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For every illegal immigrant, an American citizen or business entity commits a violation by employing them. Under both Republican or Democrat regimes, in Texas or Alaska. In recent years, we have seen high profile elected officials or politicians running for office been exposed to this illegal activiity. So the question is, what is the underlying motivating factor in us that allow this problem to mushroom, and to enter into every facet of our lives.
It has been said that illegal immigrants exists because they do jobs that Americans do no want to do, jobs that do not pay minimum wages, or are in violation of safety regulations, etc. This is happening all over the world, not just the US. In Singapore, they recently passed a law prohibiting households from forcing their maids to clean the outside of their high rise windows. So far, there has been 6 or 7 deaths of maids plunging to their deaths. There is a word for this, exploitation. It is direct, or indirect, but we are all a part of it.
You can shout or moan all you want, but you are doing it from the point of your vested interest. Just remember that. Patriotism, forget that.Illegal immigrants exist because we don't control our borders or enforce our own immigration laws, period.
That having been said, I am in favor of a Guest Worker program wherein foreign workers, under the auspice of ICE, would be allowed to work 6 month rotating periods in the USA, with an eventual path to citizenship for successful program participants.
Thanks,
Jax
WorldTravel69
06-19-12, 01:44
The question is now about Romney's Transparency. He did it one time, running for Governor. He jumped on the education system. That did not go over very big.
So, now the only one thing he has been Transparent on is Obama Care. He said the first thing he would do is get rid of it.
But, he did not say what would happen to the people on it.
The opinion is that they would have to move to Massachusetts and sign up for his O'Romney Care.
But, he did not say what would happen to the people on it.No one is on ObamaCare yet you roaring uninformed IDIOT! Get you facts straight. PLEASE! The current insurance companies had to add coverage pertaining to preventative care (sort of, nothing expensive like a colonoscopy) , no more max lifetime limits and all kids get covered till mid 20's. Thats why any employer that offers healthcare the last two years saw their rate go viral (20-40% per year increases). The insurance companies are preditary by nature and use ObamanationCare as a great excuse to jack rates, while they could! Most insurance executives realize Obomantion is a one trick poney, BUT saw the opportunity that our idiot-in-chief presented them with. Like most smart executives, they now announce that these changes will remain in place even if ObomanationCare is repealed. The reason? Already built into the premium increases that happened over the past two years. How opportunistic, don't ya think? We'll never see a decrease in rates even after ObomanationCare is a bad memory! The Idiot-in-chief is certainly the gift that keeps on giving. The horrible foolish legacy he has created will be with us for years to come.
All other ongoing ObamanationCare actions relate to building bigger government (more IRS agents, creation of death panels, etc, etc, etc). I understand you barely made it through high school, and the stamps in your passport are quite impressive (in your own mind) , BUT. What stops you from getting educated on the issue? Lots of facts out there! You are retired on your sad union pension (whats up with that dude? No hindsight thoughts on the value of unions) , I suggest you get your facts straight before spouting off with more babble on socialism, vietnam, war, republicans, etc, etc, etc. I thought you wanted this thread closed? Better you remain silent and be thought a fool than open you mouth and remove all doubt!
Monger on Pelosi. Toymann.
Ps. I forgot, too poor to return to Argentina, disregard the "monger on" comment.
WorldTravel69
06-19-12, 12:18
Tell Romney, he said it, not me!
Who's The IDIOTS? That would be the Republicans, they're the ones Talking about getting rid of it, before it starts.
I can't wait to go Back "More of the Same," Bush's Shit.
How Low Can We Go?
No one is on ObamaCare yet you roaring uninformed IDIOT! Get you facts straight. PLEASE! The current insurance companies had to add coverage pertaining to preventative care (sort of, nothing expensive like a colonoscopy) , no more max lifetime limits and all kids get covered till mid 20's. Thats why any employer that offers healthcare the last two years saw their rate go viral (20-40% per year increases). The insurance companies are preditary by nature and use ObamanationCare as a great excuse to jack rates, while they could! Most insurance executives realize Obomantion is a one trick poney, BUT saw the opportunity that our idiot-in-chief presented them with. Like most smart executives, they now announce that these changes will remain in place even if ObomanationCare is repealed. The reason? Already built into the premium increases that happened over the past two years. How opportunistic, don't ya think? We'll never see a decrease in rates even after ObomanationCare is a bad memory! The Idiot-in-chief is certainly the gift that keeps on giving. The horrible foolish legacy he has created will be with us for years to come.
All other ongoing ObamanationCare actions relate to building bigger government (more IRS agents, creation of death panels, etc, etc, etc). I understand you barely made it through high school, and the stamps in your passport are quite impressive (in your own mind) , BUT. What stops you from getting educated on the issue? Lots of facts out there! You are retired on your sad union pension (whats up with that dude? No hindsight thoughts on the value of unions) , I suggest you get your facts straight before spouting off with more babble on socialism, vietnam, war, republicans, etc, etc, etc. I thought you wanted this thread closed? Better you remain silent and be thought a fool than open you mouth and remove all doubt!
Monger on Pelosi. Toymann.
Ps. I forgot, too poor to return to Argentina, disregard the monger on comment.
It just keeps getting worse. Obama has imposed new regulations to prevent rapes in prison. Cost of $7 billion dollars in red tape paperwork. Nothing actually done to prevent rapes. Just onerous beaurocratic red tape that will not prevent a single rape. And who does Obama think will pay for this nonsense. Birdbrain Obama probably thinks public sector jobs will pay for this. If Obama had a functioning brain cell he would realize that every cent of that wasted $7 billion dollars comes from the private sector. And now, gracias a Obama, the private sector has $7 billion dollars less available for hiring workers.
Of course, these new regulations pale in comparison to some of Obama's other ideas to stimulate the economy. For example, the Obama administration distributed $9 billion in economic “stimulus” funds to solar and wind projects in 2009-11 that created, as the end result, 910 “direct” jobs -- annual operation and maintenance positions -- meaning that it cost about $9.8 million to establish each of those long-term jobs.
Maybe we can convince Obama to join his wife on a world cruise to nowhere for the remainder of his first and only term.
Her speech in London yesterday was an inspiration of what politicains and government officials should be all about. No bitter self serving talk about her years of house arrest, she graciously compliments her former tormentors on the recent reforms and elections this year. It was all about the hopes of the people of Myamma for the future.
In comparison, our politicians look like a bunch of drug-dealers. Disregarding the welfare of it's citizens, they behave as sore losers, and we, the citizens, have to swollow the bickery, venom and the grandstanding.
Wild Walleye
06-22-12, 15:19
I haven't commented much in a long time, largely because I would just be repeating myself (and I have been living in a spiderhole in the desert. Not really).
This week has been great. There are only three words needed to understand the final nail in the coffin for the Obama presidency: Fast and Furious. The AG has already acknowledged that he is a habitual liar to Congress, while under oath. If he was a major league pitcher, he'd be behind bars by now. The use of EP by the WH this week is a giant red flag that the WH, at the highest levels, was involved in F&F. If that wasn't the case, they would have no problem throwing Holder under the bus (occupational hazard that they all accept). Therefore, it is just a matter of time before there is proof of complicity on the parts of both the WH and AG in over 2500 felonies (each of the 'walked' weapons allowed to cross the border) and the more than 300 Mexican deaths, and the death of Brian terry, at the hands of drug cartels utilizing Obama and Holder's assault weapons. If these two mass criminals were in the private sector, they would be on the receiving end of RICO prosecutions. This makes Watergate look like a Punch and Judy show.
Please don't respond with it started under Bush, it did not. Operation Wide Receiver was nothing like Fast and Furious and was shut down in 2007. Fast and Furious began in October 2009 and the feds involved made no effort to safeguard anyone or to track the weapons - in fact they took extraordinary steps to not track the weapons and to ensure that they made it unmolested into the hands of some of the most violent people on earth. The only thing they were doing was waiting to find the weapons at crime scenes. Ergo, the guns were provided for the purpose of facilitating violent crime. Please don't respond with CNN talking points, if you don't have your facts on this, save your breath.
Anyone involved in developing and executing this plan should be investigated and those responsible should be prosecuted, starting with Obama and Holder.
Obama will lose in November in a landslide due to the fall out from his miserable failure at everything during the past three years. He should be happy with that result. If reelected, he will be the second consecutive Democrat president to be impeached.
Gato Hunter
06-22-12, 15:32
If romney was prez I would not be alloweed to rehab from my strok in BA I would be snt to SLC for religious retraining. I can astill get a paycheckrehabing in BA under Obama LOL
Wild Walleye
06-22-12, 16:43
If romney was prez I would not be alloweed to rehab from my strok in BA I would be snt to SLC for religious retraining. I can astill get a paycheckrehabing in BA under Obama LOLYou can have all the wives you want. Now that we have all of the fallacious stereo types of Mormons out of the way.
As far as I know, there are no govt health benefits available to you or me today that weren't available to us in October 2008. Obamacare benefits won't kick in until '14, if it doesn't get shot down by the Supremes.
No matter our political differences, I wish you the speediest and naughtiest recovery, possible!
Member #4112
06-23-12, 11:53
WW, its multiple choice for what brings down the Obama administration: the economy, lack of jobs, foreign policy or lack thereof, F&F or the security leaks to make Obama look like a real tough guy.
Your right about one thing, Obama's extending executive privilege, questionable at best, to Holder and the DOJ only reinforces the perception of White House involvement at a level damaging to Obama. Add to this Pelosi's pathetic attempt to link the contempt charges with Holder's DOJ attempting to block voter I'd laws in several states, after the Supreme Court ruled such laws are constitutional, only adds credence to the impression Obama has something to hide. Remember Holder was the architect of the Mark Rich pardon under Clinton, who received large sums from Rich's wife for his presidential library, so what do you expect.
Now three years into Obama's presidency have serious fact checking of his prior books been undertaken with astonishing results. The man lied over and over in both his books, I'm sure this comes as a shock to some of you.
I agree with you WW, when the voting is over it will not be close, I only hope the Republicans take both the House and the Senate and that those elected will serve the interest of the nation as a whole, reign in spending and reduce both the Nanny State and the federal government in general. They can start with abolishing the EPA, Department of Energy and Education.
Greetings everyone,
I was searching the internet for information on Obama's management style and I came across this:
Ineptocracy.
(in-ep-toc'-ra-cy). A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.What I want to know from Esten, WT69 and the other liberals here is: What part of "the members of society least likely to sustain themselves...are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers" do you not understand?
Thanks,
Jackson
The only thing Fast and Furious about this story is Republican Darrell Issa's masturbating at the thought of being another hero for the GOP.
1.5 years, over 7000 documents released, 7 Congressional hearings with Holder, but Issa keeps trying to milk this story for negative media coverage. They keep bringing up the border patrol agent who was shot and killed, but the idea that Mexicans would not have obtained firearms without F&F is ludicrous.
This program had successes, but also flaws and therefore deserved investigation, but at this point it's become abundantly clear what Republican motivations are. Everytime I hear of this ongoing political witchhunt in the news, I am reminded what a negative influence the GOP is in this country.
Member #4112
06-23-12, 15:36
Esten as you rail against Issa you answer your own question, if there is nothing there then why not turn over the documents 1.5 years ago when they were first subpoenaed? If there is nothing there why has the president in the 11th hour tried to shield the documents via a very questionable use of executive privilege?
Any reasonable person would come to the conclusion there is something damaging there which may reach as far as the White House. What happened to Obama's promise of an open and transparent administration, or is it only to be open and transparent when the mood suits Obama or is to his benefit?
Of course the cartels will continue to secure arms, that is not the point. The point is our government facilitated arming them with a seriously flawed program which was seeking to snare an FBI informant who was then shielded.
Have you become so callow, callous and uncaring that the loss a law enforcement officer's life has no meaning when caused by weapons provided by his own government? I can assure you his life had meaning to him and his family; it was as precious to him as YOURS IS TO YOU.
Esten you should rethink that argument, it is not some place you want to go.
Canitasguy
06-23-12, 22:54
(O)ur government facilitated arming them with a seriously flawed program . (does) the loss a(n) officer's life ha(ve) no meaning when caused by weapons provided by his own government?Yep Doppel. The points are damning. Especially as they describe Reagan's "seriously flawed" programs throught the 1980s of giving al Qaeda and the Talibans tens of millions of dollars worth of arms including stinger missiles and selling Saddam tens of millions in all kinds of arms including chemical and biological materials.
In the first case, Cheney and Rumsfled were fighting an ill-conceived proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan and in the second one against Iran.
Those very same weapons were used two decades later to kill and maim American troops.
Seems a bit more serious than "Fast and Furious". More like "Slow and Deadly".
Texas Tornado
06-23-12, 23:01
The only thing Fast and Furious about this story is Republican Darrell Issa's masturbating at the thought of being another hero for the GOP.
1. 5 years, over 7000 documents released. 7 Congressional hearings with Holder, but Issa keeps trying to milk this story for negative media coverage. They keep bringing up the border patrol agent who was shot and killed, but the idea that Mexicans would not have obtained firearms without F&F is ludicrous.
This program had successes, but also flaws and therefore deserved investigation, but at this point it's become abundantly clear what Republican motivations are. Everytime I hear of this ongoing political witchhunt in the news, I am reminded what a negative influence the GOP is in this country.You are so blinded by your own dogma.
Punter 127
06-24-12, 12:47
The only thing Fast and Furious about this story is Republican Darrell Issa's masturbating at the thought of being another hero for the GOP.
1. 5 years, over 7000 documents released. 7 Congressional hearings with Holder, but Issa keeps trying to milk this story for negative media coverage. They keep bringing up the border patrol agent who was shot and killed, but the idea that Mexicans would not have obtained firearms without F&F is ludicrous.
This program had successes, but also flaws and therefore deserved investigation, but at this point it's become abundantly clear what Republican motivations are. Everytime I hear of this ongoing political witchhunt in the news, I am reminded what a negative influence the GOP is in this country.Go tell your Bull Shit to the Brain Terry family. Your post is complete 'word salad', you are hopelessly confused!
It just keeps getting better. First Bill Clinton slides a wet sloppy brown on Obama's face claiming Obama doesn't have the intelligence to add 2 and 2. Now Carter is pissing all over Obama.
I can understand why Clinton and Carter have had enough of that birdbrain imposter Obama. What I can't understand is why anyone with an IQ higher than their shoesize still supports Obama.
WorldTravel69
06-25-12, 23:47
The Conservative press keeps saying the lack of jobs is Obama's fault. But if he tries to create jobs they say that he is raising the Debt.
But the way to create jobs would have to be by the 1%ers.
The Charts show that the Corporations are making millions by not creating jobs.
Romney said if he was president he would not send jobs out of the country. Making it sound like it was Obama's fault. He was the pioneer in sending jobs out of the country.
Also, here something about the super pacs.
http://www.sfgate.com/default/article/Reich-Super-PACs-must-face-accountability-3637364.php
The Charts show that the Corporations are making millions by not creating jobs.Probably more like billions in profits, not millions. Of course if you dare to criticize corporations, Republicans will say you're "anti-business".
Chronological Listing of Agents Killed in Line of Duty:
www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/border_security/border_patrol/border_patrol_officer_memorial/chron_listing_agents/
These stats show a couple things:
- Border agents are killed every year.
- The year agent Terry was killled (2010) , the number of agents killed (3) was not disproportionate vs. previous years.
What happened to agent Terry was unfortunate, but there is no evidence he would be alive today without F&F. The stats show his death was part of a normal baseline for this type of job.
The F&F investigation isn't focused on how he was killed, but on "who knew what, when". Even if the point was to make sure this doesn't happen again, everybody including Holder agrees the program had flaws and shouldn't happen again. So what's left? Nothing more than a witchhunt for political purposes. By the logic expressed here, Issa could keep asking for more and more documents for years, and if someone then questioned whether enough was enough, we'd hear "How callous, what about poor agent Terry?"
Most people and their dog are now seeing the F&F "investigation" for the political dog and pony show it has become. It's backfiring and is now a negative for the GOP.
What I want to know from Esten, WT69 and the other liberals here is: What part of "the members of society least likely to sustain themselves.are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers" do you not understand?Jackson, please provide a listing of these rewards, so we can have a look at them.
Thank you.
The Charts show that the Corporations are making millions by not creating jobsThe next time I want an economics lecture from a high school graduate (maybe) union worker or his wild-ass liberal side kick, please shoot me where I stand. Of course, large corproations don't create jobs in tough times or even great times. New Flash for you two, in America, job creation has always been drivien by small business! Obamanation hates free enterprise, capitalism and business in total, especially small business. Getting rid of this clown will go a long way to release the pent up aspect of our economy related to small business. LIKE THIS IS NEW NEWS? IALOTFLMAO! You two are a match made in heavan. What planet have you lived on the last half century? My only consolation is that WT69 is too destitute to travel to BA for great pussy (what happened to your union pension dude) and Esten is most likely not far off as hasn't been to BA in recent memory. Tick! Tick! Tick! Just remember ol'Toymann called this deal over a year ago. We'll get this straight in novemeber, and my boy Romney will get us back on track. Happy Mongering All. Toymann
I normally do not get involved in political discussions on this board, but Toyman's post sounds like an angry old white man who likes to brag about what he has at the expense of others. Personally attacking someone for their opinion rather than the substance of the opinion is very characteristic of Republican political speech today and is totally uncivilized. Next time Toyman grow-up and logically rebut the opinion and don't vilify the person. It will add more weight to your argument.
Toyman and his like-minded friends have forgotten who got us into the economic mess-"W" and his ilk. None of the Republican players who profited the most from the economic meltdown suffered any significant economic loss or any loss at all. If Romney is elected and the same short-sighted, economically challenged Republican legislators are returned to power and the "W" team reinstalled, the economy will tank just like it did under Hoover and the Republicans will become a marginal political party.
The CDOs and SWAPS and other sophisticated debt obligations were just as responsible for the financial problems as the housing bubble. Witness the recent JP Morgan fiasco. Two wars, one of which was unnecessary and manufactured, which were almost totally paid for with borrowed money has contributed to most of the current deficit. Historically, the greatest additions to the national debt were incurred during two Republican presidencies, RRR and "W". The current Republican fixation on the national debt wants to ignore the very public statement by Chaney that "deficits do not matter". He should know. He was present and participated in the creation of over 12 trillion dollars of the current US debt while in the administrations of RRR and "W".
There must overtime be a combination of revenue enhancement and spending reduction, but you cannot sacrifice the future to pay for the past. No modern economic theorist believes that reduced public spending during a recession will enhance economic growth. The austerity program for Europe, similar to the Ryan proposal, will be a disaster for the Euro Zone. We will have a laboratory to examine the economic veracity of the Ryan Plan in Europe and will be able to determine its effectiveness in expanding economic growth and reducing government debt.
WorldTravel69
06-26-12, 11:54
While working for my employer masters, I managed to get a College Degree.
I guess you did not see the Chart about the Market growth. Looks like he must be a bad commie.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/04/05/obama-signs-small-business-legislation/
If O'Romney gets back in, there goes more jobs, stripped and or sent out of the Country.
P.S.
I forgot to mention that I was in Nicaragua checking out the chicas and making a List for the Guys, in January. That is one reason I have not been to Buenos Aires.
Oh Yes, Please stop smoking those Cow Chips.
Obamanation hates free enterprise, capitalism and business in total, especially small business.
Personally attacking someone for their opinion rather than the substance of the opinion is very characteristic of Republican political speech today and is totally uncivilized. Next time Toyman grow-up and logically rebut the opinion and don't vilify the person.
Uncivilized. IALOTFLMAO! This is the political thread and there is very little civilized about it! I have known WT69 and Esten for a long time now and although our politics are very different we can sit down and have a beer most days without any issue what so ever. I searched your posts and it's just been a while since you swooped in to defend Chanel, TL, etc. Etc. Too funny. Suggest a 3 year newbie like you get off of this thread as you just don't have the stomach for it. Roaring idiot. It comes as little surprise that the "it's all W's fault" nonsense is your point of view. Suggest you research the deregulation of the housing market. You'll find it occurred in the 90's and furthermore the devil W tried to alert the liberals that Fanny and Freddy were in big trouble in his last two years of his term BUT, when guese who was in power. Oh I forgot, how could a neanderthal like me discuss politics with a "free thinkre" like you. Back into your hole silly boy. Neither WT69 or Esten are ever offended by my posts. It's all in fun you prickly dork! Happy Mongering All. Toymann
Member #4112
06-26-12, 14:33
Permit me to make a few comments on the foregoing posts today.
Esten:
Your response was pretty much what I would expect. You resort to numbers to dehumanize Terry and attempt to trivialize his death. I now ask you to prove Terry would still have been killed if the weapons used had not been available, your turn to prove a negative my friend. Somehow I doubt you would take the same cavalier attitude if it were your life we are talking about here, now would you.
Your response reflects you have never been 'in the trenches' but only 'armchair quarterback' from a point of safety.
F&F is about many things, one of which is Terry's death via weapons supplied by his own government. Another aspect of the investigation is lying to a Congressional Committee. Liberals love to use this against others but whine and complain when the tables are turned, as is the case with Holder. Obama did not do himself any favors by invoking presidential privilege as this will only increases the perception by the public of a cover-up.
WT69:
Unions have withered in the private sector even in states with pro-union laws. The reason is they can no longer compete and even in states with pro-union laws when the membership is given the opportunity to cease paying dues they flee in large numbers. Now the same is beginning to occur in the government sector and it will continue as the people who have to pay the bill demand changes.
What I thing you miss here is that JP Morgan Chase lost privately invested capital for which they have been penalized by the market place while Obama gives away taxpayers money to his chorines with wild abandon.
I thing the principal point both Esten and you miss here is both corporations and private citizens funds belongs to them and not to the government. They earned it and they should have the right to determine how they spend it.
Member #4112
06-26-12, 14:35
President Obama has now decided to rule by presidential fiat.
Earlier this year Obama clearly stated he could not circumvent statute law regarding immigration issues such as the 'Dream' act as it would be illegal and we lived in a country of laws. Witness his last presidential decree in which he reverses himself in an attempt to sway Hispanic voters to his cause.
If this was such a pressing issue, why did Obama fail to have it passed in his first two years in office when the Dem's had a lock on both the House and the Senate?
After the Supreme Court upheld a key portion of the Arizona law, what does Obama do? He cuts Arizona out of a cooperative agreement between the states and the fed and informs Arizona don't count on the Fed to come get the illegals they find as the Fed is going to get much more restrictive as to who they will accept and not accept. Looks pretty much like a temper tantrum by Obama after losing a key point with the court. I just can't wait to see how he reacts when ObamaCare is struck down.
WorldTravel69
06-26-12, 16:12
Here why Obama did not get it passed.
It is called Filibuster by the Republicans.
http://www.worldcorrespondents.com/dream-act-2010-republican-filibuster-vote-won/8811543
President Obama has now decided to rule by presidential fiat.
Earlier this year Obama clearly stated he could not circumvent statute law regarding immigration issues such as the 'Dream' act as it would be illegal and we lived in a country of laws. Witness his last presidential decree in which he reverses himself in an attempt to sway Hispanic voters to his cause.
If this was such a pressing issue, why did Obama fail to have it passed in his first two years in office when the Dem's had a lock on both the House and the Senate?
After the Supreme Court upheld a key portion of the Arizona law, what does Obama do? He cuts Arizona out of a cooperative agreement between the states and the fed and informs Arizona don't count on the Fed to come get the illegals they find as the Fed is going to get much more restrictive as to who they will accept and not accept. Looks pretty much like a temper tantrum by Obama after losing a key point with the court. I just can't wait to see how he reacts when ObamaCare is struck down.
WorldTravel69
06-26-12, 16:40
It started in 2005. Guess who was in office. Why isn't Congress questioning anyone in Bush's Term?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gunrunner
Permit me to make a few comments on the foregoing posts today.
Esten:
Your response was pretty much what I would expect. You resort to numbers to dehumanize Terry and attempt to trivialize his death. I now ask you to prove Terry would still have been killed if the weapons used had not been available, your turn to prove a negative my friend. Somehow I doubt you would take the same cavalier attitude if it were your life we are talking about here, now would you.
Your response reflects you have never been 'in the trenches' but only 'armchair quarterback' from a point of safety.
F&F is about many things, one of which is Terry's death via weapons supplied by his own government. Another aspect of the investigation is lying to a Congressional Committee. Liberals love to use this against others but whine and complain when the tables are turned, as is the case with Holder. Obama did not do himself any favors by invoking presidential privilege as this will only increases the perception by the public of a cover-up.
WT69:
Unions have withered in the private sector even in states with pro-union laws. The reason is they can no longer compete and even in states with pro-union laws when the membership is given the opportunity to cease paying dues they flee in large numbers. Now the same is beginning to occur in the government sector and it will continue as the people who have to pay the bill demand changes.
What I thing you miss here is that JP Morgan Chase lost privately invested capital for which they have been penalized by the market place while Obama gives away taxpayers money to his chorines with wild abandon.
I thing the principal point both Esten and you miss here is both corporations and private citizens funds belongs to them and not to the government. They earned it and they should have the right to determine how they spend it.
Yes, you are right. The Union's are losing members, because of things Romney and his like minded cronies have done. Buy a company, strip it down, sell off the assets, lay off all the Workers and send what is left to be done by non-Union workers Overseas.
So, goes the middle class.
Member #4112
06-26-12, 18:18
WT69, the program run under Bush was a totally different program than F&F.
If the Democrats did not investigate it when they took over in 1/1/09 it appears obvious there was nothing to investigate or they would have been all over it.
The Democrats had a filibuster proof hold on the senate in the first two years beginning in 2009, can you say Arlan Specter?
They passed pretty much whatever they wanted telling the Republicans to sit down and shut up. How quickly you seem to forget!
They didn't pass it because they didn't care about it then. Now Obama is willing to reverse his statements from March and violate statute law via presidential fait, it will be reversed but it takes time to run through the court system and Obama knows this.
So what else would I expect from a person who lies at every turn. Now they are playing the 'race' card but I don't think it's going to get much traction.
Romney has nothing to do with the union's demise; they have done it to themselves. Today unions seem to live in some alternate universe where labor costs don't matter in the production and marketing of goods. They just don't compete well today. I guess the new restriction against unions out on the left coast is because of Romney?
Face it my friend the unions killed themselves and have now over reached again and lost on the public sector. The people who pay the bills just will not put up with it anymore and it has nothing to do with Romney.
Addendum.
What the hell are you doing down there. Say "Hello," to Daniel for me
WorldTravel69
06-27-12, 12:39
This video shows Project Gunrunner was at fault for Terry's death.
http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7357550n
I do not recommend Nicaragua. Managua anyway. Granada is worth a visit, but not for mongering.
WT69, the program run under Bush was a totally different program than F&F.
If the Democrats did not investigate it when they took over in 1/1/09 it appears obvious there was nothing to investigate or they would have been all over it.
The Democrats had a filibuster proof hold on the senate in the first two years beginning in 2009, can you say Arlan Specter?
They passed pretty much whatever they wanted telling the Republicans to sit down and shut up. How quickly you seem to forget!
They didn't pass it because they didn't care about it then. Now Obama is willing to reverse his statements from March and violate statute law via presidential fait, it will be reversed but it takes time to run through the court system and Obama knows this.
So what else would I expect from a person who lies at every turn. Now they are playing the 'race' card but I don't think it's going to get much traction.
Romney has nothing to do with the union's demise; they have done it to themselves. Today unions seem to live in some alternate universe where labor costs don't matter in the production and marketing of goods. They just don't compete well today. I guess the new restriction against unions out on the left coast is because of Romney?
Face it my friend the unions killed themselves and have now over reached again and lost on the public sector. The people who pay the bills just will not put up with it anymore and it has nothing to do with Romney.
Addendum.
What the hell are you doing down there. Say "Hello," to Daniel for me
Member #4112
06-27-12, 18:54
WT69, was the clip you posted accurate, well sort of but not really and here is why. F&F was an operation begun and run under the Obama administration. It was one of several operations under the original Bush ATF initiated known as Project Gunrunner. The weapon which killed Officer Terry was part of F&F which everyone now knows went haywire by letting over 2, 000 weapons "walk" across the border.
Here is the full story on Project Gunrunner and the ATF opertion known as F&F which was initated by the Obama administration under the overall umbrella of Project Gunrunner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gunrunner
WorldTravel69
06-27-12, 22:58
Read what Fortune Magazine says.
http://features.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2012/06/27/fast-and-furious-truth/?iid=SF_F_MPM
WT69, was the clip you posted accurate, well sort of but not really and here is why. F&F was an operation begun and run under the Obama administration. It was one of several operations under the original Bush ATF initiated known as Project Gunrunner. The weapon which killed Officer Terry was part of F&F which everyone now knows went haywire by letting over 2, 000 weapons "walk" across the border.
Here is the full story on Project Gunrunner and the ATF opertion known as F&F which was initated by the Obama administration under the overall umbrella of Project Gunrunner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Gunrunner
Speaker Boehner today said that F&F was responsible for hundreds of deaths (unproven bs), and that the Administration was guilty of lying to Congress (unproven bs). I used to have a little respect for Boehner, but after this political speech it may all be gone.
On this board as well, Doppel still playing the sympathy card for agent Terry, even though as I previously posted there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he would not have been shot without F&F.
As proof positive the F&F sympathy card is a mere political ploy, ask any Republican about the 45,000 people who die in the US each year because they lack health insurance.
Speaker Boehner today said that.the Administration was guilty of lying to Congress (unproven bs).We don't know one way or the other because Holder is withholding the documents that would settle the issue.
As proof positive the F&F sympathy card is a mere political ploy, ask any Republican about the 45,000 people who die in the US each year because they lack health insurance.Are you referring to the 45,000 people who failed to exercise personal responsibility and buy their own health insurance?
The Supreme Court upheld Milt Romney's Health Care "individual mandate". Now, you just have to do your civic duty, and pay for it with a smile. Perhaps, you might have to sacrifice one visit to the local massage parlour.
The Supreme Court upheld Milt Romney's Health Care "individual mandate". Now, you just have to do your civic duty, and pay for it with a smile. Perhaps, you might have to sacrifice one visit to the local massage parlour.Once again, no comparison.
No, not the same thing.
Obamacare was rammed up America's ass by an incredibly narrow vote of 50. 3% of Congress, and without a single vote from any congressional representatives outside the Democratic party. The voting was so narrow that Democratic Party leaders couldn't even risk sending their own bill back to the Senate where it would have been voted down, and instead they passed the old version passed by the Senate just prior to Scott Brown's election.
On the other hand.
The health care law passed in Massachusetts was supported overwhelmingly in the MA legislature with 198 house reps supporting the bill and only 2 voting against it – 99% voting in favor of the plan! The bill also passed through the state senate without a single dissenting vote.
The difference is that Gov. Romney and the Massachusetts legislature worked together and crafted a health bill that had the support of an overwhelming majority of the people of Massachusetts.
I believe that Obama and the Democrats should have done the same thing for the American people by working to create a bill that more Americans could have supported, but that would have required real leadership, something that Obama is completely lacking.
Once again, I apologize for letting the facts destroy a common liberal rant.
Thanks,
JacksonIf ObamaCare had been passed by 99% of the members of the US Congress, I would have little to say about it's legitimacy.
Jeez this gets repetive.
Maybe I need to catalog these standard rebuttals so I can just refer to them by number.
Jackson
I can understand Justice Robert's perspective.
If it walks like a tax and it quacks like a tax, then it's a tax, and the government has the power to tax.
That's not how ObamaCare was sold, but there it is.
Now there's only one way to kill this monstrosity.
Of course, Obama no longer deny that he's levied a new tax on the back of every American worker.
Thanks,
Jackson
Except it's not a tax on the back of every American worker. It's a wealth transfer program and anyone making up to 400% of the poverty level will come out ahead, most likely. And 400% of the poverty level ($10, 890 x 4 = $43, 520 in 2011) corresponds roughly to the average wage per worker in 2010 ($41, 673. 83 per the Social Security website). Also, one of the ways it is funded is with a tax that definitely falls only on the rich: the Medicare tax on investment income.
What's fun about this stuff is that the IRS always says X% of income and not X% of assets. That makes it real easy to manipulate. This law benefits early retirees such as myself and therefore I favor it. I think it will favor a lot of us, if we do our research. At the very least it should be easy to get the subsidy every OTHER year, if you are living off your prior savings. The way the law defined "income" for the purpose of comparing it to the poverty level was also very favorable to early retirees.
We don't know one way or the other because Holder is withholding the documents that would settle the issue.Then Boehner is out of line for making such accusations.
Are you referring to the 45,000 people who failed to exercise personal responsibility and buy their own health insurance?No - the 45,000 people who could not afford health insurance or were denied coverage because of a pre-existing condition.
Now the confirmed law of the land.
It would be a waste of energy to keep staying mad about this (if one ever was).
The fact is the vast majority of people already have insurance, and will not be affected by the mandate (i.e., won't be loosing any 'freedom'). For those required to buy insurance or pay a fine, it will be according to their means to pay. Conservatives should appreciate that many who were freeloading the system will now have to contribute. And those wanting to have insurance should be able to get it at a more affordable price. That helps folks who don't work for large companies, including entrepreneurs.
There are plenty of good things about the new law. Few people are going to find their lives adversely affected. Most will experience little effect. Many will experience a positive effect.
Now the confirmed law of the land.
It would be a waste of energy to keep staying mad about this (if one ever was).Only 70% of american hate this stupidity Esten. In novemeber, the house stays GOP, the senate goes GOP. and Romney is president and January 1st? Good riddence to bad rubbish no room for bad cabbage! Just because it's not against the law doesn't mean it's NOT a total cluster F*CK! Bye Bye Obamacare. Like today even mattered! IALOTFLMAO! Monger On Dude. Toymann.
Ps. Have you already forgotten the Liberal slaughter in the mid-terms. What was that about Esten. Please elaborate? Enquiring minds want to know!
Pps. Wanna bet? LOL. I already asked you long ago dude. You have been silent! IALOTFLMAO!
WorldTravel69
06-29-12, 11:56
It is about time we care for all the people and not just the Rich.
These are Countries with Health Care and one State in the U.S. The Mandate is part of Massachusetts' law. And the law works.
Afghanistan, Argentina, Austria, Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, China, Cuba, Costa Rica, Cyprus, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Greece, Iraq, Iceland, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Japan, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Oman, Portugal, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Spain, Sweden, South Korea, Sri Lanka, Ukraine and the United Kingdom.
I don't know enough about health care to know the solution to our problems, but Obamacare is not it. The USA spends 17% of GDP on health care, and that's going to go up under Obamacare. This is ridiculous and is going to bankrupt the country. Some here believe this is just fine because the wealthy are going to pay for it, via additional taxes which, when added to all the rest, will be over 50% on interest income and over 70% on corporate income distributed through dividends in places like New York and California (lower in states that don't have income tax). Actually, Dickhead et al, you may be right, this may work out just fine for you, as there's a good chance you'll be dead before the country goes bankrupt. You can take everything the rich have and you won't solve the country's problems. Given that in the process you're going to take away funds that would be used for investment to grow the economy, you're just going to make things worse.
No other country in the world spends over 12% of GDP on health care. Many have better outcomes than the USA. Obamacare is doing nothing significant to address this and is going to make the problem worse. Again, I don't know much about health care, but when compared to a place like Singapore, the USA system looks ridiculously inefficient. Singapore spends about 3% or 4% of GDP on health care. People live longer. There's universal health care. They have HSA accounts and when they receive medical care they have to pay for it, or at least for large part of it. The government or the insurance company isn't paying 100%. So the system works efficiently, people spend their money wisely and get quality and value for their money, just as we do in the U.S. for things like cosmetic and corrective eye surgery that aren't covered by insurance or government.
Member #4112
06-29-12, 13:04
The Difference in the Republican & Democrat Parties.
As the healthcare debate unfolded during the arguments before the Supreme Court, Democrats immediately began bashing the Supreme Court as 'partisan', 'unelected', it was not their place to overturn legislation by duly elected officials and all sorts of venomous attackes on their characters and ability to arbitrate the case before them.
That was then and this is now, what a difference a day makes. Now those same Democrats who loudly debased the court are now singing its praises since they 'won'.
The Republicans on the other hand, having been deemed to have 'lost' the case have accepted the ruling without invective or rancor but with respect to the rule of law.
The contrast between the Republican and Democrat Parties could not be more stark, one adheres to and respects the rule of law the other does not. This conduct is evident in every level of the Democratic machine from a president who wishes to rule by fait regardless of statute law, to an attorney general who believes he is above the law and refuses to accept the legal oversight of Congress.
Homework.
It must be humiliating for congressional democrats to have their homework corrected by the Supreme Court. The lawmakers charged with making the laws failed to understand the difference between the 'commerce clause' and the ability to levy 'taxes'. It must also be humiliating for the president who is a 'legal scholar' having taught constitutional law to be unable to discern the definition of a TAX.
The true arbitrators of this case will be the voters and they will cast their vote in November. As Chief Justice Roberts said, they do not comment on the wisdom of the laws but leave that to the people who elect the officials who enact them.
Speaker Boehner today said that F&F was responsible for hundreds of deaths (unproven bs) , and that the Administration was guilty of lying to Congress (unproven bs). I used to have a little respect for Boehner, but after this political speech it may all be gone.
On this board as well, Doppel still playing the sympathy card for agent Terry, even though as I previously posted there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that he would not have been shot without F&F.
As proof positive the F&F sympathy card is a mere political ploy, ask any Republican about the 45, 000 people who die in the US each year because they lack health insurance.A couple of points I would like to make Esten:
1. I'm not playing the "sympathy card" merely stating the obvious regarding Terry and you have absolutely no proof Terry would have died had the guns from F&F not been there. Prove the negative my friend; it's what you demand of us all the time. You're pretty glib with other's lives and deaths.
2. Now you're stating the dastardly Republicans are letting 45, 000 people die each year from lack of healthcare insurance? Not sure where you got this number but why aren't you up in arms about the 32, 885 who died in traffic accidents or the 569, 490 Americans who died of cancer in 2010, the latest year with available information?
WorldTravel69
06-29-12, 16:31
This chart is old, but it shows that these Countries are low because they have Universal Health Care, except ours. Once we get our Health System under control, it should go down.
Here is some info on why our costs are so high.
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/2011/11/why-does-healthcare-cost-so-much.html
I don't know enough about health care to know the solution to our problems, but Obamacare is not it. The USA spends 17% of GDP on health care, and that's going to go up under Obamacare. This is ridiculous and is going to bankrupt the country. Some here believe this is just fine because the wealthy are going to pay for it, via additional taxes which, when added to all the rest, will be over 50% on interest income and over 70% on corporate income distributed through dividends in places like New York and California (lower in states that don't have income tax). Actually, Dickhead et al, you may be right, this may work out just fine for you, as there's a good chance you'll be dead before the country goes bankrupt. You can take everything the rich have and you won't solve the country's problems. Given that in the process you're going to take away funds that would be used for investment to grow the economy, you're just going to make things worse.
No other country in the world spends over 12% of GDP on health care. Many have better outcomes than the USA. Obamacare is doing nothing significant to address this and is going to make the problem worse. Again, I don't know much about health care, but when compared to a place like Singapore, the USA system looks ridiculously inefficient. Singapore spends about 3% or 4% of GDP on health care. People live longer. There's universal health care. They have HSA accounts and when they receive medical care they have to pay for it, or at least for large part of it. The government or the insurance company isn't paying 100. So the system works efficiently, people spend their money wisely and get quality and value for their money, just as we do in the USA for things like cosmetic and corrective eye surgery that aren't covered by insurance or government.
WT69, Please see Table 5 on page 33 of the following:
https://www.cms.gov/Research-Statistics-Data-and-Systems/Research/ActuarialStudies/downloads/S_PPACA_2009-12-10.pdf
Obama's own Department of Health & Human Services forecasts the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act will marginally increase health care expenditures. They predict we'll be paying 21% of GDP for health care in 2019.
We started 2008 with financial chaos, and issues as how to stimulate the economy. When healthcare reforms were introduced, it was under a hostile enviroment. It was socialism or communism vs capitalism. Too much shouting and yelling, there was no dialogue. Except for a small minority, everybody agreed that the healthcare system is broken, but politics has not allowed us to proceed. It is called gridlock, so now, we have another broken system. You can point your fingers, eventually, it will come back to you.
Since we outsorce everything in America, including our factories, it is my hope that the US health insurers will outsource healthcare as an option. I don't know why it has not happen yet, for me, it is a no-brainer when it come down to costs. It will benefit all of us who resides overseas 90% of the time.
WorldTravel69
06-30-12, 12:55
Is it greed that they charge you $28 for a box of Kleenex in the hospital? Or is it just Capitalism at work.
Member #4112
06-30-12, 13:08
WT69 it's called "Cost Shifting" where hospitals and other institutions shift the cost of providing care for those who don't pay for it to those who do. As we have forced health insitutions of all types to accept anyone who walks in the door without respect to ability to pay the amount of "free" service has increased and therefore the cost shifting has increased to the point you just made.
This is what ObamaCare is going to do to healthcare costs in the US as the cost of securing healthcare will be "shifited" to those who can pay. Just like the federal welfare system, the people will quickly find how to game the system to their benefit shifiting even more of the costs to those who play by the rules. This does not even take into account malpractice reform which is another driver of the rise in healthcare costs as physicians and institutions are forced to practice "defensive medicine"
WorldTravel69
07-01-12, 03:02
How do you feel about yourself?
Are you a real American?
Skip the soap love part at the start, but the rest of message, should make you THINK About Your Believes.
http://www.hbo.com/#/the-newsroom
WorldTravel69
07-01-12, 17:05
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI7Oq8y-jXA
How do you feel about yourself?
Are you a real American?
Skip the soap love part at the start, but the rest of message, should make you THINK About Your Believes.
http://www.hbo.com/#/the-newsroom
WorldTravel69
07-03-12, 01:16
Romney's speech on Health Care.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GL6Sw_U1gk
Cats got your tonguesOops, pardon me, I've viewed the clip of the Newsroom, as well as your previous link to a Bill Maher segment. I have decided that from now on instead of thinking with my head I will go with whatever HBO and Hollywood promote. They're so much more entertaining than dry statistics.
I have nothing against universal health care. What I do have something against is a health care system that's going to eat up 21% of the economy by the end of the decade. And even more after that. Before Romneycare went into effect only 6% of the Massachusetts population was uninsured. It was Obamacare on a much smaller scale. But still health care costs in Massachusetts have risen and now consume over 50% of that state's budget. While some criticize Romney for not being consistent, I'd sure as hell rather have someone as President who learns from his mistakes and adjusts to make things work, instead of an idealist who will remain on the same path forever, regardless of outcomes.
You have a point though. Neither party appears to be serious about getting costs under control. Gary Johnson for President?
Don't look now but we are in a recession or soon will be. Not surprising considering our commander in chief couldn't run a lemonaide stand much less an economy.
I agree with Bill Clinton and the mayor of Newark who, although professing to be Obama supporters, both claim that Obama's attacks on Romneys business accomplishments emphasize Obama's appalling ignorance of economics.
WorldTravel69
07-03-12, 12:13
That this site is mainly for men.
It would interesting to hear what women think about the USA health care.
I do not know what is covered is Socialized Medicine countries, but I know in the USA that coverage for Cancer, and (Breast Cancer) isn't enough.
Ask my sister. After she used what medical coverage she had, she had to use all her retirement savings.
Maybe the Affordable Health Act will help others, men and women with cancer.
Oops, pardon me, I've viewed the clip of the Newsroom, as well as your previous link to a Bill Maher segment. I have decided that from now on instead of thinking with my head I will go with whatever HBO and Hollywood promote. They're so much more entertaining than dry statistics.
I have nothing against universal health care. What I do have something against is a health care system that's going to eat up 21% of the economy by the end of the decade. And even more after that. Before Romneycare went into effect only 6% of the Massachusetts population was uninsured. It was Obamacare on a much smaller scale. But still health care costs in Massachusetts have risen and now consume over 50% of that state's budget. While some criticize Romney for not being consistent, I'd sure as hell rather have someone as President who learns from his mistakes and adjusts to make things work, instead of an idealist who will remain on the same path forever, regardless of outcomes.
You have a point though. Neither party appears to be serious about getting costs under control. Gary Johnson for President?
WorldTravel69
07-04-12, 02:51
You may want to learn some history.
This is not true, but it is what they thought would happen then, is happening now, now.
Funny this was in 1936.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0027996/
As the economy sinks into recession Romney stated, without a telepromptor. 'it doesn't have to be this way'
Well, get used to it. As long as Obama is in office we will have unacceptable unemployment, unacceptable underemployment and job killing regulations and taxes. Does this bother Obama? Of course not. Obama does not have a clue how economies function or how much misery his birdbrain economic policies are causing. Furthermore, Obama is probably astonished that he was elected president with absolutely no experience, a 1.7 GPA in college, unable to speak coherently without a telepromptor and the IQ of a chipmunk (whoops, forget being born in indonesia / kenya). Obama probably thinks we got what we deserved and he is right. Shame on all those simpletons that were duped by hope and change.
As the economy sinks into recession Romney stated, without a telepromptor. 'it doesn't have to be this way'
Well, get used to it. As long as Obama is in office we will have unacceptable unemployment, unacceptable underemployment and job killing regulations and taxes. Does this bother Obama? Of course not. Obama does not have a clue how economies function or how much misery his birdbrain economic policies are causing. Furthermore, Obama is probably astonished that he was elected president with absolutely no experience, a 1. 7 GPA in college, unable to speak coherently without a telepromptor and the IQ of a chipmunk (whoops, forget being born in indonesia / kenya). Obama probably thinks we got what we deserved and he is right. Shame on all those simpletons that were duped by hope and change.You don't want to die a slow death just in case the simpletons multiply enough for Obama to hang around 4 more years. You sound like someone having a dry run, pumping all night with no release.
You don't want to die a slow death just in case the simpletons multiply enough for Obama to hang around 4 more years. You sound like someone having a dry run, pumping all night with no release.Good grief. It is possible that that we will have 4 more years of Obama. 4 more years of economic stagnation. If that is the will of the people, so be it.
Obama is not a bad person. I am convinced that Obama is doing the best he can. Watching Obama is similar to watching Pee Wee Herman trying to hit a Sandy Koufax slider. Obama is way out of his league.
Good grief. It is possible that that we will have 4 more years of Obama. 4 more years of economic stagnation. If that is the will of the people, so be it.
Obama is not a bad person. I am convinced that Obama is doing the best he can. Watching Obama is similar to watching Pee Wee Herman trying to hit a Sandy Koufax slider. Obama is way out of his league.This is what I will do for you, I will set up a sucide hotline. Obama has at least a 50% of winning, so it could easily happen. Pee Wee Herman look like he is pretty quick, he could bunt and beat the throw to 1st base.
Just remember what yogi berra said. He said he could understand how sandy koufax won 25 games. What he couldn't understand is how he lost 4 games.
Matt Psyche
07-07-12, 14:41
Unrelated to the issue, so it would be brief. First, it is "Hara"-kiri. Secondly Hara-kiri is not a sucide to escape from an unbearable condition. I wouldn't bore you by explaining what it is about. BTW, I always like your posts.
You don't want to die a slow death just in case the simpletons multiply enough for Obama to hang around 4 more years. You sound like someone having a dry run, pumping all night with no release.
WorldTravel69
07-07-12, 22:05
Yes, Black Men did have a hard time getting into the game.
I wonder why that is?
It wasn't because they couldn't play the game, nobody would let them.
Good grief. It is possible that that we will have 4 more years of Obama. 4 more years of economic stagnation. If that is the will of the people, so be it.
Obama is not a bad person. I am convinced that Obama is doing the best he can. Watching Obama is similar to watching Pee Wee Herman trying to hit a Sandy Koufax slider. Obama is way out of his league.
A few predictions for what they are worth.
1) Obama is going to dump Biden. Obama and Biden have become synonomous with Laurel and Hardy, Amos and Andy, dumb and dumber. However, if Obama cannot dump biden, god help the Obama / Biden ticket. The logical replacement for Biden would be Hilary Clinton but Hillary and Obama probably hate each others guts. Furthermore, the world would begin listening to Bill and Hillary Clinton rather than Obama. There is a cliff separating the abilities of the Clinton's and the abilites of Obama. Not so with Biden. With biden it is dumb and dumber and take your pick who is dumb and who is dumber - Obama or Biden.
2) the immense advantage in campaign funds that Obama enjoyed in 2008 is gone. Expect Romney to get the message across that 'it doesn't have to be this way'. We can do better.
3) At the end of the day. I think Jimmy Carter would be a more viable candidate than Obama. At least Jimmy Carter ran a peanut farm and had a brother who produced billy beer. Obama has yet to sell his first glass of lemonaide from his solar powered, wind assisted, now bankrupt lemonaide stand. All paid for by guess who. Think simpletons who, gracias a lobotomies, bought into Obama's hope and change. now known as hope to change who is in the white house.
WorldTravel69
07-10-12, 04:03
Stop the Bitching and Winning.
What is O"Romney's Plan?
So far he said his plan is the same as Obama's.
Come on you Smart guys, tell us what you Republicans will do to get are Country back on top, how would You Create Jobs?
Plan One is?
Plan Two Is?
Plan Three Is?
Plan Four is?
So far O'Romney's Bank accounts are hidden. What is he hiding?
I think his plan is the Same as Bush's.
Sell the our Country to the Top Bidders. War for profits, Hotchkiss, Halibertain there all the same, making fortunes off of someone else's misfortune war profits.
A few predictions for what they are worth.
1) Obama is going to dump Biden. Obama and Biden have become synonomous with Laurel and Hardy, Amos and Andy, dumb and dumber. However, if Obama cannot dump biden, god help the Obama / Biden ticket. The logical replacement for Biden would be Hilary Clinton but Hillary and Obama probably hate each others guts. Furthermore, the world would begin listening to Bill and Hillary Clinton rather than Obama. There is a cliff separating the abilities of the Clinton's and the abilites of Obama. Not so with Biden. With biden it is dumb and dumber and take your pick who is dumb and who is dumber. Obama or Biden.
2) the immense advantage in campaign funds that Obama enjoyed in 2008 is gone. Expect Romney to get the message across that 'it doesn't have to be this way'. We can do better.
3) At the end of the day. I think Jimmy Carter would be a more viable candidate than Obama. At least Jimmy Carter ran a peanut farm and had a brother who produced billy beer. Obama has yet to sell his first glass of lemonaide from his solar powered, wind assisted, now bankrupt lemonaide stand. All paid for by guess who. Think simpletons who, gracias a lobotomies, bought into Obama's hope and change. Now known as hope to change who is in the White house.
WT
Thank you for pointing out Obama's economic successes. As you accurately note, Obama has had zero as in no economic successes.
We can send Obama, who has not had a hit in 10,000 at bats, to the plate or we can go with someone else.
Or put another way, we can keep Obama at quarterback even though he has not completed a pass in 10,000 attempts.
Daddy Rulz
07-10-12, 12:03
1. Do everything possible to harm the economy.
2. Wait for 2012.
3. Campain on the failed economy.
WT.
Thank you for pointing out Obama's economic successes. As you accurately note, Obama has had zero as in no economic successes.
We can send Obama, who has not had a hit in 10, 000 at bats, to the plate or we can go with someone else.
Or put another way, we can keep Obama at quarterback even though he has not completed a pass in 10, 000 attempts.
Oh, I forgot, the economy is Bush's fault
I see El Alamo continues to hit them out of the park, with his keen insight and deep analysis.
Grow the economy from the top ---> down (focus on supply)
Grow the economy from the middle ---> out (focus on demand)
These are the 2 fundamental economic choices in the coming election.
Which one is superior?
Punter 127
07-11-12, 07:39
1. Do everything possible to harm the economy.
2. Wait for 2012.
3. Campain on the failed economy.It's the presidents job to bring the sides together and work for the good of the country. Reagan, Clinton, and both Bush's were able to do that with varying degrees of success but Obama has failed miserably, he wants to rule by decree.
These are the 2 fundamental economic choices in the coming election. [snip]The choices are someone with a successful business track record or a Failed Amateur.
This make sense. The republicans, according to reliable sources, are doing everything possible to harm the economy. Not to worry. Obama is several steps ahead of the republicans. Obama has already destroyed the economy. There is nothing more for the republicans to do.
Grow the economy from the top. Down (focus on supply)
Grow the economy from the middle. Out (focus on demand)
These are the 2 fundamental economic choices in the coming election.
Which one is superior?Esten, You mean "focus on investment" versus "focus on consumer consumption"? People in the USA have the highest standard of living or close to the highest standard of living in the world. Maybe Qatar and Luxembourg are better off. But it's financed by debt. Personal debt and government debt. The 2 fundamental choices are throwing gasoline on a fire or returning to sanity. Democrats want to throw gasoline. Republicans are a mixed bag. Some, like Bush, would throw Molotov cocktails. Others, like Paul Ryan, are voices of sanity. The choice to invest, in companies, businesses and improvements in productivity, is superior to the choice to borrow money so our citizens can buy more consumer goods from China.
WorldTravel69
07-11-12, 14:13
Maybe just a little Alzheimers.
This make sense. The republicans, according to reliable sources, are doing everything possible to harm the economy. Not to worry. Obama is several steps ahead of the republicans.
Obama has already destroyed the economy.
There is nothing more for the republicans to do.That was Bush!
I am astonished to learn that Bush is still in control of the presidency. Clever how Obama can pretend to be the President but is secretly deferring to Bush on all important decisions. Only on Argentinaprivate do you find out what is really going on.
It's the presidents job to bring the sides together and work for the good of the country. Reagan, Clinton, and both Bush's were able to do that with varying degrees of success but Obama has failed miserably, he wants to rule by decree.Congress has a responsibility to work together too. But Republicans were determined to thwart Obama right from the start. They refused to support the Stimulus despite the fact it contained significant tax breaks; they plotted against Obama on health care reform ("It will be his Waterloo") ; and proudly announced their top priority was not jobs, but to defeat Obama. On the debt deal, Obama and Boehner were working on a big deal, but far-right Repubs reeled Boehner back in, reminding him they had all signed a pledge not to compromise.
Have Congressional Republicans been working for the good of the country? The answer is clear: NO.
The choices are someone with a successful business track record or a Failed Amateur.Romney's main success was making money for himself and his rich buddies. Sometimes at the expense of hard working Americans. If this were an election on running a private equity firm, Romney would be ahead. But it's an election on running a country, and Romney is behind. I wonder why that is? What do you call someone who is getting beat by a "Failed Amateur"?
WorldTravel69
07-11-12, 23:00
The White 99% Republicans say Obama wants to tax and increase spending.
He has the lowest tax rate in 30 years!
WorldTravel69
07-11-12, 23:46
Read and Weep.
The Economy went to Shit Under Bush!
The White 99% Republicans say Obama wants to tax and increase spending.
He has the lowest tax rate in 30 years! What do you have against white people? Federal spending under Obama is 24% of GDP, the highest since the 1940's:
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/06/01/president-obama-has-outspent-last-five-presidents
Taxes as % GDP are down on your graph for two reasons:
1. A recession occurred in 2009. Personal and corporate taxable income dropped more than GDP.
2. The Bush tax cuts decreased income tax rates across the board.
Related to "2" above, according to a CBO study, quoted approvingly by the Citizens for Tax Justice, the Bush tax cuts made the income tax system more progressive. They caused people at top income levels to pay a greater % of the total income tax.
The implication that Obama doesn't want to increase taxes or isn't a big spender is so ridiculous that it doesn't merit a reply. Read the newspaper. You know better.
Your other graphs conveniently stop before Obama became president. I believe presidents are given a lot more blame and credit for the state of the economy than they deserve. But if you correlate Obama's time in office with the state of the economy, considering we were "recovering" from a recession, he doesn't look any better than Bush.
What do you have against white people? Federal spending under Obama is 24% of GDP, the highest since the 1940's:
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/06/01/president-obama-has-outspent-last-five-presidents
Taxes as % GDP are down on your graph for two reasons:
1. A recession occurred in 2009. Personal and corporate taxable income dropped more than GDP.
2. The Bush tax cuts decreased income tax rates across the board.
Related to "2" above, according to a CBO study, quoted approvingly by the Citizens for Tax Justice, the Bush tax cuts made the income tax system more progressive. They caused people at top income levels to pay a greater % of the total income tax.
The implication that Obama doesn't want to increase taxes or isn't a big spender is so ridiculous that it doesn't merit a reply. Read the newspaper. You know better.
Your other graphs conveniently stop before Obama became president. I believe presidents are given a lot more blame and credit for the state of the economy than they deserve. But if you correlate Obama's time in office with the state of the economy, considering we were "recovering" from a recession, he doesn't look any better than Bush.Like all Pelosi Liberals (WT69 is a san fran boy) , they never let the truth get in the way! Furthermore, WT69 most likely will never set foot in BA again, as he would have to answer for all this spam he is placing on this thread after he repeatedly call for the threads closure! FACT!
Crawl back under your rock WT69. Your're home state has enough problems (CA) that I am surprised you even follow this board anymore. Shame on you, you worthless union ***** that can't even see that your touted masters let you down long ago! You are totally an extinct species howling at the moon, acting like an uninformed fool. Shame on you for spamming this thread with misinformation and foolishness. Doubt we'll ever see you in BA again. Keep howling at the moon dude. Toymann
Daddy Rulz
07-12-12, 06:37
That was pretty harsh, why can't we disagree yet maintain civility? Personally I think this is the root of all the issues up in the states these days. They have us fighting each other while the banks rob us blind and the pols on both sides of the aisle strip away our civil liberties one by one. Just my opinion.
Like all Pelosi Liberals (WT69 is a san fran boy) , they never let the truth get in the way! Furthermore, WT69 most likely will never set foot in BA again, as he would have to answer for all this spam he is placing on this thread after he repeatedly call for the threads closure! FACT!
Crawl back under your rock WT69. Your're home state has enough problems (CA) that I am surprised you even follow this board anymore. Shame on you, you worthless union * that can't even see that your touted masters let you down long ago! You are totally an extinct species howling at the moon, acting like an uninformed fool. Shame on you for spamming this thread with misinformation and foolishness. Doubt we'll ever see you in BA again. Keep howling at the moon dude. Toymann
WorldTravel69
07-12-12, 12:45
Romney's Contributors hiding money.
WorldTravel69
07-12-12, 12:53
I have nothing against White People; being one, just the Racist ones.
I Like this Federal Spending Chart better.
http://www.fedspending.org/
What do you have against white people? Federal spending under Obama is 24% of GDP, the highest since the 1940's:
http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2012/06/01/president-obama-has-outspent-last-five-presidents
Taxes as % GDP are down on your graph for two reasons:
1. A recession occurred in 2009. Personal and corporate taxable income dropped more than GDP.
2. The Bush tax cuts decreased income tax rates across the board.
Related to "2" above, according to a CBO study, quoted approvingly by the Citizens for Tax Justice, the Bush tax cuts made the income tax system more progressive. They caused people at top income levels to pay a greater % of the total income tax.
The implication that Obama doesn't want to increase taxes or isn't a big spender is so ridiculous that it doesn't merit a reply. Read the newspaper. You know better.
Your other graphs conveniently stop before Obama became president. I believe presidents are given a lot more blame and credit for the state of the economy than they deserve. But if you correlate Obama's time in office with the state of the economy, considering we were "recovering" from a recession, he doesn't look any better than Bush.
Texas Tornado
07-12-12, 18:41
Romney's Contributors hiding money.Yeah, it would be better to take money from the squeaky clean unions.
Romney's Contributors hiding money.I would contribute $2500 to Romney's campaign if I could hide it. Doing so publicly would be like volunteering that you're Jewish to the Nazi party in 1930's Germany.
The banks on your list weren't hiding anything. It's ironic, financial companies historically have been big contributors to the Democratic party, because the Democrats are more inclined to cater to special interests. The banks and other financial companies were big contributors to Obama in 2008. Not this time around. Maybe that's good. Maybe the Democratic Party isn't as inclined as it once was to bail out banks, provide backstops for mortgages to people who can't afford them, and fight to the death for hedge fund managers' carried interest tax breaks.
This is a hot one. Romney is considering condeleeza rice as his vp. The pluses are condeleeza was probably born in the united states and condeleeza rice does not need to hide her college transcripts to protect a 1.7 gpa and numerous probations for lack of academic performance. We are talking about Obama here.
The downside is that codeleeza would probaby be as successful as biden or Obama at running a lemonaide stand. The solar powered, wind assisted, federally funded lemonaide stand that never sold a single glass of lemonaide and is now bankrupt. The sad fact is that 3 of the 4 presidential and vice presidential candidates are clueless about the economy. Only Romney knows something about economics and Romney is being criticized for his expertise in economics. Only in america could we look at three stooges and deem them qualified and have questions about the one person with impecable qualifications. And then we wonder why we have unacceptable unemployment, a stagnant economy and staggering debt.
We are in danger of sending pee wee herman to pinch hit for babe ruth.
Gato Hunter
07-12-12, 23:24
Mormons hate blacks. This is just for a fucking vote. Anyone that has spent one minute in utah will know this. They arr more bigoted the argenintes.
Can't belive you asshole republicans would vote for a fucking mormon when you fuck whoress everyday I guess its just the "right way of denyiing shit" go call jesus in next assholes
Gato Hunter
07-12-12, 23:27
Trust me I know more blacks than romney none will fall for the bullshit
Romney was a private equity CEO, not an economist. He may have understood his specific investments, but that doesn't make him an expert on the broader economy nor on creating a strong middle class. From what I've heard from both candidates, Obama has a deeper understanding of economics than Romney.
Bain Capital was all about profit, profit, profit. Romney and his followers seem to believe more profit = more jobs. This is not necessarily true. Nobody should believe Romney when he says he knows how to create jobs, because that was never his motivation at Bain Capital.
Just this week we learned of yet another Bain Capital investment that worked against American workers. A Bain affiliate acquired a stake in Global-Tech Appliances, which manufactured household appliances in a production facility in China. At the time Romney was acquiring shares in Global-Tech, the firm publicly acknowledged that its strategy was to profit from prominent US companies outsourcing production abroad. So basically, Romney was helping and profiting off a Chinese company that made money when US companies outsourced.
These are the wrong kind of business credentials for the President of the United States.
Finally I agree with esten. The business credentials we are looking for in our president in someone like Obama who ran a solar powered, wind assisted, federally funded lemonaide stand that went bankrupt without selling a single glass of lemonaide.
WorldTravel69
07-13-12, 00:46
"If You want Them Vote For the Other Guy"
"If you Want Free things Vote for the Other Guy"
Romney Said that Today.
He is the One that is Out of Fucking Touch.
He does not know the hardships of Families trying to make a living.
He does not know his history and most of you don't either.
You and He were not born in Hard Times.
Free things started in World War II for me, while most fathers were at War.
My Mother Worked Two jobs to Keep food on our Plate.
Me and my Sister got Free food for Lunch, Free Shoes to wear, and Free Clothes to Wear.
Most of you Do Not Know Shit about that.
Romney says he Does.
What Bullshit!
He is a Rich Man and Most of you Are Not In His Class.
You Are Just Want-a-Bee's.
Political Groupies.
He Would Not Give You The Time Of Day.
And you Want someone Who cares about Jobs.
Our Countries Olympic Uniforms were made in China. More Out-Sourcing.
You Are Really Dumb.
Especially Toymann that has no Intelligent replies.
From what I've heard from both candidates, Obama has a deeper understanding of economics than Romney.HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa.
Stop it Esten!
You're killing me again!
Romney and his followers seem to believe more profit = more jobs.So can I infer that in Liberal La La Land "no profits = more jobs"?
You constantly amaze me with how your mind thinks.
Thanks,
Jackson
Punter 127
07-13-12, 06:54
Mormons hate blacks. This is just for a fucking vote. Anyone that has spent one minute in utah will know this. They arr more bigoted the argenintes.'Bigotry is the state of mind of a "bigot", a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one who exhibits intolerance or animosity toward members of a group. Bigotry may be based on real or perceived characteristics, including sex, sexual orientation, gender identity, race, ethnicity, nationality, region, language, religious or spiritual belief, Personal habits, political alignment, age, economic status or disability. Bigotry is sometimes developed into an ideology or world view."
Can't belive you asshole republicans would vote for a fucking mormon when you fuck whoress everyday I guess its just the "right way of denyiing shit" go call jesus in next assholesWhy not call Jesus, Obama does.
‘We are both practicing Christians, and obviously this position may be considered to put us at odds with the views of others, but, you know, when we think about our faith, the thing at root that we think about is, not only Christ sacrificing Himself on our behalf, but it’s also the golden rule, you know, treat others the way you would want to be treated.’Didn't you know Obama claims to be a "practicing Christian", how could you support him? Who's the real bigot?
He is a Rich Man and Most of you Are Not In His Class.
You Are Just Want-a-Bee's.
Political Groupies.
He Would Not Give You The Time Of Day.Hi WorldTravel69,
Why do you hate successful people?
Are you jealous of their success?
Do you suffer from "success envy"?
Do you believe that successful people are evil?
Do you believe that successful people should have their money taken from them?
Tell the truth.
Thanks,
Jackson
I just dusted off my 'psycology for dummies' textbook and now understand Obama supporters. According to this textbook. Losers are attracted to losers. Obama, being a loser, is attracting a lot of support from fellow losers.
Member #4112
07-13-12, 11:02
Esten, most of the time profit does equal more jobs to produce more profit that is how it works.
I can guarantee you no profit equals NO JOBS!
Now let me get this straight, Obama has a greater understanding of national and international economics than Romney?
Please tell me when and where Obama gained the superior insight into economics.
Was it when he was a community organizer?
Was it during his 7 years in the Illinois state senate where he rarely even showed up?
Was it during his stunning 2 years in the US Senate, where he spent most of his time running for president?
Pray tell when did Obama gain this superior knowledge? Obama thinks he is the messiah of the evil United States where the masses don't know what is good for them and need his divine guidance.
Don't even try to tell us he arrived at this understanding of economics while he was teaching constitutional law, since this is the president who does not acknowledge the three SEPERATE but EQUAL branches of the governemnt clearly outlined in the constitution.
Obama is too stupid to even understand what he does not know.
Dude can I have some of the shit your smoking?
WorldTravel69
07-13-12, 13:52
I do not hate successful people, just the Liar Romney.
Oh yes, and Bone ner.
Hi WorldTravel69,
Why do you hate successful people?
Are you jealous of their success?
Do you suffer from "success envy"?
Do you believe that successful people are evil?
Do you believe that successful people should have their money taken from them?
Tell the truth.
Thanks,
Jackson
Hi WorldTravel69,
Why do you hate successful people?
Are you jealous of their success?
Do you suffer from "success envy"?
Do you believe that successful people are evil?
Do you believe that successful people should have their money taken from them?
Tell the truth.
Thanks,
JacksonVery funny. These are standard questions for whack jobs wearing straight jackets in the looney bin.
You forgot one.
Do you believe that successful people are better than you?
Gato Hunter
07-13-12, 21:38
The jew vote will go to Obama Mormons have been pulling some bullshit baptizing holocaust victims for years. Those fuckers are. Crazier than scientoogits. I also think most non brainwashed idiots will not vote for a fucker that's part of a cult. I think all you right wing assholes should go to Utah so it can be bombed like Iraq. Then real social progresses can happen. Real jobs that pay more than macdonalds. Utah no pussy wattered down beeer and yo you asssholees want this fucker as el jeffe? What a crock of shit pot called he wants the kettle back
Gato Hunter
07-13-12, 21:42
I'm really thinking most of you assholes just can't stand a black man as president. How sad but you would cot for a fuxking Waco job
Matt Psyche
07-13-12, 23:07
What you call "assholes" can't stand any Democratic president. They wouldn't have any problem with a black Republican president as they don't with the black Supreme Court Justice. Even if War in Iraq and the great recession in 2008 happened under a black GOP president, they wouln't have minded. But if a white Democratic president killed BinLaden and adopted heathcare reform, they wouldn't like them.
I'm really thinking most of you assholes just can't stand a black man as president. How sad but you would cot for a fuxking Waco job
Member #4112
07-13-12, 23:51
Gato, that stroke must have had a greater affect on you than you have admitted. Get back on your meds, fast.
Stick with doing the GF and stop posting while off your meds. Your typing goes to shit as well as your ability to reason.
Gato Hunter
07-14-12, 00:36
Post something about pusssy it's the iPad aout correct that's the problem I have the spnish keyboard turned on it fucks everything up
How about a poltical debate between challenger GatoHunter (on meds) and self proclaimed champion Toyman (on steriods). Make sure you bring some towels, alot of spit will be flying.
I would surmise most of Obama's understanding of the economy comes from the last 3. 5 years, as President. Listening to economists with an open mind rather than blindly following an ideology.
Obama understands what Romney does not: giving tax cuts to the wealthy (helping the rich get richer) is wasteful. Contrary to Republican belief, that money does not all "trickle down" so that everyone prospers. Some of it trickles down, and some of it doesn't. And what trickles down doesn't always help the economy. There was a story earlier this week, some rich hedge fund guy bought a painting for $120 Million. How many jobs did that create? These tax cuts add significantly to deficits; how does the economy benefit in return?
Conversely, a far greater proportion of wealth earned by the middle class flows back into the economy. Growing the economy from the 'middle out' as Obama says, is both an economically and morally superior approach.
Romney believes in trickle-down economics, but this is a failed economic policy that has only weakened the middle class since Reagan.
There was a story earlier this week, some rich hedge fund guy bought a painting for $120 Million. How many jobs did that create?Hey Estan,
It doesn't matter how much the guy spent buying the painting, because it's his fucking money!
To restate the obvious, it's not your fucking money!
Get it?
Why do liberals believe that if an individual is not spending their own money on the things that liberals want, then the liberals have the right to confiscate that money and spend it for them?
Thanks,
Jackson
I have suggested before, and esten has admitted, that he is spoofing us with ridiculous posts. To be honest, most of esten's posts are out there somewhere between the orbits of Neptune and Pluto. Thery make absolutely no sense and defy all parameters of common sense.
My suspicion is that Esten is laughing his ass off as we take seriously posts that daily become more absurd.
It doesn't matter how much the guy spent buying the painting, because it's his fucking money!
To restate the obvious, it's not your fucking money!
Get it?This post illustrates perfectly why Conservatives are not to be trusted on the economy.
Notice Jackson doesn't debate the point on economic grounds but on moral grounds. It's the rich guy's money. Even after many rich people say they don't need all their money, they don't need their tax cuts, they think it's best for the economy / country to raise their taxes, a Conservative will shout no, it's their money. They don't debate the point on it's economic merit, because it's a losing argument for them.
The wealthy and their lobbyists have engineered a system where most of the wealth accumulates at the top. The top 5% control about 80% of the wealth. It seems this number could go up to 90%, 95%, 99%, through more lobbying and engineering, wages could go down further, poverty could increase further, and a Conservative would still object to any attempt to reverse such economic inequality.
When it comes to the economy, Conservatives are ideologists, and suckers.
Member #4112
07-14-12, 12:19
Esten, you don't 'Get It' because you don't want to get it. You are too blinded by 'social justice'.
Jackson's argument is based on economics; the funds spent were earned by the person spending them.
Liberal's can't stand people to spend money on things liberals don't consider 'just', 'moral' or 'are economically correct'.
Liberals wish to deny those who do not believe as they do one of the founding principles of this country. Liberty. The masses are too stupid to know what is best for them so the Ruling Liberal Elite will tell them what is good for them.
If Obama's economic prowess is based on the last 3. 5 years in office he gets an 'F'. His policies have failed and all he can do is offer up the same failed policies.
Esten, I agree 100% with Jackson. What you want to the extent you want it is institutionalized theft.
But, if you want to put yourself in the position of a thief, you should give some thought to what would be in your best interests, long term. How can you pocket the most money over the next 30 or 40 or 50 years. Without a doubt, you'd kill the goose that laid the golden egg. Obama would too, in part perhaps because he believes like you but mostly because it's good politics. Telling 97% of the country you're going to rob from the other 3% and somehow spend it on the 97%.
According to a study that just came out from the Congressional Budget Office, the federal tax rate on the top 1% in 2009 was 29%. The average for the country was 11%. Anyway, add state income tax, sales taxes, property taxes and the time and money that go into reporting to the taxing authorities and I bet the total is hitting on 50% of pre-tax income. Most of after tax profits of these individuals doesn't go into buying things like $120 million paintings. It's re-invested in businesses. Or it goes into bank accounts and bonds. It's loaned to businesses, municipalities and the feds to grow the economy and pay for government.
I just looked at IRS tax statistics for the most recent available year. Pelosi wants to stick it to people that make over $1 million a year and leave others untouched. Obama would go lower, to $200,000 or $250,000. Anyway, let's assume you're going to take every after-tax dollar from anyone who makes over $500,000 per year. You're going to take every dime that the federal and state governments aren't already taking in taxes, and leave them with nothing. This group made $901 billion in taxable income. They paid $257 billion in federal income tax. I figure they paid maybe another $63 billion in state income tax. That leaves them with $581 billion that you can get if you take everything. The current outstanding public debt is over $15 trillion. Please notethat's about 25 times larger than every after tax dollar earned by those who make over $500,000 per year. You add in social security and Medicare and Medicaid liabilities, and the debt would jump to over $50 trillion. That's over 80 years of all the after-tax income from the over-$500,000 crowd.
The tax the rich ploy is political fodder for the Democratic Party. It's not going to solve the country's problems. It is going to make them worse, if implemented, by reducing the capital available to the private economy. However, this does get votes. That's the reason Democrat politicians are obsessed with it. It's the same reason that they're obsessed with whether some people lost jobs while Romney was at Bain Capital. It's all about votes.
champion Toyman (on steriods).I have been hitting the gym lately, and lost about 6 kilos. Thanks for noticing BS. Monger on dudes. Toymann
Romney's Contributors hiding money.The bankers are the ones in charge. Goldman Sachs hand selected BO and were either his largest or second largest contributor. I believe they gave BO far more money in 2008 than they have Romney in 2012. The difference between MR and BO is that MR understands how to make a profit. BO only understands how to get money out of government.
Everyone seems to get lost in the Republicans vs. Democrats angle. The banksters love that. What we need is an old fashioned Black Friday. Here is some information on that famous Black Friday:
"Black Friday (24 September 1869) was the climactic day of an effort by the financiers Jay Gould and James Fisk Jr, with the help of President Ulysses S. Grant's brother-in-law Abel Rathbone Corbin and one or two associates, to corner the ready gold supply of the United States. Because the nation was then on a paper money basis, gold was dealt in as a speculative commodity on the New York exchange. On 2 September Gould began buying gold on a large scale; on 15 September, Fisk also began buying heavily and soon forced the price from $135 to $140. The movement excited much suspicion and fear, and the New York Tribune argued that the Treasury had the "plain and imperative" duty to sell gold and break up the conspiracy. Secretary of the Treasury George S. Boutwell visited New York but decided not to act. Meanwhile, Grant had gone to Washington, Pennsylvania, and was out of touch until he returned to Washington, D. C, on 22 September. On 23 September, with gold at $144, the New York panic grew serious."
And:
"The effects of Black Friday caused dislocations in the financial markets which lasted into 1870. The term "Black Friday" came about as nervous depositors withdraw their gold coin savings from banks. Angry mobs dragged bankers out of their offices if they did not give back people's life savings (in gold coins) and there are reports that bankers were hung in New York. Grant's government had to send in troops to stop the riots. Many speculators and investors were wiped out."
What these articles did not mention is that many of those bankers tried to give depositers $20 greenbacks instead of their gold coins. The customers, not being as civilized as today's citizens, hung the thieving bankers on the lamp posts.
Personally, I do not care for BO or MR. I will vote for MR, because he will govern in a way that will delay a USD collapse for a year or two longer than BO. In addition, BO has been planning for 4 years to take the retirement plan assets. But he had to wait for a second term. Recent laws are making it very hard for US citizens to open accounts outside the US. Sounds a bit like Argentina, doesn't it?
SnakeOilSales
07-15-12, 08:45
The refusal on the part of Mitt Romney to release his pre-2010 tax returns is going to prove to be his waterloo. He is clearly hiding something that probably is not illegal but would be perceived by the media and the unwashed masses as unbecoming of a POTUS. Elaborate tax avoidance schemes, betting / hedging against the US Dollar, large offshore deposits, etc are all standard practice (and currently perfectly legal) for Wall Street Sharks like Romney but are inappropriate and unpatriotic for a potential POTUS and if disclosed as fact will be used by Obama's team to shatter Romney's campaign.
The refusal on the part of Barak Obama to release his college transcripts is going to prove to be his Waterloo. He is clearly hiding something that probably is not illegal but would be perceived by the media and the unwashed masses as unbecoming of a POTUS. Poor grades, intermittent attendance, lackluster participation, etc. are all standard practice (and currently perfectly legal) for community organizers but are inappropriate and unpatriotic for a potential POTUS, and if disclosed as fact will be used by Romney's team to shatter Obama's campaign.
Canitasguy
07-15-12, 11:50
The refusal on the part of Barak Obama to release his college transcripts is going to prove to be his Waterloo. He is clearly hiding something that probably is not illegal but would be perceived by the media and the unwashed masses as unbecoming of a POTUS. Poor grades, intermittent attendance, lackluster participation, etc. are all standard practice (and currently perfectly legal) for community organizers but are inappropriate and unpatriotic for a potential POTUS, and if disclosed as fact will be used by Romney's team to shatter Obama's campaign.You are a piece of work. Always miss the point. So predictable it's funny!
SnakeOilSales
07-15-12, 16:26
Come on Jackson, you can do better than that. It is clear, even to a four year old, that NOBODY in this election cares or is even talking about Obama's college transcripts; the majority of voters in this election who will make the difference did not even go to college. Romney's shadowy financial dealings and history as a corporate raider, however, are making front page news and middle and working class voters are concerned that Mitt Romney might be the Mormon Gordon Gekko. Does anybody really believe that middle class voters in Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida and going to relate to and vote for a Mormon Gordon Gekko, should it in fact be revealed that Romney has extensive offshore bank accounts, hedges / shorts against the USD, tax avoidance schemes, etc?
WorldTravel69
07-15-12, 17:15
While watching Meet the Press they were talking about the Tax extensions. The republican said they should keep the Cuts and not tax the Job Creators. They have been getting this Tax Cut for YEARS!
Where's The JOBS they are Creating? China?
In this article this guy and others make Too Much Money. What do they do to justify making this much money? Since they are not the ones DOING the work.
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_21069412/cassidy-is-apple-ceo-tim-cook-worth-378-million?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com
Verizon's Boss makes loads of Bucks, but wants his workers wages and benefits lowered.
While watching Meet the Press they were talking about the Tax extensions. The republican said they should keep the Cuts and not tax the Job Creators. They have been getting this Tax Cut for YEARS!
Where's The JOBS they are Creating? China?
In this article this guy and others make Too Much Money. What do they do to justify making this much money? Since they are not the ones DOING the work.
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_21069412/cassidy-is-apple-ceo-tim-cook-worth-378-million?IADID=Search-www.mercurynews.com-www.mercurynews.com
Verizon's Boss makes loads of Bucks, but wants his workers wages and benefits lowered.The mercury out of silicone valley! IALOTFLMAO! Can you quote any source that isn't some wild-ass liberal spin rag out of silicone valley. Suggest you read the Obama "pink slip" billboards along the I-680 dude. LOL. So pathetic WT69. Say Hi to nancy for me Monday morning. Happy Mongering All. Toymann
WorldTravel69
07-15-12, 21:07
And California.
In case you do not know it, that's where a lot of the money is.
They were just reporting the News.
No Spin, It's just your Head Is Spinning.
The mercury out of silicone valley! IALOTFLMAO! Can you quote any source that isn't some wild-ass liberal spin rag out of silicone valley. Suggest you read the Obama "pink slip" billboards along the I-680 dude. LOL. So pathetic WT69. Say Hi to nancy for me Monday morning. Happy Mongering All. Toymann
P.S. Your Girlfriend Nancy was born in Baltimore, raised back East.
Gato Hunter
07-15-12, 21:59
Much more money with the old Jews
Gato Hunter
07-15-12, 22:17
Really can't SW much of the old Jew and Cuban vote going to or money inn south Florida.
SnakeOilSales
07-16-12, 00:06
Apparently, back in 2008 Romney gave the McCain campaign 23 years of tax returns during the vetting process for McCain's VP search; the word is that the contents of those tax returns is what led McCain to reject Romney as his running mate and go with Sarah Palin instead. In addition, Romney just went on five network interviews and again claimed he left Bain Capital completely in 1999 even though his signed, sworn statements to the SEC put him as the CEO, President, Chairman of the Board, and sole shareholder of Bain Capital until 2003; he is either lying now or he lied to the SEC on his signed, sworn statements. This is going to bring down the Romney campaign.
Apparently, back in 2008 Romney gave the McCain campaign 23 years of tax returns during the vetting process for McCain's VP search; the word is that the contents of those tax returns is what led McCain to reject Romney as his running mate and go with Sarah Palin instead. In addition, Romney just went on five network interviews and again claimed he left Bain Capital completely in 1999 even though his signed, sworn statements to the SEC put him as the CEO, President, Chairman of the Board, and sole shareholder of Bain Capital until 2003; he is either lying now or he lied to the SEC on his signed, sworn statements. This is going to bring down the Romney campaign.Guese you are totally ignorant with regard to large company business practices in the US. It is totally common practice when a succesfull CEO / Owner steps down or moves on (both public and privately held companies) that the outgoing CEO / Owner stays on as chairman of the board / owner till a fully executed transition occurs. The transition is most often handled by others (especially when the exiting owner is being bought out, it's called the earn-out period) but the purpose of keeping the previous CEO / owner on the board is for name recognition / transitional purposes or earnout tax management planning. Romney has stated he was not involved in a management capacity with Bain after 1999. Thats what your papers clearly state IDIOT!
The Bain people have unequivalently confirmed this and on top of it all Romney began working his magic with the salt lake olympics full time immediately after he left Bain (guese why he left, its not rocket science, the Olympics were in huge trouble, and an international committee headed by a canadian begged him to take on the mess and fix it!). Did I mention he didn't even take a salary for his efforts. Did I mention he totally turned the project from a huge mess to the best run winter olympics of all time. Hmmm. He is good at turning a sows ear into a silk purse. Anyone know of a mess that needs cleaning up right now? Anyone, anyone?
Your statements SnakeOil serve to illustrate how totally ignorant you must be of the business world in america. You are a peice of work dude. I suggest you remain quite and be thought a fool than open your mouth again and remove all doubt! IALOTFLMAO at you! America is much smarter than you give us credit for retard. This type of smoke screen just doesn't play well in 2012. Keep howling at the moon dude! Or move to Canada! Just more misdirection from the wild-ass liberals. Tick Tick Tick. Hope you don't cry to hard in novemeber. Your're socialist, hand-out, society just doesn't play in america. It's been tried before and rejected. Happy Mongering All but Snake Boy. Toymann
ps. read your 12 posts dude. Too funny. Thanx for the contributions so far. Stupid and ignorant is no way to go through life young man! IALOTFLMAO
SnakeOilSales
07-16-12, 05:37
Guese you are totally ignorant with regard to large company business practices in the US. It is totally common practice when a succesfull CEO / Owner steps down or moves on (both public and privately held companies) that the outgoing CEO / Owner stays on as chairman of the board / owner till a fully executed transition occurs. The transition is most often handled by others (especially when the exiting owner is being bought out, it's called the earn-out period) but the purpose of keeping the previous CEO / owner on the board is for name recognition / transitional purposes or earnout tax management planning. Romney has stated he was not involved in a management capacity with Bain after 1999. Thats what your papers clearly state IDIOT!
The Bain people have unequivalently confirmed this and on top of it all Romney began working his magic with the salt lake olympics full time immediately after he left Bain (guese why he left, its not rocket science, the Olympics were in huge trouble, and an international committee headed by a canadian begged him to take on the mess and fix it!). Did I mention he didn't even take a salary for his efforts. Did I mention he totally turned the project from a huge mess to the best run winter olympics of all time. Hmmm. He is good at turning a sows ear into a silk purse. Anyone know of a mess that needs cleaning up right now? Anyone, anyone?
Your statements SnakeOil serve to illustrate how totally ignorant you must be of the business world in america. You are a peice of work dude. I suggest you remain quite and be thought a fool than open your mouth again and remove all doubt! IALOTFLMAO at you! America is much smarter than you give us credit for retard. This type of smoke screen just doesn't play well in 2012. Keep howling at the moon dude! Or move to Canada! Just more misdirection from the wild-ass liberals. Tick Tick Tick. Hope you don't cry to hard in novemeber. Your're socialist, hand-out, society just doesn't play in america. It's been tried before and rejected. Happy Mongering All but Snake Boy. Toymann.
Ps. Read your 12 posts dude. Too funny. Thanks for the contributions so far. Stupid and ignorant is no way to go through life young man! IALOTFLMAOWhether I am ignorant or not about the business world is totally inconsequential to this discussion of the upcoming election; I am not running for any office, however Romney IS running for office and he is clearly hiding something messy in those 23 years of tax returns he has yet to fork over to be analyzed. He is probably concealing the same sort of shifty tax avoidance schemes, exotic offshore holdings, and USD shorts that all Wall Street Sharks utilize. The vast majority of Americans do not trust the Wall Street Sharks who through their absolutely reckless and greedy riverboat gambling nearly sank (and may yet sink) the entire financial world. Americans are still mad that the Wall Street Sharks gambled, lost, and then got bailed out 100 cents on the dollar thanks to sweetheart deals between current and former Wall Street Sharks in and out of government. The key here for Obama is to paint Romney as one of these such Wall Street Sharks and once these tax returns are released it will be like Christmas, Easter, New Year's Eve and Barack's birthday all rolled into one for the Obama campaign.
Punter 127
07-16-12, 06:20
once these tax returns are released it will be like Christmas, Easter, New Year's Eve and Barack's birthday all rolled into one for the Obama campaign. [snip]What makes you think he will release his tax returns? If he does he will probably take at least as long as Obama took to come up with a birth certificate.
SnakeOilSales
07-16-12, 07:13
What makes you think he will release his tax returns? If he does he will probably take at least as long as Obama took to come up with a birth certificate.I think the pressure from within his own party and the non-stop attacks by the Obama campaign will force his hand on this. Already, the governor of Alabama, the former governor of Mississippi, and several well known Republican pundits and strategists are calling for Romney to in fact release the returns. Romney simply will not be able to re-frame the electoral debate / discussion and successfully go on the offensive against Obama until he comes clean with his tax returns. In addition, although this might sound a bit arcane at this point, I believe the Republican party powers that be want this storm to explode BEFORE Romney is formally nominated so they can come up with a plan B at the convention should some damning skeleton be found in Romney's tax return closet.
Punter 127
07-16-12, 10:06
I think the pressure from within his own party and the non-stop attacks by the Obama campaign will force his hand on this. Already, the governor of Alabama, the former governor of Mississippi, and several well known Republican pundits and strategists are calling for Romney to in fact release the returns. Romney simply will not be able to re-frame the electoral debate / discussion and successfully go on the offensive against Obama until he comes clean with his tax returns. In addition, although this might sound a bit arcane at this point, I believe the Republican party powers that be want this storm to explode BEFORE Romney is formally nominated so they can come up with a plan B at the convention should some damning skeleton be found in Romney's tax return closet.I think it's just wishful thinking on your part.
Just this weeks distraction from Obamas failed record.
Apparently, back in 2008 Romney gave the McCain campaign 23 years of tax returns during the vetting process for McCain's VP search; the word is that the contents of those tax returns is what led McCain to reject Romney as his running mate and go with Sarah Palin instead. In addition, Romney just went on five network interviews and again claimed he left Bain Capital completely in 1999 even though his signed, sworn statements to the SEC put him as the CEO, President, Chairman of the Board, and sole shareholder of Bain Capital until 2003; he is either lying now or he lied to the SEC on his signed, sworn statements. This is going to bring down the Romney campaign. Edited to remove facts already covered by Toymann
If there really was anything to this issue, BO would have the SEC all over MR's butt. The fact that nothing is going on with the SEC should tell you that there is nothing really there.
More interesting to me is why no one seems to be talking about BO protecting Corzine who took down MF Global. MF Global hired Attorney General Holder's close friend Reid Weingarten to defend Edith Obrien. Edith Obrien is the MF Global employee who can bury Corzine. So now you have the circle jerk defense for the lack of prosecution of Corzine and other MF Global executives.
We cannot prosecute Corzine for a lack of evidence. But we cannot get the evidence because the Justice Department refuses to give Obrien immunity from prosecution. Keep in mind that one of Obrien's emails regarding the illegal money transfers states that it was per JC's specific instructions. So Corzine, who is busy doing fundraiser's for BO, gets off from prosecution because the Justice Department refuses to provide immunity to an underling.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-07-10/pfg-falls-return-mf-global-eric-holder-connection-and-how-keep-investigation-
Whether I am ignorant or not about the business world is totally inconsequential to this discussion of the upcoming election; I am not running for any office, however Romney IS running for office and he is clearly hiding something messy in those 23 years of tax returns he has yet to fork over to be analyzed. He is probably concealing the same sort of shifty tax avoidance schemes, exotic offshore holdings, and USD shorts that all Wall Street Sharks utilize. The vast majority of Americans do not trust the Wall Street Sharks who through their absolutely reckless and greedy riverboat gambling nearly sank (and may yet sink) the entire financial world. Americans are still mad that the Wall Street Sharks gambled, lost, and then got bailed out 100 cents on the dollar thanks to sweetheart deals between current and former Wall Street Sharks in and out of government. The key here for Obama is to paint Romney as one of these such Wall Street Sharks and once these tax returns are released it will be like Christmas, Easter, New Year's Eve and Barack's birthday all rolled into one for the Obama campaign.Glad to see you are now over the whole "when Romney left Bain smoke screen". Glad my lecture served to educate you. So now we're back to speculating about tax returns. IALOTFLMAO! These type of speculative rantings only ineterest the wild-ass liberal, occupy wallstreest, I hate america, types like yourself. Republicans, and most importantly most independents don't give a damn about this discussion. IT's ALL ABOUT JOBS AND THE ECONOMY DUDE! Nothing that Obomantion, his handlers or foolish liberal types like you can say will change that. Sadly today, the liberal party has just become so extreme that they fail to see whats going on around them. These days liberals like you and your kind are just "whistling past the cemetary". Tick Tick Tick! Buy your crying towel now SnakeBoy, you're really going to need it in novemeber. Happy Mongering All. Toymann
SnakeOilSales
07-16-12, 14:52
Edited to remove facts already covered by Toymann.
If there really was anything to this issue, BO would have the SEC all over MR's butt. The fact that nothing is going on with the SEC should tell you that there is nothing really there.
More interesting to me is why no one seems to be talking about BO protecting Corzine who took down MF Global. MF Global hired Attorney General Holder's close friend Reid Weingarten to defend Edith Obrien. Edith Obrien is the MF Global employee who can bury Corzine. So now you have the circle jerk defense for the lack of prosecution of Corzine and other MF Global executives.
We cannot prosecute Corzine for a lack of evidence. But we cannot get the evidence because the Justice Department refuses to give Obrien immunity from prosecution. Keep in mind that one of Obrien's emails regarding the illegal money transfers states that it was per JC's specific instructions. So Corzine, who is busy doing fundraiser's for BO, gets off from prosecution because the Justice Department refuses to provide immunity to an underling.
http://www.zerohedge.com/contributed/2012-07-10/pfg-falls-return-mf-global-eric-holder-connection-and-how-keep-investigation-Never in any of these posts have I suggested that anything that would be found in Mitt Romney's undisclosed tax returns is illegal. What I have been suggesting is that what will be revealed will be embarrassing and damaging to the Romney campaign. Sophisticated tax avoidance schemes (resulting in a 14% effective tax rate) , offshore accounts at notorious tax havens, and hedges / shorts against the USD will not be easily explained to the manager at Jiffy Lube in Ohio who pays out 20% of his gross in come in taxes or a teacher in florida paying out similar amounts.
SnakeOilSales
07-16-12, 14:59
Glad to see you are now over the whole "when Romney left Bain smoke screen". Glad my lecture served to educate you. So now we're back to speculating about tax returns. IALOTFLMAO! These type of speculative rantings only ineterest the wild-ass liberal, occupy wallstreest, I hate america, types like yourself. Republicans, and most importantly most independents don't give a damn about this discussion. IT's ALL ABOUT JOBS AND THE ECONOMY DUDE! Nothing that Obomantion, his handlers or foolish liberal types like you can say will change that. Sadly today, the liberal party has just become so extreme that they fail to see whats going on around them. These days liberals like you and your kind are just "whistling past the cemetary". Tick Tick Tick! Buy your crying towel now SnakeBoy, you're really going to need it in novemeber. Happy Mongering All. ToymannIt's all about jobs you say, interesting, as during the time that Romney was STILL the CEO, President, Chairman, and Sole Shareholder of Bain HIS firm was involved in bankrupting / liquidity companies for profit (and naturally firing all the employees) and consulting other firms on how to more efficiently outsource jobs to China and Mexico. The legal paperwork filed with the SEC says Romney was still LEGALLY at the helm at Bain during the period this sort of soulless corporate raiding was going on- that's the bottom line. I'm sure the unemployed factory worker in Pennsylvania is going to be thrilled to vote for a guy who specializes in laying people just like him off and keeps his money offshore.
It's all about jobs you say, interesting, as during the time that Romney was STILL the CEO, President, Chairman, and Sole Shareholder of Bain HIS firm was involved in bankrupting / liquidity companies for profit (and naturally firing all the employees) and consulting other firms on how to more efficiently outsource jobs to China and Mexico. The legal paperwork filed with the SEC says Romney was still LEGALLY at the helm at Bain during the period this sort of soulless corporate raiding was going on- that's the bottom line. I'm sure the unemployed factory worker in Pennsylvania is going to be thrilled to vote for a guy who specializes in laying people just like him off and keeps his money offshore.Snake, I am not a fan of Republicans or Democrats. As I stated, my vote for MR is based upon the fact that he will delay the coming inevitable economic collapse years longer than BO.
My question to you is that you are saying that MR is good at tax avoidance and MR is good at creating value for shareholders. MR was effective as Governor of MA and he definitely turned around the Winter Olympics. So, MR has been shown to be very good at the jobs he has held. Isn't the very attribute you are condeming him for, effectiveness, the best reason to vote for him. MR is good at what he does.
BO's skill is in getting money from the government. Now BO is the government and he is still trying to get money out of the government. Problem is the government doesn't have any money and won't until a debt default or a currency collapse.
BO has had divided government with Congress and MR had democrats in MA. Democrats should retain the Senate and Republicans should retain the House. Do you think BO or MR would be more effective with a divided government? Look at their track records.
Obama is rapidly evolving from a likeable simpleton into a simpleton who is an a**hole.
WorldTravel69
07-17-12, 01:04
Rush, Rush, Rush.
The Real Racist One.
What he said today, Incredible.
He had admitted that he was ON DRUGS in the past.
Come on Republicans Tell US What his and New Drug is?
Give It Up Toymann?
Rush, Rush, Rush.
The Real Racist One.
What he said today, Incredible.
He had admitted that he was ON DRUGS in the past.
Come on Republicans Tell US What his and New Drug is?
Give It Up Toymann?I didn't know that Rush Limbaugh was running for president.
If he's not, then what the fuck does this have to do with the title of this thread "2012 Elections in the USA"?
Thanks,
Jackson
I didn't know that Rush Limbaugh was running for president.
If he's not, then what the fuck does this have to do with the title of this thread "2012 Elections in the USA"?
Thanks,
Jackson
Like any of Wt69's posts have made any sense. Kinda feel sorry for him. Uninformed and ignornant is no way to go through life WT69. Don't jump off the golden gate bridge in novemeber dude! Your union pension, social security and food stamps will at least keep you alive, for a while anyway. Your anger at america and republicans in general is just displaced anxiety related to your past union handlers. I am sure your ex-union bosses visit BA often and are living the good life. You'll never admit it but in your heart of hearts you know I am right. Monger on WT69 (if you can afford too). Toymann
ps. I grew up in a socialist country dude. I get it, have lived it, and have the T-shirt. At your age you really should have figured it out by now.. Stop howling at the moon old man, it is not very becoming!
SnakeOilSales
07-17-12, 03:10
Like any of Wt69's posts have made any sense. Kinda feel sorry for him. Uninformed and ignornant is no way to go through life WT69. Don't jump off the golden gate bridge in novemeber dude! Your union pension, social security and food stamps will at least keep you alive, for a while anyway. Your anger at america and republicans in general is just displaced anxiety related to your past union handlers. I am sure your ex-union bosses visit BA often and are living the good life. You'll never admit it but in your heart of hearts you know I am right. Monger on WT69 (if you can afford too). Toymann.
Ps. I grew up in a socialist country dude. I get it, have lived it, and have the T-shirt. At your age you really should have figured it out by now. Stop howling at the moon old man, it is not very becoming!Jackson-
Is this the thread discussing the 2012 Election, or Toymann's personal thread for launching crude and unnecessary personal attacks against WorldTravel69 and others? Toymann obviously knows WT69 personally to be making the specific comments about WT69's personal financial situation and then taunting him about it. I am pretty sure the TOS of this site do not allow for personal attacks.
Toymann-
Back to the subject of this thread and learn to spell correctly while you are at it. Are you the Dan Quayle of this website?
Punter 127
07-17-12, 08:09
If you’ve got a business—you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.In the past we were ask 'Are you better off than you were four years ago? '
This year Romney should ask 'can the country survive four more years of Obama? '
For Obama to claim that businesses owe their success to the government because the government built roads and infrastructure emphasizes Obama's ignorance of the economy. The government did not build those roads and infrastructure. The private sector built those roads and infrastructure with the taxes they paid. Obama has crashed through the imbecile category into the idiot category. For Obama we need a new classification for what is below idiot.
Raving Lunatic in Chief is my suggestion. Those comments last week in virginia were classic and unplugged. Sometimes even a seasoned liar lets his true feeling be known.
Ps. Newbie Snakeboy, this is the political thread dude. If ya can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen. It's all in fun anyway. Whats your problem? Is this thread not politically correct enough and offends your sensibilities? IALOTFLMAO. Crawl back under your wild-ass liberal rock. Based on your posts you are just a liberal political shill anyway. LMAO. Toymann.
Pps. Jackson. Jackson. Toymann is being bad. Waah waah. Too funny!
WorldTravel69
07-17-12, 14:28
Because he was making Racist remarks about Obama.
Plus Rush is the leader of the Republican Party. What he says goes.
I didn't know that Rush Limbaugh was running for president.
If he's not, then what the fuck does this have to do with the title of this thread "2012 Elections in the USA"?
Thanks,
Jackson
Plus Rush is the leader of the Republican Party. What he says goes.Your position as the village idiot is already set in stone dude. Please stop with the crazy bizarre statements. Both parties have extremes but all groups follow the normal distribution with regard to membership. Ever heard of a blue dog dude? You'd hate those guys, kick them out of YOUR party and claim they are republicans in liberal clothing. Better to be thought a fool and remain silent fella. For a guy that bitched about this thread for years, not sure why you post here. Your comments are even more extreme than Esten. LMAO! Give Nancy a kiss for me. Happy Mongering All. Toymann
Wild Walleye
07-18-12, 00:41
When it comes to leg work, checking out the privados and letting all of us know what the scoop is. For that we are all grateful. However, I believe that in this case, you are mistaken. I believe Rush posts the entire, unedited transcript from each show on his website, so it shouldn't be too hard to provide a few quotes to make your point.
I like to consider myself a decent reader of the tea leaves, my 2008-2009 posts on this very subject might be worth reviewing but, I'll save you the work. The only racist in this presidential cycle is Obama, who also happens to be a Marxist. While debating social-democrat policies, over cafe and demi-lunas is great fun, in practice, Marxism and the command economy have never, in the history of mankind, worked. However, during the last 100 years or so, followers of such philosophies have murdered over 110 million, of their own people, trying to make those flawed policies work. During that same period, racism killed significantly fewer. If over 100 million murders isn't enough to convince some people that Marxism and communist theory are fallacies, nothing will.
Monger on.
This election, which looked like a slam dunk for Romney, is now up in the air. Time to dust off Hilary Clinton or, god forbid, Biden. Sheriff Joe has determined without a shadow of a doubt that Obama's so called birth certificate is a computer generated fraud. Not surprising considering that everything else about Obama is a fraud.
WorldTravel69
07-18-12, 12:11
Most of my posts were based on the News Media, the charts, etc.
What the fuck have you posted except attacks.
Where are your facts?
None posted!
You sound more like the Pit Bull of this thread. Attack, no brains.
Your position as the village idiot is already set in stone dude. Please stop with the crazy bizarre statements. Both parties have extremes but all groups follow the normal distribution with regard to membership. Ever heard of a blue dog dude? You'd hate those guys, kick them out of YOUR party and claim they are republicans in liberal clothing. Better to be thought a fool and remain silent fella. For a guy that bitched about this thread for years, not sure why you post here. Your comments are even more extreme than Esten. LMAO! Give Nancy a kiss for me. Happy Mongering All. Toymann
Gato Hunter
07-18-12, 12:35
Fantasy land will be here, your real life is better this is just an illousion. Besides I think the place is going to blow up this year. Wait tilll after the riots and anger are done then swoop in with a fist full of dollars.
Because he was making Racist remarks about Obama.
Plus Rush is the leader of the Republican Party. What he says goes.Suggest you reread your posting history dude. It pretty much speaks for itself! The fact you copy and paste liberal dribble from known biased sources is fine. Kinda reminds me of another retired monger your age. LOL. At the end of the day it is just spam. I have heard your positions on vietnam, republicans, unions, travel history, etc. Etc. You have no idea how extreme most of your commentary is, thus the village idiot title. But fear not, I have had my say and will now let you howl at the moon unfettered until November. Tick Tick Tick. It's all good. Funny how you haven't commented on Obomantion's wild remarks in virginia last weekend. I am sure you feel the same way that the government is responsible for all good things in america, especially small business success and innovation. IALOTFLMAO! It is obvious from your posts that you never valued your employer and only idiolized your union handlers. Please explain why union enrollment is at a 100 year low right now and that most states are now breaking the unions. Maybe they have outlived their value, excpet maybe a source of democratic party funding. Get ready for a huge dissapontment dude. The USA will not choose socialism over capitalism at the end of the day. Happy Mongering All. Toymann.
Ps. Surprised at your last comment El Alamo. Last weekends statements by Obama in virginia most likely was his John Kerry moment. Don't fret about what Romney is doing in July. He is laying in the reeds waiting to define Obama for what he is, another village idiot. If I was him I would not be wasting my ammunition so early in the fight. You will see the pressure go up dramatically after the convention in August. This game is all about September and October. After last weekend it appears that Obomanation, off tele-prompter might as well join the GOP super-pac. LMAO.
Toymann.
I have no doubt that Romney will win the election if Obama is the opponent. I am not sure Obama will be on the ticket. It is only a matter of time that it is determined that Obama is a fraud and that Obama was not born in the united states and that Obama was an idiot in college and is still an idiot.
WorldTravel69
07-18-12, 15:36
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Obama+birth+certificate&qpvt=Obama+birth+certificate&FORM=IGRE.
McCain was born in Panama. When did that country become a State. Where is his Birth Certificate. How come nobody cared? He's White.
This election, which looked like a slam dunk for Romney, is now up in the air. Time to dust off Hilary Clinton or, god forbid, Biden. Sheriff Joe has determined without a shadow of a doubt that Obama's so called birth certificate is a computer generated fraud. Not surprising considering that everything else about Obama is a fraud.
WorldTravel69
07-18-12, 15:47
http://www.cnbc.com/id/47678760/?Is_Obama_a_Socialist
When it comes to leg work, checking out the privados and letting all of us know what the scoop is. For that we are all grateful. However, I believe that in this case, you are mistaken. I believe Rush posts the entire, unedited transcript from each show on his website, so it shouldn't be too hard to provide a few quotes to make your point.
I like to consider myself a decent reader of the tea leaves, my 2008-2009 posts on this very subject might be worth reviewing but, I'll save you the work. The only racist in this presidential cycle is Obama, who also happens to be a Marxist. While debating social-democrat policies, over cafe and demi-lunas is great fun, in practice, Marxism and the command economy have never, in the history of mankind, worked. However, during the last 100 years or so, followers of such philosophies have murdered over 110 million, of their own people, trying to make those flawed policies work. During that same period, racism killed significantly fewer. If over 100 million murders isn't enough to convince some people that Marxism and communist theory are fallacies, nothing will.
Monger on.
WT.
I think the Supreme Court decided long ago that if you were born in a country that starts with the letter P (Panama) you are eligible to run for the presidency. The letters K and I (Kenya and Indonesia) are no-no's. Just bad luck for Obama.
Member #4112
07-18-12, 19:08
Current Democrat / Obama strategy is for Team Obama to smear Romney to the point he is untouchable by the time the convention rolls around. Team Obama is hoping by going so vastly negative early he can destroy Romney and still have time to come back to 'Mr Nice Guy' in the last month of the campaign and recoup his dignity. Problem for Obama is they have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at Romney but it's not working and the polls have not changed a bit.
I can guarantee you after Team Obama wages nearly two months of false and malicious highly negative campaigning, coupled with his class warfare mantra, his outright lies about raising taxes and the deficit, come late August or early September Team Romney is going to ram Obama's own words in graphic detail regarding 'Hope & Change', 'a Uniter not a Divider', 'the most transparent administration' and all the other lies and platitudes from Obama's 2008 campaign right up Obama's ASS!
Obama would Fu-k up a rock.
The kind that had you feeling like million bucks!
Early riser at 5 am. Turn on CNBC, made a cup of Colombian instant coffee. 2nd cup came with sliced multigrain bread, spicy moroccan sardines in olive oil, salami & tomato slices, olives, finished with fresh juicy pineapple and papaya. Self service, no butler / maid.
At 7 am, put on my tennis shorts, strolled to the courts. Smiles and acknowlegments from security guards, students, street vendors, monks and commuters. Not all of them, of course, many were preoccupied with quarrels, tests, payments, & erections & election thoughts. Several ladies did catch my eyes, my mind unclothed them and had them sprawled and splayed in embarrasing positions. Then, 3 hours of doubles, courts, balls, ice & water for 100 baht ($3. 30). What a deal! Post tennis wine and snacks was a treat from fellow players, great hour of socialization and trying to solve the world's problems. No end result.
Walked home, took a shower, then a taxi (110 baht) to my favorite massage spa. Manicure & pedicure, followed by 1 hour of body oil massage(500 bhat or $17). Stripped, took another quick shower, and layed under the towel. My masseuse was big- boned girl, not fat, about 30 with large strong hands, perfect. Started faced down, my skinny muscles felt good as her strong experienced hands did their job. Turned around and as her hand slide up and down my aching thighs, with a slight brush to the genitals, my frog started to stir. My exploring hands caressed her bottoms, no admonishment or resistance, I unbuttoned her pants, and my fingers found the wet oyster. 500 baht for a HJ and 1000 baht for everything else. My-Oh-My, Al Gore never had it so good. It was a non-sexual spa, with curtains as a doorway to the room. In the silence, I did hear "oh, my god", and after the twitches and spasms, she smiled and mouthed the word "good".
The traditional tea, the payment to mama-san, and the tip at the door to legitimize the spa session. It was good session for me, and I know she enjoyed it, too. I know the 1000 bhat would go a long way for her for her daily needs. Outside, on the sidewalk, was a food stall set up just for lunch serving southern muslim food, chicken briyani (cumin spiced rice / chicken with fried shallots and cucumbers. Extra order of fresh salad with potato and egg slices ran the bill to 70 baht ($2. 25) , perfect for a post-coital recovery.
Taxi home, somemore coffee, watch some tv, read the paper and found that $250, 000 is not considered rich in America. As my head started to nod and my eyes started to close, I said to myself, "just give $25, 000 and I will make you feel like Donald Trump".
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Obama
+birth+certificate&qpvt=Obama+birth+certificate&FORM=IGRE.
McCain was born in Panama. When did that country become a State. Where is his Birth Certificate. How come nobody cared? He's White.WT,
First, I wasn't aware that Senator McCain was running for President.
Second, McCain was born in Panama while his father was assigned there on a US military tour of duty.
Children born by US government officials or members of the military on official assignment anywhere in the world are by law US Citizens.
Get it?
It would be beneficial to everyone if you would do just a modicum of research before you regurgitate these liberal talking points.
Thanks,
Jackson
TejanoLibre
07-19-12, 01:49
WT,
First, I wasn't aware that Senator McCain was running for President.
Second, McCain was born in Panama while his father was assigned there on a US military tour of duty.
Children born by US government officials or members of the military on official assignment anywhere in the world are by law US Citizens.
Get it?
It would be beneficial to everyone if you would do just a modicum of research before you regurgitate these liberal talking points.
Thanks,
JacksonI watched a kid during his year long appeal on being deported to Panama; his appeal was based on the fact that he was born on a US Military base and that made him an American Citizen
I thought you had to be born ON the US Military Base or on the US Embassy's property for you to be considered an American?
Was the Panama Canal itself ever an American property?
Even leased?
We built and paid for that mosquito, drug money and Colombian Hooker infested Slit of sludge! Paid with Malaria!
McCain is too old to run again!
In essence we would be voting for his running mate knowing that he is bound to kick the bucket soon.
Any ideas on who would be an instant hit with Romney?
TL
WorldTravel69
07-19-12, 11:58
But, He was still born in Panama.
WT,
First, I wasn't aware that Senator McCain was running for President.
Second, McCain was born in Panama while his father was assigned there on a US military tour of duty.
Children born by US government officials or members of the military on official assignment anywhere in the world are by law US Citizens.
Get it?
It would be beneficial to everyone if you would do just a modicum of research before you regurgitate these liberal talking points.
Thanks,
Jackson
Punter 127
07-19-12, 12:05
But, He was still born in Panama.So what, who gives a f*ck?
A lesson in irony.
The Food Stamp Program, administered by the USA Department of Agriculture, is actually proud of the fact it is distributing the greatest amount of free meals and food stamps ever.
Meanwhile, the National Park Service, administered by the USA Department of the Interior, asks us to "Please Do Not Feed the Animals."
Their stated reason for the policy is because the animals will grow dependent on handouts and will not learn to take care of themselves.
This ends today's lesson.
Fantasy land will be here, your real life is better this is just an illousion. Besides I think the place is going to blow up this year. Wait tilll after the riots and anger are done then swoop in with a fist full of dollars.Gh, are you referring to the US or Argentina? 2013 should be the earliest for the US.
But, He was still born in Panama.WT, JM was born on a US military base. A US military base is considered US soil. Hence, he was born in the US. I believe that you can be born on US soil anywhere in the world and be considered a US citizen. BO still needs to explain how he attended college on a foreign national scholarship. I don't believe those scholarships are available to US citizens.
No one can claim that Obama has his priorities wrong. As a gift to his buddy Leonard Dicaprio of Titanic fame Obama personally approved a $529 million dollar stimulus loan to build a luxury hybrid sports sedan known as Karma. This sports sedan was assembled in Finland without employing a single American worker. The only car assembled was given to Leonard Dicaprio. Obama's comment was that $529 million dollars was a small price to pay if Leonard would hold some Hollywood fundraisers for the Obama campaign. Wonder how much of our money Obama has given George Clooney, Brad Pitt and Barbara Streisand.
On an upbeat note, maybe Streisand will make good on her promise to leave the country if Obama loses the election which appears to be a foregone conclusion. There is a rumor that Streisand expects Obama to lose the election and is demanding that Obama use stimulus money to build a chateau on the French Riviera for guess who.
No one can claim that Obama has his priorities wrong. As a gift to his buddy Leonard Dicaprio of Titanic fame Obama personally approved a $529 million dollar stimulus loan to build a luxury hybrid sports sedan known as Karma. This sports sedan was assembled in Finland without employing a single American worker. The only car assembled was given to Leonard Dicaprio. Obama's comment was that $529 million dollars was a small price to pay if Leonard would hold some Hollywood fundraisers for the Obama campaign. Wonder how much of our money Obama has given George Clooney, Brad Pitt and Barbara Streisand.
On an upbeat note, maybe Streisand will make good on her promise to leave the country if Obama loses the election which appears to be a foregone conclusion.Why do you think BO is going to lose the election? BO is still leading in the swing states and he has a huge cushion of swing states he can afford lose, whereas MR has to win almost every single swing state. My opinion is that BO is still heavily favored to win the election. I can normally call an election 8months-1year in advance, but I wouldn't touch this election even in the last week of October. There are too many variables in the world that can swing this election one way or the other.
Wild Walleye
07-20-12, 15:19
Why do you think BO is going to lose the election? BO is still leading in the swing states and he has a huge cushion of swing states he can afford lose, whereas MR has to win almost every single swing state. My opinion is that BO is still heavily favored to win the election. I can normally call an election 8months-1year in advance, but I wouldn't touch this election even in the last week of October. There are too many variables in the world that can swing this election one way or the other.Last time around, Obama won a narrow victory, although it was never reported that way in the press. Since that time, could you please identify one or more demographic constituencies with which his popularity has increased? I can name a few where his popularity has decreased, such as women, Jews, independents, hispanics, blacks and the list goes on. We are looking at a landslide that should give Dukakis and Carter some company on the list of all-time biggest losers. At the end of the day, millions of Americans are having to face the fact that in 2008, for whatever reason, they cast their votes for someone who hates this country, what it stands for and what made it great. Millions of Americans will not make that mistake twice. The numbers are not working in favor of our Glorious Leader, look for Marshall Law to be imposed in October.
My opinion is that BO is still heavily favored to win the election. I can normally call an election 8months-1year in advance, but I wouldn't touch this election even in the last week of October. There are too many variables in the world that can swing this election one way or the other.According to people who put their money where their mouths are, Obama has a 58% probability of winning:
http://www.intrade.com/v4/markets/contract/?contractId=743474
Matt Psyche
07-20-12, 16:24
Every sentence and every word are highly logical and reflective of the poster's intelligence. Well-done.
Last time around, Obama won a narrow victory, although it was never reported that way in the press. Since that time, could you please identify one or more demographic constituencies with which his popularity has increased? I can name a few where his popularity has decreased, such as women, Jews, independents, hispanics, blacks and the list goes on. We are looking at a landslide that should give Dukakis and Carter some company on the list of all-time biggest losers. At the end of the day, millions of Americans are having to face the fact that in 2008, for whatever reason, they cast their votes for someone who hates this country, what it stands for and what made it great. Millions of Americans will not make that mistake twice. The numbers are not working in favor of our Glorious Leader, look for Marshall Law to be imposed in October.
Member #4112
07-20-12, 18:49
Team Obama is trying to knockout Romney before the convention and have thrown everything but the kitchen sink at him for the past month. Team Obama is hoping to after going super negative on Romney three months straight they can turn back to Mr Nice Guy just before the election to make Obama look better. For everything Team Obama has tried they have failed miserably to affect the poll numbers which have remained the same while at the same time folks are starting to get tired of all his negative crap.
Obama is his own worst enemy. A few more 'raise taxes', 'the middle class is doing OK', and this latest blunder 'you didn't build that' will further reduce his chances.
I can guarantee you after the Republican Convention Team Romney is going to start shoving Obama's own words, not only the recent screw-ups but his whole 2008 campaign of 'hope & change', 'most transparent administration', 'a uniter not a divider', 'change to discussion in Washington', 'Obamacare' right up his ass.
Obama consistently polls in the mid to upper 40's when polling the general public and drops to the low to mid 40's when you start talking about likely voters.
Historically those folks who are 'undecided' prior to the vote usually go 75% are greater to the challenger, which means Obama is toast. So if Obama can't get it up to 50% of likely voters by the end of October there is no way he is going to win.
You're whistling past the graveyard with that 58% crap.
Last time around, Obama won a narrow victory, although it was never reported that way in the press. Since that time, could you please identify one or more demographic constituencies with which his popularity has increased? I can name a few where his popularity has decreased, such as women, Jews, independents, hispanics, blacks and the list goes on. We are looking at a landslide that should give Dukakis and Carter some company on the list of all-time biggest losers. At the end of the day, millions of Americans are having to face the fact that in 2008, for whatever reason, they cast their votes for someone who hates this country, what it stands for and what made it great. Millions of Americans will not make that mistake twice. The numbers are not working in favor of our Glorious Leader, look for Marshall Law to be imposed in October.Do you mean martial law? Rioting in the streets?
Big Boss Man
07-20-12, 21:51
What concerns me about Romney is that he has expansionary foreign policy but does not talk about ways to fund the expansion.
Also I am concerned that they will take away the tax in Obamacare but leave the benefits like children on parent's policy until 26 and no preconditions on medical insurance. His economics staff worked in the Bush administration and followed the same policy with the war in Iraq and with expanded pharmaceutical benefit under medicare or whatever benefit my Grandmother was receiving.
I do not think a cut in taxes will lead to a great economic expansion. We are not at the right point of the Laffer curve.
Plus I do not know if I can trust someone who has fucked only one woman in his entire life. He is not my kind. LOL.
Truthfully, unemployment at 9% should be enough to beat Obama.
Of course I live in California and I doubt Romney even bothers to campaign here. My vote literally does not count either way and hasn't for several years. Virginians, Ohioans and Floridians are the actual deciders.
Tequila Tim
07-20-12, 22:41
Do you mean martial law? Rioting in the streets?I think he meant the big O realizing the election is lost and deciding that the general populace is wrong and that he must remain in power whatever way possible. Four years ago I would have thought this scenario impossible. Now? Not so sure.
Wild Walleye
07-20-12, 23:04
Every sentence and every word are highly logical and reflective of the poster's intelligence. Well-done.If you buy me a drink and tip the doorman. Who knows what can happen.
Wild Walleye
07-20-12, 23:08
Do you mean martial law? Rioting in the streets?OK, I admit, I've been spending sometime on the guitar forums, too (been fiddling with my JCM800 and such). I had a brain fart, but I won't go back and correct it, because, I am comfortable with being incorrect, once in a great while and have absolutely no quams about admitting to being human (kinda what got me into this forum to begin with-albeit a human impulse that is located a little further south, if you know what I mean.). Savor the moment, they don't come by very often.
You're whistling past the graveyard with that 58% crap.If I understand that idiom correctly you're the one that's whistling past the graveyard. I am now a proud citizen of the Republic of Dominica. If the USA goes to shit I'm leaving. I don't think that will happen in 2013 as Republicans should at least control the House. But I'm prepared. You're probably not.
Wild Walleye
07-20-12, 23:11
Truthfully, unemployment at 9% should be enough to beat Obama.We're at north of 15, if you use any form of accounting, which is in accordance with GAAP.
Wild Walleye
07-20-12, 23:12
I think he meant the big O realizing the election is lost and deciding that the general populace is wrong and that he must remain in power whatever way possible. Four years ago I would have thought this scenario impossible. Now? Not so sure.Black Shirt was busting my balls for misspelling Martial and he is absolutely correct, I misspelled it. Doesn't change the fact that the only way Obama wins this election is to declare Martial Law and prevent the majority from tossing his ultimate-fail-of-an-ass out of office.
SnakeOilSales
07-20-12, 23:46
Black Shirt was busting my balls for misspelling Martial and he is absolutely correct, I misspelled it. Doesn't change the fact that the only way Obama wins this election is to declare Martial Law and prevent the majority from tossing his ultimate-fail-of-an-ass out of office.Don't be so confident, WW. If Obama gets large black and hispanic turnouts in Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida he will win the election, end of story. In my view this election is a coin flip with Obama the slight favorite against a heavily flawed candidate in Romney. Despite the economic malaise the US is going through, Obama is not a massively unpopular President at this point.
Black Shirt was busting my balls for misspelling Martial and he is absolutely correct, I misspelled it. Doesn't change the fact that the only way Obama wins this election is to declare Martial Law and prevent the majority from tossing his ultimate-fail-of-an-ass out of office.Http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness
WW read the above executive order. BO gave himself dictatorial powers to seize all food, water, transportation, labor, etc. And for any reason he decides, not just wartime. What scares me most about this executive order is that he put it out before the election. The second most thing that scares me is that most people either aren't aware of the executive order or don't believe he will use it.
Last weekend I watched a video presentation about how liberals had taken over conservative foundations and their assets outnumber the conservative foundation assets by 10-1. Pretty intelligent on the part of the liberals. Let your opponent work hard and earn the money and then you come in and spend the money on your activist groups.
But I don't believe BO has to use martial law to win the election. The American public was stupid enough to elect a guy who during his campaign mentioned traveling to 57 of our 59 contiguous states. Of course he mentioned that those states did not include Alaska or Hawaii. BTW, where are those other 11 states and why haven't their stars been added to our flags? Women still favor BO. He just purchased hispanic votes with his immigration actions and he is currently buying Cuban-American votes. Blacks will support him no matter what. He may have lost some independent voters, but he had a large cushion. His tax the rich campgaign theme appears to be popular. BO is selling oil from the Strategic Petroleum Reserve to lower gas prices. He proved during the previous campaign that he is not afraid to use illegal campaign and voter tactics. And he has raised a lot more money than MR and he has more of those funds in reserve.
Aside from the non US events affecting the election, BO's seems to be in good shape.
Part of the reason Romney is struggling is because of the faltering efforts at deception Republicans are clearly engaged in. No doubt they continue this effort because they have lured many into their upside down world, and hope to lure a few more. When you see people equating raising taxes with theft, and claiming that Obama hates America, you know the kool-aid is working. Fortunately, most people see such right wing messaging for the rubbish it is.
Romney was stumping this week on the quote from Obama that businessmen "didn't build that". Of course Obama was refering to the infrastructure that has helped many businesses, but the way he phrased it gave Romney an opening to distort it. Now if someone really believed businessmen weren't involved in building their businesses, such a person would be an idiot and undeserving of public office.
It might seem surprising that Romney ran with this, but it isn't really. Deception is a core strategy on the right, and Obama's statement came at a convenient time, when Romney was getting pummeled by questions about Bain Capital and his taxes. The result? Multiple speeches and quickly made commercials from Romney. Apparently Romney thinks you're stupid enough to believe this, or at the very least, that there are enough stupid people who might believe it and give him a boost in the polls.
Some people will believe Romney and think "Obama really is clueless about business.". Romney is depending on this demographic. But for those who think for themselves, Romney's argument is bogus, and he comes across as little more than a con-man. Not a surprise from a man who has a long, clear record of saying anything to get elected.
Texas Tornado
07-21-12, 01:16
Part of the reason Romney is struggling is because of the faltering efforts at deception Republicans are clearly engaged in. No doubt they continue this effort because they have lured many into their upside down world, and hope to lure a few more. When you see people equating raising taxes with theft, and claiming that Obama hates America, you know the kool-aid is working. Fortunately, most people see such right wing messaging for the rubbish it is.
Romney was stumping this week on the quote from Obama that businessmen "didn't build that". Of course Obama was refering to the infrastructure that has helped many businesses, but the way he phrased it gave Romney an opening to distort it. Now if someone really believed businessmen weren't involved in building their businesses, such a person would be an idiot and undeserving of public office.
It might seem surprising that Romney ran with this, but it isn't really. Deception is a core strategy on the right, and Obama's statement came at a convenient time, when Romney was getting pummeled by questions about Bain Capital and his taxes. The result? Multiple speeches and quickly made commercials from Romney. Apparently Romney thinks you're stupid enough to believe this, or at the very least, that there are enough stupid people who might believe it and give him a boost in the polls.
Some people will believe Romney and think "Obama really is clueless about business.". Romney is depending on this demographic. But for those who think for themselves, Romney's argument is bogus, and he comes across as little more than a con-man. Not a surprise from a man who has a long, clear record of saying anything to get elected.You state your personal beliefs with such conviction that you assume that lends a modicum of credence to them. But don't think for a moment that any of us ascribe any value to your thoughts.
Http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/03/16/executive-order-national-defense-resources-preparedness
WW read the above executive order. BO gave himself dictatorial powers to seize all food, water, transportation, labor, etc. And for any reason he decides, not just wartime. What scares me most about this executive order is that he put it out before the election. The second most thing that scares me is that most people either aren't aware of the executive order or don't believe he will use it.Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the right depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the right wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.
From the link below: This executive order is based in part on the Defense Production Act of 1950, which mobilized America for the Korean War. Basically that law granted the Executive branch of government broad authority in the economy: to compel businesses to sign contracts to produce goods for the national defense, to set wage and price controls, especially on raw materials, and to even requisition property that might be useful for national defense. The Act has been reauthorized many times, most recently in 2008 by President Bush, who had previously re-authorized it in 2003. President Clinton did the same in 1994. If you read the order from Obama, it delegates Authority previously conferred on the President, to others. So it can be argued Obama is reducing the power of the President, not increasing it.
Don't fall for bs Republican conspiracy theories.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-19/politics/31209114_1_water-resources-respect-secretary
When you see people equating raising taxes with theft...you know the kool-aid is working.I live in Texas. I pay state and local taxes, as imposed by the elected representatives in my community and in my state, to pay for schools, roads, police, and medical care for the indigent. I have no problem with that, as those services are provided reasonably efficiently and as the level of taxation isn't extortionate.
Pelosi, Reid and other politicians I did not elect propose to tax me at the rates in excess of 40% and in return will provide diddly squat. Virtually nothing. They'll help pay for the interstate highways and airports with my money. That's about it, in terms of services I use.
Just exactly why isn't this theft? A lot of people would argue that you're the one drinking the kool-aid. That would include the founders of the country, if they were still alive:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boston_Tea_Party
WorldTravel69
07-21-12, 03:52
What Grade Did You Get To, that your brother Republicans Don't What You to Get Too? Maybe with a Mind to think for yourself?
The Rich want all us equal to the rest of us poor.
WorldTravel69
07-21-12, 04:03
Toymann Maybe you might Need It?
Matt Psyche
07-21-12, 04:06
One of the factors supporting the idea of replacing the E college system with a direct vote system.
My vote literally does not count either way and hasn't for several years. Virginians, Ohioans and Floridians are the actual deciders.
What Grade Did You Get To, that your brother Republicans Don't What You to Get Too? Maybe with a Mind to think for yourself?
The Rich want all us equal to the rest of us poor.WT,
With all due respect, anyone who writes this incoherently has no standing to question anybody's schooling.
Thanks,
Jackson
California is Setting Up the Health Care For AllReally?
So how exactly are they going to pay for this?
Or is that not a consideration?
Part of the reason Romney is struggling is because of the faltering efforts at deception Republicans are clearly engaged in. No doubt they continue this effort because they have lured many into their upside down world, and hope to lure a few more. When you see people equating raising taxes with theft, and claiming that Obama hates America, you know the kool-aid is working. Fortunately, most people see such right wing messaging for the rubbish it is.
Romney was stumping this week on the quote from Obama that businessmen "didn't build that". Of course Obama was refering to the infrastructure that has helped many businesses, but the way he phrased it gave Romney an opening to distort it. Now if someone really believed businessmen weren't involved in building their businesses, such a person would be an idiot and undeserving of public office.
It might seem surprising that Romney ran with this, but it isn't really. Deception is a core strategy on the right, and Obama's statement came at a convenient time, when Romney was getting pummeled by questions about Bain Capital and his taxes. The result? Multiple speeches and quickly made commercials from Romney. Apparently Romney thinks you're stupid enough to believe this, or at the very least, that there are enough stupid people who might believe it and give him a boost in the polls.
Some people will believe Romney and think "Obama really is clueless about business.". Romney is depending on this demographic. But for those who think for themselves, Romney's argument is bogus, and he comes across as little more than a con-man. Not a surprise from a man who has a long, clear record of saying anything to get elected.Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the left depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the left wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.
Wild Walleye
07-21-12, 12:09
Part of the reason Romney is struggling is because of the faltering efforts at deception Republicans are clearly engaged in. No doubt they continue this effort because they have lured many into their upside down world, and hope to lure a few more. When you see people equating raising taxes with theft, and claiming that Obama hates America, you know the kool-aid is working.Says the Kool-aid guzzling champion of the world.
Fortunately, most people see such right wing messaging for the rubbish it is.I live in a very blue state and I hear complete dissatisfaction with Obama, from my fellow statesmen, all the time. The big difference is in how people view the 'why' of his miserable failure. Most people don't want to believe the truth. That his destruction of America is deliberate. So long as they don't vote for him in November, I don't care if they believe the truth.
Romney was stumping this week on the quote from Obama that businessmen "didn't build that". Of course Obama was refering to the infrastructure that has helped many businesses,Did you even listen to the speech or any of the other similar, Marxist-populist blather he sprays around, like Fred Willard in an adult theater? He absolutely said it and he absolutely clarified that he was not just referring to the infrastructure (which BTW, was built 100% by TAXPAYER money).
but the way he phrased it gave Romney an opening to distort it.Do you drink it straight or on the rocks?
Now if someone really believed businessmen weren't involved in building their businesses, such a person would be an idiot and undeserving of public office.Why then don't you vote for Romney?
It might seem surprising that Romney ran with this,What? Your opponent, in an American presidential election, tells the world that entrepreneurship is a myth and that collectivism is the only way forward and you think he should ignore it? I wish you were running Obama's campaign.
but it isn't really. Deception is a core strategy on the right,That's right, Mr. Alinsky. When they throw the truth at you, baffle them with bullsh*t and call them names.
and Obama's statement came at a convenient time,It was his most recent "Joe the Plumber" moment when he goes off script and gives the world a glimpse of who he really is and what he really thinks. If he was honest with the people in 2007-08, he never would have been elected in the first place.
when Romney was getting pummeled by questions about Bain Capital and his taxes.Pummeled? According to the polls, only you and the main stream media give a rat's ass about those two non-issues. Romney has been far more transparent that Obama. Maybe when we see all the info behind Fast & Furious, a situation in which the US Attorney General (or senior members of his staff) were legally complicit in more than 2, 000 felonies (knowingly allowing firearms to cross the boarder into Mexico) and the murders of 300 Mexicans and two US agents. I think that is a little more relevant than disclosing tax years that are not required.
The result? Multiple speeches and quickly made commercials from Romney. Apparently Romney thinks you're stupid enough to believe this, or at the very least, that there are enough stupid people who might believe it and give him a boost in the polls.Whatever it is, it's working. Check the polls.
Some people will believe Romney and think "Obama really is clueless about business.".Why do people need to believe Romney when they can believe their own eyes? The truly sad thing is that Obama isn't clueless. His economic destruction is deliberate.
Romney is depending on this demographic. But for those who think for themselves, Romney's argument is bogus, and he comes across as little more than a con-man. Not a surprise from a man who has a long, clear record of saying anything to get elected.Romney wasn't my guy, until he got the de facto nomination. I'd vote for Homer J. Simpson over Obama, any day. It is heart warming to see that you still have no substance to any of your arguments and that you have never put a single factual reference in any of your posts to actually back up the spittle that you spray.
Wild Walleye
07-21-12, 12:19
What Grade Did You Get To, that your brother Republicans Don't What You to Get Too? Maybe with a Mind to think for yourself?
The Rich want all us equal to the rest of us poor.You're killing me. I hate to take issue with someone who has done so much for me.
However, I would suggest that, during a quiet, post-coital moment sipping cafe and dining on demi lunas, that you jot down on a napkin two lists. The first should be impediments (of any kind) to individual success in America and the latter should be keys to individual success in America. Afterwards, you can ponder who wants you to succeed and who wants you firmly ensconced in a monolithic voting block.
BYW, if we are in town, at the same time (late Aug-Sept, I think), I'm buying and I will gladly listen to your political beliefs. Who knows, maybe I can repay your extensive efforts by setting you straight.
Monger on!
Wild Walleye
07-21-12, 12:24
Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the left depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the left wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.Jackson, as you know I like facts to back up my arguments. Could you provide some examples of things from the left that weren't false?
If liberals were honest with the voters, they would be a tiny minority of our elected officials, relegated mostly to municipal positions and the Congressional seats of our most liberal cities. If Esten or any of our other resident liberals would be so kind as to provide an example of a successful liberal campaign that ran truthfully on a liberal platforms extolling liberal principals, I'd appreciate it.
More plagiarism from Jackson, taking my statement and substituting "right" with "left". He's done this before. You'll notice when I referred to doing more research, I actually then presented research which proved a Republican talking point to be false. But Jackson doesn't present any research to refute my points. So his attempt to be cute only reinforces the point about a lack of substance from the right.
Big Boss Man
07-21-12, 12:48
I got a good laugh over this poster. http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/564526_448426308513042_431389878_n.jpg Bill is definitely more my type of guy than either of the family men Obama or Romney. For you Republicans, yeah I know if Dole had been elected 9-11 would not have occurred. Reagan had the reputation as great cocksman in his younger Hollywood days.
I live in Texas. I pay state and local taxes, as imposed by the elected representatives in my community and in my state, to pay for schools, roads, police, and medical care for the indigent. I have no problem with that, as those services are provided reasonably efficiently and as the level of taxation isn't extortionate.
Pelosi, Reid and other politicians I did not elect propose to tax me at the rates in excess of 40% and in return will provide diddly squat. Virtually nothing. They'll help pay for the interstate highways and airports with my money. That's about it, in terms of services I use.
Just exactly why isn't this theft?Taxation is a legal and economic necessity to pay for government programs and debt. No single taxpayer gets to choose exactly how tax dollars are spent, or to ensure all their tax dollars will benefit them personally. The best you can do is vote for those whose views on spending most closely match your own. If a different party wins the election, and they spend on programs their voters wanted, they are not stealing from you. You just ended up in the minority of a democratic process.
That is how our system works. Only someone focused on themselves, a 'What's in it for me? ' mentality, is going to characterize this as theft.
BTW, it's not just spending. We have a few trillion in debt to pay as well. A debt that came partly from increased spending from Obama, but mostly from Bush unfunded legacy spending, and Bush Tax Cuts and the recession which significantly defunded the government. That recession was largely attributable to conservative free-market policies. Greed is good, right? You know where that money went? Mostly into the pockets of the very wealthy. This country is getting screwed by Wall Street and the likes of Mitt Romney.
Wait till the ads come out en masse on the Romney-supported spending cuts to balance the budget (except for Defense, which he wants to increase). That will be the nail in the coffin for him. Check the polls, voters will never accept deep cuts to Medicare and other benefits, to pay for more tax breaks for the wealthy. Only a sucker would support such a policy.
WorldTravel69
07-21-12, 13:59
I don't know what came over me, to stoop down to Toymann's level.
WT,
With all due respect, anyone who writes this incoherently has no standing to question anybody's schooling.
Thanks,
Jackson
Pummeled? According to the polls, only you and the main stream media give a rat's ass about those two non-issues. Romney has been far more transparent that Obama.Well then, why have several Republicans, including on Fox News, been calling for Romney to release more tax returns? Why is Obama revealing the names of his bundlers, but Romney isn't? As usual, your statements are inconsistent with the facts. Behind your eloquent writing, unfortunately lies a man still gripped with ODS. Welcome back Walleye.
BTW these issues aren't going away. Romney's past business experience and tax returns are highly relevent, they provide insight into his values and his views on business. What they both tell us is Romney is a profiteer, not a job creator.
Member #4112
07-21-12, 14:12
Please stop Esten, your killing me. I fell out of my chair I was laughing so hard from your most recent posts. I may have injured myself.
Team Obama's Bain Capital B / S:
Even the Washington paper's own fact checker in addition to your favorite liberal fact checker site has said the exporting jobs thing is totally false but the liberals keep pushing it. Add to that the total B / S of the SEC filings, even Team Obama knows it's B / S but they are still putting it out there hoping someone believes it. Do you think for one second the SEC would not be all over Romney if one word of it was true?
Taxes:
Oh I just love this one. With 49+% of the folks NOT PAYING ANY income tax and the other 50+% of the folks paying it all and you want to harp on how 'fair' it is to keep raising taxes on the 'rich' which is now anyone making over $200K a year. I can only assume you know nothing about business since profits get plowed back into the company for expansion, if you tax the profit away no expansion ie no jobs.
Deficit:
When you started talking about raising taxes to pay off the debt, that's the one I fell out of my chair on. Obama has generated a $1 Trillion dollar + deficit every year he has been in office. It's the spending stupid! No matter how much you raise taxes the spending out strips it every time. Spending has to be cut and that is the only way to end this cycle.
All the arguing will be over come Nov 7th.
If Team Obama continues the way they are going, Europe continues to slide, and unemployment remains above 8%, Obama is toast. I have not seen one forcaster who believes Europe, the US economy nor unemployment will make any improvement before the elction.
Never confuse personality with pocketbook when it come to getting elected Folks vote their pocketbooks when times are hard!
Monger on Dudes
Wild Walleye
07-21-12, 14:23
Well then, why have several Republicans, including on Fox News, been calling for Romney to release more tax returns? Why is Obama revealing the names of his bundlers, but Romney isn't? As usual, your statements are inconsistent with the facts.The facts are that Romney has been far more transparent than the Liar in Chief and has complied with all necessary election laws. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it true, whether it is Fox News, Republicans or Democrats. We do know, however, that if it comes out of Obama's mouth, it is rarely true.
Behind your eloquent writing, unfortunately lies a man still gripped with ODS.Will Cipro clear that up?
Welcome back Walleye.It's good to be back.
BTW these issues aren't going away. Romney's past business experience and tax returns are highly relevent, they provide insight into his values and his views on business.The tax returns that he is required to disclose, are already public. No one seems to care about what is in them. He should not release any more and I believe most intelligent people would agree, it just plays into the opposition. If they can ask for things that are not required, when will it stop? It won't. It is a form of extortion and it knows no end.
What they do provide is insight into what one can achieve in America. I bet far more Americans would like to file a tax return like those as opposed to taking Obama's food stamps.
His values? I don't think that there is any comparison. The people will decide.
What they both tell us is Romney is a profiteer, not a job creator.I guess I would be happy with someone who just isn't a job destroyer like Obama. If it weren't for removing a couple million people from the calculation of unemployed, the rate would be over 10%. The real rate of unemployed and under employed is north of 17%. That's a lot of people (3-5x the margin of Obama's '08 victory) with time on their hands to think about whether or not they want four more years of this bullsh*t.
Wild Walleye
07-21-12, 14:34
There is one reason and one reason only you never hear anyone on Team Obama mention the word "deficit." That is because he has increased it more than all the presidents before him, combined. He cannot defend anything in his record. He won't even mention Obamacare, which is supposed to be his great achievement and legacy.
His increases to the deficit were purely partisan payoffs and an attempt to cripple the country he despises by creating an unsustainable level of debt. The deficit under Obama has increased by $4. 7T which is nearly 50% of the deficit, the day he took office. His deficits will be $10T in 10 years, $20T in 20 years, $40T in 30 years, $80T in 40 years and so one, without any further governmental action. And without including the cost of Obamacare.
That's a good one, Esten. The deficit. Now, I have to wipe up the coffee that I blew out my nose when I read your post.
Big Boss Man
07-21-12, 15:24
Even the Washington paper's own fact checker in addition to your favorite liberal fact checker site has said the exporting jobs thing is totally false but the liberals keep pushing it. Add to that the total B / S of the SEC filings, even Team Obama knows it's B / S but they are still putting it out there hoping someone believes it. Do you think for one second the SEC would not be all over Romney if one word of it was true?Since the two of the key businesses that Romney made his fortune on were Staples and Dominos obviously he did not export jobs. I do not need a fact checker to figure that one out. However, Romney does include in his 100, 000 jobs created those two companies. I am not dumb enough to believe that I could not buy office supplies or have a pizza delivered without those two companies. Give Romney credit that he bought out the original entrepreneurs and improved the business so that each holds significant if not dominate market share. Often entrepreneurs are great idea men but lousy managers. My Dad knew Harold Butler (airplanes parked on the same hanger row) who started Winchells and Dennys among other businesses. Butler was brilliant idea man but a horrible manager. If you read his history most of the businesses he created are now run by private equity similar to Bain.
Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the right depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the right wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.
From the link below: This executive order is based in part on the Defense Production Act of 1950, which mobilized America for the Korean War. Basically that law granted the Executive branch of government broad authority in the economy: to compel businesses to sign contracts to produce goods for the national defense, to set wage and price controls, especially on raw materials, and to even requisition property that might be useful for national defense. The Act has been reauthorized many times, most recently in 2008 by President Bush, who had previously re-authorized it in 2003. President Clinton did the same in 1994. If you read the order from Obama, it delegates Authority previously conferred on the President, to others. So it can be argued Obama is reducing the power of the President, not increasing it.
Don't fall for bs Republican conspiracy theories.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2012-03-19/politics/31209114_1_water-resources-respect-secretaryIt states in the EO that it is from the Defense Production Act, that is not news. So if Bush and Clinton, two of the Presidents responsible for wrecking our economy have issued similar executive orders then its ok? The difference between BO & Clinton / Bush is that BO has the type of personality that would use this order on the American Public. The drones have been authorized for a reason.
BO expanded the EO to include the Dept of Homeland the Security. The same DHS whose head has labled people who believe in state's rights as terrorists and the same DHS that has purchased hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition. Between the Patriot Act, this EO, and the plethora of other laws passed in the last few years, all in the name of protecting us, I feel far less safe than ever before.
Gato Hunter
07-21-12, 16:37
The law was mainly put in to keep certain machines or processes (ie big sumbitches that no body makes anymore) up and running to keep domestic production possible.
Although 95% of all carbon fiber used in all sorts of defense shit is made in japan, there is one loom in texas thats it.
Making shafts and propellers for navy ships is also another do do bird waiting to happen.
Bright side is we make more tritium than any other country, and export it, to the UK mainly.
I once had to move a vey large machine cross country and dealt with the defense dept wanting to know where it was going and what it would be used for the company also had to tell the DOD if they were going to shut it down. Its still up and running today making shit that goes o China for damns LOL
SnakeOilSales
07-21-12, 16:52
Since the two of the key businesses that Romney made his fortune on were Staples and Dominos obviously he did not export jobs. I do not need a fact checker to figure that one out. However, Romney does include in his 100, 000 jobs created those two companies. I am not dumb enough to believe that I could not buy office supplies or have a pizza delivered without those two companies. Give Romney credit that he bought out the original entrepreneurs and improved the business so that each holds significant if not dominate market share. Often entrepreneurs are great idea men but lousy managers. My Dad knew Harold Butler (airplanes parked on the same hanger row) who started Winchells and Dennys among other businesses. Butler was brilliant idea man but a horrible manager. If you read his history most of the businesses he created are now run by private equity similar to Bain.Wow, Staples and Dominos pizza, fine examples of the "plethora" of borderline minimum wage jobs that Romney has "created", all the while destroying jobs that a family could actually be supported on ($40-$50k year). This is exactly what Romney and the slimebag Republicans like Wally Wallbanger want and envision for the USA: ship all jobs overseas that actually pay a living wage and replace them with a workforce employed in the burgeoning retail and fast food industries. Romney and his supporters want a country of "Lords of the Manor" loyally served by their "serfs" working for $10 / hour in a dead end job with no retirement or health benefits. Last time I checked it wasn't nurses, teachers, firefighters, and municipal workers who crashed the economy; it was greedy Gordon Gekkos like Mitt Romney who think that it's ok to use pension funds and retirement accounts for their reckless riverboat gambling schemes.
Wow, Staples and Dominos pizza, fine examples of the "plethora" of borderline minimum wage jobs that Romney has "created", all the while destroying jobs that a family could actually be supported on ($40-$50k year). This is exactly what Romney and the slimebag Republicans like Wally Wallbanger want and envision for the USA: ship all jobs overseas that actually pay a living wage and replace them with a workforce employed in the burgeoning retail and fast food industries. Romney and his supporters want a country of "Lords of the Manor" loyally served by their "serfs" working for $10 / hour in a dead end job with no retirement or health benefits. Last time I checked it wasn't nurses, teachers, firefighters, and municipal workers who crashed the economy; it was greedy Gordon Gekkos like Mitt Romney who think that it's ok to use pension funds and retirement accounts for their reckless riverboat gambling schemes.You are trying to sell some snake oil. Even Obama and Paul Krugman wouldn't agree about the outsourcing in their heart of hearts. Obama is saying it though, to get votes. The USA has the highest standard of living of any country in the world with a poplulation over 5 million. One reason is because of free trade. We export lower paying jobs and keep the value added work here. American manufacturing actually has been growing in recent years. This trend would accelerate if USA corporations were allowed to repatriate foreign profits and re-invest them in the USA without paying extortionate taxes. Also if school systems were reformed to train more skilled workers instead of trying to send everyone to universities to get liberal arts degrees. Unfortunately that's not going to happen as long as Democrats are in power.
Romney did the exact opposite of what you describe for pension funds for public employees. Bain has produced good returns for the pension funds that invest with it. Raiding retirement funds is what the left does, like Cristina Kirchner and Hugo Chavez.
WT69, You're right, kind of. While I did get to a high grade, I only had one professor who was a Marxist, and only a few college classes that weren't related to science. So I guess I'm not qualified to think for myself, and should let others do that for me.
I cannot understand why anyone would criticize Romney for his knowledge of the economy. Romney took businesses which were going bankrupt and tried to save them. If not for romney those businesses would have failed with every employee losing their jobs, pension funds and their peace of mind.
Most entities that try to save distressed businesses have a success rate of about 20% - 80% of the businesses still fail while 20% survive. Romney had a success rate of over 70%.
Of course, to someone like Obama whose solar powered, wind assisted, federally funded lemonaide stand failed - Romneys success is something Obama could never even imagine.
And to criticize Romney because he saved pizza businesses and office supply businesses as well as high tech businesses reveals a strange intellect or lack of intellect that only Obama supporters could understand.
It is so ludicrous that Bill clinton has stated that romney not only has a genuine understanding of business and the economy but also that romney helped employees who were going to lose their jobs as well as helping the economy in general.
But then again, Obama thinks only the government is responsible for an individuals success which explains why Obama will always be a disaster for our economy.
Member #4112
07-22-12, 00:07
While there are many jobs openings out there they are for people with skills. Sorry liberal arts majors and morons need not apply, they need people with REAL skills who can actually do something.
A minimum wage job under Romney is better than what Obama wants. Obama wants you dependent on the government, on welfare, or unemployment and using food stamps to insure you never leave the Federal Plantation.
Fall to your knees brothers and sisters before the second coming; he has come to take care of you and all your needs and he will tell what those needs are. All hail the Ruling Elite, All hail Obama.
At least until Nov 7th
Wild Walleye
07-22-12, 01:06
Wow, Staples and Dominos pizza, fine examples of the "plethora" of borderline minimum wage jobs that Romney has "created", all the while destroying jobs that a family could actually be supported on ($40-$50k year). This is exactly what Romney and the slimebag Republicans like Wally Wallbanger want and envision for the USA: ship all jobs overseas that actually pay a living wage and replace them with a workforce employed in the burgeoning retail and fast food industries. Romney and his supporters want a country of "Lords of the Manor" loyally served by their "serfs" working for $10 / hour in a dead end job with no retirement or health benefits. Last time I checked it wasn't nurses, teachers, firefighters, and municipal workers who crashed the economy; it was greedy Gordon Gekkos like Mitt Romney who think that it's ok to use pension funds and retirement accounts for their reckless riverboat gambling schemes.I guess we all know which you would chose between minimum wage and Obama-stamps. By the way, real businesses that don't get Obama-bucks (Solyndra et al) actually have to turn a profit in order to stay in business. Way to go, let's get rid of all the people who know how to do something right!
SnakeOilSales
07-22-12, 04:54
I cannot understand why anyone would criticize Romney for his knowledge of the economy. Romney took businesses which were going bankrupt and tried to save them. If not for romney those businesses would have failed with every employee losing their jobs, pension funds and their peace of mind.
Most entities that try to save distressed businesses have a success rate of about 20%.80% of the businesses still fail while 20% survive. Romney had a success rate of over 70.
Of course, to someone like Obama whose solar powered, wind assisted, federally funded lemonaide stand failed. Romneys success is something Obama could never even imagine.
And to criticize Romney because he saved pizza businesses and office supply businesses as well as high tech businesses reveals a strange intellect or lack of intellect that only Obama supporters could understand.
It is so ludicrous that Bill clinton has stated that romney not only has a genuine understanding of business and the economy but romney helped employees who were going to lose their jobs as well as helping the economy in general.
But then again, Obama thinks only the government is responsible for an individuals success which explains why Obama will always be a disaster for our economy.I am not criticizing Romney for saving pizza and office supply businesses; I am criticizing Romney for bragging about saving and creating jobs in those industries, which are nothing more than borderline minimum wage jobs that offer little or no opportunity for advancement or benefits. Obama's support for the auto industry bailouts, on the other hand, actually saved / created REAL jobs that pay an actual living wage with health benefits AND both of the auto manufacturers that accepted bailouts are now profitable.
SnakeOilSales
07-22-12, 05:13
I guess we all know which you would chose between minimum wage and Obama-stamps. By the way, real businesses that don't get Obama-bucks (Solyndra et al) actually have to turn a profit in order to stay in business. Way to go, let's get rid of all the people who know how to do something right!Solyndra was a disaster; end of story. Obama deserves blame for wasting tens of billions of the taxpayer's money, much in the same mode that Bush deserves the blame for wasting more than $1 TRILLION dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan due to poor accounting, over invoicing, corruption, and graft. There is probably about $1 TRILLION dollars sitting in private bank accounts in Dubai that has been siphoned off from the war / reconstruction effort in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Tell the board honestly, WW, if you would recommend your family, friends, or even yourself to work at either Staples or Dominoes pizza. Do you think you could make enough money delivering pizzas to pay a mortgage, your own health insurance, send your kids to college, and maybe take a family vacation once a year? Who do you think its in a better financial position; the dominoes pizza guy, or the GM factory worker? Do you believe (be honest) that the average American even deserves these basic niceties, or that they should just live in a trailer and only earn enough money to feed themselves on a daily ration of fast food?
Member #4112
07-22-12, 10:53
Snake, your getting as bad as Esten or perhaps as good a keeping us laughing.
So here is the nexus of the argument between you and us terrible conservatives:
According to your posts its better for a person to remain on the Federal Plantation receiving welfare / unemployment, food stamps and Medicaid than to take charge of your life and get a job if it is for minimum wage?
Speaking of GM, what a success story, taking taxpayer money to build a car no one wants, except Obama wants to outfit the entire federal fleet with Volts, screwing the debt holders and handing their share of the company to the unions, while playing a shell game with finances – paying one federal loan off with proceeds from another. Chrysler is even better, selling it off to Fait who is not too happy with the bargain now.
Another good belly laugh is those sterling individuals at GM may find themselves 'rich' under Obama's definition. If they are a two wage earner family at almost anything but an entry level job at GM they are making more the $250K a year. Don't you remember the little played interview with one GM and one Chrysler line employee? They were grousing back in 2008 about what a bad year it had been because they only made $98K that year. I think that got about two plays on the air before they ditched it, since it was hard to feel sorry for folks making that much money.
This is illuminating. According to Obama entry level jobs are worthless and receiving welfare is better than accepting entry level jobs.
I worked in pizza joints, hamburger joints and had a paper route and was happy to have these jobs. They were entry level jobs and they were essential to me. I saved the money I earned for college.
Good grief, the atmosphere of entitlement that Obama is fostering is terrifying.
By the way, it is not hard to understand why Obama defiles entry level jobs. Probably because Obama has never had a real job in his life. entry level or otherwise.
Another example of the importance of doing your own research. As I keep saying, the left depends heavily on the propagation of lies, deception and conspiracy theories. Every single thing from the left wing should be assumed to be false, until proven otherwise.
More plagiarism from Jackson, taking my statement and substituting "right" with "left". He's done this before. You'll notice when I referred to doing more research, I actually then presented research which proved a Republican talking point to be false. But Jackson doesn't present any research to refute my points. So his attempt to be cute only reinforces the point about a lack of substance from the right.Esten,
I was mocking you, but apparently I was too subtle.
Thanks,
Jackson
Bush deserves the blame for wasting more than $1 TRILLION dollars in Iraq and Afghanistan due to poor accounting, over invoicing, corruption, and graft.Yea, what a waste that was, decimating Al Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghanistan, and subsequently liberating 40 million people from the throes of a murderous dictator in Iraq.
It states in the EO that it is from the Defense Production Act, that is not news. So if Bush and Clinton, two of the Presidents responsible for wrecking our economy have issued similar executive orders then its ok? The difference between BO & Clinton / Bush is that BO has the type of personality that would use this order on the American Public. The drones have been authorized for a reason.
BO expanded the EO to include the Dept of Homeland the Security. The same DHS whose head has labled people who believe in state's rights as terrorists and the same DHS that has purchased hundreds of millions of rounds of ammunition. Between the Patriot Act, this EO, and the plethora of other laws passed in the last few years, all in the name of protecting us, I feel far less safe than ever before.Funny how you guys operate. You originally came on here blazing with your claim "BO gave himself dictatorial powers". Then when I put it in context, you respond oh yeah, that's in the EO, that is not news.
Now that the birther conspiracy has been discredited, the GOP needs a new conspiracy to feed the gullible. Looks like "drones spying on Americans" falls in that category. I went looking for a photo, all I found was one photoshopped photo showing one flying near some cows. It's clearly photoshopped. Only a fool would fall for their shit.
Ironically, the House GOP passed a bill that orders the FAA to develop regulations for the testing and licensing of commercial drones. Republicans have raised some concerns about privacy, but they support this emerging industry. I guess it would be anti-business not to.
Dccpa, it sounds like you are simply determined to believe in Obama conspiracy theories, no matter what.
With Bin Laden and numerous other al-Qaida leaders now taken out, I personally feel more safe than before.
The US Department of Energy has at least 3 programs, which have guaranteed loans totalling about $38 Billion:
46% through the 1705 program
30% through the 1703 program
24% through the ATVM (Advanced Technology Vehicle Manufacturing)
These programs are estimated to have created 63000 jobs, to have contributed to the drop in solar energy costs (making solar energy more economically viable, benefitting US consumers and businesses), and giving the US a stronger footprint in this growth industry, rather than letting China completely dominate.
Solyndra was funded $500 Million through the 1705 program, which represents about 1.3% of the total portfolio.
Focusing only on Solyndra, is like focusing on the small mole on Scarlett Johannson's cheek.
I cannot understand why anyone would criticize Romney for his knowledge of the economy. Romney took businesses which were going bankrupt and tried to save them. If not for romney those businesses would have failed with every employee losing their jobs, pension funds and their peace of mind.
Most entities that try to save distressed businesses have a success rate of about 20%.80% of the businesses still fail while 20% survive. Romney had a success rate of over 70.
Of course, to someone like Obama whose solar powered, wind assisted, federally funded lemonaide stand failed. Romneys success is something Obama could never even imagine.
And to criticize Romney because he saved pizza businesses and office supply businesses as well as high tech businesses reveals a strange intellect or lack of intellect that only Obama supporters could understand.
It is so ludicrous that Bill clinton has stated that romney not only has a genuine understanding of business and the economy but also that romney helped employees who were going to lose their jobs as well as helping the economy in general.
But then again, Obama thinks only the government is responsible for an individuals success which explains why Obama will always be a disaster for our economy.Of course Romney has business experience. So does Donald Trump. That doesn't qualify them to be President. We need to vote on the values and policy positions of the candidates.
And this is why Clinton supports Obama, not Romney. Clinton is on record that Romney would be "calamitous for our country and the world." He also said Republicans' "economics are wrong-headed and their politics are worse."
Clinton knows what he is talking about.
And your last statement is a complete lie. Obama believes individuals are responsible for their success, but in many cases, the government has also contributed to that success.
Esten.
I am with Jackson. Listening to you is similar to listening to a talking rock, talking marshmellow or a potted plant that talks. You just don't get it.
The government did not contribute to anybodies success. Whatever the government has done, build roads etc was done by the private sector with the taxes the private sector paid. The government has no, none as in 0 income except for what the government extorts from the private sector.
SnakeOilSales
07-22-12, 19:32
This is illuminating. According to Obama entry level jobs are worthless and receiving welfare is better than accepting entry level jobs.
I worked in pizza joints, hamburger joints and had a paper route and was happy to have these jobs. They were entry level jobs and they were essential to me. I saved the money I earned for college.
Good grief, the atmosphere of entitlement that Obama is fostering is terrifying.
By the way, it is not hard to understand why Obama defiles entry level jobs. Probably because Obama has never had a real job in his life. Entry level or otherwise.This is exactly the point. Entry level jobs are ideal for high school and college kids and everybody works in those types of jobs when they are at that point in their life. However, they simply do not pay nearly enough to raise a family on. Romney has no business raving about creating these kinds of jobs when they are, almost by definition, dead end borderline minimum wage jobs.
They are jobs and important to the people who have them. Unfortuneately, Obama prevents the creation of jobs at any level.
I can see it now. Obama wants to eliminate entry level jobs in order to get the real unemployment rate over 20%. Whoops, we are already there. One more step in Obama's plan to destroy the economy of the United states.
But i am giving Obama too much credit. Obama isn't purposely destroying the economy of the united states. Destroying the economy of the united states is simply a by product of Obama's inexperience, total lack of knowledge of the how economies function and throw in heaping spoonfuls of incompetence and lack of intelligence.
Punter 127
07-23-12, 21:41
New polls show Americans increasingly have serious doubts about the president's ability to do his job, particularly when it comes to the economy.
• In a poll for The Hill. 66% of Americans now believe chronic high joblessness and slow economic growth are due to bad policy and most — 34% — blame Obama. Just 18% fault George W. Bush, Democrats' preferred villain. By 53-42, voters say Obama has followed the wrong policies and hurt the economy.
• After Obama's insulting remarks, a Rasmussen Poll shows 72% "believe small business owners (are) primarily responsible" for their success. And 57% think entrepreneurs "do more to create jobs and economic growth than big businesses or government."
• Despite Obama's repeated attacks on Mitt Romney's business background, another new poll shows Americans increasingly see Romney as a can-do alternative to a bumbling Obama. By a 63-29% margin, a USA Today-Gallup Poll finds Americans "say Romney's background in business. Would cause him to make good decisions, not bad ones" on the economy.
In short, the ballot-box Teflon may be wearing thin for Obama. We're not surprised.
http://news.investors.com/article/619197/201207231913/obama-shows-vulnerability-on-economic-issues-in-new-polls.htmPerhaps American voters are finally waking up.
Member #4112
07-23-12, 22:26
So Snake, your position is it is better to be on unemployment / welfare / food stamps than take an entry level / minimum wage job if a person does not fall into one of your "its OK" catagories?
What makes you think anyone is "entitled" to better than entry level / mimimum wage jobs if they fit into your niches?
The government did not contribute to anybodies success. Whatever the government has done, build roads etc was done by the private sector with the taxes the private sector paid. The government has no, none as in 0 income except for what the government extorts from the private sector.And the long, long list of things that governments do for society, for their constituents, none of that would have happened if governments did not exist.
I am beginning to appreciate the deep patience Jane Goodall must have had.
Who said this in 2002 ?
You Olympians, however, know you didn't get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We’ve already cheered the Olympians, let’s also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities.
Esten.
Whatever the government does is paid for by the private sector. The government is great at wasting/spending other peoples money. And, as Margaret Thatcher said, sooner or later the government runs out of other peoples money to waste/spend.
I think it is about time the private sector told the government thanks but no thanks. Don't call us, when we need help from the government, we will call you.
Who said this in 2002 ?I don't know who said that, but whoever said it was obviously a lot more intelligent than Obama (who isn't more intelligent than Obama) because the person who said it clearly recognized that the government had nothing to do with their success.
Ok, I give up, what brillant mind said this? Probably someone you admire. Maybe even your role model.
WorldTravel69
07-24-12, 01:07
I Hope You Are Watching the Series The Newsroom.
It is kind of Honoring the Real American Newscasters of the Past. Edward R. Murrow, etc.
The show is reviewing the latest events of Our History.
http://www.hbo.com/the-newsroom/index.html
http://www.pbs.org/wnet/americanmasters/episodes/edward-r-murrow/this-reporter/513/
SnakeOilSales
07-24-12, 01:35
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/23/mitt-romney-foreign-income_n_1695806.html?fb_action_ids=4199259300586%2C10150980882717946%2C10100640920616854%2C4194565143235&fb_action_types=news. Reads&fb_ref=type%3Aread%2Cuser%3AYAF3o71x4_xiVaJp_VWtk4KXHjQ%2Cfb_opengraph&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%224199259300586%22%3A10151954611735174%2C%2210150980882717946%22%3A10150869645163638%2C%2210100640920616854%22%3A10150991696548773%2C%224194565143235%22%3A10150955423996229%7D.
Worth a read even though it's from that "liberal rag" the Huffington Post.
WorldTravel69
07-24-12, 04:30
Remember this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/11/glass-steagall-act-the-se_n_201557.html
Member #4112
07-24-12, 09:36
WT69 who can argue with such sound research as the Huffington Post and a make believe HBO series?
WorldTravel69
07-24-12, 12:58
Yes, it is a make believe program, but the news they report really happened. And may or may not have been reported on FOX.
WT69 who can argue with such sound research as the Huffington Post and a make believe HBO series?
Remember this.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/05/11/glass-steagall-act-the-se_n_201557.htmlI would have clicked the "thanks" button for your post if it didn't have a link to a clip of Red Rachel Maddow. A better solution than Glass Steagall would have been to go ahead and let different types of financial companies merge, but take away FDIC insurance from those that do. And let the investment banks fail. If customers know there's real risk of failure, that they may lose their funds and won't be able to count on insolvent financial institutions as counterparties, then you won't have institutions that are too big to fail.
I would have clicked the "thanks" button for your post if it didn't have a link to a clip of Red Rachel Maddow. A better solution than Glass Steagall would have been to go ahead and let different types of financial companies merge, but take away FDIC insurance from those that do. And let the investment banks fail. If customers know there's real risk of failure, that they may lose their funds and won't be able to count on insolvent financial institutions as counterparties, then you won't have institutions that are too big to fail.For being nominated as Finance Czar. And can you tell why my credit card rates range from 12-17% and I can't get even 1% for my saving account. Legal loan-sharking? You know, like those legal ticket brokers / agencies as compared to the scalpers outside the stadium. Anyway, the motivation is the same, but one wears a $1500 suit and graduates from Georgetown, and the other wears a football jersey and comes from Compton. Supply & Demand, I really have no problems with that. But people get caught up with all that glamour, yachts, cigars, Cannes, you know what I mean.
My apologies to Compton, the hometown of tennis greats, the Williams sisters who are a class act, especially Vanessa. But most guys seem to swoon about Sharapova, I never understood why.
Big Boss Man
07-24-12, 18:43
For being nominated as Finance Czar. And can you tell why my credit card rates range from 12-17% and I can't get even 1% for my saving account. Legal loan-sharking? You know, like those legal ticket brokers / agencies as compared to the scalpers outside the stadium. Anyway, the motivation is the same, but one wears a $1500 suit and graduates from Georgetown, and the other wears a football jersey and comes from Compton. Supply & Demand, I really have no problems with that. But people get caught up with all that glamour, yachts, cigars, Cannes, you know what I mean.
My apologies to Compton, the hometown of tennis greats, the Williams sisters who are a class act, especially Vanessa. But most guys seem to swoon about Sharapova, I never understood why.Duke is my all time favorite ballplayer.
Who said this in 2002 ?Esten.
I would like to know the author of that quote. Obviously someone you admire a lot. I have gone through all the likely suspects who may have been your role models in the past. Barney Franks, Barabara Streisand, Teddy Kennedy, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Anthony Weiner and even Barrack Obama but none of these likely suspects has the intelligence to pen such an eloquent statement. Plus, all the role models you have frequently quoted in the past have been more or less shiftless morons.
Well, at the very least, congratulations. You may have turned the corner and finally gotten out of the gutter by alligning yourself with a solid person with sound values. Whoever this person you quoted may be.
His / her name. Please.
My real guess is Ronald Reagan but I am not sure Ronald Reagan was at the 2002 Olympics.
Duke is my all time favorite ballplayer.And I am no spring chicken. I started with Don Drysdale, Maury Wills, Willie Davis, etc.
I think it is about time the private sector told the government thanks but no thanks. Don't call us, when we need help from the government, we will call you.When will the businessman make that call:
When they can't get to work because the roads and traffic systems have failed?
When a business deal falls through because a key investor could not get a flight or a visa?
When they experience a workplace fire that cannot be contained?
When the mail doesn't get delivered?
When the store is looted by thieves?
When customers don't come because of gangs or prison inmates in the streets?
When customers don't come because they didn't get their unemployment / disability / SS checks?
When customers don't come because their investments have been wiped out or stolen?
When workers call in sick because of food poisoning?
When workers call in sick because of toxins in the water supply?
When workers call in sick from taking a bad dose of medication?
When they can't find workers with adequate education?
When will the businessman make that call:
When they can't get to work because the roads and traffic systems have failed?
When a business deal falls through because a key investor could not get a flight or a visa?
When they experience a workplace fire that cannot be contained?
When the mail doesn't get delivered?
When the store is looted by thieves?
When customers don't come because of gangs or prison inmates in the streets?
When customers don't come because they didn't get their unemployment / disability / SS checks?
When customers don't come because their investments have been wiped out or stolen?
When workers call in sick because of food poisoning?
When workers call in sick because of toxins in the water supply?
When workers call in sick from taking a bad dose of medication?
When they can't find workers with adequate education?What does this remind me of? Yes! Of course! Cristinaland! Everything you wrote applies to Argie land, Do you live here too?
For being nominated as Finance Czar. And can you tell why my credit card rates range from 12-17% and I can't get even 1% for my saving account. Legal loan-sharking? You know, like those legal ticket brokers / agencies as compared to the scalpers outside the stadium. Anyway, the motivation is the same, but one wears a $1500 suit and graduates from Georgetown, and the other wears a football jersey and comes from Compton. Supply & Demand, I really have no problems with that. But people get caught up with all that glamour, yachts, cigars, Cannes, you know what I mean.I agree with what you wrote, except I don't understand the last sentence. Just as we try to protect children and the insane, we should try to protect those stupid enough to be enticed by legal loan sharks. I have a couple of friends who were effectively paying 25% or 30% interest on credit cards after late payment penalties. The morality of the consumer credit department at J. P. Morgan Chase is at about the same level as a crack dealer. Even being Finance Czar, I can't solve your problems. You have to do that yourself. If you're paying credit card rates at 12% to 17%, you should either declare bankruptcy, or stop your mongering trips and get a second job until you've paid off your cards.
I have no problem with people or companies who scalp tickets. Do you, and if so why?
Esten.
I know you might not have anything better to do but I don't think you should sit by the phone waiting for the call until you do the following.
1) until you convince Michelle to open her wallet and repay us the tens of millions/hundreds of millions of dollars she spent on extravagant vacations with entourages of thousands.
2) until Obama opens his wallet and repays us the $600 million dollars he spent to build one luxury sedan for his buddy Leonardo Dicaprio. Built, I might add, in finland without employing a single american worker.
3) until Obama opens his wallet and repays us the trillions of dollars he wasted on his political cronies to build now bankrupt solar energy companies.
4) until Obama opens his wallet and repays us the trillions of dollars of stimulus money that did not improve the economy.
5) until you give Obama a pair of scissors and have him cut in two that credit card we gave him
6) and most important, until you have a heart to heart with Obama and explain to Obama that you have some good news and some bad news. The good news is that Obama proved beyond a doubt that the Peter Principal is well and alive. Obama, as predicted by the Peter Principal, was elevated to a position way over his level of competency. The bad news is that Obama needs to go, immediately, and be replaced by someone with an understanding of business and economics.
Until then do yourself a favor and don't waste your time waiting for a call
When will the businessman make that call:
"When they can't get to work because the roads and traffic systems have failed?"
Too bad no one invented private toll roads. Oh wait, they have.
"When a business deal falls through because a key investor could not get a flight or a visa?"
No government = no need for a visa. And there are these inventions called emails, internet, faxes, video teleconferencing that often eliminate the need for a flight. Wasn't when the government deregulated the airlines, that fares came down and more flights became available?
"When they experience a workplace fire that cannot be contained?"
Before big government we had citizens and volunteer firefighters who pitched in and fought the fires.
"When the mail doesn't get delivered? The postal system is doing so well that they are considering privatising it. It is a shame that no one invented orivate delivery companies like UPS, Fedex, etc.
When the store is looted by thieves?"
Yes with big government, we no longer have any robberies. We have changed the term to asset reallocation.
"When customers don't come because of gangs or prison inmates in the streets?"
They would most certainly come to see the business owners and their hired guns shoot the gang members or prison inmates.
"When customers don't come because they didn't get their unemployment / disability / SS checks?"
Wasn't there commerce before the advent of unemployment and disability? How did those people get money? I believe they knew they had to work.
"When customers don't come because their investments have been wiped out or stolen?"
Yes, big government is certainly preventing theft of funds by companies like M F Global and PFG Best.
"When workers call in sick because of food poisoning?"
I didn't realize that food poisoning had been eliminated. Have they closed down all Chinese restaurants?
"When workers call in sick because of toxins in the water supply?"
Why in the old days, the citizens would foolishly rush out and hang the owners of the polluting business. Now with big government citizens, can be confident that the water supply will be cleaned up in a few decades. Much better solution.
"When workers call in sick from taking a bad dose of medication?"
Don't you realize that this potentially life saving medication might make you ill? Good thing big government stopped you from taking it.
"When they can't find workers with adequate education?"
Yes, the quality of our average student is so high thanks to big government. I do not understand why private businesses are paying to have workers trained. Don't these businesses understand that big government knows what skills these employers need and is insuring that all of the graduating students are literate and well educated?Whatever did mankind do before big government? Oh wait, everthing worked anyway.
Pop Quiz from Esten.
Who said this in 2002?
You Olympians, however, know you didn't get here solely on your own power. For most of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers, encouraged your hopes, coaches guided, communities built venues in order to organize competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them. We've already cheered the Olympians, let's also cheer the parents, coaches, and communities.
Esten is refusing to tell us the answer to his pop quiz. Just when we think Esten has aligned himself with a sound, constructive person with solid values Esten refuses to tell us who his new role model is.
Anyway, Esten has turned the corner. Obviously Estens new role model has had a real job, has been successful and has not spent a lifetime pandering to those who choose not to work. This eliminates 99% of Estens prior role models. Throw is the fact that the person who penned the above quote is obviously intelligent eliminates 100% of Estens prior role models.
I have personally eliminated possible suspects such as Barney Franks, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Anthony Weiner, Eliot Spitzer and Barak Obama on the grounds they are unitelligent shiftless morons.
Leading candidates for the author of the above quote are Ronald Reagan, Margaret Thatcher and Clint Eastwood
Esten, please, who is your new role model?
Esten.
I could go on the internet and find out who said the quote you posted as a pop quiz. Of course, that would be cheating. It is a pop quiz afterall and we play by the rules.
My guess is Ronald Reagan. Is that correct?
Anyway, I was very impressed with the sentiments of whoever penned that quote. Obviously someone we should all look up to.
Please don't tell me it was one of your prior role models who fulfill all the qualifications of shiftless morons. Barney Franks, Nancy Pelosi, Harry reid, Eliot Spitzer, Anthony Weiner or Barak Obama.
I agree with what you wrote, except I don't understand the last sentence. Just as we try to protect children and the insane, we should try to protect those stupid enough to be enticed by legal loan sharks. I have a couple of friends who were effectively paying 25% or 30% interest on credit cards after late payment penalties. The morality of the consumer credit department at J. P. Morgan Chase is at about the same level as a crack dealer. Even being Finance Czar, I can't solve your problems. You have to do that yourself. If you're paying credit card rates at 12% to 17, you should either declare bankruptcy, or stop your mongering trips and get a second job until you've paid off your cards.
I have no problem with people or companies who scalp tickets. Do you, and if so why?Buyer beware! Perhaps, creidit cards should have death warning notices like cigarette packages!
Perhaps, I should write about consumerism and self destruction. Why is it that Americans do not save? Why save when you can borrow so easily? And so on. So here we are in 2012 with our feet in cow manure. So is it the culture or is it the poeple, or are they not the same? And the banks just pay the millions in fines quite happily because they are a pittance of what their profit margins are. In the boardroom, there are laugher and champagne as bonuses and share incentives are met.
And so the working ants continue to amass their debts in their desperate belief that they cannot be happy unless they possess x, y, and z. Personal responsibility, yes of course. That is basic, and that comes from where? Kim Kardashian & family?
No, I have no problem with ticket scalpers. I paid for a few Olympic trips doing just that. And I have no problem with anybody's luxurious lifestyle. Just courrpted corporate behavior and their defenders.
By the way, your title as Financial Czar was meant to be complimentary. And your advice has been noted and implemented.
Perhaps, I should write about consumerism and self destruction. Why is it that Americans do not save? Why save when you can borrow so easily? And so on. So here we are in 2012 with our feet in cow manure. So is it the culture or is it the poeple, or are they not the same? And so the working ants continue to amass their debts in their desperate belief that they cannot be happy unless they possess
X, why, and z. Personal responsibility, yes of course. That is basic, and that comes from where? Kim Kardashian & family?Being a Libertarian, who believes people should be free to do whatever they want as long as it doesn't hurt others, I'm loath to admit this. But a lot of Americans need something like a gun pointed toward their heads to make them save. Something like the Central Provident Fund (CPF) in Singapore, where 35% of an employee's gross wages go into savings to pay for retirement, medical expenses, and housing. I agree completely with your thoughts about consumerism, savings and debt. And the Kardashians.
As expected, not a single intelligent response to my long list of government-provided services. Services that have been demanded by and are provided for the private sector. Services that most Americans value and would object strongly if it were ever proposed to take them away.
Everyone here understands this; some are just too proud to admit it (or too stubborn in their ideology).
I could go on the internet and find out who said the quote you posted as a pop quiz. Of course, that would be cheating. It is a pop quiz afterall and we play by the rules.
My guess is Ronald Reagan. Is that correct?Nope. Mitt Romney made that Olympics quote in 2002, where he included praise for communities that built venues to hold competitions. In case you missed it, that's a reference by-and-large to governments that funded such venues with taxpayer dollars. Yep, Romney acknowledged the role of governments in helping Olympians succeed.
Reagan supported closing tax loopholes for millionaires. Check the video below. According to various reports, Romney used virtually every trick (loophole) in the book to reduce his taxes. Reagan would likely have been calling for Romney to release more tax returns, to expose the very loopholes that Reagan wanted to end. Romney's no Reagan, he's much worse.
Reagan-No Loopholes For Millionaires
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cgbJ-Fs1ikA
Tequila Tim
07-26-12, 01:53
Esten,
I agree that government supplies many useful platforms to support buisness. Infrastructure, rule of law, and stable currency are prerequisites for a functional free enterprise system. But, these very support mechanisms are in danger of dissolving due to the unsustainable debt this administration is piling up year after year. There will be a breaking point if the current trends continue. When the rest of the world (which supports half of our spending) decides enough is enough, it's game over. The support network will no longer be viable. Nothing about this current administration leads me to believe that they acknowledge this inevitablity. The dismissal of the Simpson-Bowles commission was the confirmation of it's irresponsibility in my mind. Since I KNOW that this administration is not serious about preventing the bankrupcy of the country, I have to be a supporter of an alternative approach.
When will the businessman make that call:
1. When they can't get to work because the roads and traffic systems have failed?
2. When a business deal falls through because a key investor could not get a flight or a visa?
3. When they experience a workplace fire that cannot be contained?
4. When the mail doesn't get delivered?
5. When the store is looted by thieves?
6. When customers don't come because of gangs or prison inmates in the streets?
7. When customers don't come because they didn't get their unemployment / disability / SS checks?
8. When customers don't come because their investments have been wiped out or stolen?
9. When workers call in sick because of food poisoning?
10. When workers call in sick because of toxins in the water supply?
11. When workers call in sick from taking a bad dose of medication?
12. When they can't find workers with adequate education?With regard to your comment that there has not been "a single intelligent response to my long list of government-provided services", I agree that some of the services on your list are important and are provided efficiently by my state and local governments. I do not believe we are getting value from the federal government FOR THE 24% OF GDP that it consumes. Almost one out of every 4 dollars spent in America is spent by the federal government. Specifically,
1. This infrastructure is provided by state and local government, not federal government.
2. The USA federal government makes it difficult for foreign businessmen, investors, students and tourists to get visas. We're losing out to other countries because of this.
3. Provided by local government, ditto to "1" above.
4. The USPS is one of the most inefficient businesses on the planet.
5. Ditto "1", state and local government function
6. Ditto "1", state and local government function
7. Paying people not to work decreases productivity. The USA social security system is a Ponzi scheme. Madoff does the same thing in the private sector and he goes to jail.
8. A legitimate service provided by Federal government that should be continued. But how much of the federal government does this represent? And how good is it at doing this job? Fannie and Freddie screw investors and taxpayers, aided big time by the federal government. Madoff goes unchecked for over 10 years after his scheme is brought to the attention of the SEC. We spend hundreds of billions of dollars and suffer through a recession because regulators and politicians were asleep at the wheel, allowing financial institutions and home buyers to engage in monkey business during the last couple of decades.
9. Ditto "1", state and local government function
10. Ditto "1", state and local government function
11. I agree.
12. Ditto "1", state and local government function
Good Tiny, an intelligent response. Yes several things are provided by local and state governments, but the Republican attack on government is often an attack on all forms of government. I'd agree their main issues are with the federal government though. Almost half of the 24% GDP figure are SS & Medicare, which are very popular among Americans, and which Americans PAY INTO. Really, tell us what specifically you'd cut, and how much it would save.
The government has been significantly defunded, and we have a bigger revenue problem than a spending problem.
TT mentioned an alternative approach. But Republicans seem to be the ones running away from the debt issue lately. They want to extend all tax cuts, and reverse the sequester Defense cuts. They are appealing to fear and pride for the latter. Both measures will delay addressing our debt. What's their proposal for addressing the debt? Ryan's unpopular Medicare voucher program?
Republicans are running out of rope in their mission to protect the wealthy. They might have to choose between the wealthy and Defense. A few smart Republicans have started backing off from the "no compromise" position. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of them twist. This promises to be every bit as entertaining as the election itself.
Esten.
Thanks for the answer to the pop quiz.
I always suspected you were a closet Romney supporter. Thanks for coming out.
Member #4112
07-26-12, 13:05
Credit Cards.
Esten I'm sure you are one of those who believe pencils misspell words not the people using them to put up such an argument regarding credit card rates. People sign a contract with the credit card company that clearly outlines the charges they will incur for carrying a balance, if they are late, ect. If the form is too complicated or long for them to bother to read then they are too stupid to even have a credit card. The credit card companies don't hold a gun to anyone's head and force them to charge. If you can't control your spending impulses then you should not have a line of credit, it's just that simple.
It boils down to that one little trait liberals hate, personal responsibility. If you get in trouble with a credit card it's your fault and no one else's. Don't blame the banks.
Debt.
Esten if you took all the earnings from everyone making over $200K per year it would not even pay off Obama's deficit for this year much less pay down the national debt. Your position is just plain raw class warfare. Run the numbers my friend, to plagiarize Bill Clinton somewhat:
IT'S THE SPENDING STUPID!
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