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A bunch of guys have been emailing me asking where I get my exchange rate information. There are a ton of websites out there. I use www.xe.com because they are the only site I know of that uses live quotes. They even have a free service where you can sign up to get daily updates of the major exchange rates. I get an email every morning with the latest exchange rates.
http://www.xe.com/cus/ (to sign up).
Keep in mind that the going rate in Buenos Aires might be slightly different than what these websites have posted. But on transactions where you use your credit card I'm fairly certain it should be close.
Exchange rates for Argentina have been discussed on this and the BA thread. Also, potential investing on BA thread.
Wanted to pass along that has not gotten alot of notice here or in the press. The week or so after Argentina default the interest rate swaps predicted the peso declining to 3/$1US by six months. A year later it projected 6/$1US. Today's rate is at 3.57/$1US...
I think the market is being prescient. Personally, I would like to invest myself. Still, the market is indicating a much greater fall
in the coming year. Thus, I am holding off for a year...
Of course, this is just my unsolicited opinion and worth very little. Regardless, it is going to be very interesting.
re: currency exchange and credit card usage.
as opposed to the postings listed below, you definitely will NOT get the rates as posted. your financial institution will charge you a spread for the conversion PLUS (sometimes) a surcharge. for example, the bank of america visa gold charge a flat 3% on any foreign purchase. the bank stated that it provides the "best" institutional exchange rate for the day of transaction. there are multiple interpretations to what the "best" rate is, whether it is the best rate during the trading day or the rate at close of market. i have personally verified and found that BofA's rate is a few basis point worse than the best trading rate during the trading day but many times better than the rate quoted at close of market. nonetheless, after paying 3% surcharge you are getting a raw deal anyways. based on what i know, if you have a corporate visa with BofA, then the surcharge drops to 1.5% so definitely check with your credit card companies to ascertain which card provides the best exchange rate AND the least surcharge.
I don't think anyone said you would get that exact rate of conversion. I only post the current rate to give people a general idea of the strength/weakness of the Argentine peso. My card did not charge me a surcharge fee for international purchases. You may want to ask them before you go. I have a Citibank Platinum Miles Card. Also, I know that my MBNA Quantum card charges no surcharge fee.
Many people stressed this earlier but it is essential to bring enough cash to last you for your trip. I know many are uncomfortable carrying that kind of cash around but things could change drastically again. Just imagine if they shut down all the banks again and you did not have any cash. You'd be S.O.L.
Also, don't change over too much money on one day. One of our friends only changed over $300 at a time while I usually hated waiting in line so I did like $1000 at a time. As long as you have cash you will be fine.
A few guys emailed me asking how much they should bring. That all depends on you and what you plan to do. A good rule of thumb is if you plan to see a girl during the day for a short visit (aprx. 150 pesos to 250 pesos average of 200 pesos) = around $60 US Then you go out at night to a few different clubs. Budget at least several hundred pesos for drinks and exit fees. Then expect to pay around 250 - 500 pesos for an all nighter. Keep in mind most places have an exit fee close to 100 pesos to get the girl out all night. That can add up to 800 pesos + per night with girl for TLN, drinks and tips. (Still only about $250 US) And my price estimates are very high. I personally would not pay more than 500 pesos for an all nighter with a gorgeous girl.
Budget money for food, some shopping, taxi rides (taxi's are very cheap). Money still adds up. If you live it up while you're down here you can still easily dump a few grand. The best thing was to convert your money and pay in Pesos everywhere you go. Just by you having American money you are already in a losing proposition. Of course they wanted American money much more than pesos. For instance, many girls quoted $100 or 250 pesos when the exchange rate was 3.1 to 1. $100 US = $310 pesos....so obviously you would pay them 250 pesos and keep the extra 60 pesos for you.
I still maintain to bring down tons of $1 bills and $5 bills. In the cabs I hever had small peso notes so I just always gave them $2 or $3 dollars and that was usually double of any 3-5 peso taxi fair. Also, tip your housekeeping staff well too and they will bring you whatever you need ASAP. Tipping the guys at the front desk assure no problem either.
Just to add my 2 cents to the conversation:
Three weeks ago I used my American Express card to charge my bill at the Etoile. It was the same day that the banks had re-opened after being closed for a week, and the Peso had surged to a strong showing of 2.97 per USD, only to lose strength in the ensuing days. However, I later discovered that American Express converted the peso charge into USD at a rate that calculated out to 2.60 pesos per dollar. My statement had no conversion rate in it's face, so I had to do the calculations myself.
In any event, I called American Express (you know, the guys with the commercials about how they just "love to talk to their card holders"). Those rat bastards wouldn't budge, even though I had in my hand the printouts from two currency conversion websites showing that the rate was at 2.97, and another statement from a visa card for purchases made on the same day that were converted at 2.95.
On the subject of how much to bring: I generally budget $200.00 USD per day, plus the hotel. Of course, I'm slightly generous with the girls, but I do end up bringing some of that cash back with me on my return. Still, I'm there to have a good time, not to count my pennies.
Jackson
Striker, Is there any historical comparison such as Brazil, Mexico, etc. that would give people an idea of the best time to invest?
What I am talking about is balancing the exchange rate with inflation and real estate investments.
Any posters have experience in buying foreign real estate in a situation like this? TIA
I am no forex expert. Am an older graduate
student in a highly relevant subject...
The current consensus, it seems, is that the
$US is poised to fall relative to the euro and
yen. Do not know the subsequent outcome for
emerging currencies. My guess emerging market
savings are either not exported to foreign markets
and/or not signifcant enough to drive the $US
downward on a relative basis. OTOH, their exports
may be adversely affected. Did you know that
over 80% of forex trades are between US, Euro,
Yen, British Pound.
Anyway, my post was to underscore the risk in
investing in Argentina (ie real estate).
Coincidentally, I have very similar dreams just
not sure exactly which country(ies). So far,
the swap projections I read shortly after the
meltdown/default occured are close to the mark.
My apologies for rambling and will try to keep
discussion relevant to Argentina.
"American Airlines Gets Coveted Route"
Not sure if this is applicable to anyone here but I just heard this morning the U.S. Department of Transportation just awarded American Airlines the coveted direct route to Buenos Aires.
Beginning on November 1st of this year, American is able to fly direct to Buenos Aires from Dallas/Ft. Worth Airport. "The new flights, at more than 5,100 miles, would give American its second longest international route out of DFW Airport, surpassed only by its nearly 6,500 mile Tokyo route."
appreciate the response from "Saint", "JWadd", Jackson and many others. i like the idea of bringing cash since it truly offers you the best rate, sometimes even better than the official rate as traded in the currency exchanges. question becomes, are you willing to carry a few thousand dollars walking around in an evironment where you are not too familiar with. this is a question i am struggling to come up w/ the best answer.
Johan,
Really the only time you are walking around with tons of cash is from the airplane arriving at EZE Airport to your hotel. Arrange private transportation with your hotel to have someone pick you up. The cost right now is very low. All hotels can help you arrange this via a nicer late model car or a limo type car. The rates are probably around 50-75 pesos. That person will pick you up and will have a sign with your name on it.
This is very safe. So, literally the only time you have all that money on you is the ride from the airport. When you check into your hotel room simply put your money into your room safe. Everyday only carry around with you what you need for that day. This is the safest option.
And just to let you know how safe it is. Most hotels only really have one key to the safe deposit box. During my stay, I lost my safe deposit key like the first or second night. (I know, I know...retardo boy). Anyway, the hotel had to have their locksmith come in and drill my lock open. It took a good 20 minutes or so to get it open but made me feel good that no one was getting my money or passport.
Hope that puts your mind at ease. Good luck.
Saint, thanks for the new on DFW. That works out great for me, especially if they have some introductory offers.
I am new to this 10 point scale of rating women. For anyone who watches NYPD Blue, how does the female hispanic detective rate on the 10 point scale? TIA
If you mean Jacqueline Obradors
http://us.imdb.com/EGallery?source=granitz&group=0850-alm&photo=obradors.jac&path=pgallery&path_key=Obradors,+Jacqueline
Then I would give her an 8 ...nice body but face fluctuates in photos between 7-8
Thanks, Shiny. That's who I was talking about. She looks better on TV than in the photos, although that photo with her in the low-cut pink dress did wonders for me.
If she is an 8 then I think I will be a very happy man in Brazil and Argentina.
Saint, how does she compare to the women in Blacks and Playwomen?
Jackson, Amex screwed me in December 2000 in Australia. I have not had any problems over the years with visa credit cards.
DCRain,
I don't watch that show but based on that picture on that site, I would agree with shiny. Her face/body look to be between a 7-8. If you like her look than you are going to be one happy camper at Black's. I'm more into blondes but Black's had tons and tons of Morenas (brunettes) that were much hotter than that girl. Playwoman also had girls younger and prettier in better shape than that actress.
If you like that girl you should go to Black's and see this girl from Uraguay that my friend saw. I can't remember her name but she is much prettier than that actress although they look similar. Black's is full of hot brunettes. Also, keep in mind that names might not matter. Very few of these girls, if any, go by their real names. So one day they might feel like being "Lisa".... the next week "Marta" the next week "Danielle". I'm not sure why they do that but I'm talking to two girls via email and phone and both indicated that happens.
As I told Starfe on the phone today, just read these reports to get a little picture of what to expect and look for but I'm sure Jackson, L.A. Larry and other guys that spend more time in BA can tell you..... you WILL find what you are looking for. If you don't, she will find you.
I can tell you that if the peso does happen to drop to obscene levels anywhere near 5 or 6 pesos to the dollar, I will make it my mission to buy a nice apartment in the Recoleta area. If it does make it to that hard to imagine level though the social unrest might make BA a different city. I already found a girl in B.A. that is fluent in English that said she would assist me in renting it out while I'm not there if I bought something. I also think we could start a good network of good guys to rent the place to during the year. If it is nicely furnished and in Recoleta it would be a win/win situation for everyone.
P.S. I might want to go to Brazil for 1-2 days in December. Do I need to get a Visa to visit Brazil if I'm in Argentina? I know that I need a visa to go to Brazil directly from the US. Thanks in advance to those that know.
Saint,
Unless you are a dual national with an Argentine DNI card the answer is YES YOU WILL NEED A VISA. It will cost about 65USD. Read below for the details.
A passport and visa are required for Americans traveling to Brazil for any purpose. Brazilian visas must be obtained in advance from the Brazilian Embassy or consulate nearest to the traveler's place of residence. There are no "airport visas," and immigration authorities will refuse entry to Brazil to anyone not possessing a valid visa. All Brazilian visas, regardless of validity, are considered invalid if not used within 90 days of the issuance date. Immigration authorities will not allow entry into Brazil without a valid visa.
I believe the predictions about the worsening US $ - Argentine Peso ratio are accurate. Here is an article that shows the Argentina economic situation is getting worse. 15% contraction in the Argentinian economy predicted for 2002.
http://www.nasdaq.com/asp/quotes_news.asp?textpath=D:\www\Nasdaq\news\35\2002\05\29\200205290930DOWJONESDJONLINE000395.html
today, the US Dollar fell to 14 month low. Euro is the way to go...
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk,&s2=ad_right1_topfin&tp=ad_topright_topfin&refer=topfin&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&bt=ad_position1_topfin&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=APPU5nxUDRG9sbGFy
This article was in the New York Times today. This move should be a step in the right direction to help things in Buenos Aires. I think eventually the IMF will step in with aid for Argentina. Once that happens we might not see such a great exchange rate. As of yesterday, the rate was still over 3.5 pesos to the US Dollar.
June 1, 2002
Argentina Eases Freeze on Savings
By REUTERS
BUENOS AIRES, May 31 (Reuters) — President Eduardo Duhalde of Argentina signed a decree today partly lifting a freeze of bank deposits that has paralyzed the economy and become a focus of public anger against the government.
The decree, announced by the cabinet chief, Alfredo Atanasof, will most likely offer depositors the chance to exchange their frozen cash savings for government bonds.
The freeze of billions of dollars of savings was instituted in December to end a run on banks by nervous investors. The exit of savings threatened to topple the financial system.
The decree also pushed Argentina closer to a series of conditions set by the International Monetary Fund for the government to receive billions of dollars in vital financial aid. In another development, the federal government reached an accord with Buenos Aires province, the richest and most indebted province in the country, to cut deficit spending. That accord was also a crucial step to fulfilling I.M.F. conditions.
Here is another article:
June 2, 2002
Argentina Eases Freeze on Bank Accounts
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
BUENOS AIRES, June 1, (AP) — Argentina announced an ambitious plan today to slowly phase out a hated banking freeze, offering savings account holders a choice of bonds maturing in between 3 and 10 years.
Depositors can now convert billions of dollars in savings trapped in banks since December into bonds under the plan, which the economy minister, Roberto Lavagna, promised would rebuild a financial system near collapse.
Critics complained that the plan makes depositors wait for years to get their savings back, but Mr. Lavagna said it is the only way to end the freeze without putting the nation's tottering banking system at risk.
The banking freeze, imposed Dec. 1 to prevent the banking system from collapsing, sparked violent rioting that toppled President Fernando de la Rúa.
Private analysts estimate some $22.5 billion remains penned up by the freeze, which has inspired near daily protests by people demanding their savings back
This is the text of a recent article I read. It will give you a very good idea of the economic situation over there. It makes you realize how lucky you are to be living in the USA (although I still wouldn't mind living in BA if I was independently wealthy).
Leaving homeland for U.S., Argentines try to start over
Immigrants seek refuge from economic troubles of Latin America
06/03/2002
By RICARDO CHAVIRA
The Argentine couple saw faint signs of the coming calamity more than two years ago – long before the current crisis hit their native country. And a successful Buenos Aires businessman detected looming economic disaster in the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11.
Frightened of what lay ahead in their country, the couple and the businessman separately gathered up their money, a few possessions and fled their native Argentina and headed more than 5,200 miles north to Dallas, determined to forge new lives.
These three recent immigrants represent a demographic departure from the "typical" undocumented immigrant from Latin America.
Most of those who have left Argentina, say American and Argentine officials, are university-educated professionals who once held steady jobs, or were entrepreneurs forced out of business as the economy collapsed.
"The truth is our country had been in economic crisis for years," said María, who along with other Argentines living here illegally asked that their full names not be used.
"But when my husband and I started seeing that companies were firing everyone over 40, we knew we would have to leave," she added. "My husband was 30 and making decent money. But in 10 years, what would we do? The future scared us."
The couple and their young daughter traveled to Dallas on tourist visas in August 2000 and simply stayed after their visas expired, hoping to blend in, unnoticed and undetected.
"Many of them live in fear that they will be caught at any moment and deported. For them, that would be devastating. It's a real fear, because people here have been picked up and sent back," said Jorge Cortés, president of the Argentine Center of Dallas and a legal U.S. resident since 1964.
Gaining legal status is a daunting task. Immigrants must have an employer sponsor and hire a lawyer. The process takes several years and thousands of dollars in legal fees.
The couple and the businessman, along with thousands of other Argentines, have emigrated as Argentina's economy has slipped from recession to near-collapse in the last several months. While many have moved to Spain, Italy or Israel, in the last two years an estimated 90,000 Argentines have settled illegally in the United States, including about 2,000 in the Dallas area.
A large concentration of Argentine immigrants are in the Northeast, with other significant populations in Miami, Houston, Los Angeles and San Francisco.
Unemployment in Argentina has jumped to 24 percent, and underemployment – those who work sporadically – stands at 20 percent. The country's foreign debt is a staggering $135 billion, and there is no sign that the nation can repay creditors anytime soon. Inflation is rampant.
Today, María, an accountant, works as a cashier and janitor. Her husband, an electrical engineer, works as a computer technician. Their son was born a month after they arrived in Dallas.
"Everyone we knew in Buenos Aires said we were crazy to leave, because the situation wasn't that bad then," recalled María, 28. "Now all of them are out of work. My sister criticized me because I'm an accountant who cleans buildings. 'Yes,' I say to her, 'but I make $15 an hour, and back home I would not have a job.' "
Economic factors
Mr. Cortés of the Argentine Center says these are the worst economic times in his native country that he can recall.
"In Argentina we always used to say times may get hard, but nobody goes hungry. Well, this year for the first time I saw people going hungry, said Mr. Cortés, an executive at a Plano software company who has vacationed in Argentina every year for the last 34 years.
"We as an organization don't encourage people to leave the country, but many see no other way out," Mr. Cortés said.
Certainly, the Buenos Aires businessman, Miguel, saw no alternative to living illegally in Plano.
"My father and I had two clothing factories, and we did very well for a long time," the 38-year-old said. "But two months after the peso was devalued, we had to close the factories. On Sept. 11, a friend called and told me I should withdraw all of my money, because we were going to feel bad economic effects. I withdrew everything, $60,000, and two months later the government froze all bank accounts."
He arrived in Dallas in early February, just days before the U.S. Justice and State departments severely toughened requirements for tourist visas to Argentines after officials concluded that growing numbers of them were staying beyond the 90-day visa limit.
"It was not our intention to single out Argentina," a State Department official said. "But once it became clear that tourist visas were being widely misused, we had no choice but to tighten up. Argentines are still applying for tourist visas, but now our assumption is that they intend to immigrate to the United States."
Miguel joined his two brothers who moved to the area last year. He said that he has worked as a janitor at a Wal-Mart store and as a busboy. "That's a long way from owning your own business," he said with a rueful smile. "But at least I am able to make a living."
María echoed that sentiment. "I would rather be living and working here illegally than trying to survive in Argentina," she said. "In Buenos Aires we lived in my in-laws' apartment, and the furniture was theirs.
"Here," she said, gesturing around a small but neatly furnished apartment in Farmers Branch, "we have our own apartment. The furniture is ours, and we own a car."
Argentina had long attracted immigrants, millions from Italy, Spain and Germany. More recently, impoverished Bolivians, Peruvians and Paraguayans entered Argentina illegally and took on the least-desirable jobs.
"We Argentines have a reputation for being arrogant," said María, "because we were better-off than most of Latin America. We even used to make fun of the way Bolivian immigrants speak Spanish.
"I speak very little English, and so sometimes people at work get impatient with me," she said. "Because I have blond hair and blue eyes, they say, 'You look American. Why don't you speak English?' So now I know what it feels like to be considered inferior."
María is determined to learn English, she said. Her husband is already fluent.
Pablo is a 40-year-old janitor who said he moved to Dallas 10 months ago. In his native Buenos Aires, he said, he held a wide variety of jobs and never experienced severe economic hardships until about two years ago.
One recent morning, Pablo, still sleepy after working a graveyard shift, described the desperate plight he and millions of other Argentines faced.
"So many of us who are here illegally have college educations and professional careers, " he said. "Yet, inflation was robbing us of buying power. It might seem unbelievable, but no matter how hard we worked, we just kept getting deeper in debt."
Hugo, 25, said he is a jack-of-all-trades, juggling temporary jobs such as landscaping, waiting tables and construction work. A self-taught artist, Hugo said he mostly relies on his job at a tattoo shop for his livelihood. His deep-brown arms and legs are covered in extravagant tattoos. "I am happy to be here because I have the opportunity to work," he said.
Like most undocumented Argentine workers, Hugo, a native of Jujuy province in northern Argentina, uses false ID to work.
Little to miss
He and others interviewed said they mainly miss friends and family back home, but little else about Argentina.
Pablo said he and others feel little attachment to the country because of what he calls a long succession of brutal dictatorships, followed by profoundly corrupt governments.
"The dictators killed many people," he said, "and the other governments have ruined the lives of millions of others. My own mother said, 'I don't blame you for leaving.'"
In Dallas, Pablo said, "I have found work that pays me enough to live fairly well and send money to my family."
Mr. Cortés, the Argentine association president, said his trip to Argentina last month brought home the severe brain drain that the country faces.
"I have a nephew who is about to get a doctorate in biology," he said. "I asked him what he was going to do after he graduates, and he doesn't know. ... There are doctors working at hospitals who haven't been paid in six months. People can't hang on forever."
Recent surveys in Argentina have found that up to 76 percent of young Argentines would like to leave the country.
Intellectual exodus
Argentine officials acknowledge that the best and brightest are departing.
"The people immigrating to the United States are mainly professionals who cannot visualize a future here," said Fernando Grey, a spokesman for the Social Development Ministry. "They could offer a lot to Argentina, and emigration will cause serious damage to the country."
Karina and Martin Tolcachier are among those poised to leave.
"I'm leaving due to circumstances beyond my control," said Mrs. Tolcachier, a schoolteacher who has had her salary cut. Meanwhile, orders at her husband's mattress factory have plunged.
So, the couple and their 2-year-old son are bound for Miami. "We want to grow in our professions, and we are not going to have that opportunity in Argentina," she said.
With the U.S. granting almost no tourist visas, former businessman Miguel, and his brothers are working on a scheme to illegally reunite his brothers with their wives and four children.
The plan is to have them travel by air to Mexico, then pay smugglers to cross the family into Texas. He estimated the cost of the trip at about $17,000. "I just hope it all works out and they are safe," he said.
Miguel said that Argentina's economic crisis is so severe and the prospects for recovery so grim that he never expects to return home, unless immigration officers arrest and deport him. It's a view many Argentine undocumented immigrants share.
"We were once so convinced that we were on the right economic path," Miguel said, recalling that Argentina adopted International Monetary Fund measures intended to modernize the economy.
María agrees.
"Never in my wildest dreams did I think that life in my country would become a nightmare," she said. "Even after we first got here, I thought it might be a temporary stay. Now, I can't imagine ever going back."
Florencia Arbiser, a free-lance writer based in Buenos Aires, Argentina, contributed to this report.
news flash... arrived at the promissed land...60 degrees and not a cloud in the sky....conversion rate is 3.6 to one...most peole in line at the cambio were citizens cashing into dollars at 3.74 with a fifty dollar max....i cashed 400 dollars but had been stopped on my fourth hundred dollar bill because it was one of the old ones that have a 4 percent tax...drug money surcharge i would guess..after proving i was a US citizen i got the 3.6 on that bill..i feel very safe here and have walked around the recoletta area day and night...i am staying at the art suites...great room and on the same street as playwomen...firm beds by the way...the etoile is truly at the center of the restaurant row and all the places mentioned in the posts but for 60 bucks a day i have my own one bedroom apartment with kitchen, living room and a doorman....more to follow
Original post deleted when it asked me to log in a second time, so here goes.
I am considering a trip to Buenos Aires in October (around 16-30). Would consider moving a few days into late October-early November. Temperature appears to be in low 50-low 70's with about 4 inches of rain for the month. Is anyone else considering a trip in that time range.
The United airfare from Miami was only $537 ($10 more) for those dates than the summer fare prices. I only used Tuesday-Thursday dates. December was $617. United doesn't fly out of my home town so I will use frequent flier miles on another airline to get to Miami.
Has anyone purchased a handmade suit or a pair of good quality leather dress shoes since the devaluation? If so, was the price of local goods the same in pesos as before the devaluation?
I normally wear new looking dress leather tennis shoes with my docker pants. Are those types of shoes acceptable fashion wear in Buenos Aires?
DCRAIN,
Really anything will be fine fashion wise except shorts, t-shirts or blue jeans in the clubs. (And even blue jeans probably is ok). I always prefered to dress up a little bit but trust me... unless you look like a complete slob no one will stop you at the front door. All the places have a door guy but if you have money to spend I'm sure just about anything is acceptable. Keep in mind that people have a fashion sense here and tend to dress nicer.
I bought some clothes there but no leather goods. One of the dudes I was hanging with bought a ton of clothes. Custom shirts, leather jacket, etc. I'm not sure if he bought any leather shoes but everything was dirt cheap. I was just too busy with the chicas to do any shopping.
Here is the address of a place that made custom leather jackets if you wanna check it out:
Address: Florida 817 near Cordoba Street
Laffon Leathers
Viamonte 582
Telefone: 5411 4312-1508
I think he paid like $125 US for it....but not sure.
Yabba is correct. The exchange places do NOT like the old US bills so make sure you bring the brand new currency that looks like Monopoly money.
Thanks Saint. The reason I asked about the shoes is that they look fine with shirt and slacks, but seem out of place with a sports coat. I wear this type of outfit 7 days a week and was trying to avoid bringing 2 pairs of shoes. I will be happy to adjust to the local fashion scene, if necessary. How much did the custom shirts cost? tia
Have any of the women in your "favorite women report" left Argentina? I was really looking forward to spending some quality time with Lisa.
Thanks for the excellent reports by Saint, LAlarry and others. I promise to post a report - I will be in BA for a week from June 9. Yabba - if you are there look me up at Etoile Hotel (drop me an email - I will give more info)
maddur...call art suites at 5411 4821 6800 and ask for yabba...I will inform the staff that yabba is mr...........anyone else in town is welcome to do the same...will be here till i run out of gas....haha
Ppl:
I'new in this forum...I live in Buenos Aires, Argentina, so if any of you have any question about girls, or banks or whatever feel free to contact me. I will give a hand just for free, don't take me as a pimp or thief...
Just to know: an Escort service of Very good quality could be taken for only 100 - 150 pesos an hour. Today, 1 peso = 3.56 u$s(www.dolarsi.com), and dollars are higly prized.
I know many of the pubs and bars and many escorts and strippers, and I talk english well, so e-mail me if you need advice!
condicionadas@yahoo.com.ar
Asia de Cuba...folks, this restaurant is as good as it gets...just a ten minute cab ride from Recoletta into Porto Madera. Atmosphere is a ten. The food ranges from continental to sushi which was top grade and generous. It seems to me that the hostess, bartenders and waitresses were all selected from Miss Universe. Dinner here is surreal with synthetic snow on the floor, burning torches and alot of beautiful chica customers as well. It felt like I was on a hollywood set. This place converts to a disco at a certain time and dancing is till dawn. But the boys and I had different plans...
Can someone please tell me what the visa requirements are for Argentina. Can you apply at the Buenos Aires (EZE) airport upon arrival or do you have to apply in advance at one of their consulates in the USA?
Originally posted by Toosh
Can someone please tell me what the visa requirements are for Argentina. Can you apply at the Buenos Aires (EZE) airport upon arrival or do you have to apply in advance at one of their consulates in the USA?
No Visas for US Citizens
Hi
if you need know of Tantra and neotantra in Buenos Aires send me an email
ZorrillaT@aol.com
the
web site with information is
http://www.angelfire.com/zine/neotantra
Namaste
Hector H Zorrilla
I am thinking of a trip to Argentina in late July to both Buenos Aires and Mar del Plata and I have some guestions for those of you with some expericence there. What is the golf situation like? Are there many courses there? Considering the current economic situation there I am assuming that prices are low. Can you rent carts there (Ihave a bad knee)? Is it too cool and/or wet at that time of year to play?
Toosh:
You could play golf in the Buenos Aires Golf Club (located in the Palermo recreational area, next to the lakes). Other clubs are in the outskirts, but very dangerous to get there nowadays. There should be hundreds of professors in BAGC eager to teach you (however, I wonder how can you play well with a bad knee).
I don't know about the carts, but I saw some when living there. However, Buenos Aires is not handicap friendly. It has been improving in the last 15 years, but a long way to go to match US standards. For instance, many buildings have no ramps yet.
July is "cold", with cold meaning 32-40F for the lowests and high humidity (which makes thermal sensation 5F lower than the mark). With a Columbia or North Face jacket and a T-shirt, it is more than enough.
Hope this helps,
Andres
I am posting this article from this morning. This is EXACTLY why you guys should not keep hoping the peso falls and the situation doesn't improve over there. I've been saying it since I got back that we don't want the situation over there to become to dire. It won't be a safe place if that happens. I still think it's safe in the Recoleta area but all those there now and will be there please post what it's like. Be careful all.
_______________________________________
2 Argentines Killed in Protests on Economy
By New York Times
BUENOS AIRES, June 26 — At least two people were killed here today and dozens more injured and arrested when protesters demanding jobs and food clashed with police in the worst riots since political turmoil late last year helped topple Argentina's government.
The public has grown increasingly impatient with the long-running and crippling economic crisis that is threatening President Eduardo Duhalde, whose Peronist party is allied with the groups that organized the protests. Mr. Duhalde came to power in January after riots in December that killed 27 people and brought down the government of Fernando de la Rúa. When appointed, Mr. Duhalde became Argentina's fifth president in less than two weeks.
The violence today occurred as Economy Minister Roberto Lavagna was beginning a three-day trip to the United States in an effort to persuade banks and international lending institutions to reinstate an $18 billion credit line suspended in December. Since then, Argentina has defaulted on most of its $141 billion in public debt, and the peso has lost 75 percent of its value against the dollar, triggering a deep economic and social crisis here.
As a result, the popularity of Mr. Duhalde, a caretaker president who was chosen by Congress to head an emergency national unity government, has been sliding. In moments of frustration, he has talked about moving up a presidential election scheduled for late 2003 in order to leave office early.
The confrontation began when several hundred demonstrators, many carrying banners and chanting slogans criticizing the government and the International Monetary Fund, blocked a bridge that connects Buenos Aires with the southern industrial suburb of Avellenada. As police and national guardsmen advanced to dislodge them, the protesters, some armed with slingshots and gasline bombs, fled, smashing shop windows, overturning cars and burning a bus.
Spokesmen for a local hospital said the two victims, young men in their early 20's, had died of gunshot wounds. Masked protesters claimed that police had fired on them from rooftops and the streets, but the police commissioner, Mario Migin, said that his men were armed only with nightsticks and weapons that fired plastic bullets and tear gas canisters.
Many of the protest groups are closely allied with or in some cases even reportedly financed by Mr. Duhalde's Peronist party. Their noisy and sometimes violent demonstrations helped to bring down Mr. de la Rúa in December, and since then they have marched almost daily, usually unimpeded by police, to protest the economic collapse that has left one quarter of Argentina's work force unemployed.
But commuter complaints of blocked roads and bridges here have been growing, as have the objections of storeowners along protest routes who say that they are losing business, and Mr. Duhalde appears to have responded to their requests for order. Police commanders said today that they have now been authorized by the government to use force to prevent the blockage of highways and bridges by the pickets.
The march today was supported by some Peronist members of Congress, indicating that internal divisions are widening and that Mr. Duhalde's political position within his own party is weakening.
Saint,
The deteriorating situation has me concerned as I am currently planning to go there on July 30 for a week. I'm sure there are others who are or were considering going there in the near future who may now be getting more than a little jittery reading articles like this.
The last thing Argentina's economy can afford to lose right now are customers of which I am one. I may have to take a loss on changing my airline reservations but that would be small compared to getting stuck there is a really bad situation or fearing for your own safety.
Thanks for the heads up Saint.
I work for a small company and travel a lot to Argentina on business to help a Fortune 100 client with some major projects there.
Today, the travel department of that Fortune 100 company put Argentina on the list of countries where they will only allow their employees to travel if there is an extreme business need for it and a high-level vice-president has to sign off authorizing that employee to go.
This translates into the fact that they feel there is significant unpredictability of what will happen in the next few weeks. The only other country in Latin America with this same status for that company's travel department in Colombia. Granted, Colombia is in fact very dangerous and my impression is that Argentina will not get that dangerous any time soon.
This Fortune 100 company might be overreacting since they like to play it safe, so take their travel advisory with a grain of salt, but the fact is that they did take that step today.
I think it's always good to be keep a watchful eye on things. The truth is that no one knows how the situation down there will deteriorate. I do have a friend there now that is staying in the Recoleta area. He said that he has seen no problems in the Recoleta area. Personally, I would still go down. The people down there are showing no anti-American sentiment. They aren't mad at us. They are angry at their corrupt government and the political system that has been screwing them for years.
Hulk. I do think some companies are going to play it safe and maybe halt travel to Buenos Aires for the short term. As Starfe mentioned though, many companies are still eager to do business down there. When I flew down on American the First Class and Business class section was sparse. Most guys going down lately have told me they were full. That tells me something.
Be careful all and have fun. Once you get down there I seriously doubt you'll be thinking about the rioting. You'll be in the safe arms of a HOT Latina and that will be your primary focus.
P.S. Just talked to two people that live down there and they both said that there are no problems for Americans. One of them said that they thought the former president paid these people to protest. Who knows if that is true or not. Sounds like just one area of town that is affected. I wouldn't worry. It would take a lot more than that to stop me from seeing the wonderful chicas down there. If any of you are scared of going...give me your ticket....I'll go down for you. :P
Otto,
Hey buddy. Glad you're having a good time. FYI. Post your reports in the Main "Buenos Aires section" if you can. It's easier to follow reports from that section.
Sorry to hear about losing one valuable day in Paradise! Make the most of it as I'm sure you will. Was glad you killed some time at Colmegna Spa. It's really a neat place. Probably not the place you want to go to if you're only looking for sexual services. If you're looking for a really good massage that is a nice place to break up your trip. Otto is right. The girls give you a massage in an unenclosed room so if you're kind of loud I'm sure that could be embarrasing. However, there was a private room or two that I noticed. Not sure what services are all available but without me asking, my massage girl asked if I wanted a "masaje especial" (special massage). I asked her what it all included and she said, "todo". I asked about a price and she said $50 US
I passed because (a) I was exhausted from all the activities the night before; (b) all the activities I already had lined up for that day and night and (c) I wasn't sure where I'd be doing the deed and didn't feel comfortable with the unenclosed room. (they are like little cabanas with an open-air top in case you are wondering.
Have fun Otto. Keep the reports coming.
American has a rate of $519.00 (tax included) on their MIA to EZE (round trip) starting on July 28. Don't know how long that will last but it is a good rate. About a month ago it was cheaper than that.
American has lowered its fare again to 460.00 (including tax) for a round trip from MIA to EZE. That rate is good starting July 12. However, as we all know, it could change at any time.
General warning to anyone that receives an unsolicited email from a stranger on this board claiming to be a "girl from BA". The email was in Spanish and had an attachment. Hotmail's virus software "detected no viruses" but luckily I have other virus software. There was a worm virus attached. Do NOT open any attachments from people you don't know. Duh, but sometimes you see the words, "BA" "chica" and your little head gets your curious.
Good luck all.
I am planning on going down to BA in the near future and I was wondering if some of you recent vets could answer the following guestions?
- What kind of clothing is needed? Do you need a jacket or a heavy coat? Should I just buy one down there and if so any recommendations? I will be heading there on August 8.
- I am taking my camera with me. Do I need some type of electrical adapter to run my camera from a wall socket.
- Can you drink the water or do you need to get bottled water only?
- Anybody been busted down there for solicting? With this in mind any places or areas that should be avoided?
- Any recommendations for medical care if the need arises?
- Can you buy Viagra there over the counter. Where and how much?
- What is the cheapest way to call back to the states?
May the whoring Gods be with you,
newbee77
Newbee, yes, in BA their current is 220 volts. But don't sweat it, you go to a Home Depot (yes they're now in BA too!!) or another store like it, attached to their store called "Jumbo" which is like a French-owned Walmart, there's a Home Depot-like store whose name escapes me at the moment and last year I bought a simple adaptor/converter for $14.00 that lets you use US appliances down there. This Jumbo is in Palermo, only about a 10 minute cab ride at most from la Recoletta but I'm sure if you ask you could find these devices all around la Capital Federal. DownBA
DownBA,
Thanks for the info. I noticed on the BA message forum that you are a golfer. Can you tell me if it is too cold to play golf in BA this time of year (don't like to play when it drops below mid 50's). Any courses you recommend (considering price and quality)? I would like to email you with some more golf guestions if that is possible.
Thanks again,
newbee
OttoGraham
07-18-02, 10:31
Originally posted by newbee77
I am planning on going down to BA in the near future and I was wondering if some of you recent vets could answer the following guestions?
- What kind of clothing is needed? Do you need a jacket or a heavy coat? Should I just buy one down there and if so any recommendations? I will be heading there on August 8.
- I am taking my camera with me. Do I need some type of electrical adapter to run my camera from a wall socket.
- Can you drink the water or do you need to get bottled water only?
- Anybody been busted down there for solicting? With this in mind any places or areas that should be avoided?
- Any recommendations for medical care if the need arises?
- Can you buy Viagra there over the counter. Where and how much?
- What is the cheapest way to call back to the states?
May the whoring Gods be with you,
newbee77
Dear Newbee:
Some answers to the other questions:
I would bring autumn clothes, the high temps are in the high 50s or so, the lows about 30 degrees Farenheit. I did very well with a wool coat, perhaps a sweater would serve you well.
I drank tap water down there without incident.
I have never heard of anyone run into any legal problems vis a vis chasing tail. As for areas to avoid, stick to the reviewed places, and you are sure to be fine. As in any big city, I would take taxis to and from places when going at night, avoid walking by yourself, etc.... Don't get me wrong though, BsAs is safer than U.S. cities.
As for over-the-counter Vitamin V, either Yabba or umgman said they managed to do it. But with it being available over the internet by mail-order, why not do that before you go? www.impotenceprescriptions.com is one site, if memory serves.
I think the cheapest way to call back to the states is to use one of the internet/telephone places that sprinkle the city. There is one that Jackson and I have used next door to New Port Pub in Recoleta.
Enjoy yourself!
-Uncle Otto
Otto,
Thanks for the info and all the great posts from BA.
newbee
Newbee,
I really don't know a thing about golfing in BA but if you want to email about something, use lllllnnnnn@aol.com. Happy golfing and mongering! DownBA
Nibu Raphael
07-20-02, 19:36
See The www.jeffrense.com Aregentenain Pensioners forced to Prostitution cause of the economy,Very interesting story,,, NIBU:
JamesBond69
07-20-02, 23:47
Originally posted by Nibu Raphael
See The www.jeffrense.com Aregentenain Pensioners forced to Prostitution cause of the economy,Very interesting story,,, NIBU:
Amazing story although the part about the pensioners sleeping with "mostly" younger men is the only redeeming part (and kind of comical in a dark way).
The situation must really be dramatic in BA. Imagine if it was like that in the States. Florida would be the hobby capital of the world!!!
Nibu Raphael
07-23-02, 07:43
Hey ya all check out the dirty secret on Menem in the Latin America section on www.newsmax.com Wow Argentina is pretty damn corrupt.......
More news on the Argentinean economy.
http://www.southamericadaily.com/p/38/60736cd712c0.html
http://hoovnews.hoovers.com/fp.asp?layout=displaynews&doc_id=NR20020726670.4_0f8d00054b268e87
Does anyone have information on the air passes within Argentina?
The only sites I found were in Spanish and my translation sites don't seem to work on those 2 pages.
For those that also call Buenos Aires frequently, I found a great deal for phone cards. I was foolishly calling direct via my home phone or cellphone until I got my latest phone bill. It was through the roof. I bought a phone card from www.blackstoneonline.com. Get the $20 no connection fee card. It gave me something like 6 hours and 45 minutes and charges in 1 second increments. Also, no connection fee. The same time on my home phone would run about $175.00 with taxes and fees.
http://www.blackstoneonline.com/SC/DisplaySC.asp?productid=501208&mode=Add&instantpin=Y&afn=
Also, those that are interested in renting/leasing apartments might find the following page interesting:
http://www.realestate.com.ar/
Go to the link for "Exclusive Listings". Then downtown apartments rentals then select "apartments". The sale prices are crazy. I doubt they will ever get the asking prices. (Some of them are the same price pre-devaluation). You'll find some GREAT apartments in Recoleta for 750-900+ pesos a month.
Good luck all!
Saint
For South America air passes, try this site:
http://www.undergroundtravel.com/travel-passes/air-passes/air-passes-south%20america.htm
Also, check the airlines' sites such as Varig, etc.
So, can someone tell me what the poor economic situation in Argentina has done to prices that visitors from the states would pay? Both for girls and in general (lodging, food, whatever)?
thanks!
I posted this in the Mar Del Plata section but I'm also posting here in case anyone is interested. Good luck!
There are tons of books, internet sites, etc. available. A good one is located at the link below. Go through the various lessons they have. They seem to be very helpful. I enrolled in a Spanish class and this page has all of the same material we have been going through and it is free. The books alone for my class were over $150 not to mention the cost of the classes. Good luck!
http://spanish.about.com/library/be...PM=ss11_spanish
I'm not sure if there is a "best way" to learn Spanish. A key component is learning vocabulary. I know some guys that get by in Latin American countries with knowing the key verbs and vocabulary and most importantly the number system. First thing you should get down is the numbers. It's fairly easy to get down 1 - 1000.
What I did after my first BA trip was to enroll in an intensive Spanish class (3 hours each night for a month - after work). I went out and bought all these little books that helped. Go to a bookstore like Barnes & Noble, etc. There are little paperback books like: "1001 Most Useful Spanish Words" by Seymour Resnick; "Essential Spanish Grammar" (same author); 1001 Pitfalls in Spanish by Marion Holt. Then I went to Officemax and bought a ton of notecards. I memorize 30 words each day. I'm up to about 3,000 words but it starts getting difficult once you get to a certain level. Spanish isn't as easy as you would think.
Re: best way to learn Spanish: Saint is right that taking an intensive class is a good way as is memorizing vocabulary and the essential verbs but let me give you some tips that have worked for me. I'm not going to sit here and tell you not to learn basic grammar and not to practice conjugating your verbs but aside from all that obvious stuff here's my advice:
First and most obvious, try as hard as you can to take advantage of the situation when you're down in BA and other Spanish speaking countries and SPEAK Spanish the entire time you're down there and remember the most important phrase in the language while you're learning: "Como se dice...." and then you gesture or point or play charades to try to express the word you're looking for or if you're lucky enough to be speaking to someone that speaks a little English, at this time insert the English word you're looking for and hope the person can translate it. If you do get a word back from the "como se dice" approach I can almost guarantee you'll commit it to memory because you'll have leaned it contextually. In addition to the "como se dice" line don't ever forget the second most important stand-in "repita por favor" or "que dijiste otra vez por favor."
Secondly, and this worked wonders for me every time I've been in BA: ALWAYS carry around a Spanish-English dictionary with you even if it's one of those 3" x 2" ones you can find that fits in your pocket and use it the MOMENT you hear or read a word you don't know. There's NO better time to try to commit a word to memory than when you see or hear it CONTEXTUALLY. This is a fact and as cory as it may seem to have a dictionary in your hand at all times, I guarantee that if you carry one for the next ten days you're down in BA you won't have to do it again because you'll have learned 85% of the words you'll need in you're daily travels down there and particularly for chasing pussy.
Next, throughout the day take some time where you simply think a thought silently in English and try to translate it silently into Spanish using the vocabulary you know. Do this as often as you can and when you stumble....you guessed it, look the word up and add it to your cue cards. Alternatively, speak the sentences in Spanish to the best of your ability, yes, talk to yourself in Spanish, this works wonders.
Also, go to www.clarin.com or www.lanacion.com and start struggling through the daily news articles about what's going on in Argentina and again try to look up every word...this will be a little tedious at first but there's no getting around it and little by little you'll have to look up fewer and fewer words. Before you know it you'll be able to understand almost everything you read but don't ever forget that the Spanish language is a very rich language and you're not going to acquire it in a few weeks or months as long as you're not immersed in a Spanish language country.
Above all, don't be bashful about making mistakes, we all do but there's NO substitute, absolutely none, for speaking the language as a way of learning it and more importantly the more you speak to native speakers the faster you'll be able to understand them. And even though at first it seems like the Argentineans are speaking very quickly, I assure you that once you've listened to them enough it'll seem like the words are coming out of their mouths relativly slowly, and fact is, of all the people speaking Spanish (or Castellano as almost all Argentineans call their language) the Argentineans have some of the nicest, clearest pronunciation of all so this is a real plus when you're learning the language. So don't sweat it and get too wraped up in the tapes and books, go out and find a pretty Argentinean chica to chat with over dinner and you'll pick it up in no time at all.
Hope this is helpful, DownBA
Hard times for Argentina. Can't help but feel sorry for some of these people. One bright spot is tourism. I know the number of tourists has skyrocketed since January.
On Camera, Jobless Argentines Vie for a Livelihood
New York Times
BUENOS AIRES, Aug. 6 — Other countries may have television programs that lure entrants with offers of a million dollars, a new car or a luxury vacation in a tropical clime. But in this nation of broken finances and shattered dreams, contestants on a popular new game show compete for a prize that is increasingly rare and precious: a paying job.
Broadcast five days a week, the hourlong program known as "Human Resources" pits two unemployed people in a contest to win a guaranteed six-month work contract. They relate their life stories and answer questions that test their ability to perform the duties they are seeking. Then viewers vote by telephone to decide which of the two should get the coveted job.
On Monday, the prize was a position as a sales clerk at a bakery in a suburb of the Argentine capital. Both contestants were pleasant young women who have been unable to find work since finishing high school. Fátima Rueda, an 18-year-old single mother, and Nadia Bravo, 20, pleaded tearfully with the viewing audience.
"I feel helpless" without work, said one. "I feel empty," confessed the other. After every commercial break, a well-groomed blond hostess, much in the mold of Vanna White, urged viewers to call a toll-free number to support their favorite.
On the air since mid-April, "Human Resources" is a reflection of a new national obsession in a country of 37 million that until recently was the most prosperous in Latin America. As the Argentine economy continues to contract in a collapse that is now the statistical equivalent of the Great Depression, fears of being pulled into the black hole are growing, especially among the middle class.
"We can't solve the problem," said Néstor Ibarra, the host of the show. "But we can help establish the dignity of work, and remind people that the unemployed are not just statistics, but also people with faces, names and lives."
Officially, the unemployment rate has climbed to 21.5 percent, the highest in Argentine history. But many people have simply given up looking for work, discouraged by the closing of thousands of factories and shops. Others have had their work hours or wages sharply reduced. Even those lucky enough to still have full-time jobs worry that the worsening economics will soon thrust them into the ranks of the unemployed.
Anxieties among Argentines about joblessness are running especially high right now. Wednesday is the feast day of San Cayetano, the patron saint of workers here. It coincides with a visit by the United States Treasury secretary, Paul H. O'Neill, who arrived in Argentina today as part of what he described as an effort to familiarize himself with the economic catastrophe here.
While some Argentines vied for jobs on television, entire families have been camped out for weeks in unheated tents outside the sanctuary of San Cayetano on the outskirts of the capital, enduring the Southern Hemisphere winter as an offering to the saint who they hope will gain them a job, or at least help them to keep one. Including the campers, more than 200,000 people are expected to pray or make other demonstrations of faith to the saint on Wednesday.
Griselda López, 53, is part of a group of 20 women who have been going to the shrine together for more than a dozen years and arrived this year on July 1. In the early years, all of the women were employed, she said, but most have lost their jobs.
"We're terribly afraid, all of us," Mrs. López said. "Times are very hard for everybody. Those who have been let go suffer because there is no prospect of work, and the few who still have their jobs see what is happening around them and tell themselves `I could be next.' "
Because of its association with the saint of "bread and work," the church at the San Cayetano shrine runs a well-known job training and placement program. But the director of that effort, Adrián Pagani, said that while the number of people seeking help has increased, job placements have dropped sharply as the crisis has worsened over the past three years: from 2,600 in the year ending on June 30, 2000, to 1,300 in the year that ended last June 30.
"The work world has fallen apart in Argentina, along with the whole web of social relationships that go with it," he said. "People have lost not only their income, but the sense of identity that work confers on them."
In that atmosphere of disintegration and desperation, "Human Resources" has flourished. The program's structure is simple: a job is announced, and from the dozens of initial applicants, 20 are selected to come to the studio before the choice is winnowed down to the final two.
According to the program's producers, the record number of contestants competing for any single job is about 650. That turnout came when a local theme park said it was looking for a tour guide and specified that it wanted a woman older than 40 for the job.
"We generally get our most massive response when someone who is hiring does not exclude middle-aged people," said Luis Oscar Obregón, one of the executive producers of the program. "Because those are the jobs that appear least often on the market and that is the group with the most responsibilities and the least opportunities, the turnout is always exceptional."
Mr. Obregón added that if the crisis here were not so severe, there would probably be even more contestants for jobs.
"A lot of people can't afford bus fare anymore, and our theater is too far for them to walk, so they are forced to remain at home, trapped," he explained.
Most of the jobs "Human Resources" offers are blue-collar: waiter, clerk, mechanic. The economic situation here is grim enough that people with college educations also apply to the program for such posts. But they quickly find that their credentials bring them no special advantage.
"The audience's behavior is predictable and always very human," said Mr. Ibarra, the host. "They automatically vote for the person who they think needs the job the most. So the man with a disabled child, the woman who has children but no husband, is preferred over the person who is not quite as bad off."
On Monday, that proved to be the case. When the votes were tallied and displayed with a flourish on an electronic screen, Ms. Rueda, the single mother, had received 52 percent of the vote, to 48 percent for Ms. Bravo.
Crestfallen, Ms. Bravo was consoled by members of her family, who rushed from the audience to hug and kiss her, and then gamely walked over to congratulate the victor, who was holding her infant son and smiling broadly. The two young women embraced, and both began to cry.
But as Ms. Rueda went to sign her six-month employment contract, the bakery owner made a surprise announcement that was greeted with applause by the studio audience. He had decided, he said, to hire both women, and produced a second work agreement, which Ms. Bravo, suddenly animated, quickly signed.
"That happens a lot," Mr. Ibarra said afterward. "A contestant won't get the job on our program, but someone will call in later to offer them another job. People are really decent that way, because they are touched by what they see."
Airfare update. This information is in addition to the information posted by Uncle Otto in his report section.
First off, the AA sale to BA from several US cities ends after today. I don't know about the other airlines. One of the restrictions of this fare is that you have to return by December 12th.
Secondly, for those of you who are traveling after the sale dates, say late December, there are other options.
Book segments of the ticket separately, sometimes on the same airline. It is crazy, but crazy like a fox.
Example. You are planning a trip from dallas to ba for 12/19/02-01/05/03.
Best fares for one ticket are $948 on TAM and $1116 on AA. Now book the dallas-miami and miami-ba legs separately on AA and you get prices of dfw-mia ($250) and mia-eze ($599) for a total of $849. Same airline that wanted $1116 for a dfw-eze ticket on the same date and probably the same flights.
The dfw-mia fare is cheap, so now you concentrate on the mia-eze leg. If you shift the return date from 01/05 (Sunday) to 01/06, a fare of $504 pops up for Southern Winds the newest Argentinean airline. The price of the dfw-mia ticket also drops to about $235. Now your total cost is around $740.
So you could either fly the same US airline on the same dates for $267 less or fly one day later on 2 airlines for $376 less than the orginal AA option.
The fares are like the truth, they are out there, you just have to look for them.
DC
JamesBond69
08-14-02, 02:35
"Despair in Once-Proud Argentina
After Economic Collapse, Deep Poverty Makes Dignity a Casualty"
This article (the headline above, the URL below) really sums up the situation now in Argentina.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47822-2002Aug5.html
Another good article that gives some good insight on what is going on there.
Argentina's collapse
Carving up the scraps of power
Sep 5th 2002 | BUENOS AIRES
From The Economist print edition
FOR months, Eduardo Duhalde, Argentina's president, and his finance officials promised that an IMF deal was imminent. Recently, it seemed that this might even be true. But it has become clear that for every obstacle the government painstakingly surmounts, Argentina's Congress and its courts are capable of erecting another one. With a presidential election not due until March, and with no convincing candidates emerging, the prospect of Argentina recovering from its shocking economic collapse seems to recede like a mirage on an endless Pampas road.
The government is still going through the motions of trying to reach an agreement with the IMF which would at least roll over Argentina's obligations to the Fund itself. This week yet another IMF mission was in Buenos Aires. Roberto Lavagna, the economy minister, earlier made great play of writing his own draft letter of intent (though such documents are normally quietly negotiated). But the IMF dashed his hopes. “In the monetary area and the banking area and some aspects of the legal side, clearly there are issues remaining,” the Fund's spokesman, Thomas Dawson, said last week. He added that the two sides were not “talking about any kind of final timetable” for a deal.
The government thinks this unfair. The economy seems to have stopped shrinking at last. Since June, the peso has hovered close to 3.60 to the dollar. Although that is a devaluation of 72% since January, inflation remains restrained. The central bank's reserves have risen a little. So have tax revenues. The central government had a budget surplus of 200m pesos in July, though that would disappear if Argentina resumed debt payments. Moreover, with financial turbulence spreading to Uruguay and Brazil (both of which promptly received IMF bail-outs), the case for helping Argentina seemed to be stronger.
Though the economy seems to have stopped shrinking at last, the government has yet to show that it has a coherent economic programme
But the government has yet to show that it has a coherent economic programme. In particular, it has not decided what to do about bank deposits frozen by a previous government last December. Congress, having blocked a plan to turn these into bonds, has turned its attention to bank bashing. The average Argentine still blames the banks for the confiscation of savings (though this was decreed by the government) and much else besides. The banks, in turn, having written off huge losses, want reassurance that Argentines still want a banking system.
Congress recently extended for three months a ban on mortgage foreclosures and the seizing of debtors' cars. The Senate unanimously approved a bill reinstating a 2% tax on interest and commissions for a bankrupt trade-union health scheme. (At least one banker is reported to have been told that this measure could be scrapped—for a fee). Another measure would make foreign banks' head offices liable for new deposits in their Argentine branches. Until such measures are withdrawn, the banks want any deal with the IMF halted. But they have agreed with the government to delay indexing most loans to inflation.
Then there are the courts. On taking office in January, Mr Duhalde misguidedly set in motion the impeachment of the Supreme Court. But having failed to raise the necessary two-thirds majority in Congress, he is now desperately lobbying to halt this because the court is bloody-mindedly ruling government measures unconstitutional. Last month, it struck down a 13% cut in government salaries and pensions made last year. That creates a large fiscal hole. The court may also reverse a government decree which converted dollar deposits into pesos. That would mark the end of the banking system, whose dollar-denominated assets were turned into (devalued) pesos at par.
The creeping paralysis of government has led to calls for the presidential election to be brought forward. But the candidacy of the ruling Peronist party is being squabbled over by half a dozen contenders. None are impressive. Leading the polls, but with less than 20%, is Adolfo Rodriguez Saa, who as interim president in December declared the debt default, and was previously the satrap of the western province of San Luis for 18 years.
Argentines are clamouring for new leaders. But none has yet appeared. Increasingly, authority is slipping back to the provinces, where it belonged for the first chaotic half-century of the country's independent life. The danger Argentina faces is one of stasis, in which the election fails to produce a government capable of imposing its will, or of starting to rebuild the country's discredited institutions. No wonder that the IMF is now demanding “political consensus” for any deal.
Hola amigos....
My first post in this forum....By way of introduction, Argentina is my favorite country on earth. I have visited 5 times in the past year, and have purchased tix for two more trips, in October and again in Feb. I may use ff miles for a trip in early December....
I post regularly on **********, as many of you who post in both places already know....
I have a "favorita," who works in one of the downtown bars....I try to travel with her to different locations in Argentina and other destinations in South America. I spend most of my time with her when I am in BsAs, but manage to get out to a couple of the clubs each trip....
I highly recommend getting out of Buenos Aires....Argentina is a large, beautiful country....
Originally posted by ezy
Hola amigos....
My first post in this forum....By way of introduction, Argentina is my favorite country on earth. I have visited 5 times in the past year, and have purchased tix for two more trips, in October and again in Feb. I may use ff miles for a trip in early December....
I post regularly on **********, as many of you who post in both places already know....
I have a "favorita," who works in one of the downtown bars....I try to travel with her to different locations in Argentina and other destinations in South America. I spend most of my time with her when I am in BsAs, but manage to get out to a couple of the clubs each trip....
I highly recommend getting out of Buenos Aires....Argentina is a large, beautiful country....
Full of starving, jobless people. Before I go I would like to know if it's safe to be there or that I'm going be considered a target for muggers/kidnappers.
Welcome to the board Ezy! As I posted in the other section we are lucky to have you on board. You know I love BA just as much as you do. Damn I love that country... and not just for the girls. I love everything about it.
Damarushi, if you're asking us whether it's a 100% guarantee that you will not encounter any crime.... NO one can promise you that. But then again...NO one can promise you that for anywhere in the world. The people of BA are very civilized and friendly. I have never experienced and crime and as I posted countless other times.....I know dozens and dozens of guys that go down and that have gone down based on my posts and all loved it. All emailed me and said they loved it and will be back again. NONE experienced crime whatsoever.
Are many unemployed there? Yes. Are some people going to bed hungry at night? Yes. Has crime increased? Probably yes. Will it get worse? Maybe. Will any of that stop me from going there? NOOOOOOOOO.
Think of it like this. There are risks with everything we do in life. It's a fact. It's like owning a luxury yacht and never taking it out in the ocean. Having this beautiful craft hidden away in some indoor storage facility. Sure it will never get damaged. It's safer not on the high seas. No chance of it sinking to the bottom of the ocean. But it never has the chance to experience what it was crafted for. You never have the feeling of the wind in your hair while you steer your ship over crystal blue waters. Everything I do in life I like to think of like this.
I know some of my friends think I'm nuts for going to BA so often. I plan to live there someday in the near future. Life to me is about enjoying life because you never know when tomorrow might not come. I plan on living each day like it's my last.
Sorry this is a bit off topic but I think it's important wherever you go not to worry too much about things. Have fun. Life is good.
Saint
FYI. Delta Airlines is cancelling their routes from Atlanta to Buenos Aires and Rio starting December 2nd. Anyone that bought a ticket for after December 1st is out of luck. I guess they weren't making enough money on those routes.
I talked to a manager because I was worried about my flight. It turns out I'm on the very last flight that Delta Airlines will fly from Buenos Aires to Atlanta. I hope nothing happens to my flight.
This is a major blow for anyone that has frequent flyer miles on Delta. Also i think it will cause other airlines to raise their prices since there is one less airline to fly there.
*** Funny side story: I just flew down there two weeks ago on Delta. The plane was full both ways. It was annoying the flight back because there was this "trash" sitting behind me. I hesitate using that word but it would apply in this situation. They were these latin women from Atlanta. They could barely speak English but they were asking every single passenger around them how much they paid for their ticket. A few people like me just ignored them. Some answered. Then they would answer the equivalent of "ha, ha...we both got ours on Priceline.com for $375.... you idiots". People were getting pissed. They wouldn't shut up.
Keep in mind it's the late night flight. When the lights went off and they were still yapping, I turned around and in my newly learned Spanish told them to shut their mouths! (cierre sus bocas). Didn't hear a peep out of them the rest of the flight.
I guess Delta was getting too many people like that on their flights....
Nibu Raphael
09-14-02, 19:18
HI When I was in Northern and Central Argentina in August it was 3.55 pesos to the dollar. What is it now? Are there still a lot of demonstrations in Buenos Aires with roadblocks? I shall be back in Argentina in October,,,, ThanXXX,,,, NIBU R.............
the exchange rate varies each day, probably listed in your paper's business section... certainly in the wall street journal... or use http://www.bloomberg.com/markets/currency/currcalc.html or http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic or http://money.cnn.com/markets/currencies/.
i had heard stories about b.a. not being safe, or not as safe as before. i noticed no change from my last trip (nov-01)!! i walked all over recoletta, retiro, central (around av florida & suipacha). also roller bladed in palermo chica, around the costanero area, and the west side of recoletta (towards palermo).
anyone who decides against going to b.a. for fear of mugging/molesting/robbing/kidnapping is a fool. are there risks, sure, but it's still as safe or safer than nyc was 15 or so years ago before they cleaned it up.
by the way, mayri can help you on more than hotels and flights. i found out too late that she has contacts/friends that make great leather clothing/jackets...
i used 10-10-629 for calling argentina and brasil. see
http://dial1010.iwarp.com/
argentina calls are 13 cents per minute, no monthly fee, no set up fee, no fixed cost. just 13 cents plus the universal service tax (that all long distance has) which is like a 20% tax?
just dial 10-10-629 before your call, 10-10-629-011-54etc
I'm not quite sure where to post this....so I will try General Information.....
An earlier post warned against taking a chica to Mar del Plata from Buenos Aires since lower cost high quality chicas were available in MDP. I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective:
In Feb. of last year I took a chica to MDP for a week. She was tired of the swealtering heat of BA and eagerly accepted my invitation to escape for a week .....She asked for 900 pesos for for full week and probably would have accepted less
There is nothing quite like waking up beside a hot young thing and enjoying a leisurely shower together...going for a morning swim, taking a tour on an excursion boat in the afternoon, walking hand in hand along the pedestrian mall that runs from downtown and dead ends at the beach, enjoying a seafood dinner together in one of the local restaurants (Octupus stew is wonderful, I discovered), & returning to the condo to experience a sexual encounter with both of you looking out on a moon drenched ocean.....listening to the waves, and to each other's sighs, moans and grunts....ummmm...
The point I am making is....there is something to be said for the quality of a longer experience over a number of shorter trysts.....
I have since done the same thing a second time with a different destination....this time we went to San Martin de los Andes for a week of skiing.....Future trips to Iguazu Falls and Bariloche are planned....Great way to see the country and enjoy the expressions of gratitude of a sweet young thing.....
Ezy,
Great post. As anyone that knows me knows I like variety. After all, it is the spice of life. But maybe as I get older I'm looking for a little bit of what you search for. As I told you before, I used to read your posts and think to myself...gosh that guy is such a romantic. (never thought it was negative and maybe even secretly wished I could be like that just a teeny tiny bit). My one session with that girl in BA was really special. It was very hard saying goodbye to her my last day.
Those that have been to BA-- picture sitting inside La Biela cafe in Recoleta with a cutie. We're sitting near a window looking outside towards the picturesque cemetary. Both sipping on strong coffees and agua sin gas. Playing kissy face, holding hands and all the mushy stuff I used to make fun of. (I'm sure I looked like a major "Sally"). Anyway, I've emailed with her and chatted on IM's. Also on phone.
I may go to MDP with her one day. If anyone thinks I post too much jibberish let me know.... I just love sharing my stories and love BA!
EZY and Saint, keep the memories flowing. Thanks.
EZE_Amante
09-18-02, 06:14
Saint,
Your posts are anything but jibberish. They are very informative, and offer personal insight that is sometimes missing from offerings from other contributors. Over the last 6 months, I believe I've read everything you've posted, and as I've told you via email, they are a big reason for changing my plans from Kiev to BA.
Ezy,
Definitely agree there's something to be said for waking up with a sweet young thing draped across you. I think as I get a little older I tend to appreciate the little things like holding hands, and kissing much more than when I was in my twenties. A girl who shows affection, even if it is a show, is always a better experience for me than the strict professionals. Just one of the many reasons I gave up stateside escorts.
EZE
Nibu Raphael
09-18-02, 22:39
Hi is the Dollar still to the peso 3.55????? Does anyone think by the end of the year it will reach 4 pesos to the dollar or even 5???? Shit I know the Euro is now trying to beat the dollar and also The Yen Is getting Stronger the same with the Chinese Currency. Hey Ya All What is the economic future forecast for Argentina late 2002 to early 2003?????
Although often times most of us only see the "good side" of Buenos Aires, it's important to realize the other things going on there. There is NO arguing there are some serious economic problems going on. I always feel bad for those kids you see begging for change. I always try to give them a buck or two. One time in Recoleta a wealthy local saw me giving 2 $1 US bills to this little girl begging for change. She scolded me and told me that those kids just give the money to their parents who often use it to buy alcohol or waste it on drugs. I politely explained to the lady (her English was very good..a rareity for BA) that my conscience wouldn't allow me to pass by some of these people sometimes without helping. I explained that the girl looked like she hadn't eaten in a week.
I must have embarrassed this local because she reached into her purse and pulled out a 2 peso bill and gave it to the girl. I could tell the lady didn't want to but felt maybe a little ashamed. She did tell me that I can't help everyone as she was walking away.
Point of fact, yes, there probably are some parents that get their hands on the money and use it for things they don't need but I can tell you a few of the times I gave kids money, I saw them almost immediately using it for food or sodas at the convenience store around the corner from La Biela restaurant.
Also, there were times when I got pissed. There is one lady that always sits in between the Etoile hotel and La Biela restaurant. She sometimes has a little girl with her. The last time I gave her $1 and then she sends the little girl to follow me down the street pestering me for more money even after I said no. That's just not right...
Recoleta is another world. Even the taxi drivers will tell you that. It's a 'world' of class, priviledge and money. But even there you will see people going through garbage cans. It was cold in the first week of September when I went and I saw people looking through garbage cans looking for cardboard or anything to shield them from the bitterly cold wind.
I'm not saying you have to help....just saying you should still be aware of what is going on around you....JMHO.
__________
Slump Turns Jobless Argentines Into Scavengers
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
BUENOS AIRES, Sept. 21 (AP) — Unemployed and hungry, Guillermo Guerrero yanks up his shirt sleeves and plunges his grimy hands into a trash bag bulging with old newspapers, bottles and rotting vegetables.
Blocks away, Marisa Demitri and her 11-year-old son, Adrián, sift through trash piled on a street corner, picking at discarded food and searching for anything to recycle, sell or eat.
As night falls, thousands of people like Ms. Demitri and Mr. Guerrero take over the streets. Many emerge from abandoned buildings or rusted rail cars; others come from the depressed neighborhoods that ring this city. Clattering on the pavement are carts, wagons on metal wheels, even the occasional horse-drawn carriage with whole families aboard.
Not long ago, Buenos Aires was one of the most prosperous cities in Latin America. But after a four-year economic slump, Argentina's jobless rate has risen above 20 percent and the value of the peso has fallen by more than 70 percent against the dollar. Homelessness is on the rise, and nearly half the country's 36 million people now live in poverty.
Mr. Guerrero, 22, took to the streets to feed his family of 10 after his father died in May. The butcher shop where he had worked closed as cash-short Argentines cut back on buying meat.
"I'd be on the streets begging if it wasn't for this," Mr. Guerrero said of his trash scavenging. "I grab whatever I can. It's the only way I can survive."
Government aid is sparse for low-wage workers — construction workers, cleaning ladies, security guards — who are now out of work.
Ms. Demitri, a seamstress who was laid off, holds her son's hand while poking in trash outside office buildings as men and women in business suits walk by.
"This is better than stealing," she said, turning away from the stares. "I'm a mother with children. I want to hide my head in shame, but what can I do?"
Artemio López, a sociologist at the Equis consulting group, estimates that 30,000 to 40,000 people are eking out a bare existence by scavenging through trash. Recycling, he said, has become "a very important business in the informal economy."
Paper, bottles and plastic all head to warehouses like one run by José Cordoba, who said he separated the loads, paid the scavengers and then resold at a profit. He said competition was fierce among the scavengers, known as cartoneros to their fellow citizens.
"Nowadays there so many people without work that they are out on the streets scavenging," he said. "Before, men used to go out alone. Now it's entire families — women and children."
Chuponalgas
09-25-02, 00:53
AIRFARE TIP: Some good “hidden” fares on Travelocity for EZE (Buenos Aires). Go to www.travelocity.com, and enter your home city in the FROM line, EZE in the TO line. DO NOT enter dates, click on "MY DATES ARE FLEXIBLE”, then fiddle around with the available dates. They make this a little difficult because they don’t want biz travelers using it. Currently getting good availability November – February, on several airlines for $498 RT from LAX, $280RT from Miami, etc. I use the “farewatcher” feature to keep me up on the latest hidden fares. Caught a $208 RT fare to Costa Rica in February that was only on for four hours, may have been a mistake, but they honored it.
JamesBond69
09-25-02, 01:15
>One time in Recoleta a wealthy local saw me giving 2 $1 US bills to this little >girl begging for change. She scolded me and told me that those kids just >give the money to their parents who often use it to buy alcohol or waste it >on drugs.
I live in New York in a wealthy area like Recoleta and there are beggers on my block, sleeping and begging, and I never give them a penny because I live here and pass them everyday, so I can fully understand from both sides why the Argentine women gave nothing and you gave the kids two bucks
The reality in BA is that 50% live at poverty level (less than $3/day now compared to 11% (less than $9,000/year) in the US..
But the level of poverty for children is far higher than 50%, as the parents keep the money to themselves first.
Working girls are usually single mothers trying to care for their children, so I guess the sex I buy is helping them out. I like to think that both parties win in the transactions.
Jamesbond and Saint:
To place the issue of poverty and changing socioeconomics in Argentina in perspective, consider:
*The average hobbyist will spend more for an hour with a chica than the poorest 10% of the population will make in a month (135pesos)
*The average hobbyist will spend more in a single day than 70%of the population will make in a month (700pesos).
* The average hobbyist will spend more in a week than 90% of the population will earn in a month (2100pesos)....and more than the poorest 10% will earn in a year!!!
Poverty and homelessness in the U.S. is often associated with mental disorders, addicitons, or laziness.....Whereas in Argentina and in other parts of the emerging world poverty is more often associated with wretched economic conditions
The moral: Tip generously....and carry around lots of monedas(coins) and small bills to give street children.....
If the DOW continues its downward spiral, you or your family members might be the ones on the street next year at this time...treat the poor in Argentina as you would want to be treated.....
Jamesbond is right.....prostitutes often have small children to support....so it's almost your duty to do at least 2 chicas per day....and feed several small mouths in the process....from this perspective it is downright selfish of us to stop at one chica....(I thought it best to end on a lighter note...though there is an element of truth here too)))))
Ezy. Excellent statistics! (Especially the one about the Dow. I don't know about others but I've lost enough in this market to feed Buenos Aires for a year!!!..ouch).
Jamesbond69, I also live in a nice area. No beggers in my neighborhood but there are plenty on my way to work. Sometimes I give money and sometimes I don't. Half the time the people begging for money here are guys that could be working. They are just lazy. Down there, trust me. The kids are hungry. They have no prospects of working, most of their parents have no prospects of working.
What Ezy said is true. Many, many, many people in the USA that formally had tons of disposible income are now finding themselves out of work. Everything can change. That's one thing that is constant about life. CHANGE. Look at Argentina. Just a year ago they were enjoying the highest standard of living in South America. They are humbled now. Reality checks come in all shapes and sizes.
I'm not saying you have to help the poor or even tip generously but I will continue to do it no matter what anyone says. In restaurants, in taxis, in the bars. I think one reason why it's so safe for Americans is because Americans are thought of down there as generous and good to many of the people. The chicas I talk to, the people in taxi's, the people in restaurants...all tell me they love Americans. I've never experienced any anti-American sentiment.
P.S. What I thought was going to happen is gonna happen. Argentina is going to start skipping payments to the IMF and other institutions. This probably will cause the peso to get weaker.
________
Argentina Says It Will Skip International Loan Payment
By: New York Times Online
RIO DE JANEIRO, Sept. 24 — The Argentine economy minister announced today that his country would no longer use its diminishing foreign reserves to pay back loans from the International Monetary Fund and other multitlateral lenders and would thus miss at least one payment due next month, a move that pushes Argentina closer to a formal break with those bodies.
Meeting with foreign reporters in Buenos Aires, the economy minister, Roberto Lavagna, also said that while Argentina hoped to reach a new accord with the I.M.F., it was "not going to sign just any old agreement." The government of Eduardo Duhalde, he said, "will not renounce its policy of social assistance," even if it means further delaying negotiations that have been bogged down for months.
"There are two priorities which we will not abandon," Mr. Lavagna said. "We will maintain social programs and ensure the financing of provincial economies."
Mr. Lavagna's remarks were the latest in a series of official statements indicating that Argentina was growing impatient with the demands of the multilateral lending bodies that are virtually its only source of foreign credit. Commercial banks have been treating the country as a pariah since the government defaulted on most of its $141 billion of public debt late last year.
Last week, shortly after the I.M.F.'s first deputy director, Anne O. Krueger, indicated that Argentina must take further steps to meet the fund's requirements for a rescue package, the interior minister, Jorge Matzkin, said, "There are opinions on the part of the International Monetary Fund that have left even the most patient and pliable of us fed up."
Also last week, the fund's managing director, Horst Köhler, sent a letter to Mr. Duhalde, asking him to speed efforts to break the deadlock. According to Argentine news accounts, Mr. Duhalde promptly phoned Mr. Köhler to tell him that "Argentina can only use its reserves to meet future obligations if the country is under the umbrella of an accord" with multilateral lenders.
Hoping to reach an agreement with the fund, Argentina has already moved to a floating exchange rate for the peso and has repealed legislation that could have been used to penalize foreign banks whose behavior during the crisis has been criticized. But Argentine officials said that I.M.F. negotiators were demanding additional steps that included deeper cuts in government spending and an end to court rulings that allow depositors greater access to frozen bank accounts.
In remarks published in Argentine newspapers today, Mr. Köhler said that "we want to reach a deal with President Duhalde" but need "a minimum amount of public consensus, including with institutions like the judicial system and Congress."
Mr. Duhalde, however, announced in July that he would be leaving office nine months early and calling early elections, and the main candidates to replace him are shying away from any commitments to the I.M.F.
"It seems ill advised to me that the fund has expressed its opinion about social plans," Alfredo Atanasof, Mr. Duhalde's cabinet chief, told reporters today. "Köhler and Krueger ought to know that if the enormous network of social containment wasn't working, this country would have gone up in flames."
Argentina has $2.25 billion in loans that it is required to repay to multilateral lenders like the I.M.F., the World Bank and the Inter-American Development Bank the last three months of this year, and an additional $14.6 billion is scheduled to fall due in 2003. But Argentina's central bank reserves have fallen nearly 50 percent this year, to about $9.5 billion.
Today's decision does not affect $329 million that is due this month, which Argentina said it planned to pay.
"Argentina is going to fulfill all of its obligations, but what has to be decided is when and how," said Mr. Lavagna, who is scheduled to go to Washington later this week to attend the fund's annual meeting.
Nibu Raphael
09-26-02, 17:39
Hi You all Damn can someone answer me on this one PLEASE. I know that some pesos that you get when you are traveling around like me in Argentina What I mean some are only good in certain area and it will say it on the bill. You might get some pesos that are only Cordoba types some that are only exchanged in the BA Area. Shit I lost 20 pesos coming back to Chile on the bus with my women but I told her Fuck mail to your grandma in Cordoba as A Gift. Yeh at the border he would not change it even the bus driver or others would not change that 20 peso bill from Cordoba. Well at least with the crisis going 3.55 pesos to the dollar I lost less then half on dollars to that if it was the old days Shit 1 peso to the dollar I would be out of 20. Shit I hope someone can answer me on this but I think most of you guys can not cause it seems like all of you guys only go to BA and not more inland in to Argentina. SHIT Man Someone Maybe an Argentenian would know on this. I should be entering Argentina Salta Yeh thru Calama Chile the 2nd week of november but then go to Resistancia and then Paraguay and then possibly BA. this should be a 5 week voyage with my pal Johnny Muro I want to be back in Lima Peru the 2nd week of december too many theives for the christmas and New years holiday,,,, NIBU R....
Nibu:
What you've got is a Lecor (Letras de Cordoba - Cordoba's Financial Letters). Many provinces issue their own currency (absolutely unconstitutional, but these guys have no choice) which are not valid far from their jurisdiction. Next year, this problem would be solved in some way by the next government.
I'm surprised that you are so angry by holding less than $6, given that I saw your trip reports throughout the Latin American forums in WSG. With such standard of living, 20 Pesos/Lecor/Lecop/Patacones should be nothing to you.
Is Johnny Muro a real name? If so, think how much harm you can do to him by posting his real name here. Be careful.
Andres
Nibu Rafael.
Nothing for nothing but chill out. When in a foreign country it's your responsibility to pay attention and know what the deal is. I've posted several times to watch out for Provencial notes. 20 pesos is like $5.50 US. Keep things in perspective. I'm not sure where you are from. (Judging from your grammer I doubt it's the USA. ).
Why are you whining and moaning so much? It's the same as a foreigner coming to the USA and having some store give them back Monopoly money as change. Yeah, it would suck but it's your responsibility to know how the system works and what the currency looks like.
Guys, always look at your pesos. Only accept Federal Notes. For the guys that have trouble reading and need a visual aid, go to the website below. I just snapped a few photos for you.
http://www.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=67b0de21b30b3f0e848d
Notice the peso is the same size as our bills. They have the same security measures as the new US currency. (Don't say I never did anything for ya...)
EZE_Amante
09-28-02, 11:41
Hello All,
Awhile back, Saint and others posted advice about learning the Spanish language. One of my professors recommended this book:
Spanish Made Simple
It is an excellent tool for learning the language quickly, full of exercises, quizzes etc. that help you learn. If you're like me and trying to learn as much as possible before your trip, this will help.
EZE
An interesting article from a London paper.
http://www.observer.co.uk/magazine/story/0,11913,800934,00.html
Maybe the crime angle is exaggerated, in my brief experience yes, but there may be a downside for those interested in investing in property down there. Good prices but its a judgement call on the future stability of the country.
SteveC,
Thanks for posting that article. No doubt things in Argentina are bad. My heart goes out to many of the people in Argentina. If anything, the situation in Argentina show us how quickly things can change. How quickly a proud people can be humbled.
But I still maintain that if this situation were to occur in the United States it would be pure chaos. Blood would be in the streets 24/7. All of you that are saying, "yeah but this could never happen in the USA". Not anything on the scale of what is happening in Argentina... but has anyone noticed the economy here? Many are out of jobs here. I know executives that were making $150,000+ a year that have been out of work for a while and probably will be for some time to come.
I could probably interview people in the USA and come up with an article that would be similar to the one I just read in the Observer. Take a look at the corporate accounting scandals going on. Some people have lost their life savings. Many that planned on retiring in the next few years will have to work indefinitely to make up for their lost savings.
I know this is kind of off topic but I'm always thinking about the scenarios of every situation. Whether we want to admit it or not, the USA is like a house of cards waiting to tumble down. The stock market is a mess (and could get much worse), many people that had expensive houses, cars, vacations, etc. will be reduced to having to sell all of their possessions just to survive. Mark my words, the real estate market in the USA is like a bubble waiting to burst.
I'm not saying we will experience anything near to what Argentina is going through but things here could definitely get much much worse. I still maintain we live in the best country in the world. Our standard of living is wonderful. I would never give up my passport but you can bet I'll sure use it plenty to visit Argentina.
OttoGraham
09-29-02, 17:39
Otto Returns!
Nibu:
A few times on my trips to Buenos Aires I have received change that included "patacones" and other provincial/private currencies. One of the things I have done with them is give them to waiters/taxi drivers/shoeshine boys as tips. They have never been offended by this.
From the tourist's point of view, there's no difference between regular money and this scrip. It spends just like anything else.
-Otto
Ferolga777
09-30-02, 01:32
Gentlemen
Here is a restaurant where you shouldn't feel out of place bringing in you favorita. When I asked whether I could take photos they told me that many people came in with their paramours and did not want their privacy put at risk.
The food is good. The sense of humor of the owners is great. Here's the website.
http://www.tematareramirez.com/
Ferolga777
09-30-02, 01:42
I didn't say that Te Matare Ramirez is a self styled aphrodisiacal restaurant. It appeals to the poetic of the libido.
Nibu Raphael
09-30-02, 23:37
Hi The Peso to the dollar is now 3.60. Will it be 4 pesos by next year? Jackson,Otto or someone PLEASE Answer on this one. Yeh I am shooting to be in Argentina in november. Did the protests subside in Argentina? I hope someone can also post on other cities besides BA Only. Remember Argentina is 37 Million so a lot more exists too outside of the Gran BA of 13 million>> Nibu R.
Nibu,
NO one knows what the peso will be doing next year. It's anyone's guess. If we knew for sure... we would be rich. Speculation of currency can make you or break you. I think one thing is clear. The value of the peso isn't going to rise too drastically for a while. It definitely can get worse but no one knows for sure. Good luck.
Also, today's daily dose of BA news for those that are interested:
Argentina Permits Withdrawals From Savings
New York Times
BUENOS AIRES, Sept. 30 — Banks started to ease a nine-month-old freeze on the savings accounts of Argentines today, in a move the government hopes will help breathe life into the moribund economy and help the recession-weary country move closer to a rescue deal with the International Monetary Fund.
The government ordered banks to allow depositors to withdraw at least 7,000 pesos ($1,900) from formerly frozen time-deposit accounts starting tomorrow. At least two banks — the Spanish-owned Banco Francés and Banco Rio — began allowing withdrawals immediately.
The thawing of the accounts is an important test for the country's banking system, protected by tight restrictions imposed last December to halt panicked withdrawals by depositors who feared — rightly, as it turned out — that the peso was about to be devalued. Customers took some $20 billion out of the banks over the 11 months before the freeze was imposed, as Argentina slid into collapse.
The government expects some of the newly released cash to be quickly spent, giving retailers and the economy a welcome bit of stimulus.
The move could also be a first step toward a broader solution to the frozen-deposit problem, analysts said, with balances over the 7,000-peso limit likely to be converted into a blend of government and bank-issued bonds. Clearing up the problem is a major precondition set by the I.M.F. for the resumption of economic aid.
"Over the past two months, Argentina's financial numbers have shown a clear improvement," said Carlos Pérez, executive director of Fundación Capital, a research group here. "It could allow the financial system gradually to start normalizing."
After eroding sharply early in the year, Argentina's central bank reserves have climbed back over $9 billion, and the banking system's liquidity — ready assets as a percentage of total deposits — has climbed to 18 percent from 11 percent three months ago, Mr. Pérez said.
"But does that mean Argentina's problems are over?" he asked. "Not at all. The improvement is still precarious rather than robust."
Officials at Banco Francés, owned by Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria of Spain and reinforced in June by an additional $250 million in capital from the Spanish parent, said bank branches were operating normally and there had been no mad rush to pull out the 10,000 pesos ($2,750) the bank was allowing each saver to withdraw.
Still, many customers were seizing the opportunity. "I don't know what I'll do with it, but I'm not leaving it in here," said Julieta Marquez, a 41-year-old homemaker, as she left one Buenos Aires branch of Banco Francés with her savings.
Her sister-in-law, Elisabete Guillermo, 30, said she would use her money to support herself and her 11-year-old son until she could raise enough cash to go to Japan, where she has family.
One source of dissatisfaction was the fact that withdrawals were paid in pesos, even for accounts that had originally been deposited in dollars. Advocacy groups have staged protest after protest in Argentina recently demanding that dollar accounts be repaid in dollars, without success, and many customers seemed ready to accept pesos.
When the accounts were created, one peso was worth one dollar; that rate had been fixed since the early 1990's. But the peso was floated in January, after the freeze was imposed, and has since lost more than two-thirds of its value, slumping to 3.65 to the dollar.
Most analysts today foresaw little new downward pressure on the peso from the account thaw, because the central bank has enough reserves to cope even if savers chose to immediately convert every unfrozen peso they could get into dollars, some $400 million to $500 million.
Many also predicted that savers would leave much of their money on deposit for now and draw it out later to cover daily living costs.
"A lot of people are accepting this because they need the money to buy food or medicines — basically they need to survive," said Juan Seliman, the owner of a sporting goods store who has organized a pressure group called the Association of Swindled Argentine Savers.
"I personally won't accept it, until they tell me they'll give me my savings back in dollars," he said, "but I fear most people will give in. We don't have the powerful lobby the banks have."
Mr. Perez said the success of the thaw will depend on the courts, where individual depositors have won a series of rulings granting them full access to their funds despite the freeze, and on success in getting new assistance from the I.M.F. to ease pressure on the banking system.
There were signs today that an Argentine delegation to Washington led by the economy minister, Roberto Lavagna, was edging toward a deal with the fund's negotiators. The president of the central bank, Aldo Pignanelli, promised that if the talks succeed, the bank will print no more pesos this year, showing its resolve to head off any danger of hyperinflation.
"This is not the last chapter in this story, but on the whole it is a positive step," said Fernando Losada, chief Latin American economist at ABN Amro in New York. "The I.M.F. would have liked to see current accounts eased first, because that's where a lot of working capital is cooped up," he said, referring to business and personal checking accounts, which were not affected by today's thaw.
"But the bottom line is that it is a positive step," he added.
OttoGraham
10-01-02, 15:47
Nibu,
Saint is right. If we knew how the peso would be a year from now, we could all be rich men.
Honestly, I don't think it makes much difference, as prices in Argentina are going to continue to fluctuate - if the peso drops, you can guess that prices in general will rise, and vice versa.
If you are sitting on a whole lot of pesos, I would do what every other wise Argentine does, and that is get rid of them and convert to dollars!
-Otto
EZE_Amante
10-01-02, 20:23
Interesting story about crime in Argentina:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/GWeekly/Story/0,3939,785497,00.html
EZE :)
Can you buy Viagra without a prescription in Argentina?
THX
Octatron, viagra as all non-narcotics are for sale without perscription in BA. but, somtimes you run into a sales clerk that dosn't know he can sell it to you...just move on to the next place or return to the same one after a shift change...I purchased V from 3 seperate Reccoletta pharmacias during the month of june 02.
Viagra (Sildenafil) *** This is not an advertisement ***
Gentlemen, I'm in the medical world (not giving too much...), we are all sharing information here, so it would be remiss of me not share the following. I have heard on the UK hospital grapevine that there is some really nasty mock-Viagra being peddled (illegal generic substitute). Just to be on the safe side, and especially if your Spanish is not so hot, make sure you are given the proper branded Pfizer product.
I've seen a lot of messed up guys; trust me you don't want to get a grade-1 priapism (That is a prolonged and extremely painful erection that can last a few days: surgical intervention is the only answer… {…and before you ask, no they don't cut it off!})
Please excuse the 101 Med. Sci. ~ but you will appreciate its important in this thread's context.
Regards, Havanaman
Yabba....a question...have you purchased the generic sildenafil or the brand Viagra in BA without a presecription? I have purchased the former but not the latter.
Ezy,
Yes, you can buy it over the counter at the pharmacy in the Super Mercado Norte, at the corner of Julio and Rivadavia.
Moondog
Havanaman is correct. Be careful when buying Viagra in foreign countries. There are tons of "mock" viagra being peddled across Mexico and Central and South America not to mention Europe. Especially now with the economic meltdown in South America there is increased risk of getting fake medication.
I never buy any medication in foreign countries due to this reason. I'm not saying that you'll get fakes...just be careful and know what you're getting.
ezy...the blue pills said pfizer on them and had to be pushed through a foil bottom with a see through window above, they came in the sealed pfizer box and were the same price as in the states...about ten bucks US per pill...but you only need a half of the 50mg pill...only the brand name were for sale in BA.
Yabba,
The description of the vitamin-V you bought: the wording on the tabs, its blister-pack packaging and the box sounds like the real deal.
Also, I've paid about the same price in the UK. My goodness, aren't Pfizer racking it in! I would have expected to pay a little less in Argentina ~ based on the current economic situation….
Anyway, as long as it works for me on the rare (…..and I do mean rare!….) occasions I need / want it…..
Regards, Havanaman
Delta Airlines announced today along with their horrible earnings that it may suspend all service to BA and Rio to cut costs...Heads up...
Yabba,
Can you post the link to that news. I know Delta is already cancelling their routes to BA and Rio AFTER December 1st. Did the report say they might suspend flights immediately? I already have a ticket for November bought and paid for. Thanks in advance.
Saint
P.S. The only news I read was on Yahoo that read as follows:
"Delta also plans to review and possibly cancel flights to unprofitable markets such as Rio de Janeiro and Buenos Aires."
OutoftheGame
10-19-02, 07:33
I would agree to not paying attention to johan post. I believe the greatest thing about this part of the board is that the gentleman here are exactly that. We are not all looking to bang a girl in Thailand or some other poverty ridden country for a couple of dollars and think it's the greatest place on Earth. You all seem to be in love with not only the women but more importantly the place and people that live there as well. I myself am not interested to going on a 12 hour plane flight for vacation and be disgusted by my surrroundings. Buenos Aires sounds like a great city that has alot of culture, which in and of itself is a great reason to visit. Then add to that that your able to find the services of a beautiful and intelligent woman with so much ease, and if that is not enough it is over a third cheaper now compaired to less than a year ago. So some other board sites might prefer to search for $5 dollar street girls, but the gentleman that post in this section I believe prefer women not trash.
OUTOFTHEGAME, Absolutely right about BA! Forgetting about the fact that the women are absolutely charming, sophistocated and let's not forget GORGEOUS, BA is a fascinating blend of neighborhoods founded by the Spanish, French, Germans, British, Dutch, etc, etc,. Many people say that architecturally it's a hybrid of Madrid and Paris and personally, having been to both places, I have to agree. The people are friendly to the extreme and are almost embarassed when you say "Gracias" as their answer often indicates when they respond "POR FAVOR" as if to say, "please don't thank me, it's my pleasure". Most of the people you meet will be so in tune with what's going on in the states since most are avid readers of newspapers, non-fiction and fiction, in addition to which they're avid movie theatre goers and of course they're watching primarily Hollywood product there. Then they turn on the tv and they're watching primarily our sitcoms, cartoon channels, etc, so they're generally a joy and a pleasure to be around provided you know some Spanish.
The city has a wonderful transportation sytem too with "El Colectivo" busses, "El Subte" subway system, which is easy and efficient to navigate around and around 60,000 taxis riding around la Capital Federal or BA as we know it. BA has so many taxis that it feels like there's a personal taxi waiting for you the second you want one, unlike NYC where there are far more people wanting taxis than available cabs and often it seems like it takes forever to hail one in NY.
And the sights, yes, BA boasts the widest road in the world, Avenida 9 de Julio which at certain times of the day and depending on traffic could take nearly 5 minutes to cross. Not to mention a few great horse tracks, dining on la Costanera Norte overlooking the Rio Plata, two great soccer teams a stone's throw away from one another, the greatest Tango dancers and shows in the world, the resting place of the Great South American Liberator San Martin, gorgeous zoos, parks and museums and on and on and on.
Let's not forget about the food too and not just the famous Argentinian beef since their pastas and chicken are among the finest in the world too.
I could go on and on and on, Outof thegame, but suffice it to say that when you're not wining and dining or just bedding down the literally thousands of fine available chicas, there are more things to do and see there than you could possibly see in a month. Have a great time. DownBA
downba....great post about a great city. You should consider changing your handle to UpBA!!! sonrisa
p.s. I leave for BA tomorrow night....thanks for helping to remind me of why I go so often...the women, certainly, but the city, the people, the food, the culture are all second to none....if only the government didn't suck!!!
Ezy, I've got a passion for the city, the culture, the women, the food of BA like a raging hard-on, to use a graphic analogy!!! I'm going down the end of the first week of November and am now in counting-the-day mode. Fortunately I'm able to find a good business excuse to go down there for a week at a time here and there. But I'd love to be able to get to the next level where I can find an excuse to go down for 3 weeks here and there. Ah, poco a poco mi amigo.
Have you noticed how they say "POR FAVOR!!" when you say Gracias as I wrote in my post? I think it's the funniest thing how they practically spurn the word Gracias. The locals that I know other than the working chicas seem like they'd give me the shirt off their back even though they can't afford to buy another one at present. They always seem to clamor for an opportunity to sit down and have a meal and a nice glass of wine with an American gringo so they can talk about each other's respective lives. Gotta love the folks down there from every cab driver who won't waste a second before he gives his opinion on the US and Argentinian politics to the cute little receptionist who does the same all the while giving you the sweetest, cutest little looks.
Have a great time down there Ezy, sorry our trips didn't coincide this time. Maybe next time. UpBA errr DownBA
JamesBond69
10-19-02, 21:32
[QUOTE]Originally posted by DownBA
[i]Ezy, I've got a passion for the city, the culture, the women, the food of BA like a raging hard-on, to use a graphic analogy!!! I'm going down the end of the first week of November and am now in counting-the-day mode. Fortunately I'm able to find a good business excuse to go down there for a week at a time here and there. But I'd love to be able to get to the next level where I can find an excuse to go down for 3 weeks here and there. Ah, poco a poco mi amigo.
the "next level" shouldn't be that difficult - investing in dollars, creating goods with pesos and a highly educated inexpensive work force and exporting them to be paid in dollars, rolling over the profits.
With the slightest bit of business acumen you should be able to come up with a going concern DownBA.
Gentlemen,
I'm propagating a couple of non-pro chica pen palls in readiness for my December visit (always exploring new avenues!)…
one of them tells me that it is possible to get to Uruguay by ferry (her word) from BA. Geographically this seems possible (certainly Colonia, San Jose & Montevideo).
1. Can a fellow hobbiest confirm this and / or provide details?
2. Any guys in BA from 13 Dec to 23 Dec? I'd like to hook up with an experienced master for one nights hunting / learning.
Your help appreciated. (please post Uruguay info to Uruguay board for me…). BA hook up potential please post here or email me sedition2001@hotmail.com
Regards, Havanaman
you can take a ferry to uraguay. i haven't done it, but i've discussed it with locals.
if your destination is punta, you may take a two hour ferry that drops you in a small port town, only a 15 minute taxi from punta. this is a nice option vs. flying, i'm told.
don't know about ferries to montevideo, although i think i've seen discussion of them.
Leo,
Thanks for confirming this. It looks like a quick jaunt to Uruguay in December me then!
Regards, Havanaman
Ferry BA to Montevideo is 2.5 hours (high speed boat).
Ferry BA to Colonia is 1 to 2.5 hours, depending on whether you take the fast boat or the slow boat.
There a number of departure times each way each day to each destination, although as I recall there are more to Colonia than Montevideo.
The main ferry terminal (Buquebus) is at the end of Av. Cordoba, five blocks east of Gallerias Pacifico. I have had no trouble buying tickets and clearing customs when I showed up an hour before departure, but booking in advance is of course possible.
Customs operates very efficiently in the ferry buildings. And its easy to change money in Uruguay, and they like dollars anyway.
Buses connect Colonia and Montevideo (3 hours) so if you have a few days, see them both.
HF
Hobby Fan,
Thank you for this excellent information. Off hand, do you know if a European needs a visa to cross from BA to Uruguay? I know that to enter Argentina a visa is not required for Europeans.
Much appreciated.
Regards, Havanaman
and i believe there is a third ferry to uraguay, best for going to punta, which takes you to a small port down (not monte or colonia). this is a relatively new service added in the last 8 mos or less...
again, my info is from discussions only, not first-hand knowledge.
Leo,
Thanks for the I formation. I will investigate it further via emails to my chica penpalls: Punta is closest from what I can see on my maps.
Can I take this opportunity to thank you for all the excellent reporting recently. From my view, that is a first timer, it is very usefull to get the whole picture. The hobby for me is not just chicas (...well mainly it is ....) but then what about the country we are hunting in, the people (including amatures...), culture etc... and also the shopping! I can go between 2 - 3 times a day before I have to rest (its an age thing they tell me!) ~ so alternative distractions are always welcome. And its the only way to become properly "well travelled".
Good on you for your reporting. By the way, I should like to see stoly's reports; but then I suppose it takes courage to expertly set up a decent day, especially when time is limited LOL.
Thanks once again Leo.
Regards, Havanaman
Havanaman:
Per 2002 Lonely Planet guide, Western Europe and US residents are given automatic visas on entry to Uruguay. I have no more recent information.
Hobby Fan, Gentlemen,
I just phoned the consulate ~ you are right Hobby Fan, no hassles with visas for European and USA citizens travelling to Uruguay.
The women also added (confiming your earlier statement Hobby Fan) that for tourists the US $ is "king"... It gets better and better.
Thank you again Hobby Fan for all the information.
Regards,
Havanaman
EZE_Amante
10-27-02, 14:27
The reason for this post, is that I came across not literally) an internet escort site before my last trip that has several younger girls, 19 year old range. So, while I was there I called, but the owner explained that the girls are in Rosario, which I should have known from the phone number. Anyway, many of there faces are hidden, but I was assured that they are the real pics of the girls available, and at 19 years old, how bad could they be. It looks like a source of untapped (for this forum) talent for my November trip. Rosario looks to be an hour and a half or so from BA. Anyone who knows for sure, please post.
The url is: http://www.supergatitas.com/principal.htm
EZE :)
EZE_amante:
Rosario is 300km north of Buenos Aires. You can hardly get there in 90 minutes, unless you are Schumacher driving a Ferrari.
Expect 3.5 hours to get there.
The pros of the innerland are:
- Girls may be more friendly and open than in BA.
- Prices may be cheaper.
The cons of the innerland:
- Talent (looks, but not attitude) may be subpair respect to Buenos Aires (stunners go where the money is).
- Infrastructure is for sure subpair (poorer houses and hotels).
Hope this helps,
Andres
EZE_Amante
10-28-02, 00:03
Andres,
Just finalized plans to buy the Ferrari and change my name, jk, thanks for the info. The only reason I posted is that the girls seem to be younger on this site than those for BA. The one I spoke with on the phone certainly seemed sweet, but then don't they all.
EZE
Originally posted by Havanaman
...
Good on you for your reporting. By the way, I should like to see stoly's reports; but then I suppose it takes courage to expertly set up a decent day, especially when time is limited LOL.
Hmmm, and what that would mean ? I've been in BA once and have a report on it. Also posted about three or four of the other 7-8 countries that I've visited, the ones left out were just too old stuff. You can find all this using 'search by user'.
Gentlemen,
Please read my posts dated 10-08-02 and 10-09-02 Some more information for you:
Viagra (sildenafil citrate), comes in 3 presentations (25mg, 50mg, 100mg) (for Europe at least, these presentations may be different in other countries). The tabs are a beautiful pastel blue colour, and diamond shaped. The real deal tabs, say Pfizer, VGR on the tab.
As with all Phosphodiesterase type-5 inhibitors (PD-5), caution is recommended specifically with cardiovascular patients (heart disease and blood pressure, including diabetics).
Pfizer say that the ideal dose is 50mg, about an hour before you burn rubber. However, my experience (personal, colleague anecdotal and from the literature), suggests that it is best to trial the lowest dose first….
Stick with the Pfizer brand gentlemen, you are taking too much of a risk otherwise. Apart from potentially ending up in an emergency ward… (just think about it, on your back on a trolley, but under a tent!), you run the risk of inducing serious cardiovascular problems. In the end it comes down to what you trust. Me, I trust the pure, clean, well made stuff and nothing else.
As for Bilfort 50…. Never heard of it. To the best of my knowledge Pfizer still have the patent on vitamin-V. There are literally thousands of (PD-5) inhibitors available in nature (herbals…), many of which will be being sold on the back of the words "Viagra-like" however they all have varying effects albeit vaguely similar biochemistry. I read that Pfizer spend about $250,000,000 developing vitamin-V. Who are you going to trust a "nickel and dime" company selling "Viagra-like" pseudo-viagra or a tried and TESTED real deal…
Its worth taking note of EZE_go's words, even the pure stuff can be dangerous if too much is take. Stay with the low dose, you can top up after a few hours if you need to. I have personally lasted 6 rounds (2 different women) in one day by quartering a 50mg tab using a scalpel blade… The first few "kicks" the best, but you can still walk around with a decent semi for a good few hours.
WHAT TO DO IF YOU'R STARTING TO PANIC: Breath! Simple. Start deep breathing if your hard-on lasts longer than 4 hours, and your getting worried. IT WILL GO DOWN. Take a cold shower (The British, during the Victorian period, recommended cold showers to soften a hard-on, come to think of it so did Mr. Kellogg of sugar coated cardboard fame…), grab some food (high in sugar {sugar coated cardboard?}), this is known to redirect blood flow to the stomach area, and will contribute to helping speed up the return of Mr. Softy. You might also like to try the old pinching the end of it trick, but take care with your nails. If this all fails and you are really starting to worry, call a doctor.
Stick with the pastel-blue diamonds! Get the real deal. Stay safe, stay hard. (I should sell that last line to Pfizer!)
Regards, Havanaman
PS-i. The above is a total work of fiction and not intended to be medical advice in any way shape or form. If such advice is sought, then you should see a non-mongering doctor… LOL.
PS-ii. I heard that Pfizer are currently trialing a female-viagra…, indeed every pharmaceutical company worth its tabs is looking into this billion dollar market…. Yes even the "nickel and dime" brigade…
PS-iii. Havanaman is not a representative of Pfizer, nor does he own any of their stock. However he is considering buying shares on the back of a little known but definite increase in the tourist trade heading for Argentina …
OttoGraham
10-29-02, 13:05
Originally posted by stoly
One word about 'generics in general' and why they are a good thing - let aside vanity drugs like viagra and the 50c you save when buying a painkiller, these are only alternative to save lives and cure epidemic diseases (AIDS) for many poor countries that can't pay exorbitant prices to globalized pharmaceutical giants. Even the 'first world' countries with a public healthcare are hugely benefitting (in fact, avoided collapse) from the savings and in many cases put in place a policy that mandates uses of generic drugs, unless the physician has a compelling argument to use the brand name.
Briefly - pharmaceutical companies spend tens of millions of dollars on developing new drugs to fight disease. If they are not allowed to profit on their investment in this intellectual property through means of patent laws, they won't develop these new drugs, period. Ripping off those companies by allowing anybody to produce cheap "generics" in violation of patent rights will in the long run do almost as much damage as the diseases themselves.
-Otto
Haha, That was funny, Viagra profits go towards AIDS cures?!?!
Incorrect, Viagra profits go towards more research for a stronger version of viagra, propecia, rogaine and other cosmetic drugs!
Luckily you and I don't need AIDS medicine, but I know people who deal with the infected, Otto, If only you knew how obscenely expensive the medicines are you would know that they make enough money to research AIDS medicine from the prices of the AIDS medicine alone, These companies like to ***** and moan all the time, while charging full retail prices on AIDS medicine, It is because of numerous private and publicly funded groups that subsidize the prices of AIDS drugs to the public so that they only have to pay a few hundreds a month instead of thousands for treatment, NOT THE DRUG COMPANIES. Maybe in an Ideal world people would use US government funds for solving this problem instead of billions being signed off for a bombing run on Iraq.
Stoly,
Firstly: Don't quote me out of context.
If your reread my post it should become clear that the "vaguely similar biochemistry" refers to the plethora of herbals available. And yes, they do have vaguely similar biochemistry. Although you are correct in saying the following, and I accurately quote: "generic manufactured with the normal industry standards of purity and potency", you may not realise that this only applies to the main compound ~ it does not apply to excipients, inactive stabilisers or indeed packaging. Your so called "normal industry standards" will be normal and standard for the country of manufacture: any country of manufacture from Albania to Zambia.
There is no globally agreed pharmaceutical standard, you may trust a second or third world medicine; I would not prescribe, take, or indeed recommend such a preparation unless it was peer reviewed on a "brand" named basis.
It should also be noted that mainline pharmaceutical companies often sell (or lease out) the active compound to the generic houses, after that compound has reached 70% of its patent longevity. This is what I have been told by pharmaceutical representatives that I have seen. Apparently the strategy here is to create a secondary market and thus income when the patent is totally expired. The generic house then makes whatever profit it can. SO, in the case of sildenafil citrate, Pfizer could sell it to ARG-Pharmaceuticals who are free to add excipients and inactive stabilisers from their own sources during their tabletting process. This is legal, and the root cause of both the horror stories we hear, as well as the litigation. Oftentimes we see the horror stories because the generic medication's excipients have reacted with either alcohol or another medication being concomitantly taken, or both.
Secondly: Branded medicines help fund medical research. Whether this is done for profit or philanthropy is irrelevant. The bottom line is such research is enabled. Tio Otto has explained this very well, and I agree with him.
Thirdly: Yes, you are right, even first world countries are trying to save money by using generics; however as any good clinician knows it is better to start a treatment with a branded (tried and tests) therapy, then move to a generic if and only if the original therapy worked and there is a need for longer term therapy. A classic example of this in medicine is the inhaled steroids ~ a large number of "generics" were withdrawn (Europe & USA) due to either side effects or inadequacy. Generic (non-original branded) medication is initiated as first line therapy for innocuous, simple ailments such as coughs and colds etc. The cost of generics is not necessarily cheaper than branded.
Fourthly: Would you please share your source when you say "chances of experiencing a priapism episode are the same for both the patented or generic version…". I can't find the relevant thread in WSG, maybe you are referring to another source? I would love to read this comparative study ~ I'm always looking to advance my knowledge, as I'm sure you are.
Gentlemen,
Take your pick. The ayes for safety and sensibility will always take care when they are self medicating. Sildenafil (Pfizer's Viagra…) is an excellent compound, it was not developed to be an over the counter / freely available recreational drug, and certainly not a "vanity drug". It has a very good clinical basis, and was developed as such. The psychological advantages it confers on patients is also an important issue. It does have a rather frightening adverse events profile in specific patients groups. The old adage of "always read the label" really does apply. It's also worth noting, especially for a traveller, that the said label should be in a language you understand.
Get the real deal. Stay safe, stay hard.
Regards, Havanaman
PS- Pfizer turned my strap-line down, they said they don't need the money. Apparently their profits increased recently; correlating very well with an increase in airline ticket sales to Argentina LOL...
JamesBond69
10-29-02, 20:10
There is a Viagra section, where these type of posts fit in fine
Personally I rather read about "life in the trenches" of BA
i.e. experiences at Blacks, Ness, internet services, etc.
Is anyone there that has something to report?
Originally posted by jamesbond69
There is a Viagra section, where these type of posts fit in fine
Personally I rather read about "life in the trenches" of BA
i.e. experiences at Blacks, Ness, internet services, etc.
Is anyone there that has something to report?
Right. I've removed my posts. Other should do the same.
what's that, something to report? ok...here goes
sf ****** said: We didn´t want to stand, so we left without drinking and moved on to Madaho´s to find Ezy. He wasn´t successful in locating the chica we wanted so he seemed to become progressively quieter, apparently not seeing anything that interested him.
The rest of the story: I slept alone this night, but phoned the chica from Madaho's the next afternoon. We agreed to meet that night at my apartment. As it turned out, this was a very good move since it was raining.
Eliana is a raven haired, petite chica, about 23 years old. I had noticed her cute little butt several nights earlier as she and a friend danced to the thumping beat of some latin tune....I whispered in her ear that she had a nice ass (trasero in Argentina...though culo is also understood).....
She arrived on time and greeted me with a big kiss. After 30 or so minutes of sipping champagne on the sofa, holding hands and getting to know each other a little, eliana leaned over and planted a big kiss on my lips to indicate she was tired of talking. To underscore her point her tounge met mine....off we went to the bedroom....
Eliana seems to enjoy most everthing, especially bbbj's....a skill she provides with particular expertise......A small scorpion tattoed above her right breast was the only mark on an otherwise flawless body. She was shaved, which I like, and took great pride in standing above me and shaking her thing in my face.....
her arriba, her abajo, en cuatro, basically everywhich way was to her liking.....after about 20 minutes she finished while riding me...and collapsed on my shoulder....took a couple of deep breaths and started again....By the time she finished a second time, I was over the edge.....
Satisfied, she collapsed on the bed and was asleep in less than two minutes. She awakended me at 6 for another round, and off she went....Get this: since we had only contracted for a two hour session, she did not even attempt to ask for more money since she spent todalanoche with me....After a couple of clothed photos, she was out the door with the agreed upon 200pesos and a nice tip.....
If you are ever in Madaho's I highly recommend this girl!!! She also works part-time out of Cafe Orleans.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
News regarding airline travel within Argentina.
I just got an email from Mayri. The Argentine airlines have started gringo pricing for foreigners. They are not honoring prior reservations made at the old prices. Mine were made back in August. I am cancelling most of my travel plans within Argentina and will be spending more time in Brazil. Fortunately for BA, I only have to use taxis.
DCRAIN and others:
A relative of mine who is an American citizen wanted to travel to Uruguay by plane, and he was surprised when he found out that he should pay a gringo price. So take this into account if you want to go to Punta del Este by plane. You may have to pay several times the fee for a local.
I paid $430 for a MIA-EZE-MIA trip in Aerolineas scheduled by the end of the year. I heard that a friend of mine (Argentinian living in the US) was asked $850 for a ticket for these days if bought last week.
Hope this helps,
Andres
lotsafun:
I think that he wanted to use a local airline (Southern Winds or similar). I don't know if you can book these airlines from abroad.
Andres
I believe Mayri said that the airline was Aerolineas. Considering American changed all my flights last week, my eyes glazed over as I was reading her email. I am sure it is causing her and all the travel agents a lot of grief. As a consumer, the only real way to protest is to stop using the airlines service. I will look at my options when I get there, but Rio/Brazil is looking a lot better than some of the side trips that I previously had planned. And less trips would leave me more time to spend in BA. There are worse fates in life. lol.
I will soon be flying in from Europe. I wonder if anybody could give me some advise on what money to bring.
Should I bring US dollars in cash, or is US travlers checks the way to go? Whats the pros and cons? Is it easy to change travlers checks?
How easy is it to take out money from a visa or a mastercard. How much to they charge. Do I have to go to a bank or can I just use my card in a machine? Whats the charge?
I would be very happy if anyone could help me with these questions.
BA_ROBERT
ba_Robert. TRAVELER's CHECKS can be awkward to cash, other than American Express. AXP has an office on Plaza San Martin and will exchange for dollars or pesos with a very minimal commission. CREDIT CARDS....more and more it has become a gamble to find a bank machine that will give you cash. I have not had too much of a problem, but the bank that dispenses money one day may not honor your card the next. CASH is KING....use the safe in your hotel and use TC's and CC's as a back up....
ezy,
thanks for the info. The American express office on Plaza San Martin that you mention, is it open on regular business hours or?
Also, I've heard that at the hotel Etoile one can use creditcards to pay one's hotel bill without any charge. Does anyone know if this is true?
BA_ROBERT
BA_Robert
You can pay your bill by credit card at Etoile without incurring any surcharge. This was according to Maria at the reservation.
Bandy
Originally posted by BA_ROBERT
I will soon be flying in from Europe. I wonder if anybody could give me some advise on what money to bring.
Should I bring US dollars in cash, or is US travlers checks the way to go? Whats the pros and cons? Is it easy to change travlers checks?
I would be very happy if anyone could help me with these questions.
BA_ROBERT
Hi there,
just a quick note to tell you that I was in BA last week for 7 days & 7 nights, flying from Europe, precisely from Frankfurt (great fare with Lufthansa). I am Italian but don't live in Italy.
You can bring Euros with no problem, don't bother changing Euros (or Sterling if you live in the UK) into USD and then again into Pesos. I had no problem whatsoever changing directly Euros into Pesos.
If you have any other question you can contact me at: rob_roy5@hotmail.com
Ciao, RO
ro...sorry I missed you at Cafe Orleans. I ran into two guys who said they had spoken with you and that you had changed plans and would arrive the next day. I was tied up (not literally) and never made it back....hope you had a good BA experience!!!
Originally posted by ezy
ro...sorry I missed you at Cafe Orleans. I ran into two guys who said they had spoken with you and that you had changed plans and would arrive the next day. I was tied up (not literally) and never made it back....hope you had a good BA experience!!!
ezy ... no problem at all, thanks anyway, I know the 2 guys you are talking about, I met them on Sunday 27 and Monday 28, we had a great "laugh" together. Actually I did arrive on Sat 26 but during the day I had to change my plans because ... I had some business ... I guess you know what I mean ... it was my first day in HEAVEN and I really took advantage of it !!!
Overall it was an amazing week and I will go back as soon as I can, probably early next year.
Anyway I have to say few words in defense of Black, which has been "attacked" in the last few days ... I went there 5 nights out of 7, had a great time in there, especially on Thursday 31st (Halloween), you guys should have seen the talent in there on the 31st, it was just amazing, even for European standards - also it was my 29th birthday and few of the girls (for a very strange situation) knew about it and they were very nice & friendly to me ... I can tell you, some of them are real sweethearts, not pros or cold as they might look like ... but I will post extensively in the next few days about my "adventures" ... A special greeting to Saint ... man, I had the best time of my life, I'll send you few pics as soon as I can ...
does an american with an american drivers license need any other document/id to rent a car and/or drive a car in argentina?
i plan to fly to mar del plata during my late-dec visit, and i would like to rent a car to visit pinamar for a day/night.
and any other info on the best or most economical method for renting a car (in mar del plata) would be appreciated.
thanks!
Leo:
You shouldn't have any problem renting a car, neither in Argentina or Uruguay. With your US driver license it should suffice.
However, be aware that South American drivers (with the exception of Chileans) drive like crazy. A friend of mine from Miami who wanted to follow the driving rules was collided by a colectivo whose driver expected him to violate an "early" red light. So think twice before renting.
Hope this helps,
Andres
Gentlemen,
I have had a number of guys email me about my non-pro scene tactics (from this board as well as from mongers on other country boards). To save me time here are my basic tactics. This is not the complete list, as each element has many permutations, and adaptations which one can do. I work strategically and in a systematic style, so although seemingly very structured and rigid, this element of my tactics is actually very dynamic and sociable.
Anyway, my tactics, much like yours, is to enjoy the whole scene. I love the hunt for both the pro and non-pro chicas. I prefer the GFE experience so much that I will always go that extra “mile” / dinero / present / flowers / meal out etc... Over the years this has worked very well and is no longer a chore. Quite the opposite infact. However in the early years it is difficult. Here's what I do, Please keep in mind that its nothing special, just a group of tactics:-
1. For direct pen pals...http://www.PenpalNet.com a great source of (female) email potentials. The grouping is by age, so take your pick. From this site I get about a 40% return in replies i.e. females, the rest are men (5%) or no reply (55%). I use a standard form letter as my introduction usually along the lines of wanting to learn their language with a female / anyone and “…a good chance for you to practice your English…”. Its free and you get a basic profile when you register. You can even leave your own profile… (long term bait). I just delete all men writing to me, except 1 (this is to retain a male contact in the country I’m visiting). This tactic serves to create a group of female pen pals in my country of interest. We exchange photo’s. If my interest is excited by the initial picture I go one step deeper in initiating a little more intimacy in the emails. I reserve only single, childless women (rather than going into the emotional or medical dynamics of childbirth, lets just say I like tight boxes). If I’m not into the picture, then I still keep the contact going; you never know when you might need a female friend in the country you are going to visit. You can apply this method, for any one of a few hundred sites offering pen pal contacts. Some are free, others charge, still others are a combination (www.amigos.com). I have stuck with the free ones and it has proved useful. Although long winded, this method has been very useful to me in my forward planning, for example for my forthcoming BA trip this December, I have cultivated 2 chicas over a period of almost 10 months. Both are potential GFE material now. I have sent flowers to each, cards etc… From this batch, I also have another 1 who is just going to be a friend: a good contact if needed. Remember, for me this is not about wanting to find love…. So I never loose perspective. I’ll see the chicas as and when I want, maybe get a bed session, maybe not… But its all hunting material, AND intermingled with the tried and tested pro-scene makes for excellent sport!
2. The Students: I like 18 – 25 year old chicas. I have come to accept that the lower end of my age preference is going to be mainly students, and the upper age end mainly pro’s. I say mainly, but there are always exceptions. I have managed to make contacts with female students using the following:
a) Find the main University in the city of interest: off course through the net. A scan of their site will show either, departmental access, students union access, or a board for leaving messages. Direct introductions are also excellent.
b) Departmental access: email the tutors, assuming your appropriate persona (I’m a student of xyz subject, looking to contact fellow students…. Would you please put the following short message on your notice board…. Etc…). {Aside: So, how do you become a 38 year old student? Simple…. You’ve made your money, and rather than spend the rest of your life squandering it, you’ve decided to re-educate yourself. What a commodity you just became: a rich student!}. This may sound odd, however, as I have been in an academic / hospital environment of one kind or another all my adult life, I can tell you it is an acceptable method. Medics, scientists, lecturers and all subject students alike want to communicate with their international counterparts. Done for separate departments, this is an excellent method. Use your intelligence when you do this as it is plain stupid to have 30 such emails going to different tutors in a single department. There is a real hit and miss potential here, however I must tell you that I have bedded 3 female lecturers with this method. The poorer the country the much higher the hit rate. It’s the reverse honey-pot… they want you / your money / your country. You know this and play the game.
c) Student union access: This is much the same as for the departmental, however differs in that you can make offers such as an exchange potential… A very powerful hook indeed. “I want to learn the language / am visiting / willing to pay for a guide…..” These also work well to initiate a contact. If the students union has a magazine, you can request a simple few line listing for a pen pal along the same line: language / guide etc… This really works as the students union is seeking to offer more and more services to its members.
d) University boards / chat: One of the very best and refined hunting methods IMHO. In this age of technology, just look at all the chat facilities, news groups and boards available. A veritable ocean in which to fish in. I have over a dozen female contacts all over the world which I have managed to bait in the chat forums… Usually the non-English speaking ones, both hemispheres of the planet. Just search for your language of choice + chat on the net. I spend a few minutes listening to the general babbling, then come in with “…anyone speak English…?” You would be surprised about how many want to talk to you, as English is a school / university subject. Also, if you come across chat-nick names which are obviously female, send a private message along the same line… Now, be advised, there is a group of imbecilic men, who for whatever perverted reason, pretend to be women. Yes, you guessed it, Havanaman has fallen prey to a couple of such individuals. Trust me, nothing tickles Havanaman’s prostate other than a women’s finger! It’s a disadvantage of the technique and so an acceptable loss of time… When you start to discuss your travel plans and meeting up, these imbecilic men either don’t email you back or just say they are not available. This being the case I drop them form the list. Introduce your potential of visiting as early as you can, after your third or fourth contact.
e) Direct introductions: Once contact is established, and before meeting the chica, I have on a few occasions, also been able to chat with a group of females having gained the introduction from the main contact online. That is, “practicing ‘the language’ in a group…”, then just send a private message to the one or all in the group having gained confidentiality “I’d like to get to know you better, but Abcc (main contact) may not like it… Female friends love taking “boys” from each other, especially if the “boy” is a valuable commodity. I have also financed a party (drinks, food, the usual things…) in student accommodations where my main contact has brought along a string of her friends (male & female)…. More chica material with which to exchange my details for future visits. Only done this once and so it is not a tried and test angle.
On a final note, it should be made clear that the above tactics require patients. They are not for everybody, and certainly have drawbacks in the context of the girl falling in love with you. I’m not an emotionless so and so, thus I make it clear from the start that its about fun, play and enjoyment: not a “will you be mine for ever” scenario. Its how you sell it that counts here. For a short term stay you need to be fast on your feet. Maybe the above will work for you, maybe not. It all depends on the amount of work you put in. I can honestly say that now that I have played this field for a few years this tactic works for me. When it is merged with other plays, and the direct pro-scene it makes for a wonderful chase. Over the years, I have kept contact with a large number of the women I have met this way, indeed some are now married with kids! Its all about how you sell it and how you sell yourself.
I hope this answers the questions about tactics. Those who emailed me and indeed others: please share your non-pro tactics. Game on!
Regards, Havanaman
Hman
While reading that your tactics require "patients", I thought for sure that you were about to tell us that not only are you lurking the third world schools and student unions for prey, but the hospitals as well. Since patience is not my best virtue I feel compelled to respond. It is quite ironic that you complain of being fooled by men posing as women when you yourself attempt to lure the poor starry eyed unsuspecting penpal into bed by portraying yourself as a wealthy student. Get a life man. It's just my opinion, but these tactics sound much more like a begginers guide to sexual predatorship than useful information. As for tactics, just purchase a ticket to BA, walk into any one of the clubs mentioned on this board, see someone you like, reach into your wallet and bingo, the hunt is over and the fun about to begin. Thats all it takes! No misconceptions, false hopes and mistaken identities.
This report appeared today in Pagina 12 newspaper (Buenos Aires - http://www.pagina12.com.ar/).
You may be interested in the issue. It's a typical banana republic history. Funny and sad at the same time.
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English
In the name of judge.
The process against the man who managed a chain of brothels in San Miguel (1), brothels who were protected by politicians in office and oilice officers from San Miguel, had a strange beginning. The district attorney in charge of the case recused Eduardo Frato, one of the judges of the #6 Vocal Tribunal of San Martin (2), because a similar name appeard in the notebook in which the accused party jotted down the payments to city hall and police representatives in retribution to allowing the brothels to be on business. Although the district attorney couldn't assert if the person mentioned there is effectively the judge, he argued that a cautionary action would be to separate the judge from the cause. The judge accepted the request and the cause became on hold.
The investigtion that uncovered the activities of Vicente Serio, the man who managed 3 brothels in San Miguel, was performed by "Telenoche Investiga" (3) in July 2000. A hidden camera showed Serio declaring that he paid $18,000 per month to "bribe" political functionaries and commissioners in the realm of Aldo Rico (4). Serio had 34 Paraguayan women, 6 of them under 18 y/o, locked and exploited in slavery in his 3 boliches: Imagina, Hawaii and El Porteño.
The case derived in a parallel cause for bribery that caused former Bonaerense Police chief Amadeo D'Angelo to resign. He did so the same day that his home was searched (5). In Mr Serio's notebook, there was a note pointing to "Northern Zone- Departmental Chief", whose chief by the time of the onset of the brothels was Mr D'Angelo. It seems that the protecting network of Mr Serio was so pervasive that the same day in which his home was searched, the court officers also searched the City Hall and the City Council of San Miguel.
The Vocal trial that was about to start yesterday would prosecute not only Mr Serio but also his wife Estela paredes and two supposed ex-partners, Juan Carlos Pacheco and José Francisco Bogado. Serio is accused of committing the crimes of "promotion and facilitation of prostitution, violation to Article 142 of the Federal Penal Code and affront to the sexual morality", an accusation that can be punished with up tp 25 years in prison in case that women are underaged (6).
The proposal surprised the members of the 6th Vocal Tribunal. "Even though we understand tha he may not be the judge who was mentioned in the notebook, to assure the transparency of the case it is proper to separate him", asked the district attorney. Some info sources revealed that it wouldn't be the judge but a city council representative, but the rumour couldn't be checked out. So the process arrive to a hold until the Tribunal decides who will replace judge Frato.
Meanwhile, it was known that in the next days many of the politicians and police officers who were mentioned in this misterious notebook will be required to declare in the parallel cause for bribery.
Notes:
(1) Suburb NW of Buenos Aires.
(2) Usually, lawsuits go through a written stage and then an oral stage. Since oral has different meanings in this forum, I used vocal.
(3) Famous TV program similar to those of "Good Cop".
(4) Mayor of San Miguel
(5) Don't know how to say "the police had an order to search the home".
(6) Be careful guys with girls who seem older than they are... Getting catched with an under 18 y/o girl in the hobby is serious in Argentina.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Spanish
En el nombre del magistrado
El juicio contra el ****** que regenteaba una red de prostíbulos en San Miguel, apañados por el poder político y policial del distrito de Aldo Rico, tuvo el comienzo más inesperado. El fiscal del caso pidió la recusación de uno de los magistrados del Tribunal Oral Nº 6 de San Martín, Eduardo Frato, porque un nombre igual al suyo aparecía en la famosa agenda en la que el imputado anotaba los pagos a funcionarios municipales y uniformados que le brindaban protección para que sus locales nocturnos pudieran funcionar. El fiscal Raúl Serraco aclaró que no pudo corroborar si la persona mencionada es el juez o un homónimo. “Si bien eso no quiere decir que se trate del juez, entendemos que para la transparencia de este proceso corresponde su alejamiento”, sostuvo Serraco. El magistrado aludido aceptó alejarse del caso, se excusó y sorpresivamente el juicio debió suspenderse.
La pesquisa que dejó al descubierto las actividades de Vicente Serio, el ****** que regenteaba los tres prostíbulos en San Miguel, fue realizada por “Telenoche investiga” en julio del 2000. Una cámara oculta del programa mostró a Serio cuando revelaba que pagaba unos 18 mil pesos mensuales para “arreglar” a comisarías y a funcionarios políticos del reino de Rico. Serio tenía a 34 mujeres paraguayas –seis menores– encerradas y explotadas como esclavas en sus tres boliches, Imagina, Hawaii y El Porteño.
El caso derivó en una causa paralela por cohecho que en abril de este año le costó el cargo al entonces jefe de la Policía Bonaerense, Amadeo D’Angelo. En el marco de esa investigación, la casa de D’Angelo fue allanada y ese mismo día el comisario presentó su renuncia. En la misma libreta en la que aparece un nombre idéntico al del juez Eduardo Frato, bajo la palabra guía “arreglos” figuraba la “Jefatura Departamental Zona Norte” y a continuación una cifra de dinero. El jefe de esa departamental en aquel momento era D’Angelo. Al parecer, la red de prostitución y esclavitud de mujeres, que presuntamente dirigía Serio, tenía tal protección que el mismo día en que se realizó el procedimiento en el domicilio del ex jefe policial, también se allanó la municipalidad y el Concejo Deliberante de San Miguel.
El juicio oral que debía comenzar ayer no sólo iba a juzgar a Serio. También a su esposa, Estela Paredes, y a dos presuntos ex socios, Juan Carlos Pacheco y José Francisco Bogado. Serio está acusado de la presunta comisión de los delitos de “promoción y facilitación de la prostitución, infracción artículo 142 bis del Código Penal y ultraje a la moralidad sexual”, un delito que contempla penas de hasta 25 años de cárcel, en caso de que las mujeres sean menores de edad.
El planteo del fiscal Serraco sorprendió a los miembros del Tribunal Oral Nº 6 de San Martín. “Si bien eso no quiere decir que se trate del juez, entendemos que para la transparencia de este proceso corresponde su alejamiento”, planteó el fiscal al pedir la recusación de Frato por la presencia de un nombre igual al suyo en la famosa agenda de Serio. Algunas fuentes señalaron que no se trataría del magistrado sino de un concejal, pero la versión no pudo ser corroborada. El tema fue analizado por los integrantes del tribunal. Finalmente, el juez aludido se excusó de seguir interviniendo con el fin de “no afectar la credibilidad del tribunal” y en pos “de los derechos de los imputados”. Así, el proceso oral quedó suspendido sin fecha de inicio hasta que el tribunal decida quién será el nuevo juez que ocupe el lugar de Frato.
Mientras tanto, trascendió que en los próximos días varios de los policías y políticos que aparecían mencionados en esa misteriosa libreta serían llamados a declaración indagatoria en la causa paralela por presunto “cohecho”
------------------------------------------------------
I was in Imagina in 1999. It doesn't worth the try: Ugly women, dirty place and rooms and cheap dinks, not to mention the dark roads that you have to cross in order to get to these slumps.
Enjoy,
Andres
slick1, Gentlemen,
Unfortunately I don’t really have the time at the moment, however, I do invoking the right to reply, please rest assured that I will. It would be remiss of me not to do so in the interest of not only clarity but also in direct response to slick1’s erroneous and somewhat closed minded take on this tactic.
Those members who emailed me, including the 3 very well posted BA-masters and the one member in telephone contact, please rest easy that I will not be naming anyone in my reply.
Regards, Havanaman
JustGotBack
11-12-02, 18:18
FARE ALERT --- FARE ALERT -- FARE ALERT
I was just browsing fares online. UAL has a great fare if you depart on the 18th. I tried a couple of return dates, the 25th and the 26th and the fare is $310. Thats $385 with taxes.
I don't really want to get involved in a big controversy but I will give my 2 cents as always. I'm not even saying I'm correct on this issue but I agree with Slick1 to an extent. Havanaman, I don't know you and won't judge you. Your posts seem to be helpful to many. However, I do disagree with your tactic of lying to girls. There are better ways to meet people than intentionally lying to someone. Maybe by nature I'm just an honest person and I'm against the principle of lying.
I too am a member of Amigos.com. I have received over 100 unsolicited emails. I've even met some cuties from the site. Never have I lied about my age, occupation, etc. Have I left things out like the fact that I see tons of chicas? Yes. But it's one thing to not disclose something and quite another to intentionally lie to someone for the simple fact of meeting them.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. I prefer the pay to play girls. It's a lot quicker, easier and has less emotional baggage. I have been offered freebies by working girls and several guys from the board think I'm nuts not to accept the offer. The reason I don't is because it would complicate things and I don't like complications.
I'm not against meeting normal non-working chicas. I have approached and been approached by normal girls. I'm against lying to girls for the simple goal of maybe hooking up with one. There are simply too many other ways to meet girls. IMHO, life is too short for these kind of games.
Good luck all.
Saint
P.S. Remember nothing in this world is free. Freebies usually end up "costing more".
Originally posted by Havanaman
slick1, Gentlemen,
Unfortunately I don’t really have the time at the moment, however, I do invoking the right to reply, please rest assured that I will. It would be remiss of me not to do so in the interest of not only clarity but also in direct response to slick1’s erroneous and somewhat closed minded take on this tactic.
Those members who emailed me, including the 3 very well posted BA-masters and the one member in telephone contact, please rest easy that I will not be naming anyone in my reply.
Regards, Havanaman
Havanaman, do us all a favor and avoid taking space with another of your elaborate ravings on tactics, pharmaceuticals and whatnot. You will have more time to work your penpals with your cold, effective, time proven approach. And if it fails, you still have the backup of paying for sex like any common john here, or maybe you have a too high opinion of yourself to do that ?
Nice to know that not all BA-masters are so eager to follow your steps to the grand free pussy hunt, and have voiced their opinions, well done Slick1 and Saint.
Oh, and this time I won't delete my message like I did (and you did not) last time we debated off-topic. Members have already asked to stick on topic with relevant info but you preferred to ignore that and soapbox about your bedding victories over simplicity, trust and poverty.
Web-hosting starts a $4.95 and in all honesty I think it's an investment you should consider.
Ferolga777
11-12-02, 23:04
About Havanaman datin techniques
I for one enjoyed reading about Havanaman's techniques to meet nonpros, even if it's not exactly on topic. As long as it doesn't displace the main focus of this forum by having a long debate about their morality or how far they stray from the pure customer-sexworker experience.
I applaud Saint for stating his convictions about "hunting tactics" for non pros so eloquently. I agree 100%
Some would argue that all mongering exploits women. I disagree. Although there is certainly an element of illusion and fantasy involved, at its core there is a quid pro quo between client and prostitute....the exchange of sex for money. Let the games begin! I am a willing participant and eager to learn more from fellow posters.....
This cannot be said of "hunting" non pros based upon lies and deception. These tactics exploit women, purely and simply. Personally, I would rather see us stick to discussions of where to find pros in a given city, where to stay, where to eat, usual and customary fees, etc.
Some GSM cellular info for the global monger.
After much searching I came to the conclusion that the only active GSM operator in Argentina today is Personal Telecom, using a 1900 MHz network (same than the US). They have some info at http://www.personal.com.ar/gsm/index.html
Apparently the only way to get a local SIM and/or phone is walk-in at their center in Reconquista 1084. Price and activation modality are unknown but I'll try to find out when there.
Another thing is that if you're so maniac to want roaming of your GSM to Argentina, call your cell. company first and ask to be sure it works, last time they sweared to me that it id, just to find that the local network didn't accepted my phone - actually good news, considering that I dropped any pretense of being available 24/7 long time ago.
Gentlemen,
Please excuse the length of time it has taken me to reply; I’ve been covering for a colleague and back-to-back shifts are torturous. Anyway.
Without being flippant, I asked myself if there was such a thing as mass-misunderstanding, I haven’t done enough psychiatry / psychology to answer that, however I do feel that I have been misjudged. Let me clarify:
1. In themselves the “pen pal tactics” are not unique, nor original. They are just a method of potentially meeting people.
2. I, in no way whatsoever endorse the idea of being deceitful to others, that is “lying to the chicas”: its wrong. As a medic I am required to have a CPD (Continuous Professional Development) which gives me student status, plain and simple, regardless of working. Thus I can honestly call myself a mature student.
3. I am single, no kids, no long term relationship etc, and thus when asked about this I can reply with complete and total honesty. Indeed without guilt: both at the time of being asked (and unlike many others) when I return from my mongering trips. I wonder how many can honestly say that? Thus even telling lies by omission does not apply. They say “the truth shall set you free”, I agree. It sets you free from guilt, free from lies, free from passing on anything from lice to other nastiness to ones loved ones…
4. I use the term “hunting”, as a simple visual metaphor: nothing else. You see, for me the basic “pay and play” is excellent and has a place (in fact I think it’s healthy…). However, I asked myself is there more? And yes indeed there is. Contact, meet, and befriend women and see what happens. If anything happens then so be it, if not so be it. Did no one read my final remarks? I am still in contact with a large number of these friends, and I mentioned that some had indeed got married and had kids… This comes about from being honest, direct and straightforward. I have always made it abundantly clear that I am not interested in a long term relationship, that I like to have fun in life and that I offer NO commitment (I did say in my post “I am not an emotionless so and so…”). If this is acceptable to the women, then OK, if not, then that’s OK too. Was this not clear in the last paragraph? By the way, you may or may not be surprised by the actual number of women this directness is acceptable to. As with anything in life, its how you sell it. The more truth there is in the sell, the less worry and more enjoyment… Does no one see that?
5. Do you all think that one can play the complete monger game with this tactic? Not at all! It’s a method of meeting a wider selection of women who one can honourable communicate with to create a friendship. That’s all it is. If anything else develops well and good.
6. I happen to like a particular age group of adult women. The student scene (which I can say I fit into, yes as a rich student!) seems to offer that. I am not alone in this age group appreciation.
So, I hope this reasoning makes it abundantly clear that there is no deception intended or indeed needed. There is freedom, clarity, honesty, directness and mutual respect and pleasure. Did it not occur to anyone other than ferolga777 that nothing is gained from espousing duplicity? I do feel that I have been misunderstood; please reread the last paragraph: there really is nothing sinister in my approach. What others wish to do with the method is up to them.
I do hope that this post brings to a conclusion this particular thread; I had no intention in creating the debate. I was just replying en-mass to the emails I had received on the subject: my mistake. Can we agree to close this thread and move forward?
Regards,
Havanaman
PSi. I don’t need to “get a life”, I have one. Its excellent. Free from guilt. Free from hassles. Full of fun filled happiness: hard work, harder play… If there is a God, then God bless.
Psii. stoly, are you qualified to talk about pharmaceuticals? Let it go…
This is still (to my knowledge) Argentina general section so let see if we can have here some bits of readable/useful/interesting info, beside pompous mantras about 'Me, Myself and I'.
My latest discovery (thanks Andres for pointing to Pagina 12) is a funny Argentinian strip called 'Clara de noche'. The character (how appropriate for the WSG) is a working girl and I think it's a great way to improve your castellano with colloquial words and phrases in an easy & funny way - reading a comic strip !
You can find these online in the past issues of the 'NO' supplement to www.pagina12.com.ar - enjoy.
ATM vs. AMEX travelers checks.
Can anyone give me a comparison of the costs between the atm costs (fees and exchange differences) for cash withdrawals and amex traveler check fees for cashing checks in Argentina? I asked my bank today about the atm withdrawals. They were clueless about the fees and they said that I would get a very bad exchange rate. Tia
travelers checks are the worst method of spending. yes, bring them for emergency if you must (vs. extra cash and extra atm/cc cards), but don't plan to use them. unless you want to spend more for ar$ cash. you'll get hit a fee and/or a poor fx rate, most any location of exchange.
atm is the best (debit cards, not cc cards). call your bank before you go, make sure you are set up, and minimize your fees (if possible, like move some money into the account temporarily to get a higher grade status, etc.). you'll get the best fx rate (wholesale) and the losest fee (%-wise).
using a cc card in an atm will cost you (interest, and higher fees). thus, this is not the way to go (barring emergency).
changing cash (us$ > ar$) at any fx-stand will be a middle ground (cost-wise), and can be equal to the atm method in cost in some circumstances (like fx at a restaurant or store, but not at bank or kiosk).
using your cc card for point of sales is an option, but all visa/mc carry a 1% fee. numerous banks (citi does - 2%, mbna doesn't) add their own additional fee of up to 2% more. thus, call your cc card company and determine their fees, and of course let them know your dates of stay so they won't panic when they see charges. same is true for your bank/debit card co.
DCRAIN. I agree with most of Leo's post, with a single exception....Amex Traveler's checks are easy to exchange with no commission at the Amex office on Plaza San Martin, Arenales Ave.
FYI...I use a Bank of America debit card without problems at Banco Francia ATMs.
...Most of my money is in cash. USD's at Cambios usually have a better rate of exchange than the "official" rate of exchange....
Enjoy BA....
Cash is always king in most destinations. I always bring enough cash to last me through my trip. I opened a US bank account at Bank of America for one of my amigas that lives in BA. I have online access so I can see when she pulls out money. It's surprising but B of A has never charged me an ATM fee. For that matter, either has the bank of the ATM owner. Amazing.
I will probably utilize ATM's more since they don't seem to be a problem. A few times my amiga has told me of places that seem to be "out of money". She has never had any problems at the Citibank ATM in Recoleta near the Alvear Palace hotel.
Interesting article on my favorite city. A friend that lives in BA sent it to me. VERY interesting article. After you read it you'll realize why so many girls (and people in general) are flocking out of Argentina. Yeah, it's great for Americans with dollars to spend freely but always keep what's going on in the back of your mind. Good luck.
Argentina May Be Down But I Don't Plan to Get Out
By Santiago O'Donnell
BUENOS AIRES
Even at its worst, this is a beautiful city. It has wide avenues, European-style six-story buildings with wrought-iron balconies, plazas with statues, manicured parks. But these days Buenos Aires stinks. Every neighborhood, no matter how elegant, is littered with reeking garbage, and this is not because the garbage men aren't trying to do their jobs. It's because every night at about 10, more than 100,000 scavengers pour in from the nearby shantytowns. Hurrying to beat the trash trucks that begin their routes at midnight, they rip open and rummage through the bulging plastic bags that have been put out on the sidewalks.
Entire families come, working like military units: the mother at point, sending four or five children in different directions, the father bringing up the rear, pushing a shopping cart holding a baby or two and whatever scraps the kids collect. They rip the bags and scatter the contents because they have to work fast. These days, two or three pairs of hands go through each bag before the garbage truck arrives. Many of the scavengers look as if they once belonged to the middle class: the mother in a flowered dress, the children in Adidas sweats. But their eyes are the eyes of the hopeless poor.
In Buenos Aires, 10 p.m. to midnight isn't late -- it's dinnertime, and for most of the rest of us life is going on at its usual chaotic pace. Traffic is thick, steaks are sizzling, and espressos are steaming. People like me are buying chicken ravioli at the neighborhood rotisserie, or waiting for the bus, or running for a train or a subway.
The army of scavengers descends before our very eyes, and we don't say a word . When the desperate families hurry by, we turn away. "Don't look at me, don't talk to me. I won't expect any help from you, and you won't get mugged," is the unspoken message to those who still have trash to put out from those who need it to survive.
That's how it is, eight months after our government went through five presidents in a week, defaulted on $140 billion international debt and devalued the savings accounts of 7 million Argentines to less than a third of their worth. That's how we deal with scavenger families, the new symbol of bankrupt, lawless, cynical Argentina: We look away and make them disappear.
Twenty years ago, when I finished high school, Argentina was a nation haunted by the ghosts of others who had vanished. These were the desaparecidos, the tens of thousands of citizens who were kidnapped and murdered by right-wing and military death squads between 1973 and 1982. Some were shot. Many were thrown alive from airplanes into the ocean. Few people talked about "the disappeared" during the blood-soaked years of the dictatorship for fear of becoming one of them. Some of the mothers of missing persons staged a silent march of protest every Thursday, but hardly anyone seemed to notice.
I felt I had wasted my youth living under fascists who outlawed street gatherings of more than three people, who thought editing a school newspaper was a "subversive" activity, who banned Donald Duck from newsstands because his relationship with Daisy and his nephews wasn't altogether "proper" or "clear." Then, as a graduation present, the Class of 1982 was awarded the lead role in a senseless, bloody and deeply humiliating war over the Falkland Islands. I was doing my mandatory military service in the Argentine Coast Guard. Luckily I didn't get sent to the front, where elite British forces equipped with state-of-the-art NATO technology overwhelmed draftees like myself armed with World War II-era rifles. I saw friends and neighbors come back in wooden caskets.
When the war ended, I couldn't wait to get out of spooky, hateful Argentina. In September 1982, I came to the United States, and I stayed for 12 years. I went to the University of California at Berkeley and to Notre Dame and the University of Southern California, then went to work as a news reporter, first for the Los Angeles Times and later for The Washington Post. I had friends and a 401(k). When I moved to Washington, I rented a nice townhouse on Euclid Street in Adams Morgan and played soccer every Sunday at a public park on Chesapeake Street, where we used trash cans as goal posts. The players included Argentine immigrants from all walks of life: chauffeurs, World Bank economists, gym teachers, even, for a game or two, the ambassador.
After years of weekend basketball in California and softball in Indiana, those soccer games brought back powerful feelings of home. When a family crisis took me back to Buenos Aires, I found myself overwhelmed by the desire to stay. The ghosts of my past had pretty much been laid to rest: The generals were in jail, and the mothers of the disappeared had become national heroes. I wanted to go home, to my streets and my people and my family, to write in my own language about my own country's joys and its problems.
And there were problems, though they were masked by a false sense of prosperity. In 1994, the world economy was booming, "emerging markets" were trendy, the Argentine middle class had access to credit for the first time in decades and was off on a shopping spree, buying refrigerators with credit cards, new cars with personal loans and new homes with 10- or 15-year mortgages.
I went back with my eyes open, though. From the States, it had been easy to see that Argentina was still a foreign-debt junkie with bloated budgets and closed factories, a country crippled by rampant corruption that imported everything and produced almost nothing. The government had only two ways to keep afloat -- international loans and the sale of state-owned resources. The nation's oil reserves and telephone networks and prime real estate and airline routes were all privatized at fire-sale prices -- and once gone, they couldn't be sold again. Meanwhile, the flood of imported products swamped regional economies, blue-collar unemployment soared and shantytowns grew like fungus around the big cities.
But it was home. And we Argentines are sort of used to catastrophes. At least the death squads weren't running loose and the generals weren't planning any new wars. With a glad heart, I moved back, married my high school sweetheart, got a job at a local newspaper, took out a 10-year mortgage and moved into a six-story apartment building with a black marble facade in San Telmo, the oldest neighborhood of Buenos Aires.
In America, people lose track of each other: They're born in Chicago but move to L.A., they move in and out of Washington every three or four years. In Argentina, it's not like that. When I returned, most of the friends I grew up with were still there, meeting for pickup soccer games on the same Astroturf field we had used 20 years before.
We still play there every Sunday. But lately the lives of my soccer buddies have changed. Coyote, the architect, has been unemployed for seven months now. Lucious, the chef, closed his trendy restaurant last November and now works as kitchen supervisor in a pizza chain. Pat, who owns a printing shop, is seriously considering opening a hot dog stand. Matt, the artist, moved to Chile. Nestor, who's in PR, is going to Spain next month to try his luck. Teddy, the corporate lawyer, has worked for a failed insurance company, a failed bank and a failed energy company and recently spent almost a year in the ranks of the unemployed. Rafi, the car salesman, is hoping to keep his job by making friends with his boss's son.
Everyone agrees: It's never been so bad. The recession is well into its fifth year and showing no signs of slowing down. More than half of the population has sunk below the poverty level; one out of five is unemployed , more than triple the rate of 10 years back. People who had saved money lost it when the government, trying to bail out the country's troubled banks last December, froze all savings accounts for three to seven years and converted any dollar accounts (which was almost all of them) into pesos. The peso had been worth a dollar; it was 70 cents when the accounts were converted; today it's worth less than 30, and with inflation at 60 percent and rising, lifetime savings will be worth peanuts before their owners can touch their money.
Inflation is back, like in the 1980s but with an evil new twist -- today, salaries don't even try to compete with prices. At the end of the month, each paycheck is worth less than the one before, and you cut something else out of the family budget: garage parking, orange juice for breakfast, cable TV.
You take your paycheck out of the bank the day it goes in, because of course you don't trust the bank. You pay your mortgage in cash. Everybody keeps cash in the house, which has led to the latest crime trend: "express kidnappings." Early in the current crisis, people began to be stopped at gunpoint, taken to the nearest automated teller machine, forced to withdraw their limit and then let go. But now that the banks have no money, the express kidnappers pick people up, call their relatives and order them to pay, say, $200. If things go well, the victim can be free in a few hours.
This in a city that not all that long ago was one of the safest in the world.
Politicians and bankrupt businessmen grow beards and avoid the street because they are terrified of being recognized and showered with rotten eggs, which is the preferred form of heckling these days. Some who dare to go out without enough bodyguards have been publicly beaten.
After the Sunday soccer games, my friends and I talk -- about our families, the kidnappings, whatever's in the news. In lowered voices, we talk about who is out of work, who is in trouble. We all worry about our jobs. Many of us think we're kept on only because of a law passed last year that says anybody who's fired during this "social emergency" gets double severance. But that law expires this fall -- and besides, the laws in this country don't mean much anymore. It was three weeks after Congress passed a law guaranteeing the safety of bank deposits that those deposits were frozen and devalued.
"What are you still doing here?" my friends ask sometimes. "Don't you ever think of going back to the States?"
It's not a bad question. In a country that once welcomed millions of immigrants (including my Irish forebears a century ago), thousands of Argentines are lining up in front of foreign embassies in search of a way out. Daily flights to Madrid and Rome leave jampacked and return empty. Even the smallest towns in the most remote parts of New Zealand, Canada, Australia and South Africa are coveted destinations. Violence-torn Israel welcomed 20,000 Argentines in the past 12 months.
Teary-eyed emigrants wait in departure lines at Ezeiza Airport here, wrapped in Argentine flags. They're sad, but they're desperate. "I can't live here anymore!" they say. "I want out!"
I know the feeling. But this time I don't want to disappear.
I could get in trouble down here for saying this, but I have to admit I like it when U.S. Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill hits Argentines with one-liners like, "It's no use sending money down there if it's going to end up in a Swiss bank account." There were certainly things I didn't like about the States, but I miss American-style straight talk.
I get angry at many things here -- the fact that good "connections" are more important than merit, the way we've gotten used to cheating and cutting corners in everything from taxes to theater lines, how we allow ourselves to be governed by the same politicians who tell the same old lies, over and over again. It's sad to see what we've managed to do to a vast, resource-rich country.
I worry that I can't leave my 4-year-old son, Jos?, the promise of a better future than my parents gave me. There are no quick fixes for this economic disaster, I think; it will be another generation before Argentina can recover. Yet, for all the complicated reasons that human beings cherish their homes, I love this country. I have no regrets about coming back. If I'm hopeful that we may be on the verge of a long, painful rebuilding process, maybe it's just because every night more people are eating trash, and it's getting harder to look away. They won't disappear.
Santiago O'Donnell is an investigative reporter for the Argentine newspaper La Nacion
Anyone down there willing to do a quick check on prices for duty free kind of merchandise ? For my next trip I wanted to buy some gifts (liquor, perfume) at the MIA airport but perhaps prices will be lower locally, or maybe not, as these are always import goods ?
Just post a couple of examples of what you pay in BsAs eg jonny walker 75 ml, chanel N.5 small bottle, so travellers can figure where is convenient to buy.
Another question, anyone using a personal sp/en translator, if so which model, what you like/dislike of it? There are some reviews on amazon but certainly the opinion of our distinguished fellows here counts too !
JustGotBack
11-21-02, 12:03
I´d wait until you got to BA. The prices are much lower here even compared to the prices at the EZE airport duty free. Well for most things at least, electronics are more expensive then in the US.
duty free is a rip off scam for u.s. citizens wanting goods for u.s. consumption. go to costco/sams for big savings. go to another store (tget/wmart) or department store for other brands.
duty free is only a deal when going into a country where your needed goods are heavily taxed.
Use your brains guys. I just got done talking to one of the chicas from the boliches (clubs). She was telling me how some dude she met from the club just proposed to her. She was telling me how her ultimate plan is to marry him, move to the USA then divorce him after a short time. She was asking me questions like how much she is able to get in a divorce settlement, etc. She admitted she has no feelings for this dude and only cared about his money. I told her this was a very bad idea.
Hey guys. I have nothing against falling in love but use your common sense before making any life altering decisions. If you guys could read some of the emails and IM's I get from some of these girls it would make your head spin. I've become a good friend with some of these club girls. It's amazing the level of stupidity I hear on a daily basis.
Common sense always prevails.
Guys:
Many people in Argentina think erroneously that most Americans are stupid while Argentinians are wise, so it would be easy and fast to strip their money from them. Hopefully, this is absolutely wrong. Add to that many Argentinans are desperate to seize an opportunity to make money (opportunities that won't abound in the near future in Argentina) and then you get these scams looking for a naive tourist.
My advise to the forum members is: DON'T LOSE THE FOCUS OF YOUR ADVENTURE. As an Argentinian living in the US for a while, I can guarantee that the vast majority of Argetinians cannot integrate to the American society (I saw this every month when Argentinians meet for university activities), so what's the use to bring a girl up North? They miss tremendously their families, the good food, soccer and the night life.
As much brutal as it sounds, girls are in the business for money and who knows what is in their heads. Just enjoy the visit, have nice "close encounters" and continue with your lifes at least for a while. Time will say if a girl you met deserves more than a service relationship. Don't take relationships decisions so light.
Hope it helps.
Andres
JamesBond69
11-21-02, 21:22
Originally posted by saint
Use your brains guys. .
I wouldn't worry about this. Of the mongers I met down here I can't imagine anyone falling for the chicas down here long term.
At the risk of sounding cynical the working girls are like little children encased in the bodies of beautiful women, with childish fantasies of North America and a DESPERATE need to get off the Argentine ship before it sinks even further. First world working women wouldn't offer you GFE, they are far more worldly than that.
I love being with them short term and most are sincerely affectionate but part of the contract is that if I ask them to go with me I can ask them to leave afterwards; so far none of them are capable of entertaining the part of my anatomy above my neck, only below, and that they do exceedingly well.
It's a bit perverse what is really going on down here emotionally but I'm certainly enjoying it for what it is.
As for bringing them to the States Andrej is dead on. The States can only afford them less anxiety about money and for most of them, not even that. Here they have families, great company, great food when you can afford it, the particular and very rich culture., etc. There is no place like home and Argentina is a great place to live except for this terrible economic situation.
that guy had it wrong. the going rate for marrying an argentinian woman is $7-8k here in miami. that is, argentinian women here that face visa expiration are willing to pay $7-8k to the man for marriage to stay. i hear columbianitas will pay $10k. it requires 2 yrs tho...
leo, is 10k the highest? and how would one get in contact with these women? shit, the chance for a hottie columbian to marry me and pay me for it, while people are paying marriage services?Where can I meet them in South Florida?
JamesBond69
11-21-02, 22:40
Originally posted by Vampyr
leo, is 10k the highest? and how would one get in contact with these women? shit, the chance for a hottie columbian to marry me and pay me for it, while people are paying marriage services?Where can I meet them in South Florida?
I think the Colombians that have to pay to get married are more coolies than hotties. But you can always dream you are married to Penelope Cruz when waking up each day next to Rosie O'Donald.
Gentlemen,
I must add that if anyone is considering marrying for money (for both “hotties” and coolies”) it would be worth investing a few u$a in a prenuptial contract. Otherwise, after the money changes hands and the ring is on the finger so to speak, you may find half your assets are also in danger of changing hands… I recall Saint mentioning that “nothing was for free…”: how right he is.
Although I wouldn’t endorse it, this seems to lead very nicely to a small business potential LOL. Having said that, its worth remembering that a worthwhile marriage is built on love and trust and not a business deal.
Why get married anyway when you can live a substantially more enjoyable life in complete freedom…
Regards,
Havanaman
i guess i see both hotties and non-hotties. but i'm not recommending it. i mean, you could make $7-10k once a 2-yr period (girls must remain married or lose privaledges i'm told). but it's a huge hassel - you have to live together for some of the time, have pictures of trips, wedding, etc to provide at ins interview, and a whole bunch of other stuff - that you'd consider crap if you didn't really have a relationship with the girl. and i doubt most of the girls are finding 'husbands' that they are willing to get it on with, given that they're paying big money in their opinion...
i was just joining in on the chiding of the monger that talked marriage - saying he should get some money vs. the other way around...
I didn't mean to start a big discussion on this topic. Only wanted to tell guys to keep their wits amongst them. Also, I think it's a bad idea to marry a girl in this type of arrangement. It's also ILLEGAL. Why risk the hassles especially in this day and age of severe scutiny of non-US citizens. Like I said...use your brains guys.
JustGotBack
11-22-02, 16:49
Stoly, I was walking by a store today and noticed Johnny Walker was 70 pesos, 20 dollars. Is that good? I hope this helps.
Justgotback,
Thank you for some excellent information. Could you please find out the “opening hours” of 2254 French street (4825-9168 / 9370). Specifically “last orders”. I’m arriving quite late, mid December and want to get some action here on the first night. Much appreciated.
Regards,
Havanaman
JustGotBack
11-23-02, 02:24
How late is quite late. You can get a girl at one of the clubs until 3 or 4 in the morning.
Buenos Aires made easy....
Arrive at EZE and take a Remis (private car) from the airport...there are several booths as you exit customs. price $US13.
Stay at Howard Johnsons Plaza, on Florida the pedestrian mall, just steps from Marcelo T. Alvear (Marcelo T.) to locals.....US$60 per night, king room, including tax.
Exchange money at Metropolis. AS you exit Howard Johnsons, turn right. Go to the first intersection. Turn right on Paraguay. Metropolis is less than a half block away on your right.
Buy Viagra. AS you leave Metropolis retrace your steps. At the intersection of Paraguay and Florida there is a pharmacy, Globus. Ask the pharmacist for Viagra. 4 100mg tabs with the Phizer label will cost you 77.50 pesos, or about 5.50dollars per tab.
hungry? turn to the left as you exit the pharmacy (heading away from Floirida)...walk a couple of blocks until you see San Martin...there are restaurants on 3 of the corners. El Establo is an excellent restaurant for steak. Abot 25 pesos. Pizza and pasta are the specialties in Ce Bleu...here you have the added attraction of possibly spotting a working girl if it is the evening...look for the cell phones on the table....if you smile and she smiles back...bingo..About 10 pesos, for the food not the chica. .The other restaurant is fast food and take out...quite good, but I do not recall the name....5 to 10 pesos
Ready for some action? Two choices present themselves....go down San Martin to Cordoba, only block or so and you will find Cafe Orleans...or...continue another block down Paraguay heading away from your hotel on Florida...turn right on Reconquista. Ignore the taught in front of Ladies and check out Cutty Sark, which is a very hit or miss club....Ladies is more miss than hit and many of the better looking chicas will drink with you, but will not leave with you...so you buy them expensive drinks for the privilege of their company in the club...not my idea of a good time....drinks in Cutty....50 pesos for you and a chica to share a drink, essential before she is allowed to leave. Her price will be 100 to 200pesos....or 200 to 350 for all night. Drinks are less in Orleans but the chicas will ask for more pesos originally....do not overpay...
After a nap....head out again in the evening about 11. retrace your steps from the hotel to the money exchange,,,,but keep on going a couple of blocks until you arrive a Suipacha...turn left...4 clubs are found in the 900 block....Hook has been the best lately, but things change very fast in BA....and all of the clubs have diamonds in the midst of lumps of coal....about 100 to 150 pesos, double for all night.
Repeat as often as necessary.
ah, the good life...
justgotback,
I’ll be free and wondering BA from about 3am, so as you say the clubs scene is still available, however, after a long haul flight I’m keener on French street first. Failing this one of the net chicas… If you can find out the “closing time” I would be most grateful.
Regards,
Havanaman
JustGotBack
11-23-02, 17:53
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ezy
[i]Buenos Aires made easy....
Arrive at EZE and take a Remis (private car) from the airport...there are several booths as you exit customs. price $US13.
Excellent post Ezy. If you are staying downtown you can also just take the bus run by Manuel something Leon. It drops you off close to the hotels there. You can either walk or just take a taxi to your hotel. $3 for the bus and 2 pesos for the taxi. It´ll save you $9, that´ll cover the entrance fee to a Recoleta club.
JustGotBack
11-24-02, 00:08
Havannaman, sorry I don´t think I can help you. I´ve never been to French street before. I don´t even know where on French steet it is. From the forum, I don´t think you can just walk in. You have to make an appointment. Just call and try to make an appointment for 3 and see if it works.
Flash poll: In case another blackout strikes, where would you whish to be when it happens ?
a) Seated al fresco at a parrilla, no problem - meats are cooked over woodfire.
b) In the hotel elevator, going to my room with a chica.
c) Outside Argentina - I hate blackouts !
Havanaman,
French St is a great place, but if my memory serves me correctly, the last appointment is at 10 PM. I was there two weeks ago, and the girl I was with told me she leaves at 7 PM. You can get an appointment as early as may be 2 PM. But the whole crew shows up by 5 PM. Best time to go there is 6 PM. I believe, it may be closed on Sundays, although I am not exactly sure. It is exactly 12 minutes walk from Etoile. Nice little arrangement. Mirium is very cordial and runs a great enterprise very efficiently.
Bandy
Bandy,
Nice information: very useful. Thanks for taking the trouble to help. It would seem that day-1 for me will start with an internet adventure… I really don’t fancy going to a club after a long haul. Thanks again.
Regards,
Havanaman
Havanaman,
No offense but don't worry so much. You're trying to overplan your trip. Just get there and things will fall into place. Odds are that you will do something entirely different than what you planned in the first place.
You'll have fun. Trust me.
Also, this is the last time I'm gonna post warning guys about being foolish with some of these girls. I think if some of you are stupid enough (yeah, I know that sounds harsh but it's the truth) to believe some of the things that come out of these girls mouths than you deserve to get scammed.
I just heard of another guy that just gave a girl from one of the clubs $20,000 US to pay off her mortgage on her house. This dude was from Florida. Hey, if you have the money and don't care it's all fine and dandy but he was giving it on the condition that she NOT work anymore. Needless to say that she is still working and has NO plans on stopping.
Like I said. Last time I will mention this but please don't get caught up in the lies and games. I talk to a few of these girls every single day and I've become good friends. Like I said, most of what they tell you is a lie and it's probably better this way. I'm really careful not to get emotionally involved in all this stuff. Better to just stay friends. Be careful out there.
Saint,
No offence taken. You are right about the over planning. Its an old habit and a difficult one to control. Its fuelled by the excitement of new discoveries. Your posts and indeed those of the regular contributors have really got me enthusiastic about BA. Everything will fall into place as you have said and that’s all that counts. See you in BA, I’ll leave a message at the Art Suits reception…
Gentlemen,
(or should I say very luck gentlemen!) I’m going to miss the “1st Annual WSG Thanksgiving Dinner” by a few days! Maybe next year… have a wonderful time. Jackson, you the man! Much respect.
Regards,
Havanaman
StudPlayer
11-29-02, 21:26
Could you guys discuss the possibilities/probabilities of meeting just regular non-working girls in BsAs while you are out and about doing normal errands? For instance, in Angeles City, Philippines, when you go out anywhere (not the bars) there is about an 80% chance you are going to be coming back home with a new friend and you will have had the choice of several different ones. Does stuff like this happen in Bs As?
Studplayer:
Perhaps the girls' attitudes changed during this year, but it's very unlikely that a girl will follow you to the States: Language and cultural barriers (specially distance from family) make it difficult. We altinos have a strong tie with our families.
You can meet girls everywhere. Discos, raves, music performance shows, etc. You name it. It may be difficult to fine one of them speaking good English, but not impossible.
Hope this helps,
Andres
StudPlayer
11-29-02, 23:15
andresg... gracias por su informacion... thanks for your information.. as for bringing any girl to the states or taking her out of her country, no thanks... i am no fool .... and as for speaking espanol, yo hablo....
so, it sounds as if the ladies are receptive to chance encounters for lunch and then whatever happens afterwards happens... how refreshing to hear because here in los angeles (and i believe in the states in general) the ladies won't even make eye contact and if they should accidentally they immediately avert their eyes and act as if you don't exist ..... you go out here in los angeles and all you see in the clubs are a bunch of guys and just a few girls.... and the girls seem weary of guys hitting on them.... the states is/are so screwed up...
is argentina similar to brazil where the female/male ratio is like 8/1?
Studplayer:
People in Argentina are not that paranoid yet. Girls will approach you provided that you seem "apprachable".
The ratio is not as good as in Brazil but it't still better than in the US.
Andres
Originally posted by Studplayer
Could you guys discuss the possibilities/probabilities of meeting just regular non-working girls in BsAs while you are out and about doing normal errands? For instance, in Angeles City, Philippines, when you go out anywhere (not the bars) there is about an 80% chance you are going to be coming back home with a new friend and you will have had the choice of several different ones. Does stuff like this happen in Bs As?
Studplayer,
With a non-pro, plan on at least two or three dates before she will sleep with you. There are always excetions, but with a non-pro, that is the norm.
Moondog
studplayer,
i go to b.a. for the non-pro as much as the pro action myself...
if you aren't too ugly or overweight, and the right age, you'll have no problem meeting regular girls as you do the town during the day (shopping, errands, sights, eating, etc). and no problem getting dates for later during you're trip. now getting to sex with the girl on date 1 vs. date 3, i'd say it's much like the u.s., where as in brasil you'd have a better chance at sex earlier in your 'relationship'.
Guys:
If you need an Internet mapping of Buenos Aires in order to find driving directions or where a boliche is located, visit
http://www.cybermapas.com/
It may help you find boliches far from Recoleta and Downtown. It also has maps of other Argentine cities.
Hope this helps,
Andres
staticicon
12-08-02, 15:26
Nibu,
I can recommend you my favorite gotic club:
Requiem: is located near where you are now.
Av. de Mayo 948 (between Bernardo de Irygoyen and Suipacha)
4331-5870
http://www.requiemgothic.com
Opens of Fridays and Saturdays.
Clarin girls are really a hit or miss, but always cheap. It is very important to speak some spanish.
I am thinking of doing something that I would like to have some feedback on.
I am thinking of fling a girl from Buenos Aires to the Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico for a week.
Here is some info to chew on. I have never been to BA but have read about it a lot, I will make it some day but not in the near future. Therefor I would be making a selection off the Internet, which we all know is very risky. I have been to Cozumel and Cancun and know it is expensive and the girls are not close to the quality of the West Coast or Argentina. I have never flown a girl anywhere, not even ones I have been with. I do not speak much Spanish but am tiring to work on it.
I still have many questions to answer including what it would cost and if I could find one that speaks English good enough to hold a conversation.
Looking forward to reading the posts that follow this. I will be grateful for all comments positive or negative.
International Living readers voted Argentina women as the most beautiful in the world. We all agree, but which guys from here voted?
MiddleAgeGuy
12-16-02, 21:53
[QUOTE]Originally posted by wcp
I am thinking of doing something that I would like to have some feedback on.
I am thinking of fling a girl from Buenos Aires to the Yucatan Peninsula, Mexico for a week.
Here is some info to chew on. I have never been to BA but have read about it a lot, I will make it some day but not in the near future. Therefor I would be making a selection off the Internet, which we all know is very risky. I have been to Cozumel and Cancun and know it is expensive and the girls are not close to the quality of the West Coast or Argentina. I have never flown a girl anywhere, not even ones I have been with. I do not speak much Spanish but am tiring to work on it.
I still have many questions to answer including what it would cost and if I could find one that speaks English good enough to hold a conversation.
Looking forward to reading the posts that follow this. I will be grateful for all comments positive or negative.
Sorry about that last post, I am not message board savy. wcp, suggest you look at escorts-argentina.com site. It provides pictures and prices for many under Profile, (should be pesos, around 1200 - 2000/week) for going out of country, etc. Suggest a selection who speaks english, phone the # to make sure it is the level of english you need. Some have email so you can get the details by emailing also. Met someone once in BA who went to Europe for a week. The girl enjoyed herself. I know this limits your selection, (English/ one limited Site) but once you have corresponded with a few girls, you should get the hang of mutual expectations. Branch out to others once you know the ropes. I am sure many would jump at the chance for a mini-holiday away from BA as long as it does not cut into their earning power too much. Good luck. ]
Nibu Raphael
12-17-02, 01:46
Stat. Yeh I know Now Where Requiem is My Budy Did Check it out thurday. Shit Man Thursday it is 1 peso to get in but Weekends 6 pesos. The Gothic club by the hotel Constitucion on San Juan 818 was called Kreuz Hall but It Kind of Sucks. Hey Yeh KH Is on Chacabuco and like 5 or 6 blocks from there going to the microcentro is a Gentlemans club called Tributo Me and My Friend Juan never went in because they wanted 25 pesos to get in. TO DC Nah Argentenian girls are not that hot like girls from Peru Or in Mexico but they make up for it in there sophisticated Clotes and kinkiness. I would say Argentenian girls are the most kinkiest in Latin America Where es Braziain girls Are very Kind Sex Machines. Yeh DC To Me Argentinia Is A Great Place To Visit But Peru Totally rules over Argentina any day. Hey Havanaman Sorry we did not hook up. TRy To Visit me in Lima Peru Someday I will show you all in LIma. FB Hey Sorry too We Did Not hook up. FB I think the swingers club on Artigas St. was called the new Star Or New Star Swingers club. The Lady said ywo rooms for couples existed and one I think is an Orgy Room. There is two Swingers magazines you can pick up in Centro BA that has all this info. I think one is Called Enteres Swingers or something similiar to that. Anyways They are easy to pick up these sex contact zines on LaVALLE AND Florida Aves........ NIBU R......
middleageguy and wcp....a couple of things you should know about escorts-argentina chicas and pricing
1. Prices are maximum prices..almost always negotiable lower
2. Prices are in dollars not pesos....which makes the prices very high by BA standards. see point one.....
After January 1, 2003, when calling a mobile number in BA from the U.S., you will have to add a 9 after the country code. So it will be 54-9-11-xxxx-xxxx.
Moondog
Pimsleur courses.
I have 3 pimsleur courses for sale if anyone is interested. I was going to sell them on ebay, but I will see if there is any interest here first.
Pimsleur Instant Conversation (cassettes) - Spanish This course is essentially the first 1/2 of Spanish I. A good option for the uncommitted who want to try out Spanish before spending a lot of money. An identical used set is selling right now on ebay for $26. I will sell this unused set for $23. I did cut the upc symbol off of the box for some reason, but my friend never picked up the set.
Pimsleur Spanish Level I (cassettes) - I purchased this set new this summer and will sell them for $130.
Pimsleur Spanish Level II (CD'S) - I purchased this set from the original owner (so he said) this summer on ebay. I also have the Level II phrase cards that will be included. They come in handy if you don't have a good ear for foreign languages. I will sell this course and phrase cards for $200.
Buyer will pay any shipping, handling and insurance if desired. These are original sets, not knock-off copies.
Cassettes vs. CD's. I tried both and didn't have a real preference. With the cassettes it was easier for me to back up and listen to a part again. With the cd's, you can see exactly how long a lesson is. CD's are more expensive.
You can make me an offer on the first 2, but since I am considering redoing the Level II course, I will hold firm to the price on it.
Any interested party can contact me at dcrain99@yahoo.com.
If you want to price compare, go to ebay, they always have some of these for sale.
MRLA
Great to hear that I am not alone in BA during those days. Unfortunately, I do not speak Spanish at all, but I am learning as fast as time allows. It has been mentioned before that we might hire the services of a guide for a few evenings to help explain the rules of the game. I will let you know more the first of the year about my lodging arrangements. It sounds like BA is not only a great city for chicas but for the general experience as well.
Saint - Thanks for the tip on the Library, I will give this a try this weekend and see how it goes.
Ibiza
To those sending me emails, my Pimsleur courses are gone. I did not make any copies, so I don't have any more.
For those wanting the actual (used) Pimsleur courses, I would suggest Ebay.
For those wanting the cheapest version, someone posted regarding MP3 versions, maybe they can repost the information. When I was looking for used copies of Pimsleur this summer, I ran across a used book/tapes site. Someone posting at that site offered to sell me MP3 versions of the Pimsleur courses for $50 each.
Guys,mongers,
Today the Economist made known a presentation of the Worldcities and their costs to live in.
Guess what???
BA fell from place 20 (last year) to plave 130 THIS year!!!That is in total 134 cities were investigated!!!
Harare (Zimbabwe) was the cheapest of all.
Amsterdam became more pricey as the landed on place 20. (last year place 40)
Europe's most expensive city will be OSLO. (place 3)
Guess Argentina will be for some time a pretty cheap place to live in and to monger.
Thinking of doing a tour of Argentina/Paraguay myself in september/october this year.
Johan.
Don Johnson
01-16-03, 21:53
Originally posted by johan007Guys,mongers,
Today the Economist made known a presentation of the Worldcities and their costs to live in.
Johan.Is it the Big Mac index? (don't remember if it is the Economist who make that index)
It might sound bogus, but since Big Macs are made by domestic produce and it is exactly the same everywhere in the world, it is actually a great way of comparing prices/purchasing power in each country.
Anyway, I live in Oslo, Norway, so going to BA is just about the most optimal place on earth for me money wise - and for a few other reasons :)
JackDaniels
01-18-03, 12:17
I am considering buying an apartment in BsAs in the Recolleta area, initally as an investment but to live in it myself later on. Can anyone advise on how to go about this, web sites of real estate agents, rental income on an apartment and indeed the advisability of making such an investment.
Recoletta appears to be the best location for mongering and general holiday making in this great city.
I think that BsAs is a great place to live with stunning women everywhere and very friendly people. After my recent visit, BsAs has shot up my list of favourite cities of the world.
Don Johnson
01-18-03, 18:40
For Pimsleur Spanish lessons on mp3, search on any p2p programme.
I found complete lessons (Spanish I, II and III) on Kazaa. (I obviously didn't download it, that would be illegal. I only tell you this for educational purposes...)
They might be hard to find, so search several times (the guys with the lessons might not be online). Search word "Pimsleur"
To the BA scholars,
What is the situation on renting mobile phones or buying pre-paid mobile phones? It is fairly easy to do? And what is the expected range on prices.
Thanks,
Prufrock
LA Larry,
Can you e-mail me at tooshman@hotmail.com? I will be going to Bangkok next week and I have some guestions for you.
Regards,
Toosh
astroglide
01-22-03, 17:26
Hey Beppe,
I have the Pimsleur 90-lessons of 30-minutes each but I do not have the three workbooks. I would like to get the workbooks. Do you know of anyone that has or do you have the workbooks? Also are the 90 lessons the total comprehensive course?
I would aprreciate any info on this subject.
Pura Vida
astroglide
Originally posted by Beppe
(I obviously didn't download it, that would be illegal. I only tell you this for educational purposes...)
It is not illegal, you are just helping someone back up their legally obtained files. Nothing wrong with that!
jackdaniels......blackjack n coke is available in BsAs...yum.
Here is a real estate super site to get you started:
http://www.arqweb.com/buscarcasaen/index.asp?Canal=Argentina
lots of links. I like buscainmuebles....it will let you do an advanced search, screening for things such as location, number of rooms, security, etc.
the classifieds of clarin and lanacion are also helpful, especially on Saturday.
There are a number of real estate agencies with web sites
Here a a couple to get you started:
http://www.guichon.com.ar/HomeNoflash.asp
http://www.cm-risso.com.ar/
http://www.lacrozepropiedades.com/
I would say there are risks in the market right now, since Argentina is by no means out of the woods economically. On the other hand, I have lost my ass on solid stock market picks like Home Depot and AOL, so who knows..........maybe Argentina real estate is the way to go!
JackDaniels
01-22-03, 20:22
Ezy
Thank you for your tips and I will have a look at them and do some research.
Cheers.
Don Johnson
01-22-03, 23:19
Originally posted by astroglide
Hey Beppe,
I have the Pimsleur 90-lessons of 30-minutes each but I do not have the three workbooks. I would like to get the workbooks. Do you know of anyone that has or do you have the workbooks? Also are the 90 lessons the total comprehensive course?
I would aprreciate any info on this subject.
Pura Vida
astroglide I haven't seen Spanish IV anywhere, so I think it's a total of 90 lessons.
I haven't looked for workbooks, but I am sure you will find them on the net/a peer-to-peer programme aswell.
If you give me an e-mail address, I could e-mail you if I can find it. (I take no responsibility for the virus hazard etc)
Peter, of course, how could I forget :)
This question is for the economists out there. I am planning a trip to B.A. in Mid April for about a month. Since the peso seems to be strengthening against the dollar, would it be wise to exchange for pesos now? If so, do I just head down to the local bank or is it a little more involved? What's likely to happen to the peso when the elections occur in April?
Thanks!
Nibu Raphael
01-23-03, 02:27
Dude yeh Try Northern Argentina for us. I think Salta and Cordoba you will love also look in to Santa Fe and Rosario for us Later,,, NIBU.
Yes, Zimbabwe is very cheap and the women all have huge tits. So please go there and NEVER return. Jackson should ban you.
High on Hobbyin
01-24-03, 05:01
Judd
I remember Chase advertising some sort of money exchange service in the US. You might want to check their website if you're still interested in hedging your mongering investment.
Just a follow up note to let any interested party know that the internet company offering the Pimsleur Comprehensive I (30 lessons) at $189 delivered promptly. Am applying for the rebate, but probably won't get it until I'm in BA. For those who might be wondering what I'm yammering about see below.
Previously post by me:
Pimsleur language courses have a $150 rebate available if you purchase a Comprehensive Level I course and an Instant Conversation course. They need not be the same language.
I've seen it advertised on several sites. The least expensive I've found $189 (CD) + $38 (CD) + Tx + S&H = $252 - $150 (mail in rebate) = $102 net cost. The Tapes would cost $77 net.
I've just ordered both the Brazilian Portugues and Spanish. Will advise if all arrives as ordered as I have never dealt with these folks before. I did call the 800 # for Simon & Schuster to inquire about the rebate and learned that Speak Any Language is one of their distributors. Speak Any Language can be found at http://store.yahoo.com/ronsrls/info.html
Thanks HOH and EZE for the insight with regards to my currency
question. I will hold off on buying pesos.
EZE_Amante
01-24-03, 23:24
btw, did you see the peso value today? It jumped from 3.11 to 3.21. Look for some frequent fluctuations over the next few months, so it is going to be hit and miss as far as when to buy, but we shouldn't see anything resembling the first quarter of last year. It will probably take years for the economy in Argentina to fully recover, and it may never be as strong as before they unpegged from the dollar. BA will continue to be a bargain for us no matter what at least through the end of the year.
EZE
Profrock,
Cellphone rentals are very easy in BA. I am down there so often I thought about just starting service on my own phone. The problem is that you gotta buy a phone. The phone I wanted here in the USA was almost $375 US. (It's expensive when you don't get a service plan from a carrier). Then I would have had to pay $30 US a month down there. Also, it's impossible to find SIM cards for your GSM phone down there. I could be wrong but I never could find any companies that had them.
It's cheaper to just rent one. Mayri at ArgentinaGo -- mayra@argentinago.com -- can set it up for you. The rates are OK. They don't charge for the actual rental. They only charge you 0.55 pesos per minute for incoming and outbound local calls and almost 2 pesos a minute for calls to USA. All of course is plus tax. I don't even want to know what my bill is going to be. I used my cellphone a TON while I was there for a month. I also called the USA alot with it.
The cool thing is that Mayri can set it up where they come to your apartment or hotel so you don't have to do anything. They just need your passport and a credit card and that's it. VERY easy.
Good luck.
P.S. I totally agree with EZE_Amante. Things will take time. Things will be volatile for a while until elections are over. I hope the peso stays in check because I have a few apartments now and all my bills are in pesos. Argentina has no really good outlines or plans in place to improve their situation. Until they do....the peso can't stay up for any sustainable period of time.
Saint,
Thanks for the info. This helps alot. Also as to the currency issue March 2003 currency hedging contracts are showing 3.22-3.31 ARS to the 1 USD. So it looks like the ARS may weaken a bit over the next couple of months. But then again we are talking about South American! So who knows!
Again thanks,
P
Originally posted by saint
Profrock,
Cellphone rentals are very easy in BA. ....
It's cheaper to just rent one. Mayri at ArgentinaGo -- mayra@argentinago.com -- can set it up for you. The rates are OK. They don't charge for the actual rental. They only charge you 0.55 pesos per minute for incoming and outbound local calls and almost 2 pesos a minute for calls to USA. All of course is plus tax. ....
The cool thing is that Mayri can set it up where they come to your apartment or hotel so you don't have to do anything. They just need your passport and a credit card and that's it. VERY easy.
Good luck.
P.S. I totally agree with EZE_Amante. Things will take time. Things will be volatile for a while until elections are over. I hope the peso stays in check because I have a few apartments now and all my bills are in pesos. Argentina has no really good outlines or plans in place to improve their situation. Until they do....the peso can't stay up for any sustainable period of time.
Saint,
Thanks for the info about the cell phone rental- will definately use it next time.
Btw, I noticed you rent apartments in BA, and I'd like to know what kind of information do you give to the owners ? Is it difficult to rent an apartment ?
thanks
I just got the courage to go through my bills from the trip (not that bad, really, but more than I planned) and I noticed I got a MUCH better conversion rate, around 3.24 - 3.26 on my MasterCard than what I got on my VISA, 3.09 - 3.11. So keep that in mind.
DH
Dickhead. I know what you're talking about when you say "courage". I was adding up all my expenses from my 5 week trip. I forgot about my credit cards. I only added up my ATM withdrawals. YIKES! The termas in Rio really can add up if you are going 2-3 times a day. Oh well....at least I'm getting miles....
Mastercard seems to always offer the best rate. My American Advantage Citibank credit card has always offered good rates. Mastercard is more of a universal worldwide card i think.
You're welcome all about cellphone rental information.
Elvis, renting apartments in BA is not as easy as you think. Actually it can be a pain in the ass. Most people in Buenos Aires need something called an immobilario, which is a co-signer that will co-sign saying that if you don't pay your rent they will pay it. They have to own property in BA. Good luck finding someone like that. You can get around that by usually paying 1-2 years worth of rent up front. (Yeah...it can add up). Then many of them want a few months deposit. So if the rent was $500 US a month you'd have to pay $6,000 - $12,000 US up front + $1000 for deposit.
Many of the apartments are not furnished so you gotta add that expense. Even the ones that are often have crappy furniture so you gotta go out and buy suitable furniture. In all of mine, I've gone out and purchased new beds, sheets, pillows, etc.
Many owners won't rent to you unless you're doing some kind of business in Buenos Aires. The first apartment was kind of difficult but luckily the owner did business in my city and we had mutual clients. He called and verified that I said who I was and I did what I did. The subsequent apartments have been easier now that I have apartments and I have utilities in my name. When I go to look...I have my bills with me to show that I already live in Buenos Aires.
Also, utilities are not the easiest to get in your name. Simple things like getting a telephone can take up to 2 months sometimes. Sometimes you gotta know how to work the system. Also, the subletting laws are universal here. Technically you are not supposed to sublet although everyone and their brother does it. I had them alter my contracts to protect me and allow "friends" to use my apartment.
It's kind of just been an experiment for me to see how it goes. It doesn't make sense for the average guy to do a long-term lease unless you are going down very frequently (i.e. more than 45 days a year). In the past 12 months I've been in Buenos Aires for vacation almost 60 days. Those hotels can add up.
Many of the available apartments in Recoleta have "dried" up though. There are not that many listings compared to several months ago. On my last few weeks there I looked at a ton of apartments with my realtor. On two of them I made an offer only to have the owners back out saying that they only wanted to do a 3 month lease because they thought the peso would get stronger. 3 months to me isn't worth it so I backed out.
I'm looking at adding a few more apartments. My website www.apartmentsba.com will be up in a few weeks.
the exchange rate on your credit card has zero to do with whether it's mc or visa. they both use the interbank rates. they both pass a 1% fee to the issuing bank.
the difference in card fx rates comes from the fees the bank charges. for example, citi visa with aa adds a 2% fee (on top of the 1% visa fee). amex always has a total 3% fee. my new mbna card, which i only obtained for b.a. travel, doesn't add any fee, but then they also don't obsorb the 1% visa fee.
so, with any/all cards, expect the current interbank fx rate, which is what you'd get with an atm wdl!, plus a miniumum of 1%. call all your cards before you go to know what fees each carries.
note, this is why an atm is better - they'll only charge the $1.50 fee that the local bank charges, vs. the 1% plus up to 2% more.
JamesBond69
01-28-03, 18:20
Originally posted by leo
note, this is why an atm is better - they'll only charge the $1.50 fee that the local bank charges, vs. the 1% plus up to 2% more. [/i]
The US ATM cards deduct $US 5.00 from your account per transaction in Argentina, no matter what amount you withdraw.
Jamesbond. ATM charges vary depending upon the type of card you have, the issuing bank, and how much buisiness you do with the bank. I use a Nation's Bank Visa and have no service charge. My CitiBank Cash card charges 1.50 per transaction.
Originally posted by leo
the exchange rate on your credit card has zero to do with whether it's mc or visa. they both use the interbank rates. they both pass a 1% fee to the issuing bank.
the difference in card fx rates comes from the fees the bank charges. for example, citi visa with aa adds a 2% fee (on top of the 1% visa fee). amex always has a total 3% fee. my new mbna card, which i only obtained for b.a. travel, doesn't add any fee, but then they also don't obsorb the 1% visa fee.
so, with any/all cards, expect the current interbank fx rate, which is what you'd get with an atm wdl!, plus a miniumum of 1%. call all your cards before you go to know what fees each carries.
note, this is why an atm is better - they'll only charge the $1.50 fee that the local bank charges, vs. the 1% plus up to 2% more.
Disagree. I used my ATM card down there also which is a VISA and got 3.09 - 3.11 just like I got on the VISA credit card vs. the much better rate on the MC credit card (although I pay no ATM fees with this particular VISA debit card).
Originally posted by jamesbond69
The US ATM cards deduct $US 5.00 from your account per transaction in Argentina, no matter what amount you withdraw.
Not true in the case of my ATM card. But, it is connect to my brokerage account so that could be why. And, I know there was no fee hidden in the conversion because once I used it twice in one day to withdraw different amounts and the (lousy) conversion rate was exactly the same.
guys it's simple, your visa/mc-issuing bank/broker/institution adds a fee, it's impedded in the converstion rate. it's as high as 2%. so if the interbank rate is 3.300, and the bank charges 2%, then you'll see 3.234 as you're fx rate. this is for purchase transactions, not withdrawls!
atm transactions carry various fees, which may be fixed rate or percentage, charged by the atm owner/institution (local bank), and/or your bank/institution.
call your institution and ask what they charge you. or both/either.
Need some help. I have a friend who is in the hospital in BA and I am trying to call him. I have tried numerous dial-around services as well just using my own LD service (at $4.95 per MINUTE) and no matter what I do, the phone rings a few times and just hangs up. I fear getting numerous charges on my bill for a bunch of incomplete calls. I don't want to buy a $20 prepaid card and have it just hang up me so that is a last resort. I realize there could be a problem with the local system and I will try again tomorrow (he is supposed to be released pretty early if all goes well) but does anybody have any ideas? How do you guys usually call down there? I have never made an international call in my life that I can remember.
DH
Dickhead:
What hospital are you talking about?
If public, forget about getting an answer. If the phone number refers to the Administrative section of a private hospital, you won't get responses until business hours.
Hope this helps,
Andres
The hospital is called Ramos-Mejia, but I don't think the problem is that they are not answering. It only rings like twice and then it just disconnects. I tried calling the Hilton just to see what would happen and the same thing happens. I am dialing 011, then 54, then the 8 digit number (from my land line, or the same thing after using the dial around number).
Thanks, Andres.
EZE_Amante
01-30-03, 06:54
Dickhead,
If you were calling a cell phone, you would have to dial a 9 after the country code (54), but it sounds like you are calling a land line. The sequence should be 011-5411-xxxx-xxxx. If you are calling a city other than BA, replace the 11 after the 54 with the appropriate city code. I have at times had trouble getting through, but not very often. You can always try having the operator place your call.
I also want to mention (being a cheap bastard that works way too hard to throw away money), that I just switched my long distance to Sprint Global Savings II, I get a rate of 31 cents per minute to Argentina, and they are partners with United FF program, so I get 5 miles for every long distance dollar spent. All domestic ld calls are 7 cents a minute.
Just a suggestion from a guy who made a few very expensive Argentina calls before wising up.
EZE :)
dickhead.....I phone Argentina at least 3 times per week, usually more. I never pay more than 31cents per minute. EZE_Amante (who has the handle I would have if I had been creative enough to think of it!) uses Sprint...ATT has a similar program...
All phone cards are not equal. Some charge a minimum connection charge. Some have terrible connections. etc. I use ATT cards I buy at Sams Club....31c a minute..........another phone card I purchases promised a slightly lower rate, but charges a 8 minute connection fee, so the overall rate is higher.
does your amiga who works on Florida carry a cell? You could chat with her while she hustles (sonrisa)
Dickhead:
Ramos Mejia is a public hospital. If I remember, it should be located in Urquiza St between 400 and 700.
By the way, I use a cheap phone card taken from www.phonecardonsale.com, usually Sweet Heart. It charges me $0.05 per minute, no connection fee. Sometimes you hear frying noises and usually you have to dial 30 numbers between 1-800s, PIN and International number, but it's worth the try if you call a lot.
Respect to Florida St SWs, some guys at the Yahoo site rave about a redhaired stunner that strolls the street dressed with an executive suit. It seems that she became popular (often unavailable) and can be found close to Galerias Pacifico.
Hope this helps,
Andres
dickhead, don't forget the city code (for ba it's 11) after the country code (54). for a cell you'd dial the '9' after the city code, i believe, but i don't remember.
CHEAPEST LONG DISTANCE RATES INFO HERE!
i just did a great deal of research, here are your two best options (or please provide info to show something better!):
(1), use the 10-10 service of 10-10-629. this will give you a 12cent rate to a landline (same to cell or 18cents?), and you don't switch your service or make any other changes, no monthly fees or commitments. there is no universal service fee (usf), so no monthly pop like (most all) other 10-10s. only fcc tax which is charged by-minute and is exactly equal to all 10-10 plans. only catch is they charge you a minimum of three minutes, even if your call is one or two minutes. they offer a lower per minute dial around, i think at 9cents, but it has a minimum 10 minute charge.
info at www.1010629.com
(2) buy a 'calling card' (no physical card, just an 800 number and pin). compare among them the bi-montly maintenance fee, minute round-ups, other fees, etc, and it might be tough to find the best one. here's my choice after the research (and the choice differs based on the countries you'll call most, for me it was a combination low rate for ar, br, and columbia)- a $20 prepaid plan with best priced telecom with absolutely no service fee, no connect fee, no mtce fee, all per minutes are 24hrs 5cents in u.s, 7.5cent for columbian cities, 14cents non-city columbia, 6cents b.a., 11cents ar cell.
info at www.bptelcom.com
hope this helps save you some money!
Originally posted by EZE_amante
Dickhead,
If you were calling a cell phone, you would have to dial a 9 after the country code (54), but it sounds like you are calling a land line. The sequence should be 011-5411-xxxx-xxxx.
EZE :)
OK, thanks. It sounds like I am missing an 11. But I got a call this morning and my friend has already checked out. I guess he is OK.
Originally posted by ezy
All phone cards are not equal. Some charge a minimum connection charge. Some have terrible connections. etc. I use ATT cards I buy at Sams Club....31c a minute..........another phone card I purchases promised a slightly lower rate, but charges a 8 minute connection fee, so the overall rate is higher.
does your amiga who works on Florida carry a cell? You could chat with her while she hustles (sonrisa)
Thanks. I was trying to avoid buying the card for $20 (the smallest amount I could find on the net) since I don't plan to call down there on any regular basis (and make very, very few LD calls in general). And no, neither of those gals on Florida has a cell phone and that is one reason they are on the street (but by no means the only reason).
Originally posted by andresg1967
Dickhead:
Respect to Florida St SWs, some guys at the Yahoo site rave about a redhaired stunner that strolls the street dressed with an executive suit. It seems that she became popular (often unavailable) and can be found close to Galerias Pacifico.
Hope this helps,
Andres
I will put her on my TO DO list. Five weeks to go. Thanks for all the help.
I've posted this a long long time ago buried in many posts. The BEST deal on calling cards that I found is the Blackstone "No connection fee" card. www.blackstoneonline.com Make sure you get the no connection fee card. I get over 6 hours on a $20 card. Over 3 hours on a $10 card. I go through at least one card a week. I talk to many chicas and other business contacts in Buenos Aires and now Rio.
Leo's card may be a good option too. I haven't tried that one yet. Good luck.
Jon_the_Man
02-01-03, 10:25
I will be in BA soon and have following question:
- i will take my mobile phone (european model) with me because i was granted that it will work there
- however i checked the operator prices using my regular SIM-card in BA - prices would be skyhigh!
- i understood, that i could buy local pre-paid SIM-card to my phone in BA, is this correct and how much do i have to pay for that? - are there many operators who are offering these pre-paid cards?
Thanks in advance
Unfortunately my friend had to go back to the hospital and I did call him there using Leo's recommended dial around. Thanks for straightening me out on the city code. I knew about that but I thought that was what the 011 was. Funny with all the traveling I've done I have never made an international phone call before.
Andres, the hospital answered right away. I think the number was actually the ward and not the front desk or anything because they had my friend on the line in five seconds (the time of the call was pre-arranged via e-mail). The sound quality was not good and I couldn't understand much but he has to stay there until Tuesday for some tests.
5 weeks and 4 days.
JamesBond69
02-03-03, 18:29
Originally posted by saint
My Spanish is getting better day by day but if it wasn't... I would use Roxana in an instant and I HIGHLY encourage you to do the same. She has the "Saint seal of approval".
I speak Spanish OK but I had Roxana help me with some business dealings down there and she really came through, as she knows how things work (or don't work) in Argentina. She's a ten in my book, absolutely invaluable.
Can somebody answer this for me.
I recently used Mayra to book a room at the Dazzler for me. Now I know she is a bright girl, and she knows why a lot of "middle aged men" come to Buenos Aires. LOL
Is she aware of the WSGFORUM?
Mayri is a bright girl. Anyone with half a brain can figure out why middle aged men are flocking to Buenos Aires. Especially when they can't speak a lick of Spanish..ha, ha. She doesn't assume anything when she helps a client. She does know about the Forum but she doesn't have time to read it.
She is the most non-judgemental person I know. She books so many rooms for regular people going to BA on vacation so there is no way for her to know who is a hobbyist or who isn't. It doesn't matter either way as she is very professional and would never mention anything unless you told her why you were going to BA.
I know she is on vacation now in Brazil. She was having problems accessing her email so if anyone emailed her and didn't get a response she said...she is really sorry.
So... me and the guys were, like, having a great time, ya know? We were just sittin' around having this friendly little game of cards, and a few drinks, and a smoke and swappin' stories about whores and all of a sudden there's, like, this woman standing there in the room and we're thinking, like, "Jeez, what's she doing here? Are we gonna have to clean up our act?"
Tell me Roxy, you're not the kind to kiss and tell, are you??
"Do I have to pay the girl to be with me...."
Of course you do. Women cost money. I figured that out when I was 14. Whether she's a pro or not, all women expect (and deserve) something for their time. The only issue to be determined is... what will be the medium of exchange?
"How much is correct to pay for this??"
There is no correct amount to pay. It all depends... on the woman, on the man, how they feel about each other, on the cultural milieu. You'll pay less in BA (I'm hoping) than in NYC, or the Moonlight Bunny Ranch.
Actually, I'm looking forward to having you around. I think it will be interesting to have a female perspective on our particular hobby.
As long as we can keep the card game going.
Guillermo
Sounds great andres!
I'm looking forward to meeting a whole different kind of woman and proving myself wrong!
OttoGraham
02-13-03, 04:35
This issue is curious; there is no shortage of women in Buenos Aires who will gladly spend an afternoon with you having a leisurely glass of wine at a bistro for nothing more than the pleasure of a gentleman's company.
IF you are doing a long-term booking (longer than an overnighter) you're already paying for this as part of your fee. I think that's generally understood.
But to pay just for the pleasure of having lunch with me? Hell, no, I'll strike up a conversation with the people at the next table, thankyouverymuch!
-Uncle Otto
MiddleAgeGuy
02-13-03, 14:37
On paying to go for a meal or cine:
From some experience, this is a topic worthy of opinion. A dinner, drink, show, tango, whatever, is one of my preferences to start the evening, time permitting. And that is the point with some of the chicas; TIME. One of the VIP girls I was infatuated with given the pictures advertised, said over the phone there would be a 100P/hr charge across the board, her place my place and any place/activity inbetween. For me, it was time to say thank you very much for not charging me for the 10 minutes of conversation, and adios. I can see from her point of view that she is potentially missing out on $ from another source which she must weigh against a sure meal and the risk of unenjoyable company. Too bad for her as I know she missed a nice diversion.
On another 2 occasions, with a negotiated TLN in place with a different chica, had a great dinner and walk and on another night went to a great show then after show dinner. Great evenings, fine breakfasts, stimulating conversation, (not to mention other things!).
On a shorter time line, brought one of the chicas out of the club, went to a cafe for a more relaxed conversation then to the hotel. All for the agreed hotel stay time. Later, she said she would love to sometime just spend the evening showing me the town, going out for a dinner, etc. The unwritten agreement was payment for the 'etc.' later, not the preamble.
So mi amigo, the thing is you can offer the dinner etc., you had best negotiate the price beforehand, then see if the response is what you want to hear. Keep your phone list handy.
For Dickhead,
(love your prose), I think of Roxana, (who I have never met), as an interesting alternative to SOP, rather then a need for those without castellano, (don't you just love the argenteans for their colloquial adherence to certain terms). I certainly speak more spanish then my first few times down to BA but it never interfered too badly.
staticicon
02-18-03, 15:56
Hey Guys,
I am an argentine living in BA.
Need a favour from any of you coming down here these days.
I need a couple of books that can not find here.
Would anyone buy it for me in the US ??
Will be glad to give you a tour through BA scene in return.
Email me: staticicon@latinmail.com
Wow. I don't read the BA board a few days and I'm surprised to see controversy. I sincerely hope that this BA section doesn't deteriorate. I guess it's inevitable. Please, please please guys...let's keep this board civil. Everyone is entitled to their opinions as long as they do it respecting others. I know not everyone will agree with me. They don't have to and I would hope they don't. We're all different. I don't begrudge what others do as long as they aren't hurting anyone and not hurting themselves.
We all have different tastes and styles. If I come off as "a rich snob" then so be it. I can honestly say I probably make friends easier than any guy out there in life. I've worked hard for my money as have other guys on the board. I've achieved everything on my own so I could care less what guys think.
However, I do care that this board doesn't become trash like other sections. I know other very well-respected, informative hobbyist that refuse to post on WSG because they remember the old days of flame wars. That is why the private boards are so great and I have become more involved with the private boards.
Buenos Aires is a beautiful city with beautiful people. Not just the women but everyone in general. Guys...if you're not having fun and getting upset over stuff then maybe you should pick a new hobby.
Life is good.
DH,
American? Yes. But my father's mother was from County Galway, along with her 6 brothers and sisters. My dad was born in South Boston. Imagine that, an Irishman in So. Boston!
Int'l mongering? Mainly Mexico and Eastern Europe. Mexico because it's close and Eastern Europe because I'm fairly fluent in Russian.
OttoGraham
02-18-03, 20:46
Fellows, a couple of observations from Uncle Otto.
First, I admit to being something of an epicurean. There is little I like more than having a fine dinner paired with excellent wine and an interesting and beautiful female companion.
Second, there are plenty of women, both professional and regular, in Buenos Aires who will fit the bill for this category. Amongst the professional girls, I wager to say that a booking done as a "TLN" or overnighter is bound to be something similar to what I described, unless all you really want is to slap some ass for six hours straight. God bless you if you can do it, but I can't. But the most important ingredient for having a good time this was is to be a gentleman. Your Uncle Otto isn't rich, but good manners don't cost money now, do they?
Third, Roxana is a tremendous resource, don't underestimate how much she can help you with regards to your trip to BA. While I've never used her services, she has been spoken of highly by personal friends like Jackson, people whose opinions I respect. I have no doubt she can not only help you shape a chica search, she can get you the best value for money in it as well.
Fourth, everybody is in business. Ten bucks for this help from Roxana is a pittance. You're spending $500-600 to travel to BA, another $30-$100 a night for a hotel, and you're whining about a sawbuck? Heck, friend, it would be cheaper to sit at home and wank with a back issue of Penthouse!
??? Controversy?? Don't really see any lately. And Saint, that is only sometimes that you come off that way, like when you are talking about all your apartments and how much money you spent. Like I say, I'm probably just jealous. I grew up so poor I had to jack off the dog just to feed the cat!
Everybody says they couldn't care less what other people think, but everybody DOES care.
Calling cards
This post is not as exciting as the Roxanna debate!
I purchased the card Saint recommended ( blackstone no connect)and I wanted to share my experience with the card. First, I called to Tandil, which is south of Buenos Aires. The quoted rate on the Blackstone site to Agentina was 6.6 cents per minute. I was charged 19 cents per minute. I called to inquire and was told that the call was routed through a cell phone system to a land line. I know who I called, my business associate- Marcelo, and I called his home , not a cell phone. Blackstone's reply was that they have no control over the rates charged, Yea, whatever, You ( blackstone) advertised 6.6 cents per minute to Argentina - Non BA area. Blackstone did not offer to correct the error, their explanation was they did not know it was 19 cents.
I think the rates to the BA area may be correct, but watch the rest of Argentina as it is not as advertised.
The good news is that I make a ton of calls to South Africa and the rate is 12 cents which is a fantastic rate. Thanks for the tip here Saint, as this will save me about $100 per month just in South Africa calls.
I did not buy the card to call chicas, but for business calls, So maybe Saint can verify if the rates are as adverised to BA land and cell lines.
If anyone knows of a good card for calling outside of the BA area, please let me know. I need to call Rosario and Tandil.
Ibiza
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