View Full Version : Looking for the reality
Gotta love the Monger World! I have been looking around the internet trying to get some EXPAT info, and the richest sources for good solid info is this board. Thanks Jackson.
This post is an intro and contains questions.
I am Zon Zon, a normal American, 40 year old white guy who thought my life was over a couple of years ago after a divorce. Turns out to have been the best fucking thing that could have happened to me! I have lived in the Caribbean last year - DR. This year I dove into Cali, Colombia. The women are great, and the cost of living very low.
BUT, I am looking for a little more refinement, haughtiness, classiness in the women I date (a little "pay for play," a little "fair and square" works for me) I think Argentina might be my next destination.
So my question is about the chicas. I can best ask by a simple comparison. I found GREAT beauty in Santiago DR, but the women were so simple, they could almost not be plugged into a modern world. Colombia is a MAJOR step in the right direction. But Colombianas have a difficult time with the absolute truth. Although some are intelligent, few have top notch social grace - sophistication. And, I think ALL become seriously mentally ill about jealousy.
Almost ANY Gringo can date almost ANY working / non working girl in Cali, it does not matter what her age is and how beautiful. (I get the impression, that is not the case in BA)
I am looking for adventure and fun first. I would not mind running into something a little more serious and long lasting.
If I can be of service in DR and / or Cali, I have facilities and contacts.
Gracias.
BTW - How does Montevideo compare?
PS - I noticed this place is run like a tight ship. Hope I did not break any rules.
Sidney, I mean no disrespect, but you're not doing it right. I have had no problems at all dating the locals; indeed, the biggest trouble is wading through the hip-deep scraps of paper with names, numbers and emails thrown at me. Generally, though, I've found them to be refined and classy, if not a little too materialistic. But hey, I love fun, coquettish girls.
HOWEVER. I speak castellano at a pretty high level, dress well, keep fit and play polo (which I have to say, Argentine chicks just love) If you want to date a classy, smart and pretty Argentine girl, I would suggest that you at least try to speak the language, dress in nice clothing, wear nice shoes, get an expensive watch, lose that paunch and get an interesting hobby. From my fairly extensive Argentine experience, EVEN very smart Argentine girls (I've dated lawyers) are "shallow" in the sense that they like their man to look good.
Finally, get Argentine MALE friends. I have Argentine male friends who invite me to parties where I meet girls. This is just plain critically important.
Unless you want to date some poor girl from the provincia, don't expect that just because you're some rich foreigner it'll automatically get you into their pants. If you want to date a pretty girl with a good education, you're going to have to try a little harder.
Ya sé, entre dicho why hecho hay mucho trecho. (I know, easier said than done)
Thanks for the reply.
Because of the first post, I felt like "oh fuck! I have already gotten the BA experience - nothing new." The second post made me say to myself, "How hard can polo be to learn anyway?"
I have beginners Spanish. Another 90 days, it will be better still. I have enough spin on the ball to break into enviable social circles. The question is would I want to? It would require time and effort (as you say)
I was amazed at how beautiful women discounted looks and age in the DR and Colombia. (I have a friend who is 63 and looks every bit his age. But he is a sweet guy, and very young and attractive Colombian girls play with him as if he was 25. I am not 25; but I look good; I'm fit; party dance, whatever. Sometimes I did not feel that was important at all to Combianas, even less to girls in the DR) I imagine this is not the case in Argentina? And, also, most Colomibian men treat their women like shit. That is another reason, Colombian women value gringos highly. What is the comparison to Argentina.
(Sorry for the constant Colombian / DR references. I thought that would add relevance)
I'd have to say, this is a very accurate post. Maybe not 100% , (these things are always subjective) but very close to my experience.
Just like anywhere else in the world, you have to have a good game. Guys that only pay for it have either forgotten or never knew how to use their game. Dressing well and being physically fit is a HUGE plus. Argie girls are very much into looks and nice bodies, no matter if they are young college chicks or older milf types.
I'd go on but it's not necessary. Unless you have a different plan of attack in mind.
Regards,
BM
Btw. Lol @ Montevideo.
Sidney, I mean no disrespect, but you're not doing it right. I have had no problems at all dating the locals; indeed, the biggest trouble is wading through the hip-deep scraps of paper with names, numbers and emails thrown at me. Generally, though, I've found them to be refined and classy, if not a little too materialistic. But hey, I love fun, coquettish girls.
HOWEVER. I speak castellano at a pretty high level, dress well, keep fit and play polo (which I have to say, Argentine chicks just love) If you want to date a classy, smart and pretty Argentine girl, I would suggest that you at least try to speak the language, dress in nice clothing, wear nice shoes, get an expensive watch, lose that paunch and get an interesting hobby. From my fairly extensive Argentine experience, EVEN very smart Argentine girls (I've dated lawyers) are "shallow" in the sense that they like their man to look good.
Finally, get Argentine MALE friends. I have Argentine male friends who invite me to parties where I meet girls. This is just plain critically important.
Unless you want to date some poor girl from the provincia, don't expect that just because you're some rich foreigner it'll automatically get you into their pants. If you want to date a pretty girl with a good education, you're going to have to try a little harder.
Ya sé, entre dicho why hecho hay mucho trecho. (I know, easier said than done)
Member #3320
07-26-09, 14:45
Sidney, I mean no disrespect, but you're not doing it right. I have had no problems at all dating the locals; indeed, the biggest trouble is wading through the hip-deep scraps of paper with names, numbers and emails thrown at me. Generally, though, I've found them to be refined and classy, if not a little too materialistic. But hey, I love fun, coquettish girls.
HOWEVER. I speak castellano at a pretty high level, dress well, keep fit and play polo (which I have to say, Argentine chicks just love) If you want to date a classy, smart and pretty Argentine girl, I would suggest that you at least try to speak the language, dress in nice clothing, wear nice shoes ( Argie non-pros especially give a lot of attention to shoes and belts), get an expensive watch, lose that paunch and get an interesting hobby. From my fairly extensive Argentine experience, EVEN very smart Argentine girls (I've dated lawyers) are "shallow" in the sense that they like their man to look good.
Finally, get Argentine MALE friends. I have Argentine male friends who invite me to parties where I meet girls. This is just plain critically important.
Unless you want to date some poor girl from the provincia, don't expect that just because you're some rich foreigner it'll automatically get you into their pants. If you want to date a pretty girl with a good education, you're going to have to try a little harder.
Ya sé, entre dicho why hecho hay mucho trecho. (I know, easier said than done)Sinistra,
I very much agree with your posts and experience. In fact any where in the world to date a non-pro - the foremost requirement is dress up trendy/chic/hip, be fit ( some regular cardiovascular is v v necessary) ,wear smart trendy shoes, expensive watch (Bvalgari is a good option), speak the same language ( to at least 50% level). Having local male buddies is definitely as asset as well.
Without these, success will be purely based on P4P either directly or subtly.
Even if you are 50+, you can pull it off provided the above discussed basics are followed. In addition, extra care regarding keeping in shape, maybe a wig to cover the loss of hair,visit to a cosmetic dental surgeon if required, some witty communication skills, will definitely be helpful.
Lets face the reality. Girls either like to date v rich guys or good looking, smart,trendy, hip, intelligent guys. However, the amalgamation of both is really the best option for them but then that option is rarely available to them!
Hope your report combined with my comments ( along with Badman's below) is helpful for other newbies in town looking for non-pros.
I am one of the oldest Mongers. I am not fluent in Castellano, nor play polo. All the young Argie chicas that I have met are losers. The older ones than I have met at Gran Bar Danzon and at polo matches, are not much better and extremely materialistic (Gucci's, Luis Vutton's, Hermes, etc. I remember an older man that fell for one. She conned him out of at least $25,000.
You have many advantages.
Happy hunting and Mongering.
Ol' Wise SidIt is so bad the boy keeps returning for more abuse.
LMAO
(Once again I have to say that the direct, NO BS, input I have received here, together with threads on culture / economics, is 1000 x more helpful than any other resource I have found - THANKS)
Since, this is an orientation thread for me, and others looking for a mixture of fun and real possibliities. What's up with Montevideo? WTF Some reports elsewhere say it is a sleeping jem - you guys seem to be bursting out laughing.
As long as we are at it, I know Rio is well traveled, what is the consensus on the Florianapolis area of Brazil?
Again, thank you for tolerating my newbie questions that have taken us a little off the main subject here. I will not over stay my welcome.
Iamzonzon, one thing you have to realize about the type of Argentinos you would be seeking is that they think they are the cream of the world.
To have nice clothes (or just about anything nice) is expensive here - the same nice clothes you can get in the States, for example, are 2-3 times more expensive here.
The "middle" class here (what we would consider to be "less advantaged" or even poor [on the upper side] in the States) shops at cheaper places, where the clothes look halfway decent maybe, but don't last a year in many cases. They live as a couple in tiny apartments between 25 and 50 sq meters. With a family maybe 50 to 75 sq meters. They can't afford many nice things in life. They are educated poorly because they couldn't afford the fancy schools that teach half a day in English and the other half in Spanish, which is where real education happens.
Because of this, the more sophisticated people you search for either have money or are from families that have money.
To them, foreigners are well beneath them in many cases (not all) At best, they are not exactly charmed by them, as may be the case in many other parts of the world where the rich are an even smaller class and they crave culture and the exoticness of a foreigner. They can be somewhat zenophobic, but can warm up to foreigners when they get to know them individually.
What these guys are saying about dating locals, therefore, is absolutely true. It can be done, but you have to invest some time and effort to do so. There are not any young (or middle-aged) sophisticated Argentine women falling all over themselves to meet an American. You have to get to know them and prove that you are someone they want to get to know first.
Having said that, many of the locals are very beautiful and in some cases maybe worth the effort. But you will find many that have problems with the truth as well, in many different guises and levels of deception.
I offer this outlook, having lived here now for three years and coming from a situation similar to yours. I'm in my mid-forties. I was married for 20 years in the States, divorced, and met a beautiful, young, poor Paraguayan here, whom I married.
I have local friends as well as ex-pat friends (though many more ex-pats friends, admittedly) I have no doubt that I could meet a local women here and turn that into something if I wanted.
I didn't have experience with trying to date local Argentine women (I go by my friends and acquaintances here who have) but the truth is I don't have a whole lot of interest in women who are so jaded and full of themselves that many "educated" women around the world are tainted with (I. E. Not just here)
I like intelligence; but not selfishness or disingenuousness, which is what you will find here at many of the "higher", or sophisticated, levels of society.
However, if you have the time and desire, you should come on down and experience Buenos Aires if only for the fun. When I first came here, I was enamoured with the place. It was the drag of time living as a local that has made me see some of the shadier sides of life here, but in many ways I prefer living here to the States.
When I read comments like "all the local girls are losers" and "they just want to scam you out of your money" I suspect the author has had no exposure to regular local girls. He's only met pros in one form or another.
The main reason for this is lack of language skills. You will not be able hook up with local amateurs if you are not conversational in Spanish which is a shame since Argentine women are fantastic. Sexy, elegant and educated especially when compared to American women and very approachable. Most of the girls I dated were from middle-upper barrios of Recoleta / Belgrano / Caballito and were not demanding or bitchy at all. You take them out for dinner / drinks / movie once in a while, make some occasional compliments, and the rest of the time they're fucking your brains out.
If you: 1) can speak the language, 2) aren't a total slob, 3) are wealthy enough to buy an occasional dinner, 4) have reasonable expectations regarding your target age (not more than 30% drop) then you will have no problems. I mean look around at the local guys you're competing with – not too intimidating, actually a boost to your confidence. I'm sure that playing polo and wearing Armani doesn't hurt but it's not necessary. As a foreigner you are interesting enough.
Get out a little, talk to the people in your building / neighborhood, make some local friends, and you will have pussy falling out of the sky before you know it. You will be amazed at how easily you meet women in random situations like at the internet café, waiting in line at the store, whatever. Most of Argentina is an urban environment so you have much more social contact every day (again, if you speak the language).
Mr. Moore he has clearly stated my opinions as well. I count the days until I am there in August and believe it is my paradise awaiting me in the future. I have found a majority of the women there very charming and pleasant with some few exceptions. A little show of attention or good manners and they are very appreciative. I really feel alive there and younger!
Not to take sides in this one but I have no doubt in El Sids ability to get over, with language skill, non-polo, and non age barrier. He is a major player.I really don't think this should be about insults and taking sides. I was simply trying to lay out an effective strategy for dating attractive, smart Argentine women. I want to reiterate that I think that one of the most important things is to get Argentine male friends to help you get on the inside. It's way easier (and less creepy) to get introduced to chicas than to try and hit on them in bars.
I must say though: 1) I think Argentine women can be quite sweet and better in the sack than the average European chick. 2) I fuck pros because I like diversity, even if I'm dating a hot chick.
Big Travel Guy
07-27-09, 11:34
What's up with Montevideo? WTF Some reports elsewhere say it is a sleeping jem - you guys seem to be bursting out laughing.Not to turn this discussion of meeting real-world chicas into a forum on Uruguay, but since ZonZon asked about this subject here, twice, let me just give him (and anyone else who needs it) the link to a rather helpful forum in the World Sex Guide (especially World Traveler 69's invaluable list)
http://www.internationalsexguide.info/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=165
This stuff was a big help to me when I was mongering (or trying to) over there.
I'll just make three points, if you're thinking of going to spend some time there:
1) if the goal is to meet non P4P chicas there as a visiting foreigner with modest Spanish language skills, it MAY be that you will find the average Uruguayan a little less stuck up and materialistic than her Portena counterparts. Uruguyanas are proud of their country, and all that, but they know they are not Brazil nor Argentina, and thus have a much more modest sense of their own relative importance in the world. Some people compare the attitude to one of Canadians vs. Americans, but I don't know about that.
I don't know if you'd find the attitudes there more user friendly than in BA (since I'm only looking for the pros, myself) but you might.
2) In Montevideo, you will find the independent chicas advertising on line as pretty much hit or miss, with maybe a few more misses in that talent pool. What passes for privados are often more like low end night clubs, and are well below BA in quality (and quantity) One exception: StarBene, listed on WT69's list. This is a privado of exceptional quality. It has prices that are about like El Cielo Private on Llarena in BA, but a quality of girls, and a pleasantness of surroundings (especially in the common areas--the bedrooms vary in quality, according to price, believe it or not) also are on par with BA joints like El Cielo. I had a few great sessions there, the best of which, though, ironically, was with a 21 year old Argentine girl named Paola.
3) I personally have come to find the city of Montevideo pretty dreary. It has it's good parts, and good days (and any day that includes a trip to StarBene is a good day!) But all in all, I much prefer the beach scene, out east to Punta Del Este, and its surroundings, in the summer season, to be the highlight of the country. Of course, there you will meet mostly vacationing Argentines! If you do get as far as Punta Del Este, don't miss a visit (or two, or three, or daily) to the Casa De La Nonna (sp?) In Maldonado. Great in-call P4P sex experience, with dozens and dozens of girls all working completely independently, so you can carve out the price, duration, style, and other details of your particular session any way you like!
BTG
TejanoLibre
07-27-09, 23:07
When I read comments like "all the local girls are losers" and "they just want to scam you out of your money" I suspect the author has had no exposure to regular local girls. He's only met pros in one form or another.
The main reason for this is lack of language skills. You will not be able hook up with local amateurs if you are not conversational in Spanish which is a shame since Argentine women are fantastic. Sexy, elegant and educated especially when compared to American women and very approachable. Most of the girls I dated were from middle-upper barrios of Recoleta / Belgrano / Caballito and were not demanding or bitchy at all. You take them out for dinner / drinks / movie once in a while, make some occasional compliments, and the rest of the time they're fucking your brains out.
If you: 1) can speak the language, 2) aren't a total slob, 3) are wealthy enough to buy an occasional dinner, 4) have reasonable expectations regarding your target age (not more than 30% drop) then you will have no problems. I mean look around at the local guys you're competing with – not too intimidating, actually a boost to your confidence. I'm sure that playing polo and wearing Armani doesn't hurt but it's not necessary. As a foreigner you are interesting enough.
Get out a little, talk to the people in your building / neighborhood, make some local friends, and you will have pussy falling out of the sky before you know it. You will be amazed at how easily you meet women in random situations like at the internet café, waiting in line at the store, whatever. Most of Argentina is an urban environment so you have much more social contact every day (again, if you speak the language)Well said!
Keep a ¨nice ¨ local girl as a girlfriend, work the pros as a hobby and fuck the occasional tourist when you have the chance.
You know, maybe a drunk American or English-Irish pig at the local sports bar, etc.
Girls do grow on trees down here!
TL.
P. S - It's A LOT easier if you speak the language!
Or if you have a resto-bar! That's open. Although closed it still works o. K!
I must say that I was able to get a sense (not a feel) of Argentina from your posts.
Thanks.
I guess the little Colombiano Espaniol I picked up will help, yet Castillo is a little different.
I guess the little Colombiano Espaniol I picked up will help, yet Castillo is a little different.Just a small correction, it's a common misconception. Espanol is a general term for spanish, while Castellano is spanish for "Castillan", which is a specific dialect from Spain itself, from the Castile region, and while the most popular in Spain, there are also 3 other dialects (Galician, Basque, and Catalan) still spoken in Spain, but pretty much nowhere else as far as I know. The other three have some very significant differences from Castellano, as I understand.
The Argentinos call their dialect Castellano, but it is as far from what the Castillans speak as Colombian spanish is from Castellano (maybe more so) If you speak any form of "international" spanish, you will probably be as well off as you were in Colombia, depending on how much of an accent you have.
The more you sound like an American trying to speak spanish, pronouncing the letters as if they were english words, the harder anyone who speaks any form of Spanish as their native language will have understanding you, here included.
There are some different words. "Fresa" = strawberry in many parts of the spanish-speaking world, but here (and in large parts of this region of SA at least) the word is "frutilla". But the Argentinos will for the most part know what a fresa is.
The biggest problem for understanding what they say to you here will be dealing with sounds that in normal spanish make the "y" sound. In many other countries, it's pronounced either as ""y" (as in "yes", not "very") or with a "j" sound, depending on where you are and sometimes the word. Here, it is a very pronounced "sh" sound and can make understanding words a bit difficult at times. "Yo" = "sho", "alla" = "asha", etc. Sometimes when they are talking fast the "sh" really flies.
But for the most part if you use "y" or "j" they will understand.
Also, they use "vos" here in place of "tu" and sometimes "usted." They still understand "tu" and "usted" but you may wonder at first what on earth "vos" is.
there are also 3 other dialects (Galician, Basque, and Catalan) still spoken in Spain, Don't want to be a pendant, but if you're in Catalonia or the Basque country and call their languages dialects of Spanish you could be in trouble. They're very proud of speaking different languages. Catalan is pretty similiar, but Basque is incomprehensible. Galician is pretty different too.
Don't want to be a pendant, but if you're in Catalonia or the Basque country and call their languages dialects of Spanish you could be in trouble. They're very proud of speaking different languages. Catalan is pretty similiar, but Basque is incomprehensible. Galician is pretty different too.Yeah, I wasn't really sure how different they were; the difference between Spanish to Portuguese or the difference between Spanish to French, for example, or even more, like comparing Spanish to German. I've never studied them and was only going by barely-remembered heresay.
Well-corrected and not at all pedantic :)
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.4 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.