View Full Version : How long before this is happening here?
The shit has hit the fan so to speak: http://caracaschronicles.com/2014/02/20/the-game-changed/.
Since Cristina has been following Chavez's "model" , how long until this starts happening here? I guess once you can no longer buy toilet paper its all but over?
There venezuenlan community in Miami is very, very angry.
I love the way Cristina continues to support Maduro even though it is obvious its all over for him. Not terrorism but bad policies and management. Just like here in Argentina.
Daddy Rulz
02-22-14, 13:26
I was checking out a special about Venezuela. 43 fucking murders per day, number 4 in the world. What a socialist paradise. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate.
Will she decide to retire to Chile -- when?An interesting editorial observation from James Neilson in the Buenos Aries Herald speculates that her detractors do not want her abdicating her throne until the bitter end.
They [Cristina's opposition strategists] also fear the economy is cracking up. But they are in no hurry to speed Cristina’s departure. Though the lady herself likes to accuse the opposition of plotting her downfall, many alleged coup-mongers say they are determined to make her stay in office until the entire economy has collapsed so there can be no doubt as to who was responsible for the disaster. Of course, that is not the only reason. They all know perfectly well that Cristina’s successor will have to apply an extremely painful austerity programme. While interim president, Eduardo Duhalde managed to get away with one [painful austerity programme] because it was generally agreed that he was not to blame for the mess the country found itself in. Opposition hopefuls want to be given the same leeway even though, for that to happen, Argentina’s economy would have to go into meltdown with Cristina still in the Pink House and not, as Kirchnerites would presumably prefer, several weeks after she decided that enough is enough and her compatriots no longer deserved to be ruled by her.
An interesting editorial observation from James Neilson in the Buenos Aries Herald speculates that her detractors do not want her abdicating her throne until the bitter end.True, that way the blame sits on her and only her!
There are elections to deal with.
If she resigns now and the final fall from grace of the economy occurs under someone else's presidency, the K's may rise again.
The current situation is the result of structural problems that started in the late 1940's and each successive example of thievery has surpassed the prior.
Wild Walleye
02-24-14, 16:20
There are elections to deal with.
If she resigns now and the final fall from grace of the economy occurs under someone else's presidency, the K's may rise again.
The current situation is the result of structural problems that started in the late 1940's and each successive example of thievery has surpassed the prior.Bob, I hope you are well.
IMO, the structural problems began even earlier than that. I'd peg the beginning of the end (for Argentina as a member of the first world) around the turn of the century (19th into 20th). Then again, most all of the world's problems seem to intensify in the wake of the industrial revolution. The divergent ways in which countries embraced or rejected the industrial revolution set the trajectory for those that would remain or become "haves" and those who would remain or become "have nots."
Part of the US success story has been the forty-some-odd highly-scripted and legally-mandated transfers of power from out-going to incoming leadership. That was part of the design that has functioned as intended by the framers. Lame ducks are not allowed to beat a hasty retreat at their political convenience. You sit in that chair until the third week in January unless you go out feet first or kicking and screaming.
The peaceful and orderly transition of power has never been Argentina's strong suit.
Today Maduro accuses the opposition of trying to overthrow the "legitimate Venezuelan government " with help from the United States! I wonder what took him so long to try and the place blame on the US? Chavez made the same accusations almost every week! Remember when he accused the CIA of a plot to infect every South American president with cancer? LOL! Gee! I wish the CIA had its shit together enough to be able to do that!
Although there are similarities between Venezuela and Argentina there are also big and important differences. The most important being that neither the police nor the armed forces are pro Cristina. In Venezuela they are pro Chavez / Maduro. Cristina has chosen Milani as chief of the army; an ex-repressor but not very popular amongst the troops.
Another big difference is that Venezuela needs to import almost all its food, Argentina doesn't. Full stomachs tend to quell revolutionary tendencies.
As to her leaving earlier; there are some extreme right-wing activists that want her kicked out but mostly they are dinosaurs from a time when Latin American politics were allowed or limited by the military coups. Today that is unacceptable. The Cristinistas would like it because in a few years everyone will have forgotten most of her incompetence and she could use the fact she was kicked out ahead of time as the reason she didn't convert Argentina into a paradise on Earth.
Most of the opposition and the general population want her to finish her term in government so that when she finally leaves there will be no doubt about her absolute incompetence.
Although there are similarities between Venezuela and Argentina there are also big and important differences. The most important being that neither the police nor the armed forces are pro Cristina. In Venezuela they are pro Chavez / Maduro. Cristina has chosen Milani as chief of the army; an ex-repressor but not very popular amongst the troops.
Another big difference is that Venezuela needs to import almost all its food, Argentina doesn't. Full stomachs tend to quell revolutionary tendencies.
As to her leaving earlier; there are some extreme right-wing activists that want her kicked out but mostly they are dinosaurs from a time when Latin American politics were allowed or limited by the military coups. Today that is unacceptable. The Cristinistas would like it because in a few years everyone will have forgotten most of her incompetence and she could use the fact she was kicked out ahead of time as the reason she didn't convert Argentina into a paradise on Earth.
Most of the opposition and the general population want her to finish her term in government so that when she finally leaves there will be no doubt about her absolute incompetence.What you say is true, but 20 years ago, pre-Chavez, Venezuela did not import much food. With all his "social programs" he created a nation that lived off of his redistribution of wealth. I see the same thing happening here. While Argentina is very rich in agriculture, why are there children dieing every month here due to lack of clean water and of starvation?
It seems the Cato Institute (who ever they may be) has rated Argentina to be 4th in the world for pain and misery. Venezuela came in at # 1! http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/images/global-miseryindexbg.jpg.
What happened to the edit function?
It seems the Cato Institute (who ever they may be) has rated Argentina to be 4th in the world for pain and misery. Venezuela came in at # 1! http://object.cato.org/sites/cato.org/files/images/global-miseryindexbg.jpg.
What happened to the edit function?Shit! It's not that bad.
If you created the thread you can't edit.
If you created the thread you can't edit.LOL! The creator makes no mistakes? .
LOL! The creator makes no mistakes? .Exactly Gandolf. In the little world that revolves around this thread, you are god, and what you do cannot be changed, so don't fuck up.
What exactly does this rate? It doesn't seem right to me. Australia below Mexico? Panama well above the US? The UK below Ecuador or El Salvador? Or I'm not reading it right or these fuckers that drew this report are the ones who stole my bottle of Laphroaig!
What exactly does this rate? It doesn't seem right to me. Australia below Mexico? Panama well above the US? The UK below Ecuador or El Salvador? Or I'm not reading it right or these fuckers that drew this report are the ones who stole my bottle of Laphroaig!Supposedly it rates the "misery" of the population. Or maybe discontent? I have no idea how they came to their conclusions. I don't place too much confidence in the findings, but I did find it mildly interesting.
Supposedly it rates the "misery" of the population. Or maybe discontent? I have no idea how they came to their conclusions. I don't place too much confidence in the findings, but I did find it mildly interesting.Yes, probably it's how the population in general feel about their standard of living. It could be that an Australian feels more miserable or unsatisfied with his lifestyle than a Mexican feels about his. That makes sense as almost all Argentines feel miserable and unsatisfied with their lifestyle because they feel they deserve better. If I'm correctly analyzing these ratings it would be quite easy to carry out the investigations.
Wild Walleye
05-08-14, 12:38
I am certain that Argentina's long historical mix of splendor and misery has bred a population that knows that life in Argentina should be better than it is. After Argentina gained, and maintained, its independence (through the middle of the 19th century), the country continued to develop (around the strength of Bs As, trade ports, leather, etc), as a cultural and commercial power. I'd venture that in the early 1900's (with its strong interests in European culture) Bs As was becoming a player amongst the top metropolitan areas on the globe. The first third to half of the 20th century was characterized by large inflows of European immigrants. Why did the leave Europe for Argentina? I'm willing to bet that many of them left for a better life. The second half of the 20th century, saw Argentina run through some pretty nasty cycles of dictators and pseudo-dictators pretending to be elected officials all of which practiced economic witchcraft. So, successive generations whose parents and grandparents came looking for a better life are still waiting for it to arrive. That hope of a better tomorrow, in Argentina, has been largely replaced by hoping that the next (guaranteed, in their minds) economic collapse won't be as bad as the last.
The problems are vast, however, IMO, they are rooted in a long history of one-philosophy rule. That isn't to say that there aren't various political brands or that the various factions agree on much, other than perpetuating the misery by doing the same thing over and over again while expecting a different outcome.
IMO, all politics in Argentina are different flavors of Leftism. The reality is that there are very few politicians, over the last 75 years that would qualify as conservatives. However, all Argentine politicians seem comfortable in blaming the (nonexistent) 'right' for every problem the country has ever had. The 'troubles' that really took root when countering the "Castro Effect" in the 70's and continuing through the Dirty War were said to be opposed by the "right wing" and all that name applies. The truth of the matter is that while they may have been philosophically a little to the 'right' of Castro, it would be quite a stretch to define their politics as anything right of center. However, the uniform mischaracterization of some of the country's darkest moments as the fault of political enemies has helped to stamp out virtually any political voice that could be considered right of center. Therefore, the country is stuck with the reigns of power being passed back and forth between groups who's economic philosophies are all rooted in the same, proven-to-be-unsustainable leftist realm.
While I agree with what WW said below (post #19) I believe there is a large portion of the population who really believe that things are good in Argentina. Up until her recent illness our fearless mentirosa leader was on the TV at least three times a week spouting propaganda how Argentina is the first in the world in this and that and that and under the Penguin party's rule Argentina is going to recoup the Malvina's and with the riches they can steal from the islands they can then become a world economic leader. You could not avoid seeing or hearing her as she would blatantly seize all channels for her broadcasts.
In the capital (Buenos Aires) and Cordoba (city) most people are a little better educated and many of whom travel often enough to know what's going on in the world. Many of these people speak more then two languages and can access foreign news papers to see what's really happening in the world. Many of them have traveled and seen how things really are in "first world" counties. But in the interior, the "vast populace of unwashed masses" actually believe what she is saying and are very grateful for the few coins she throws to them. I hear from my neighbors (I live in the "boondocks" as my kids say when they come to visit) how this administration has "done so much for the pueblo" and how things are so much better now. The truth is that the Penguinos came to power in 2003 while Argentina was really down and out and when things could not have gotten much worse. In the perspective of 2001/02 and 03 Argentina has come a long way. But the truth is there where not many choices, they could have stayed as they were or gotten better.
The truth is that Argentina is a country very rich in natural resources. Argentina could be a first world country if only they would stop meddling with things they don't understand and just concentrate on improving the economic environment. A perfect example is Aerolneas Argentinas, the company loses more then 2.5 million dollars per day, service is lousy. Flights are regularly canceled. Most web travel sites will not even sell their tickets. But the government (which is basically bankrupt) continues to pump money into it that they don't have. Any management with half a brain would sell it off or even give it away just to stop the hemorrhaging. But we all know that will never happen. Hopefully who ever wins the elections next year will do better. I doubt it, but one can always hope!
What "democratic" (process, not party) politics in South America (or Latin America, to be more broad) is not bent toward left-wing politics?
"Include" everyone. "Collaborate". "Be patriotic and accept less for your work and exports." It's all the fault of those meanies in the "First World." Those awful people who would enslave and "keep down" the masses around the world for their own benefit! Idiots.
The people here in Capital Federal are really kind of freaked out. I don't think there are many, rich or poor, who are happy with what's going on. Even the people who belong to unions who managed to get some raises are not happy and those who have no union or government affiliation and are workers are really freaked out. They're watching the inflation go up faster than their salaries and don't know how they're going to be buying food here pretty soon.
Of course, I'm talking about a large percentage of the population, the poorer folk, who are the most freaked out, but unless you know these people directly you sure as hell aren't going to hear about it through any other channels here in Argentina!
Gandolf, you're right: if they could let go of their idiocies they could be a first world nation here. I have no doubt. But then, so could Brasil and we only see possibilities that they're going to advance. Hell, they can't even put on Olympic games successfully, it seems.
The other day, I went to Disco to do some grocery shopping. The family loves Tang powder to make juice. I noticed they had a sign advertising $36 pesos a box, while the individual packets were $2.46 pesos a packet (18 packets in the box). I was blown away. It was the first time I'd noticed a price for the boxes, much less an actual discount for buying in bulk! I brought three boxes with me to the checkout. Of course, when the cashier tried to ring the boxes up, the scan found no price. I insisted there was a sign back there with the price per box. He calls over the manager, who tries to scan it (duh) and then tries to enter the SKU by keyboard (duh) and gets no result (obviously). I tell the manager the same thing about the sign. She just glances at me and walks away without a word. The guy looks at me and says "I'll just ring them up at the individual prices times 18 per box." I told him to fuck off and left my groceries sitting there and walked out.
That's why Argentina will not advance. They have no desire to make themselves better. They have no desire to think things through logically and understand, for example, that you can sell more items quicker if you drop prices, that you will then need more of the items to sell because they go quicker, which will employ more people to fabricate more items. They are happy with no competition, with fixed prices, with "fairness" down to ensuring that its the employers' job to make sure the employ is taken care of. They don't really believe in progress. This is what happens when a population grows and mom and pop stores remain to fill the order because big corporations (who, BTW can do things more efficiently) are obviously evil and will put mom and pop (who can't keep up) out of business. I'm betting they still sell buggy whips here somewhere...
And at the same time, the rich (or relatively so) here can take advantage of the few big corporations here and ones overseas and get the things they want while the poor and the workers are held down by the very things that the government tells them will help them. What a bunch of crap all the way around.
Argentina won't wake up completely in the next few decades, primarily because it resides within South America and is poisoned by socialistic reasoning. I figure about the time the US is turning into what Argentina is now, Argentina may be rising as one of the premier growing economies, having shaken off 100 years of Peronism and other stupid dreams and realized that free market is the way to go.
Traditionally this was the inflation rate plus the unemployment rate but I see this study has also added the lending (interest) rate (not sure if this is govt bonds or what), minus the economic growth rate (growth = negative misery). For example, Panamá, where I spent a couple of months last year, has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world and also strong economic growth, so that is why it is less 'miserable' than the US. Japan also has very low unemployment and very low interest rates.
With this governments quest to micro manage everythig and to punish those who want to spend their money as they wish Cristinas Legions have poached another page out of Uncle Hugos playbook on how to rob the middle class and upper class who want to travel for what ever reason.
From todays Buenos Aires Herald.
The government announced that airlines for both commercial and non commercial flights will be required to deliver further information of its passengers to the National Migrations Office, the AFIP tax bureau, Airport Police and Civil Aviation National Administration (ANAC).
AFIP and Airport Police joint resolution 3667 establishes that in 180 days from now, airlines will have to deliver more information, organized in 31 categories, of each registered passenger.
The document argues that the new legal framework will enable the government to have "unique, updated real-time information to optimize control and supervision processes, simplify customs, migration and airport security procedures. ".
The government said that the information will be used in the fight against "drug trafficking, international terrorism, human trafficking and illegal migration. ".
The resolution warns that if airlines fail to deliver the information in time and manner, they will be liable to "judicial or summary actions. ".
INFORMATION AIRLINES MUST DELIVER 72 HOURS BEFORE THE TRIP.
Airline I'd code.
Flight number.
Flight departure / arrival time and date.
Flight Origin and destination.
Total number of passengers.
I'd of everyone on board of the flight.
Nationality.
Name and Surname according to I'd.
Date of birth according to I'd.
Passengers file number within the national Passenger Names Registry (PNR).
Reservation date.
Trip itinerary.
Method of payment.
Billing address.
Billing order.
Telephone number.
Information on frequent-flyer programmes.
Travel agency.
Travel agent.
Information on divided PNR.
Information on ticket issuing.
Date of ticket issuing.
Passenger's no show record.
Passenger's go show record.
Waiting list information.
Luggage information.
Seat number.
Seat information
Article from the Washington Post:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2014/09/04406585.jpg
Travelers to Argentina will no longer have to worry about their personal information being stolen. Thieves will simply go to the nearest government office and purchase the information for a bribe (I mean fee).
With this governments quest to micro manage everythig and to punish those who want to spend their money as they wish Cristinas Legions have poached another page out of Uncle Hugos playbook on how to rob the middle class and upper class who want to travel for what ever reason.
From todays Buenos Aires Herald.
The government announced that airlines for both commercial and non commercial flights will be required to deliver further information of its passengers to the National Migrations Office, the AFIP tax bureau, Airport Police and Civil Aviation National Administration (ANAC).
AFIP and Airport Police joint resolution 3667 establishes that in 180 days from now, airlines will have to deliver more information, organized in 31 categories, of each registered passenger.
The document argues that the new legal framework will enable the government to have "unique, updated real-time information to optimize control and supervision processes, simplify customs, migration and airport security procedures. ".
The government said that the information will be used in the fight against "drug trafficking, international terrorism, human trafficking and illegal migration. ".
The resolution warns that if airlines fail to deliver the information in time and manner, they will be liable to "judicial or summary actions. ".
INFORMATION AIRLINES MUST DELIVER 72 HOURS BEFORE THE TRIP.
Airline I'd code.
Flight number.
Flight departure / arrival time and date.
Flight Origin and destination.
Total number of passengers.
I'd of everyone on board of the flight.
Nationality.
Name and Surname according to I'd.
Date of birth according to I'd.
Passengers file number within the national Passenger Names Registry (PNR).
Reservation date.
Trip itinerary.
Method of payment.
Billing address.
Billing order.
Telephone number.
Information on frequent-flyer programmes.
Travel agency.
Travel agent.
Information on divided PNR.
Information on ticket issuing.
Date of ticket issuing.
Passenger's no show record.
Passenger's go show record.
Waiting list information.
Luggage information.
Seat number.
Seat information
Stop complaining like you really care and just think of all the cheap "tail" you are enjoying with the dollar blue. If it wasnt for CFK you would all be paying EU prices. Just enjoy the ride to the bottom while you can. Or move back to kansas dorothy.
Shades of Hugo Chavez! Does this sound familiar?? Next she will be claiming that the CIA gave her cancer! (Another direct quote!)
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/171087/%E2%80%98if-something-happens-to-me-look-north%E2%80%99-cristina-warns
Shades of Hugo Chavez! Does this sound familiar?? Next she will be claiming that the CIA gave her cancer! (Another direct quote!)
http://www.buenosairesherald.com/article/171087/%E2%80%98if-something-happens-to-me-look-north%E2%80%99-cristina-warnsAnother news article on the same subject, I. E. , the US government is plotting to assassinate her or overthrow her government.
As the saying goes, "When you elect a Clown, expect a Circus" and that's what the voters of Argentina and Venezuela got and they kept re-electing the clowns so they have to live with the consequences.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/oct/01/argentina-president-claims-us-plot
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.1.4 Copyright © 2024 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.