Buenos Aires - 2003 Reports

[Dick for Brains]

Update on Amerika:

After seeing several reports from a few months ago, I decided to check this club out on a Saturday evening (really Sunday morning around 1:30am.)

I really didn't see any interesting stuff going on. The club was fairly expensive by BA standards and from all accounts it ooked like alot of clubs I've been to. There was one room upstairs which was totally black (couldn't see my hand if I held it up a foot in front of my face.) It appeared that there were some rooms, which I didn't care to venture in given thae nature of the club most days of the week. In short, it looked like it was the room-equivalent of a glory hole.

Curious to hear if there are any recent reports of this club from one of its mostly hetero nights.

DfB

[Dick for Brains]

1707 Santa Fe (2/2)

Bracketing my entire two week trip to BA was 1707. As I had visited this apartment on my first day in town, so I visited it on my last. As time was short, rather than walking this time from my hotel in Palermo, I hopped on the D line, got off at Estacion Callao, walked north on Callao and made a right on Santa Fe to 1707.

Had read some good reports about Pamela from Missiones and when she showed up in the introductions in my room, I quickly grabbed her. We agreed on a full hour for $100AR.

After showering, Pamela entered, we lied on the bed and talked for a few minutes, started caressing and kissing. She’s definitely a good kisser. After a couple of minutes left the room to pee. Came back, made out some more. Did seem to be a tad more hurried than I prefer, heading for the Johnson after only a few minutes of making out. She started putting on a preservativo, when I objected she asked for a good propina (consistent with early reports.) I don’t really care for this policy – I’m paying for her time. If she has no health qualms regarding the giving of BBBJ (as evidenced by her willingness to do it for a tip), I really don’t see why this requires extra money. In any case she did give excellent head deep throating me till near-climax. I rolled over to get into 69 position and after a few minutes there I blew my load deep, DEEP in her throat. She practically gagged and headed out the door to gargle (or whatever else she needed to do.)

Came back after a few minutes. After a little more making out she left the room again, claimed she had to pee. I got a bit frustrated at this. This was her third trip out of the room, only one of which really seemed necessary after blowing my load down her throat. Got dressed despite the fact there was about 25 minutes remaining on my clock. Didn’t think I had it in me for another round. She asked for her tip – I gave her only 10AR. Despite the quality of the deep-throating, tipping didn’t really seem necessary, and was not keen on her three trips out of the room.

Pamela started going a bit whacko at this point. She expected a much larger tip. She blocked the door. I called out to the hostess and started feigning serious anger (recalling a comment Jackson made at the AMA meeting roughly two weeks earlier – “when a girl gets rough, get a little crazier than her.” It worked to perfection, she led me out the door and all was well.

All in all – while the sex was very good with Pamela, the other stuff detracted a bit from the experience. I wouldn’t recommend her unless you’re willing to pay on the order of 30-40AR extra for BBBJ. Take her or leave her.

All in all, SF 1707 is a good apartment with a great choice of girls. My main problem with this environment, however, is a generic one I suppose. Tn this environment, the introductions are extremely brief – the girls walk in, peck you on the cheek, state their name and walk out, after which you are required to make your choice. I generally prefer an environment where you have a much longer chance to converse with the ladies, to get a sense of their character, to nail down the “contract” more thoroughly. If anyone knows of a venue where this is possible in the afternoon hours, I would love to hear from you.

DfB

[Dick for Brains]

1707 Avenida Santa Fe (1/2)

My first day in BA, after an all-night flight, arrived at my hotel around 10am, tried to check-in, room wasn’t quite ready, had breakfast after which room became ready, unpacked, showered and off I was into the streets of BA. My hotel was in Palermo, on Calle Oro, the equivalent of around 4400 (in the numbering scheme) a block or two off of Santa Fe.

I figured that the best way to explore the city was on foot. It was Monday, 12/8, a holiday in BA so the streets were fairly quiet. I headed down Santa Fe, planning on walking all the way to the Microcentre or around the equivalent of 600 on Santa Fe.

After about an hour, stopped for coffee at Ave. Callao (yes in BA Avenidas do intersect) and pulled out my WSG cut-and-paste cheat sheet. Lo and behold I was only a block away from what some consider the best apartment in BA.

Longèshort, the WSG descriptions were perfect. Went up to the apartment, rang the buzzer for the 3rd floor, got into a rickety elevator, was led into a room where two girls were introduced (it was very slow at 1707 that day due to the holiday. On a subsequent visit, 7 girls were introduced). Barbara was one of them, a very good-looking tall, slender black-haired women, a clear favorite over the other mujer (don’t recall her name.)

I settled on a 45 minute session for 80AR. Took a shower (after the long walk on a hot day, really needed it.) Barbara was a great un-hurried kisser and caresser, provided nice slow CBJ (being in BA for only a few hours, who was I to complain about a little preservativo) and multiple positions. We talked a bit, cuddled some more and off I went, continuing my journey to the microcentre. Barbara is a definite looker, one who I would definitely recommend.

Only suggestion is to negotiate bareback with Barbara next time as it applies to BJ.

DfB

[Hobby Fan]

Moondog:

Good input, and not the normal strategy. What is your view of normal rate for, say, Madaho's girl, for a session lasting, say, just under 2 hours?

With no discussion of pricing, you don't often get asked for 100 US? If one can make your way work it would be best, I agree, but I don't like to chance an argument. Is your Spanish fluent? Do you pass for a local or S. American, or do you just project the attitude of plainly knowing the ropes?

HF

[Dick for Brains]

Moondog,

If you come home with a girl without discussing price, what do you do if she asks for a ridiculous amount when the date is over? What protection is there that you have a meeting of the minds?

The first time I mongered in Rio a few years ago, I was with a girl I met in that cafe near Help. After a full day with her, taking her out for a shrimp dinner, going out to a samba club, and generally spending a decent amount of money on her, she asked for way more than I expected. She turned out to be reasonable and we settled on what I considered to be a fair price, but what if she becomes unreasonable and gets some of her friends involved?

Remember you're on their turf, not on your own.

Just wondering if you've ever had any problems when not making it clear what the agreement was?

DfB

[MoonDog]

With regard to pricing, unless she brings it up first, I never even discuss it.

If she wants us to leave together, she will make it known. We both know what the going rate is, and depending on the session that takes place, that is what she will get, more if she is good and I want to see her again. Outside of one or two gold diggers, price has never been a problem or issue, and has never been a qualifier as to if I want to be with her. Attitude rules in this hobby, and that is used as the barometer.

Moondog

[Hobby Fan]

DFB is correct as to having some flexibility with pricing.

There is no right answer here, which is why the topic is addressed again and again on this Board. You need to develop your own strategy, which depends in part on your personality and in part your ability to speak Spanish. And the correct strategy may vary with the chica involved.

One clear rule: At all times push hard for pay-at-the-end. Sometimes it is a deal breaker, and you have to decide between paying up front (with large risk of bad session) or losing the chica. At that point opinions vary. Chicas will claim they have been cheated, and at that point you can ask them if they have ever been stiffed or cheated by a guy from (your country here). Odds are that they have been stiffed by Argentine men but not foreigners. But sometimes they insist on payment up front, and despite Jackson's admonitions, sometimes I have caved in and then had a great session.

On negotiating hard: Getting the best possible price from a really good looking woman at Madaho's may not lead to bad service, but is likely to make repeat visits less attractive to the woman.

On prices to offer: One good strategy: agree to pay your best price, or just a little over best possible price, but then just pay more at the end if the session is a great one, particularly if you want to repeat. I let them know that is possible and even probable, but in my discretion. DFB apparently paid 150 for two hours with a total babe, and she did not want to see him again enough to dump another guy with whom she was talking. No surprise here.

Another approach: agree to pay, say 150 in the bar. Then change the price to 175 minimum, more at your descretion, when you get to the room. Chica conclusion: you know market price, but are not cheap.

Another good option: copy the price/time schedule from Jackson's argentinaprivate website, maybe augmented by 50P for Madaho's or total babe factor elsewhere, announce the start time when you get to the room, and stick to it. A bit mechanical, yes, but clarity has its advantages.

Or simpler, just say 150 for the first hour (200 if a Madaho babe), 50 per half hour thereafter. Round up on time at the end if the session is good. This strategy gives the lady an incentive to keep you pleased for hours. OK, you lose the chance of 2 or 3 hours for 150, but I always end up tipping heavy in that situation anyway.

And, or course, clarify before finalizing agreement any 'special activities' you want included.

Hope this helps,

HF

[MoonDog]

DFB,

Thanks for the nice reports. These girls will drive you nuts sometimes, and when you get to that point, it is time to move on, as there are at least 20+ other girls within a 5-10 minute walk.

Thanks for sharing and enjoy the life.

Moondog

[Dick for Brains]

Madaho’s (cont’d. 3/3)

My last visit to Madaho’s was on Thursday (12/18) and further solidified the notion of how critical it is to be aware of the changing market. Thursday is very different from Tuesday and what is achievable at 2am is not necessarily available at 3am.

I had just returned from a 3 day trip to Iguazu, arriving back in BA at around 6:30pm. Quite a bit of traffic back to my Hotel (Cristoforo Colombo) in Palermo, check-in, shower, and I’m out the door at 8:30. Had a reservation for a Tango Concert (Quinteto La Camorra Tango) at Club del Vino at 10:30 and wanted to catch dinner at a nearby Parrilla house in Palermo Viejo before the concert.

Food and concert were outstanding but was eager to head back to Madaho’s to see Elina again after a great Monday night/Tuesday morning at the hotel (see earlier post.) Arrive at the club, she’s cold as ice, barely acknowledging me, flirting with another monger. Got to keep reminding myself, this is only fantasy, a two hour relationship, not love, what’s said/done in those two hours has no resemblance to what takes place when those two hours are over.

Quickly compose myself and start chatting it up with this cute little blonde Paraguayan (can’t recall her name.) We sit down in the back, watch the show, make out, she’s rubbing my crotch, getting me all excited. It’s around 2am now, we agree on leaving at 3am (recalling earlier posts which report that after 3am the girls don’t neeed to report back to work.) for my hotel for una hora media for 200AR.

THIS WAS A VERY BIG MISTAKE.

We’re there at 2am and she now knows she has a sure thing at 3am. Perhaps she can make more money since she now has a fall-back. She tells me to wait for her on the couch and she’ll be back. The next thing I know, she and two of her friends are flirting with these three Japanese businessmen. I had the feeling these guys were ready to shell out a hell of a lot more than 200AR.

All is not lost but my ego is pretty bruised at this point. Made a major rookie mistake. It’s now around 3:30 pm on a Thursday morning and the pickings are getting mighty slim. I walk around the neighborhood. Check out Newport. Nothing. Come back to Madaho’s. Start talking to another blonde babe from Brazil. She’s probably there for seconds cause I didn’t see her earlier in the night. The ratio is getting horrendous at this point. She won’t leave for less than 300AR!!!

After walking aimlessly around the club looking for ANYTHING to go home with, I finally get chatting with this Wynona Ryder look-alike. What the hell, Elina was a Meg Ryan look-alike. I guess, deep-down, I’m a Hollywood groupie! (In fact, the previous Friday, I saw Robert Duvall dancing in a small Tango Club in San Telmo – Defensa 1575, Pque Lezama.)

Wynona Ryder’s twin, while extremely pretty, was a bit stand-offish to the clientele. I was in the club for probably around 3 hours at this point, and never saw her approach any of the men. Once I got talking to her, she warmed up pretty nicely, and was in fact a great passionate kisser who really let herself loose (on the kissing front.) Turns out, she has 4 kids, husband died in a car accident recently (either that or in a motorcycle accident. Got her story mixed up a little with Dickhead’s Maria. See that posting in the new Dickhead’s Maria section.) Anyway, we agree on heading back to my place, TLN for 200AR. It sounds like a good deal, but it’s probably 4am by this point and TLN by some interpretation could be equivalent to dos horas.

To make a long story short, while she was a great and passionate kisser, her lovemaking skills left much to be desired. She very much enjoyed being on the receiving end of oral sex, but was a bit squeamish when giving. Put the preservativo on before I was barely hard again prior to going down. She also rode me (reverse cowboy) a little before I was ready.

To sum up, Wynona2 was a nice girl, but since she’s fairly new to the sex scene (other than with her ex-husband), I’d lay off her till she got a bit more experience. Don’t be seduced by her looks if you’re looking for great sex. I think because of the circumstances she found herself in, 4 kids, widowed, she turned to this profession to support her family but she’s really not into it at this point.

Remember, although one never knows a chica by her kisses, I could have avoided all this had I acted more wisely earlier in the night when there were more choices available. Please learn from my mistakes.

DfB

Hi DfB,

The girls can leave the club without returning after 3:30 am.

If you find yourself looking for action at 3-4 am, you best bet is to go to Cocodrilo 9Gallo 1311 (at Paraguay) (in Barrio Norte) 4963-7195). It's an after-hours club (really a disco) that stays open until 7 am. A lot of club girls (and club staff) go there after their clubs close, which means that from 4:30 to 5:00 am you see fresh faces start to walk in the door.

Thanks,

Jackson

[Jaimito Cartero]

TnH - Well pricing is always a topic of hot discussion. The "Don't ruin it for all of us" faction is always vocal. You don't go into a 5 star hotel and expect a room for a dollar. So, you don't go into Black and expect a 100 peso girl.

However, you need to know your limits. Lately everyone seems to think the "I pay 150 pesos" route is best for Hook, Catto and perhaps Madahos (Perhaps 200 for the latter). I always got at least 1 1/2 hours and usually 2 hours or all night for this price. Don't let the chica even mention a price.

If you save those 50 peso overpayments up, you can send a couple hundred to the soup kitchens that we're helping in Argentina!

[Dick for Brains]

Madahos experiences (cont'd.):

The following day (12/9), after the weekly AMA meeting at Jackson's apartment, about six of us scoured the clubs in Recoleta. After a fine steak dinner, we headed off to Newport for a few minutes, then to Affaire, and finally to Madaho’s. Jackson’s introduction allowed us free entrance both at Affaire and Madaho’s. Subsequent nights at Madaho’s did not require the one-drink prepay entrance.

Once inside the AMA gang got separated as each of us was pursuing his own pleasure.

My pleasure was in the form of a drop-dead gorgeous Meg Ryan-look-alike named Elina. She was a friend of Monica’s, the multi-lingual lass who I had the previous night. On this night, Monica was distant, perhaps sensing that most mongers prefer to taste all that BA has to offer. In any case, Monica introduced me to Elina at her table, then left us alone to chat.

Elina spoke some English, about the same level at which I speak Spanish. We thus conversed in alternating tongues, depending on whose other-language vocabulary was stronger for the conversation at hand. We had a good time, spoke for about an hour. Again, as mentioned in earlier posts, no hurry from the waiters to force the issue with a 35 peso chica drink. As always, I try to buy drinks only when I’m convinced that this girl is mine on this night. From what I learned from Monica on the previous night, if you buy a chica a drink and do not go out with them on that drink , the chica keeps her chit (worth I believe 5 pesos (maybe 10)). If on the other hand, the guy takes the chica out on that drink, the chit changes colors, the girl turns it in as an exit pass, and she earns her money from the guy directly, rather than from the kick-back on the drink. Again, I learned this from Monica. Any confirmation on this would be appreciated.

In any event after about an hour, Elina and I were holding hands, making out, when the subject of going back to my hotel was breeched. It was after 3am, a Tuesday night. I suggested she come back to my hotel for 2 hours for 150AR. After a couple of minutes, she asked to “go to the ladies room” where she consulted Monica. (I believe Monica is something of a mentor to Elina, having been in the business much longer.) She came back asking for 200AR. Hearing Jackson’s voice in my ear, I stuck to my guns, and shot myself in the foot. For Elena “went to the bathroom” again, found another suitor upon her return to the main room, and soon was nowhere to be found.

I would have to wait until my next visit to Madaho’s the following Monday to see Elina again. We sealed the agreement quickly (at 150AR), went back to my hotel in Palermo for the best sex I had on the trip, with the most beautiful girl I had ever been with. She was tender, enjoyed kissing and cuddling, provided BBBJ, DATY, 69, multiple positions, for an unhurried couple of hours.

We went to sleep together, she woke up a few hours later, left me her phone number and we kissed goodbye. What a delight.

One of the lessons I learned on this trip to Madaho’s is the need for flexibility w.r.t. pricing. On a slow Monday, with a good F/M ratio, 150AR may seal the deal. The previous Tuesday, at a time in the evening when 150AR was insufficient, I should have been flexible and paid the extra $50AR (<$17US.) How many times in your life do you get to have sex with a drop-dead gorgeous woman for under $80US (including the bar fine)??

Assess the market. Don’t walk in with a “reservation price” above which you will not go. Be flexible. Enjoy!!

[James D 2004]

Regarding price in BA, I would say that it's hard to beat the tourist traps. In holiday times on my way to Madahos I met guys hustling you into Blacks, Solid Gold and Madahos itself. God knows how many tourists there are. How many tourists knows the existence of WSG? And how many knows WSG but manage to get sufficient info without being a hardcore researcher? I would say don't blame them for inflating the price. Time and time again I was confronted with the situation of extra 50 to 100 peso. What am I going to do except for keeping everybody happy while promising myself not to do that for the next negotiation? What's the problem of inflating the price if one's trip is just a stopover, a few days or a week? If you knows that you are overpaying, loser's logic says that it's not only you who is hurt, so it hurts less.

For the websites that list prices, all ask for 100 USD per hour. They are fairly consistence if you call up any escort in English. It's pretty natural for the club girls to ask for more than 300 peso. I experimented to pay up hoping that they will stay longer and provide better service, in return I'll call them again. But no, the club girls seemed to have a competition to clock in the most dollar per hour. I did book a gorgeous Internet girl for 100 peso for completo, but she flaked on me. That made me doubt about the power of 100 peso and what crap would I get if she actually turn up. For Indonesian street hawkers, whatever they sell the basic technique is to counter offer a fraction of the asking price, to arrive at half the asking price finally. Even if you do this in Argentina you are still overpaying for some 50 peso. Too much for me to handle as I thought Indonesia was my worst bargaining experience.

So at first I think you have to speak Spanish without accent, or knows someone who does, or belong to some secret societies. Since average tourists are none of the above, don't blame them.

As for the WSG reports, some reporters do everything from street girls to the top tier ones. All girls in the reports are worth reporting and the reporters are quite incapable or reluctance to describe the differences in short communications. So you don't have a clue of the power of 100 pesos. On the other hand, some reporters are so superior that I don't think I will never come close as a practical tourist. So I give up when the going gets tough.

Apartments can be from 40 to 100 peso an hour. That's a huge difference and all are worth reporting. I have been to one or two that asked for 100 per hour. After I saw the girls I was very happy to pay whatever the club girls or Internet girls ask for. However, I went to another one that asked for the same. After I saw the girls I wasn't willing to pay any more for 100 peso per hour for whatever girl.

It's very good for someone authoritative to say that don't pay how much for what girls. But a gorgeous club girl asking for 150 peso was just not available. I would be very willing to pay for any seasonal adjustments.

[Dick for Brains]

[Madaho's]

During my two week trip to BA, Madaho's was the boliche I most frequented. There is a tremendous variety of women, there is no pre-one-drink requirement entry fee (once they get to know you), they allow you to talk to the women pretty much for as long as you want without having to buy any chica drinks, and the women are beautiful.

The one message that came through loud and clear from my visits to Madaho's is the tremendous variation there is in the market throughout the night and across nights. Early in the week like Mondays and Tuesdays, the women were much more willing to negotiate longer visits (>2 hours) for $150AR than they were later in the week. On the other hand, on a Thursday or Friday night, I found it virtually impossible to get out of there for less than $200AR and some would not leave for less than $300AR when the M/F ratio turned too much in favor of the ladies later in the night.

Keep in mind when maintaining your reservation price, that one really needs to be aware of the current market conditions or you can find yourself in the wee hours of a Friday morning with only the least eligible women to negotiate with.

My first visit to Madaho's took place on the night of my entry to BA (12/9/2003). After awakening around midnight after an early evening nap, and heading out (without my WSG cut-and-paste cheat sheet) once again at 2am after a false start with a TV SW in my Palermo neighborhood, I hailed a taxi and asked the driver to take me to a good but not overly expensive boliche in Recoleta. Ten minutes later, we arrived at Madaho's.

From what I later learned, it was a really slow night at Madaho's. It was a Monday and a Christian holiday that the country observes (12/9/2003 - I forget which one.) After ordering my drink with the 25 peso one-drink pre paid entry fee (the only time on the trip that I was required to pay for entry) I sat around for about an hour trying to take in all that was around me.

The girl that finally caught my attention was Monica – a multilingual (speaks Spanish, English, German, Italian and perhaps others) slightly older (around 36) brunette (later in the week she was more of a blonde) with a good sense of humor and a good conversationalist. After talking for about an hour we settled on $150AR for 2 hours in a hotel near Madahos. Monica convinced me that I lived “too far away” and that we needed to go to a nearby hotel. I believe she got a cut of the $30AR 2 hour hotel rate, and being a newbie on my first night in town, I succumbed. She was the only Madaho girl who required this and had I not been on my first visit, would have insisted on going tom y hotel. Monica also told me that she was going to return to Madaho’s after the two hours and it would be much better if she didn’t take the round trip taxi to Palermo.

Once we got through the negotiating and into the nearby hotel, Monica was a great lover. She took her time with long tender kissing and caressing before going for the Johnson. Deep down, I’m not a slam-bam kind of man, and much prefer women who take the time before going for the hard core stuff. Monica was the perfect entrée for me into the BA scene. After about 30 minutes of strictly DFK and caressing, she proceeded with a nice slow BBBJ which flowed nicely into 69 and then con-preservativo went into various positions. She was just great!

Leaving the hotel after some more caressing, it was daylight outside. Monica walked me part way back towards Madahos, and then veered to the right. Clearly she was not heading back to the club. Despite what she said about returning to Madaho’s and thus not wanting to head to my hotel in Palermo, it was clear she was heading home and thus the story was just a cover for her to make a slight payback on my hotel cost.

The lesson to be learned from this is that despite how the fantasy may appear for a couple of hours, one must always keep in mind that you are paying for a fantasy. A two hour relationship. Not a girlfriend. The standards are different. Things are said which only make sense at the moment. One can not and one should not trust what is said during the two hours for it really has no lasting consequences. She is there for one thing – to make a living. You’re there for one thing – to get your rocks off. Don’t fall for the illusion and expect a level of honesty that one expects in one’s normal life. Judge these women for what they do in the bedroom. By these standards, Monica was just great.

Future reports coming on my later visits to Madaho’s.

DfB

[Dick for Brains]

I recently returned from a great two week holiday in Beunos Aires and am in the process of posting some reports. I want to thank all previous posts for providing invaluable information to me regarding apartments, Boliches, Maria, hotels, restaurants, transportation, etc. This site is a veritable gold mine of information and as I have benefited from the knowledge/experiences of others, so I would like to contribute to the experiences of future mongers to the land of milk and honey.

It was great to meet up with Jackson at his apartment a couple of Tuesdays ago (12/09/2003) at the weekly AMA meeting. It was fun to put a face to some of the regular posters of this thread and to tour some of the Recoleta clubs with fellow mongers.

I am organizing my posts thematically, rather than chronologically. I think this is a more useful way to provide information to those who are new to the BA scene. I have already posted regarding my hotel in Palermo in which one other monger from the 12/9/03 AMA meeting was also staying, my experiences with Myra and my session with Dickhead's Maria (and I believe that I was the post that put Jackson over the top to create the new Maria thread.) In the future, I plan on posting regarding my many trips to Modahos(sp?), my visits to some of the other Boliches, my one appointment Roxanna set up with Patricia from Jackson's private site, my trips to Santa Fe 1707, and my visit to Iguazu.

I'll keep you posted.

DfB

[Bandy]

Jackson,

I don't want to be BLACK-listed, but I did pay @ AR 400 last year for two 12 hour TLN encounters with Jovana from BLACK. I never regretted it for a second. However, just to be on the same page with you, I did enjoy an equally, if not more, out of the world TLN encounter with Rafeila from Cattos last summer. And it cost me only AR 200. (In fairness to Uncle Otto, Rafeila used to work in Black). I just posted her picture under the "Photo Gallery" section.

As you correctly pointed out, everyone should visit Black at least once. Whether or not to partake in the take-out, that's solely depend on the individual.

Have a fun-filled Christmas and a happy and healthy New Year everybody.

Bandy