Renting Apartments - Long Term Rentals (2 years or more)

[Dosruedas]

Fellow AP users and readers... I am looking for a property manager to manage a departamento near to Plaza Italia... The property has rented well for the last two years on Airbnb.. But now the long term market interests me more. Is there an honest property manager in BA...? Lordy... I hope so... Any help is apprecicated.

[FrankAndStein]

I had a 1 year lease on a very nice apt in palermo. After about 9 months the power was cut off. Turns out the landlord had never arranged with edenor to install the meter in the building when it was new. Landlord's agent tells me it is my responsibility to have the new meter installed. WTF! Nice of him to tell me that after the lease is signed and the power gets cut off.

Edenor tells me I need all kinds of documents and an electrician's report, which the landlord only can provide, and he refuses to do so, saying edenor doesn't need all that.

After 2 weeks without power and no way to resolve it I withold my rent, and have regular screaming matches with the landlord's agent, who still refuses to give me the papers edenor demands.

I manage to steal power by running an extension cord out the window to run the basic necessities.

Of course I move out when the lease is up. Landlord's agent chases me down and demands not only rent for last 3 months but some made up amount for electricity I must have used but didn t pay for (nor did the landlord). Also is 'shocked' I didn't tell them I was going to move out. Fucking hilarious.

As I owned a business at that time I grudgingly paid the rent but not the supposed power bill of course. I know enough about argentine courts to know you can get fucked over very easily.

Agent then asks me if she can help me find a new apt. If you can fucking believe that. I called her every obscenity in the book, and a few in english for good measure. She genuinely seemed surprised I was not happy with her service.

[DavieW]

And you can be sure, that no matter how good a condition the house is in when you leave it, you will lose your deposit. You might as well just consider any deposit money, dead money.

Also the same here in Buenos Aires.

I've left 2 short-term rentals and 1 long-term and had my deposits returned in full every time with no questions asked.

This may be the one area where I've actually been lucky here in BsAs!

I've also never had an issue getting repairs agreed by landlords. Getting a decent tradesman who can actually do the repairs, when/if he actually turns up is another matter, but not the landlord's fault. My current landlord is brilliant and calls me every couple of months just to ask if there's anything I need sorting out.



e2a: and at the current exchange rate, my 83sqm loft is quite the steal at USD340/month!

[Tres3]

Regarding repairs my experience in both my apartments was different. The leases I signed said that I didn't have to pay for physical plant stuff but only damage. In one apartment the stove fucked up and the landlord sent the portero and it didn't cost me anything.

In the second the water heater went out and the building had no portero. I got the portero at a friends building to replace it and I didn't pay anything.

This isn't me saying that long term renting in BsAs is fun, it's a pain in the fucking ass both of the above repair took a shitload of time to get done with the landlord bitching the whole time. If I was a rich guy landlords here would be the thing that would probably make me buy a place, but paying for repairs have never been an issue.

Mis dos, nada mas.

DR.

DR's and other mongers' experience with Argentine landlords is the primary reason that I try to always rent from a gringo. I think that there is something in the Latin American DNA that says "screw the renter" because I have experienced the same treatment in other Latin American countries.

Tres3.

[Daddy Rulz]

You confirmed for AR mongers that these miserable practices exist in BA.

Regarding repairs my experience in both my apartments was different. The leases I signed said that I didn't have to pay for physical plant stuff but only damage. In one apartment the stove fucked up and the landlord sent the portero and it didn't cost me anything.

In the second the water heater went out and the building had no portero. I got the portero at a friends building to replace it and I didn't pay anything.

This isn't me saying that long term renting in BsAs is fun, it's a pain in the fucking ass both of the above repair took a shitload of time to get done with the landlord bitching the whole time. If I was a rich guy landlords here would be the thing that would probably make me buy a place, but paying for repairs have never been an issue.

Mis dos, nada mas.

DR.

[Jackson]

I'm not sure how a report on renting houses in the Dominician Republic has any connection with the topic of this thread, which is "Latest thoughts on apts / condos prices in BA", but let's see if I can get the thread back on topic.

I just back from La Vega. I really liked La Vega, and ended up spending a couple of extra days there looking at houses to rent. Even looking at renting here can be extremely humorous, especially if you're a North American dealing with Dominican owners. Based on my experience, Dominican owners want you to rent the property, but they also want you to maintain it. Furthermore, if anything goes wrong, you're responsible for having it fixed. Even beyond that, you're liable for anything that happens that is related to the property.

As an example I just got through looking at a very nice Dominican home, in a nice neighborhood, and a property I would love to rent. However, I asked some very specific questions. The electrical panel box was opened and clearly there was some repair work that was being done. I asked if there was problem with the panel box while I was renting, and for example, there was a fire in the pane box. What if everything associated with the electrical system in the house had to be replaced? The answer was, of course, I would be responsible, because I was living there when it happened.

What if someone broke into the house, and broke windows, and perhaps did other damage to the house? The answer was, of course, I would be responsible, because I was living there when it happened.

What if the room was damaged, and there was water damage to the house? Would I be responsible for repairing it? Would I be responsible for the furniture and other items I would have to buy to furnish the house? The answer was, of course, I would be responsible, because I was living there when it happened.

To the owner, this was just common sense. To me, it was laughable. I rent the house, I have to maintain the house, and I also have all the liability of ownership.

It's exactly the same here in Buenos Aires.

And you can be sure, that no matter how good a condition the house is in when you leave it, you will lose your deposit. You might as well just consider any deposit money, dead money.

Also the same here in Buenos Aires.

[TejanoLibre]

I recently paid Prudential Insurance for a (3) year commercial guarantee.

This Argentine company sells these all of the time.

Cost is equal to (1) month of the year's rent.

Times (3) in this case.

It was not cheap and who knows if it will hold water but my landlord asks for (2) separate guarantees on all of his properties!

It is the Retired Argentine Airforce Personnel's Retirement Fund?

F. O. C. M. F. A (I think?)

Water-tight contracts. Like a shark's ass!

A. F. I. P knows everything. Believe me!

Funny thing is that they only own bars and restaurants!

We shall soon see if their little guarantee is bull-shit or not! (Prudential has nothing to do with the American company with the equal sounding name.)

I have not been able to pay my masters in numerous months due to being shut-down and all of the other horse shit!

Partners are needed now! Offering 49% or more to as as many people as possible! Just Joking!

As The Stomach Turns.

[El Queso]

At first blush, this type of guaranty appears to be a little expensive. Also, it exposes the owner to the actual amount he is being paid monthly. In my time here, I have not met a single person who doesn't cheat when it comes to anything involving financial transactions. I'm sure someone in the AFIP (similar to the IRS) office will probably look at these guarantees because it will show the actual rental amount being received by the owner.

Yeah, I would think that alone would be a reason for many of the owners to ignore this option.

I hadn't thought of it before, but I wonder if that has something to do with why the owners rarely accept seguro de caucions, which have been around since the '60s. Maybe the owners feel it exposes them too much to the AFIP's prying eyes?

[Jaggar]

Jaggar,

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Are you thinking that a bunch of getting together in some sort of a bloc (like an S. A. Or something) would give a leverage to bring down the price of the seguro de caucion or something?

BTW - careful thinking about bulk purchases here. They are pretty non-existent with most transactions that I'm aware of. Maybe commercially they are more popular, but as an example, you can't go to a store here and buy a six pack of Coke for less than the cost of six individual cans, and that's about the most simple example of bulk purchasing I know.

Bulk purchasing doesn't seem to apply in retail, maybe it will in commercial venues?

I am not sure how scale works here but would have assumed that it was an indiosyncratic (individual) thing from bank to bank. Nevertheless your input well appreciated.

Jaggar

[Member #3320]

Facundo,

Thats a great addition to my report.

Bravo! Thanks a lot. Its really helpful.

Captain, here are the basic details of the "Garantías Bancarias" from the article you mentioned:

1. Only one bank, El Banco Supervielle, will start offering this type of guaranty beginning next month.

2. It will guaranty to pay the monthly rental from AR$500 – 5000.

3. It will charge a 9% fee (the renter pays 6% and the owner 3%) on the two year total rental amount.

4. The monthly rental will be paid to the bank and the bank in turn will credit the bank account of the apartment or house owner.

5. If the renter doesn't pay, the bank will pay the monthly rental.

At first blush, this type of guaranty appears to be a little expensive. Also, it exposes the owner to the actual amount he is being paid monthly. In my time here, I have not met a single person who doesn't cheat when it comes to anything involving financial transactions. I'm sure someone in the AFIP (similar to the IRS) office will probably look at these guarantees because it will show the actual rental amount being received by the owner.

By the way, if an apartment owner ever tries to screw you on a deposit or whatever, just threaten him with the following words. "I am going to the AFIP office and file a complaint because I know how much I've been paying you monthly and I know you don't report all of it. In addition, I know you've never reported the full transactions of your rental income." Within minutes I received my full deposit back.

[Facundo]

I have heard about the fact that to get a 2 year lease here, you need a "Guarantor". The "Guarantor" is basically a very close friend or a relative who attaches his / her property (like a "lien") to the 2 year lease so that in case you fail to pay the rent, the property attached as "lien' pays up the rent.

Now, because of this aspect, its become very difficult for normal people to rent apartments in Argentina on long leases. The laws are such that its quiet tough to oust people from the house on a long lease, even if the rent is not paid.

Now, I was in a deep discussion with a very educated local person yesterday over coffee. The person informed me that a new bill has been passed in the Argentine parliment in last 1 week or so. The bill is regarding the provision of "guarantor". It gives a new option for "Guarantor" to the existing one. Now, one will be able to buy something like Insurance policy from the bank. This insurance policy, one would be paying monthly instalments and in case a mishap happens, you are unable to pay the rent, the insurance will pay up the rent! The insurance premiums will probably on the high side but thats what it is going to be.

Interestingly, I believe that you don't even need a bank account to avail this facility.

Now, before all you mongers start getting mad at me and say that its bullshit. Their is a apparently a detailed newspaper report on this in castellano, which I would be attaching on this thread for you to view with your own eyes and diagnose yourselves.

If this happens, it would really be a great help and make it a lot easier to take long term lease like I am planning to do.

Enjoy and Live in BA!

Captain, here are the basic details of the "Garantías Bancarias" from the article you mentioned:

1. Only one bank, El Banco Supervielle, will start offering this type of guaranty beginning next month.

2. It will guaranty to pay the monthly rental from AR$500 – 5000.

3. It will charge a 9% fee (the renter pays 6% and the owner 3%) on the two year total rental amount.

4. The monthly rental will be paid to the bank and the bank in turn will credit the bank account of the apartment or house owner.

5. If the renter doesn't pay, the bank will pay the monthly rental.

At first blush, this type of guaranty appears to be a little expensive. Also, it exposes the owner to the actual amount he is being paid monthly. In my time here, I have not met a single person who doesn't cheat when it comes to anything involving financial transactions. I'm sure someone in the AFIP (similar to the IRS) office will probably look at these guarantees because it will show the actual rental amount being received by the owner.

By the way, if an apartment owner ever tries to screw you on a deposit or whatever, just threaten him with the following words. "I am going to the AFIP office and file a complaint because I know how much I've been paying you monthly and I know you don't report all of it. In addition, I know you've never reported the full transactions of your rental income." Within minutes I received my full deposit back.

[El Queso]

Jaggar,

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Are you thinking that a bunch of getting together in some sort of a bloc (like an S. A. Or something) would give a leverage to bring down the price of the seguro de caucion or something?

BTW - careful thinking about bulk purchases here. They are pretty non-existent with most transactions that I'm aware of. Maybe commercially they are more popular, but as an example, you can't go to a store here and buy a six pack of Coke for less than the cost of six individual cans, and that's about the most simple example of bulk purchasing I know.

Bulk purchasing doesn't seem to apply in retail, maybe it will in commercial venues?

[Jaggar]

Thanks Captain for this excellent and well-sourced post. I would appreciate hearing from the board a suggested model, whereby 5 or more mongers collectively approach an open minded bank and jointly purchase such "Guantor-Alternative" insurance for their own apartments exercising the scale economic advantage of 5 or more ex pat types. All to buy down the individual insurance cost basis for such.

Input well appreciated.

Cheers,

Jaggar

[Daddy Rulz]

I agree Daddy. I'm a Texan as well (though living in BsAs)

I heard someone down here recently who was from California tell me that laws there are favoring the renters now and it is more difficult to get freeloaders out of the houses. I'm hoping it doesn't spread.

California has been like that forever hence the need for super high deposits and other difficulties in renting an apartment.

Give the landlord protection in evicting boludos and it turns every rental market into a buyers market. When Austin was badly overbuilt before every other person from California moved there almost all apartments gave away cable, elec, water, home appliances, you name it, anything to entice occupancy.

But again you will never see this in Argentina. It's like decriminalizing weed, the majority understand that it doesn't cause reefer madness and doesn't need to be controlled anymore than booze but for the most part it's suicide for a politician to introduce legislation to change it.

Whoever did it there would immediately be assailed as the politico that wants to throw your grandmother out into the street. Which wouldn't be that bad because if she was fat Flexible Horn would take her in for a day or two.

[El Queso]

I agree Daddy. I'm a Texan as well (though living in BsAs).

I heard someone down here recently who was from California tell me that laws there are favoring the renters now and it is more difficult to get freeloaders out of the houses. I'm hoping it doesn't spread.