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Anybody know of a local lawyer with a knowledge of finance?
I'm in an ongoing fight with LAN and Mastercard that's gone round in enough circles and it's time to go legal on their arses.
Anybody know of a local lawyer with a knowledge of finance?
I'm in an ongoing fight with LAN and Mastercard that's gone round in enough circles and it's time to go legal on their arses.Lawyers here are WORTHLESS! Most don't have any idea what they are doing and they all charge a large percentage of what they think the case is worth. They dont want to work by the hour. You are better off getting a lawyer from where ever you live. (hopefully its not here!)
Lawyers here are WORTHLESS!I'd kind of assumed that would be mostly true, which is why I came on here looking for a recommendation!
Yes, I live here. :
Gato Hunter
04-04-13, 10:44
Will take a long time here.
Lawyers here are WORTHLESS! Most don't have any idea what they are doing and they all charge a large percentage of what they think the case is worth. They dont want to work by the hour. You are better off getting a lawyer from where ever you live. (hopefully its not here!)And where you are coming from, lawyers are "very affordable", always tell you exactly the cost to resolve any issue, and "extremely honest".
Wild Walleye
04-04-13, 13:16
PM Miami Bob and if he feels so inclined, he might provide you with a good one.
It's none of my business but, the amount in question would need to be fairly large to make this worth while. Also, the suggestion of doing it in the USA, if possible, is a good one. The legal system in Argentina makes the US look fast and efficient. Also, the outcome is often determined before things get started, if you know what I mean.
LAN, in Argentina, have ripped me off by taking more cash than they should have from my Argentinian Mastercard issued by HSBC, in Argentina, for tickets purchased in Argentina for flights from Argentina. I live in Argentina. Everything I own, everything I do, is in Argentina. I have no connections with the USA (and never have). I no longer have any connections with the UK, having only even visited once in the last 6 years.
I think, what I need, is an Argentinian lawyer!
I would hope, as WW suggests, that a letter 'threatening' legal action from a lawyer will hopefully be enough. They've been passing the buck, blaming each other, for the last 6 months and they're no longer listening to anything that I'm saying.
LAN, in Argentina, have ripped me off by taking more cash than they should have from my Argentinian Mastercard issued by HSBC, in Argentina, for tickets purchased in Argentina for flights from Argentina. I live in Argentina. Everything I own, everything I do, is in Argentina. I have no connections with the USA (and never have). I no longer have any connections with the UK, having only even visited once in the last 6 years.
I think, what I need, is an Argentinian lawyer!
I would hope, as WW suggests, that a letter 'threatening' legal action from a lawyer will hopefully be enough. They've been passing the buck, blaming each other, for the last 6 months and they're no longer listening to anything that I'm saying.Such a shame you are having this issue. Not sure if an argentine based MasterCard is different from a US based card, BUT, if this happened to me I would just decline the charge. End of story and then LAN would have to come to you, no lawyer needed, to resolve the dispute (which MasterCard would mediate, and they know who there customer is! Did you not have this option with you argentine based MasterCard? Just curious. Toymann.
LAN, in Argentina, have ripped me off by taking more cash than they should have from my Argentinian Mastercard issued by HSBC, in Argentina, for tickets purchased in Argentina for flights from Argentina. I live in Argentina. Everything I own, everything I do, is in Argentina. I have no connections with the USA (and never have). I no longer have any connections with the UK, having only even visited once in the last 6 years.
I think, what I need, is an Argentinian lawyer!
I would hope, as WW suggests, that a letter 'threatening' legal action from a lawyer will hopefully be enough. They've been passing the buck, blaming each other, for the last 6 months and they're no longer listening to anything that I'm saying.I'm also curious. Are you talking (approximately) about $500 bucks or $50,000 bucks?
Such a shame you are having this issue. Not sure if an argentine based MasterCard is different from a US based card, BUT, if this happened to me I would just decline the charge. End of story and then LAN would have to come to you, no lawyer needed, to resolve the dispute (which MasterCard would mediate, and they know who there customer is! Did you not have this option with you argentine based MasterCard? Just curious. Toymann.Mastercard told me in January that they were going to sort it out on my behalf. When I called them last week to ask them what was going on they said the matter had been resolved and closed 2 months ago and there's nothing further they can do as the problem is with LAN. They were worse than useless, and having failed to inform me that they'd washed their hands of the issue, have cost me 2 months.
I'm also curious. Are you talking (approximately) about $500 bucks or $50,000 bucks?The charge should have been USD350 for a cancelled ticket and they've taken USD1100. Actually they're STILL taking it, because it's coming out in quotas! Mastercard didn't even suspend the quotas whilst they were supposedly investigating.
So it's 'only' 700 bucks. Are you suggesting I just say "oh fcuk it, I'll let them have it"?
So it's 'only' 700 bucks. Are you suggesting I just say "oh fcuk it, I'll let them have it"?I am writing this on the assumption that you have paid the MC bill and it is too late to dispute the charge. I also learned the hard way. That is one reason that I automatically dispute a questionable charge as soon as it appears on my monthly bill.
I do not know how much Argentina lawyers charge, but in the USA $700 will barely get you in a good lawyer's door. MC and LAN have lawyers on their staff who deal with these things on a regular, routine basis, and whose job it is to make the little guy pay. It may leave a sour taste in your mouth, but unless Argentina law makes MC and / or LAN liable for your legal fees, the cheapest alternative is probably just to walk away, and chalk it up to experience.
Tres3.
And where you are coming from, lawyers are "very affordable", always tell you exactly the cost to resolve any issue, and "extremely honest".You OBVIOUSLY have not had the misfortune to need a lawyer in Argentina! They are worse then useless, they are outright thieves! Although I am sure there are one or two somewhere that are honest, good luck finding them!
Spassmusssein
04-04-13, 21:12
- for amounts like that.
If a lawyer writes a Carta Documento for you, he charges in between 150 to 250 Pesos. Usually you need two CD, as they may answer the first = P.S. 300.500.
If he achieves a deal without going to court he will charge 2000 to 4000 P.S.
If he has to go to court, at least P.S. 4000.- plus 15 to 20 % of the result.
That is why they are doing nothing as they know, you will not find anyone.
Forget the money, it is never away, just somebody else has it.
TejanoLibre
04-04-13, 21:39
- for amounts like that.
If a lawyer writes a Carta Documento for you, he charges in between 150 to 250 Pesos. Usually you need two CD, as they may answer the first = P.S. 300.500.
If he achieves a deal without going to court he will charge 2000 to 4000 P.S.
If he has to go to court, at least P.S. 4000.- plus 15 to 20 % of the result.
That is why they are doing nothing as they know, you will not find anyone.
Forget the money, it is never away, just somebody else has it.I found a LIAR here in BA that I used for a problem at my Resto and he charged me 6000 p for the first letter that he sent to the judge. The judge laughed because the law that my attorney was quoting had NOTHING to do with my case. So I went back to the Liar's office and he wanted 4000 p extra to write another letter!
Turns out that he is a Liar that specializes in Sports Law for the national soccer team. Did not even get free tickets!
My flight down here cost me $28,000.00 DOLLARS in Liar's fees so $700.00 would be a steal!
TL.
I know 2 guys on this board that could introduce you to an honest and gifted attorney but I don't think it would be worth the attorney's time.
I think It would also be impossible to avoid the Gringo Rate .
walk away, and chalk it up to experience.
Forget the moneySo, the received wisdom here is that if a company adds a random USD700 on to their credit card charge. Just let them have it.
I'm not sure I'm living on the same planet as the rest of you!
Where are you drawing the line? How much do they have to steal from you before you start to get upset enough to try and do something about it?
TejanoLibre
04-04-13, 23:33
So, the received wisdom here is that if a company adds a random USD700 on to their credit card charge. Just let them have it.
I'm not sure I'm living on the same planet as the rest of you!
Where are you drawing the line? How much do they have to steal from you before you start to get upset enough to try and do something about it?I was perturbed when someone burned me for $18,000.00 dollars (easy come easy go) and I was disappointed when a Chica abused my debit card but I got really pissed-off when that little S.O.B stuck a gun to my head and relieved me of my $25,000 dollar watch!
I guess what really made me mad was knowing that he was going to trade it for a few rocks! The worst is when someone steals your stash! Very uncool!
Was it the money? Not really, it's the principal of the matter. A Chica Bar in Recoleta swiped my card through their card reader and a receipt did not come out so they told me that it was not working and that I had to pay cash. Big Ugly Bouncer followed me to the A.T.M and we walked back and I paid the bill.
1 month later I received my statement and the bar had charged me triple, twice on my card when the machine was not working and once in cash! Maybe only 1000 but that REALLY made me mad, like you are at this moment I'm sure. I went back to the bar 5 times to speak to the manager that was always on his way, even at 3 or 4 am so I was losing even more money on roundtrip taxis, getting madder! A free drink every time I went but so what!
Finally gave up but in the end my bank returned the card swipes.
700.00 dollars is not chump change but I don't know what an attorney will cost you or what he can do.
Good Luck,
TL.
So, the received wisdom here is that if a company adds a random USD700 on to their credit card charge. Just let them have it.
I'm not sure I'm living on the same planet as the rest of you!
Where are you drawing the line? How much do they have to steal from you before you start to get upset enough to try and do something about it?Keep closer track of your credit card dude. By your own admission you thought it was handled and two months later you found out your case was closed and you had been screwed. What happened between January and last week?
Mastercard told me in January that they were going to sort it out on my behalf. When I called them last week to ask them what was going on they said the matter had been resolved and closed 2 months ago and there's nothing further they can do as the problem is with LAN. They were worse than useless, and having failed to inform me that they'd washed their hands of the issue, have cost me 2 months?
As they say in America, let the buyer beware. Your feeling that MasterCard should have been better at handling your issue may be fair, but YOU need to be your own advocate and at a minimum monitor the process of your dispute. It's very easy and can be done online.
I run pretty damn large monthly balances on my two credit cards that are always paid off in full each month. Over the past 20 years I have challenged maybe 4 or 5 charges. In each instance of disputed charges the credit card company has removed the charge from my bill immediately and adjusted the monthly bill to exclude the charge. Round 1. I log onto my account online and verify this after my phone contact pertaining to the initial dispute. Then the card company inform me sometime later as to the status of the dispute, often looking for more feedback before making a final determination. In all of my aforementioned disputes, I have never seen the original disputed charge be recharged to my account. Most often, the fraudulent charger of my card just backs down and its over. In a few other cases MasterCard just told the fraudulent charger to pound salt and it was over.
You mention more charges from LAN where added to your card. You didn't pick this up dude and challenge them immediately as they occurred, shortly after they hit your account. Again, suggest you monitor your account more closely. Not meant has a flame dude, just some friendly advise. Enough said about managing your credit cards.
One final word regarding pursuing this 700 dollar issue using a lawyer. IALOTFLMAO! Don't throw good money after bad buddy. If you are looking to fight the good fight, them more power to you. Just expect to spend 3 to 4 times your loss, then end up with nothing, but you can say you fought the good fight. You make the call. Good luck. Toymann.
You OBVIOUSLY have not had the misfortune to need a lawyer in Argentina! They are worse then useless, they are outright thieves! Although I am sure there are one or two somewhere that are honest, good luck finding them!I didn't have the misfortune to need a lawyer in Argentina? Well, Actually I had used their services several times, (mostly real estate cases), and I was gratified with the results with the exception of two cases that went down the drains.
Remember that lawyers (no all!) are like "chicas". They charge base on the case, (cola incluida? BBBJ? Who the client is, (watch out here! And they will try to get the most for less.
Just like the "chica" or a car salesman, they play with your emotions and whether you look like you have pesos, dollars or euros.
Bring a "Porteno" friend with you, or things are going to be difficult.
The truth is, the law does not work in Argentina. Under the current Government its only getting worse, the president abuses the law as much as many criminals. A normal law suit can easily be delayed up to 10 years legally. Then at the last minute the send you a order to appear that you never receive (because the post office doesn't work either) and then the case is thrown out because you did not appear. Argentinos do not use banks when they can avoid it. This includes credit cards, if they can avoid it (they use them for free interest for 1,000000000 cuotas) There is a reason. Most "cases" are ended with a compromise with the lawyer taking up to 50% of what they got you. You end up with less then the lawyer. Since this is a 'Local" matter, Argie business and Argie bank, try the consumer protection board. I have had fairly good luck with them, and they are free.
The truth is, the law does not work in Argentina. Under the current Government its only getting worse, the president abuses the law as much as many criminals. A normal law suit can easily be delayed up to 10 years legally. Then at the last minute the send you a order to appear that you never receive (because the post office doesn't work either) and then the case is thrown out because you did not appear. Argentinos do not use banks when they can avoid it. This includes credit cards, if they can avoid it (they use them for free interest for 1,000000000 cuotas) There is a reason. Most "cases" are ended with a compromise with the lawyer taking up to 50% of what they got you. You end up with less then the lawyer. Since this is a 'Local" matter, Argie business and Argie bank, try the consumer protection board. I have had fairly good luck with them, and they are free.Maybe it doesn't work for you because of luck of knowledge, connections, money, time, and God knows what else.
Remember O.J. Simpson? If a "regular" dude would be the one in that trial, he would certainly spend his life in jail. What save his ass? Was it money?, a "TEAM" of ultra-expensive lawyers?, fame etc.?
Did the law worked there? You tell me!
Maybe it doesn't work for you because of luck of knowledge, connections, money, time, and God knows what else.
Remember O.J. Simpson? If a "regular" dude would be the one in that trial, he would certainly spend his life in jail. What save his ass? Was it money?, a "TEAM" of ultra-expensive lawyers?, fame etc.?
Did the law worked there? You tell me!Every one knows he bought his way out. The famous punch line of him saying to the judge "thank you for everything, now if you would give me my gloves and shoes (I don't remember, it was shoes or socks or something) I will be on my way" He bought his way out, he could afford it, and a lot of people sympathized with him because his wife was a all out *****. Thats not what is happening here. From what I understand the poster is trying to recoup money with out spending more then he is owed. 'Justice" is a illusive thing in this country. That and Argentinos are masters of "Trucho". Yes more attention should have been paid with a faster followup. I really think that at this point his best option is the consumer protection board, unless some one else has a better idea? For example, does any one know if there is a "small claims court" here like there is in the states?
Every one knows he bought his way out. The famous punch line of him saying to the judge "thank you for everything, now if you would give me my gloves and shoes (I don't remember, it was shoes or socks or something) I will be on my way" He bought his way out, he could afford it, and a lot of people sympathized with him because his wife was a all out *****. Thats not what is happening here. From what I understand the poster is trying to recoup money with out spending more then he is owed. 'Justice" is a illusive thing in this country. That and Argentinos are masters of "Trucho". Yes more attention should have been paid with a faster followup. I really think that at this point his best option is the consumer protection board, unless some one else has a better idea? For example, does any one know if there is a "small claims court" here like there is in the states?Thomaso276 should probably weigh in on this because he has used the "consumer protection board" a couple of times, most notably to persue a claim with a local cellphone company. As he described it to me, the process is very much weighted towards the consumer, and that the cellphone companies specifically are called in before the "consumer protection board" on a daily basis to answer complaints from consumers.
Thanks,
Jackson.
Remember O.J. Simpson? If a "regular" dude would be the one in that trial, he would certainly spend his life in jail. What save his ass? Was it money?, a "TEAM" of ultra-expensive lawyers?, fame etc.?I call it the "Million Dollar Defense". In the USA, anyone who can afford to spend a million dollars on their defense will rarely go to prison (not to be confused with a "jail", which is a local lockup facility for short timers). In the name of expediency, members of the law enforcement system routinely trample over alleged offender's rights and routinely ignore constitutional "niceties" because they know that 99% of said alleged offenders will not have the resources to make any of these things an issue. Thus, anyone with the financial resources to actually defend themselves (usually meaning that they can make an issue with whatever sloppy practices were employed during the investigation and arrest) is rarely convicted.
Thanks,
Jackson.
Thanks Gandolf50 and Jackson. The "consumer protection board" sounds like it might be a good option.
The charge should have been USD350 for a cancelled ticket and they've taken USD1100. Actually they're STILL taking it, because it's coming out in quotas! Mastercard didn't even suspend the quotas whilst they were supposedly investigating.
So it's 'only' 700 bucks. Are you suggesting I just say "oh fcuk it, I'll let them have it"?This is about a cancelled airline reservation paid for on a credit card? Unless the ticket purchased is coded full fare and refundable, your shit out of luck. When you cancel a reservation, you pay a penalty and they credit you the remaining dollars in the form of a travel voucher. Airlines always keeep your $. You do not get to stop payments on the original cost of the ticket just because you cancelled before the ticket was paid in full. LAN will not issue a voucher until the ticket is paid in full.
This is about a cancelled airline reservation paid for on a credit card? Unless the ticket purchased is coded full fare and refundable, your shit out of luck. When you cancel a reservation, you pay a penaltyYes, and the penalty was USD350.
They then proceeded to take payments out which will eventually come to USD1100.
There's not going to be any voucher issued.
There are excellent lawyers in BA. The problem is finding them in the middle of the riff raff. Lawyer titles are the most forged in the World. Send an e-mail to either the US or the British embassy and they will send you a list of lawyers recommended by them. Of course, they are going to cost you.
Two years of letter writing, threats of legal action, mediation with LAN's US lawyers.....and after leaving Argentina and sending one letter from a British solicitor, a full refund and letter of apology duly received!
:-)
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