

03-03-09, 11:48

But you O lovers are in a state of denial. At this early stage, everything O has done so far is an unmitigated disaster! Get your heads out of the sand and get objective! Believe it or not, ever since October, when it appeared O was going to win, the stock market has been discounting the disaster of O! ''The tape doesn't lie!I agree with you Sid, but you can't reason with those who are entranced by the hypnotic powers of "the Messiah".

Jackson

03-03-09, 12:07

PS--Jackson I hate your editing software. It will not permit me to write what I want to write nor edit in the manner I prefer.MB,

Here's how to by-pass the text cleanup script: Post some complete gibberish, then edit your post however you wish.

In other words, the text cleanup script is not invoked after editing a post, only after the initial upload.

Thanks,

Jackson

Member #4112

03-03-09, 13:30

Every time the Caramel One opens his mouth the market goes down and so does my 401k.

Moved everything into Cash until we hit the bottom, where ever that is. I thought everything was suppose to turn around once the Caramel One took over.

I don't think you can jump start the market or industry by kicking them in the teeth and then expecting them to react favorably. Looks to me like a "The floggings will cease when moral improves" sort of thing.

Just my 2 cents

QuakHunter

03-03-09, 15:07

Big Travel Guy

03-09-09, 21:29

From Big Travel Guy here, the self-appointed "moderate", to the right of Miami Bob, to the left of Jackson, well to the left of Sidney, but still willing to join the "cut and paste" style of Sid!

Here are two recent articles that I think are right on. They are long, and thus, not light reading. The first is from the center (which means well to the right of Obama these days, as there isn't much to the left of him. Soundly critiquing Obamanomics, the second is from the left, soundly critiquing those who seem to hold Herbert Hoover-esque politics as a viable alternative to the mess we're in.

(not sure if the format here is that you can just click on these links, or if you'll need to cut and paste the URL's in your browser)

Enjoy.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2009/03/president_double_talk.html

http://www.tnr.com/booksarts/story.html?id=82c53220-7594-4ece-a136-a3b2f54243ec&1

Damman

03-17-09, 14:15

Jackson

03-17-09, 15:26

Like I said all during the campaign, the Messiah has no executive experience and no executive management skills, and thus he is not qualified for the job of being the country's CEO.

The man has never managed so much as a hot dog stand, for Christ's sake.

His lack of managerial experience is beginning to show all over the place and in a plethora of smaller mistakes besides the two that are documented in the Morris piece. However, Obama worshipers may rest assured that the liberal media may be counted on to continue to gloss over these future management blunders.

Stay tuned, there's certainly more to come.

Thanks,

Jackson

QuakHunter

03-17-09, 15:31

President O or any other Presidential candidate for that matter does / did not have a snow balls chance in hell of saving the American People from themselves. The greediest people on the planet, which includes myself. However, unlike most draft-dodging BS politicians, the man's heart is in the right place and for sure was not born with a silver spoon up his ass. Unbelievable, He may have virtues. How can he possibly survive this bullshit. For this old fart, he is my man. All these pill poppen Limbaugh MFers can kiss my lily white ass. Go Obama. Freedom of speech, I love it.

Now I feel better, have a good day everyone.I love freedom of speech, too. Congatulations on exercising your right to express it.

Since my family and I have actually defended your right to have this freedom, please allow me to retort.

I'm glad Obama's heart is in the right place. So is mine, I just feel he is wrong on almost every count and he has demonstrated that every value I was raised with concerning self reliance, hard work, dedication, patriotism, nationalism and accountability is not held in high esteem by your man.

I have never popped a pill, as you labeled people who aren't of the same political ilk as you. But, I have had sex with several Mothers so I guess the MFer tag sticks.

Limbaugh is an entertainer, that's it. Your party elected and ran Al Franken so who's lacking credibility? Obama wants to spend more time targeting Limbaugh's comments than worrying about the task at hand. More smoke and mirrors; Limbaugh only wants Obama to fail in his evident intent to pay for social programs, that have failed repeatedly, at the expense of earners who drive the economy. If that makes me a "pill poppen (Popping) Limbaugh MFer", then I guess your assessment is correct.

The country I live in is great. The people that I associate with are good, honest people that will bring us out of the crisis facing us and we will be fine.

I'm going to take a pass on kissing your lily white ass at this time. You described yourself as an "Old Fart". I'm sure you and the AARP gang will enjoy greatly from the burden that will be put upon the next generations while you bask in the benefits derived from others. The freedom to speak your mind works both ways.

Since I have that right, Obama does have a silver spoon. It's just that it was a spoon paid by others taxes that got him educated, paid for his law degrees and funded every single "job" as a "Communiy Organizer" that he has held.

Thinking about it now, your comment " President O or any other Presidential candidate for that matter does / did not have a snow balls chance in hell of saving the American People from themselves" may be correct.

Damman

03-17-09, 16:33

"Since my family and I have actually defended your right to have this freedom."

Perhaps I have misunderstood, but according to my DD-214, two bronze stars and think there is a Purple Heart in there somewhere, earned my right to freedom of speech. I do not want this to take on a personal note, but it did hit a nerve.

Stan Da Man

03-17-09, 17:18

President O or any other Presidential candidate for that matter does / did not have a snow balls chance in hell of saving the American People from themselves. The greediest people on the planet, which includes myself. Huh?

There's just too much misinformation in that post to correct at one time, so I'll just start with the notion that Americans are the "greediest people on the planet."

Now, self-criticism is fine when it's deserved. But on this point, nothing could be further from the truth.

Americans are easily the most giving people on the planet. There's no two ways about it: See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_charitable_countries and http://www.nowpublic.com/world/americans-are-most-generous-people-planet and http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2007-06-25-charitable_N.htm

This may change if Obama's plan to limit charitable deductions goes through. But, I doubt it will go through.

Americans may have a lot of other despicable qualities. Greed, however, is not one of them. If measured by how much we give to charities, less fortunate people and developing countries, Americans are the least greedy people.

El Perro

03-17-09, 17:25

Americans may have a lot of other despicable qualities. Greed, however, is not one of them. If measured by how much we give to charities, less fortunate people and developing countries, Americans are the least greedy people.Not to complicate the issue, but it is conceivable that there are a helluvalot of greedy folks in the USA and also a helluvalot of very giving, unselfish folks.

BadMan

03-17-09, 17:49

Now that sounds more like it.

Regards,

BM.
there are a helluvalot of greedy folks in the USA and also a helluvalot of very giving, unselfish folks.

Damman

03-17-09, 17:52

El Perro

03-17-09, 18:03

Daddy Rulz

03-17-09, 18:28

according to my DD-214, two bronze stars and think there is a Purple Heart in there somewhereAll I have to say

Stan Da Man

03-17-09, 19:49

May I apologize for painting all Americans with such a wide brush: Greed. My belief is that we have a cultural problem, shop until you drop mentality. Not until we hit bottom is anything going to change. And to get back to Obama, he is my guy. I just find it refreshing to have a down to Earth person in the White House and attempting to put his best foot forward. My feelings. Not him or anyone else can stop this train wreck. OK Damman. Sorry if I took your point too literally. I can agree that we have a culture too dependent on consumer spending. Can't agree on the "hitting bottom" stuff, but that's quibbling.

I've never voted Democrat for president but would have voted for Obama if I had voted. I disagree with much of what he is doing right now, but not everything, and I'm not going to pass judgment until he's had a fair chance. Two month, IMO, is not enough time, especially given the hand he was dealt.

That said, I don't think the situation is anywhere near as dire as Obama or the media portray it. I keep hearing the comparisons to the Great Depression but not from anyone who actually lived through that time period, such as my folks. This is a blip by comparison. It may be a bigger blip than the last recession, but it's still a blip.

A few of my law school classmates worked with Obama at one of the law firm's where he cut his teeth as a summer associate. They didn't like him and would not agree that he's a down to earth type of guy (they said he is completely full of himself, and this was nearly two years before he got elected president) But, they would agree that he is a smart guy.

This week, I think Obama may finally be figuring out what he's been doing wrong since taking office: If you act like everything's falling apart, then it will. Reagan understood that; I think Obama's finally figuring it out.

I always enjoy the banter in this thread. Cheers!

QuakHunter

03-18-09, 11:06

Perhaps I have misunderstood, but according to my DD-214, two bronze stars and think there is a Purple Heart in there somewhere, earned my right to freedom of speech. I do not want this to take on a personal note, but it did hit a nerve.Thank you for your service to our country.

Painting my personal beliefs with a wide brush hits a nerve with me, as well.

Jackson

04-03-09, 18:01

Most troubling is the sense that Obama cannot have thought this through. He can't have planned this. President Clinton used to say at strategy meetings that we needed to think three or four moves ahead and not just "kick the can down the road." Obama is clearly not following his predecessor's advice. He realized GM needed money. He knew the public would have a fit if he gave it. So he decided that he would appease his electorate by exacting blood from the company's management and directors by using his guillotine on some of its old gray heads.Obama: the dumbest most inexperienced President ever!

Hunt99

04-03-09, 18:19

Obama: the dumbest most inexperienced President ever!I can't agree. He's a very nice, bright young man. He reads beautifully from a teleprompter.

He's also in completely over his head. He's weak, in the sense that he has never dealt with adversity and he's naive in that he has no concept of the pressures being brought to bear on him by his external enemies. He is definitely obsessed with the idea of destroying one radio talk show host, however.

His outreach to the Iranian mullahs is a good example of where all this is headed: "Let's just sit down, drink some tea, and reason together, my friends." Meanwhile they laugh at him, not behind his back either, and continue to busily build atomic bombs. Mushroom clouds over what used to be Tel Aviv and Manhattan are definite possibilities for the not-too-distant future.

And we haven't even talked about the government taking over the running of the economy. That has turned out really well in Argentina, hasn't it?

It's like the t-shirt says, "Welcome Back, Carter."

MataHari

04-04-09, 07:48

I truely believe that international cooperation is preferable to unilaterality to solve global issues.

I truely believe oil and weapons industries have negative influences when they take control of a nation s executive power.

I can only witness that US american public debt was at its lowest in a generation after Clinton s mandate, it is now at all times record high after 8 years of Bush administration, so high that it started the biggest financial crises since 1929.

I can only witness that lack of control of loaners practices as well as hedge funds are universally identified reasons for this crises.

If 1929 crises lasted so long and lead to the rise of nationalisms (patriotisms?) and a global war, this is because of the belief that markets would "regulate themselves". Amazingly the same that are in favor of interventionism in foreign countries refuse any kind of interventionism in their own.

I can only conclude that if irresponsability has to be granted to one side, this is certainly not on the Democrat s one.

Member #4112

04-04-09, 13:00

Perhaps you don't remember, but Clinton only had to deal with Monica and not Osama. You also did not notice it was the Democrats who oversaw the deminse of Fanny and Freddy, with their lending rules put in place in the late 80's early 90's when they were the ruling party, leading directly to the failure Frank and Dodd watched occur in 2008. This is not 1929 or any where near it, it could be argued the "New Deal" of the thirties acutally caused the depression to last until WWII lifted the country out of it. I still say the Carmel One is going to make Carter look good as a president. This is not to say there need to be changes, but these changes need to be in enforcement of current regulations and not adding great power to the government.

QuakHunter

04-04-09, 13:57

I truely believe that international cooperation is preferable to unilaterality to solve global issues.

I truely believe oil and weapons industries have negative influences when they take control of a nation s executive power.

I can only conclude that if irresponsability has to be granted to one side, this is certainly not on the Democrat s one.Mata Hari, here is what I believe:

"I believe that children are the future, teach them well and let them lead the way".
- George Benson (Or Whitney Houston, pre crack Who** Bobby Brown Phase)

That's my way of saying I don't care what you believe.

I also believe that spelling is important. It's Irresponsibility not Irresponsability.

You will impress the judges if A) unilaterality is a word (it isn't) and B) it is spelled correctly (it isn't)

The great thing is in America, or as you call it "us american industry", we have freedoms of speech and expression. But in certain cases, like yours, I have been granted absolute power to revoke that right and put a Chinese spell on you. (Kind of like in Gremlins, Great Movie!)

But, if you are a woman I would love to meet you and try to bridge our differences. I would like for CIM to be the subject, (CIM means Conversationally Intellectual Mata Hari)

Just like the 1990's African-American philosopher Rodney King said, "Can't we all just get along?"

Here is what I would like to do Mata Hari:

"I'd like to buy the world a home.
And furnish it with love.
Grow apple trees and honey bees.
And snow white turtle doves."

Yes Mata Hari,.

"I'd like to teach the world to sing.
In perfect harmony.
I'd like to buy the world a Coke.
And keep it company.
That's the real thing."

"Oh yeah, Mata Hari, It's the Real Thing"

By the way, Coke is a multi-national "us american industry" and billions of Chinamen save for days to savor one drink of this fine nectar.

I am thinking of exporting my chain of Big Kahuna Burger franchises and having Samuel L. Jackson as spokesman. But I digress.

Hit me up Mata Hari, I love you.

MataHari

04-04-09, 15:23

QuakHunter

04-05-09, 14:49

My lovely singing Grasshopper,

You are very right, education is indeed important, and since we can learn everyday, here is the definition of the word unilaterality:

http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definitions/unilaterality

The chinese national drink is still tea, it s drunk all over the world and keeps you safe from diabetis, overweight et al. Any restaurant in China will welcome you with this beverage for free, since a customer is first and foremost a guest.

Sorry if I hit a patriotic nerve, I can teach you how to spell irresponsAbility in Chinese if you wish =)You have proven a worthy opponent against my weak grammatical skills. I would have used the statement "international cooperation is preferable to unilateralism to solve global issues". I guess you win the spelling bee.

While you are at it, can you teach me how to spell, "Ten dollar Chinese Hooker" in Chinese? Because there were a tonne of them on my last visit. I'm sure they must have been there by choice and not necessity, because the powerhouse that is China's economy surely provides for all, huh?

Oh yeah, it's Diabetes not diabetis. And since you solved the beverage of preference issue regarding tea over Coke, I won't try and explain the marketing lesson I was trying to demonstrate about choice, product position, branding and American envy of Brands throughout the world that was the crux of my argument.

I am not Grasshopper, I have graduated to Kung Fu.

Check out this link:

http://dictionary.reverso.net/english-definitions/asshole

Confucious say: "Man with hands in pockets, feel cocky all day"

Hunt99

04-05-09, 15:55

All this discussion of China reminds me of what a friend of mine was told by a working girl who was coming on to him in a Shanghai (or was it Beijing, I forget) disco:

"You hairy like monkey!"

I love Asian girls, Mata why don't you tell me where I can get some top-shelf pussy on my next trip to Hong Kong or Shenzen? Left and right, unilateralist and multilateralist can certainly find agreement on this topic.

Rev BS

04-05-09, 22:31

Jackson

04-07-09, 13:09

Sid,

While it's obvious that the neophyte Messiah fucked up all over the G20 meetings and was essentially lead through the nose by the experienced and eminently more qualified foreign leaders in attendance, I don't believe that a "joint communiqué" has quite the same legal weight as a ratified treaty.

Of course, ceding American sovereignty to the "New World Order" is a core element of the Messiah's belief system, but I'm hopeful that he can't accomplish this in the 39 months he has left in office.

Thanks,

Jackson

Obama: the dumbest most inexperienced President ever!

QuakHunter

04-07-09, 13:44

More opinions from the Politicos at Quakhunter University. A long read but insightful on how to cave in to your adversary.

At least the European people will like us, that feels good.

Credit goes to stratfor.com. Enjoy.

OBAMA'S STRATEGY AND THE SUMMITS.

By George Friedman.

The weeklong extravaganza of G-20, NATO, EU, U. S. And Turkey meetings has almost ended. The spin emerging from the meetings, echoed in most of the media, sought to portray the meetings as a success and as reflecting a re-emergence of trans-Atlantic unity.

The reality, however, is that the meetings ended in apparent unity because the United States accepted European unwillingness to compromise on key issues. U. S. President Barack Obama wanted the week to appear successful, and therefore backed off on key issues; the Europeans did the same. Moreover, Obama appears to have set a process in motion that bypasses Europe to focus on his last stop: Turkey.

Berlin, Washington and the G-20

Let's begin with the G-20 meeting, which focused on the global financial crisis. As we said last year, there were many European positions, but the United States was reacting to Germany's. Not only is Germany the largest economy in Europe, it is the largest exporter in the world. Any agreement that did not include Germany would be useless, whereas an agreement excluding the rest of Europe but including Germany would still be useful.

Two fundamental issues divided the United States and Germany. The first was whether Germany would match or come close to the U. S. stimulus package. The United States wanted Germany to stimulate its own domestic demand. Obama feared that if the United States put a stimulus plan into place, Germany would use increased demand in the U. S. market to expand its exports. The United States would wind up with massive deficits while the Germans took advantage of U. S. spending, thus letting Berlin enjoy the best of both worlds. Washington felt it had to stimulate its economy, and that this would inevitably benefit the rest of the world. But Washington wanted burden sharing. Berlin, quite rationally, did not. Even before the meetings, the United States dropped the demand -- Germany was not going to cooperate.

The second issue was the financing of the bailout of the Central European banking system, heavily controlled by eurozone banks and part of the EU financial system. The Germans did not want an EU effort to bail out the banks. They wanted the International Monetary Fund (IMF) to bail out a substantial part of the EU financial system instead. The reason was simple: The IMF receives loans from the United States, as well as China and Japan, meaning the Europeans would be joined by others in underwriting the bailout. The United States has signaled it would be willing to contribute $100 billion to the IMF, of which a substantial portion would go to Central Europe. (Of the current loans given by the IMF, roughly 80 percent have gone to the struggling economies in Central Europe. The United States therefore essentially has agreed to the German position.)

Later at the NATO meeting, the Europeans -- including Germany -- declined to send substantial forces to Afghanistan. Instead, they designated a token force of 5,000, most of whom are scheduled to be in Afghanistan only until the August elections there, and few of whom actually would be engaged in combat operations. This is far below what Obama had been hoping for when he began his presidency.

Agreement was reached on collaboration in detecting international tax fraud and on further collaboration in managing the international crisis, however. But what that means remains extremely vague -- as it was meant to be, since there was no consensus on what was to be done. In fact, the actual guidelines will still have to be hashed out at the G-20 finance ministers' meeting in Scotland in November. Intriguingly, after insisting on the creation of a global regulatory regime -- and with the vague U. S. assent -- the European Union failed to agree on European regulations. In a meeting in Prague on April 4, the United Kingdom rejected the regulatory regime being proposed by Germany and France, saying it would leave the British banking system at a disadvantage.

Overall, the G-20 and the NATO meetings did not produce significant breakthroughs. Rather than pushing hard on issues or trading concessions -- such as accepting Germany's unwillingness to increase its stimulus package in return for more troops in Afghanistan -- the United States failed to press or bargain. It preferred to appear as part of a consensus rather than appear isolated. The United States systematically avoided any appearance of disagreement.

The reason there was no bargaining was fairly simple: The Germans were not prepared to bargain. They came to the meetings with prepared positions, and the United States had no levers with which to move them. The only option was to withhold funding for the IMF, and that would have been a political disaster (not to mention economically rather unwise) The United States would have been seen as unwilling to participate in multilateral solutions rather than Germany being seen as trying to foist its economic problems on others. Obama has positioned himself as a multilateralist and can't afford the political consequences of deviating from this perception. Contributing to the IMF, in these days of trillion-dollar bailouts, was the lower-cost alternative. Thus, the Germans have the U. S. boxed in.

The political aspect of this should not be underestimated. George W. Bush had extremely bad relations with the Europeans (in large part because he was prepared to confront them) This was Obama's first major international foray, and he could not let it end in acrimony or wind up being seen as unable to move the Europeans after running a campaign based on his ability to manage the Western coalition. It was important that he come home having reached consensus with the Europeans. Backing off on key economic and military demands gave him that "consensus."

The Russian Dimension.

Let's diverge to another dimension of these talks, which still concerns Turkey, but also concerns the Russians. While atmospherics after the last week's meetings might have improved, there was certainly no fundamental shift in U. S.-Russian relations. The Russians have rejected the idea of pressuring Iran over its nuclear program in return for the United States abandoning its planned ballistic missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic. The United States simultaneously downplayed the importance of a Russian route to Afghanistan. Washington said there were sufficient supplies in Afghanistan and enough security on the Pakistani route such that the Russians weren't essential for supplying Western operations in Afghanistan. At the same time, the United States reached an agreement with Ukraine for the transshipment of supplies -- a mostly symbolic gesture, but one guaranteed to infuriate the Russians at both the United States and Ukraine. Moreover, the NATO communique did not abandon the idea of Ukraine and Georgia being admitted to NATO, although the German position on unspecified delays to such membership was there as well. When Obama looks at the chessboard, the key emerging challenge remains Russia.

The Germans are not going to be joining the United States in blocking Russia. Between dependence on Russia for energy supplies and little appetite for confronting a Russia that Berlin sees as no real immediate threat to Germany, the Germans are not going to address the Russian question. At the same time, the United States does not want to push the Germans toward Russia, particularly in confrontations ultimately of secondary importance and on which Germany has no give anyway. Obama is aware that the German left is viscerally anti-American, while Merkel is only pragmatically anti-American -- a small distinction, but significant enough for Washington not to press Berlin.

From the American point of view, Europe is a lost cause since internally it cannot find a common position and its heavyweights are bound by their relationship with Russia. It cannot agree on economic policy, nor do its economic interests coincide with those of the United States, at least insofar as Germany is concerned. As far as Russia is concerned, Germany and Europe are locked in by their dependence on Russian natural gas. The U. S.-European relationship thus is torn apart not by personalities, but by fundamental economic and military realities. No amount of talking will solve that problem.

The key to sustaining the U. S.-German alliance is reducing Germany's dependence on Russian natural gas and putting Russia on the defensive rather than the offensive. The key to that now is Turkey, since it is one of the only routes energy from new sources can cross to get to Europe from the Middle East, Central Asia or the Caucasus. If Turkey -- which has deep influence in the Caucasus, Central Asia, Ukraine, the Middle East and the Balkans -- is prepared to ally with the United States, Russia is on the defensive and a long-term solution to Germany's energy problem can be found. On the other hand, if Turkey decides to take a defensive position and moves to cooperate with Russia instead, Russia retains the initiative and Germany is locked into Russian-controlled energy for a generation.

Obama gave the Europeans a pass for political reasons, and because arguing with the Europeans simply won't yield benefits. But the key to the trip is what he gets out of Turkey -- and whether in his speech to the civilizations, he can draw some of the venom out of the Islamic world by showing alignment with the largest economy among Muslim states, Turkey.

This report may be forwarded or republished on your website with attribution to www.stratfor.com.

Rock Harders

04-07-09, 13:49

Mongers,

It really amazes me that the ultra right wing neo-con members of this board continue to hate and hate and hate upon Obama. This President is going to stave off the massive decline the US has been experiencing and all the neo-cons can do is whine and complain and yearn for the "good ol' days" of Shrub and Darth Vader. Guess what neo cons? The aggressive war-mongering policies that you so love, which serve to make you and your friends filthy rich, actually bankrupt the US! Dick Cheney: "deficits don't matter"- sure, Dick, they don't matter when all that cash that we don't have is being paid to your company (Halliburton) and the companies of your friends! The neo-cons do not look out for the best interests of the state, they only seek to make money for their greedy military / industrialist friends.

Well, thanks for fucking up everything so bad, because now the neo-cons will be out of power indefinitely. The Republican party has become a regional party of waning national importance. Obama is bringing our constitutional rights back and making amends with our alleged enemies so we don't have to engage in anymore pointless wars that only serve to make more enemies and bankrupt the state. It has already been announced that massive cuts (hundreds of billions of dollars) are coming to the military budget. By the end of the first term, Obama will have re-established cordial diplomatic relations with Cuba, Syria, Iran, and North Korea. Obama will order the foundation of a viable Palestinian state. The economy will recover, and he will win a second term in a landslide. So get ready for 87 more months.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

QuakHunter

04-07-09, 13:52

What's a Neo-Con?
Mongers-

It really amazes me that the ultra right wing neo-con members of this board continue to hate and hate and hate upon Obama. This President is going to stave off the massive decline the US has been experiencing and all the neo-cons can do is whine and complain and yearn for the "good ol' days" of Shrub and Darth Vader. Guess what neo cons? The aggressive war-mongering policies that you so love, which serve to make you and your friends filthy rich, actually bankrupt the US! Dick Cheney: "deficits don't matter"- sure, Dick, they don't matter when all that cash that we don't have is being paid to your company (Halliburton) and the companies of your friends! The neo-cons do not look out for the best interests of the state, they only seek to make money for their greedy military / industrialist friends.

Well, thanks for fucking up everything so bad, because now the neo-cons will be out of power indefinitely. The Republican party has become a regional party of waning national importance. Obama is bringing our constitutional rights back and making amends with our alleged enemies so we don't have to engage in anymore pointless wars that only serve to make more enemies and bankrupt the state. It has already been announced that massive cuts (hundreds of billions of dollars) are coming to the military budget. By the end of the first term, Obama will have re-established cordial diplomatic relations with Cuba, Syria, Iran, and North Korea. Obama will order the foundation of a viable Palestinian state. The economy will recover, and he will win a second term in a landslide. So get ready for 87 more months.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Member #4112

04-07-09, 15:15

Neo Conserative = Neo Con to the best of my knowledge.

Hard Rocks -Seems to me it was the left that was heaping on the hate / hate / hate not the right. Time will tell with the Carmel One as to if he is good, bad or indifferent (I think he will make Hoover and Carter look good) But IMHO he needs to stop campaigning and start leading, he won the election, he is president now do something concrete. Last I looked unemployment is going up, market is going down again, GM and Chrysler are near Chapter 7 or 11, banks are still a mess as well as Wall Street and Main Street. Now we are cutting back on defense while the social programs run on unchecked. Have you looked at the federal budget lately? Defense is a small slice compaired to the "entitlements". It is no long a "guns or butter" argument it is a "butter or pork" arguement.

Jackson

04-07-09, 16:40

Even before the meetings, the United States dropped the demand -- Germany was not going to cooperate.

Later at the NATO meeting, the Europeans -- including Germany -- declined to send substantial forces to Afghanistan. Instead, they designated a token force of 5,000, most of whom are scheduled to be in Afghanistan only until the August elections there, and few of whom actually would be engaged in combat operations. This is far below what Obama had been hoping for when he began his presidency.But, but, but, I thought they liked us now?

Overall, the G-20 and the NATO meetings did not produce significant breakthroughs. Rather than pushing hard on issues or trading concessions -- such as accepting Germany's unwillingness to increase its stimulus package in return for more troops in Afghanistan -- the United States failed to press or bargain. It preferred to appear as part of a consensus rather than appear isolated. The United States systematically avoided any appearance of disagreement.

The reason there was no bargaining was fairly simple: The Germans were not prepared to bargain. They came to the meetings with prepared positions, and the United States had no levers with which to move them.Due to his lack of executive management experience, the Messiah hasn't learned a basic premise of negotiating: It's not a negotiation if you're not willing to walk away.

Obama: the dumbest most inexperienced President ever!

Member #4112

04-07-09, 17:24

Gee Jackson, I got the impression the Carmel One was still campaigning, was that really his idea of bargaining? He might do better if he left the teleprompters at home - ie kept his mouth shut!

Jackson

04-07-09, 18:37

Mongers,

It really amazes me that the ultra right wing neo-con members of this board continue to hate and hate and hate upon Obama.I don't hate the Messiah, that would be like hating a child.

Sid,

With all due respect, our friend RH graduated from a far better university than one could described as a "Jr College". However, he is without question an "East Coast Liberal".

Jackson

==============================================

For the record, I am NOT a Rebublican, and I am NOT a conservative.

- I am against the death penalty.
- I am against any government support of religious organizations.
- I am for the legalization of drugs.
- I am for the legalization of commercial sex.
- I am for a woman's right to choose.
- I am for comprehensive sex education.
- I am for a foreign guest worker program.
- I am for a universal flat tax on EVERYONE'S income.

I am a member of the Libertian Party, registered as an Independent.

Hunt99

04-07-09, 19:20

Southeast West Virginia State is the equivalent of a Jr College! Satisfied Jack!The kids who graduate from that school (were that it actually existed) aren't likely to post such rubbish. God bless Southeast West Virginia State.

It takes a Columbia or Harvard degree or some such to be able to post that nonsense earlier in the thread.

Daddy Rulz

04-07-09, 21:14

Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Adams, Patrick Henry those fucking radical hippies.

I don't hate the Messiah, that would be like hating a child.

Sid,

With all due respect, our friend RH graduated from a far better university than one could described as a "Jr College". However, he is without question an "East Coast Liberal".

Jackson.

==============================================

For the record, I am NOT a Rebublican, and I am NOT a conservative.

- I am against the death penalty.
- I am against any government support of religious organizations.
- I am for the legalization of drugs.
- I am for the legalization of commercial sex.
- I am for a woman's right to choose.
- I am for comprehensive sex education.
- I am for a foreign guest worker program.
- I am for a universal flat tax on EVERYONE'S income.

I am a member of the Libertian Party, registered as an Independent.

Damman

04-08-09, 17:37

QuakHunter

04-08-09, 18:17

The most persuasive case for Obama has less to do with him than with the moment he is meeting. The moment has been a long time coming, and it is the result of a confluence of events, from one traumatizing war in Southeast Asia to another in the most fractious country in the Middle East. The legacy is a cultural climate that stultifies our politics and corrupts our discourse.

http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200712/obamaFor those who have a hard time following the "War and Peace" length diatribe attached, here is the condensed Cliff Notes version from Quakhunter Scholastic Publishing:

*It all started with the Vietnam War.
*Blah, blah, blah.
*Obama is in the right place at the right time.
*Blah, blah, blah.
*We need Obama.
*Blah, blah, blah.
*24-hour news channels with people screaming at each other helped cause discontent.
*Blah, blah, blah.
*We must have Obama.
*Blah, blah, blah.
*Baby Boomers have short attention spans.
*Blah, blah, blah.
*Republicans are really the problem.
*Blah, blah, blah.
*Bush acted like he had Reagan's mandate (Which with 49 states WAS a mandate)
*Blah, blah, blah.
*Obama is the savior and if you have different ideology you suck.

There are some unchallenged statements that are basically not true, like "A large consensus in America favors legal abortions during the first trimester and varying restrictions thereafter" and the author rambles on with conjecture and a wide array of misstatements and facts.

The ending statement says it all, "We may in fact have finally found that bridge to the 21st century that Bill Clinton told us about. Its name is Obama"

I can buy that statement. But the bridge is the I35W bridge over the Mississippi River and Ted Kennedy is driving the car. Wow, I made an analogous statement, I am so intellectually superior to all who challenge my views.

Oh yeah, I'm not "Hating", as the young, hip cats on the board want to call it. I just don't agree with the policies being laid out and am sick of being told I am a "Neo-Con" and a Right Winger because I have beliefs to the contrary of some.

Tiny12

04-08-09, 18:58

Thank God for the & quot;East Coast Liberals & quot;

Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Adams, Patrick Henry those fucking radical hippies.I don't know about that, lionizing slaveowners who wanted to confine voting rights to male property owners. They were spot on about the income tax though -- too bad the damn Republicans passed the 16th amendment.

Jackson

04-08-09, 19:48

Oh yeah, I'm not "Hating", as the young, hip cats on the board want to call it. I just don't agree with the policies being laid out and am sick of being told I am a "Neo-Con" and a Right Winger because I have beliefs to the contrary of some.Hear! Hear!

Daddy Rulz

04-09-09, 01:39

I don't know about that, lionizing slaveowners who wanted to confine voting rights to male property owners. They were spot on about the income tax though -- too bad the damn Republicans passed the 16th amendment.I always wonder why nobody else notices that the Bill of Rights was sort of tossed in as an after thought. The constitution as originaly written pretty much only deals with property rights, it must have been a real "hey wait a minute" moment when they realized that civil liberties ought to be in there as well.

Not that I advocate limiting the franchise but W winning two terms proves Jefferson right about voting.

QuakHunter

04-09-09, 13:12

I always wonder why nobody else notices that the Bill of Rights was sort of tossed in as an after thought. The constitution as originaly written pretty much only deals with property rights, it must have been a real "hey wait a minute" moment when they realized that civil liberties ought to be in there as well.

Not that I advocate limiting the franchise but W winning two terms proves Jefferson right about voting.Daddy,

Good point on the Bill of Rights. They definitely show the constitutional intent of our freedoms in this country.

So do the Federalist Papers which were written in 1787 by Alexander Hamilton, John Jay and James Madison in response to attacks against the ratification of the Constitution in articles published in New York.

The foundations of legal arguments arguing Constututional Intent were clearly explained in these essays, but somewhere politically appointed Judges and Justices have bastardized several obvious issues over the last two centuries.

The most ironic one is Federalist No. 10, which discusses the means of preventing faction and advocates for a large republic (and warns of the dangers of a democracy) and is generally regarded as the most important of the 85 articles from a philosophical perspective. Federalist No. 84 is also notable for its opposition to a Bill of Rights.

Not really a point, just a little history on the opposition that has always been in public discourse to what we call our way of life.

QuakHunter

04-09-09, 13:33

I have an investment in a Beverage Distribution Company and subscribe to a trade rag. The guy is really on top of things and usually sticks to the topic of selling beer and fighting regulatory BS.

Something pissed him off this week. I am deciding to post the entire tirade with minimal editing. Sorry about the length.

A Political Rant.

For this post we are going to take a brief detour from the beer and beverage worlds to enter that most daunting of all arenas. Politics. I realize in polite company this is one of the few topics which should be avoided at all costs. And I probably should heed that advice. But sometimes you need to scream I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. So damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead. If it costs me a client or two, so be it.

And please don't think I'm cheerleading for either major political party. They both have more than enough faults. Both political parties use raw partisanship to play us as saps. To blind us to what is really happening.

What has brought this rant to a head? Well last week was the annual **** Legislative Conference in DC, our annual suck-up to lesser men and women who have far too much power over all of us. This is not a knock on ***** and ****, I think they do a pretty dang good job and sadly, ANY industry in this country had better be in DC (and every state capital) if you are not you are a fool. That's just the way it is today. In a regulated industry like ours, the imperative is even greater.

But I also spoke to MANY distributors who had to bite their tongues and not tell their esteemed Representatives and Senators how they really felt about what is going on in DC right now. DC currently being the most dangerous place in the world for the well being of the entire planet. Once again, not a knock on *****, the purpose of these visits are to accomplish the industry's goals and Lobbying 101 says stay on target and only on target. But it sure is tough.

The entire episode has me disheartened and distressed. And yes, mad as hell. The weather was beautiful so I walked about and visited many of the awe inspiring memorials. The words of Lincoln, Jefferson, and Kennedy echoed in my mind. The horrors of the Holocaust museum brought more than a few tears to my eyes. The honor, courage, and sacrifice of those represented at Arlington, the Vietnam Wall, Korea, WWI and II memorials brought even more tears. And a questioning of my own worth and gratitude for these others. That these individuals gave their all for this country, in most cases for the freedom of others shook me to my core. It is one thing to fight for your own freedom; it is a damned sight different thing to fight and die for another's freedom.

Yet today we hear from many elected representatives that we must change the very foundation of this country. That we voted for "change" and the old rules don't apply. I have yet to understand how going from having 95% of the country employed to having 91.5% of the country employed (the national rate as of 04/03/09) a difference of 3.5%! Is cause for a remaking of the very fabric of our society. That we can spend our way to prosperity. Churchill famously said:

I contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.

Seems fairly obvious to me. Has any society ever taxed its way to prosperity? Or regulated its way to prosperity? Or borrowed its way to prosperity? If it were possible would there ever be a country which wasn't prosperous? Look around. Look at history. Is this the case? Why doesn't government just send us all a check for a million dollars and then we'd all be rich? There are realities we confront, whether we like it or not. Just as science is a constant search for the truth, the focus of our political system should also be the search for the truth, not raw political power. But politics and government today operate with a truth be damned-type of mindset. Our very lives are put at risk by this arrogance. The entire planet is put at risk by this arrogance. If you spend the time and effort you will find that every economic problem we are currently facing has government's fingerprints all over it. Let us never forget Tolstoy's statement:

Government is an association of men who do violence to the rest of us.

Or that font of wisdom, P. J. O'Rourke.

Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.

The old Soviet Union failed because its economic system failed. It simply didn't work because it contradicted reality. And reality is a pesky little thing which bends for no person. Regardless of how much one might hope and dream. China is successful because it has embraced free (er) markets. Some have suggested that the US is heading towards European-style socialism (with some looking forward to it and some dreading it) Both miss the mark. Without the US being the US, European socialism isn't possible in Europe, let alone the US!

Let us take a little stroll down memory lane. At the end of World War II, the US had a tremendous transfer of wealth to Western Europe. They have used this to luxury to build social systems which are forecast to be unsustainable in only a number of years. From handouts of hundreds of millions of dollars to unsustainable social welfare in a little over 60 years! They have allowed this social system to become a wealth consuming beast. Western Europe doesn't even have money (or desire) to even defend themselves! They basically have given up having any type of effective military, instead being happy to hide under the protective cover of our military might. Defense of the country is one of the primary reasons to even have a federal government. Instead they fund an unsustainable social system as they race towards the abyss.

In the 1970's began another huge transfer of wealth to the oil producing nations, generally in the Middle East. A lot of these dollars were recycled back to Europe, thus helping them sustain their socialist life style. Around the same time the Detroit automakers (and the wonderful UAW) were in the process of committing industrial suicide by their construction of some of the worst cars ever produced in this country (along with completely unsustainable union contracts) Thus began another tremendous transfer of wealth to Japan and later to the Asian Tigers. At least these countries used this wealth transfer to create successful, modern, and wealthy economies. And again, a lot of this wealth was recycled back to Europe. And this oil related transfer continues to this day. Again feeding the European social disaster.

Take the US economy out of this equation and NONE of this is possible. If we become European socialists, the whole world-wide equation changes. And not for the better anywhere on the freaking planet. You probably often hear about how the US consumes a great deal of the world's energy. What you don't hear is how much of the world's wealth is created here. Medicine, technology. Things that make the entire world a better, wealthier, healthier, and more peaceful place.

That's a fact, Jack. And what of this thing we call government? We seem to forget that words matter. Our emotions, our opinions, our very integration with the world around us are all influenced by words. But words are just that, words. No matter how much one might hope, they have no influence on the real physical world. Yet we often use words as though they represent real, physical things. Government is such a word. Both political parties habitually speak of government doing this or that. Often in almost mystical terms; much like God intervening in our puny little lives and magically transforming reality. Government will do this, government will solve that. But this thing we call government is an abstraction.

In this fashion it is just like a corporation, an artificial entity created by other words. Lord Haldane's classic quote regarding corporations says it all:

"My Lords, a corporation is an abstraction. It has no mind of its own any more than it has a body of its own; its active and directing will must consequently be sought in the person of somebody who is really the directing mind and will of the corporation, the very ego and centre of the personality of the corporation."

This also defines the government. This is not a moral statement but rather a physical fact. Governments don't do anything since they don't exist. The people who are either elected or work for governments do these things. Again a fact. These people are held to the same natural laws which exist for the rest of us—and they have no higher wisdom or moral authority. In fact you could make a strong case that far too many of them are moral and intellectual inferiors.

William F. Buckley noted: I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 2,000 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.

Well I know beer distributors and I'd rather entrust the government of the United States to ANY 2,000 owners or employees than to the present band of clowns we both elect and hire to operate the government of this great nation. The next time you read about how government is going to do this or that, replace the word with any company name, like Microsoft and see if you think it still makes sense.

This is not to imply that governments or corporations are static, passive things. Far from it. Although they are artificial entities, once created they behave much like a living entity. They seek to sustain themselves, to protect themselves, and to grow. A for-profit corporation's existence is limited by profit. How effectively they can convince individuals to freely part with their money. Government knows no such bounds.

Many years ago, H. L. Mencken noted the reality of government (and sadly our current situation. Especially the last quote)

"The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods"

The legislature, like the executive, has ceased to be even the creature of the people: it is the creature of pressure groups, and most of them, it must be manifest, are of dubious wisdom and even more dubious honesty. Laws are no longer made by a rational process of public discussion; they are made by a process of blackmail and intimidation, and they are executed in the same manner. The typical lawmaker of today is a man wholly devoid of principle—a mere counter in a grotesque and knavish game. If the right pressure could be applied to him he would be cheerfully in favor of chiropractic, astrology or cannibalism."

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary"

Unfortunately for us all, our governments and political processes operate as though they are immune from any reality other than pure political power and the proper spin of the masses. Today we hear how government is going to stimulate the economy. So this abstraction called government is going to stimulate (whatever that means) another abstraction called the economy. The economy is the sum of literally billions and billions of individual decisions and transactions made each and every day. How do a handful of government employees plan to "stimulate" these transactions? How do they know better than the individuals voluntarily making the transactions? Hayek called this "The Fatal Conceit". It seems government can either:

· Take money from someone and give it to someone else, or.

· Borrow money and give it to someone, or.

· Print more money and give it to someone.

I fail to understand how any of these will "stimulate" these billions of transactions which make up the economy.

We seem to be in the process of voluntarily giving away the freedoms (and the wealth and prosperity these freedoms allow to be created) that our forefathers gave their very lives to create and defend. Will future generations curse us for the damage we did? Will they wonder how we could so casually abandon the freedoms that exist no where else on the entire planet? Is our generation going to be the one which proves the following quote.

A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

· From bondage to spiritual faith;

· From spiritual faith to great courage;

· From courage to liberty;

· From liberty to abundance;

· From abundance to complacency;

· From complacency to apathy;

· From apathy to dependence;

· From dependence back into bondage.

Is our time up? Our going back to bondage will leave the world aflame. May God have mercy on our souls is we allow this to pass. Perhaps some late night, when all the tourists have abandoned the memorials, our political "leaders" of all stripes should sneak down and have a quiet talk with John and Abe and Thomas. Read what they said. What they did. Perhaps they should run their hands over the names on the Wall. Perhaps they should weep at Arlington. The words are right there:

"Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price - bear any burden - meet any hardship - support any friend - oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty"

"In the long history of the world, only a few generations have been granted the role of defending freedom. In the hour of maximum danger I do not shrink from this responsibility, I welcome it"

". It is for us the living rather to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us--that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion--that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain."

"We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, that to secure these rights governments are instituted among men. We. Solemnly publish and declare, that these colonies are and of right ought to be free and independent states. And for the support of this declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine providence, we mutually pledge our lives, our fortunes, and our sacred honor."

Re-read that last quote. The individuals who formed this country really did risk those things. But today, do our political "leaders", who swear a sacred oath to this country – not to this or that political party – actually believe those words? Or have those words simply become a suckers game? Where the creation of and fight for political power is all that matters? Where sacred honor is laughed at? Where fortunes aren't to be risked but rather to be made? And where only those who believe such outdated sentiments put their lives and honor on the line? Disheartening indeed.

For those who take the path of handing over their very lives to the lesser men and women whose only claim to greatness is their ability to get elected, I leave you with the words of a famous American patriot (and home brewer! Who did put his life, fortune, and sacred honor on the line, Samuel Adams.

"If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsel of arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen"

I for one will lick no hands. I will not live in servitude. I will never forget or forgive those who casually attempt to take my God-given rights away. Nor should you.

Jackson

04-09-09, 14:09

QuakHunter,

Excellent article.

Let me highlight a couple of extracts for the benefit of those who won't read it in its entirety:

=========================================

"The government consists of a gang of men exactly like you and me. They have, taking one with another, no special talent for the business of government; they have only a talent for getting and holding office. Their principal device to that end is to search out groups who pant and pine for something they can't get and to promise to give it to them. Nine times out of ten that promise is worth nothing. The tenth time is made good by looting A to satisfy B. In other words, government is a broker in pillage, and every election is sort of an advance auction sale of stolen goods"

"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary"=========================================

A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury.This is the core strategy of the Democratic Party, for without the illusion (quickly becoming the reality) of being able to give free money to their constituent groups, their political base would quickly evaporate.

=========================================

The economy is the sum of literally billions and billions of individual decisions and transactions made each and every day. How do a handful of government employees plan to "stimulate" these transactions? How do they know better than the individuals voluntarily making the transactions? Hayek called this "The Fatal Conceit". It seems government can either:

· Take money from someone and give it to someone else, or.

· Borrow money and give it to someone, or.

· Print more money and give it to someone.

I fail to understand how any of these will "stimulate" these billions of transactions which make up the economy.Actually, there is one sure-fire way that the government can "stimulate" the "billions and billions of individual decisions and transactions made each and every day", and that's by lowering taxes and giving the individual citizens the opportunity to make their own decisions on how to spend their own money.

Had the Republicians been in power, lowering taxes would have been exactly what they would have done to "stimulate" the economy because it's proven to work time and time again. However, the Democrats wouldn't even have considered that strategy because they wouldn't have had control as to whom the money was given and how the money would have been spent.

=========================================

Thanks,

Jackson

Jackson

04-09-09, 16:42

Thomas Jefferson, George Washington, Ben Franklin, John Adams, Patrick Henry those fucking radical hippies.DR,

Those guys all lived on the east coast of the USA, but they were most certainly not liberals by any definition.

Thanks,

Jackson

Toymann

04-09-09, 17:05

Without question the best polital post I have ever read on this board, chocked full of wild ass liberals. Keep the faith baby, this too will pass.

Happy Mongering All.

Toymann

Daddy Rulz

04-10-09, 11:04

DR,

Those guys all lived on the east coast of the USA, but they were most certainly not liberals by any definition.

Thanks,

JacksonLiberal and radical as hell, revolutionaries I might add, when placed in the context of their times. Remember Jefferson rewrote the bible as well as having an LTR with a black chick (OK he did own her). Those G's were crazy liberal in the context of their time, Che and Fidel had nothing on them Brother. They wanted to get rid of stocks and debter prison!! The very idea! Unwarrented search would be outlawed, the very idea that people have a right to face their accuser, peshaw whoever heard of such folley!!!How could you control criminals (the populace) if the government gave up so much power.

Radicals, free thinkers, revolutionaries, each and every one.

Hunt99

04-10-09, 14:01

Jackson is definitely not getting enough trim lately. He's now a regular participant in political discussions, which was something he would never do when he was getting laid on a regular basis.

Jackson, old buddy, do you need El Hunto to send down some pesos to the manager at La Lopez so you can get yourself some carry-out on me?

Jackson

04-10-09, 15:11

Liberal and radical as hell, revolutionaries I might add, when placed in the context of their times. Remember Jefferson rewrote the bible as well as having an LTR with a black chick (OK he did own her) Those G's were crazy liberal in the context of their time, Che and Fidel had nothing on them Brother. They wanted to get rid of stocks and debter prison! The very idea! Unwarrented search would be outlawed, the very idea that people have a right to face their accuser, peshaw whoever heard of such folley! How could you control criminals (the populace) if the government gave up so much power.

Radicals, free thinkers, revolutionaries, each and every one.DR,

I agree with your observations, but we segued into this topic while talking about the political philosophies of today's East Coast Liberals. These American icons, while they were most certainly "Radicals, free thinkers, revolutionaries", they were also most certainly NOT today's "tax and spend" liberals.

Thanks,

Jackson

Jackson

04-10-09, 15:19

BTW, did anybody see the news footage of The Messiah bowing down to the King of Saudi Arabia? This was a shoulders-lowered, head down, full-on subservient bow as commonly made to a higher authority.

Believe me, if you missed it, the Muslim world didn't.

Over and over I kept asking myself "How could the President of the United States not know how his subservient bow would be perceived by the Muslim world?", and then I remembered that he's....

Obama: the dumbest most inexperienced President ever!

Daddy Rulz

04-11-09, 00:45

DR,

I agree with your observations, but we segued into this topic while talking about the political philosophies of today's East Coast Liberals. These American icons, while they were most certainly "Radicals, free thinkers, revolutionaries", they were also most certainly NOT today's "tax and spend" liberals.

Thanks,

JacksonJax you and I will never, ever see eye to eye on these issues but I do respect for the most part our conversations, while lively, have been respectful. So in that spirit, I ask this question. Does that make Bush and Dick "deficits don't matter" Chaney " "don't tax and still spend" liberals?

Biggest deficits still by far Bush and Raygun, though that will most likely change when Obama's budget gets passed.

His deficit would be halved if he wasn't inheriting the Messopotamia. I maintain that if we as a nation go into debt to invest in anything, I prefer infrastructure to the folly in Iraq. Blackwater, KBR, and Haliburton have had enough corporate welfare.

I'm living in Pennsylvania and real people right now in Steelton are back at work due to the stimulus (sp) package.

Now if we could just get rid of Scraton Joe. Not as bad as Palin would have been but surely impeachment insurance for The Massiah.

SanMichele

04-11-09, 12:45

-Timothy Geithner: gee, I think I'm not opposed to a common world currency! -then elbowed by the VP Biden, but the US$ is so stong, why talk about that?

G20 conference in London discussion about the SDR http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/G20/article6023679.ece

-US president bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia!

-communist ideals and ideology by all president Hussein's affiliates.

-everything done is towards greater and permanent population control.

-wa state: new taxation on the "rich" bill introduced.

-wa state: new state taxation proposed.

-wa state: sales tax goes up 1%

-wa state: people elect the same idiots!

On the other hand Gun sales UP, way UP, go try to find ammo! Unless you look for 22s it's hard to find stuff on the shelves, and everything is backordered. Food prices up, people buying Silver $s - again impossible to find almost.

Am I wearing a tin hat? I hope so! Are my fears unfounded? I hope so! Am I joe the plumber? We all are!

From rich to poor we all gonna get fucked! And it's not the pleasant fuck we here look for in BAS!

Tiny12

04-11-09, 22:01

Sidney, Great post. The idea that wind and solar are going to supply a significant percentage of our energy needs in the forseeable future is a pipe dream. It's not going to happen. And now it looks like Salazar etal are going to shut down oil shale R & D. This is our best opportunity to end our dependence on foreign oil. The positive effects on our economy and security would be enormous. The U. S. is the Middle East of oil shale. We'd be selling more to the rest of the world than we're buying. We wouldn't be dependent on countries like China to invest in our government bonds and countries like Iraq to sell us their oil.

Last I heard, Shell thought they could make oil shale economic at a price around $35 per barrel. They're doing this using an in situ process that protects groundwater resources. Unlike surface mining of oil shale, the effects of extraction on the environment are minimal. But it's looking like Salazar and environmental groups may shut them down.

Tiny12

04-12-09, 01:09

Jax you and I will never, ever see eye to eye on these issues but I do respect for the most part our conversations, while lively, have been respectful. So in that spirit, I ask this question. Does that make Bush and Dick "deficits don't matter" Chaney " "don't tax and still spend" liberals?

Biggest deficits still by far Bush and Raygun, though that will most likely change when Obama's budget gets passed.

His deficit would be halved if he wasn't inheriting the Messopotamia. I maintain that if we as a nation go into debt to invest in anything, I prefer infrastructure to the folly in Iraq. Blackwater, KBR, and Haliburton have had enough corporate welfare.The federal public debt was 34% of GDP when Bush took office in 2001 and 44% of GDP when he left office in 2009. With Obama's budget, the Congressional Budget Office (controlled by Democrats) forecasts the federal public debt will be 82% of GDP in 2019.

Yeah, Bush, Cheney and the Republican Congress were spendthrifts. But when it comes to spending lots and lots of money, Obama & Co. are going to make them look like hacks.

Daddy Rulz

04-13-09, 09:59

The federal public debt was 34% of GDP when Bush took office in 2001 and 44% of GDP when he left office in 2009. With Obama's budget, the Congressional Budget Office (controlled by Democrats) forecasts the federal public debt will be 82% of GDP in 2019.

Yeah, Bush, Cheney and the Republican Congress were spendthrifts. But when it comes to spending lots and lots of money, Obama & Co. Are going to make them look like hacks.It is looking that way, though I maintain it the money seems to be going in a different direction. If it ends up fucking us, I'll be the first to admit it was wrong.

I still think the Repubs that are pretending the spending habits of the last 8 years didn't happen are funny though, though I'm glad to see the Conservatives seem to be reclaiming their party.

I for one like the balance between the two, liberal balanced by, even opposed by, conservatives.

Whiskas

04-13-09, 14:48

I for one like the balance between the two, liberal balanced by, even opposed by, conservatives.Well that is the foundation of any decent democracy, balance through strong opposition. A government can't stay strong for long without internal opposition.

El Perro

04-13-09, 16:25

I don't understand why that fucking violence mongering Obama felt the need to kill a few enterprising colored pirates who were exercising their god given right to make a few bucks? Fucking anti capitalist, stupid, caramel colored jerk! Can't he find a country to invade instead of picking on some behind a very black eight ball small businessmen? And, can't he and his family pick a regular dog for crying out loud? Something more american! Like a german shepherd or a weimaraner or an english bulldog? Or even a burmese mountain dog?

I mean, am I all alone here with my concerns about the really black buccaneers and their trumped up black deeds? Huh?

Daddy Rulz

04-13-09, 20:39

He is making a big and a minimum 5 year commitment there. Expect a big build-up. And don't be surprised if we start something serious in Somalia! CHANGE!Two aircraft carriers in the Gulf of Adan and goodnight pirates. F / A18s respond to distress calls, goodbuy Zodiacs. The Hawkeyes keep tab of what ship the Zodes came from and goodby mother ships. No missles, cannon fire would obliterate all those targets.

I would bet we could get it paid for by the shipping companies. They wouldn't have to skirt the gulf and their insurance rates would go down, it would probably be cost effective.

No need to land, we could also solve the basic Somali problem this way. That of illegal fishing and dumping, which was what contributed to the piracy in the first place. Somebody dumps waste we sink um, other nations fishing boats inside of 12 miles we confiscate the boats and give them to the Somalis.

Punter 127

04-13-09, 21:50

Two aircraft carriers in the Gulf of Adan and goodnight pirates. F / A18s respond to distress calls, goodbuy Zodiacs. The Hawkeyes keep tab of what ship the Zodes came from and goodby mother ships. No missles, cannon fire would obliterate all those targets.

I would bet we could get it paid for by the shipping companies. They wouldn't have to skirt the gulf and their insurance rates would go down, it would probably be cost effective.

No need to land, we could also solve the basic Somali problem this way. That of illegal fishing and dumping, which was what contributed to the piracy in the first place. Somebody dumps waste we sink um, other nations fishing boats inside of 12 miles we confiscate the boats and give them to the Somalis.Oh but wait “we can ’t afford to be the policeman of the world ”!

What happened to negotiating peaceful endings to these situations?

Why didn ’t we try sanctions before violence?

Why must these things end with the loss of life?

Did we get UN approval before we took action and used force?

I thought everybody in the world would love America, if we elected Obama.

If Obama can't deal with a few pirates without using deadly force; how will he possibly deal with the likes of North Korea and Iran? (Without using force)

Where ’s our change?

My compliments to the United States Navy Seals; JOB WELL DONE!

Rock Harders

04-13-09, 23:54

Mongers,

Actually, what took place should be viewed as a police action rather than a military strike, as the Somali pirates were non-state actors who in reality are nothing more than well-equipped common criminals. Somalia is a failed state with no effective central government and thus no law enforcement apparatus, as such the only way to deal with the lawlessness emanating from this situation is exactly the way it was handled. Pirates caught in the act should always be shot on sight if possible. If this situation of unabated piracy continues in the area, the navies of the affected countries should bomb the ports that outfit and harbor the said pirates. High seas piracy is ridiculous and there should be zero tolerance for it.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Daddy Rulz

04-14-09, 01:58

Oh but wait "we can 't afford to be the policeman of the world "!

What happened to negotiating peaceful endings to these situations?

Why didn 't we try sanctions before violence?

Why must these things end with the loss of life?

Did we get UN approval before we took action and used force?

I thought everybody in the world would love America, if we elected Obama.

If Obama can't deal with a few pirates without using deadly force; how will he possibly deal with the likes of North Korea and Iran? (Without using force)

Where 's our change?

My compliments to the United States Navy Seals; JOB WELL DONE!Because I thought (before the act, not like some johnny come lately) that Iraq was going to be, and continues to be one of the worst policy decisions this country has ever engaged in does not make me some wussy panty waisted dove. The purpose of the military is first to deter then to inflict damage and of course finally not to let any gays in. That is the reason Louis XIV had "The final argument of Kings" stamped into his cannon barrels.

Rock is right, it was a police action, however he was an American and ultimatly the safety and security of Americans is the primary duty of the President. My proposal simply allows us to clean up international waters and get somebody to pay for it. You need no consensus to act in international waters. Impose sanctions on who, the Government of the Gulf of Adan?

Change, how about this for change, doing the right thing in the right way. The only people condeming us for acting are the pirates.

That's the problem with you hillbillys, too much inbreeding and not enough schooling!

Sorry bubba couldn't help that whole hillbilly thang.

I do however echo your praise of the seals, 3 in the x-ring from a pitching deck, not bad atal.

Punter 127

04-14-09, 09:31

Would you have called it a "police action " and condoned it if Bush was still president? All at once you guys are fucking "War Hawks ", not likely. If Bush would have been in office you would have found some way to blame him for the whole ordeal to begin with, hell you probably will anyway.

Daddy I ’m not surprised by your personal attacks, that ’s what leftwing nuts do when they can ’t support there arguments with facts. It ’s a cheap tactic that ’s been over used, I would even call it pusillanimous, and I think most people see through it. So why don ’t you give it a rest?

IMHO the action taken with the pirates was too little and almost too late, we ’re very lucky no Americans were killed.

The military should not have to wait for the presidents ’ permission to use force to rescue Americans being held hostage, it should be an action of opportunity, especially in international waters.

I also think the pirates "mother ship " should have been hunted down and sunk, as it is they are left with the ability to repeat their dastardly deeds. The guys on that life boat did not act alone! Is this what you call "doing the right thing in the right way "? To me it ’s like shooting the messenger.

Could one of you highly educated all-knowing leftwing doves turned "War Hawk " please explain to me why the pirates never hit an American ship before Obama took office? They sure seem to have hit just about everybody else, including the Russians.

BTW what should we do with the pirate that was captured?

I suppose you new found "War Hawks " want to hang him from the nearest yardarm and let him rot, as a deterrent to others.

Rock Harders

04-14-09, 10:32

Mongers,

A police action is a police action no matter who the political leader is who orders the action. The point is that there is no local or national police force in existence to handle the criminal activity that goes on off the coast of Somalia; as such the only way to police the high seas is with the Navy. There was no violation of sovereignty, no invasion, no tearing down of a functioning state apparatus, no destroying of basic public works such as clean water and reliable electricity. It was an apprehension / termination of criminals, nothing more, nothing less.

The reason this was the first US-flagged and crewed vessel taken by these pirates is twofold; first, there are very few US-flagged and crewed vessels, especially in this part of world. Most ships are flagged in places such as Liberia, Panama, or Bahamas as a flag of convenience because it is cheaper and less regulated; their crews are almost always made up of filipinos or other such cheap labor. The second part is that since many of the pirate attacks yielded ransoms in the tens of millions of dollars, this is becoming a lucrative business in poverty-stricken Somalia which is attracting new job applicants on a daily basis.

As for why the mother ship was not sunk, that would have been an illegal aggressive action under international law. There would have to be proof that a particular ship was responsible and directly involved with the smaller boat that actually initiated the attempted hijacking and kidnapping. It's not so easy to tell which boat is just fishing and which is loaded with RPG's, ak-47's and boarding equipment. If the situation escalates, however, measures should be taken such as leveling the primary ports that harbor the pirates and subjecting all boats off the coast of Somalia to inspection by international navys.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Member #4112

04-14-09, 12:35

Hey Hard, should we have read them their rights? This is not a law enforcement matter, but a military one. Last time I checked the FBI was limited to the US, so how do they end up out to sea off Somolia? Democrats always want to view terror groups as a law enforcement issue and not the military threat it truly is.

Punter 127

04-14-09, 13:04

If you want police action to rid the waters of pirates off the coast of Somalia it should be UN led forces, not the American Navy! (Isn ’t that the way you always wanted it in the past?)

If the UN will not act then American ships should be kept out of those waters, or at least told to enter at their own risk.

It's my understanding (from news reports) that we knew which ship was the “mother ship ” and that it even tried to approach the life boat and was turn away by the U. S. Navy.

Oh and BTW the guns I saw the pirates with were a hell of a lot bigger than AK 47’s, but I ’ll bet they bought them at a gun shop in Texas. Better pass some more U. S. Gun laws.

Jackson

04-14-09, 14:53

It becomes so clear that he is a hypocritical liar. The USA is doomed to failure under the guidance of this idiot! Quickly, he is exceeding Bush, as the worst President in the history of the USA! HELP US!Sidney,

With all due respect, I think your statement is a bit too strong and certainly premature.

I didn't vote for Obama because I believe that he lacked the experience necessary to do the job well. However, that being said, now that he's got the job, I certainly don't want him to be "the worst President in the history of the USA".

Thanks,

Jackson

Member #4112

04-14-09, 18:41

Hey Punter,

I resent that remark about the pirates getting their guns from a gun shop in Texas, we got way bigger and better iron than that down here!

Daddy Rulz

04-14-09, 19:07

Rock Harders

04-14-09, 19:39

Mongers,

I applaud Jackson for his moment of rationality. As for my buddies Sidney, Punter and the others, they need to accept the fact that the election is over, Barack Obama won a free and fair election, is now the sitting President of the United States, and has broken away from the failed policies of past. Please accept the fact that a young black guy with a Harvard mouth and thought process is the President of the United States. He will be conducting policy according to rational thought processes and diplomatic norms and not according to how he can make the most money for his friends. Realism and neo-conservativism are dead. Get over it.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Punter 127

04-14-09, 19:54

Hey Punter I resent that remark about the pirates getting their guns from a gun shop in Texas, we got way bigger and better iron than that down here!I apologize, I know what you say is true, but I figured since you ’re getting blame for the guns in Mexico, well we might as well put this on you guys as well …lol.

I also didn ’t mean to belittle the AK 47 it ’s not to bad a gun considering how inexpensive they are, I actually own a couple of them.

BTW I will be a Texas resident myself very soon, although I don ’t plan to be there very much.

Punter 127

04-14-09, 19:58

First please accept my appologies if you truely were offended by the hillbilly lacking education comment. I assumed given the nature of our friendship and from past conversations you would understand that I was ribbing you as you are more highly educated than I am. This is honest, I consider you a friend in reality, and am very sorry if I offended you.

On to the rest, I was in favor of the Afghan invasion. Osama bin Balogny and Al Q was in Afghanistan at he invitation of the legal government of that country and they were operating with the expressed approval of that same government and had launched several operations that had directly harmed America. I disagreed with the Iraqi invasion before we ever crossed the Berm because those same reasons did not exsist. As a matter of fact I was in support of the first dust up there because it was clear that after Kuwait Saddam would go for the Kingdom and that would have placed far too many of the worlds proven oil reserves in one mans hands madman or not.

Patroling the Gulf of Adan, seriously as a matter of course no, my idea was to do it on a for hire basis. It's kind of crazy but if we could turn a profit and stop the piracy there then I'm all for it.

The man in question was an American. Personally I'm all about the military protecting Americans. If the Brits were holding an American in their embassy in Washington I would be just fine with the Marines going over that wall, though Delta would probably do it. Yes that would be an act of war but you can't let people fuck with your citizens like that. Now of course had the same man been legally detained by the non-exsistant government of Somalia for smuggeling narcotics than he is on his own. But taken during an act of piracy on the high seas? Either one of us would have been happy to pull that trigger but the Seals did it better.

Can I still call you a hillbilly as long as I don't call you an uneducated one?

Jax thank you for your remarks regarding your wait and see attitude regarding Obama. Daddy I ’m not offended I just think your material is old and boring. It has not affected our friendship as far as I ’m concerned.

I actually kind of agree with you, but I was trying (1st post) in a sarcastic way to point out how I think the left would have reacted if Bush would have taken this same action.

This has nothing to do with Iraqi and Afghanistan. It ’s a totally different situation.

If it is as RH would have us believe and only a very few U. S. Ships in the area then why waste money putting our Navy there? Surely you don ’t want us defending ships from other countries, do you?

I say either have the UN handle this or get our ships the fuck out of there!

The U. S. Is considering new options to fight piracy, including adding Navy gunships along the Somali coast and launching a campaign to disable pirate "mother ships," according to military officials who spoke on condition of anonymity because no decisions have been made yet.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/piracy RH, Looks like they may go after them “mother ships ” after all, you better let them know it a violation of international law.

Wild Walleye

04-15-09, 01:38

need to accept the fact that the election is over, Barack Obama won a free and fair election, is now the sitting President of the United StatesNo one here is debating that issue.

and has broken away from the failed policies of past.Which failed policies? Those of FDR that exacerbated the great depression?

Please accept the fact that a young black guy with a Harvard mouth and thought process is the President of the United States. He will be conducting policy according to rational thought processes and diplomatic norms and not according to how he can make the most money for his friends.You seem to be the only one fixated on his race (typical liberal racism-on display 24/7 but is doesn't count because liberals give themselves a pass) Lay off the cool-aid and pull your head out of your ass. How is Obama either a 'man of the people' or not putting his self interests first?

"arranged in the days just before he took office to secure a $500,000 advance for a children's book project [he must have spent all the time he was 'present' in the Senate, developing his children's writing skills] a disclosure report shows. The terms of the book deal were disclosed in a Senate financial disclosure report filed Tuesday. Analysts say there don't appear to be any rules that would bar such transactions after a president takes office, but it's unclear whether an incoming or sitting president has ever signed a book deal upon entering the White House."

Realism and neo-conservativism are dead. Get over it. "Rock is dead!" Take a look at the best seller lists around the US. Why would you want to see the US destroyed? Why not just enjoy cheap Argie pussy and let the US go its own way?

SuerteF-off.

Daddy Rulz

04-15-09, 18:28

If it is as RH would have us believe and only a very few U. S. Ships in the area then why waste money putting our Navy there? Surely you don 't want us defending ships from other countries, do you?

I say either have the UN handle this or get our ships the fuck out of there!

RH, Looks like they may go after them "mother ships " after all, you better let them know it a violation of international law.Aircraft carriers brother, a FA 18 can be on scene from 400 miles away in something like 20 minutes, plenty of time to foil a highjacking, then have the hawkeyes do a search in memory of where the radar trace from the Zode came from and back track that to the mothership and take care of it as well.

In that initial 20 minute period call the company that owns the ship and see if they are willing to pay for the protection. It won't be popular on the world stage of course but I think it would work.

What do you mean my material is old?

Punter 127

04-15-09, 20:15

Aircraft carriers brother, a FA 18 can be on scene from 400 miles away in something like 20 minutes, plenty of time to foil a highjacking, then have the hawkeyes do a search in memory of where the radar trace from the Zode came from and back track that to the mothership and take care of it as well.

In that initial 20 minute period call the company that owns the ship and see if they are willing to pay for the protection. It won't be popular on the world stage of course but I think it would work.

What do you mean my material is old?Daddy you know I'm all for knocking bad guys down, but why do we need to be in this area in the first place, what national interest or security is involved here?

This is not Have Gun Will Travel, or Six Gun for Hire.

To the best of my knowledge the U. S. Military is not for hire, so why put the in harms way?

Can you say Black Hawk Down?

Even if we had good reasons for being in the fight, you guys would just get shit in your neck and want to pull out before the job was done.

Let the UN deal with this, we are not the worlds police force.

Daddy Rulz

04-15-09, 23:36

Daddy you know I'm all for knocking bad guys down, but why do we need to be in this area in the first place, what national interest or security is involved here?

This is not Have Gun Will Travel, or Six Gun for Hire.

To the best of my knowledge the U. S. Military is not for hire, so why put the in harms way?

Can you say Black Hawk Down?

Even if we had good reasons for being in the fight, you guys would just get shit in your neck and want to pull out before the job was done.

Let the UN deal with this, we are not the worlds police force.The idea of getting paid to get rid of these guys appeals to me. Nobody ever said, myself included, that I was playing with a full deck.

Hunt99

04-17-09, 15:33

Why would you want to take a 90 minute plane ride from Chicago to New York City when you can take a train ride for 12 hours? Only right-wing neo-con goons who want to destroy the planet would dream of turning their back on Amtrak. All this country needs to make things better is to plow another $1 Trillion into a 19th century transportation technology.

This is the "CHANGE!" you voted for, so bend over, drop your pants, hand your wallet to that guy standing behind you, and grab your ankles.

QuakHunter

04-17-09, 17:15

Obviously this Brit didn't get the memo that all of the world is supposed to love Obama. Good read.

[quote]Barack Obama: President Pantywaist - new surrender monkey on the block.

President Barack Obama has recently completed the most successful foreign policy tour since Napoleon's retreat from Moscow. You name it, he blew it. What was his big deal economic programme that he was determined to drive through the G20 summit? Another massive stimulus package, globally funded and co-ordinated. Did he achieve it? Not so as you'd notice.

Barack is not the first New World ingenue to discover that European leaders will load him with praise, struggle sycophantically to be photographed with him and outdo him in Utopian rhetoric. But when it comes to the critical moment of opening their wallets - suddenly it is flag-day in Aberdeen. Okay, put the G20 down to inexperience, beginner's nerves, what you will.

On to Nato and the next big objective: to persuade the same European evasion experts that America, Britain and Canada should no longer bear the brunt of the Afghan struggle virtually unassisted. The Old World sucked through its teeth, said that was asking a lot - but, seeing it was Barack, to whom they could refuse nothing, they would graciously accede to his wishes.

So The One retired triumphant, having secured a massive contribution of 5,000 extra troops - all of them non-combatant, of course - which must really have put the wind up the Taliban, at the prospect of 5,000 more infidel cooks and bottle-washers swarming into the less hazardous regions of Afghanistan.

Then came the dramatic bit, the authentic West Wing script, with the President wakened in the middle of the night in Prague to be told that Kim Jong-il had just launched a Taepodong-2 missile. America had Aegis destroyers tracking the missile and could have shot it down. But Uncle Sam had a sterner reprisal in store for l'il ole Kim (as Dame Edna might call him): a multi-megaton strike of Obama hot air.

"Rules must be binding," declared Obama, referring to the fact that Kim had just breached UN Resolutions 1695 and 1718. "Violations must be punished." (Sounds ominous. "Words must mean something." (Why, Barack? They never did before, for you - as a cursory glance at your many speeches will show.)

President Pantywaist is hopping mad and he has a strategy to cut Kim down to size: he is going to slice $1.4bn off America's missile defence programme, presumably on the calculation that Kim would feel it unsporting to hit a sitting duck, so that will spoil his fun.

Watch out, France and Co, there is a new surrender monkey on the block and, over the next four years, he will spectacularly sell out the interests of the West with every kind of liberal-delusionist initiative on nuclear disarmament and sitting down to negotiate with any power freak who wants to buy time to get a good ICBM fix on San Francisco, or wherever. If you thought the world was a tad unsafe with Dubya around, just wait until President Pantywaist gets into his stride.(/quote)

Punter 127

04-17-09, 19:45

“French forces have seized a pirate 'mother ship', capturing 11 brigands some 900 km (560 miles) off the east coast of Mombasa.

The French had been monitoring the pirates overnight after one of their surveillance helicopters spotted the vessel and intercepted it on Wednesday morning.

The 'mother ship' is mostly a foreign ship seized by pirates used for transporting speedboats far out into the sea and re-supplying them for their attacks.

The operation interrupted the pirates' attack on a Liberian-registered cargo ship, said the French Defense Ministry. Looks like the French failed to read Rocks post about “illegal aggressive action under international law".

I never thought I ’d see the day the French of all countries, would be showing more balls than USA.

Meanwhile however:
In Washington, Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton announced new diplomatic efforts to freeze pirates’ assets, The Associated Press reported. She said the Obama administration would work with shippers and insurers to improve their defenses against pirates. Now that should bring those pesky pirates to their knees! You go Girl!

QuakHunter,

“President Pantywaist - new surrender monkey on the block, with a multi-megaton strike of Obama hot air”… How true it is, the only thing I’ve read lately I agreed with more was when Wild Walleye told my old buddy Rock Harder to “F-off”

Rock Harder,

After all your years of Bush bashing, did you really think everyone was going to join hands and sing Kumbaya around the camp fire when Obama took office?

Rock Harders

04-17-09, 20:22

Mongers-

The neo-cons on this board can keep on blowing bitter hot air if they choose, or they can observe a number of my predictions of Obama's successes coming true before their very eyes. First, we have the case of Cuba, which no one can deny is on the very cusp of opening up to unrestricted US citizen travel and unrestricted commerce is not too far down the road. The US has given the go ahead to the OAS to re-admit Cuba to its ranks of membership. Within 90 days, I predict the travel ban will be history and high level talks leading to a full restoration of diplomatic relations will occur. Next we have Iran, which has gone from hailing the US as the "great satan" to acknowledging that Obama is someone they can work with and agreeing to sit down with Obama and sort out the various issues. I predict within 180 days the Obama will hold high level talks with Iran and diplomatic relations will be restored. Even the highest ranking Shiite leader associated with Hezbollah in Lebanon has declared that Obama is to be trusted and negotiated with.

How about the US economy? Within the past week or so Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citibank, General Electric, Wells Fargo and Bank of America have all announced much better than expected quarterly earnings and all made a large profit (pre-repayment of bailout money) Many of the big firms that received bailout money have already begun paying it back. It appears there has been a bottoming out and that very, very slow growth and recovery can begin.

The neo-cons mock the notion of "change", but Obama is making enormous changes in the things he has the direct power to control; foreign policy, civil rights, etc. The economy was fucked up long before Obama was elected and it is going to take time to clean up the mess that the scummy neo-cons and their military / industrialist buddies left the United States citizenry. Look forward to 93 more months of this.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Damman

04-17-09, 21:11

Go Obama. So refreshing to be away from that John Wayne wanna-be.

Mongers-

The neo-cons on this board can keep on blowing bitter hot air if they choose, or they can observe a number of my predictions of Obama's successes coming true before their very eyes. First, we have the case of Cuba, which no one can deny is on the very cusp of opening up to unrestricted US citizen travel and unrestricted commerce is not too far down the road. The US has given the go ahead to the OAS to re-admit Cuba to its ranks of membership. Within 90 days, I predict the travel ban will be history and high level talks leading to a full restoration of diplomatic relations will occur. Next we have Iran, which has gone from hailing the US as the "great satan" to acknowledging that Obama is someone they can work with and agreeing to sit down with Obama and sort out the various issues. I predict within 180 days the Obama will hold high level talks with Iran and diplomatic relations will be restored. Even the highest ranking Shiite leader associated with Hezbollah in Lebanon has declared that Obama is to be trusted and negotiated with.

How about the US economy? Within the past week or so Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citibank, General Electric, Wells Fargo and Bank of America have all announced much better than expected quarterly earnings and all made a large profit (pre-repayment of bailout money) Many of the big firms that received bailout money have already begun paying it back. It appears there has been a bottoming out and that very, very slow growth and recovery can begin.

The neo-cons mock the notion of "change", but Obama is making enormous changes in the things he has the direct power to control; foreign policy, civil rights, etc. The economy was fucked up long before Obama was elected and it is going to take time to clean up the mess that the scummy neo-cons and their military / industrialist buddies left the United States citizenry. Look forward to 93 more months of this.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Punter 127

04-17-09, 22:44

Hunt99

04-17-09, 23:51

Within the past week or so Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Citibank, General Electric, Wells Fargo and Bank of America have all announced much better than expected quarterly earnings and all made a large profit (pre-repayment of bailout money) Many of the big firms that received bailout money have already begun paying it back. It appears there has been a bottoming out and that very, very slow growth and recovery can begin. If you think Obama had anything to do with the corporate earnings of those companies, you are really much more stupid than you appear at first glance. Moreover, he wasn't even in office for much of the quarter that these companies are reporting earnings for.

But if you want to give him credit where none is due, I look forward to your agreement that he will deserve blame when bad things happen as well. Or will that still be Bush's fault?

And finally, you ought to remember that Enron reported positive earnings just before it filed for bankruptcy. But a gullible type who will credit anything to a newly-installed chief executive will doubtless also think that just because a bunch of numbers are reported in a 10-Q, they must be correct.

Rock Harders

04-18-09, 00:15

Hunt,

The point of mentioning that these blue-chips are reporting earnings is to demonstrate that Obama's policies are not "ruining" the economy as many of the neo-cons on this board like the argue. Most Presidents have little actual influence on the economy except for their instillation of confidence, hope and self assurance in the direction the nation and economy are headed. In terms of your seeming comparison of Enron to the companies I mentioned, I'll bet you a full night of drinks and pussy at Black that NONE of the companies I mentioned will go bankrupt as a result of the upheaval of the past year or so. All of the companies I mentioned had an extremely profitable business model before they started involving themselves in garbage securities, which foolish executives turned to as a way of feeding larger bonuses to themselves through short term unsustainable earnings numbers. They have reverted to their standard business practices and will be profitable indefinitely.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Precocious One

04-18-09, 11:47

If you think Obama had anything to do with the corporate earnings of those companies, you are really much more stupid than you appear at first glance. Moreover, he wasn't even in office for much of the quarter that these companies are reporting earnings for.

But if you want to give him credit where none is due, I look forward to your agreement that he will deserve blame when bad things happen as well. Or will that still be Bush's fault?

And finally, you ought to remember that Enron reported positive earnings just before it filed for bankruptcy. But a gullible type who will credit anything to a newly-installed chief executive will doubtless also think that just because a bunch of numbers are reported in a 10-Q, they must be correct.Well said. The profits of these companies last quarter were all made on their trading desks (gambling) and not through conventional means (writing loans) In fact, many of the aforementioned companies where publically stating (mid -March) to short and buy puts against them which resulted in said companies orchestrating the biggest short squeeze ever recorded in the financial sectors. A complete fleecing of the sheeple.

These companies are almost all insolvent justifying why the Fed is advocating the termination of mark-to-market and their non-dislosure of level three assets.

This is the beginning of the end of a 20+year credit binge, credit that the US (or most other countries for that matter) cannot and will not ever pay back in today's dollar (inevitable devaluation).

With this in mind, do people really believe that the world has resolved it's debt issues in just six short months?

QuakHunter

04-18-09, 14:03

The neo-cons on this board can keep on blowing bitter hot air if they choose, or they can observe a number of my predictions of Obama's successes coming true before their very eyes. I still don't know what a "Neo-Con" is. I know it means Neo-Conservative, but the negative connotation troubles my giving, caring, chica loving nature.

Please refer to me as "Neo-Mong" or Neo-Monger.

Thank you.

P. S. - Regarding Rocktradamus' predictions. I predict it will rain. Someday. Then followed by a period of sun. Some other day.

QuakHunter

04-18-09, 14:10

With Obama at the helm the Pirates will not prevail!

It is my belief that the end game will be:

1) Cubs.

2) Cardinals.

3) Milwaukee.

4) Astros.

5) Pirates.

And I believe the Somali Pirates will proclaim, as the highest ranking Shiite leader associated with Hezbollah in Lebanon declared that, "Obama is to be trusted and negotiated with".

I just want these Fuckers to like us again.

Cubs win, Cubs win! Holy Cow, Cubs win!

Wild Walleye

04-19-09, 03:13

It is an angry-left-wing label developed to aid liberals responding to intelligent conservatives with more than gaping mouths and looking like a guppy.

The read-between-the-lines includes a heavy dose of antisemitism (aimed at Jews that don't vote democrat -- I. E. Those self-hating types that while they send their kids to live on a kibbutz for a few months, don't have the balls to stand up for Israel) I don't understand why they had to add the antisemitic angle, but it's there.

Me? While I am a son of David, mine is a three-person God.

Please, call me anything you like, if your calling me names, I am sure that I am on the right path.

I predict that what has been happening in the American consciousness will ultimately be reflected in real term limits (I. E. at the polls--I believe that those are the term limits intended by the framers)

America is waking up from a nasty bender, shaking out the cob webs and trying to remember all the details from a raucous, feel-good stretch of gilding the lily and believing it isn't what I do but how I feel and empathize that is important. Rethinking how things went so wrong when doing it felt soooo good.

I am sure RH thinks I am a racist, sexist, bigoted homophobe. The truth? What's it matter? He doesn't care to know the truth, he knows what he knows and that is the truth no matter how in accurate it is.

If liberals actually practiced anything that they preach, it would be a different story.

With Obama at the helm the Pirates will not prevail!

It is my belief that the end game will be:

1) Cubs.

2) Cardinals.

3) Milwaukee.

4) Astros.

5) Pirates.

And I believe the Somali Pirates will proclaim, as the highest ranking Shiite leader associated with Hezbollah in Lebanon declared that, "Obama is to be trusted and negotiated with".

I just want these Fuckers to like us again.

Cubs win, Cubs win! Holy Cow, Cubs win!

Hunt99

04-19-09, 12:22

I mentioned, I'll bet you a full night of drinks and pussy at Black that NONE of the companies I mentioned will go bankrupt as a result of the upheaval of the past year or so. All of the companies I mentioned had an extremely profitable business model before they started involving themselves in garbage securities, which foolish executives turned to as a way of feeding larger bonuses to themselves through short term unsustainable earnings numbers. They have reverted to their standard business practices and will be profitable indefinitely. While I have no problem joining you for mongering at Black, I can't take you up on this wager. Why? Because the government has already let it be known that a company "too big to fail" will be artificially propped up with taxpayer money.

I don't think it's the case with GE, WFC, or JPM, but it is beyond dispute that GS, C, and BAC would have been in receivership without infusion of over $200 billion of tax money.

Of course, WFC and JPM just got $100 billion in subsidies to buy WM and WB, respectively.

I do not agree that presidents can have no effect on the economy. Usually the effect is in the aggregate, but of late the effects are becoming much more direct, picking "winners" and "losers." Of course, in the long term the whole stinking mess will come crashing down, as efforts to cancel the law of supply and demand are about as successful as seeking to cancel the law of gravity.

There will be a price to be paid by tripling and quadrupling the national debt in a short period of time, from an already-unacceptably high level, as we will see. My challenge is to foresee how the transformation of the USA into a large version of Argentina can be exploited for profit.

However, before those great plans for "change" come to fruition, it's more likely that history will toss up another Reagan to sweep away our present Second Coming of Jimmy Carter. Three more years of Carter II, and then the reformation.

Daddy Rulz

04-19-09, 13:24

I was watching the Daily Show and they had Elizabeth Warren on. She was speaking about how after the 1st Great Depression (joke) the nation implimented regulation that avoided the typical boom-bust cycle of the preceding 150 years of U. S. history, from the late 1930's to late 1980's.

FDIC, SEC regulations, and Glass-Steagal (separating commercial banking from investment banking)

And that since Reagan this regulation has been eroded.

Without getting into partisinship (impossible dream I know) can you edumacated mongers edumacate me on the subject a bit?

Wild Walleye

04-19-09, 15:20

The notion of "too big to fail" while commonly used in the pejorative by the main stream media (regardless of political slant) is largely misunderstood as to its roll in market psychology and in some cases its necessity for economic stability.

Unfortunately, the morons in the previous administration (please note that I am dumping on a Republican Admin) did not understand it and destroyed (yes destroyed) TBTF as part of the bedrock of market psychology. If they had chosen to continue the notion / perception of TBTF, it would have helped last summer / fall and would have lessened the impact of the financial crisis across the economy. The event to which I refer is of course letting Lehman Bros fail. It shattered TBTF and immediately destroyed any confidence in any and all counter parties to financial transactions. In the wake of Lehman's September bankruptcy, the entire economy shut down for weeks, in large part due to the nonavailability of commercial paper and other short-term debt instruments that are the oil to the economic engine. This acerbated the already bad economic situation and accelerated layoffs across the nation in all sectors of the economy (the effects of taking three weeks of GDP and throwing it out the window)

You were correct on the NEW and 'improved' selective TBTF, if you combine these two notions:

Because the government has already let it be known that a company "too big to fail" will be artificially propped up with taxpayer money
I do not agree that presidents can have no effect on the economy. Usually the effect is in the aggregate, but of late the effects are becoming much more direct, picking "winners" and "losers."Now the precedent has been set that TBTF is entirely at the whim or agenda of the president. Whether Obama, Bush, Reagan, Washington or anyone in between, that is a very bad thing.

For TBTF to support finding a bottom in a financial crisis, its existence must be absolute in the mind of the market participants, even though it maybe in part mythology.

Paul VJK

04-19-09, 23:02

Loads of pictures of Chavez and Obama making goo-goo eyes at each other.

My left-leaning friends are all so happy - isn't it a wonderful change from the animosity of the past 8 years?

And I have to agree. Like President O, I'd much rather have an amicable relationship with Chavez's Venezuala. Problem is, I can't as easily ignore the human rights abuses, the nationalization of industry and that inconvenient 'president-for-life' thing he's trying to do.

I find it sickening to see the President of the United States dealing with an anti-democratic thug like Chavez. Obviously our new President values smiles and handshakes over freedom. This isn't an isolated case and it will not end well.

Principles? We don't need no stinkin' principles.

QuakHunter

04-20-09, 01:09

Damman

04-20-09, 01:10

Punter 127

04-20-09, 07:01

Hunt99

04-20-09, 09:07

The Obama Chavez lovefest is just another example of how we've gone back to the Carter years. Want to get the respect and attention of the United States? Be a thug, a bully, a tyrant. (Given Obamalove to varying degrees: Russia, Iran, Cuba, Saudi Arabia, Venezuela.) Want the back of Obama's hand, and to be treated like shit? Be a friend of the USA. (Just the opposite treatment, to varying degrees: Israel, Germany, Colombia, Poland.)

It will get worse before it gets better. It is patterned in the DNA in this man to kowtow to those who do not deserve respect, and to contemptuously treat those who ought to be regarded as friends.

Paul VJK

04-20-09, 14:12

This type of diplomacy and interactions rankles some. They like the hard ass approach. Cut 'em off. Ignore 'em. Give 'em the finger. But in today's world, charming a questionable leader to the point that they say "I want to be your friend" and smiling like a big ol' kid can give you leverage that can be exploited for your benefit. Not theirs. "Kill 'em with kindness" does work a sizable amount of time. We have everything to gain and nothing to loose. The World is changing.I understand the argument, but I don't believe it works. As it's been said (I believe by DeGaulle) Countries don't have friends, they have interests. Although, our new President seems to believe otherwise.

Much of this (in my view, mistaken) attitude is the basis of our President's belief in disarmament. And the history of disarmament attempts can be used to prove the uselessness of this attitude.

The Wall Street Journal had a very good editorial about the history of disarmament: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123923509427103247.html#mod=djemEditorialPage

It's not about a 'hard-ass' approach vs. A charm offensive. It's about reality. And history. I'm very afraid that the President and his advisors believe they can ignore reality and get away with it. And that never works. As I said, Chavez is an anti-democratic thug. No matter what the United States does, I don't believe Chavez will ever be interested in stepping down. Based on his record, he'll continue to consolidate his power - by punishing dissenting views and nationalizing industries.

So we can smile and be friends with him - or recognize that we shouldn't be friends and push for real reforms in that country.

Same thing appies to Iran, North Korea and a bunch of other places around the world.

QuakHunter

04-20-09, 14:54

11 - 1 to the Braves.

It appears that the CIC's "daring and decisive" actions weren't exactly that. The following is from a maritime blog populated by current and ex-military personnel.

The following is a synopsis of what really took place. In the vernacular, BHO means Barrack Obama or President Pantywaist as posted below.

The truth behind Maersk Alabama?

Posted on Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:09:51 PM by mrmargaritaville.

Having spoken to some SEAL pals here in Virginia Beach yesterday and asking why this thing dragged out for 4 days, I got the following:

1. BHO wouldn't authorize the DEVGRU / NSWC SEAL teams to the scene for 36 hours going against OSC (on scene commander) recommendation.

2. Once they arrived, BHO imposed restrictions on their ROE that they couldn't do anything unless the hostage's life was in "imminent" danger.

3. The first time the hostage jumped, the SEALS had the raggies all sighted in, but could not fire due to ROE restriction.

4. When the navy RIB came under fire as it approached with supplies, no fire was returned due to ROE restrictions. As the raggies were shooting at the RIB, they were exposed and the SEALS had them all dialed in.

5. BHO specifically denied two rescue plans developed by the Bainbridge CPN and SEAL teams.

6. Bainbridge CPN and SEAL team CDR finally decide they have the OpArea and OSC authority to solely determine risk to hostage. 4 hours later, 3 dead raggies.

7. BHO immediately claims credit for his "daring and decisive" behaviour. As usual with him, it's BS.

So per our last email thread, I'm downgrading Oohbaby's performace to D-. Only reason it's not an F is that the hostage survived.

Read the following accurate account.

Philips' first leap into the warm, dark water of the Indian Ocean hadn't worked out as well. With the Bainbridge in range and a rescue by his country's Navy possible, Philips threw himself off of his lifeboat prison, enabling Navy shooters onboard the destroyer a clear shot at his captors — and none was taken.

The guidance from National Command Authority — the president of the United States, Barack Obama — had been clear: a peaceful solution was the only acceptable outcome to this standoff unless the hostage's life was in clear, extreme danger.

The next day, a small Navy boat approaching the floating raft was fired on by the Somali pirates — and again no fire was returned and no pirates killed. This was again due to the cautious stance assumed by Navy personnel thanks to the combination of a lack of clear guidance from Washington and a mandate from the commander in chief's staff not to act until Obama, a man with no background of dealing with such issues and no track record of decisiveness, decided that any outcome other than a "peaceful solution" would be acceptable.

After taking fire from the Somali kidnappers again Saturday night, the on scene commander decided he'd had enough.

Keeping his authority to act in the case of a clear and present danger to the hostage's life and having heard nothing from Washington since yet another request to mount a rescue operation had been denied the day before, the Navy officer — unnamed in all media reports to date — decided the AK47 one captor had leveled at Philips' back was a threat to the hostage's life and ordered the NSWC team to take their shots.

Three rounds downrange later, all three brigands became enemy KIA and Philips was safe.

There is upside, downside, and spinside to the series of events over the last week that culminated in yesterday's dramatic rescue of an American hostage.

Almost immediately following word of the rescue, the Obama administration and its supporters claimed victory against pirates in the Indian Ocean and [1] declared that the dramatic end to the standoff put paid to questions of the inexperienced president's toughness and decisiveness.

Despite the Obama administration's (and its sycophants') attempt to spin yesterday's success as a result of bold, decisive leadership by the inexperienced president, the reality is nothing of the sort. What should have been a standoff lasting only hours — as long as it took the USS Bainbridge and its team of NSWC operators to steam to the location — became an embarrassing four day and counting standoff between a ragtag handful of criminals with rifles and a U. S. Navy warship.

Kind of like a waterborne version of Bubba Clinton's Somali prosecution.

Hunt99

04-20-09, 19:15

Spend: $10,000,000,000,000.00

Minus

Budget Cut: $100,000,000.00

Equals: Deficit Reduction (otherwise known as "CHANGE!")

Big Travel Guy

04-21-09, 00:49

"Want to get the respect and attention of the United States? Be a thug, a bully, a tyrant. "

Hunt, you don't know my posts, but I'm a political independent, neither with nor against this administration. But, your statement here (I probably didn't get the litlte blue quote box around it properly, sorry) you sure you got a good historical footing on this? I'd like to hear your best arguements for this. I know some on the other side, like Vietnam and Iraq, for starters. Also, the current sentiment in Latin America, being a long-time-in-coming response to a lot of "thugishness" over the years down south of the border that I really don't see as having served us very well over the years.

Hunt99

04-21-09, 00:53

Examples you want? Here they are:

Putin, Chavez, Ahmadinejad, Castro (x2), Kim Jong-Il, King Abdullah.

Do I have to stack up the dead bodies and political prisoners to convince you of these fellows' status?

El Queso

04-21-09, 03:06

Professor Joseph Olson of Hemline University School of Law, St. Paul, Minnesota, points out some interesting facts concerning the Presidential election:

Number of States won by: Democrats: 19 Republicans: 29

Square miles of land won by: Democrats: 580,000 Republicans: 2,427,000

Population of counties won by: Democrats: 127 million Republicans: 143 million.

Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by: Democrats: 13.2 Republicans: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate, the map of the territory Republicans won was mostly the land owned by the taxpaying citizens of the country. Democrat territory mostly encompassed those citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms of government welfare."

Olson believes the United States is now somewhere between the "complacency and apathy" phase of Professor Tyler's definition of democracy, with some forty percent of the nation's population already having reached the "governmental dependency" phase.

If Congress grants amnesty and citizenship to twenty million criminal invaders called illegals and they vote, then we can say goodbye to the USA in fewer than five years. If you are in favor of this, then by all means, delete this message.

If you are not, then pass this along to help everyone realize just how much is at stake, knowing that apathy is the greatest danger to our freedom.Sidney, sorry man, and ya knows I love ya, but I think correct facts are critical when talking about politics. There is a lot of false information out there that people bandy back and forth, and this email is one of them.

I got to looking at the numbers and I didn't remember that McCain had carried as much as was claimed in the email and went hunting for what the deal was:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/whats_the_deal_with_prof_joseph_olsons.html

Rock Harders

04-21-09, 03:50

Mongers,

Let's get one thing straight: Hugo Chavez is a demagogue and a complete buffoon who is engaging in policies that will lead to zero-development and ruin in Venezuela. He has made a living on the foreign policy stage pandering to the poorest Latin American countries that the USA has exploited and plundered over and over again. If the past governments of the USA really gave a shit about democracy and development in Latin America they would have done something other than support corrupt governments that gave away their countries resources, and guys like Chavez would never get elected.

When the neo-cons complain about Obama conducting cordial exchanges with heads of non-democratic states it makes me laugh. The neo-cons must be the last of a kind that actually believes the USA stands as a beacon of democracy in the world and has moral authority to tell other nations what to do. The majority of the citizens of the USA do not even believe this any longer; they know that the foreign policy of the USA has only been about money and "who gets what" for the past 100 years or more. The USA has never cared about democracy in any foreign state; the USA cares about which government of a foreign state is friendly and convenient to the economic interests of the USA and nothing more.

What Obama understands, and what the neo-cons never will, is that at this point, with zero credibility as a benevolent force in the region or anywhere else remaining, the USA needs to use soft power, diplomacy, and cooperation in order to better its relations with the other states of the Western Hemisphere and the world. The USA has failed to project its system upon many powerful and influencial states of the world and instead must now find ways to have a cooperative relationship with states and regimes that are philosophically, ideologically, and systematically different than the USA.

Suerte,

Rock Harders

Daddy Rulz

04-21-09, 03:51

Sidney, sorry man, and ya knows I love ya, but I think correct facts are critical when talking about politics. There is a lot of false information out there that people bandy back and forth, and this email is one of them.

I got to looking at the numbers and I didn't remember that McCain had carried as much as was claimed in the email and went hunting for what the deal was:

http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/whats_the_deal_with_prof_joseph_olsons.htmlYou can't confuse him with the facts. Obama sucks and that's all that matters. Same with Quak Hunter, if the ROE's were "shoot when the hostages life was in "clear, extreme danger" then when he was in the water and the Cubbies were shooting at him his life would have been in "clear, extreme danger."

Monday morning quarterbacks.

Exon123

04-21-09, 06:54

Mongers-

Let's get one thing straight: Hugo Chavez is a demagogue and a complete buffoon who is engaging in policies that will lead to zero-development and ruin in Venezuela. He has made a living on the foreign policy stage pandering to the poorest Latin American countries that the USA has exploited and plundered over and over again. If the past governments of the USA really gave a shit about democracy and development in Latin America they would have done something other than support corrupt governments that gave away their countries resources, and guys like Chavez would never get elected.

When the neo-cons complain about Obama conducting cordial exchanges with heads of non-democratic states it makes me laugh. The neo-cons must be the last of a kind that actually believes the USA stands as a beacon of democracy in the world and has moral authority to tell other nations what to do. The majority of the citizens of the USA do not even believe this any longer; they know that the foreign policy of the USA has only been about money and "who gets what" for the past 100 years or more. The USA has never cared about democracy in any foreign state; the USA cares about which government of a foreign state is friendly and convenient to the economic interests of the USA and nothing more.

What Obama understands, and what the neo-cons never will, is that at this point, with zero credibility as a benevolent force in the region or anywhere else remaining, the USA needs to use soft power, diplomacy, and cooperation in order to better its relations with the other states of the Western Hemisphere and the world. The USA has failed to project its system upon many powerful and influencial states of the world and instead must now find ways to have a cooperative relationship with states and regimes that are philosophically, ideologically, and systematically different than the USA.

Suerte,

Rock HardersWell said Rock Harders.

Exon

Big Travel Guy

04-21-09, 10:52

Examples you want? Here they are:

Putin, Chavez, Ahmadinejad, Castro (x2) Kim Jong-Il, King Abdullah.

Do I have to stack up the dead bodies and political prisoners to convince you of these fellows' status?I mis-read your comment (too much whisky late at night, I guess. I thought you were talking about how to get the respect and attention FOR the United States, not OF the United States. My bad.

QuakHunter

04-21-09, 10:59

QuakHunter

04-21-09, 11:19

You can't confuse him with the facts. Obama sucks and that's all that matters. Same with Quak Hunter, if the ROE's were "shoot when the hostages life was in "clear, extreme danger" then when he was in the water and the Cubbies were shooting at him his life would have been in "clear, extreme danger."

Monday morning quarterbacks.Daddy, What facts of my post on the Pirates and the actions of the Navy SEALS were confusing? And since the epicenter of all Liberal rage is Based on Ronald Reagan, let me share a quote from Sir Ronnie the Great, "Facts are stubborn things". The facts of Obama's actions are there for all to see and for each person's interpretation. The left sure wanted to vilify GWB when he acted like a warrior. I just want those fuckers to like us again!

Boy that Monday Morning Quarterbacking does suck; I hate it now just like I did over the last eight years. And please look through my posts to find out where I have defended GWB in anything other than the prosecution of the War on Terrorism; the bullshit going back and forth with this "Neo-Con" this and "Neo-Con" that is just eight years of pent up liberal rage. I still want to know what Neo-Con means? I know it means Neo-Conservative but I am stumped on the application. Somehow I don't believe it is flattering.

I would like the O defenders to take a stand right now on this board and tell me the merits of Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Frank and Obama and tell me where they feel our country will be in four years, not in the one or two years that we are in this fucking love fest. At the end of his first and only term we will re-visit those posts and I will issue a huge fucking mea culpa if the forecasts are anywhere near accurate. And I will tell you this fact, I am rooting for my country not against it.

And please, do NOT bring the Cubbies into this. Derek Lee and Alfonso Soriano would not shoot them from long range. They would have held their breath and swam up on them and cut their throats while Lou Pinella was directing ops.

Go Cubs, beat Pirates!

Daddy Rulz

04-21-09, 12:20

Daddy, What facts of my post on the Pirates and the actions of the Navy SEALS were confusing? And since the epicenter of all Liberal rage is Based on Ronald Reagan, let me share a quote, "Facts are stubborn things". The facts of Obama's actions are there for all to see and for each person's interpretation. The left sure wanted to vilify GWB when he acted like a warrior. I just want those fuckers to like us again!

Boy that Monday Morning Quarterbacking does suck; I hate it now just like I did over the last eight years. And please look through my posts to find out where I have defended GWB in anything other than the prosecution of the War on Terrorism; the bullshit going back and forth with this "Neo-Con" this and "Neo-Con" that is just eight years of pent up liberal rage. I still want to know what Neo-Con means? I know it means Neo-Conservative but I am stumped on the application. Somehow I don't believe it is flattering.

I would like the O defenders to take a stand right now on this board and tell me the merits of Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Frank and Obama and tell me where they feel our country will be in four years, not in the one or two years that we are in this fucking love fest. At the end of his first and only term we will re-visit those posts and I will issue a huge fucking mea culpa if the forecasts are anywhere near accurate. And I will tell you this fact, I am rooting for my country not against it.

And please, do NOT bring the Cubbies into this. Derek Lee and Alfonso Soriano would not shoot them from long range. They would have held their breath and swam up on them and cut their throats while Lou Pinella was directing ops.

Go Cubs, beat Pirates!Rock you should respond to paragraphs 2 and 3, you write about this better than I do.

Appologies to the Cubbies.

Jackson

04-21-09, 14:07

....They know that the foreign policy of the USA has only been about money and "who gets what" for the past 100 years or more. The USA has never cared about democracy in any foreign state; the USA cares about which government of a foreign state is friendly and convenient to the economic interests of the USA and nothing more.In this perspective we are identical to every other government in the world.

So why is it that the neo-libs expect us to apologize for acting in our own self interests?

And given that EVERY country makes their decisions based on their own self-interests (and not on who they like), then what difference does it make if they like us?

The answer: It makes NO difference if they like us or not, because they make decisions regarding their country based on their own self-interests.

Thanks,

Jackson

Damman

04-21-09, 14:20

"would like the O defenders to take a stand right now on this board and tell me the merits of Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Frank"

Quakhunter, with all due respect, change your nicotine patch.

Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Frank. Obama inherited these people. You will get no argument from me about these scalawags. Can we really include them in a conversation about Obama?

For Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Frank and please include Dodd, those scalawags allowed this financial and diplomatic nightmare to happen and now take a hypocritical position, my view. I honestly believe the powers to be (Democrats) believed they could walk all over Obama. His own party was attempting undermined him with their own agendas in the beginning. Gratefully, Obama did / will not let that happen.

We are four months into this Obama thing and it seems Obama is responsible for about everything that has transpired over the past twenty years. Without a doubt, the deficits and debt scares the living hell out of me, but they at least have a plan. It cannot fix itself. The insanity of twenty years of spending and crazy behavior cannot be undone in a week or two.

Wish this thread had not taken on such a personal note, but it seems it has. You know what they say about politics and religion.

Member #4112

04-21-09, 16:00

Well said Jackson. Every country acts in its own self interest (I believe it is called foreign policy) those who do not perish. Does anyone really give a damn if N. Korea, Iran, ect "like" us. I doubt it. The last time we had a president who wanted to do the "right thing" we got in deep shit, I believe his name was Jimmy Carter. He should have stuck to peanut farming because he was a total loss as a president. If you remember we got old Jimmy after the Nixon / Ford thing and everyone wanted to feel "good" again by electing a good Christian. Same thing with the Carmel One promising everyone everything. Well we may need a Christian for a leader but in this world he better be an Old Testiment kind of guy.

My 2 cents.

QuakHunter

04-21-09, 16:15

Rock you should respond to paragraphs 2 and 3, you write about this better than I do.

Appologies to the Cubbies.Thanks Daddy. But surprisingly I really don't care what happens to the capitalist oppressors of the proletariat. They can drown in pools of their own blood.

But the Cubs represent goodness, virtue and happiness for millions. They're fucking losers, but lovable.

QuakHunter

04-21-09, 16:47

"would like the O defenders to take a stand right now on this board and tell me the merits of Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Frank"

Quakhunter, with all due respect, change your nicotine patch.

Reid, Pelosi, Kennedy, Frank. Obama inherited these people. You will get no argument from me about these scalawags. Can we really include them in a conversation about Obama?Bullshit. Where does O'Bama differ on policy from these people? Who got him elected? Who are the ones acting like spoiled kids after Mommy and Daddy get divorced and the trust fund is released? The answer is yes, we can include them in a conversation about O'Bama. The same way the people who linked Bush with Cheney, Rove, DeLay, Limbaugh, Hannity with every breath. The only thing he inherited is the Nine Justices of the Supreme Court.

We are four months into this Obama thing and it seems Obama is responsible for about everything that has transpired over the past twenty years. Without a doubt, the deficits and debt scares the living hell out of me, but they at least have a plan. It cannot fix itself. The insanity of twenty years of spending and crazy behavior cannot be undone in a week or two.No he is just responsible for the last hundred days. That includes a budget deficit forecasted to be a possible 80%+ of GDP (by the OMB's own forecast) from the current level of app. 39% GDP. (I may be off on that number) This is after campaigning against deficits and for the future of our children.

DM, there is no Nicotine patch; Bubba Clinton saved me from "Big Tobacco" and I don't smoke. Though I am down with the daily hummer in the office from fat girls like Bill, but I always make sure I clean up the evidence.

Giovanni B

04-21-09, 17:25

Personally, I think that he can not say that he is not responsible for what went on before he came into office as he was a sitting senator. He is just finding that he is now sitting in an office where he has to do more than vote "present".

People are finding that he is nothing more than an empty suit that will say whatever he thinks the people want to hear. And the people that voted for him will believe him because "Barry means well." But the reality is that being someone is more than the words that you speak.

No he is just responsible for the last hundred days. That includes a budget deficit forecasted to be a possible 80%+ of GDP (by the OMB's own forecast) from the current level of app. 39% GDP. (I may be off on that number) This is after campaigning against deficits and for the future of our children.

Rev BS

04-22-09, 00:46

Obcalif

04-22-09, 03:05

Well since the last 100 plus days or so it's become more of a challenge to day trade. DNDN was a good bump. Although a risky gamble. Hey, more Federal funding for stem cell research. Can't be all bad. In to some AIG as the Fed has a 18% interest and I can't see them giving away that much to let it all go now? Down to the last 150 billion of TARP money.

Paul VJK

04-22-09, 11:16

The neo-cons must be the last of a kind that actually believes the USA stands as a beacon of democracy in the world and has moral authority to tell other nations what to do. The majority of the citizens of the USA do not even believe this any longer; they know that the foreign policy of the USA has only been about money and "who gets what" for the past 100 years or more. The USA has never cared about democracy in any foreign state; the USA cares about which government of a foreign state is friendly and convenient to the economic interests of the USA and nothing more.

What Obama understands, and what the neo-cons never will, is that at this point, with zero credibility as a benevolent force in the region or anywhere else remaining, the USA needs to use soft power, diplomacy, and cooperation in order to better its relations with the other states of the Western Hemisphere and the world. The USA has failed to project its system upon many powerful and influencial states of the world and instead must now find ways to have a cooperative relationship with states and regimes that are philosophically, ideologically, and systematically different than the USA.

Rock HardersRespectfully disagree.

First off, I don't think it's just misguided neo-cons who believe the US should work towards human rights in abusive societies. Our dear President just signed (I believe) the Cuban bill entitled: "Promoting Democracy and Human Rights in Cuba" - which by the way, will do nothing to promote democracy and human rights in Cuba. Of course he may just choose the titles to fool those stupid neo-cons.

Secondly, while I agree with the other posters that countries have 'interests', I think one guiding interest of the US should be to promote freedom and human rights in other countries. Call me idealistic or stupid if you will, but I believe that those values lead to long term global peace and stability - which should be the goal.

Perhaps soft power is the way to do this - but I'd be curious to see an example of where soft power actually worked in changing a foreign country's policies.

QuakHunter

04-22-09, 11:26

Our dear President just signed (I believe) the Cuban bill entitled: "Promoting Democracy and Human Rights in Cuba" - which by the way, will do nothing to promote democracy and human rights in Cuba. Of course he may just choose the titles to fool those stupid neo-cons.President Quakhunter just signed his own "Promoting free travel to Cuba for Mongers to stimulate hookers" bill. Which WILL stimulate hookers and, most importantly, El Presidente Quakhunter.

Viva la Prostitucion!

Member #4112

04-22-09, 13:54

Black Shirt and Paul VJK:

No it does not mean when we are "wrong" we are still "right" since that is a matter of your perspective and value set (something "countries" don't have) it means we do what is in the best interest of the United States. If that permits us to push the ideals of "democracy" and "human rights" from OUR PROSPECTIVE that is fine, but remember is from OUR PROSPECTIVE which is a prospective not shared by others in the world. The United States has to survive as a country to do this so that brings us back to self interest to survive and not perish as a country.

News Flash, former Cuban president Fidel Castro has just published a condemnation of the Carmel One's MISUNDERSTANDING of President Raoul Castro's statements regarding Cuban officials being ready to sit and talk about "everything", Raoul meant he will talk about our problems since Cuba does not have any. Fidel also stated they were not going to reduce the 10% fee they charge for funds transfers from the United States to Cuba as it is fair since the US is the repressor of Cuba due to the current embargo. As far as releasing political prisoners, they don't have any political prisoners only criminals and they will remain in jail where they belong.

Well so much for "feel good" diplomacy

Whiskas

04-22-09, 14:39

Black Shirt and Paul VJK:

News Flash, former Cuban president Fidel Castro has just published a condemnation of the Carmel One's MISUNDERSTANDING of President Raoul Castro's statements regarding Cuban officials being ready to sit and talk about "everything", Raoul meant he will talk about our problems since Cuba does not have any. Fidel also stated they were not going to reduce the 10% fee they charge for funds transfers from the United States to Cuba as it is fair since the US is the repressor of Cuba due to the current embargo. As far as releasing political prisoners, they don't have any political prisoners only criminals and they will remain in jail where they belong.

Well so much for "feel good" diplomacyAs the saying goes: "Old dog doesn't learn new tricks". And as Exon would say: "The C. sucker".

Daddy Rulz

04-22-09, 15:40

President Quakhunter just signed his own "Promoting free travel to Cuba for Mongers to stimulate hookers" bill. Which WILL stimulate hookers and, most importantly, El Presidente Quakhunter.

Viva la Prostitucion!The next time we are in BsAs at the same time your first beer is on me. Few people on this forum are able to argue ideas without making them personal and respecting the right of the person you disagree with to believe as they do. In addition I respect how you discuss differing political views while keeping them in perspective and remember there are many things in life MUCH more important.

Viva la Prostitucion!

Daddy Rulz

04-22-09, 15:41

As the saying goes: "Old dog doesn't learn new tricks". And as Exon would say: "The C. Sucker".If you're going to quote him it has to be accurate.

It's "cok suker" "muther fuker" or "cok suking muther fuker"

Rev BS

04-22-09, 18:34

Doppelganger,

"Self Interest" for America was expressed this way once, THE BUSINESS OF AMERICA IS BUSINESS. Nothing wrong there, I think we can agree. But where foreign policy has failed big time, is the Clint Eastwood / John Wayne approach where the American brand of democracy is preached and lectured to countries that are neither culturally or educated / sophisticated suited for American style of democracy. "Mutual Respect" is often used in diplomatic language, but rarely implemented with any kind of success by the Department of State (BIG TIME FAILURE) As manifested, the pent-up macho frustrations of these latin leaders when they attacked the USA on the world stage, it is a popular message to the downtrodden masses of the world. Our relationship with Iran is a good example of what went wrong with our foreign policy. It started with our staging of a coup that put the Shah of Iran in power for our oil interests and the support of that regime that had serious human rights and democratic issues. Iran is now the Evil Empire, but can we called ourselves, the good old boys (the neo-cons) Personally, I nominate Doyle Brunson as Secretary of State.

Member #4112

04-22-09, 19:35

Black Shirt, I will whole heartedly agree with you concerning the Business of America is Business, and from that point our self interest as a nation is directed. I disagree with "nation building" regardless of the administration, it just does not work in cultures which for centuries have lived under "strong man" / authoritarian style regimes. Let's face it our representative style democracy just cannot be applied elsewhere, we are unique. It is foolish for Americans to attempt to force our views on other countries, just as we chafe under some of the pronouncements from the United Nations. Since it is human nature to pick on someone to be the whipping boy, we are the big kid on the block so they naturally come after the US, same with us and the USSR 20 years ago and Iran / N Korea now. The aforementioned notwithstanding, I still believe we have the obligation to defend our interests (whatever they may be at the time) with force if necessary.

What is perceived as "correct" today will not be in a few years, count on it. Look at John Kennedy, today he would be branded a far right wing radical neo-com.

The world in general is not "civilized" and Americans tend to see it both myopically and through rose colored glasses. It is still dog eat dog and they will cut your throat (literally) for any number of reasons, countries just do it on a grander scale. Perhaps American's have become to "civilized" to recognize the threat until it rips out their throat. To quote Mao, political power flows from the barrel of a gun, no one respects you for your ideology, they respect you because you have the power to enforce your ideology.

Rev BS

04-22-09, 20:43

Doppelganger,

As I stated and you reiterated, we should not force our style of democracy on anyone, especially, now that the cold war is over. That was my point. Singapore and Malaysia, American allies and great countries for American business still get Department of State lectures publicly for lack of democratic transparancy. You get the picture of the Ugly American Tourist who is loud and throws his money around, and that is the same picture of Uncle Sam in the Third World. So you say that is never going to change, but I say, try eating something else instead of hamburgers all the time.

Member #4112

04-22-09, 23:40

Whiskas

04-23-09, 00:13

If you're going to quote him it has to be accurate.

It's "cok suker" "muther fuker" or "cok suking muther fuker"My mistake Daddy Ruiz, I was trying to use. But something didn't work. BTW I'm thinking on starting my own school instead of quoting, how about "Castro that old damn, no good lying mudda fukkin fagget".

Little long but may work.

Rev BS

04-23-09, 00:13

Black Shirt.

You lost me on the hamburger thing, perhaps I missed something.

If so many of us fit the Ugly American sterotype - why are we always in demand? Never had a chica from Moscow to BA turn down money even if it was not the amount they asked for.There is a sterotype for every nationality. Sorry, but I hope we all can laugh at each other without bruising our egos. Look, money is always in demand and Americans are the biggest spenders. In that regard, you will be loved as a sugar daddy. My reference to hamburgers is the typical American mindset is uninterested to a wide variety of foreign food. They will always order the same Americanized 3 dishes at a Chinese or Thai restaurent. In that reference, American foreign policy will always be that same flavor, bland and in most cases, unhealthy.

Hunt99

04-23-09, 08:25

In that reference, American foreign policy will always be that same flavor, bland and in most cases, unhealthy.You are so full of shit.

American foreign policy under both parties during the last century ended the scourges of Nazism and Communism and freed over a billion people to live their lives their own ways (which includes in some cases biting the hand that freed them). Its focus on encouraging international trade and free enterprise worked to raise another billion in East Asia out of the lowest level of grinding poverty.

It is not perfect, but the US has done more good for more people the world over than any 10 other countries put together.

Paul VJK

04-23-09, 09:39

American foreign policy under both parties during the last century ended the scourges of Nazism and Communism and freed over a billion people to live their lives their own ways (which includes in some cases biting the hand that freed them) Its focus on encouraging international trade and free enterprise worked to raise another billion in East Asia out of the lowest level of grinding poverty.

It is not perfect, but the US has done more good for more people the world over than any 10 other countries put together.Well said.

QuakHunter

04-23-09, 11:03

QuakHunter

04-23-09, 11:09

The next time we are in BsAs at the same time your first beer is on me. Few people on this forum are able to argue ideas without making them personal and respecting the right of the person you disagree with to believe as they do. In addition I respect how you discuss differing political views while keeping them in perspective and remember there are many things in life MUCH more important.

Viva la Prostitucion!Thanks Daddy, the second one for you will be on me.

I'm tentatively scheduled to be in Bs Aires May 27 to May 31. Waiting on a meeting confirmation before I am sure.

The wheels of commerce must turn. Twenty minutes of business; four days of economic development concentrating on "trickle in" economics and lifting the poor out of their unfortunate circumstances.

I hope all is well.

Rev BS

04-23-09, 11:34

You are so full of shit.

American foreign policy under both parties during the last century ended the scourges of Nazism and Communism and freed over a billion people to live their lives their own ways (which includes in some cases biting the hand that freed them) Its focus on encouraging international trade and free enterprise worked to raise another billion in East Asia out of the lowest level of grinding poverty.

It is not perfect, but the US has done more good for more people the world over than any 10 other countries put together.As usual, your eloquent expressions are so original, but I guess you don't have to go to the toilet everyday like I do. Nobody is disputing the contributions and role of the US as a world leader in history. All I am pointing out is that the political problems the US is facing TODAY have resulted from bad foreign policy. You guys get a hugh laugh of thrashing the rest of the world, but a couple of comments, and you get ballistic. Mutual Respect is alien to you.

QuakHunter

04-23-09, 13:15

There is a sterotype for every nationality.You sound like the stereotype of a Frenchman; an elitist who can quote Nietszche, but can't remember the name of the Supreme Allied commander of the Allied Forces that liberated their country from true tyranny.

Look, money is always in demand and Americans are the biggest spenders. In that regard, you will be loved as a sugar daddy.This is a board where we discuss paying women to shower us with affection and physical pleasure. Is that "Sugar Daddy" thing meant as disrespectful to the board members of AP? If you think American's are the big spenders, you don't get out much.

My reference to hamburgers is the typical American mindset is uninterested to a wide variety of foreign food. They will always order the same Americanized 3 dishes at a Chinese or Thai restaurent.You must live near a place where Cruise Ship guests disembark. I actually like four Chinese and Thai dishes, not three. After Dog, Cat and Goat the Hamster Stir Fry is very good. (You are living up to the sterotype of French people of the elite superiority in food, wine and culture but have never been outside of Nice)

In that reference, American foreign policy will always be that same flavor, bland and in most cases, unhealthy.Nice broad strokes you paint things and people with. Nice Opinions; bring some facts sometime.

Hunt's first sentence of his previous response speaks for me.

Rev BS

04-23-09, 13:41

QuakHunter

04-23-09, 14:31

Quakhunter,

Don't need to get so personal, your skin is like rice paper. Go get a tan. The only gold nugget out of the whole profiling is that Americans are no longer the big spenders. That's why I call my mongering junkets to BA, Pretending to be living in Europe at Bangkok prices.

I think I'll quit while I am ahead. If ever we are in line for the same girl, please go ahead of me.Wow. I don't know how I will sleep tonight knowing you think less of me. And if we are ever in line for the same girl, you will surely win because of your superior wit and snappy comebacks.

You will know me by the Rice Paper shirt I am wearing and my new tan. Will you be the one wearing the Black Shirt?

I have a call in to Dr. Kervorkian because of the self loathing I feel for you taking my observations as a personal attack. Life is not worth living knowing that a man wearing a Black Shirt espousing his obviously superior knowledge of US foreign policy globally and observations of American spending and dining habits might feel alienated by my poor choice of trying to demonstrate the irony in your statements.

You are intellectually superior and more well travelled and I can not live in a world knowing you will not accept me. Please forgive me for my engaging you; and please do not attack my widow and my children in retribution for my misjudgement of your superiority in my corner of the world after my imminent death.

You will know me, I will die sometime in Buenos Aires the week of May 26th from Suicide by Puta. That is only if there are any ones left after you visit and show them the way to being an intellectually superior being and breaking the prison chains of prostitution.

But before I die, can you please tell me what the F*** this statement means: "That's why I call my mongering junkets to BA, Pretending to be living in Europe at Bangkok prices".

You obviously are strong and I am weak. You are Tony Robbins, Stephen Covey, Dr. Phil and Oprah all rolled into one with your gifts of persuasion and intelligence. To steal a line from Slim Pickens in Blazing Saddles, "Mr. Lamar (Black Shirt) you use your tongue like a twenty-dollar W****". You are one silver tongued devil.

I love you Black Shirt; Hold me.

One more thing Black Shirt, I have a "Nugget" for you. But it ain't Golden.

P. S. - Can I go to Bangkok too?

QuakHunter

04-23-09, 14:37

The next time we are in BsAs at the same time your first beer is on me. Few people on this forum are able to argue ideas without making them personal and respecting the right of the person you disagree with to believe as they do. In addition I respect how you discuss differing political views while keeping them in perspective and remember there are many things in life MUCH more important.

Viva la Prostitucion!Daddy, I can not take your beer. Black Shirt took my post personally and I cannot in good faith take your offer if it is based on my NOT making things personal. That is why your first beer is on me and you can buy my second.

Let's both wear Black Shirts. They are very slimming.

Rev BS

04-23-09, 14:41

Sure, and I'll be glad to show you around, my mongering brother.

QuakHunter

04-23-09, 14:42

Sure, and I'll be glad to show you around, my mongering brother.That might be fun. Carry on!

Rock Harders

04-28-09, 15:56

Exon123

04-28-09, 16:11

I agree with you Rock Harders but I don't want that CockSucker Spector in my party, he's probably just a spy anyway. He's a piece of shit when I'm talking nice about him.

Exon

Hunt99

04-28-09, 16:13

Specter has already been voting in favor of the socialist agenda, how exactly is changing the letter at the end of his name from "R" to "D" going to change things?

The only reason this occurred was because this politician faced losing his seat in the GOP primary in the spring. He was already 10% behind a virtually unknown challenger.

This has as much practical effect as changing the name of your chica from "Roberta" to "Daniela." She's still a hooker, and he's going to continue voting the same way.

The Democrats and their allies pushing through borrow and spend are in serious trouble. The clock is ticking on them, with the probability of massive Democrat losses in the upcoming midterms, they will likely be trying to use the panic over swine flu to give them more excuses to spend more money. Until the voters turn off the spigot.

The Democrats have about as many members of Congress now as they did in 1993. Students of history remember what happened in 1994.

QuakHunter

04-28-09, 16:26

Mongers,

Well, things are about to get alot worse for the dwindling number of neo-cons remaining on this board and in the USA. Senator Arlen Spector, a 29 year veteran of the Senate, has announced he is switching parties and joining the Democratic ranks. This means that when Al Franken is seated (he has been judged the winner by the Minnesota Supreme Court) the Democrats will have a 60-seat filibuster-proof majority in the Senate, which means they can essentially do whatever they want and the Republicans can't do anything about it. This means Obama will now have so-called "supermajorities" in both Houses of Congress, and judging by this and his high personal approval ratings, will be able to push his agenda through unopposed.

Suerte,

Rock HardersSpecter was Republican in name only. No big loss to the GOP and the PA Repubs knew this.

And those dwindling numbers of "Neo-Cons" will be repopulated in "supermajority" numbers. Kind of like after the Carter years. Remember those years under Reagan? The most prosperous in decades before and since when supply-side was practiced and Keynesian economics sidelined.

His 100 day approval rating is "almost exactly the average for an elected president at 100 days in polls back to Dwight Eisenhower. But it belies a more modern partisan gap: Ninety-three percent of Democrats approve. Only 36 percent of Republicans agree" according to the latest ABC News / Washington Post poll. GWB had more Dems than O has Republicans at the same point. I guess this means we are all dumbshits, but the Dems are obviously a little more partisan. I guess Government Cheese might do that to you.

BTW, for the fourth time: What is a "Neo-Con"? And please, something more than Neo-Conservative in your explanation.

QuakHunter

04-28-09, 17:23

Exon123

04-28-09, 18:16

Arlen Spector is a piece of shit, was an investigating attorney on the "Warren Commission" if any of you "Turd's" can remember back that far he was a Crook Prosecutor in Pa, I was told by one of my jail mates one time. But that MotherFucker hangs out with Oren Hatch on the Senate Juduiary Commitee and you can always judge a man by the company he keep's, enought said.

The CockSucker.

Exon

Hunt99

04-28-09, 18:51

Jackson

04-28-09, 19:51

Wild Walleye

04-28-09, 20:26

Next on the list are Collins and Snow.

None of them are conservatives and their important votes almost always go left.

History will show who was right (I. E. Correct) and who was wrong. The problem of being proven right in playing russian roulette is what good is being right (I. E. Correct) if you're dead?

I for one think the stakes are too high to throw out the Constitution on a whim. I don't think that I am alone in that. I suspect that we will see a fairly strong indication, as to whether or not America has thrown in the towel, in the midterm elections.

QuakHunter

04-28-09, 20:41

Watch what Lieberman and Jeffords do.

Wild Walleye

04-29-09, 12:57

Any good liberal knows that Reagan had the CIA create HIV in order to kill off the homosexuals and other deviants.

Using that logic, shouldn't we at least consider that Obama had the CIA develop this strain of swineflu as an weapon to kill off the infidels? Pretty ironic (using swine to eliminate infidels)

Jackson

04-29-09, 14:07

BTW, for the fourth time: What is a "Neo-Con"? And please, something more than Neo-Conservative in your explanation.QuakHunter,

As nearly as I can surmise, a "Neo-Con" is anybody who doesn't agree with the Neo-Libs, the ECLs, or the WCLs.

Thanks,

Jackson

Hunt99

04-29-09, 15:24

BadMan

05-03-09, 02:25

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8030727.stm

Any thoughts?

Regards,

BM.

StrayLight

05-03-09, 03:05

The signs are all there...blah blah blahYeah, the signs are all there that guys like you are still delusional. At every step of the way during the primary and election season you sprouted the same crap. And what happened? You got slam dunked big time! LOL!

Let me 'splain it to you, Lucy...at some point the Republican Party will certainly come around. But that day is so freaking far off that all we really need to worry about is one of you assholes getting so desperate as to...well, never mind.

Keep dreaming, Hunt.

SL

Tiny12

05-03-09, 20:01

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/8030727.stm

Any thoughts?

Regards,

BM.It's self serving. He runs insurance companies. His second biggest portfolio holding is Wells Fargo. He has a big stake in Goldman Sachs. When the U. S. Government bails out financial companies, Warren Buffet benefits.

El Alamo

05-04-09, 08:40

The following evaluation is probably correct.

1) Warren Buffet probably is not the smartest guy inthe world but he is also not the stupidest.

2) Warren Buffet is sucking up to Obama just like Halliburton sucked up to Bush. Nothing wrong with that.

However, what Warren Buffet also said in his recent evaluation of the American or world economy is frightening.

Warren Buffet said significant inflation, under present policies, is inevitable. He also said that his good buddy Obama seemed incapable of taking measures to ward off that inflation.

If we end up with significant inflation (nobody knows what significant is) we may look back at Obama's economic cure as being worse than the underlying disease.

Inflation can be wrung out of an economy (inflation was wrung out of the United States economy in the early 1980's) but it requires draconian measures and strong leadership.

We now have negative economic growth and low inflation. My prediction is that we are headed for negative or flat economic growth with worrisome inflation.

P.S. inflation is being fueled, in part, by all the pork in the latest economic stimulus package

Member #4112

05-04-09, 13:01

Exon123

05-04-09, 13:32

The condition you describe is called "Stagflation", a condition of low or no growth and high inflation. For our radical O fans check out Jimmy Carter's term as president. I had to try and earn a living through it and what it took to get us out under Regan. It was not pretty.It started with Lyndon Johnson's "Gun's & Butter" policy durning Veitnam, Nixon even tried wage & price controls in 1971 to stop it. By the time Ford took office inflation was rampart and fed chairman Volker created a recession to stop it by raising interest rate's. Then the stagflation of Carter. The money was still in the economy but the recession was still there created by Volker.

Reagan however deregulated everything creating Lazyfair capitalism, creating Republican Theives I like to call them. The CockSuckers. It worked for quite a while untill the mortgage crisis started to unwind eveything, which has led to the economic crisis we're all in to day.

Exon Knows.

Exon

Tiny12

05-04-09, 16:13

Reagan however deregulated everything creating Lazyfair capitalism, creating Republican Theives I like to call them. The CockSuckers. It worked for quite a while untill the mortgage crisis started to unwind eveything, which has led to the economic crisis we're all in to day.

Exon Knows.

ExonLazyfair capitalism? Republicans are thieves and CockSuckers? But Democrat politicians aren't? About the mortgage crisis, there's plenty of blame to go around, and Democrat politicians like Barney Frank and Maxine Waters were up to their necks in it, just as were many Republicans. And as were stupid bankers and stupid homeowners and stupid investors who thought buying a $500,000 house with a $50,000/year salary made sense.

Reagan is a good part of the reason why the U. S. has had a dynamic, growing economy over the last 30 years while places like continental western Europe have stagnated. You're right though, that government was lax in regulating commercial and investment banks and GSE's. It should have never allowed them to become as leveraged as they did.

Exon123

05-04-09, 18:50

Lazyfair capitalism? Republicans are thieves and CockSuckers? But Democrat politicians aren't? About the mortgage crisis, there's plenty of blame to go around, and Democrat politicians like Barney Frank and Maxine Waters were up to their necks in it, just as were many Republicans. And as were stupid bankers and stupid homeowners and stupid investors who thought buying a $500,000 house with a $50,000/ year salary made sense.

Reagan is a good part of the reason why the U. S. Has had a dynamic, growing economy over the last 30 years while places like continental western Europe have stagnated. You're right though, that government was lax in regulating commercial and investment banks and GSE's. It should have never allowed them to become as leveraged as they did.Trust me I'm privy to people and information your not. These things don't just happen over night it take years for policy's and economic systems to work threw the economy.

Reagan set it up with deregulation and the "trickel down" economics. By the end of his 8 years everything looked hunkie dorry Carter looked like a Fuck. Reagan was the hero and it worked for 20 years. Now your seeing it unwind and everyone is deleveraging. Putting the entire world in recession.

Reagans people stole everything that wasn't nailed down.

Exon

Member #4112

05-04-09, 19:08

QuakHunter

05-04-09, 19:17

Going to have to argue with you there Exxon. The Dems laid the foundations for the mortgage crisis back in the early 90's when they forced lenders to lower lending standards "so eveyone could enjoy home ownership". The Dems also over saw the crash via good old Barney Frank and Criss (I got my loan) Dodd. Don't get me wrong there were plenty of scalawags who rode this horse till it died, but the Dems saddled him up for them.Did you notice it all kind of started after Jimmy Swaggart got busted with that Hooker in Louisiana in 1988?

He should have gone to Argentina. Not really a point here, I just thought Jimmy was a little goofy and I loved it when he got busted.

Exon123

05-04-09, 21:11

Did you notice it all kind of started after Jimmy Swaggart got busted with that Hooker in Louisiana in 1988?

He should have gone to Argentina. Not really a point here, I just thought Jimmy was a little goofy and I loved it when he got busted.Actually your pretty close to being right on target. And Swarggart & Jimmy Barker are two of the best examples of "Kamra" I've ever seen. You will reep the seeds you so, or what goes around comes around. Republican motherfuckers I might add. Rightious cocksuckers.

Prove's, like Hittler, the bigger the lie the more people want to believe in it. I. E. Ronald Reagan.

But It really started the year before in 1987, the last year of Reagans presidency. When Exon's handy work, accidendtly unkownly, triggered the 87 stock market crash. But this time I had nothing to do with it. But it was Reagans policy's and his line of thinking thats brought to where we are today.

If I'm lucky and Eric Holder goes his job, "Cain" he's called in some circles. You'll all here some startliing news comeing out of Salt Lake city, That will be the end result of the 87 crash and people Fucking with Exon. A project I've been working on for 22 years. Which is culimating now, which I've been working night and day for a month on, getting only 3 or 4 hours sleep a night.

Exon Knows.

Exon

Foot note: El Alamo post a few just down beneath me is exactly what will happen

Snowbird

05-04-09, 23:13

The signs are all there: all their candidates for the Virginia governorship that they've held for 8 years are behind the Republican nominee by a substantial margin. The same thing is true in New Jersey, with the incumbent Democrat governor far behind his GOP challenger. The New York Congressional seat by election was barely held by the Democrats in a district that went for Obama by 20 points in November.

And add to this the unpopularity of the Democratic legislative program - we have the makings of a massive Democrat loss in next year's elections.

Better act fast Democrats, before you return to minority status. See if you can seize control of the health care system to go with government control of the banking and auto industries. Just so long as you don't nationalize Domino's Pizza, my food supply will be safe. Otherwise some Washington bureaucrat would be telling me I am only allowed to eat alfalfa sprouts and bean curd salad.Although I think Obama has made the situation worse by a factor of 5 I have not seen the Republicans put forth an alternative. They have just pointed out the obivious. What amazes me is how the Obama administration has totally socialized so many institutions like the auto industry. Telling the secured bond holders they are going to take 10% and like it while giving 53% to the unions who paid nothing. When I was a mere lad and the unions were going on strike against a profitable industry who had no competition our wonderful federal goverment intervened and brokered the deal that we have today. It screwed both the workers with a plan that was not sustainable and the company who was not given a choice. Better for them to have fought it out. The workers would not have gotten as much but neither would have the company bleed themselves to death. I remember an elder telling me that this would be the ruin of the industry and they would be bankrupt in 40 years. This man has passed on. But he was right. The Obama administration has yoked us with a burden so great that we will not get out from underneath it for 25 years. On the other hand the economy starting with Clinton has been built on cheap money without the ability to pay so Obama was right when he stated that the growth was illusionary. He is right. What he is doing now is illusionary too.

Exon123

05-04-09, 23:46

Although I think Obama has made the situation worse by a factor of 5 I have not seen the Republicans put forth an alternative. They have just pointed out the obivious. What amazes me is how the Obama administration has totally socialized so many institutions like the auto industry. Telling the secured bond holders they are going to take 10% and like it while giving 53% to the unions who paid nothing. When I was a mere lad and the unions were going on strike against a profitable industry who had no competition our wonderful federal goverment intervened and brokered the deal that we have today. It screwed both the workers with a plan that was not sustainable and the company who was not given a choice. Better for them to have fought it out. The workers would not have gotten as much but neither would have the company bleed themselves to death. I remember an elder telling me that this would be the ruin of the industry and they would be bankrupt in 40 years. This man has passed on. But he was right. The Obama administration has yoked us with a burden so great that we will not get out from underneath it for 25 years. On the other hand the economy starting with Clinton has been built on cheap money without the ability to pay so Obama was right when he stated that the growth was illusionary. He is right. What he is doing now is illusionary too.Where were you when told everyone to line up because they were going to hand out "Brains"

Exon

Jackson

05-05-09, 00:22

Republican motherfuckers I might add. Rightious cocksuckers.The fact is that Exon, with whom I have had extensive conversations over the years, is in favor of self reliance, personal responsibility, lower taxes, smaller government, a strong military, controlled borders, less regulation, less social engineering, and many other tenants of conservative thinking.

However, at some point in his younger years he believes that he was somehow "dissed" by some bureaucrat / prosecutor / judge / etc. who he believes was a Republican, and ever since then he has harbored a hatred for all things Republican, a hatred that he nurtures by watching CNN / MSNBC / NBC programs in which he revels in the constant bashing of said hated Republicans.

He's still a great guy.

Thanks,

Jackson.

BTW, I believe that Exon harbors a similar experience that explains his dislike of Mormons, but that's another story.

Jackjack1

05-05-09, 01:04

Tiny12

05-05-09, 01:15

Where were you when told everyone to line up because they were going to hand out "Brains"

Exon398487

Exon123

05-05-09, 11:04

The fact is that Exon, with whom I have had extensive conversations over the years, is in favor of self reliance, personal responsibility, lower taxes, smaller government, a strong military, controlled borders, less regulation, less social engineering, and many other tenants of conservative thinking.

However, at some point in his younger years he believes that he was somehow "dissed" by some bureaucrat / prosecutor / judge / etc. who he believes was a Republican, and ever since then he has harbored a hatred for all things Republican, a hatred that he nurtures by watching CNN / MSNBC / NBC programs in which he revels the constant bashing of said hated Republicans.

He's still a great guy.

Thanks,

Jackson.

BTW, I believe that Exon harbors a similar experience that explains his dislike of Mormons, but that's another story.Actually Jackson's not to far from the truth with the above. I do have a lot of Republican tendency's, but I'd never vote for the MotherFuckers.

Probably the difference between Republicans & Demorcrat's is the Republican's are much better organized than the Dem's. The Rep's all pull together as a team, where as the Dem's are all over the Fucking place working against and even beating up on each other while the Rep's sit back and watch with smile's on the faces.

Thats "Freedom" MotherFucker's, open debate, disagreement thats the way the system was designed by the founding father's of the Constitution. Those guy's by the way were much like us Mongers. Ben Franklin as a example was one of history's greatest Womanizer's, the guy loved pussy, was famious for it, but at the sametime a brillant MotherFucler.

Modern day Republicism was founded by Berry Goldwater, in today's world a right leading middle of the road Democrat. Ronald Reagan, a Democrat at the time, 1964, switched party's and joined Goldwater and his crusade to carry that torch. Nixon had his turn, (a much better President history has given him credit for) then Ford a Lame Duck from the start, then Carter. Carter never stood a chance. He was hampered by the stagflation, created by Paul Volker raising intrest rate's to stop inflation. Plus the failed mission to rescue hostage's in Iran. Now it was Ronald Reagan's turn.

Reagan lost complete control of the direction of Republican party. By delagating authority to the people that created today's Republican way of thinking. (I've heard this happend because of the bullet Hinkely put in him, but that's another story) George Bush 41, Dick Chaney, George Bush 43 the list go's on & on.

To build a consensus and get elected, they invited all those bible belt state's, historicly Demoractic since the Civil War and gave them a seat at the table, a Big Voice. Think about it, all those Southern states were once hard core Democrat's, since Lincoln, the South hated him, are now Republican.

CockSuckers like Jerry Faldwell, Oral Roberts, disgraced preacher's discused below gained real power, taking our freedom's by the consessions the Republican's gave them it get elected, many example's abortion, guy rights, even sex, no anal in the Repoblican party, for those that like that sort of thing. Rightious MotherFuckers.

Anyway I've got more important thing's to due this morning. I'll get into what Thieve's they became latter.

To Be Continued.

Exon

QuakHunter

05-05-09, 11:38

Actually Jackson's not to far from the truth with the above. I do have a lot of Republican tendency's, but I'd never vote for the MotherFuckers.

Probably the difference between Republicans & Demorcrat's is the Republican's are much better organized than the Dem's. The Rep's all pull together as a team, where as the Dem's are all over the Fucking place working against and even beating up on each other while the Rep's sit back and watch with smile's on the faces.

Thats "Freedom" MotherFucker's, open debate, disagreement thats the way the system was designed by the founding father's of the Constitution. Those guy's by the way were much like us Mongers. Ben Franklin as a example was one of history's greatest Womanizer's, the guy loved pussy, was famious for it, but at the sametime a brillant MotherFucler.

Modern day Republicism was founded by Berry Goldwater, in today's world a right leading middle of the road Democrat. Ronald Reagan, a Democrat at the time, 1964, switched party's and joined Goldwater and his crusade to carry that torch. Nixon had his turn, (a much better President history has given him credit for) then Ford a Lame Duck from the start, then Carter. Carter never stood a chance. He was hampered by the stagflation, created by Paul Volker raising intrest rate's to stop inflation. Plus the failed mission to rescue hostage's in Iran. Now it was Ronald Reagan's turn.

Reagan lost complete control of the direction of Republican party. By delagating authority to the people that created today's Republican way of thinking. (I've heard this happend because of the bullet Hinkely put in him, but that's another story) George Bush 41, Dick Chaney, George Bush 43 the list go's on & on.

To build a consensus and get elected, they invited all those bible belt state's, historicly Demoractic since the Civil War and gave them a seat at the table, a Big Voice. Think about it, all those Southern states were once hard core Democrat's, since Lincoln, the South hated him, are now Republican.

CockSuckers like Jerry Faldwell, Oral Roberts, disgraced preacher's discused below gained real power, taking our freedom's by the consessions the Republican's gave them it get elected, many example's abortion, guy rights, even sex, no anal in the Repoblican party, for those that like that sort of thing. Rightious MotherFuckers.

Anyway I've got more important thing's to due this morning. I'll get into what Thieve's they became latter.

To Be Continued.

ExonHere is the Cliff Notes version of Exon's 1st post above:

I like to fuck.
I like to make money.
I don't like people taking my money.
I really like to fuck.
I want you to leave me the fuck alone while I'm fucking.
I don't want all you homies up in my grille messin' wit' my bidness'
I constantly think about fucking.
The Republicans have lost their way.
I will still fuck Republican chicas.

Glad I could clarify things.

Moore

05-06-09, 02:59

I just can't believe an attempt was made at "laissez-faire"!

Jackson

05-06-09, 03:15

I just can't believe an attempt was made at "laissez-faire"!Exon123, the great intellectual that he is, used the phrase "Lazyfair capitalism", the meaning to which I haven't yet ascertained.

As soon as I hear from The Great Oracle himself, I'll update my Exonspeak - English dictionary.

Thanks,

Jackson

Bizzie

05-06-09, 03:23

Exon123, the great intellectual that he is, used the phrase "Lazyfair capitalism", the meaning to which I haven't yet ascertained.

As soon as I hear from The Great Oracle himself, I'll update my Exonspeak - English dictionary.

Thanks,

Jackson"Lazyfair" did bring a smile to to face:)

I give him credit for being bold.

Exon123

05-06-09, 08:32

You CockSuckers know what I ment.

Has anyone been following this Arlen Specter thing, I told you guys he's a piece of Shit, Not only are the Democrate's Fucking him, but then the MothreFucker go's on Meet the Press and step's on his "Dick"

Finally this morning we learn its OK to torture prisoners and still take the moral "High Ground"

What a Country we have here in sex prison.

Exon

Wild Walleye

05-06-09, 13:35

Political debate is a great thing, moreover an essential element of our freedom, as is our pluralistic system for electing national and state representatives. If everyone had the same perspective we would be screwed and would repeat the mistakes of our past faster and more often than we do now.

The problem in my opinion is not in the system, it is in the people "we" chose to represent us. Unfortunately, the most common characteristics found in the people "we" chose are selfishness, self-perpetuation, power and greed. The only purpose their respective constituents serve is to elect them and re-elect them to office. Almost completely lacking in Washington is anyone with the moral fortitude to stand up for the SELF INTERESTS of their respective constituents. Further, very few if any elected officials within the Beltway have ever had a real job further distancing themselves from actually understanding what individual SELF INTERESTS really are (hint: they are a good thing that has made this country the greatest in the history of humankind and will bring it back from its current state despite debilitating, seemingly-insurmountable debts being heaped on future generations) That fault lies squarely at our feet, after all "we" picked them.

The party apparatchiks have long since tossed out the notion of presenting candidates whereby we can vote for quality and substance over party politics. Perhaps we have reached a point where the rank and file will have an opportunity to.

While I am at it. Two other points:

Reagan did not guide or set the Republican party on a path away from Conservatism. The leadership of the GOP and our elected representatives (with the aforementioned characteristics) turned left in the misguided notion that 1) more people will like them, 2) they will get elected or re-elected, and 3) the left will embrace them as sensible, bi-partisans. They were wrong on all three accounts. All they really accomplished was further compromising what little principals they had left and reinforcing the fact that they are really all about advancing themselves and not their constiuents.

In my opinion, the definition of torture is watching political hacks try to destroy the lives of bright, dedicated individuals giving their best to defend the country, for purely political reasons and wrapping it all up in some BS legaleze.

A majority of Americans describe themselves as conservative (small "C") in favor of individual freedom and responsibility, smaller government, lower taxes and less government interference in both personal and business affairs. It sounds like Exon falls into this group. When the GOP comes back to its Conservative (big "C") principals (this does not mean pandering to fundamentalists it means being Conservatives as described above) and sticks to them, they will regain the trust of the American people and will have the opportunity to make significant gains in all elected offices. If they continue to eschew Conservatism, they will continue their losing ways.

Next up for the soapbox.

Wild Walleye

05-06-09, 16:07

His bow to the his King.

Exon123

05-06-09, 16:16

Told you guy's he's a CockSucker, The MotherFucker, both side have no use for him.

Hope Tom Ridge run's against him, he'll be "Beaten Like a Rented Mule"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090506/ap_on_go_co/us_specter_committees

Exon

Wild Walleye

05-06-09, 17:33

I bet his ass is stinging today after taking Reid's strap-on (actually, he probably borrowed one of Nancy's) all night long.

He deserves it, not for finally coming out of the closet and annoucing what we always knew (he's a democat, wow big surprise) but for so many years of lying to his constituents and pretending to be a Republican. His years of seniority shouldn't count for anything because, as he has clearly stated, his dismal senate career has been based on a lie and that he has really only pursued personal gain. He was seeking chairmanship of either appropriations or judiciary, by switching parties, based upon retaining his 28yrs of seniority (oops) He knew that his own expectations for longevity meant if he wanted to reach his personal goals, he would need to change parties. What a great guy and stellar example of the altruism we can find in so many of our elected officials (yes, I am being sarcastic) If you lay down with dogs, you are going to get fleas (and quite possibly fucked)

This dumb ass just scuttled any hope of reelection, he is now a turncoat and a freshman senator, for all intent and purpose. I guess he didn't notice that the Dems in Washington do not believe in honoring agreements (for example subverting the constitution and reams of contract law to give the UAW 55% of Chrysler) He also, if I may point out, reconfirms point #3 of my previous eloquence (no matter what you do as a RINO, the Libs will still hate you)

This sums up the beauty of last night's Democrat gang bang of Specter (from The Hill's Pundit Blog):

"The Senate last night voted to place Specter in junior slots in each of the committees. That it did so by a unanimous voice vote means that Specter, who told the press he would retain his seniority, raised no objection to his own political emasculation."

What the didn't say is that he couldn't speak because the Dems cut his dick off and stuffed it in his mouth.

The only downside I see here is that this will scare Collins and Snow into remaining Republicans instead of jumping ship too.

Ridge is no conservative so I hope he stays in Maryland doing whatever it is he is doing there (more than likely lobbying)

Trebek

05-06-09, 22:46

Well, foes of Obama don't seem to be fairing that well so far. Cleaning up the mess is going to take awhile (Madhoff, Blagogevich, Edwards, Bank of America, Citibank, GM Ceo - cya dude! Federal prosecutors being used more aggressively than usual. Wonder why?

The deal with fiat is a good sign. Chrysler and GM both going by the wayside. Good riddance. So sad to see all the big bankers needing to plead with the Treasury. Maybe in the future the "stress test" won't treat them so rudely.

We have health care put into motion. A soon to be 60 seat majority and control of the house. The Democratic Party is an arm of Obama's White House and his success shows no signs of slowing.

There is no leadership in the Republican party. Dick Cheney is reeling and a perpetual negative for his party. Who will step up, Michelle Bachmann, Cornyn, or Jeb Bush? I doubt it. The party of "NO."

Even Palin is preferable but the media won't give her the time of day and her daughter's boyfriend dumped her after she had his baby. Oops.

Telling Israel that "no one really gives a F" about you and a high speed rail network proposed.

So far a great 100 days!

Exon123

05-07-09, 18:17

Blackwater really hasn't gotten much press except fo the Murders 5 of them are going on trial for soon.

This tell's you a little about the Christain Republican MotherFuckers, who & where they came from and what there all about. Its only about 10 minutes long and you'll learn whats really been going in this country for a long time.

http://brasschecktv.com/page/174.html

Exon

P.S. Oh and Tom Ridge is from Pennsylvania, he was Governnor there

Trebek

05-15-09, 13:14

This outcry over the CIA lying to Congress once again exemplifies the flailing GOP and it's grasp to hold onto the rosey days of 2000.

The party of crying, whining, and criticism.

Do I belive that the CIA -- lies to Congress all the time? Yes. Do I believe that they mislead Congress all the time? Yes.

Just the latest attempt at SABOTAGE.