Legal attacks on hooker bars

[Admin2]

Thread Starter.

[SimpleWrangler]

http://www.clarin.com/ciudades/Cerraran-whiskerias-podra-coperas-boliches_0_1654634583.html

You can translate this, but you'll probably not understand some details:

The city grants a "Class A license".

Class A means the owner can hire people (either male or female) to entertain the clients while they drink, as mentioned in spanish as "alternadora" (by the way a strange word in spanish).

The city government will decide by the next week if they still grant these licenses, if the decisions are in favor, they will KEEP grant these licenses for 90 days.

Hook may still keep the name, but they will be forced to open as a normal cafeteria, or something else.

[Daddy Rulz]

http://www.clarin.com/ciudades/Cerraran-whiskerias-podra-coperas-boliches_0_1654634583.html

You can translate this, but you'll probably not understand some details:

The city grants a "Class A license".

Class A means the owner can hire people (either male or female) to entertain the clients while they drink, as mentioned in spanish as "alternadora" (by the way a strange word in spanish).

The city government will decide by the next week if they still grant these licenses, if the decisions are in favor, they will KEEP grant these licenses for 90 days.

Hook may still keep the name, but they will be forced to open as a normal cafeteria, or something else.She said that what the people (PFA, Metropoliatan, Human Rights abuses, and another group I don't know) who spent several hours at the bar last Friday night said was that all places like this, Hook, Keep, Ness, Newport, ect. Will be closed in 90 days. This guy Gustavo Vera and that chick have an agenda that will not be swayed by facts. All sex work is trafficking. It doesn't matter how many chicks tell them otherwise. I don't think they will rest until this is done.

[SimpleWrangler]

Gustavo Vera and his business: His foundation (La Alameda) get financed with American money to clear the argentine attractions and to replace superb boliches with banks like they did with Madaho's.

Tracking the money it's easy: An organization in the US reports with facts (like new laws, arrests in huge numbers, etc) and they collect from the taxes money, they pay to these local organizations with those funds and everyone has a well paid job.

If they say they combat prostitution in Argentina, even the women would laugh, as it's part of the culture, but, they say they combat people trafficking, so they get local support, as (almost) everyone will agree.

But, they forget they are in the final part of South America, a region where Jesse James arrived as a refugee, among others as Menegele (yes, the Nazi doctor who killed jews in the gas chamber), many Maffia members, and (no proof about this) Eric Honecker who died in Chile, and even Hitler.

Because Brasil, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay are something like the G7 of the corruption league of the world.

But they also forget about the other thing, it's not easy to get laid in Argentina if you don't pay. It's possible, but it's also possible to win the lottery. Cultural roots make women consider something they do in exchange for something. Terminating prostitution in Argentina can be as hard as to make the Chinese people to quit smoking, or make the Mexicans to stop eating tacos.


She said that what the people (PFA, Metropoliatan, Human Rights abuses, and another group I don't know) who spent several hours at the bar last Friday night said was that all places like this, Hook, Keep, Ness, Newport, ect. Will be closed in 90 days. This guy Gustavo Vera and that chick have an agenda that will not be swayed by facts. All sex work is trafficking. It doesn't matter how many chicks tell them otherwise. I don't think they will rest until this is done.

[Wild Walleye]

Gustavo Vera and his business: His foundation (La Alameda) get financed with American money to clear the argentine attractions and to replace superb boliches with banks like they did with Madaho's.

Tracking the money it's easy: An organization in the US reports with facts (like new laws, arrests in huge numbers, etc) and they collect from the taxes money, they pay to these local organizations with those funds and everyone has a well paid job.

If they say they combat prostitution in Argentina, even the women would laugh, as it's part of the culture, but, they say they combat people trafficking, so they get local support, as (almost) everyone will agree.

But, they forget they are in the final part of South America, a region where Jesse James arrived as a refugee, among others as Menegele (yes, the Nazi doctor who killed jews in the gas chamber), many Maffia members, and (no proof about this) Eric Honecker who died in Chile, and even Hitler.

Because Brasil, Chile, Argentina, Paraguay are something like the G7 of the corruption league of the world.

But they also forget about the other thing, it's not easy to get laid in Argentina if you don't pay. It's possible, but it's also possible to win the lottery. Cultural roots make women consider something they do in exchange for something. Terminating prostitution in Argentina can be as hard as to make the Chinese people to quit smoking, or make the Mexicans to stop eating tacos.One of the things that attracted me to Argentina (circa 2007) was that there wasn't much US influence there and most US business people would go elsewhere because doing business in Argentina was too hard. I hope that doesn't change too much...

[Local]

The discussion on this initiative to close all chicas bars should move to another thread, I guess.

To which one?

This one I reckon.

Admin

[SimpleWrangler]

One of the things that attracted me to Argentina (circa 2007) was that there wasn't much US influence there and most US business people would go elsewhere because doing business in Argentina was too hard. I hope that doesn't change too much...JP Morgan, Chevron, McDonald's, American Airlines, General Electric, IBM (infamous for corruption issues in Argentina), Oracle, Lucent, Procter and Gamble (top advert in local TV), Nike, Kellog's, Dow Chemical (infamous for intoxicating an entire village with Cyanide anion), and even more, are doing business in Argentina.

http://www.tmf-group.com/en/media-centre/resources/top-challenges/the-americas/argentina

Noah Mamet, the US ambassador, a jewish one, Mamet has been criticized for being part of a group of nominated “ambassadors that raised six-figure sums” for President Obama’s 2012 reelection campaign.

He lived in Marina del Rey, CA, before becoming an ambassador.

It's not hard doing business in Argentina, it's hard to live in Argentina and try to do business with anyone.

[SimpleWrangler]

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1942538-prohibieron-a-las-alternadoras-de-los-bares-portenos

The boliches have now 90 days of agony before they die for ever. It has been a romantic era I will remember for ever.

Visit them before they close!

[Daddy Rulz]

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/1942538-prohibieron-a-las-alternadoras-de-los-bares-portenos

The boliches have now 90 days of agony before they die for ever. It has been a romantic era I will remember for ever.

Visit them before they close!The courts haven't gotten to it yet. Some of those club owners have some money.

Bars are not illegal.

Prostitution is not illegal.

They have never, ever proven a case of a woman working in one of those bars against her will.

The courts will probably shut this down but maybe not.

[SimpleWrangler]

The courts haven't gotten to it yet. Some of those club owners have some money.

Bars are not illegal.

Prostitution is not illegal.

They have never, ever proven a case of a woman working in one of those bars against her will.

The courts will probably shut this down but maybe not.Dear DR.

The Newspaper article said the restriction was approved by 41 votes and 19 abstentions, and the thing is bars can operate, but the "alternators" meaning women under contract (dancers and the girls in the bars, whom are not strictly clients) will be banned within 90 days.

The type of bar that allowed the owners to have entertainers was banned.

So they are now required to switch to a normal bar, they can have male-clients, and women-clients and it's going to be ok, I think the government inspectors will raid the places and ask women for their receipts of consumption, or something like that. If I had a bar like these, I would make fake tickets and provide them, since as you stated prostitution is legal, and women are free to enter the bar. It's a matter of time to see, but in the mean time I will visit (or, revisit) all the bars in town :).

But I will avoid those ripoff bars on suipacha street, those are the ones they should close. !!

[Daddy Rulz]

Dear DR.

The Newspaper article said the restriction was approved by 41 votes and 19 abstentions, and the thing is bars can operate, but the "alternators" meaning women under contract (dancers and the girls in the bars, whom are not strictly clients) will be banned within 90 days.

The type of bar that allowed the owners to have entertainers was banned.

So they are now required to switch to a normal bar, they can have male-clients, and women-clients and it's going to be ok, I think the government inspectors will raid the places and ask women for their receipts of consumption, or something like that. If I had a bar like these, I would make fake tickets and provide them, since as you stated prostitution is legal, and women are free to enter the bar. It's a matter of time to see, but in the mean time I will visit (or, revisit) all the bars in town :).

But I will avoid those ripoff bars on suipacha street, those are the ones they should close. !!I didn't get that part form the article (bad Spanish) tough it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they do the same thing they did at exedra. Exedra is free to allow all the hookers they want to sit at any table inside or outside if they don't mind being closed on a weekly basis for bullshit reasons.

These chicks need to start telling their story. The only reason that block is able to do what they are doing is because theirs is the only story (all sex work is trata) being told. They need to get those chicks telling their side. It will never happen, because now their family knows but doesn't KNOW they are hookers. If they went public saying "I'm a hooker and I'm not being trafficked" then their families would KNOW they are hookers.

It's sad how those fuckers use the double standard to silence the only real opposition they could get.

[Spassmusssein]

-I dont get the link fixed but in google:

"gustavo vera el miedo del periodismo hora22".

Shows very fine the different attitudes against "prostibulos" of some folks, usurpating 5 years the "Pizzeria Alameda" (Flores) and finaly overtaking the bar.

His "ONG" by ocasion has the same name...

[SimpleWrangler]

This one perhaps?

http://hora22.com/como-opera-el-lider-de-la-alameda-gustavo-vera-y-julio-piumato-a-indagatoria-por-malversacion-en-escandalosa-causa/


-I dont get the link fixed but in google:

"gustavo vera el miedo del periodismo hora22".

Shows very fine the different attitudes against "prostibulos" of some folks, usurpating 5 years the "Pizzeria Alameda" (Flores) and finaly overtaking the bar.

His "ONG" by ocasion has the same name...

[Sly One]

Bar Closures.

It may send many of the girls underground forcing them to us places like Criags List, Escort Sites and even here etc...

Hopefully the girls that go underground will have to reduce their price to compete as I bet there will be a oversupply of girls vs clients??

But again this is Argentina??

Any thoughts ??

[Tres3]

But again this is Argentina??
If it were anywhere but Argentina, I might have a rebuttal.

Tres3.

[Local]

It's clearly not the case of Gustavo Vera and the rest of the politicians and activist with direct contact with the Vatican.

Hook and Ness are closed by legal order. A very bad news that does not look at reversing anytime soon.

[Local]

As a hobbyst, I am obviously affected by the closure of chicas' bars. I would not expect society to accomodate public policies to my every wish, so I would not really complain much if I saw that getting rid of these bars creates some good for at least some other constituency.

But it is clear that damage is done here beyond the inconveniences to customers.

These bars reduce barrier to entries for working chicas willing to reach a pool of customers with spending capacity and provide a marketplace that is safe and easy to supervise. The girls feel protected in the bars (at least the major ones we usually report about in this board).

Over the past few months, talking with chicas about their personal stories, I gathered one instance after another of working people for which the bars were a revenue generating platform and which will be very negatively affected by their closures.

One such story, just as way of example, is Flor's. She is the chica I took out from NP last night (report in NP thread).

As reported, she was not very interested in providing an excelent service, just the bare minimum of energy. Rather than angry, her behaviour made me curious. I asked her about her background. She told me she was new to the bars scenes, but had a long experience in providing sexual services. Not in a privado, and not at her place advertising through internet. She was for several years in a suggar-dady relation with a guy from which she got "enougth money to feed my baby and myself, I did not asked much". This suggar-dady arrangement finished recently, apparently because the guy decided to move over with his life. So now she was hitting the bars to get revenue. She thought that working 3 or 4 nights a week will be enough, plus any customer she could meet in the bars and turn into a regular.

In any case, and without discussing how much of what Flor told me is true, the story shows the value added by the bars to this segment of the labor market.

Bars of course are not free, they extract value from traders (buyers and sellers) using the marketplace, by the chica-drink system. And that is fair as well. No marketplace providing actual services to traders should be free or not be otherwise compensated. Considering the total cost of services (taxis+chicas+chicas' drinks+hotels) the cost of the bars seems reasonable.

These are very dark times in the city of Buenos Aires.

[Daddy Rulz]

As a hobbyst, I am obviously affected by the closure of chicas' bars. I would not expect society to accomodate public policies to my every wish, so I would not really complain much if I saw that getting rid of these bars creates some good for at least some other constituency.

But it is clear that damage is done here beyond the inconveniences to customers.

These bars reduce barrier to entries for working chicas willing to reach a pool of customers with spending capacity and provide a marketplace that is safe and easy to supervise. The girls feel protected in the bars (at least the major ones we usually report about in this board).

Over the past few months, talking with chicas about their personal stories, I gathered one instance after another of working people for which the bars were a revenue generating platform and which will be very negatively affected by their closures.

One such story, just as way of example, is Flor's. She is the chica I took out from NP last night (report in NP thread).

As reported, she was not very interested in providing an excelent service, just the bare minimum of energy. Rather than angry, her behaviour made me curious. I asked her about her background. She told me she was new to the bars scenes, but had a long experience in providing sexual services. Not in a privado, and not at her place advertising through internet. She was for several years in a suggar-dady relation with a guy from which she got "enougth money to feed my baby and myself, I did not asked much". This suggar-dady arrangement finished recently, apparently because the guy decided to move over with his life. So now she was hitting the bars to get revenue. She thought that working 3 or 4 nights a week will be enough, plus any customer she could meet in the bars and turn into a regular.

In any case, and without discussing how much of what Flor told me is true, the story shows the value added by the bars to this segment of the labor market.

Bars of course are not free, they extract value from traders (buyers and sellers) using the marketplace, by the chica-drink system. And that is fair as well. No marketplace providing actual services to traders should be free or not be otherwise compensated. Considering the total cost of services (taxis+chicas+chicas' drinks+hotels) the cost of the bars seems reasonable.

These are very dark times in the city of Buenos Aires.By closing the coffee shops they also push the trade into the streets which are less safe for the girls. Before they could sit in a well lit place with their friends and sort of have an interview with the guy and their friends would get a look at the guy before they left. Now, on a dark street they have the barest time to look into a car before getting in and putting themselves under the control of the guy.

Sadly the only people who can speak up for your friend Flor is Flor herself. We as mongers can't because we would be perceived as having an agenda. Nobody else can stand up and say that she is not being trafficked or abused except her and they don't because of the stigma associated with sex work. When the police closed down exedra had the girls stood on the corner protesting "I can't buy a cup of coffee here or the police will shut them down because I'm a prostitute" then something would have happened. I continue to think the greater number of Argentino's support people's rights to live their life as they see fit and are accepting of sex work (so long as it's not their sister) but the only story they hear is Gus Vera and they accept it as truth because they themselves don't want to be sex workers and in their minds nobody would unless forced.

Only the workers themselves can tell their story and they wont do it.

[WorldTravel69]

I assuming that they kicked out the chicas there also?

Av. De Mayo 1196, Tel: +54 11 4381-6300.

Open now: Open 24 hours.

[Daddy Rulz]

I assuming that they kicked out the chicas there also?

Av. De Mayo 1196, Tel: +54 11 4381-6300.

Open now: Open 24 hours.No, not as of last night.

[Esten]

Good info Local. Thanks for all your updates.

A couple more clubs closed I see. Looks like I was in town just in time to enjoy one of the long-time great clubs, before it closed. Actually, in fact I partly based my trip on the closing rumors.

I have mixed feelings about it. First off, you never know what will happen, so never say never. If they don't re-open I'll miss them. But I love Buenos Aires and will still visit. In my experience, the privado and massage chicas (of which there are hundreds) usually are open to dates and will share their number. For a local it should be pretty easy to assemble a rolodex of 10-20 numbers so you can conveniently set up dates.

This will be my game plan next trip, if there are no good clubs open. I'll do a binge run the first two days to get fresh contact info, to supplement the contacts I already have from the last couple of trips. I'll replace the boliches with dates. Yeah it won't be like the golden age, with classy clubs filled with fresh young well-dressed chicas wanting you to take them out. But things change and you roll with the flow, and maybe, expand your horizons. And if I really want the chica-packed clubs, there are other destinations for that. It's all good.